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The Clubhouse "gold rush," gated content, and humanized marketing | Scott Stratten from UnMarketing
Episode 1 • 28th April 2021 • Demand Gen Chat • Chili Piper
00:00:00 00:43:29

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Kaylee:

Hey everyone.

Kaylee:

And welcome.

Kaylee:

Or if you're listening to

Kaylee:

these chronologically, welcome

Kaylee:

back to demand gen chat.

Kaylee:

I'm your host Kaley Edmondson, and we

Kaylee:

are joined today with Scott Stratton.

Kaylee:

I'm super excited to have you.

Kaylee:

Thank you for joining us.

Scott:

Uh, not as excited

Scott:

as I am to be here.

Scott:

Let's do this.

Kaylee:

Let's do it.

Kaylee:

So for those listening, who might not

Kaylee:

already know and follow Scott, let me try

Kaylee:

my very best to give you a proper intro.

Kaylee:

Scott is the creator and co-mastermind

Kaylee:

behind the brand UnMarketing.

Kaylee:

He has co-authored six

Kaylee:

best-selling books with.

Kaylee:

Partner and better half Alison,

Kaylee:

um, and is the host that you know,

Kaylee:

and love behind UnPodcast the

Kaylee:

marketing podcast for the fed up?

Kaylee:

What have I missed?

Scott:

No that's that you summed

Scott:

it up pretty much right there.

Scott:

Uh, and then, uh, five kids combined,

Scott:

uh, two dogs and three cats.

Scott:

Who's counting.

Kaylee:

I love it so much.

Kaylee:

So Scott, I have so many questions

Kaylee:

that I want to pick your brain on.

Kaylee:

So marketing now and in the future,

Kaylee:

I think that with everything

Kaylee:

that's happened around the world

Kaylee:

in the last year, marketing is

Kaylee:

under more pressure now than ever.

Kaylee:

I feel like all of these changes were

Kaylee:

kind of coming to a head before the

Kaylee:

pandemic started happening, but I think

Kaylee:

the pandemic has just kind of escalated.

Kaylee:

Um, this motion that's

Kaylee:

happening within marketing.

Kaylee:

And I just want to get your honest take.

Kaylee:

I don't know any time where

Kaylee:

you've ever shared something.

Kaylee:

That's not your honest take but the

Kaylee:

stage is yours, what's trending?

Kaylee:

What things are marketers doing right now?

Kaylee:

That is a total waste of time.

Scott:

I guess I assume some

Scott:

marketers are gonna listen to this.

Scott:

So I was going to say, I'm

Scott:

going to be careful what I

Scott:

say, but I, I, why start now?

Scott:

Honestly, why start now at this point?

Scott:

Um, one of my biggest problems in

Scott:

marketing and it's not like now it's

Scott:

always is that a lot of times in

Scott:

marketing, we have a, we have a badge of

Scott:

honor, uh, by being first to something

Scott:

or new and we're going to show it

Scott:

and, and a couple of reasons for that.

Scott:

One of the biggest mistakes is that

Scott:

it's individual versus brands, so

Scott:

individually you love a platform, a

Scott:

tool, whatever it's going to be, but

Scott:

for the brand, is that the right thing?

Scott:

And a lot of the times I find

Scott:

this, trying to take that square

Scott:

peg in a round hole for brand and

Scott:

say, we should be on clubhouse.

Scott:

We should be doing this.

Scott:

We should be doing this because

Scott:

it's new because something is new is

Scott:

never a reason to use something ever.

Scott:

Okay.

Scott:

It's new.

Scott:

Great.

Scott:

But also with something new,

Scott:

there can be issues as well.

Scott:

And you have to take the time to

Scott:

learn these things, to find them.

Scott:

And I really, really encourage

Scott:

any marketer out there.

Scott:

I don't even care.

Scott:

What vertical you do is that you go

Scott:

and try it yourself incognito, whatever

Scott:

it's going to be, get in there and

Scott:

understand the mechanics of something.

Scott:

I see so many brands rushing to

Scott:

something like clubhouse and saying,

Scott:

this is what we're going to do.

Scott:

This is the new, it's

Scott:

the, it's the land rush.

Scott:

Right.

Scott:

The land rush and the gold rush, right?

Scott:

So we want to grab our spot, grab

Scott:

our property, do this, and then

Scott:

we want to be the ones we want to

Scott:

be the big ones in front of it.

Scott:

Is that for the brand though.

Scott:

And I know there's two, two things, that

Scott:

can happen at the same time, a marketer

Scott:

for a brand like yourself and a brand

Scott:

also, you're also a personal brand and

Scott:

it depends on the, constraints that the

Scott:

brand gives you as their employee, but

Scott:

marketers are also a lot of personal

Scott:

brands and that line blurs a lot.

Scott:

To the point that we have to be careful

Scott:

because what's good for the brand

Scott:

is not always good for the marketer.

Scott:

What's good for the marketers

Scott:

and always good for the brand.

Scott:

And so rushing to these places because

Scott:

they're new because we can, we have

Scott:

to go back to Jurassic Park, you know,

Scott:

and just because we can, we never

Scott:

thought that, you know, should we?

Scott:

We only have a certain amount of time.

Scott:

I don't know any marketer right

Scott:

now in any brand that is like

Scott:

I have 20 hours a week open.

Scott:

Like I literally have

Scott:

20 hours a week open.

Scott:

What can I add to the plate?

Scott:

Because every time we add a new

Scott:

tool to our toolbox and then use it.

Scott:

Okay.

Scott:

That'll take time resources and focus away

Scott:

from a current set of tools and platforms

Scott:

and focus and focus is the lost art form

Scott:

of marketing to me is focusing and saying,

Scott:

look, if we're doing strategic planning

Scott:

and saying this quarter, we're doing this.

Scott:

And then clubhouse comes along

Scott:

and you have an all hands on deck.

Scott:

We're going to be over here.

Scott:

Well then what goes away?

Scott:

40 hours a week or 50 hours, whatever

Scott:

you have each individual is doing.

Scott:

And if they're all working

Scott:

full tilt on stuff.

Scott:

And then you add a whole new thing either.

Scott:

You're going to do it poorly because

Scott:

you're not going to have a lot of

Scott:

focus and time on it, or it's going

Scott:

to take away from something else.

Scott:

But you haven't changed the KPIs.

Scott:

You haven't changed all these things

Scott:

where it would have been 10 hours a

Scott:

week with this person working on this

Scott:

platform have been taken away from it.

Scott:

You can't, we can't be jumping ship

Scott:

every two months onto something.

Scott:

We've got to focus on it, right.

Scott:

It honors our audience and honors

Scott:

the platform and an honors,

Scott:

our team and our employees.

