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In this insightful episode of "Cultivation Elevated," host Michael Williamson sits down with Sia of Grow Motion, to delve into the intricate world of the European cannabis industry. They navigate the complexities of establishing a thriving cannabis enterprise in Switzerland, from crafting a unique brand that resonates with a dedicated community to employing innovative agricultural technologies like the Elevate Platform system.

Sia shares his entrepreneurial journey and the strategic moves that set Grow Motion apart in a competitive market, including exclusive genetics and German partnerships. This conversation not only highlights the challenges of scaling a business and maintaining a strong team spirit but also speculates on the evolving role of Switzerland in the European cannabis landscape and the future of THC legislation. Listeners are invited to join Michael and Sia for an episode that promises to enrich their understanding of the cannabis industry and the meticulous efforts behind Grow Motion's success.

Key Takeaways

(04:37 Building a Facility in Switzerland

(16:10) CBD and THC Usage Comparison in Europe

(24:19) Cannabis Industry Challenges

(29:00) The Decision to Build Three Tiers

(34:58) Creating a Safety-Focused Elevate Platform System

(39:48 ) GrowMotion's Unique Program Details

(45:57) Switzerland's Cannabis History

(49:38) GrowMotion Goals

Memorable Quotes

"If I start a project, I will never stop anytime. I will finish it. It's important to build a community, to give them the best quality. You cannot build a brand that reaches the top level and then is forgotten after two or three months." - Sia

"We have to be different if we want to play the game for the long term. You can't compete on quality alone; it's about creating a unique product that resonates with the community and stands the test of time." - Sia

"In the world of cannabis cultivation, it's about more than just the plant. It's about the people, the passion, and the dedication to create something exceptional. That's what truly makes a difference in this industry." - Michael Williamson"

Connect with GrowMotion

Website: https://growmotion.com/

Facebook: https://growmotion.com/facebook

Instagram: https://growmotion.com/facebook

Twitter: https://growmotion.com/twitter

Discord: https://growmotion.com/discord

YouTube: https://growmotion.com/youtube

TikTok: https://growmotion.com/tiktok

Connect With Pipp

Pipp Horticulture Website - https://pipphorticulture.com/

Pipp Horticulture YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4nNnNCiwS5k5GX7BaXIrbA

Pipp Horticulture - Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pipphorticulture

Pipp Horticulture Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pipphorticulture/

Pipp Horticulture LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/18333737/

Pipp Horticulture Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/pipphorticulture/

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Podcast Production by FullCast

00:02 - VO (Host)

You're listening to Cultivation Elevated, hosted by Michael Williamson, where we discuss vertical farming in the future of cannabis and food production. You'll be learning key insights for vertical farming success from leading industry operators, growers and executives. If you're a grower or owner looking to optimize your existing or new indoor cultivation facility, or anyone looking to cultivate more in less space, we've got you covered. Cultivation Elevated, sponsored by Pip Particulture.

00:31 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Hello and welcome to another episode of Cultivation Elevated, sponsored by Pip Particulture. I'm your host, michael Williamson, and I'm here in Switzerland with Sia of Grow Motion. Thank you so much for being on this show today and accommodating us here last minute. Thank you very much, it's great to have you here.

00:49 - Sia (Host)

I hope you enjoy the time. I hope you like the facility.

00:54 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Yeah, you know, when we go to a facility we never quite know what we're going to see, and so we're always optimistic. But sometimes we're a little bit disappointed, and we came here hoping to see a nice Swiss grow and we were very surprised at the quality of things that you're doing, the caliber of things. So we're very impressed, which is awesome, thank you very much.

01:16 - Sia (Host)

It was a long journey and it was a lot of work the last three years, but we tried to make a unique facility for people which visit us to feel comfortable.

01:31 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Yeah, we did a great job. Tell me a little bit about that journey. It started three years ago, absolutely, and what was it? Someone called you. You called someone who had the first idea.

01:42 - Sia (Host)

I remember that day that a good, good friend of mine we knew each other for more than 10 years and he gave me a call and told me see, I have that special idea and I need you for that job. And I told him what is it? He told me I want to make cannabis facility. I told him why me? I have no experience with cannabis. Why are you calling me? You have a lot of friends, you have your own experience with cannabis and you knew so many people. Why are you calling me? And he told me I have that vision and I need a partner on my side. But he shared that vision with me and he can make that facility in the next few years with me. And we talk at the day for three or four hours and we argue for different things why is it a good idea or why is it a bad idea? And I told him let's make a few steps and we will see what happened in a few months and the journey starts. What were those steps? The first step was if we have a facility, what will be happened then? Because there are a lot of facilities with the land. It's a lot of great grower, a lot of great facilities, but what we can do different, okay, and where we are coming from and how we can use our experience with the next project that we are making. The first step was to find the right people, who you're working with, the right engineers, the right people who can construct that facility and planning that facility with us.

