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(E25) The presentation expert Fiona Walsh
Episode 25 • 2nd September 2024 • Leaders with impact • Lee Griffith
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If I say the word presentation to you, what comes to mind? Hundreds of powerpoint slides with text and images so small no-one can understand them. Maybe, like me your mouth drops to your stomach at the thought on being on-stage and everyone looking at you.

Whatever your thoughts and feelings are on the topic, one thing’s for sure - as a leader you are going to have to do it - and often!

In today’s episode I’m talking with presentation trainer Fiona Walsh about how you can speak with impact - whether it’s a Board meeting, town-hall staff session or you’re on-stage in front of hundreds of your peers - we talk about:

  • what makes a speaker impactful
  • whether it's a skill that comes naturally or you can learn
  • how to make everyday (boring) presentations more engaging
  • avoiding filler words, using breathwork exercises and other ways to improve your presentation style
  • how your approach might change at work versus a national platform
  • presenting online
  • the problems with slidedecks and how to break the cycle of expectation
  • feeling more comfortable 'on stage'
  • dealing with challenges and challengers

Resources and helpful links

About leaders with impact

Want to know the secret of great leaders? In Leaders with impact we'll be exploring what makes an impactful leader; sharing stories of success and strategies that set them apart.

If you are ambitious for your organisation but are struggling to identify what you can do differently as a leader to deliver the right improvements, then hit subscribe to learn how you can get clear on your strategy, implement some self-leadership and connect with those you serve.

New episodes are released every fortnight.

Get in touch

If you enjoyed the episode please leave a review on Apple podcasts (or your app of choice) and let me know what you thought on LinkedIn or instagram.

I’ll be back with the next episode in two weeks so in the meantime remember to sign up to my newsletter to get notified of new episodes, guest appearances and further insights on how to lead with impact.

Transcripts

Lee Griffith:

If I say the word presentation to you, what comes

Lee Griffith:

to mind? Is it hundreds of PowerPoint slides with teeny

Lee Griffith:

teeny tiny text and images so small that no one can read them,

Lee Griffith:

let alone understand what you're trying to say. Maybe like me,

Lee Griffith:

your mouth is drop into your stomach, the thought of being on

Lee Griffith:

stage and everyone looking at you. Whatever your thoughts and

Lee Griffith:

feelings are on the topic, one thing's for sure. As a leader,

Lee Griffith:

you can have to do it. And often. I'm Lee Griffith,

Lee Griffith:

communication strategist, executive coach and champion of

Lee Griffith:

leaders who do things differently and reject the old

Lee Griffith:

school stereotypes. In the leader through impact podcast,

Lee Griffith:

I'm here to help you get clear on your strategy, implement some

Lee Griffith:

self leadership and connect with those who serve through your

Lee Griffith:

communication so that you can deliver improved organizational

Lee Griffith:

performance. If you're enjoying the podcast, please leave a

Lee Griffith:

review over on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. In today's

Lee Griffith:

episode, I'm talking with presentation trainer Fiona Walsh

Lee Griffith:

about how you can speak with impact. Whether it's a board

Lee Griffith:

meeting, town hall staff session, or you're on stage in

Lee Griffith:

front of hundreds of your peers. We talked about how to avoid the

Lee Griffith:

many pitfalls presenters face and what you can practically do

Lee Griffith:

to speak with confidence, convey your message of clarity, and win

Lee Griffith:

the hearts and minds of your audience enjoy. So today, I'm

Lee Griffith:

delighted to be talking with Fiona Walsh is a presentation

Lee Griffith:

and PowerPoint trainer. And we're looking at how leaders can

Lee Griffith:

be more impactful in the way that they speak and present. And

Lee Griffith:

I know from the leaders that I worked with in the past, not

Lee Griffith:

everyone's really comfortable with that form of standing up

Lee Griffith:

and speaking. And I'll admit from the off, this was not

Lee Griffith:

something that was in my comfort zone. When I when I worked in

Lee Griffith:

corporate, I was far more comfortable behind the scenes

Lee Griffith:

than being on stage. And so I think what I've certainly

Lee Griffith:

noticed in my career, and I'd be interested in your thoughts,

Lee Griffith:

Fiona, is this sense that leaders can sometimes create

Lee Griffith:

this protection shield around them when they have to speak and

Lee Griffith:

it also known as death by PowerPoint. So we're, I'm sure

Lee Griffith:

we're going to cover a lot of that in today's conversation.

Lee Griffith:

But I suppose to start and to get us in on the right track for

Lee Griffith:

you, what makes a speaker impactful.

Unknown:

I think there's there's a number of elements there

Unknown:

really, firstly, it's the content of what they're saying.

