In this conversation, Sarah Wheeler and Mark discuss the intricate relationship between deaf culture, interpreting, and emotional intelligence. They explore the importance of building trust and understanding in communication, the challenges faced by interpreters, and the evolving dynamics of deaf culture in the context of technology and education. The discussion emphasizes the need for emotional intelligence in both interpreting and parenting, highlighting the impact of relationships and communication on identity and community.

takeaways

• Building relationships is crucial for effective communication.
• Emotional intelligence plays a significant role in interpreting.
• Trust is essential for teaching and learning.
• Interpreters must navigate their own emotions while working.
• Cultural dynamics influence communication styles.
• Technology impacts the deaf community in various ways.
• Self-care is vital for interpreters to avoid burnout.
• Understanding triggers can enhance emotional intelligence.
• The deaf community is evolving with more representation.
• Education systems need to incorporate emotional intelligence training.

titles

• Bridging Worlds: The Role of Interpreters in Deaf Culture
• Emotional Intelligence: The Heart of Effective Communication

Sound Bites

• "Everyone leaves a mark."
• "You live it twice when you journal."
• "The language is central to the culture."

Chapters

00:00

Introduction and Connection

02:52

Understanding the Role of Interpreters

05:42

The Importance of Emotional Intelligence in Interpreting

08:21

Cultural Insights and Personal Experiences

11:17

Navigating the Deaf Community and Family Dynamics

14:02

The Evolution of Deaf Education and Sign Language

16:46

The Art of Interpretation and Performance

19:32

Emotional Intelligence in Practice

22:13

Reflective Practices for Interpreters

24:59

Managing Triggers and Emotional Responses

27:57

Burnout and Emotional Labor in Interpreting

32:29

The Importance of Self-Care for Interpreters

37:11

Navigating Emotional Intelligence in Interpretation

42:06

The Role of Teamwork in Interpretation

44:56

Cultural Norms in the Deaf Community

51:25

The Impact of Technology on Deaf Culture

specialedrising.com

https://www.buildingbridges.global/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-wheeler-interpreteredu/

https://www.gofundme.com/f/join-rays-respite-care-mission

Can you hear me okay? Yeah, I can hear you fine. Yeah, yeah, I can, yeah. Thanks so much, hey.

I can hear you fine, can you hear me okay? Hi, hi,

welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me on. like, this just, I know our paths have kind of gone all sorts of different ways, but I'm so glad we had the opportunity to do this today. So that's great. Yeah.

my gosh,

absolutely. I know we've been looking for this for about a year now. I know I've been trying to catch you on for that long. You're a very busy person with your presentations and your books and all your work. It's amazing. I can't wait to share it with people, you know, and to learn more about you.

Yeah, you're

doing amazing things too. So hats off to you and everything that you're doing and bringing people together, I think is the other side of this equation. So I could go on and on about all the work you're doing, but yeah, thank you for all the work you're doing too.

Oh my goodness,

thank you. I appreciate that. It's so funny because it doesn't always feel like it's much work doing this, but I tell you the impact has been something that I didn't expect and even personal impact. mean, I'm meeting people like you. I'm meeting amazing people out there doing incredible work and it's just enriched my life and I'm making all these new friends too all over the place, which is great on top of it, you know.

That's awesome. Well, there's not a lot of humanity right in the world right now. We're all kind of in our bubbles doing our own things. So like that I can imagine. I think that's such like a big point to bring up is that you making the effort to learn about other people is like also building the relationships. Like that's, that's, that's phenomenal. Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah,

thanks. Yeah, no, I think that's really important. And I, you know, in reading more about you and your, your focus on humanity and, being able to make mistakes and learning and all that kind of stuff. And, know, we're all human. So as soon as I see somebody mentioned human, I'm immediately like, I'm sold. You know, I'm a man, you know, because it's like, you know, because that's really what we're all about. Excuse me. I mean, it doesn't matter what education we have, where we are, status. We're all just the same, you know, come from the same thing.

it

And so, you we need to understand that if we don't reach across to touch that person's humanity and find out about that person and see the value in each other, you know, then what's the point, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. I love that.

Thank you for the questions, by the way. That was great. That was really helpful.

⁓

well, my pleasure. You know, they were based off your work. So it's really, I just want to find out more about you, but I really feel like I want to ask you, you know, about your background, all that stuff, but I'm, excited to talk to you today because, know, you're in the world I was in for 30 years, you know? And so there, there's a lot we could talk about beyond what you're doing just as, you know, just chat about, you know, experiences and things like that. So, you know, maybe I'm sure it'll weave in and out during this conversation, but.

Yeah, yeah.

on.

Whatever we don't get to, there's always another time, as far as I'm concerned. So, yeah, so thanks for making the time today. I really appreciate it. It means a lot. This is a day I've been looking forward to for a long time because I want people to understand the world of deafness, the culture, and I also want to understand the perspective of an interpreter. Where are you coming from? Because it's not an easy position to be in and...

That

Yeah, yeah.

you come from this particular place of emotional intelligence that I really want to learn more about because it's not something that I had thought about. To me, it was always as an interpreter, you were like, you you were the conduit between two people and the communication being right. And that's that's the bottom line. But, you know, you also are a human being and you're there and you're present and how you handle the information that's being passed along back and forth. It's got to be impactful. So. You know, these.

Yeah. Yeah. Everyone leaves

a mark. You know, it's like when you're talking about you, you're connecting all these people on your being, you know, you're curious and you want to build these relationships. I think for interpreters, it's like you're in the middle of all these worlds, everything going on around you and you're, you're, you're there, you're present and you have to be, and you have to be emotionally invested, but you're also not. And so there's this like weird dimension where you kind of are on the periphery of people's lives and you kind of see so much going on. So it is a weird space to be in. It's.

Yeah.

It is because

I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

Yeah, no, I was going to say

it's very, it's humbling. It's very, it's, know, yeah, but it's,

I could see that.

Yeah, because I feel like it's a place where, I'm sorry, I just want to turn my focus.

Do not disturb, okay. I feel like it's a place where you sort of almost have to step outside yourself too to be able to be neutral in the encounter, but you're a human being, you know? And so I would think that's more challenging than I ever gave it a thought to, you know? I mean, I've done some interpreting, I'm not an interpreter, but you you get pushed in situations where you're the guy who knows sign language, so you end up interpreting, so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Can you do this? Yeah.

Yeah, so I've done it many times in my life, but I never came from a place of an educated interpreter with that kind of background and knowledge walking into it.