03:33

And the problem is in the cannabis industry in Europe. It's a very, very new industry. You're talking to 10 people and 10 people are the best expert and engineers in cannabis. Everyone in Europe is an expert for cannabis, but if you go into the details, into the planning, then you knew that they experienced a little bit more than you have. But they are not the right people to build that unique facility. We have some special ideas and the people who already built facilities before they want to do the same again and again. Copy it, pass it, copy it, pass it. But we want to have something different.

04:23

And we find some engineering team from Holland, some from Switzerland, and the next step was to find the perfect place where we can build that. We find that facility around about 6,000 square meters, middle of Solot. I think the infrastructure is here very great. We are in the middle of Switzerland. France is one hour away, germany is one hour away, söri is one hour away, and that's a great, great benefit that we have here. And we started, we rent that facility for the next 20 years and we say we're going all in, we're going to build a facility, we're going to build a facility, we're going to build a facility. We see a lot of indoor facilities. We have a lot of German artists. We have a lot of German artists. We have a lot of German artists. And when I was 21, I ran to shop. I was my make my own, first own bakery.

09:05

Okay, I want to make my own business? Okay, and with 26, I built my own closing brand and my partner my current partner know that I'm kind of guy. If I start a project and I will never stop anytime, I will finish it. Okay, I will not call him in between I will build that facility.

10:20

I think everyone can build a brand Okay, but it's important how you sell it to the people. Okay, it's important to find the right community. Okay, to build a community to give them the best quality. And you cannot build a brand and a lot of brands going high at a top level, but after two or three months they're going to forget, okay. And to make a brand or to find the best way to go to the top and be the best or present your brand will be, you have to find the best quality, you have to build a great community and to have the right partners.

11:04 - Michael Williamson (Host)

I hope was answer of your question yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is Well, and it's never like one thing right, it's never like one simple thing oh, you just do this and you'll be successful. It's always a combination of multiple things coming together with the right timing usually Absolutely. Talk to me about how you guys came up with the name grow motion.

11:23 - Sia (Host)

At the day that you call me, we talk about the name and a few weeks later, what is the brand? Okay, what will be the brand in long term If we go with a German artist, if we promote them with German artists? We don't only want to sell some closing or some cannabis. It's more than that. It's more than that and we want to get a community. That's why we choose that brand or we name the brand grow motion, that we say we grow, we are community and we grow together, we are a motion together. You know it's hip hop. We work a lot of hip hop artists and hip hop is also a community thing. You know, we think that we can make our brand in that genre and we can place our brand in that hip hop, because hip hop and cannabis belong also together.

12:27 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Nice. What is something that you wish that you would have known before you got started?

12:37 - Sia (Host)

Yeah, Cannabis business in Europe is very, very difficult. Okay, if I knew that before, I will think twice if I do that business again or not. I love my job, okay, I come every day with a smile in the facility. I like my team. But the big problem that we have in the current European market is the law. Okay, you don't have exactly laws how to work with cannabis. Okay, it's change week by week. The politic change their mind every month. Okay, this is the big problem. And for people like us who are all in that business and build facility, high level facilities like that, we invest a lot of money. But if we invested and we don't know what happened in a few years, okay, this is our big problem and this is the challenge to survive for the next few years, for the next few years till the law, till the politic in Germany, switzerland and Austria find a solution.

13:48 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's expensive to play the game that you're playing right now because you have to wait and be so patient. And can you talk a little bit about the crop that you're growing, cause though it looks like cannabis, it's not the THC type. It is a CBD rich currently. Can you talk a little bit about the market and the laws around potency and who's allowed to buy it and kind of?

14:10 - Sia (Host)

in Switzerland it's allowed to produce CBD with less than 1% THC. That's okay, can do that. Everything over 1% is not allowed and we try to be the first in Switzerland who get the permission to produce THC for medical and the whole law. In German speaking countries like Germany and Austria, it also CBD now is not allowed. It's only allowed to sell cannabis lower than 0.2%. That means nothing, sure, okay, this is the big challenge To make a brand in Germany. Okay, with less than 0.2%, this make no sense. Okay, but we try our best to build that community to represent our brand. In the longterm, when it's legalized, we will be the first or the popular brand in Germany.

15:14 - Michael Williamson (Host)

And when you have a low THC requirement like that, what's important about the plant and I know Ben's not here and your new grower just started, but I would imagine like terpenes are really important and like that taste, that experience that you're having. But do terpenes play an important role in the CBD game here?