Unknown:

They need to have the need to have a hook to start with, you

Unknown:

need to have something to draw your audience in at the

Unknown:

beginning. You need to have passion when you're speaking.

Unknown:

You need to have voice tone variation. If you're talking

Unknown:

with a monotone voice all the time, it can get very difficult

Unknown:

to, to listen to, I suppose that's where the passion comes

Unknown:

in. When we're able to raise our voice and really speak with

Unknown:

passion. You can hear that in somebody's voice. That's one

Unknown:

thing that certainly helps make people impactful. I also think

Unknown:

practicing. I think a lot of people don't realize how

Unknown:

important it is to practice picking up

Lee Griffith:

on the practice element. Is it something that

Lee Griffith:

you're either a good speaker or not? Or is it something that you

Lee Griffith:

can learn to speak? Well, I suppose How do you get to that

Lee Griffith:

point of being impactful?

Unknown:

Practice? Definitely. Yeah, I think there are. Some

Unknown:

people may be born good speakers, I think it depends on

Unknown:

their background, and probably their upbringing as to whether

Unknown:

they had an environment where they could speak out. I think

Unknown:

the the I grew up in the UK as well, although I live in Ireland

Unknown:

now. But I think certainly the background that I grew up in

Unknown:

school, you know, you didn't stand up and speak in front of

Unknown:

people really, it was told to be quiet and shut up. So that

Unknown:

doesn't really help. But I know things have changed a lot in

Unknown:

that time. And I think that people coming through schools

Unknown:

now have the opportunity to start speaking at an earlier

Unknown:

age. And I think that helps. But it definitely is something that

Unknown:

can be learned. I am not an active Toastmaster at the

Unknown:

moment. But I have been a Toastmaster. And it really helps

Unknown:

the practice. It's like a muscle that we have to use. And if we

Unknown:

don't practice it, then we can lose that ability to do it.

Unknown:

Well. If we practice it, it's much easier to get over our

Unknown:

fears. Not everybody has fears but it's one of the top fears

Unknown:

public speaking is supposed to be above dying, or had the same

Unknown:

or had the same level of percentage of people that fear

Unknown:

things. You know, public speaking is really up there as

Unknown:

one of the top fears and practice certainly helps with

Unknown:

that. Without a doubt, it means

Lee Griffith:

you don't know what's a Toastmaster?

Unknown:

A Toastmaster is an organization that runs

Unknown:

throughout the world that allows people to practice public

Unknown:

speaking Can't live in an environment in a safe

Unknown:

environment. So the if you google them you'll find

Unknown:

Toastmasters for the UK or wherever you're located. And

Unknown:

then you'll be able to find local groups. And you pay like a

Unknown:

fee to join. And then probably a fee, when you when you go along

Unknown:

each each week, they tend to run weekly or bi weekly, and people

Unknown:

can go along, first of all, just to see what happens in it, and

Unknown:

then you'll be invited to do probably, it's not really a

Unknown:

welcome speech can't remember exactly what it's called, we

Unknown:

just talk about yourself and your background, they're usually

Unknown:

in between four and six minutes that you're speaking. So it's

Unknown:

not like you're doing a 30 minute presentation, which can

Unknown:

be quite stressful. It's a short presentation. And as you go

Unknown:

along through the program, you will get more formal feedback.

Unknown:

So you will be giving formal presentations. And then you

Unknown:

might be asking the audience or they, you'll have people that

Unknown:

are asked the formula giving you feedback. So there'll be

Unknown:

nominated people to give feedback. And you might be

Unknown:

asking for feedback on how many filler words am I using? Is the

Unknown:

you know, how's my body language? Is my body language?

Unknown:

Am I overdoing with the body language? Am I not doing, we're

Unknown:

not making any body language, you know, just feedback on

Unknown:

different aspects of your presentation. Okay,

Lee Griffith:

so we'll add a link for in the show notes for

Lee Griffith:

people who might be interested in exploring that as an option

Lee Griffith:

to help them with their practicing. I wanted to touch on

Lee Griffith:

the fact that I suppose most leaders or in organizations

Lee Griffith:

aren't standing on a stage delivering TED talks, for

Lee Griffith:

example, but they're having to present in all shapes and sizes

Lee Griffith:

of crowds on a fairly regular basis. So whether it's present

Lee Griffith:

in the board, it might be all staff meetings, it could be

Lee Griffith:

public events, or public meetings of some sorts. And

Lee Griffith:

often they're presenting on general updates on the state of

Lee Griffith:

the business, or maybe their area of responsibility within

Lee Griffith:

the business. And I'm mindful of your, your description of what

Lee Griffith:

makes an impactful speaker and passion being one of them. And I

Lee Griffith:

suppose those two things, passion, and general updates of

Lee Griffith:

the business don't always tend to make a great marriage. So

Lee Griffith:

what can leaders do to help them tap into that passion, and I

Lee Griffith:

suppose, by result of that would be that they become more

Lee Griffith:

engaging and impactful in the way that they speak.