Yeah, but I would say it's probably, I mean, it's very similar. You you kind of, it's, think humbling because you're like, this is someone's life. You know, this is, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, you're, you're, really witnessing to, and then you realize how much trust they have in you and how much in the whole process it's,

Yeah, so there's a lot. even, you know, as not as a professional interpreter, but just having that little, you know, those kind of slight glimpses of that, it's, you you think about how important communication is and how important all these dynamics that go into communication are and things that we overlook. You know, it's like every day is like, OK, this is just happening. But then if you like think about human connection on a smaller level, there's all these little things that are happening day to day that actually shape not just what we think.

overtly what we see on the outside, but all our inner workings, know, how we feel about ourselves, how we move in this world, how our identity is, how we navigate these different experiences with other people. And so those, think those things are the things that I started getting really interested in. So anyway, I'm so glad to geek out with this, because this is where it's like the things you can't see. You can't really. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Right, I

we could talk about what interpreting is, but it's like you could read that in a book or online, know, and so let's get inside it, you know, and find out what's really ticking inside. And also I would think too, and then we'll get to the format of like you giving your background, but the thing too is that you, would imagine as I am being influenced and learning and meeting all these new people, it's the same thing would happen as an interpreter because your life is enriched, because you're thrown into situations that, you know, conversations you would never naturally

Yeah.

a part of, you know. So I think they'd be life-changing, absolutely. So all right, let's go back to the beginning a little bit, Sarah, and let's tell people a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today and the things you focus on.

Yeah, 100%.

Okay, all right, sounds good. So yeah, I know we got, I'm thrilled to be here today, first of all, Mark. This is like your mission, I think, of ensuring that all parents are involved and engaged and not left behind, I think is one that from a interpreter level, I think is really important. You know, seeing the deaf community get impacted from an emotional intelligence level, knowing that.

relationships, especially those beginning relationships really are the core of a person's identity and how they then navigate in the world. But also from a family.

I have deaf parents and also seeing the lack of communication, not by fault, but just because during that time that's what kind of was out there is that you don't sign, you have to assimilate. So I think those things you could really see that it's a strong family, parents that feel okay with however the dynamics are, but give their all and really love and kind of center that love and center communication.

Mm-hmm.

I think really can build not only a strong family for that family, but the impact for generations to come is huge. And so I appreciate the work you do. I think it's so important. I really do.

Thanks.

As I have that come back to me, thank you.

I do, I do.

Yeah, this is this is core and I think it's a part of my work that I don't do, but it's core. ⁓ But I think when people think of interpreting, people think of the technical aspects and they think of the signs, they think of grammar, they think of accuracy. And I worked as an interpreter educator for a while. I came from a family that was deaf. I worked as an interpreter, an interpreter educator. And when I was in the field,

Mm.

interpreting, also teaching, what I noticed is that the moments that really meant something were the moments that I brought my whole self. And the moments that really meant something was when I saw people really connect on a personal level. And it wasn't about the right signs or the right handshapes. It was about this emotional connection that they had. And I realized right there where, I mean, even sitting in rooms where there's medical appointments and it becomes a family crisis, you know, and you're

You're in an IEP meeting and then it turns into this battleground and you're trying to figure out where that breakdown in communication happened. You know, was it this family not feeling comfortable and not feeling that they were aligned? it people discounting because English, right, wasn't their first language? Is it perceptions? Is it the way body language is when you first walk into a room? And is it the interpreter's body language? it, you know, who, where in this whole breakdown is it happening? And I think in these moments,

It was reading emotions. mean, I understanding these cultural contexts that came into play for me was a big thing. So when I was teaching, that's when I said, yeah, I'm going to go back. I'm going to get another degree in psychology, which, you know, I was so fascinated with this intersection that just had not been explored before. And here we are. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, I really haven't heard anybody ever really speak from this perspective, the emotional intelligence connected to interpreting. You know, when you speak about that place of connecting to the emotionality of your student, your client, whoever it is, and that's how...

That was my, that was the pull for me in working as a teacher. That was the part that always gave me the most reward. You know, I've always said, it sounds probably crazy, but I never liked teaching the academics. I had, you know, I did it it was fine. You know, I was able to do it, but it was never the thing that wasn't the reason I was there. The reason I was there was to connect with the human beings and try to help these kids become the best human beings they could be and touch the things that they were able to.

Yeah.

you know, their natural abilities, you know, to be able to kind of bring out. So I think that's, you know, I hear you on that level very clearly, you know, it's really important. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Yeah.

It is. Yeah. No,

I love that. I love that. It's a great and you can't teach anyone who, doesn't trust you, right? Doesn't want to be there. Who's scared? Who feels right? So like that, it all goes into play. Like once we feel safe enough to show up as who we are, then we can do the things that we need to do. And this happens in all contexts. So I'm glad you brought that up because teaching is one, but

across the board, a new job, an interview, a medical, any of this is like, it needs to have an environment where you feel like you're just, you're okay.

Yeah, there needs to be a buy-in. It's like, trust you, so now I can buy into what you're trying to pass along to me and make the effort. And knowing that you care and you know that when I fail, you're still going to be there. That's, I think, really critical. So you're a coda, right? You want to just explain what a coda is to people who don't know?

Exactly. ⁓

Yeah, yeah,

it's a child of deaf adults. So I think for me, my earliest memories, wasn't, know, the common questions people ask is like, how was it? You know, was it different? You know, and for me, it wasn't anything different. It was just what it was. So it wasn't really about language per se. Like that wasn't even something that was a focus in my family. The focus was,

Mm-hmm.

you know, kind of being in between these two worlds. And for me, it was always about bridging them, always about, you know, at the dinner table, we had, you know, like, let's say my grandparents who didn't sign, and then, you know, my parents who did. And so it's always about there's these two cultures, two languages, two worlds, that's always intersecting, whether it's clashing or whether it's getting together and actually building something even stronger, you know, out of the differences.

Right.

is up to the families,

which, you know, obviously is the work that you're doing. But I think I was always looking at these emotions and what was going on in the room and reading it before I could even explain that. So. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it was a natural thing for you because you were being impacted, you aware.

Because

those things could, they could succeed or fail very easily in both directions because you could just shut down and say, okay, well, I'm never going to try, you know, plenty of families of students that I had didn't know sign language when sign language was the thing, you know, the, for the audience, you know, deaf education has gone through a lot of, a lot of changes through the years from philosophies. And in the nineties, the bye bye, bilingual, bi-cultural philosophy was the one that we were using at my school. And so.

Wow.

it was just ASL. Voice was dropped, you didn't speak in the school, you know, privately, but in the hallways generally, whatever it was, anything public, you signed because that was the culture, that was the country you were in in a sense, you know? And right, so there was the respect for that, but then it kind of changed with cochlear implants and things, and sign language started to become a little bit more of a...

Right.