15:34 - Sia (Host)

I think the CBD game the most important thing is the terpen. Okay, the terpen and then how the structure of the buds are Okay, because there are a lot of facilities or underground facilities. We have a big, big problems issues with terpenes they have no LEDs, they have no CO2, they have no cooling system and the difference between us and other underground facilities we have a higher level setup here and we can produce a higher level CBD. Take our experience for the next one two, maybe six months, I don't know experience with CBD. And if we switched off to THC, then we had a lot of experience with CBD and we can make a perfect THC product for medical or for how are people using CBD in Switzerland, so can anybody buy it.

16:36 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Is there an age restriction?

16:38 - Sia (Host)

Yeah, in Switzerland, everyone up then 18 years can buy it. You can buy it in any shop, very easy, okay, and you can buy it from different companies. It's not a big problem to get it and it's also okay if you smoke it on the street. But a lot of people do use it very different. It depends on age and it depends on, for example, if you have all the people they like to smoke just CBD Okay, the younger people who consume THC, they mix it with the CBD. Okay. It's great that the CBD is legalized here in Switzerland, because the big problem that we have in Germany because I grew up in Germany, now I live for three or four years here the problem is that we have in Germany if you buy cannabis, you don't know how they grow, they don't know what's sprayed on it, they don't know how they come, okay, who sell it to you. You know, the big thing in Switzerland is if you're going to a shop and buy a CBD, you can be 90-95% sure that they're clean.

17:53 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Nice, so people are buying some bulk as well. There's no limit as well, like sometimes in certain places we go. You can only buy so much of it a day, maybe 10 grams or 28 grams or something like that.

18:06 - Sia (Host)

There is no limit. If we're talking about CBD, there is no limit. You can go buy one kilo 10 kilo.

18:13 - Michael Williamson (Host)

The people that are buying bulk are. They typically doing it for extraction.

18:18 - Sia (Host)

If we're talking like people coming and buying bulk, they will never use our flowers for extraction because we have a very, very high quality cannabis. And if you use that cannabis for making oils or creams or something like that, it's not made for that, it's just for smoking.

18:42 - Michael Williamson (Host)

This is smokable flower.

18:44 - Sia (Host)

Exactly, you have an indoor facility like that, it's just for premium smokers, but there are a lot of outdoor, a lot of facilities who made only bulk or cannabis for making extraction oils. But we will never sell our cannabis for oil. Make no sense.

19:11 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Let's talk a little bit about the genetics that you started with. So you're on your third harvest or batch coming up in another. What week? We came at a good time, right, yes, we came at a good time, and this one is called plutonium. Can you tell me a little bit about the relationship you have with the breeder and the story behind plutonium and why it's unique and special?

19:32 - Sia (Host)

We started our first grow with a simple genetic to make our experience. After the second harvest we talked to a breeder. He is sitting also in Zurich and he's a very, very talented guy. I talk to him and tell him we want to go to the German market, we want to go with special artists, we have exclusive deals with special German rap stars, what we can do, how we can go together, you as a talented guy, okay, and we with our facility to produce a special genetic for our artists.

20:17

And he told me come over, let me show you something. And he introduced me that plutonium and he promised me okay, if you produce it and I produce it, it will be limited. Okay, that we can produce it by ourselves. We don't spread it to the whole market. And we, first of all, we had a small area, we tested for one round, we checked the quality, we like it, we introduced it to the rap star, to the rap artist. He also liked it and we say, okay, let's do that. Okay. And he give us that exclusive for us. Nice, it makes you different. That's it. You have to be different if you want to play that game for long term.

21:06 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Yeah, it's a problem when everybody grows the same stuff, because the only way that you compete is quality, but usually it's price, and then it's just a price war to the bottom and you get beat up.

21:15 - Sia (Host)

Absolutely. This is the big problem that a lot of Switzerland growing companies have. They start with the genetic and if they not change it or they not check the market, what's happening? After few harvest they get close. You know they cannot survive?

21:37 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Do you talk to the people that sell at the different shops for you? Do you get feedback from them about what customers are saying or any of that stuff to help you make decisions here? How does that work?

21:46 - Sia (Host)

It's very different. Some people, a lot of people in Switzerland we are who are coming from making that business or buying that stuff. They are coming from black market, and the black market in the past was like that you buy something and you don't give a feedback. Okay, sure. That's why all people who switch from the black market to now the official market have to learn that we, as a grower, need that feedback. Okay. That's why there was very confused when after one week, he buy 50 kilos and I could give him call you liked it. How was it Say yeah, it was okay, give me a feedback, you want another genetic, let's talk together. I talked to the shops and say hey, in long term we want to work long term together. Give me just some feedback. They have to learn it that the cannabis business or the growers need the feedback from the markets to work and for many years.