Unknown:

I think that's it's the awareness of, of them speaking.

Unknown:

So maybe recording yourself, delivering a presentation in

Unknown:

front of those people in that environment can help give you

Unknown:

some insights. Because if you're practicing, and I certainly

Unknown:

wouldn't recommend practicing in front of a mirror or something

Unknown:

like that, because you're looking at yourself. And that

Unknown:

doesn't help because in an environment where you are

Unknown:

speaking, you're not actually looking at yourself, then. So

Unknown:

it's, it's kind of giving you a negative practice environment.

Unknown:

You could practice yourself practice in your own

Unknown:

environment. But you could record that. And then you could

Unknown:

watch that back and see, you know, how could you make that

Unknown:

more impactful, or even if you're able to get a recording,

Unknown:

perhaps it's an online update you're doing, if you're able to

Unknown:

record that, and then you can get some feedback, or even

Unknown:

asking people in the audience, I'm going to deliver this

Unknown:

presentation today. Maybe there's somebody there that you

Unknown:

can ask for feedback as to how they how you could improve.

Unknown:

Because, you know, if we don't get any feedback, we're not

Unknown:

we're not going to improve. And sometimes we don't, it's not

Unknown:

always a good environment to get feedback. But you know, maybe

Unknown:

there's one person that you could ask for genuine feedback

Unknown:

as to how you're how you're presenting.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, and what's the type of things that people

Lee Griffith:

are generally having to work on when they're looking to change

Lee Griffith:

and improve the way that they're presenting?

Unknown:

I think a big one, that's probably my worst habit

Unknown:

as well is filler words. Things like M. R. You know, like, it's

Unknown:

those type of words that can be very distracting when you're

Unknown:

delivering a presentation. Because once an audience member

Unknown:

has noticed it every time you are an art, it's grating on for

Unknown:

them for the audience member. And remember, when we're

Unknown:

speaking, it's about the audience. It's not about us. I

Unknown:

think that's probably one of the biggest things. And even just

Unknown:

having that awareness of the fact that you're saying them can

Unknown:

be helpful. What I would like to point out, I'm trying very hard

Unknown:

now not to not to use them. But I would like to point out is,

Unknown:

the reason we use filler words, is because we're talking too

Unknown:

fast for our brain to catch off. And that's why the filler words

Unknown:

come in. And if we slow our speech down a little bit, we're

Unknown:

thinking about what we want to say before we say it and the

Unknown:

filler words are less likely to come. Alright. So that's the

Unknown:

main reason because I think I didn't Use ne in the last few

Unknown:

sentences while I was describing that, because I spoke a lot

Unknown:

slower. I'm prone to sleep speaking very fast, as well. So

Unknown:

it's something that I really have to work on when I'm doing

Unknown:

public speaking, to make sure I slow down enough to not use the

Unknown:

filler words. So that is the number one reason we use them.

Unknown:

Not habit, because we're talking too fast.

Lee Griffith:

I had a I had, no, I'm gonna be really self

Lee Griffith:

conscious about using them myself. I worked with a leader

Lee Griffith:

once, who spoke really fast and would always and now to the

Lee Griffith:

point it was really distracting. And I would sit at the back of

Lee Griffith:

the room. And this was part of our I brought his awareness to

Lee Griffith:

this been quite an issue and a barrier for him to connect with

Lee Griffith:

people. And we worked on it and what I what we did would, I'd be

Lee Griffith:

at the back of the room. And every time he used a filler

Lee Griffith:

word, I put my hand up in the air. So he was getting, he would

Lee Griffith:

suddenly get this visual Oh, shit. And he wrote it down. And

Lee Griffith:

eventually he had brought that awareness to himself that he, I

Lee Griffith:

wouldn't say they completely went, but they were definitely

Lee Griffith:

more less frequent as fragrant. Yes. So it's yeah, that's

Lee Griffith:

definitely something that's people, you know, when we all do

Lee Griffith:

it, don't we?