I don't know, there was a lot of judgment about sign, there's always a lot of judgment about sign language, whether it's replacing, if it's replacing English and a child's chance to be able to speak and all those types of things. And very frustrating for me because I was coming from a place very supportive of ASL as like, if a child can be reached through ASL, then they can learn English as their next language. It doesn't have to be the first language, right? So I mean, I have to be careful here.

Yeah.

No, I'm proof of that, right? Like I, my first thing, ASL, right? So that's, mean, it's just proof. It's not like, it's not all or nothing. And I think that's what the, you know, it's kind of the fear out there and a lot of, parents don't know. They, and they probably never met a deaf person. it's, you know, this, but yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah. I

feel like, you know,

some of the parents of children when the philosophy changed and it was more like for preschool and stuff where they didn't have sign language at all. You weren't allowed to sign in of the kids. Parents were actually wondering why they weren't being exposed because you take that cochlear implant off and you're profoundly deaf. So why would you not? And also you're being the culture, your experience with the culture is being taken away from you. And it's a very, very rich culture. when you said, experience growing up with deaf parents didn't feel that different. And it's because your parents

yeah.

parents are people. You know, they just communicate in a different way. So, yeah. So it's going to be the same kind of trials and tribulations and wonderful things that experience. It's just a different way of communicating. I've always felt badly for the people who are kind of caught in between in the hard of hearing realm when in the experience, my experience in ASL, when that was the thing and that wasn't their first language, you know, and so they kind of felt like they were there. Are they not accepted? And the deaf

Ha!

people who were capital D deaf rejected people who weren't capital D deaf. So there was the in fighting kind of whatever you wanna call it that existed too. But I feel like not knowing what world to go in is, it's tragic for these people.

Yeah.

That's it. Yeah.

And the language too, as an interpreter, we'll get back into interpreting now. As an interpreter, some of the confusion you talk about, I would imagine comes with what sign language are you using? Because some people know like more of like the pure ASL and some people know more of an English sign, which is not real sign language as we know American sign language is the language. And so as an interpreter, how do you come about?

knowing what's the best approach to communicating with an individual in a moment, know, you haven't had a chance to really know them very well.

Yeah, mean, you you always want to have the pre-conference with them if you can. So it's always, I mean, it just makes for such a better outcome if you've actually got to meet the deaf person or the hearing people even, and just kind of get a feel for how their speaking style is, their personality. Just kind of, you know, that way you can come across when you interpret it, but also you can sign and you can speak in the ways that kind of match.

So you, and just like we would do, think with anybody, you you meet somebody and you kind of understand their cadence and you can kind of, you know, catch their rhythm. I think for, not speaking for deaf people, and so I think this is definitely a question to pose, but I think from what I've observed, a lot of deaf people will almost code switch for different situations. So they're in a, let's say a business situation, they would probably use a lot more.

you

fingerspelling or more English mouthing because they want to make sure that that exact terminology is coming through with the interpreter. So they're almost like helping the interpreter versus if they were with their deaf friends, they probably would not. And so it's really, I think, almost context specific. And I think this would happen with anybody. So I don't think it would only be deaf in hearing. think depending on who you're around and, you know, what context, what setting, what you've been exposed to, language levels, X, Y, Z.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

All of this comes into play when you're choosing how to navigate and use language. But again, I think there's now a movement towards, you know, this idea that there's so many modalities to communication and it's not just language in itself, but there's also body language which comes into communication. There's also this. So the way that we communicate, I think, is just not a one size fits all. And so that's, yes, that is a big thing in the deaf community.

interpreting community, but I think people are actually starting to try to move away from that as better than or less than, but just these are the multiple ways that we all communicate. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Right.

Mm-hmm.

that's great. That's great. Yeah, well, being in tune with each other, right? So, and like you said, that's doing your job,

the pre-interview, you know, getting the information, reading someone's speech before you go into it, having a better idea of who they're coming, who they are and where they're coming from. ⁓ Let's talk about a little bit.

I'm

I still want to get a little bit more background about your interpreting experience and how you got started. And then I want to dive into the emotional intelligence component and how it fits into interpreting. So you've done interpreting across the board, and you've done theater interpreting, I understand, as well. Where did you do that?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I love it. ⁓

I've been doing it. I've been doing it the local theater. yeah, we just do it's Broadway shows and things like this. But it's so much fun. mean, it's one of those things where you get to you get the script and you really get to just tease it out. You think about every word and every emotion and every and then you just tease it out. How could I better? It's just it's so much fun.

Yeah.

Yeah, those were great experiences when our school would go on class trips to Broadway in the city and we would watch, you know, we'd be right in front and the interpreters would be there. And, sorry.

There was a gentleman who was an amazing Broadway interpreter named Alan Champion, and he was such a, just a wonderful human being, but he was so, you could see how, because he was a coda as well. And I don't know if that makes a difference or not, I don't know necessarily, but there's a passion that.

I get from you and there was a passion I got from him and it's just the way he portrayed the characters through the signing was just so beautiful and I got to know him a little bit before he passed very young. But he was just an amazing human being and that's when it kind of really, my eyes really opened up meeting people like that. ⁓

Hmm.

the impact of what sign language could be and have on people and how the kids responded to somebody that reached across in such a passionate way, such a feeling way, you know, it was very, very strong.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to look him up after this. He sounds like he was incredible. so what was it? Was it about, was he just engaged? Like, was it, do you think it was just that emotional connection that he had to the character?

Yeah.

I think so, and

I think also to the community too. think the fact that he just really cared. ⁓ He even came out to the school on Long Island a few times. He was just a really, he was in it. He was in the world and he really, really had a real...

⁓ Yeah.

No.

I don't know, the connection was unique, I think. ⁓ And I've met many interpreters and they're all, really I've met so many wonderful interpreters from the outside, coming in, not just the interpreters at my school, but the interpreters from the outside. And yeah, there's something pretty cool about it. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

All right.

Yeah, they're all different, right? So like you were saying, there's

different reasons why they do it and different, you but you can really tell those that like, who are, you know, so Coda or not, because I've seen phenomenal not, you know, yeah, but what I do think it is, is being involved in the community.

Yeah.

Yeah. absolutely. It just happened to be that he was Coda, right? Yeah.

So because a coda is raised by the deaf community, probably high chance that they're actually a part of it. They really care about the deaf community. Their parents are deaf. This brings them into it. And not all codas, right? Some codas choose not to be at all. But I think the interpreters that are not codas that are just in the deaf community, that gets them as close to in culture as possible.

and that's when you see it and you're like, you get it. Yeah.

Yeah,

and I think that's the thing. There are people obviously that aren't gonna connect as well, but it's those with the passion. I think that's what's stuck out with him, and it's very obvious with you. I see your passion. I watched a little some of your interviews. Your signing is beautiful, and your expression, and just the connectedness is so obvious. And so, I could spend all day talking to you, so let's keep going.