22:51

Yeah.

22:52 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Otherwise, you could grow the wrong thing and if it doesn't sell, you got a big problem right. So you are responsible for creating this team, this brand and this team. When you're creating a team, especially for something as unique as this, what kind of things are going through your head Like okay, I need to build a team, I need this kind of person, and maybe a person like this Like walk me through what you were thinking when you said all right, I got to build the ultimate team.

23:16 - Sia (Host)

We are very small. We are just five people, five workers, and need a six one. The problem is, if you have a small team, you have to build a family. Okay, you have to build a small family. You don't need a worker that started eight o'clock and go home at four o'clock and four o'clock is, throw his stuff away and go and you don't need like that.

23:41

You need a small family that believe in that project. We believe what we want to do in the next few years and before we start the production. It's very difficult to find people who are, who have experience with growing and if you have a facility like that, so big like that, you need people who live for that plant, okay, who love that plant. You cannot take someone who have experience for one year and I have to teach him how it works. You know you need people who have experience more than 10 years and my partner give me a number of a guy who named Ben. He told him just give him a call and she grow for many years in a black market in Spain and ask him and convince him to come from Spain to Switzerland and be part of a team. I tried to call him many times and he don't answer. My phone Phone was off After I find out that he's in prison.

24:59

You know he was in a black market, he was arrested and he has passed and after a few months for some connection, I told him what are you doing currently? What you want to go? You want to still work in a black market and go to prison once again, or you want to have a fixed job, do what you love? Okay. And if you eat at the evening, coming home to your son, to your family, that you have to be sure that you will not be arrested? Okay. And his answer was I grow for more than 10 years, 15 years, I can't do nothing else. Okay, it's my passion. And I invited him to Switzerland. He's seen the facility and he don't go back.

25:47

Same day here I booked for a rent for him in a hotel for a few weeks and he stay here and build the last U-Mart facility with us Nice. He'll be started.

26:00 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's amazing. It's interesting when you engage with cannabis. It is very hard to leave cannabis. For these growers, who have a lot of experience, everything else seems a little bit more boring or not as exciting. Or they just see how you kind of get negative on yourself. You're like well, I'm so specialist in this area, I don't know how I can contribute to something else.

26:23 - VO (Host)

Absolutely.

26:24 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's difficult. I know lots of people who've been in the industry for a long time and they try and leave. It's enough to not have, or they've made some money or whatever it is, and they would go to leave, and they only leave for a few months.

26:36 - Sia (Host)

They come back.

26:36 - Michael Williamson (Host)

They come right back and they're ready to play and they're excited. They just needed a little break sometimes.

26:42 - Sia (Host)

The problem that the facilities who make indoor growing they think they have to build a team with growers. I've been in a lot of facilities. They have six, seven, eight growers. I see it's a big, big mistake. You need two great growers which work together. It's also important to have a technical guide. It's also important to have people who are not growers, Because if you have a lot of growers who think different, the result will be never, never, great. Okay, that's why we have Ben as a head grower. Also, last week we start a second grower who also grew in Spain and California. I think he will be a great partner for Ben in the long term that they can manage the facility. The rest of the team are classic workers or talented technical guys, Because in that facility you see our technical room, you see all the technical stuff that we have here and you need talented technical guys if you want to manage a system like that.

28:05 - Michael Williamson (Host)

In the States we refer to the technical people usually as facilities. I personally think that the facilities supervisor, manager, whatever you want to call it is one of the most important people on the team. They're the one that come at two o'clock in the morning when something is broken. They're the first ones on the phone. They're like the unsung heroes of the farm. Some facilities have a lot of growers and that can be a big problem.

28:31

You said you saw a facility that has six or eight growers. It's hard to make decisions with that many opinions and personalities. But you've now brought on your second grower and the goal is to have those two be synced up but also different with skills and be collaborative in nature. That way, if someone needs to do something with family, you always have a grower. You're never without a grower, because people need to have a balance with life and the garden. Let's talk a little bit more about the garden, Something that you did here. That's very unique and I commend you because it takes a lot of courage. You said okay, I see multi-tier, I see everybody doing two tiers. We're going to do three tiers. Talk to me about how that idea came to be.

29:20 - Sia (Host)

Why three layers? The first reason was we live in Switzerland and the rent for this facility is very, very expensive. That's why we want to get the maximum of this facility. That's why we make the decision to work on three layers. This facility has the perfect height to build that three layers. The second thing is we have that great showroom. We invite a lot of people here from university, from medical people, people who visit us from different countries of the world. If they are here, and that facility.