Unknown:

Yes, we do. And the problem is that, when we're

Unknown:

speaking, we tend to get generally speaking here, we tend

Unknown:

to get a little bit nervous, or most people get a little bit

Unknown:

nervous. So there's a little bit of adrenaline going on. And

Unknown:

they're going to speak a bit faster because of the

Unknown:

adrenaline. So unfortunately, that goes hand in hand with the

Unknown:

filler words coming. Because most people when they're

Unknown:

speaking in that environment, until they get used to it till

Unknown:

they get practiced, are going to be a little bit nervous. There's

Unknown:

a few more tips. In relation to that. First one is telling

Unknown:

ourselves that the feeling of that adrenaline when it starts

Unknown:

pumping, the feeling of nervousness is the same feeling

Unknown:

as excitement. Same, it's the same thing. It's just labeled

Unknown:

differently. So rather than saying, Oh God, I can I can feel

Unknown:

those butterflies coming up starting to feel nervous. We can

Unknown:

try relabeling and saying to ourselves, I'm starting to

Unknown:

really be excited, because I'm going to stand up and I'm going

Unknown:

to do this really well. Same feeling, it's the same hormone

Unknown:

that's starting to be started to be released, we could try

Unknown:

relabeling that and saying, I'm actually excited about that.

Unknown:

Because it is the same feeling as when you're excited. That's

Unknown:

the first thing, there's another couple of things that you can

Unknown:

do. One is to breathing. Because when we're breathing, we are

Unknown:

helping ourselves relax, but it's quite specific breathing.

Unknown:

So rather than deep breathing does help, but if we breathe out

Unknown:

for longer than we breathe in, that then regulates our brain

Unknown:

and our hormones, and that will relax us more. So even if you

Unknown:

take a deep breath in quickly, and breathe out slowly. So if

Unknown:

you can carry it out for longer on the breath out, that's going

Unknown:

to calm your heart rate down, it's going to calm everything

Unknown:

down. So even if you took a deep breath for a couple of seconds

Unknown:

of try to breathe out for six seconds, that's going to calm

Unknown:

you down. You can feel your heart rate slowing as you do

Unknown:

that. So there's the out breath as long as you can.

Lee Griffith:

And I do that, quite often as a practice breath

Lee Griffith:

practice is something but I tend to do that in my own private

Lee Griffith:

space away from if anyone so is that something that people do

Lee Griffith:

before they get on stage to present? Or is there a breathing

Lee Griffith:

technique whilst they're presenting that they could that

Lee Griffith:

would come into play? That one is, I mean, you don't have to I

Lee Griffith:

did a very loud in breath them. But you could do that quite

Lee Griffith:

quietly, you could still do you know, through your nose, but

Lee Griffith:

quickly and then out slowly. You could do that counting, just try

Lee Griffith:

and do it. And then did the slow breath out. You can count that

Lee Griffith:

out. What was the other thing that I was going to say there?

Lee Griffith:

I've got distracted. Yes, there's another one, which is to

Lee Griffith:

do with when you're when you're speaking, to always breathe at

Lee Griffith:

the breathe in at the end of a sentence. Right? So if you're

Lee Griffith:

talking out, then I take a breath in at that breath in

Lee Griffith:

forces me to pause because you can't speak while you're

Lee Griffith:

breathing in. We actually speak while we're breathing out. We've

Lee Griffith:

got a breath in. And that breath in at the end of the sentence

Lee Griffith:

allows us to think about what we're going to say next. So it's

Lee Griffith:

that little pause that lets us think about the next thing we're

Lee Griffith:

going to say which can help those filler words. Not be

Lee Griffith:

there. Okay. It's when I first started yoga. I really hated the

Lee Griffith:

fact that it felt like my breathing was back to front and

Lee Griffith:

I was having to be far more conscious and that Almost that

Lee Griffith:

explanation almost feels like there's a bit of back to front

Lee Griffith:

this, but I've never actually paid attention to how I do

Lee Griffith:

breathe, when I'm speaking. So is it something that we're doing

Lee Griffith:

naturally anyway, but it is about bringing in some

Lee Griffith:

mindfulness to that.

Unknown:

We're probably not thinking about when we're

Unknown:

speaking because most of us are too nervous. That's the catch.

Unknown:

Yeah, we're thinking or feeling nervous, I'm feeling nervous, is

Unknown:

this going to be okay? And most people forget then too, even

Unknown:

though they know that they might know these tools, they might

Unknown:

forget to actually use them. That's part of the issue.

Unknown:

Unfortunately, that's why you have to tie it, well try telling

Unknown:

yourself you're excited first, rather than you nervous when you

Unknown:

get those feelings. I'm excited, because I'm going to get up

Unknown:

there. And I'm going to do this great presentation. That's what

Unknown:

I'm excited about. But yeah, a lot of the time we forget to use

Unknown:

those breathing tips.