All right.

Okay, I know I'm gonna just shoot off in different directions because I'm gonna be I'm gonna be you know Triggered in the best way to memories and things like that things to talk about So let's before we I want to talk about culture later But I really want to delve into this emotional intelligence. How does emotional tell how's it impact interpreting? What's your what's your perspective on that? How did it come to be?

on.

you know, there was the deaf community said, just, want an interpreter, regardless of skills to have a deaf heart. And it stuck with me for a really long time. And I think I've always thought, you know, what is this? What the tease that apart and what does that mean? You know, and we go to school, you know, and they teach us about working memory and they teach us about, you know, free frontal cortex. You know, we have all these words and you know, this is very, know, linguistics and grammar and, culture and this, this.

But then there's also like this whole other side that's kicking in, not just in the interpretation, but also in us. come in and I, you know, I've been nervous and, you know, doing some stage stuff and that's impacted my interpreting or I work with some people that I'm like, whoa, this is really high stakes. This is going to impact their lives. And there you go. I'm questioning every decision I'm making and you know, I'm in my head and that's impacting my presence. I'm not able to be there. So.

I started thinking, you know, there's so much more to just interpreting than just, you know, this idea of like, I show up, I study language, I practice language, I get out in the deaf community a couple times, I get the checkbox and I'm like, okay, like I'm good. There's so much more. It's this underlying like, do I trust myself? Do I trust others? Am I self-aware? How, when I show up, how does that then impact other people?

And then there's the, do I convey this emotion from one person to the next? There's so much that goes into the whole process. And there's a theory role space, which kind of takes a lot of that into play, which I love. it's also the idea of empathy, right? It's not just like, I'm showing up and empathy can be sticky, right? Because if someone who has too much empathy then wants to...

do everything for and is like, gotta save you. And that's not the idea of empathy. It's just feeling with somebody and showing up and saying, you're going through this and I feel that and I'm gonna be here with you during this, at this time. Yeah, and it's huge and it's huge. Yeah, yeah.

Right, not here to save you, I'm here to be with you. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

The, well, you were the, I wish I wrote it down when you said it.

I lost it. Okay, that's all right, whatever. So, there we go, yes. So, I think what I was thinking was that an interpreter could just walk in and do the job, right? You could just walk in cold and do the job. To have that connection to it is obviously gonna bring the communication, make the communication clearer. And there's the big responsibility there.

How about you?

Yeah.

to I would think that might be part of why you'd be nervous a little bit. But I don't think you'd be, when you say you're nervous, you're not necessarily nervous when you're interpreting for people, right? It's more presentation nervous, right?

mean, if you think of a athlete, right, before they get on to play their game, right, they got the pregame jitters and they're like, they're ahead and they're like, if I mess up, like what's going to happen? Like, I think it happens for interpreters too. You get the pregame jitters. And so it's the same thing. And I think just like athletes, you you do visualization, you kind of talk to yourself like, I'm good enough. I've got this. I've done this before. Like you really do have to like have this positive self-talk in your mind. Just say like, I got this.

Sure, OK.

Okay.

Right.

And also that comes with practice, which, there's that other side. It's like, you know, just skills impact emotional intelligence, self-awareness, or does this then impact your skill development and your accuracy? Like both go hand in hand. Yeah.

Sure, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, because

I would think that, you know, wanting to make sure that you're clear, you know, so that people are getting the best of what the other person is saying, you know, and exactly what the other person is saying. Yeah, there's pressure there. There's definitely a pressure there, I would think for sure, right? And so when you do a little pregame and then you go in, once you start, you kind of just go flow, right? Probably it's the nerves go away. Yeah.

Yeah, most of the time, most of the time. mean, there's been

times where, know, gosh, you maybe don't have a team, maybe that doesn't jive and your rhythm is off, you know, or you're feeling critiqued, right? There could be something like that where you're feeling like you're getting very, this negative kind of, or even, or the interpreting situation is, you're just not sure. Like it just feels very like emotionally dense or...

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

something's going on where you can't pinpoint and then you start questioning is that it could happen. Is it me? Am I? You get in your head. there's, having a mentally strong interpreter is really important to separate the boundaries of this is the work, this is what's going on here, it's not me. This may be a really icky situation and it happens sometimes, but I'm gonna keep showing up for this job. So that's that practice. know, absolutely. And what I think when I started interpreting,

Hmm

I did have a lot more of those, know, I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, should I do this or this? And I was very unsure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's the word.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, a lot more self-doubt. Yeah. Yeah, but you are,

you know, it is true, because you're on stage, in a sense. You know, every time you're interpreting, you're on stage, in a sense, because you're performing for other people, right? It is like that, because that's the way I looked at teaching. was like you were performing.

for your students, you know, had to be able to present these things and especially when you're doing it in sign language, you know, to make sure you're clear for every child. And there would be times where, yeah, just like you said, you you felt like you're being judged. I felt like I'm being judged by my assistant who was sitting there with their arms crossed staring at me. You know, it's like, am I doing this? Right. So how do you get to a place? What do you do? Because you train people.

You're not.

Is that correct? So can you talk about how your process with training interpreters to be in this emotional intelligence arena?

Yeah, yeah, so we were, was doing, yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, so.

you know, one of the things that I've been teaching for a long time is reflective practice, which there's the, the Gibbs reflective practice model. And we talk about just the importance of going, okay, so, so what happened then? What did I do? And now what am I going to do next time? There's other models that we follow. So, you know, as we teach emotional intelligence, we teach the different components of it. But what I realized is that emotional intelligence is not like a one and done kind of thing. Like I could learn about it and I could say, but it's an everyday, like every day I'm

For me, practicing like how do I get better is I have to check in with myself every day or after assignments I have to check in with myself and how am I feeling? Why am I feeling that? Really allowing myself to tune in because so much of this is automatic that we don't even realize that we're reacting to certain triggers or things that are happening in our environment. We just don't realize it. So right now, hopefully soon, I'm going to launch a, it's an application. So it's a platform.

Yeah.

where interpreters could get in there and they can journal before an assignment, after an assignment, they can journal before a team, after a team, and really start getting asked these guided questions. Like, you know, how are you feeling? Are you prepared? What about this assignment? Are you feeling nervous about? What do you feel confident in? What do you have to work on? Like things that are actually gonna get interpreters to start thinking about their work in a more thoughtful way, more present way. Yeah, so exciting. Yep.

Yeah, that's

exciting. Yeah, I was going to ask you if you journaled because I thought that's a great way to reflect upon experience, Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you live it twice, right? You get to do

it and you just kind of do it. But once you journal, you live it another time and you have an opportunity to make edits and tweaks and then you can actually do it. You learn from that. Yeah, it's the.