30:01

If you're working on three layers, there's a big wow effect. People come in that room. They don't expect to see something amazing, great, looking like that. That's why, when you stay here and break down the wall, we say we have to do that on three layers. Of course it's much more work. You need a bigger team to handle that, but of course you can put in one room more plans if you work on three layers.

30:30 - Michael Williamson (Host)

That makes sense. When you're in an expensive area and your rent is expensive, you have to figure out how to survive. We see right now in San Francisco and in the Bay Area of California also very expensive. A lot of people didn't scale up high enough and they didn't get their operations lean enough or low enough costs of labor. They're having a lot of struggles. Right now. We see a big conversion happening with people in California who are transitioning from single-tier maybe HPS or LED lighting to a two-tier system just to survive because there's no more real estate for them. They can't expand horizontally so they only have one choice and it's typically to go up if they have the space. But it's a lot more difficult to transition a room the single-tier to double-tier than to start from scratch.

31:21 - Sia (Host)

Absolutely, when we make that decision. We had no other experience in Europe. I think we are the only one on three layers. It was a big risk, but we trust in our vision and our setup that we can manage.

31:40 - Michael Williamson (Host)

One of the things that I think and Anders is who's with us on this tour. We've been in other three-tiered groves in the United States but we do see that there's a little bit of a difference on the top tier, where here your top tier is pretty much the same as your middle tier and your bottom tier, with very little fluctuation, if any, that I can notice.

32:00 - Sia (Host)

I'm sure there's some stuff that you notice, but the plans on a third layer is similar to the first layer. The setup is when we start to choose our setup. If we start to work with different companies, we try to get the best which we get on the market. We never work with a cheap quality material because we only plan long-term and we want to have the best results. That's why with the setup, all each type of setup that we use, technical stuff we try to make it as best as possible that we have each grow similar, like the next one.

32:49 - Michael Williamson (Host)

What was one of the biggest challenges you saw with the vertical farming on the three layers?

32:56 - Sia (Host)

The biggest challenge is to find the best workflow with a small team. This is the biggest challenge. If you work on one layer, you are much faster. If you have not a perfect system how to do the workflows, that is okay, but if you're working on three layers or two layers, you have to plan everything step by step. Planning is the most important thing. If you start, for example, harvesting, soaking or deflation or anything with a plant, you have to have a system of three layers. If you don't have a system, you will never get finished. We're talking about three layers, 3,000 plants per room. If you want to treat them one by one, you have to have a system for it. If you don't have it, you're going to lose.

33:50 - Michael Williamson (Host)

I agree. You guys are utilizing the Elevate Platform system for access. You've had it since day one or you were using something else previously.

33:58 - Sia (Host)

No, we have it from day one. This is, I think, the most important thing in this facility. If we don't have it, we need it for every single step. We need double the time. That's a lot of labor, absolutely. That's why to have the platforms is a big, big benefit. You can put the platform on it. You can work with 10 people at the same time. If you have an elevator you're going up down, you can only work with one or two people. You will never be finished. It's not possible With that platforms. You need around about seven minutes maximum 10 minutes with three people to have it perfect. It's very safety. You can work on it. You can spend many hours on it and you can work. That's great.

34:58 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Safety was obviously the most important component of what we do. When you start to go up and get excited, you're like, oh, we can do this. Our in-house engineering team is like we have to make this as safe as possible. It took us a little bit of time to figure out something. You can make something that's safe, but you also have to make something that's actually practical. You can set it up quickly. It can't be this big, elaborate thing. There was a lot of energy and time that went into designing and planning the Elevate Platform system. The growers that we have in the States that were using lifts and ladders and scaffolding previously because we didn't have a solution. When we brought out the solution, when I do interviews with them, they referred to it as a game changer. Absolutely, it's an absolute game changer, which for us, is good because ultimately, at PIP, we're just trying to produce useful tools for growers Make your life easier, make it safer. We're staying on that quest. That's really important to PIP.

35:54 - Sia (Host)

I think we don't have this platform. It's impossible to work on three layers. First of all, safety. But you have a lot of process. You have to make the same process you do at this first layer, you have to do that on the third layer and you need time. If you're using any elevators, if you have not the opportunity to put seven or eight people on the third layer, then you're losing a lot of time. That platform is the best solution that we have on three layers.