Kaylee:

It's really about your audience.

Kaylee:

So even if you think it's like the new

Kaylee:

shiny toy and here you are running to

Kaylee:

clubhouse because everyone else is doing,

Kaylee:

and a peer pressure game That doesn't mean

Kaylee:

that your audience is there So if you've

Kaylee:

built an audience on LinkedIn or Twitter

Kaylee:

or wherever then you're like Hey friends

Kaylee:

come join me on clubhouse And that's just

Kaylee:

a really Frustrating experience for your

Kaylee:

audience the people who are consuming

Kaylee:

your content where you're at and want

Kaylee:

you know want to listen Also clubhouse

Kaylee:

is super frustrating I've yet to join a

Kaylee:

successful uh clubhouse event I feel like

Kaylee:

it's all just like the top you know the

Kaylee:

five people who can speak the loudest

Kaylee:

rise to the top of the app and they just

Kaylee:

sit there and talk the entire time And

Kaylee:

you've got a hundred awkward followers

Kaylee:

like listening in below on these people's

Kaylee:

conversation And yeah So I think yeah

Kaylee:

I agree with you Clubhouse like the new

Kaylee:

shiny thing but it's not very successful

Kaylee:

And I mean it might be successful

Kaylee:

for some brands but that doesn't mean

Kaylee:

that you have to do it just cause you

Kaylee:

know your neighbor told you to do it

Scott:

It's high school talk radio to me

Scott:

honestly it's like a talk radio show in

Scott:

high school and people are jockeying for

Scott:

position and people were complaining and

Scott:

texting people Why didn't you make me with

Scott:

a microphone and bring me on the floor And

Scott:

I just saw that and learned it I started

Scott:

reading on a couple of blog posts I'm

Scott:

like Oh no thank you No thank you And I

Scott:

I like I I am confident in my abilities

Scott:

and speaking and I know I have a A radio

Scott:

style voice And I know I have the tone

Scott:

to be able to do these type of things and

Scott:

people like it's so perfect And I'm like

Scott:

no thank you Because that Clubhouse one

Scott:

of my big issues with social media And for

Scott:

those that know me know social media is

Scott:

my world how I got known So I get started

Scott:

I'm about our main pillars are community

Scott:

authenticity and integrity And that's

Scott:

all about community is all you know for

Scott:

us as a virtual law which is social and

Scott:

forums And in that world and people say

Scott:

well You know you've gotta be on here

Scott:

And and and one of my biggest problems

Scott:

with social when in the past couple of

Scott:

years has been expiring content you know

Scott:

making stories for Instagram or Tik TOK

Scott:

or or Snapchat where you're we're we're

Scott:

driving content marketers into the ground

Scott:

with work with content that's gone in a

Scott:

day with clubhouse It's not even gone in

Scott:

a day It's gone when you're done speaking

Scott:

it's radio It's literally radio without

Scott:

the training And without that without

Scott:

the structure And there's a reason why

Scott:

there's structure and radio is the reason

Scott:

why they do these things and and talk

Scott:

about expiring content It has no shelf

Scott:

life at all At least 24 hours was 24

Scott:

hours back you know back in the day And

Scott:

by the end of the day I mean a year ago

Scott:

you know so I don't I just don't it Look

Scott:

if you like it and it look if the marketer

Scott:

right now is listening and they're like

Scott:

well I like clubhouse Good My opinion of

Scott:

clubhouse should not affect your opinion

Scott:

of clubhouse and you use it individually

Scott:

but for the brand is it the right place

Scott:

And the answer can be yes but just don't

Scott:

make a default Yes because it's new

Kaylee:

exactly And that goes into this

Kaylee:

motion too just around like playbooks

Kaylee:

right I've never not joined a new company

Kaylee:

where the company is like cool What's your

Kaylee:

demand gen playbook or what's your B2B

Kaylee:

playbook And that's In my opinion that

Kaylee:

is not the thing There is no playbook

Kaylee:

There isn't one every brand is unique

Kaylee:

Every voice is different All of their

Kaylee:

audiences that you're building are going

Kaylee:

to be different and unique to you And

Kaylee:

there isn't an end all be all playbook

Kaylee:

And I think that that falls like nicely

Kaylee:

into what you're saying about clubhouse

Kaylee:

too Right It's just like a box that

Kaylee:

somebody is wanting you to check to say

Kaylee:

Oh we're on LinkedIn we're on Twitter

Kaylee:

Now we're on clubhouse Check the box

Kaylee:

but that's not really how it works

Scott:

No And if you want to be early

Scott:

adopters though and I I understand that

Scott:

And and I get that you know for me I was

Scott:

on LinkedIn and Oh three um you know I

Scott:

was at uh and then I was on rise.com and

Scott:

Oh four and Twitter and Oh eight And I

Scott:

get it but that's a young person's game

Scott:

you know I'm just an old now and I'm

Scott:

just like I'm not going to keep up with

Scott:

the Joneses doing this type of stuff And

Scott:

uh it's But if it works for you because

Scott:

we look at different things you look at

Scott:

things like Instagram where it's a visual

Scott:

medium you look at clubhouse was an audio

Scott:

medium you know all these and there's you

Scott:

know uh posts and writing is is a written

Scott:

medium And it's looking at saying what

Scott:

what where's your talent Where can you

Scott:

best thrive at We talk about that there's

Scott:

comfort zones and breaking out of those

Scott:

but it doesn't mean you have to always

Scott:

be and as a marketer you don't have to

Scott:

be an incredible writer and a incredible

Scott:

host of a of a show and a talker And

Scott:

this and this we don't have to try to be

Scott:

the Jack of all trades in these types of

Scott:

things And you mentioned playbook and I

Scott:

really want to Um um look at a point for

Scott:

one second which is that like the only

Scott:

playbook that matters is your bosses right

Scott:

The only one that was your clients which

Scott:

is like what Because I can go off all I

Scott:

want talking about these things I don't

Scott:

have a boss I'm not reporting somebody

Scott:

Alison and I make the decisions for this

Scott:

company and that's that's it We don't

Scott:

get clients We don't but I don't have to

Scott:

answer those types of things If your boss

Scott:

or your client wants the brand to be on

Scott:

clubhouse Okay You can make your argument

Scott:

You can state your case and they're like

Scott:

we want to do it then Okay Then you learn

Scott:

to do it better but it's always whoever's

Scott:

signing the check is that matters I

Scott:

always rant about vanity metrics and how

Scott:

they uh you've heard me rant about it

Scott:

probably way too many times And the point

Scott:

is though if you are who you're reporting

Scott:

to whether it's client or boss does like

Scott:

vanity metrics then you give them to

Scott:

them but understand the proper metrics

Scott:

are what are really driving your brand

Kaylee:

Yeah Your playbook is probably

Kaylee:

most often defined by whoever's paying

Kaylee:

you which is fair Um but at the end of the

Kaylee:

day too I think it's part of marketing's

Kaylee:

job to you know like um for instance right

Kaylee:

now I report directly to our CEO and I

Kaylee:

think that it's half at least half of my

Kaylee:

job if not more to market internally to

Kaylee:

him and to our sales team and the rest of

Kaylee:

our marketing team what it is we're doing

Kaylee:

and why Um I think oftentimes a lot of

Kaylee:

marketers just put on their marketing hat

Kaylee:

and think I am marketing externally I'm

Kaylee:

here to get prospects new business close

Kaylee:

one revenue all of those things And yes

Kaylee:

those are all important But at the end of

Kaylee:

the day too I spend at least 50% of my day

Kaylee:

Educating and marketing internally And I

Kaylee:

think that's part of it right If they come

Kaylee:

to you and say Hey your playbook is this

Kaylee:

and these are your whack KPIs that you

Kaylee:

need to be judged off of because I said

Kaylee:

so then that's also on you to own your

Kaylee:

own destiny and say no look I hear you but

Kaylee:

there's a better way And here's the way

Scott:

You you hit on that Kaylee like

Scott:

that's something that is just it's

Scott:

something that resonates with me to my

Scott:

core which is marketers Think it's all

Scott:

like external and it's not And it used

Scott:

to be you know it's like I used to say

Scott:

psychology was HR is internal marketings

Scott:

external it's all human psychology but

Scott:

your first set of customers for anything

Scott:

for a new product for a launch or whatever

Scott:

it's going to be is the company That's

Scott:

your first group of people If they are not

Scott:

bought in to it Everything in marketing

Scott:

becomes harder everything becomes harder

Scott:

And if you internally market first and

Scott:

understand it and getting but I don't mean

Scott:

on the surface I don't mean as a token I

Scott:

mean internally bringing stakeholders in

Scott:

early on in the process and explaining

Scott:

what you're doing and showing what you're

Scott:

doing getting feedback from that Then

Scott:

when you turn it on when it's finished

Scott:

You show and roll it out and and and

Scott:

show people and bring them into it They

Scott:

feel like they do have ownership of

Scott:

that because we're literally when you're

Scott:

marketing somebody you're marketing them

Scott:

You're marketing as part of that as well

Scott:

And that's a huge internal marketing

Scott:

is such an overlooked thing and it

Scott:

should be the first step of everything

Kaylee:

Yeah I mean it really should be

Kaylee:

especially So like our scenario is that

Kaylee:

marketing came into A company that was

Kaylee:

already existing and working and operating

Kaylee:

and successfully growing without marketing

Kaylee:

Right And so I think we had to combat

Kaylee:

that almost twice as hard because they

Kaylee:

were like Oh you're the new kids on the

Kaylee:

block What are you really going to do for

Kaylee:

us Like eh I don't know is this going to

Kaylee:

cause more friction Like let's talk about

Kaylee:

it It was a lot of that Right And so it's

Kaylee:

yeah it is It's like this game this real

Kaylee:

game of team building and understanding

Kaylee:

that like We're just here to help you

Kaylee:

do your job better And here are all

Kaylee:

the things and here's how we can do it

Scott:

And build the company and then

Scott:

grow the company larger And that's you're

Scott:

always going to have friction Whenever

Scott:

there's changes Friction is one of the

Scott:

rules of the universe I've never we

Scott:

will spend so much more time and effort

Scott:

resisting change and we will to embrace

Scott:

it We always I always said on stage that

Scott:

disruption is simply a change without time

Scott:

to resist it That's what it is And and

Scott:

so when you come into something you will

Scott:

get that friction because you can have

Scott:

budgets feel threatened You could have

Scott:

you know head count feel threatened You

Scott:

could have um autonomy feel threatened

Scott:

and and and having that in there and

Scott:

understanding that and then making sure

Scott:

that that those As we Mark it as a sales

Scott:

and marketing 101 of overcoming objections

Scott:

externally to our customer base We should

Scott:

have that list internally as well What

Scott:

our internal objections to this through

Scott:

and how do we tackle those things It's

Scott:

such a forgotten but not even forgotten

Scott:

It was barely done before that We need

Scott:

to look at those objections internally

Scott:

as well

Scott:

first And then it goes so much

Scott:

smoother both in a B2B and a B2C world

Kaylee:

And speaking of sales and

Kaylee:

marketing 101 I want to dive into

Kaylee:

UnMarketing So for anybody that is

Kaylee:

not familiar with UnMarketing or the

Kaylee:

concept behind it the philosophy that

Kaylee:

you and Alison have been preaching

Kaylee:

for years like what is your high-level

Kaylee:

snippet on UnMarketing what's your take

Scott:

people who have not

Scott:

heard of UnMarketing how dare

Kaylee:

Yeah I know What are they

Kaylee:

doing They need to be listening

Kaylee:

follow all the things but

Scott:

Really sums it up is there's

Scott:

just we just have one line that sums up

Scott:

everything with UnMarketing is if you

Scott:

believe business is built on relationships

Scott:

make building them your business

Kaylee:

And guys been preaching

Kaylee:

that though for how long and how

Kaylee:

many people still aren't doing that

Scott:

Most of them

Kaylee:

And why And why is that

Kaylee:

Why are people not on this train

Scott:

Kaylee it's that

Scott:

because relationships take time

Kaylee:

people don't have time

Scott:

it I don't buy that I don't buy its

Scott:

not they don't have time I buy that They

Scott:

don't want to spend the time and it's not

Scott:

necessarily the individual So let's give

Scott:

an example is somebody comes into here

Scott:

I'll give you a perfect example Last is

Scott:

before the pandemic So a year ago I'm at

Scott:

home where I am right now I'm in my uh my

Scott:

robe My house coat My Caesar's palace has

Scott:

coat that my wonderful wife somehow bought

Scott:

in Vegas at Caesar's palace and then snuck

Scott:

home And I didn't even realize it how you

Scott:

bring an entire robe home I don't know

Scott:

but um I'm in my robe I'm not looking as

Scott:

pretty as I do right now as you're looking

Scott:

at And uh the hair is down The beard is

Scott:

flowing I look like a roadie You know

Scott:

for Metallica and there's a our doorbell

Scott:

rings So the dogs go bananas which has

Scott:

all these wonderful when I'm you know in

Scott:

the morning And I opened the door there

Scott:

was a gentleman in a suit and he looks

Scott:

up and he's from a financial investing a

Scott:

fairly famous wander and he's like hello

Scott:

and looks up and goes Oh and I'm just this

Scott:

thing is just standing in the doorway I'm

Scott:

like yes he's like I'm from this company

Scott:

here I'm just wondering you know if

Scott:

you're looking for financial advice and

Scott:

I'm like how do you think What's supposed

Scott:

to happen next am I supposed to invite

Scott:

you into my home Put some pants on and

Scott:

then we're going to talk about my bank

Scott:

account Like how do you think this is

Scott:

going to And they're like well no we and

Scott:

they're just door knocking which is fine

Scott:

in the eighties You know that's how a lot

Scott:

of things were sold in the sixties and

Scott:

seventies and they traveling salespeople

Scott:

right They're selling vacuums and

Scott:

Tupperware and knives sets and all these

Scott:

things Yeah But there's a lot of different

Scott:

ways now to do that And if you want to

Scott:

build relationships and build yourself a

Scott:

position in front of a target market it's

Scott:

going to take time You can do sessions

Scott:

in lunch and learns and get articles out

Scott:

there and network and go to chamber of

Scott:

commerce But companies don't bring in the

Scott:

new recruits like that They're like go

Scott:

pound the pavement Here's a phone number

Scott:

list Go call them So the companies are

Scott:

impatient It's not even necessarily the

Scott:

individuals I don't usually have a problem

Scott:

with an individual cold calling me Well

Scott:

sorry I do But my my anger is directed

Scott:

towards people who are forcing them to

Scott:

do that The majority of people don't want

Scott:

to do that I don't think the more I want

Scott:

to interrupt somebody's day and try to

Scott:

force them to buy something from them

Scott:

We have so much more information these

Scott:

days we have so much more access to that

Scott:

One of the things that we use is called

Scott:

the sales cloud which is like 60% of of

Scott:

buying decisions and B2B the decisions of

Scott:

60% of along the way of being made before

Scott:

they ever reach out to a vendor So if

Scott:

you're just calling smiling and dialing

Scott:

randomly trying to cold call these people

Scott:

Well I've already been 60% of my work and

Scott:

you're going to be left out of that And

Scott:

then that's how I find that cloud is about

Scott:

information and blog posts and conferences

Scott:

and videos And if you're not doing any of

Scott:

those things you're left out of that So

Scott:

then you call me and you're at your lowest

Scott:

point of leverage You're at the lowest

Scott:

point of trust and no relationship And

Scott:

you're just saying Hey Hey buy from me and

Scott:

it's buy or goodbye And that's not human

Scott:

That's not kind That's that that's how I

Scott:

do business people I never ever sat down

Scott:

here and saying I wish the SEO specialist

Scott:

would phone me I just wish they'd randomly

Scott:

call me so I could see if they're doing

Scott:

I wish I could get another spam piece

Scott:

from an SEO company saying we're going

Scott:

to rank you high on page one And I can't

Scott:

find them on page 100 No it's just it's

Scott:

it's just this way of we don't want to

Scott:

take that nine w time We just want to do

Scott:

snap and necks and cash and checks so we

Scott:

can get to the Catalina wine mixer Like

Scott:

we're just trying to do these things and

Scott:

saying this is how it's supposed to be

Scott:

done I don't buy that Kaylee I don't that

Scott:

with the combine of incredible ways to

Scott:

do online advertising these ways and the

Scott:

way we can track and we can target and

Scott:

focus and all of these tools And you're

Scott:

telling me That you got to interrupt My

Scott:

day is the best way to get me to know like

Scott:

and trust you Not a chance not a chance

Scott:

So you see that see that tangent I just

Scott:

went on there and you just triggered me

Scott:

So I apologize for that but it's so true

Kaylee:

No My favorite version of you is

Kaylee:

when you are triggered you are just when

Kaylee:

the filter comes down and you were just

Kaylee:

spewing the truth that's what I'm here for

Kaylee:

Um so no I appreciate your brain That's

Kaylee:

what that's what I think that we all need

Kaylee:

to like adapt to That's like going back to

Kaylee:

my original thing about marketing now and

Kaylee:

in the future I think that we went through

Kaylee:

this weird Wave in marketing as a whole

Kaylee:

And you know if anybody that is listening

Kaylee:

was not doing this then you were ahead

Kaylee:

of the curve But I think marketing as a

Kaylee:

whole went through this weird wave where

Kaylee:

it was like Oh we have all of this All of

Kaylee:

these insights and this intent data and

Kaylee:

like a Gates we need to gate everything

Kaylee:

All the content that we're producing is

Kaylee:

just the greatest thing we've ever seen

Kaylee:

So it's totally worth the gate We have

Kaylee:

to do it And it's like Oh we have to get

Kaylee:

your email for everything so that we can

Kaylee:

follow up with you on with these random

Kaylee:

nurture emails that might eventually put

Kaylee:

you into this random funnel and convince

Kaylee:

you to buy from us But it's like they get

Kaylee:

you know they're on email nurture number

Kaylee:

three after downloading some random guide

Kaylee:

And it's like What do I know about this

Kaylee:

company Why who are you What are you

Kaylee:

like What do I actually know about you

Kaylee:

The people you know the people that make

Kaylee:

up this brand not just some random email

Kaylee:

nurture that's like we can help you with

Kaylee:

this dah dah dah get a demo today And I

Kaylee:

think the brands today that are really

Kaylee:

pulling ahead and are standing out in this

Kaylee:

super noisy space are the brands that are

Kaylee:

not doing any of that And we just need

Kaylee:

to get on board Like I think that Stop

Kaylee:

gating your eat Stop gating your content

Kaylee:

It's not gold Like there's nothing great

Kaylee:

behind it Stop

Kaylee:

stop sto p Spamming people like don't

Kaylee:

show up to my door while I'm in my robe

Kaylee:

Absolutely not You get kudos to you for

Kaylee:

even answering the door Cause I would

Kaylee:

have been like yeah you can wait Hold on

Scott:

The great thing for me though

Scott:

Kaylee that every business grew up in

Scott:

marketing is content So I welcome this

Scott:

stuff you know I w I want the person

Scott:

to to knock on my door to try to pitch

Scott:

me to invest my all my money with a guy

Scott:

standing on my front porch I love it It

Scott:

gets because it's material for us We never

Scott:

run out of material for the show or for

Scott:

the books and and the difference And you

Scott:

you you touched on this um uh you were

Scott:

just saying is that there's a there's a

Scott:

part where I do feel as a somewhat of a

Scott:

tide shifting of this kind of transparency

Scott:

or authenticity that and those both those

Scott:

words have been bludgeoned to death in our

Scott:

industry the wrong way at least for myself

Scott:

personally and I can only speak for myself

Scott:

personally but looking at Uh in the past

Scott:

year I've re we've redone Everything for

Scott:

the company We've changed uh entire sites

Scott:

and site hosts uh email service providers

Scott:

podcast hosts everything And I went

Scott:

through it because I wanted to go from

Scott:

pontificator back to print practitioner

Scott:

And so I did change everything again and

Scott:

going through all the tools the tools

Scott:

that I chose to use um and go and use was

Scott:

that almost all of them I got to know the

Scott:

founders Of the companies but I didn't

Scott:

know them personally Here's the thing It

Scott:

wasn't like Scott and Unmarketing And I

Scott:

know when people marketing I don't know

Scott:

any of the people we signed up for was

Scott:

stuff with I just read their blog posts

Scott:

and looked at what they want they want

Scott:

for the company and also what they stand

Scott:

for And that has been a big separation

Scott:

I think over the past 10 at least to me

Scott:

over the past five years has been this

Scott:

much more push of Okay Where do you

Scott:

stand What do you believe in what are the

Scott:

important things to this company Not just

Scott:

that this company does ABC And that's a

Scott:

great opportunity for companies that have

Scott:

those kind of morals and principles and

Scott:

not a great opportunity for companies

Scott:

that don't I don't think again that's

Scott:

a very biased statement to me because

Scott:

I only see what I want to see but I do

Scott:

feel there's a little bit more of a trend

Scott:

of of humanizing more a lot of brands

Scott:

especially B2B ones Cause they they aren't

Kaylee:

Especially for B2B brands It's

Kaylee:

like if your founder is now currently

Kaylee:

still your CEO or still has a say in

Kaylee:

this brand this is your opportunity to

Kaylee:

tell that story Right And especially

Kaylee:

like for you and Alison like this is

Kaylee:

y'all's brand and that is how you bring

Kaylee:

your brand to life That's why your brand

Kaylee:

has so much life because your brand is

Kaylee:

just a An extension of you both of y'all

Kaylee:

Um and I think that somewhere along the

Kaylee:

road specifically B2B because that is

Kaylee:

what I can speak to I have no experience

Kaylee:

in B2C but in B2B somehow we became this

Kaylee:

like very corporate tie on polished like

Kaylee:

robotic talking thing And it's like no

Kaylee:

like we're still marketing to People

Kaylee:

like I'm still sending this email to you

Kaylee:

at the end of the day and you're going

Kaylee:

to read it and it needs to move you in

Kaylee:

some type of way You need to feel like

Kaylee:

Hey this is from a person Like I used

Kaylee:

to send out an email today and it was a

Kaylee:

mass email to a couple thousand people

Kaylee:

but it's just like hi there but no no

Kaylee:

more of that Like that's not working

Kaylee:

for people And so you know I just send

Kaylee:

it out like just like I would have sent

Kaylee:

you an email for this podcast Like Hey

Kaylee:

what's up we're doing this thing that da

Kaylee:

da da Here's why you should care Let me

Kaylee:

know Reply like reply to me a real human

Kaylee:

And let me know if you care about this

Scott:

Yeah it's funny We just had so

Scott:

um the ESP we use for it uh convert

Scott:

kit And so they just sold Like two days

Scott:

ago they got they got bought and uh uh

Scott:

Nathan Barry I believe his name is the

Scott:

founder and followed him on Twitter for

Scott:

years And that's the thing You never know

Scott:

who's following you You never know who's

Scott:

watching You never know who's listening

Scott:

Um which is how we got our the our on

Scott:

podcast sponsorship with with Emma I was

Scott:

we didn't even know the VP It was a show

Scott:

listener You never know who's observing

Scott:

these things And so I followed Nathan for

Scott:

years I always loved his content And so

Scott:

when the time came for us to shift stuff

Scott:

from one place to another I'm like okay

Scott:

You're right in my wheelhouse You're right

Scott:

there And that's that is actually the

Scott:

definition of on marketing and marketing

Scott:

is staying in front of your target

Scott:

audience So when they have a need for your

Scott:

product or service they choose you without

Scott:

without hesitation That was the original

Scott:

definition of on marketing 20 years

Scott:

And that's exactly what happened with

Scott:

something like convert kit So I saw that

Scott:

And then so when it's sold I feel like

Scott:

I know Nathan I don't know like we I've

Scott:

deemed him on Twitter twice Like I don't

Scott:

know I'm not trying to say I know this

Scott:

I'm not that type of guy in Mark and be

Scott:

like I know this founder I don't know this

Scott:

founder I don't know And I I just we've

Scott:

talked a bit on Twitter I was extremely

Scott:

happy for them when they sold But every

Scott:

time before you know years ago if you're

Scott:

using any kind of product you know what's

Scott:

the number one thing marketers will think

Scott:

in my experience when a product gets sold

Scott:

to another company they're like they're

Scott:

going to break it You know they're going

Scott:

to break it and then it's not going to

Scott:

work It's like when a big company absorbs

Scott:

a small one eventually what made them

Scott:

great goes away and not for this it was

Scott:

like I was I'm like yeah man get paid I

Scott:

was excited for them And I just that's not

Scott:

a usual reaction for a B2B company as a

Scott:

user being excited for the founder because

Scott:

they saw this It's like okay well they got

Scott:

their exit or they eventually will have

Scott:

their exit and now it's going to break

Scott:

So let's see what else is it I'm excited

Scott:

for them That was I was a great thing And

Scott:

that's how they cause their voice was like

Scott:

that And there he was like that and the

Scott:

employees were like that but it wasn't

Scott:

just cause I don't believe in just founder

Scott:

facing Type of companies I mean that

Scott:

the is like look our company is our team

Kaylee:

yeah

Scott:

and here they are And and always

Scott:

and always heightening them and always

Scott:

promoting them outwardly And that is

Scott:

because what happens is that helps the

Scott:

people who work there get create their

Scott:

own brand and then they become more wanted

Scott:

And maybe they actually end up going

Scott:

somewhere else and getting a different

Scott:

job But at the end of the day that's

Scott:

great That's great because you're helping

Scott:

the individuals and just like you and

Scott:

I were talking before we were recording

Scott:

When you get to know people and they go

Scott:

elsewhere in a especially in a positive

Scott:

scenario that's just a great relationship

Scott:

that continues on even if they've

Scott:

left your company Right I love that

Kaylee:

Back to the point around

Kaylee:

UnMarketing and what you all believe

Kaylee:

in and stand for and are trying to

Kaylee:

You know convince others like this is

Kaylee:

the way is about is the Piper trying

Kaylee:

I know I'm here We're trying we'll try

Kaylee:

together But like is this motion of

Kaylee:

authenticity and it's not always about

Kaylee:

scale and growth and how many more calls

Kaylee:

can we make today and how many more

Kaylee:

emails can we send and how many more

Kaylee:

of these things right I think we're in

Kaylee:

this world of like quantity over quality

Kaylee:

and we need to reprioritize quality

Scott:

Right I I said um uh years ago

Scott:

Uh we were sitting so my you know our

Scott:

our revenue base before the pandemic was

Scott:

entirely based on large indoor events

Scott:

And uh so you know me doing keynotes at

Scott:

conferences I do 60 a year or give or

Scott:

take and anyways happy to do that forever

Scott:

And we were sitting on a patio I was

Scott:

in Frankfurt Germany How great how cool

Scott:

is this that I got to get paid to go to

Scott:

Germany and speak And we're sitting on a

Scott:

patio with schnitzel and a Stein of beer

Scott:

because we had to do every stereotypical

Scott:

thing possible when we went there and I

Scott:

was . Sitting across from another and I

Scott:

had hit a a big milestone in speaking I

Scott:

had a certain revenue threshold of the

Scott:

year It's kind of a a vanity rung that

Scott:

every reaches for And uh my friend looked

Scott:

at me there was speaker looked at me

Scott:

who's a founder You know who's the one

Scott:

who does startups and everything else And

Scott:

he's like so what's next and puts his arm

Scott:

up like this kind of this you know keep

Scott:

going up and up and up And I just took

Scott:

his arm and I smacked it down So it would

Scott:

be horizontal And I'm like I don't have

Scott:

the endless pursuit of more in me I've

Scott:

never had the endless pursuit of more

Scott:

which is just discontinue growing just

Scott:

because endless growth without any rhyme

Scott:

or reason to it that that's all we're

Scott:

going to do I don't recommend companies

Scott:

you know lose money I don't I'm not saying

Scott:

go down Right I think but I'm saying when

Scott:

all you're doing is is just just growth

Scott:

growth growth growth growth growth growth

Scott:

It's exhausting It's exhausting because

Scott:

what happens is your target For 2020 is at

Scott:

this level and the team busts their humps

Scott:

and they really really try and they work

Scott:

their their butts off to do it And they

Scott:

finally hit that goal on December 30th

Scott:

whatever they meet And you just like yay

Scott:

And we're going to do an offsite and yeah

Scott:

yeah In the next year that peak that one

Scott:

you just almost killed yourself to get to

Scott:

becomes the floor And now the next year

Scott:

is like now we've got to go again and we

Scott:

just end up burning people that way And I

Scott:

just don't personally ever have that where

Scott:

I look for it and say so it's not just

Scott:

about growth because when growth comes

Scott:

when with growth with a company especially

Scott:

in B2B growth also means growing the

Scott:

company head count wise and individual

Scott:

wise And as you grow you change the

Scott:

company There's no way around it Really

Scott:

You just A five person Company is never

Scott:

going to be like a 500 person company It

Scott:

just doesn't work that way And so when

Scott:

you only have endless growth you're not

Scott:

you're not really looking for the growing

Scott:

pains And that can be a real problem

Scott:

when it comes to especially when you

Scott:

have a company that built on authenticity

Scott:

and the team and the culture you've got

Scott:

to have checks and balances in there

Scott:

Otherwise the endless growth turns into

Scott:

an unrecognizable company after you've

Scott:

10 times a year your revenues eventually

Kaylee:

You've had the opportunity over

Kaylee:

your career to work with so many different

Kaylee:

brands Do you see any type of trend in

Kaylee:

that typical break point where it's like

Kaylee:

okay you've lost it You've lost who you

Kaylee:

are You've lost your voice Some like is

Kaylee:

there a thing or is it always different

Scott:

It's almost always different for

Scott:

me and I I'm always taking it from the

Scott:

outside so I'm not always in I'm not in

Scott:

those teams necessarily but I have always

Scott:

found that It's the breakneck growth

Scott:

It's the speed of which because you can't

Scott:

onboard somebody effectively in a day you

Scott:

can't bring people in learn culture in

Scott:

a week You can't you know you can't grow

Scott:

three times the size and sit there and

Scott:

go we're we're the same Well no because

Scott:

it's it's what are we going to be now

Scott:

And that's one of the mistakes is you

Scott:

try to you try to almost Bull in a China

Scott:

shop the culture through to F to the 500

Scott:

people to the 5,000 people And culture is

Scott:

a very basic thing that people kind of get

Scott:

confused Sometimes it's culture simply is

Scott:

how you feel when you work there That's

Scott:

it And culture is actually much more uh um

Scott:

uh intangible than we think it is And it's

Scott:

it's that it's it's turnover rates It's

Scott:

I know a good culture when I don't have

Scott:

to recruit I know a good culture when my

Scott:

employees are my recruiters I know a good

Scott:

culture when my turnover rate is non-exec

Scott:

almost non-existent um potentially but

Scott:

that's that's also a false one sometimes

Scott:

because sometimes a great culture is

Scott:

knowing when somebody hit their ceiling

Scott:

in your company and allowing them to grow

Scott:

elsewhere And that's where that we have

Scott:

these false kind of things about culture

Scott:

and cultures is simply how you feel at

Scott:

the company And it is top-down driven

Scott:

but that's also Team top-down driven So

Scott:

you can have a great culture of a team

Scott:

necessarily company because companies can

Scott:

be in seven different locations Well you

Scott:

don't not going to have the same culture

Scott:

in those locations necessarily but you

Scott:

can have it with teams And the problem is

Scott:

for me I always is the more layers when

Scott:

the layers come into effect more So it's

Scott:

you're reporting right now to the CEO

Scott:

but your job may be different if you're

Scott:

reporting to three more layers than to

Scott:

the CEO or there's three layers below

Scott:

you it's always causing because whenever

Scott:

you're dealing with humans That species

Scott:

you're going to have things and issues and

Scott:

politics And I think workplaces are like

Scott:

high school except you get paid sometimes

Scott:

You know we we we have those things

Scott:

come into The more humans you involve

Scott:

in things the more Things that can come

Scott:

up and happen And then and then we have

Scott:

that problem and then there's like one

Scott:

vacancy and somebody didn't get it and

Scott:

they thought they should And then that's

Scott:

how it starts And and the transparency

Scott:

and the authenticity internally should

Scott:

be there too because I've found the

Scott:

most authentic companies that a customer

Scott:

thinks are authentic are also authentic

Scott:

internally to each other And that's

Scott:

sometimes harder than having a market

Scott:

thing We're we're authentic outwardly

Kaylee:

Exactly And I think that goes into

Kaylee:

this motion of brand marketing and I'd

Kaylee:

love to hit on it quickly my perception

Kaylee:

of brand marketing has changed drastically

Kaylee:

over the years Um so for instance when I

Kaylee:

worked for Emma and that's how you and I

Kaylee:

first met um I reported to Someone who had

Kaylee:

an extensive background in brand marketing

Kaylee:

Whereas I had at that point in my career

Kaylee:

only ever been paid for performance

Kaylee:

marketing Um so my mind was in very much

Kaylee:

so of like okay this is paid advertising

Kaylee:

It needs to happen on social It needs

Kaylee:

to happen on Google ads Here are all the

Kaylee:

channels that that's just where my mind

Kaylee:

was And I thought Oh brand marketing like

Kaylee:

that's such fluff Like I don't have time

Kaylee:

for that But that was so wrong So Mark

Kaylee:

my words I'm saying this now is being

Kaylee:

recorded That was so wrong And it was

Kaylee:

such a missed opportunity And now I've

Kaylee:

seen the light I understand that brand

Kaylee:

marketing is so much more than fluff which

Kaylee:

is honestly my uneducated thought at the

Kaylee:

time was just fluff really not because it

Kaylee:

plays into this a extension of your brand

Kaylee:

that we're of talking about here and it

Kaylee:

comes to light in so many So many avenues

Kaylee:

like on personal email threads or on my

Kaylee:

LinkedIn DMS or whatever And it's like

Kaylee:

you know I'm just one piece of this puzzle

Kaylee:

here When you have a team of a hundred

Kaylee:

500 a thousand people that is your brand

Kaylee:

and it's something that's really Hard

Kaylee:

to control like right These people are

Kaylee:

writing your narrative your customers your

Kaylee:

prospects the people who are engaging with

Kaylee:

your brand are writing this part of your

Kaylee:

story for you based on the engagements

Kaylee:

and the interactions that they have with

Kaylee:

employees that work at your company And I

Kaylee:

think that that isn't prioritized enough

Kaylee:

in the grand scheme of marketing today

Scott:

Well and I think that your initial

Scott:

thought of brand marketing though it

Scott:

wasn't wrong Somewhat I honestly when

Scott:

I

Scott:

no I I D I I don't think it's wrong I

Scott:

think there's a lot of BS I I I was part

Scott:

of the BS Like I I get it There's a lot

Scott:

of because almost into some holistic

Scott:

marketing stuff too And the and the you

Scott:

know the the brand the the the brand voice

Scott:

and the and this and then you get into

Scott:

the visuals and the logos and all that

Scott:

type of stuff And then you get the logo

Kaylee:

sure

Scott:

the in in all this type of The

Scott:

crap and you go through this and this and

Scott:

this and then you have um you know but

Scott:

like and then it's like the sponsoring

Scott:

of our show It was not really performance

Scott:

Really It was more of an overall brand

Scott:

thing And what is it works and what it

Scott:

doesn't And look you can hide a lot of

Scott:

stuff in brand marketing You can hide

Scott:

a lot of waste in brand marketing but

Scott:

you can also hide waste and performance

Scott:

marketing which don't care but you can

Scott:

right Depending on what those indicators

Scott:

are and where they're going And I just

Scott:

think the problem is is is it's a fight

Scott:

for budget It's a fight for credit It's

Scott:

a fight for you know just saying look I

Scott:

you come out of the space of performance

Scott:

marketing That's a that's a trench Like

Scott:

you come out with scars out of that world

Scott:

Right You you just come crawling out and

Scott:

you're like Oh And then somebody is like

Scott:

I think we should update the logo You

Scott:

know and you're just like I just came

Scott:

out of a trench and we just spent 40,000

Scott:

on this one and you're just like well do

Scott:

we have the pan tones for the and we're

Scott:

just kind of and it's this kind of this

Scott:

sometimes it's fluffy type of stuff when

Scott:

it's not but I find that everything is one

Scott:

under one roof And the bigger the company

Scott:

gets and the more marketers that are in

Scott:

there and the kind of the infighting that

Scott:

happens between it between the SEO person

Scott:

here and this person here and you have a

Scott:

copywriter over here you have this and you

Scott:

have all of this And then like internal

Scott:

gatekeeping happens Which is fascinating

Scott:

me right Where cause cause nobody sees

Scott:

the customers clients don't see those

Scott:

things They don't see silos They don't

Scott:

see this like brand this boom boom And

Scott:

they don't see all the internal chaos

Scott:

that goes along with a lot of this type

Scott:

of stuff and and makes you want to have

Scott:

a one person company again or something

Scott:

But there's there's no not one department

Scott:

of marketing not one area marketing

Scott:

is is the only BS part of it A lot of

Scott:

marketing is BS Is it is it because we

Scott:

we use fancy words A lot of the times

Scott:

we try to say things that make us sound

Scott:

smarter and that's in an industry in

Scott:

marketing One of the things we do is we

Scott:

make things overly difficult And circling

Scott:

back to the original question we were

Scott:

talking today was like that's the reason

Scott:

for like clubhouse Well one things if

Scott:

something's new while the rest of the

Scott:

marketers don't know it or the rest of

Scott:

the company doesn't know it So I'm going

Scott:

to look even smarter There's an ego thing

Scott:

involved there And ego drives marketing

Scott:

sometimes too And that's it can be fine

Scott:

It can be healthy Eagle cam but part of

Scott:

Eagle can be healthy because you don't

Scott:

want it to to shatter that ego So you

Scott:

really want to do well But the other part

Scott:

comes in there and then it's ownership

Scott:

and saying no this is mine This is what

Scott:

I did as we did When in reality nobody

Scott:

cares They just want the overall to do

Scott:

well The overall picture do better And if

Scott:

you can get it together and work together

Scott:

on this stuff but that's about a team And

Scott:

the team is only as good as the person

Scott:

leading the team and then the members

Scott:

of that team And if there's politics if

Scott:

there's favoritism it doesn't matter what

Scott:

you do It's just going to fall off It's

Scott:

just going to be moot because they don't

Scott:

trust you Trust is not just about clients

Scott:

Trust is employees and I don't I'm not

Scott:

going to work as hard or I'm not going

Scott:

to spend the time and show the initiative

Scott:

I think that there's favoritism I think

Scott:

this or that is this all all credit will

Scott:

go to the performance marketing side of

Scott:

it when we had nothing to do with it And

Scott:

that's just infighting everywhere And

Scott:

it's not part of the game I like to play

Kaylee:

I think that's so it it's all

Kaylee:

about like at the end of the day your

Kaylee:

customers your prospects your boss even

Kaylee:

probably doesn't really care who pushed

Kaylee:

go who launched the thing who changed

Kaylee:

the colors as long as it's done and

Kaylee:

it's working right Whatever those goals

Kaylee:

are you set beforehand I don't care if

Kaylee:

Jessica Tom Myself you whoever Right Um

Kaylee:

just as long as it gets done And I think

Kaylee:

we miss that a lot Cause we get so busy

Kaylee:

and caught up on this hamster wheel of

Kaylee:

just go go go go go let's get the things

Kaylee:

that it's like look let's just work

Kaylee:

together We can get 10 times more things

Kaylee:

done Like it doesn't matter Who's owning

Scott:

Marketing thing is feels more

Scott:

hamster wheel now than ever It does

Scott:

just it's just running and running and

Scott:

running and running and running and

Scott:

running You don't even get the pellet At

Scott:

this point right You just keep running

Scott:

on the wheel and and that's you set that

Scott:

tone I we alluded to it already on this

Scott:

It's just you can't with expiring content

Scott:

and and you're you just run people into

Scott:

the ground and you're dealing with humans

Scott:

I don't care your brand or your company

Scott:

You've got to understand that humans need

Scott:

feedback and they need they need praise

Scott:

Then they need Security to know they're

Scott:

doing a good job and they an autonomy And

Scott:

but we just dehumanize it a lot and to say

Scott:

it's performance performance And that's

Scott:

my one of my big problems with performance

Scott:

marketing too It's just it just comes

Scott:

down to that fraction of a percentage Did

Scott:

it work or did it not Did you increase

Scott:

it Did you do this And you just like

Scott:

you're just a number and it's not what we

Kaylee:

Yeah It's all about the lift

Scott:

We need business We need

Scott:

revenue We need to increase things

Scott:

Okay But understand that Always

Scott:

reaching for the highest increase every

Scott:

single time It can burn people alive

Kaylee:

burns people out It's not

Kaylee:

realistic And yeah like at the end of

Kaylee:

the day your company it's not going to

Kaylee:

really move the needle that much for your

Kaylee:

company over some of these other things

Kaylee:

that you should put more prioritization

Kaylee:

on and on Yeah So with that let's end

Kaylee:

on that Let me ask you one more question

Kaylee:

who is another marketer in the space

Kaylee:

that you're currently following Another

Kaylee:

book that you've read recently something

Kaylee:

that's influenced you that the audience

Kaylee:

could go follow themselves or read

Scott:

That's a good question

Scott:

Good Last question Now I got to

Scott:

think about it for

Kaylee:

Sorry I want

Kaylee:

to put you on the spot

Scott:

Oh that's

Kaylee:

I

Kaylee:

know you're consuming stuff

Kaylee:

all day so I know what's

Kaylee:

top of mine

Scott:

I I promoted something on LinkedIn

Scott:

awhile ago a book and I I promoted it as

Scott:

the highest promotion I could possibly

Scott:

do for something Uh you know I put the UN

Scott:

on stamp on it and I said and I haven't

Scott:

read it That's how confident I have his

Scott:

book because a friend of mine Marcus

Scott:

Sheridan um and he put out a book called

Scott:

they ask you answer Marcus is one of the

Scott:

best content marketers I've know on this

Scott:

planet And he's the his nickname was a

Scott:

sales lion and he started a pool company

Scott:

and he got known and he got grew His

Scott:

exponentially grew his pool company from

Scott:

content marketing And he's a brilliant

Scott:

speaker and writer And I haven't read

Scott:

the book and I I will I even on the post

Scott:

in LinkedIn I said if you don't like

Scott:

it I will refund your money That's how

Scott:

good I know it can be And I would just

Scott:

if you're in marketing and I would read

Scott:

Marcus's stuff he's uh he is killer

Kaylee:

great I love it A glowing

Kaylee:

review without even having read it

Kaylee:

So that that must mean it's great

Scott:

it also tells you how well how much

Scott:

focus I have to read books but anyway uh

Kaylee:

no time for that

Scott:

one just came out here today I

Scott:

actually have it from a friend of mine

Scott:

too It's called I love it here Um it's

Scott:

less marketing based but it's how great

Scott:

leaders create organizations that their

Scott:

people never want to leave Uh by another

Scott:

friend of ours uh Clint Pulver and Clint

Scott:

is is one of our favorite humans and

Scott:

I love his stuff And uh he is a threat

Scott:

to my keynote speaking business because

Scott:

he's so good And uh I would also I've

Scott:

I've actually started reading this one

Scott:

but it's it's fantastic So you want

Scott:

marketing one is Marcus's and then I

Scott:

love it Here's a great one from Clinton

Kaylee:

beautiful I love it Thank

Kaylee:

you so much for your time today I

Kaylee:

love this as always You're so full of

Kaylee:

wisdom and so insightful So thank you

Kaylee:

I appreciate it Um for anyone that's

Kaylee:

listening that also loves you and wants

Kaylee:

to follow you where should they go

Scott:

Uh our world on marketing So you

Scott:

can always just start it on marketing.com

Scott:

and go from there And you'll see the front

Scott:

page we have there which is we changed it

Scott:

now It's just like 15 statements of what

Scott:

makes up on marketing And if they resonate

Scott:

with you then you're in the right place

Scott:

And if not and you can go somewhere else

Kaylee:

Yeah With a little bit of

Kaylee:

a humorous gift at the bottom too

Scott:

me falling off

Scott:

a freaking stage yeah

Kaylee:

It's classic though It

Kaylee:

just shows that you're a real human

Scott:

I didn't have the man bun

Scott:

uh whatever I would have broken

Scott:

something but my my head hit the man

Scott:

bun So I was cushioned By the way

Scott:

um just

Scott:

just as a behind the scenes thing since

Scott:

nobody sees that in the gift um we were

Scott:

about to go on a Disney cruise like a

Scott:

few days later never text your wife in

Scott:

all caps I fell off the FN stage and then

Scott:

go radio silent for three hours because

Scott:

you're signing books and she thinks

Scott:

you've been hospitalized That's it's

Scott:

just a friendly tip I it just no reason I

Scott:

brought it up Just don't do that because

Scott:

then your your wife maybe Panicking and

Scott:

calling the crews and saying do they

Scott:

have a wheelchair Because they think

Scott:

their husband's in traction right now

Scott:

And I wasn't I just was signing books so

Kaylee:

knowing knowing Alison she's

Kaylee:

already like trying to book a flight to

Kaylee:

where you're save

Kaylee:

I love it.

Kaylee:

I love it so much.

Kaylee:

So thank you.

Kaylee:

Thank you as always.

Kaylee:

I appreciate it.

Kaylee:

Yeah.

Scott:

thank you, Kaylee

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