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

And it right. It helps the process. And you mentioned triggers are I wonder, would that be something that would come in? there any times that you've approached a an assignment where you knew the subject was going to be something and maybe not you personally, but maybe you have. But I would think that sometimes for people that might be a situation, right, where you're triggered. Yeah, every day.

⁓ yeah. Yes. Yep. All right. Yeah.

Yeah.

What do

you do in a moment like that? You don't turn down the job. You have to somehow manage the emotional impact to yourself. Is that something that you have considered and how do you approach that?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. There's, I mean, like you said, reflection, grounding, really understanding that this is not about me. This is about, you know, this is their situation. So me showing up is, you know, being there for this situation, but it's not, it's not, and being aware of your, your triggers. And it's interesting because like now neuroscience is talking. there's a Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, who talks about now emotional intelligence has changed a lot.

So triggers is kind of this negative connotation, right? Like I'm getting triggered in a negative way. But that, so how the brain works is it's not even, there's nothing in this world that's negative or positive in our minds, right? Something happens and perhaps then we develop this reaction to it based on whatever our own concept is at the time. So.

If I'm raised in a culture where they, maybe everyone in my family, everyone in my culture hates clowns. And so I kind of learned that I see that and I go, gosh, I'm so then anytime I see a clown, right, that will trigger me to feel this way. But if I'm raised in another culture that loves clowns and has like clowns all over, this is going to be, so I think this idea of triggers and I love that she frames it this way is just things that happen in our environment that we are, we have been, we are.

Sure.

our brain has picked up as something to say, this is the behavior that I'm going to do with this thing. Finding those things in our lives that say, this happens in this, in my environment, which causes me to then feel a certain way. So these feelings come back and maybe they're from a past experience, recognizing that and saying, okay, now we're retraining. So I'm present. This is not happening to me. This is resolved to what happened before. Like separating that and really taking that time is powerful.

It is, and that could be a process too. mean, that could take, that's individual, right? So somebody can walk in and there's an expression, thought contagion. And it's just, you know, like instead of a trigger, so a thought contagion is like something's happened to somebody else and like, no, you know, maybe that happened to me and it brought it back up again, you know? so I would, I just, you know, thinking about an interpreter in the moment where you have to be so focused on what's going on, that to be able to put away those distractions has to be a challenge at times.

Correct? Yeah.

absolutely. Yeah, yeah,

I think so. mean, burnout is so high in the interpreting field right now. It's I mean, it's one of the yeah, absolutely. And I think probably a lot of this is, is this, you know, the hidden emotional labor that goes on and then having it be unprocessed, you know.

Like a therapist who needs a therapist, right? You need to be able to speak to somebody about what's going on for you. Otherwise you're just eating all of everybody else's stuff and it's got to build up and not be a very positive experience for you. that's, you know, again, that's something that...

Yeah.

Yeah.

I guess maybe across my mind through the years, but never gave it much of an in-depth thought. You know, the impact of what you're doing as an interpreter, you're in and around topics that could be very upsetting and disturbing. ⁓ yeah, yeah. But you've been able to manage this through, you do journaling as well and follow up, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I do journaling. You

use different kind of methods. So you do grounding and affirmations and visualization and a lot of the neuroscience kind of approaches that just incorporate that throughout your day. ⁓

Thank

Taking care of yourself, is always a big thing, which people kind of throw to the wayside when you're an interpreter, you're job to job to job and it's nonstop. But the fact of the matter is like we are acknowledging our own presence and our own agency and all of this and being able to set boundaries and taking care of ourselves is really important, this idea of identity. I mean, it's so easy, I think, as an interpreter to get lost in everyone else's story. We're on the periphery, but we're not. So it's never.

Yes, right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's what I thinking.

So it's not about us and it's never about us and we're just here. But the idea of having a strong sense of self in all of this, I think is so important for an interpreter. And you know, you have a lot of young interpreters who just come in the field, know, fresh, you know, 18, they're going to school, they graduate, they start working and haven't had a chance to really build up that strong sense of self or identity. ⁓ So this is, it's definitely something that I think makes a difference with an interpreter who can go the distance.

Yeah.

Right.

really work in these situations where people are in vulnerable, I mean, very vulnerable moments. So it's not only, you know, things that like can cause me to feel a certain way or triggering or whatever, it's just really, really tough situations.

Thank

Yeah.

Do you feel that that's not being addressed enough when these younger interpreters are going through school? Because yeah, you are kind of like, you could be seen as just this, you're not the central character, right? So.

Yeah.

how do you feel about that? I know interpreters, I've known really passionate, beautiful, very giving. I've known some really arrogant, cocky interpreters that think they're like the best in the world because they can sign. And so I've seen across the board all different types of personalities.

and maybe those people don't get impacted or maybe they do and they just take it out somehow that way. those that are really good and those people that are really connected like yourself and the people that have the passion for wanting to do the job right, that emotional intelligence and being able to take care of yourself has to be so important. How do you communicate that to these people? How do you get your clients in the first place? How do you get your message out? mean, it's such a great message. How do people know about this stuff?

Well,

yeah, I just, keep putting it out on social media. You know, I think hopefully with a platform, people will have a chance to actually do it, practice it every day and not, and also not have to talk about it. Like sometimes it's, it's, there's certain things where it's like, okay, I can tell a mentor, but some things I don't necessarily, I'm a little ashamed, you know, or I feel a certain way, or I just want to kind of process it. So having that space where we can just kind of debrief in a way and learn more about ourselves, but not necessarily air it out, I think feels,

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

much more, it's a good place to start, you know, and then you can then expand on it. But, so that's what I'm doing. I, you're right. Like when I was teaching in school, I just want to go back to that point you made when I was teaching school, they weren't teaching this at all. And I asked and they said, we just don't have any time in our curriculum. And I think that's true. You know, the, the curriculum is packed four years to teach a whole language and to be as fluent as you can. So that's two years to learn sign language fluently as much as hopefully possible. And then.

years to learn in terpreting It's just not enough.

Yeah, that, that human component is always the part that they leave. There's never enough time for it. Right. The mechanical practical parts are the parts that you need to be able to do. Right. You need to be able to function. Right. But I think that. What's that you learn it on the job. Exactly. I was going to say that that's kind of normal. Right. We're not trained. We're not ever really taught.

you yeah. So you learn it on the job. But that, you you learn it on the job then, but you know.

True.

the emotional

human component in this. And that's where we're all coming from, right? So it makes no sense. Like it should be something that we should be raised with. It should be early in education. So it doesn't necessarily have to be taken care of in college and things like that, you know? Because, you know, we're taught to become then just this operative thing, you know, this machine-ish in a sense. You know, you're supposed to just be able to sign and interpret and that's it, you know? And who are you? And that's so...

missing the point, I think.