36:25 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Yeah, it's incredible how much it changes everything about safety. When you're going up to a second or even a third level especially a third level you have to think about every little part and piece of equipment you're going to need. You don't want to be going up and down, up and down. It's so inefficient. Like you said, it's really pinpointing all the little details, all the steps. What tools do I need? How long should it take? When should I start? When do I need to end? When do I monitor my pace? If someone is becoming slow, is there someone I can call to come help me so I can get this done?

36:55

Today there's a lot that goes into planning and it's clear that you guys really value the planning process and it shows in the execution. Usually, when we see sloppy execution or poor execution, it translates very directly to poor planning. They're constantly putting out fires. It's like the fingers in the dike and all of a sudden they run out of fingers and it all comes crashing back. What's something that gets you really excited every day to come in? You're on year three, right?

37:28 - Sia (Host)

The first year was the planning, the second year built the facility and now in a few months, we are one year old, I think to come here and work here. It's the team. I have a very, very great team. The big problem that I had for the last 15 years, when I make my business to find the right team, I had a never 100% team. Every time people employer, worker that are not on point, and it was that team. It was that small, adventurous team that I have here. They are great. They are great Not only a family, they work by ourselves. I don't need to tell them, guys, we have a lot to do, we stay today three hours more, two hours more. They are the first one telling me, hey, we stay today a little longer, we have to finish that job. This is what's giving me the power to come every day here and give 100%. That's awesome.

38:34 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's amazing when the teams work together. One of the things that happens early on in startup is you have a small team and so you have this community or family and then, as you grow your business, your team gets larger and larger. That seems to be where people start to struggle, because you bring on phase two, phase three and all of a sudden you go from five employees to 30 employees or 40 employees or 50, and it's hard sometimes to keep that culture and that level of respect. It's usually where we see, when I do these interviews with growers, specifically when I ask them what their greatest challenges are, I'm always surprised not so much these days, but in the beginning. They would always say managing people, some of the best growers in the world. They don't really like people.

39:17

You know, like if you go back to the black market. They usually grew cannabis by themselves, absolutely. Maybe they had one partner, but they didn't work in a team setting like this, and so sometimes, when they transition over to this market, the legal market, it's a challenge to work with others and communicate with others.

39:35 - Sia (Host)

I think this is the most important thing to communicate. This is one of the parts of my job. I love that. You know to build teams. Okay, to build teams in the long term. I know, of course, if we have more rooms, more plans, we need a bigger team. And if we are more than 20, 30, it's never been similar like that. We will never be 30 people. We'll never be same family like five people or six people.

40:05

I know that. That's why I enjoy the time now with that small of group and I know, I know it doesn't matter what happens. They stay by my side.

40:17 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Yeah, that's awesome. So when we were going through your website, we noticed you have like a unique program that allows people to rent a plant. Yes, we have.

40:27 - Sia (Host)

Yeah, tell me about that, yeah we have limited numbers of plants that we gave the opportunity to a small community to buy a plant. Okay, if they buy a plant, they have also a place here. Okay, and we treat their flowers here. Okay, that's their flowers, but we treat them for them and after each harvest we send them 50% of the cannabis to them.

41:03

The other 50%. We will keep it for us to fix our cost. Okay, and these plants are very limited. Okay, we do that for that small community. Okay, and people can choose. If they're not interested in the flowers after they harvest, they can change it in closing. They can change it in oils on the website. It's up to them, it's like a credit.

41:30 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's like a credit.

41:31 - Sia (Host)

Yeah, it's like a credit. Or you can say I want a flower, I'm a smoker, I want each three months my own flowers, to have it at home for free. You buy it just one time and you can every three months get your.

41:44 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Are they allowed to come here?

41:46 - Sia (Host)

Yes, we have every Saturday. Okay, the option to everyone we have planned or not planned, it doesn't matter. Have the opportunity to visit us. Okay, we have that room here. They come, they drink coffee, they can chill with the team and enjoy the time.

42:07 - VO (Host)

We have that every.

42:08 - Sia (Host)

Saturday. That's why I told you this is very important to build a community for us, you know. That's why we have the opportunity. We are very transparent. That's why they have the community Saturday. Come over, check the facility, you're welcome.

42:21 - Michael Williamson (Host)

That's awesome, and do you find that there's a very vocal community here, or is it pretty secretive, like publicly, like? Are they so thankful to be able to come here and meet other people that are buying plants and to share their experience? Or?

42:40 - Sia (Host)

They come. The most of them come here to see indoor facility. That is different from other. Okay, they come to see our growers. Our growers are very. We present them very on Instagram, on TikTok, and their community are small fans of Benny, alex, julius, of these different characters. You know they come, 50% of them coming to see the facility because it's a unique option to see the facility from inside and make some questions. And the other 50% come to see our growers and talk to them how to do that, how to do that. Some of them have a small tent at home and they have homegrown and asked Benny, how can I do that? Have that problem, how can I fix it?