Lee Griffith:

I suppose part of it must be also that, for us,

Lee Griffith:

taking a breath probably feels like an age but to the audience,

Lee Griffith:

they need to take breath as well, if you're going really

Lee Griffith:

quickly, and they're trying to stay on track, it's a really

Lee Griffith:

helpful way for all of you to slow it down for them to

Lee Griffith:

understand what you're saying to them

Unknown:

even. Absolutely. And even when we are speaking. It

Unknown:

sounds very slow to us. But you have to remember, as you've just

Unknown:

said that our audience has to process what we've said, because

Unknown:

they don't you know, what is your say, you know, the topic

Unknown:

that you're trying to get across, you can do it quite

Unknown:

quickly speak about it quite quickly. And you know, you know

Unknown:

what you're talking about, but for them, they need to be able

Unknown:

to process what it is you've said. And although some people

Unknown:

do that slower than others, some people might need those pauses.

Unknown:

And that's it. That's another thing of pausing when we're

Unknown:

speaking. People don't do that enough. Pause to us, I've just

Unknown:

done one there can feel like a really long time when we're in

Unknown:

front of people, but it isn't. We can use pauses for effect.

Unknown:

Yeah. If we've got something really important to say, we can

Unknown:

have a big pause before so that people are listening, you know,

Unknown:

you'd see the audience sort of starting to lean forward a bit.

Unknown:

So what's what's coming, and then what we can deliver the bit

Unknown:

with impact, because we've had that pause. And pauses also

Unknown:

allow us to gather our thoughts as well. So if we aren't clear

Unknown:

on what we're going to say next, or maybe somebody's asked us a

Unknown:

question, we can pause, or we gather our thoughts before we're

Unknown:

going to carry on and respond.

Lee Griffith:

Okay, so we've got filler words, we've got being

Lee Griffith:

aware of your breath, slowing down the way you speak, we've

Lee Griffith:

got that awareness around the nervous energy you might be

Lee Griffith:

bringing in and using pauses, and all of that to bring effect

Lee Griffith:

so that you take your audience with you. What else are useful

Lee Griffith:

tips for leaders who are trying to make a better impact in the

Lee Griffith:

way that they're coming across? I think having a clear message,

Lee Griffith:

yeah. And one way to help with your message is to use the rule

Lee Griffith:

of threes. Yeah. Wherever got three topics. threes are very

Lee Griffith:

easy for us to remember, there's been quite a bit of research on

Lee Griffith:

this from the audience point of view. So if I say to you, right,

Lee Griffith:

I've got 10 points, I'll start listing off by 10 points, you

Lee Griffith:

will most likely remember three, you might remember four, but you

Lee Griffith:

certainly will not remember 10. If we start with when we're

Lee Griffith:

presenting and we're talking to our audience, and we're going to

Lee Griffith:

be telling them we're going to have three points, they will

Lee Griffith:

more likely remember those three points as the takeaways from our

Lee Griffith:

presentation. The rule of threes is also something that helps the

Lee Griffith:

speaker because as the person presenting, you're likely to

Lee Griffith:

remember those three points as well. Now I can guess this

Lee Griffith:

probably somebody in the audience saying, oh, yeah, but I

Lee Griffith:

have got 10 things to get across. I understand that. Can

Lee Griffith:

you take those 10 things, maybe you can incorporate a couple in

Lee Griffith:

one topic. Perhaps you can take those. So maybe we've got nine,

Lee Griffith:

then hopefully, you'll see where I'm going with this. And you

Lee Griffith:

have three topics that those other topics would fit into. So

Lee Griffith:

that we've got the rule of threes, we've got our first

Lee Griffith:

topic, and maybe there's three things within there. A second

Lee Griffith:

topic, maybe there's two or three things within there. And

Lee Griffith:

our third topic, perhaps we've got three things there as well.

Lee Griffith:

So it just helps the audience get it and it helps us when

Lee Griffith:

we're presenting. Because I can almost guarantee that if

Lee Griffith:

somebody stood up to present 10 things and they didn't really

Lee Griffith:

have any prompts or PowerPoint presentation behind them, so

Lee Griffith:

that they didn't know what the next slide was going to be,

Lee Griffith:

shall we say? They're not going to remember the 10th thing or

Lee Griffith:

the ninth thing. And then they'll get to the end of the

Lee Griffith:

presentation. And they'll say, Oh, dammit, I forgot to say,

Lee Griffith:

what have you. Whereas if we break it down into these threes,

Lee Griffith:

it makes it easy for us as an audience member to take them

Lee Griffith:

away. But it also makes it easy for a presenter to remember

Lee Griffith:

them. Yeah, because we don't want to be reading from a piece

Lee Griffith:

of paper either. That's not presenting that's not not quite

Lee Griffith:

the same. I wanted to swing back, I suppose the point around

Lee Griffith:

the hook. And that been an important part of making that

Lee Griffith:

impact in the way that you're talking if you're giving a

Lee Griffith:

speech or presentation. And the point about a lot of the stuff

Lee Griffith:

that leaders talk about can be really dry to them and to

Lee Griffith:

others. How do you, how do you find a hook in something that

Lee Griffith:

perhaps, to everyone is just business as usual, and I'm not

Lee Griffith:

necessarily going to rally the troops. Yeah,

Unknown:

and that might not mean if you're in monthly updates,

Unknown:

and you're doing the same, I don't mean the same objects,

Unknown:

obviously, it's gonna be different each month, but you've

Unknown:

got the same type of update that you're doing each month, that's

Unknown:

might be challenging, because you know, there might not really

Unknown:

be anything every month, the could be one month, that could

Unknown:

be something that is a bit more difficult that sorry, not

Unknown:

difficult, different. And that's where you could try and you

Unknown:

know, do things a little bit differently on that particular

Unknown:

occasion. So sometimes it could be even thinking, thinking

Unknown:

things out. So let's say, I had somebody in a training session

Unknown:

recently, and we had two training sessions. This is

Unknown:

PowerPoint. And the two weeks in between the training sessions

Unknown:

and the they came back to the group sessions online, chatting

Unknown:

to people before we started, and one of the people said, I saved

Unknown:

three hours in the last two weeks doing a repetitive task.

Unknown:

Three hours in two weeks, I could turn that three hours into

Unknown:

how much time could that person save in a year? Okay, so if

Unknown:

we're saying two hours, sorry, three hours wasn't two weeks, if

Unknown:

we say three hours in two weeks, I could times that by maybe not

Unknown:

26 was with a few days, a few weeks holidays, but I could sort

Unknown:

of do a calculation on that. And I could say, right from that

Unknown:

training, that person would have saved up as one week, two weeks

Unknown:

work. That's a huge amount of time, when you think of it like

Unknown:

that. It's more like calculating things out to to build something

Unknown:

or you know, or the other way around. If there's a cost

Unknown:

saving, that cost saving might only be, say, 1000. But what's

Unknown:

that over five years, if we make that change? If we change that

Unknown:

supply, and we save 1000? What's that going to be is 1000 a

Unknown:

month, you know, that doesn't sound like a big figure. But

Unknown:

over the year, that's 12,000. If we do it to other departments

Unknown:

that could then turn into 36,000. Over the years, that's

Unknown:

going to be you know, that could be so many headcount. It's

Unknown:

checked, that's how you create a story. It's almost like, you

Unknown:

know, there's different elements and different layers to it, and

Unknown:

how can we either expand it or put a different slant on it to

Unknown:

get it to mean more. That also comes into that a bit onto the I

Unknown:

suppose its data visualization as well, if you were using a

Unknown:

PowerPoint, it's, there's there's a story around the data.

Unknown:

So let's say you're doing a presentation, and it's facts and

Unknown:

figures. And you've got a graph on a slide, perhaps because we

Unknown:

do it, but the updates, the person looking at that graph,

Unknown:

could be getting something very different from it, depending on

Unknown:

who they are, and what's relevant to them. So for

Unknown:

example, the could be let's say, we were looking at figures from

Unknown:

last month to this month, some figures could be static, some

Unknown:

could have gone down, some could have gone up, what are we trying

Unknown:

to say from that information? What's important to our

Unknown:

audience? For example, it could be something stayed the same.

Unknown:

Why haven't we gotten the growth? We need to focus on

Unknown:

that, because there hasn't been any growth? Perhaps something's

Unknown:

declined. And that could be, you know, maybe it was near misses

Unknown:

of declines? That's great. What were we doing there? What can we

Unknown:

reproduce in other areas of the business to get that to happen

Unknown:

elsewhere? Perhaps it's a growth in something. So okay, what

Unknown:

happened there to get that to grow? How can we get that growth

Unknown:

in the other areas of the business? It's almost about

Unknown:

focusing on the part that's relevant to the audience. And I

Unknown:

suppose that leads on to the fact that the audience are

Unknown:

really our biggest, most important thing here. And it's

Unknown:

thinking about what the audience need to hear. What's the message

Unknown:

they, you know, you could have same part of same piece of data.

Unknown:

But one audience could. It could be a different message to one

Unknown:

audience compared to another audience. Even though it's the

Unknown:

same bit of data, we're presented with same

Unknown:

presentation. It's around thinking of our audience, as

Unknown:

well and what they need to hear and what's relevant to them.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, I think that's that's really important.