Yeah,

yeah, no, I agree with you. And also then it impacts, it impacts the people that you're interpreting for, you know, nobody wants to go into a place and someone's like, I can't talk to you until it's actually starts and I can't smile at you. just the inter, you know, and it feels so cold and mechanical and you don't build trust that way. And it's like, yeah.

Right.

Right. What I loved is when like an interpreter that

you, you know, we'd have like tons of different presentations and stuff. And during the 90s, we were really fortunate because we had a lot, because of the ASL culture, there was a lot of presentations, shows.

whatever, lot of deaf actors, deaf poets, deaf magicians, all these people that would come to our school. And we were like the small school in Long Island, we were one of the schools, one of the few schools that was doing bye-bye at the time. So we were really kind of like the central place where a lot, it attracted a lot of deaf professionals. And so, oh, it was incredible. So Ella May Lens and...

What a time. Yeah. ⁓

she's phenomenal.

Marybeth

Miller and you know, so these people, and Marybeth Miller ended up working at our school, which was crazy. you know, she was, yeah, she was in the National Theater of the Deaf. People don't know she was a deaf actress and comedian and we actually did a little skit that she directed us in. So I actually got directed by Marybeth Miller, which was kind of cool. The first time I met her, what was the interaction? I met her and, I can't, she mentioned something about my sign to like, just like,

Wow.

Don't worry about it, chill, be cool, it's all good, you know, kind of stuff. And she just like, that's one thing I wanted to talk about too, is like some people are just, and I wanna kind of move this into the deaf culture a little bit. There's some people you're just really comfortable with who are signing, right? Some people you know that, okay, I'm gonna understand this person very clearly and it's gonna be really a great experience. And then there's other people that maybe it's gonna be a little bit more nerve wracking. ⁓

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that kind of pressure, I would think has got, how does that impact you as an interpreter? When you walk in, there's some people that are going to sign, you know, deaf or hearing who were signing much more clearly. There was one person when she signed to me, I felt like I was actually listening. I could actually hear her speaking to me. That's how clear and beautiful it was. I was the most comfortable with her. And then I had other people who was like, I just don't know what you're saying. You know, it's just really tough. Do you have any experiences like that?

Bye.

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, I think, mean, it depends on where they're from and all this stuff, but yeah, I think foundationally, it's like you build trust and you admit when you miss things and you're human and you kind of start from there. I think it's the interpreters that go in or that are like, no, no, no, I got this. And they're pretending like they have everything and they're missing half of the message. And then it's like that.

can kill trust one, but it's just not fair. So yeah, think, think, yeah, of course there's situations like that that are gonna happen. There's people with accents or just, all sorts of things that are gonna come into play, volume, maybe a loud room. There's all of these things. And you just have to admit, you know, sometimes when, hey, I'm not able to do this with any kind of accuracy. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So if you're in like a conference or something like that and something like that might happen, you have, when you mentioned before a team and I don't think people know that sometimes, as interpreters, sometimes you'll have a few interpreters with each other. So if you're voicing for somebody, you'll have them in your ear. If you're missing something, they'll catch up, right? You help each other out. Can you talk about a little bit about that, how that works?

you

Yeah, so nice.

Yeah, yeah. So you have two interpreters. This is another thing that is a huge piece of feeling supported or feeling not... You have two interpreters that are working not just to be there off and on, but actually working together to make sure that everything is good, to make sure the on interpreter is feeling supported. So maybe not only linguistically, but emotionally. You communicate with each other.

I used to love it when we used to work in person because for me, like just having the little affirmation like...

taps on my back from my team was like everything. I'd be like, oh cool, I got this, like I'm on track. Like I feel, it's just that like, you got this. Where, now virtually it's a lot harder. It's a lot harder to pre, you know, conference with not only, you know, the deaf person, but your team. It's harder to make a connection to say, I got you, you got me. There's no judgment. Like this, this whole idea of establishing trust is huge. So, but yeah, it's a huge help when, when you have, when you guys are both on and you both trust each other.

True.

Right.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

and it's a great team. It makes the...

Yeah, yeah, I've seen I've seen

where some interpreters who were interpreter who was struggling and they're there. They got their arm around the person. You know, it's a real, yeah, the real support. So you find yourself you're doing more remote work now. Is that what the work is more? It's more remote than present or?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know if you're noticing that too in your work, but yeah, absolutely.

Well, I definitely noticing it here,

but as an interpreter, would think, you know, that's got to be really challenging because you don't have that personal connection is missing now, right?

Yeah, yeah. And so that is, and also, you one of the things that I thought was so interesting when I was researching this is that, you know, when you're online, you miss so much of body language, you know, all of these emotional things that we get in real life, like we're missing. So for example, like things that we wouldn't even notice, like, you know, when a person's feet are not pointing to you, but they're pointing somewhere else, that means they want to be somewhere else.

Yeah, right?

somewhere else.

we would never like consciously say, this is happening, but we pick up that cue, but we can't even, we don't even have half the cues that we would have in real life. So yeah.

Yeah, I

mean, I mean, you're seeing this part, you're seeing the torso, you know, I have a.

And sometimes

eye contact, know, it really, depends. Like I have a camera now that is really cool, but the camera is like sticks to the middle of the screen. So I could, I don't have to look up to see the, you know, person.

That's what

I need to get because I know when I'm looking, I'm gonna be looking like I'm looking off, you know? Yeah. And when you're trying to make these social media things with like, know, they have it on this platform, there's the transcript, you can read the script, but it never looks like you're looking at it. Yeah. They have AI who allows you to, they change the eye contact, but when I notice with glasses, it makes my eyes get like large and small, looks ridiculous.

Yeah, yeah, and it does.

Yeah, exactly.

If we're interpreting it, it just does not work. you have to like move it. just, your eyes look so weird. It's not, yeah, it doesn't work at all. So yeah.

Yeah, now.

Gosh, absolutely. Well, I'm glad to have that

invention for you. Yeah, but I mean, I work with a deaf couple and yeah. But I turn the iPad so they can see my whole body, you know, even if I'm sitting, at least they can see the whole body, the couple that I'm talking to. ⁓ because I'm like, they're amazing, the adjustments that people who the deaf people make, you know, the accommodations they make for the hearing people who trying to communicate with them, you know.

Yeah, no, it's great. It's good for everyone. Yeah, it's good for everybody.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah, you take what you can get, I guess, in those situations. But as an interpreter, you want the best. And you want to provide the best. So I just want to ask you about, let's see, I had a couple of questions that I'm just, I normally like to just kind of flow like this, but there's certain questions that I want to make sure I get to you specifically. did we talk about, well, let's see. OK. So how?