43:32 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Okay, Wow, it's amazing. Yeah, it's very unique. I mean, where did you come up with this idea Like this idea was from the first day.

43:40 - Sia (Host)

We say, if we do that, we want to do that as transparent as possible. Okay, the people have the opportunity to come here, and that idea was before we find that facility. That was the idea. If we make a brand, it has to be open for anyone.

43:59 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Fascinating. I've never heard of anything like that. You guys do a lot of things that nobody else does. Thank you, that's impressive. Yeah, and that's part of the mission, yeah.

44:08 - Sia (Host)

It was one year. Planning. The planning is the most important thing. It's similar If you work on studio layers the planning is the most important thing, the one year that we use for planning the facility, the whole system, everything with the team.

44:24 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Who is like the leader in Europe, whether it's from a black market or traditional market. Is it Spain? Is it Holland? When you think about where are the world's best growers in Europe?

44:41 - Sia (Host)

I would say the best growers at the moment coming from Switzerland because they have a lot of experience from the CBD market. You have great breeders, you have great growers. The problem is with Holland, with a lot of other companies, they don't give a lot of attention of quality. We see a big, big cannabis business coming from Macedonia but if you visit the facilities you see the quality is not similar like Switzerland. Switzerland stays for quality and the people or the mentality that we have in Switzerland is based every time on quality. Of course Switzerland is more expensive than other companies, but the quality is the quality that Switzerland has for the last 200 years. Spain is also a very, very interesting market. A lot of people who start growing on professional level start in Spain, but currently I would say the Switzerland market. They have a lot of experience at the last eight percent.

45:57 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Incredible. In Switzerland you used to be able to buy cannabis a long time ago and then it stopped. You could buy THC because I remember I was telling you I was a kid, I was in high school. We came here on a trip and walked by a store. My buddy was like those are live plants. And he's like kind of walked in the store and couldn't communicate real well. But we were like, can we buy these plants? And they pulled out. I had a whole menu and we got some flour and it was beautiful and it was strong, but it wasn't really talked about. Everyone at that time was like oh, you got Amsterdam or you got to go to Holland. So that was like a surprise to me that Switzerland had this. To me it was like a secret, but everything in Europe was secretive to me as an American traveler, so it was such a nice surprise. I was like, oh, the Swiss, they love cannabis and have a rich history with cannabis.

46:44 - Sia (Host)

Yeah, a lot of younger people who come to Switzerland or visit Switzerland. They never knew that. Not a long time ago it was legal here. So what happened exactly? I don't know what's happened, but I'm sure it will come back. Okay, in a few years Switzerland will legalize it, but I hope and I'm sure Switzerland will legalize it in a better way than Holland. Do it. Okay, because the problem that we have in Holland is they are not any rules. You know, it's not a black market, it's not a legal market, it's something.

47:32 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It doesn't seem like it's grown a whole lot since I was a kid. I came through here to Holland 20 years ago and some of the rules have changed a little bit. It seems like it's gotten stricter a little bit. But yeah, the industry hasn't seemingly grown significantly, which I think is strange, because they were like the leader for a long time, absolutely, and then I don't know what happened. It just kind of plateaued.

47:54 - Sia (Host)

It's the politic problem, Okay. When the politician have no road map, okay, that's the big problem. That's why, yeah, I know a lot of people from Holland and Netherlands. They buy the cannabis illegal to sell it legal. That makes no sense.

48:16 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's a big problem in the States too. New York is like that right now. It's all California.

48:21 - Sia (Host)

but I hope, if Switzerland or Germany will legalize it one day, that they will do it.

48:29 - Michael Williamson (Host)

So tell me a little bit about your. What's a future hold for you? I mean, you plan to expand when it makes financial sense. You have the room to do it, you have the power to do it.

48:42 - Sia (Host)

We start the journey. You see that facility. We have 6,000 square meter, we only using thousand. Okay, and of course we can start to make one more room, one more room and one more room, but I think it's too early for that. Okay, our team have to make the experience with that 6,000 plants, with that two rooms. They have to make the experience with their mother room, with their clone room. After one or two year, to make that experience that we can go to the next step and build more rooms.

49:17

Because a lot of companies in Switzerland, they grew up very, very fast. If you're growing very, very fast, the quality of what you are producing getting lower and lower and lower, because it's very difficult to manage it as big as you are, as more difficult as it to manage. For the next few years, we would like to produce one of the best quality CBD. Maybe we have the opportunity to be one of the first who produced medical for Switzerland or for the Germans or for Austria cannabis. Okay, for the medical cannabis. This is our goal for the next few years. This is one part of grow motion. The second part will be the branding. Okay, that we get a brand in Germany that everyone knows for good quality that everyone knows. This is a Swiss made top quality. You know, this is the two goals we have, one of the medical part and one for the branding.

50:23 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's nice to hear that you want to be first and you also want to be the best, because I find that historically bigger companies they want to be first but like quality is not at the front of what they do, it's an afterthought. And being first is challenging to be early because you have to wait for everybody else a little bit. But there's also advantages by being early because you can establish a market share, you can be that premium brand. If they have no other choice, it at least makes them aware of you. How many people are cultivating in Switzerland like legally?

50:59 - Sia (Host)

I'm not sure, but it's a lot. It's more than we think. Okay, it's a lot. I have no numbers. Is it more than 100? Definitely it's more than 100. But in the last two years the market crashed, okay, and a lot of facility closed yeah, a lot of facility closed. We got the coffee problem Okay, we had all the supply chains broke down and the prices, the CBD prices, crashed down and a lot of suppliers who are not planning long term. They closed. Okay, and I'm sure, definitely more than 100, but you have not more than 10 facilities on that level who can produce high level medical quality. You know, because of course, you can make an area where we can grow some CBD or in a future THC, but you will never get a medical license. Okay, and there are only few facilities. We are one of them. To build it as clean as possible, okay, with all the SOPs to guarantee same quality for a long time.

52:21 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Have you had officials in here from Switzerland, or local officials or politicians or anybody from? Have they come to see this? Something like this Unfortunately not.

52:32 - Sia (Host)

It's a long process. You know, we had some from Swiss medic here. We had some from Swedish university here. We have some doctors here, but unfortunately very difficult to get political people here. Okay, it's an image thing. Okay, in Switzerland it's also legal. But if you want to have a bank account for your company, okay, you not get one. Okay, I asked for six different banks. Okay, we're talking about the bigger banks, not the smaller Of them. Six, only one of them. Give me for cannabis and account. Similar thing we have with the politic. Okay, you can talk with 10, 20 different people If you, if he is a good friend or you know someone or someone who knows someone, he will come over, but it's very different.

53:33 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's interesting that they don't want to learn from you guys. Like if I was in their position, I would want to go to the best facilities because I would want to experience it and understand it more. Especially if you're trying to write laws or lobby for or against something, I would want to understand it. It's interesting that they don't come check it out.

53:52 - Sia (Host)

I don't know why. I don't know why they don't do it. Maybe it's too early, maybe they have another reason, I don't know. Okay, but we try our best to have the best quality and to find a way to switch in the next few months, few years, to medical.

54:15 - Michael Williamson (Host)

It's hard to be that patient. You know you're like oh, it could be a few months, it could be a few years.

54:20 - Sia (Host)

There is no a book where you can read you have to first do that and that and that you have all checks, then you can make THC. The European market is far away from having exact rules how you have to do it to get confirmation for THC.

54:43 - Michael Williamson (Host)

Yeah well, we are here to support you, we're excited to support you, we're grateful to be a part of your journey and yeah, we're I mean to say it again we're really impressed. A lot of people can grow cannabis, but a lot of people can't grow cannabis. Well, and you start to add in these other equations, like you have with triple stack, and it's not an easy execution.

55:05 - Sia (Host)

You see that facility, you see that 6,000 square meter. Of course it's not a big challenge to build one more room, the next room. You see, we have the PIPs here, we have the LED's here. Already we have everything here ready To make the next room. It takes a few months because the planning is already done, the confirmation is already there, but I'm sure it's too early. Okay, it's too early, let's do it step by step but do it correct.

55:38 - Michael Williamson (Host)

That's amazing. I wish more people would think the way that you think. Thank you, congratulations.

55:42 - VO (Host)

Thank you very much.

55:44 - Michael Williamson (Host)

I really appreciate this time together. Yeah, absolutely blown away and excited to be here and enjoy this culture. And you know, when I think of Switzerland, I think of like precision and engineering and high quality, and so, you know, you, you are living it right now. Hopefully, everybody around you and your community is very proud of what you guys are building here. Thank you, yeah, thank you All right. Well, next broadcast you can do it in the States, of course, all right.

56:12 - VO (Host)

Thanks for listening to Cultivation Elevated. Full show notes for each episode, which includes a summary, key takeaways, quotes and any resources mentioned are available at piphorticulturecom forward slash podcast. Be sure to follow and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and if you're enjoying the content and getting value from these episodes, please leave us a rating and a review and rate this podcastcom forward slash cultivation elevated. We'll be sure to read these out on future episodes.