Yeah? Yeah.

can interpreters show sensitivity when navigating the unique culture norms of the deaf community? And so maybe we need to talk a little bit about the cultural norms of the deaf community. Do you wanna give a little bit of that? Or we could both share it, but maybe you wanna give a little bit of a sense of that?

Yeah, I mean, no, would

love to see what yeah, I would love to see what you have to say because I think I have been shifting a little bit, but not maybe.

Are you? Okay.

Wow.

you know, I'm starting to get a little bit away from it. And so what I knew of it was, especially when in the nineties, again, that's when the cultural explosion kind of happened, you know, post-Deaf Now at Gallaudet and the deaf president now. And I was, that's literally when I started, right the September after that protest was when I got into working as an assistant.

Thank

Well, everybody was like, they were.

And I knew no sign language. had like five hours of sign language

under me. Yeah. So everybody was gung ho. The people that were there for long time were not gung ho. And they were the ones who were actually the ones that were the, you know, they had to retire early or leave because the school focused so much on sign language and it was a total communication school prior to that. And so the teachers didn't, they weren't as fluent in sign language, which was weird to me.

my gosh.

Wow.

Coming in from the outside, it just didn't make sense, you know? But anyway, I love the language. I went to the classes. like I said, you're in country every day. So you're with deaf people all day. Just like going to another country, that's how you pick up the language. And so I would put myself, there was a teacher who I became friendly with, and she was deaf. And I would ask if I could hang out with her after school while she prepped for the next day, and we would chat. So I would push myself and threw myself into situations.

Mmm. Mmm.

As I got to know more and more about it, you you learn that you said earlier referred to getting as close to the center of deaf culture as possible. was a close to the culture, but because if you're not deaf, you can't, you can know all the sign language you want. You can know all about the culture, but you're not in the, you're not part of the culture, right?

Right.

Well, yeah. And you also just would never, I I could never, I've seen, right, as close as I think you can be, but I would never know what it was like to be deaf. Like, I could never. And so I think that, that is it. Yeah. It's not even like they're just gatekeeping. It's just the fact of the matter is no one could really understand that experience except for deaf people. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Right.

Yeah,

gatekeeping, that's a great word to use. It's right, they're not saying, no, you can't come in. like, you just can't come in. You're not deaf. You know our lived experience. Yeah. I mean, you'd like to. And the language was central. ASL was central to the culture. when a group of deaf, the deaf community got together, it was just a celebration.

Exactly.

You know, and I remember my first time walking into a restaurant on a deaf night, they called it, and it was just hands flying, you know, all up and down the bar and just, it was this wild experience to walk into. And I thought it was really beautiful. What I also found, which interesting, was that like in Ireland where you have families, know, little ones, the grandparents that go to the pub or whatever and hang out, the same thing in the deaf culture.

Like you could be a little kid or you could have the grandparent, everything in between and everybody is there together. Like I felt like that sense of community with the family being a powerful part of it and everybody being accepted, you know, and almost in almost an equal sense because the language was the was the equalizer, great equalizer. And when that got threatened, you know, there was the talk of the genocide of the deaf and all of this kind of stuff, you know, because

Yeah.

So, thank

Yeah.

the language is being threatened with the cochlear implants. And my sense is that the language is surviving. And maybe you could speak more to that because I'm kind of curious about where the language fits into the world at this point, you know, with all these cochlear implants. And are there really just still pure deaf people out there that are using the language? You know what I mean?

Yeah, well, I mean,

I don't know. mean, it's a hard one for me to kind of navigate. think I differ for what I see on the periphery is that, you know, AIs here. So that's something that, you know, it's not just cochlear implants, but it's the fact that there is also right, closed captioning on everything, which is great, right? There's, you know, potentially sign language recognition, sign language avatars, great.

Thank

But how also does that narrow down the culture? There's embedded racism in AI. There's different purposes of why people put out AI. There was something that I was reading recently. It was related to technocracy, which is how technology is kind of like taking over and becoming the power.

If I could remember, was cyborg. I believe it was cyborg theory. So if anyone wants to look it up, super interesting. But it's related to how does technology then impact groups of people, particularly people with disabilities? Who's making money off of them? Who do they, do people care about the culture as they're introducing and dropping these new solutions, technological solutions, things like this. So I think going forward, you know,

I just think it's a very interesting conversation to have. was going back to what you were saying. You go to a deaf night out and I'm sure deaf people feel the same way if they were a part of this. It's like, this is home. is, you you just this feeling of like, will that happen again? Is that still happening? You know, with people staying at home more with, you know, people's zoom meeting and not going out more. Like those are questions. I think that, I think

have to be talked about and seeing how culture is going to be sustained, how it's going to evolve, how language is sustained and evolved, it's interesting.

Yeah, it is interesting because it's kind of like my question almost showed my where I stopped in my process because I didn't wasn't even considering the AI component. mean, certainly, the phone has made a huge difference. And so I knew the impact of the texting and things like that, the immediacy of that, but not considering. And that is a really, really great subject to be talking about how AI impacts the culture.

And it sounds like maybe it's doing some damage to the culture.

Yeah.

But also good things. So I say that with a grain of salt. No, no, it's incredible. I'm so, so I imagine if there are avatars out there that can sign, deaf people can order at drive-thrus, right? There's avatars everywhere. When they travel, there's avatars. The places that you just can't get access and have been kind of the ease of life is gonna be just incredible.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's amazing.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So yeah,

that's amazing.

Yeah, so there's always this give and take and there's just always conversations I think to be had, but yeah.

Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I just, you know, I think, yeah, there's always good and bad to everything, and I don't mean to imply that it was just a negative, was just that when...

No, I think

I was coming off saying, it sounded like I was coming off and saying that. And yeah, so I think that was on me. Yeah, sorry. I've just been researching it a lot these days. I just think it's super interesting. Yeah.

no. How dare you? Unbelievable.

Yeah, no, I do too. And

I want to make sure that I'm not sounding close minded to it because I do, I see the benefits of AI in everyday life for sure. But there are going to be the negatives. And my always concern with the deaf culture was with its survival, you know? And I know that when I left it, it was in a tenuous position because the school that I had loved for so many years that professed sign language to be such an important component.

Yeah.

was now under a new administration that rejected sign language with the youngest kids and really deferred to a more oral approach and oral learning. And that was very disturbing to me because I felt like this is now a new generation of children that are gonna grow up, have no idea that they're deaf or what deaf means and what deaf culture is because they're not being allowed into it. Juxtapose that to the 90s when it was just like I said, all these people

coming in and just sharing the richness of the culture and the beauty of the culture and these kids were, I I have to say, I feel like I was in the golden age of deaf education and it was a very brief period too, and it turned out it was very brief. It was really like a minute, but it was very, very distinctive. And so that's always been something that for me, I would never read.

Sounds like, I know.

There never was anti cochlear implants. I was never anti any of that stuff. know, progress is progress. But at the same time, let's, let's appreciate everything that sign language and Deaf culture has to it, right? And not reject it. I don't know. That's, that's the way I feel about it.

Yeah, yeah, have to say,

no, and yes, yes to everything you're saying. I think it's all right. And also we're at a point now where I'm seeing more deaf CEOs out there. I'm seeing more deaf leaders out there than ever before. So and, you know, signing, you know, not signing just the gamut, but the idea that but to me, you're deaf, right? That regardless of whether you were raised a certain way,

whether right you're still deaf, this idea that this is what you bring, this life experience and the opportunities are so much more than they've ever been. The awareness of deaf people out there in the communities, the public is like so much more than it's ever been. So there are, there are pockets or shifts, there's these arguments, but I think when it comes down to it, it's something that we touched on with emotional intelligence is this idea of humanity. Like a person born,

should feel complete, should feel loved, should feel supported, should feel like they can navigate the world as authentically as they can, you know, in whatever experience. So as an interpreter, I'm always mindful of that. Like I am there to ensure that that experience that they have in their world, in their life is as authentic and as natural as possible, right? I'm not trying to take away from, I'm not trying to distract, make it about me. I want, am there to ensure that that happens as I think.

Mm-hmm.

education system should be as I think everything else and this idea that that person's identity, emotions, all of that, it's so contingent, right, on these things that are happening. ⁓

Absolutely. It's so

beautifully said. I almost feel like I don't want to end it there because it's so great. I have so many more questions to ask you. We're an hour in and I don't want to keep you on it. But maybe we could come back and continue this conversation because I...

you

don't know how to do it, I think so.

my gosh.

There's so much more to talk about. Did we cover enough of what you wanted to cover? If there's anything that you want to just kind of speak about before we sign off on anything that we didn't necessarily cover that you want to get across to people.

I'm not going to...

No, I think that, you know, I just think that when, this is for educators too, so I think, you know, as interpreters, I just wanted to make a point that like, we, of course, we see all these things that are happening, we're witnessing all these things, but as parents and all the people that you work with, I think you're living it. So it's not just interpreters that have to have good emotional intelligence, it's parents who have to build it up too. It's this idea of,

you're having to advocate all the time. You're having to have these difficult conversations all the time. You're witnessing, you know, your children go through all of these struggles or maybe, you know, systems that aren't made for them, things like that. And it's this idea that, you know, you're experiencing, you know, this secondary trauma sometimes, you're, you know, all of these, these ripple effects of what's happening. And so to acknowledge that and just be,

mindful that you too deserve self care and love as much as you're pouring into your child and to be the best you that this, you know, developing those EQ skills and really recognizing what goes on is so important. That's where our kids learn. They learn from us, right? We learn from. So yeah.

Yeah, right.

Exactly. How can people tune into their emotional intelligence through working with you? You're the founder of Building Bridges, correct? Can you talk a little bit about that before and then we can talk about how people can reach you? I'm curious about the process that people would go once they connect with you, what would the process be like?

Yes, yes, yes.

So the platform that we're developing for interpreters right now, we're gonna develop that out for the general community too. So the idea of self-reflection every day, and having it curated, so contact me, first of all, we provide workshops. So we definitely are looking at providing workshops for people who interact with the deaf community or interact with people who are from different cultures or communities, things like this.

But emotional intelligence basics is important to understand. And so we provide that education first. It's understanding even these emotions that we have on a daily basis that we don't even know what they are. And so if you can't even, it's like a sommelier, right? So you could drink wine and I hope no one's offended by this comparison. I could use colors, but you drink it and you're like.

I don't even know what I'm tasting. But to a sommelier who actually knows, they could taste that wine and they go, this is the age and this is the vintage and this has got smoky hints. And that's the same thing as starting to learn what's going on inside of your emotions. And there's a purpose for emotions, which you didn't know for a long time. It's almost like an alert system. Well, this is something that attaches to this previous experience that I had and it's making me feel a certain way. And it's asking you to check in with that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

and so often we just don't know what to do. So yeah, so I'd say contact me, look at the workshops we provide. That's a good place to start.

Yeah, I want to look at the workshops too, because I'm just curious. I'd like to see, you know, what I could take away from it. I think it would sounds amazing. It sounds amazing. It sounds like something that interpreters would could grow from and just I would think their their impact and their abilities to do their job would just grow, you know, to a level I can't speak. be they would just be better for me. Absolutely. Yeah.

all of that, right? Just be better to them. It's like, it's important. Yeah,

I it'd be great. Thank you so much for the time today. This has been such a pleasure. Like I said, I could keep going on talking to you because there's so much to talk about and just to share. I I hope I didn't talk too much because yeah, I want to be able to share more. I don't get to speak about it to people who kind of know the situation and...

No, my gosh, I love this. This is great.

have.

the whole deaf culture experience to me was something that changed my life because it really opened up a world I had no idea existed and walking in, you you think...

one way and then once you're in it you like what wasn't obvious becomes obvious you know and I guess that's like in anything but certainly in this in this culture I'm so glad that there's more recognition and like you said there's more people out there doing leaders becoming leaders in this in this world and I think that's really amazing news it's it's really fantastic so thanks for sharing that and thanks for sharing everything about you and thank you for all you do you're just a delight and you're so good at what you do and people should watch you sign too

Yeah.

to very really, really beautiful signer. Nothing to be nervous about, but I get it because I later in life, I started playing music. So, you know, I have, when I play a gig, it's like, yeah, I mean, you feel like, you know, you, like you say, you more experienced and then you feel like more comfortable, but there's always that jitters, you know, so because it is a performance interpreting as an important as a performance. so.

Yeah.

Yep, you. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, this is great. And hopefully we'll have another time because I would love to dive into some more stuff with you. Thank you. Yeah, this is great.

Thanks for doing what you do. Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓ great.

I'm glad. Now, yeah, now this is wonderful. I'm so glad that you want to come back. I definitely let's let's set that up soon so we can keep we can pick up on this because I think this is really, really informative for people. And I think helpful for parents to open their eyes to especially if their children are really young right now going through the system and they're not being exposed to sign language. Maybe this is a way to encourage them to kind of maybe push for that a little bit. ⁓ Yeah, I hope so, too.

Yeah, good.

I hope so.

Alright, Sarah, thank you. I'll be in touch. Thanks for all your time. Okay.

Sounds good. All right. Have a good day. Bye. Thank you.