Lee Griffith:

No, I, I get flashbacks quite often to when I was a comms

Lee Griffith:

director. And I would have many an argument with people who

Lee Griffith:

would basically say, oh, I need a slide deck of information. But

Lee Griffith:

actually what what they needed was a report or a board paper,

Lee Griffith:

it definitely wasn't a slide deck to present to people. And

Lee Griffith:

probably everyone listening to this as as sat in a meeting or

Lee Griffith:

two, where you're just reading the slides that someone's got,

Lee Griffith:

rather than paying any attention to the person in front of you.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, and, but we can't seem to break out of that cycle. But it

Lee Griffith:

just seems to perpetuate in organizations. So I suppose my

Lee Griffith:

question and you've touched on it a bit around the world of

Lee Griffith:

free and focusing in on what that that message for that

Lee Griffith:

audience might be? But how can a leader start to especially rip

Lee Griffith:

up the rulebook? Although it's not a great rule book, but rip

Lee Griffith:

it up and start and break that cycle? I

Unknown:

suppose. It can be hard when a company's always done it

Unknown:

that way? Because that's what people are expecting to see. I

Unknown:

think one of the one of the worst things, I would sees too

Unknown:

much information on the slide. I mean, I see it over and over

Unknown:

again, too much information on slide. Audience not been able to

Unknown:

read it, audience not been able to see it, why bother? Why have

Unknown:

you got a PowerPoint slide deck that has all this information on

Unknown:

that nobody can see. There's so many different things you can do

Unknown:

with PowerPoint. And I guess people may not be aware of

Unknown:

things you can do. So for example, you can create movies,

Unknown:

with PowerPoints, you can create animation, and you can export it

Unknown:

as an mp4 file. That will be a completely different scenario,

Unknown:

of course, just standing at the keynote and delivering a

Unknown:

presentation. And then you've got the internal type meetings.

Unknown:

And also you've got what we call slide payments, which is really

Unknown:

a document they with PowerPoint. So they're going to be all

Unknown:

created in very, very different ways for those audiences. I

Unknown:

suppose that's where I was touching on the audience and

Unknown:

thinking about the audience. Who is it? That's going to be

Unknown:

consuming that PowerPoint? And in what format? Is it something

Unknown:

that's going to be read by people think a common mistake

Unknown:

people have is that they assume that the same PowerPoint slides

Unknown:

will work for any audience in any scenario. And they don't,

Unknown:

they absolutely do not. I was at a presentation recently by one

Unknown:

of the big four auditing companies. And one of the people

Unknown:

were presenting, and this person kept saying, as you can see from

Unknown:

the slides. The text on the slide was a handout slide

Unknown:

basically. So I couldn't see anything from the slides. I

Unknown:

couldn't even read the title of the slide. That's how poor the

Unknown:

presentation was. The presentation was a perfect

Unknown:

handout to be sent around as a PDF afterwards, it was not

Unknown:

preset for presenting in front of an audience. And then I did

Unknown:

actually offer feedback, and I got to speak to their the EAA,

Unknown:

who had created the slides. And interestingly enough, she said

Unknown:

to me, we tried to tell them this for years, and they're not

Unknown:

listening. So it's really great to have some feedback. So now I

Unknown:

can say, Can we please try it my way, where she would have been

Unknown:

two decks, she would have a deck to hand out, which would have

Unknown:

been perfect the PDF, and she would have done a pared down

Unknown:

deck with a lot less content on it people could read.

Lee Griffith:

How do you determine I suppose what you

Lee Griffith:

need, whether actually what you're giving is a speech versus

Lee Griffith:

a presentation, or whether you need some slides to illustrate

Lee Griffith:

your point, or you're just using them as some visual filler to

Lee Griffith:

help guide through or get people thinking, when you might need

Lee Griffith:

text versus photos, for example, how do you start to determine

Lee Griffith:

the approach that's gonna have the best impact and work for you

Lee Griffith:

as a presenter as

Unknown:

well? Yeah, I have a, an approach called the three

Unknown:

pillars. I call it three pillars of PowerPoint. And I suppose the

Unknown:

end result of that is do you need a deck at all? Which kind

Unknown:

of leads leads nicely into this conversation? So the first

Unknown:

pillar is people who we were who were presenting on, which we've

Unknown:

already sort of touched on, there might be a keynote in

Unknown:

front of 1000 people, it could be presented to the board, it

Unknown:

could be presented to your team. So that's that's who it is to

Unknown:

start with, and not just who it is, but how well do you know

Unknown:

those people? Man, what are they looking for out of your

Unknown:

presentation? What did what did they need to get for your

Unknown:

presentation? Okay, so people first, then we have purpose. Why

Unknown:

are you presenting? And when I ask people that question, why

Unknown:

are you presenting? I get answers like, because my boss

Unknown:

has asked me to Yeah, yeah, that's not the reason why you're

Unknown:

presenting. Okay, so that's something that I really try and

Unknown:

get people to think about. Why are you presenting If you're

Unknown:

trying to get some information across, you're trying to inform

Unknown:

people about something you're trying to inspire people, or

Unknown:

does it inform, inspire and influence? So we've got three

Unknown:

eyes there, as to what we're trying to do. You know, why? Why

Unknown:

are we presented, there's always a reason why we're presenting

Unknown:

otherwise we wouldn't be presenting. Just people don't

Unknown:

really think of it in that way. And what I say to people is that

Unknown:

if there's a purpose for presenting, we should have a

Unknown:

call to action. Now, the call to action doesn't need to be by now

Unknown:

or the price goes up 500%. Tomorrow, you know, it's not

Unknown:

that type of call to action, like you'll see on social media,

Unknown:

it can be a very subtle call to action. For example, let's say

Unknown:

we're informing people, staff, maybe this is a staff update,

Unknown:

maybe it's team depending on how things are running. We're

Unknown:

informing people of a new staff update of a new staff appraisal

Unknown:

system, sorry, new staff appraisal system. And we've gone

Unknown:

through some of the top level information in a presentation,

Unknown:

we want to get people to go away, think about what they've

Unknown:

seen, read some more information and come back to us by a certain

Unknown:

date. That could be our call to action. Right? We've done the

Unknown:

initial presentation now, can you go away, read the

Unknown:

information that's at this location and come back with any

Unknown:

questions by 4pm on Wednesday, if we don't have a call to

Unknown:

action, that's quite a subtle one. But it's still nevertheless

Unknown:

telling people what we want the next steps to be from their

Unknown:

side. Those people or some of those people might have very

Unknown:

good intentions of going away and reading that bit of

Unknown:

information. However, they're busy, Sunday comes off, they

Unknown:

have another deadline. If they don't know that you want them to

Unknown:

do it by 4pm. On Wednesday, they might not get around to it for

Unknown:

three weeks time. And by that time, it's too late, because

Unknown:

you've moved on to the next step. And it's because you

Unknown:

didn't have a call to action. So it can be very, very subtle. But

Unknown:

we need to what I would recommend is that we finish on a

Unknown:

call to action. What do you want people to do at the end of the

Unknown:

presentation? Yeah. Perhaps we want them to get them to think a

Unknown:

little bit more. So perhaps it's a question we asked them, not as

Unknown:

if we want you to go away and read this and combat, you know,

Unknown:

that's more like a given them a deadline. But perhaps we want

Unknown:

them to go and think about what improvements can we make in the

Unknown:

canteen, you know, that's something to think about, you

Unknown:

know, perhaps it's something like that, that we end on a call

Unknown:

to action. If we are presenting to executive committee, or

Unknown:

various committees, and we're looking for buy in for

Unknown:

something, maybe we actually need to say these are the next

Unknown:

steps. I'm looking for approval from you to sign off on the

Unknown:

funds. And after you've done that this is going to happen,

Unknown:

and this is going to happen. This is going to happen. But the

Unknown:

first step is you're approving. So that's the that's the call to

Unknown:

action. I want you to approve this not this much in funds, I

Unknown:

can go and run this project. Yeah.

Lee Griffith:

I think that say you've hit on a couple of things

Lee Griffith:

there that that come up in the conversations that I have with

Lee Griffith:

the people that I work with, and and they often say are not

Lee Griffith:

getting the board buy in on X, Y and Zed. And then when we talk

Lee Griffith:

through and I go well, what's the what's the clarity in your

Lee Griffith:

message? What are you? What were you hoping to achieve? What do

Lee Griffith:

they what are they likely to be interested and want to hear from

Lee Griffith:

you? And have you managed their expectations around what's going

Lee Griffith:

to happen as a result of this conversation? And often it's Oh,

Lee Griffith:

no, no, no, no. And I think leaders and leaders particularly

Lee Griffith:

can think about what I'm trying to achieve what I need to get

Lee Griffith:

out of this conversation where I'm going and they they don't

Lee Griffith:

take that beat to go. Hang on a minute, I can only do what I can

Lee Griffith:

do if I know what these people want to hear and do and say am I

Lee Griffith:

likely to respond to what I want? Yeah.

Unknown:

Yeah, I was running a software implementation project

Unknown:

as a consultant. And I investigated three systems and

Unknown:

was asked to present the board. So I presented to the board and

Unknown:

gave an overview of three systems. So it was a slide had a

Unknown:

bit of information on they can ask for more information if they

Unknown:

wanted to. I'd gave the information. And I had a slide

Unknown:

next saying next steps are the next steps were you agreed to

Unknown:

funds. I asked for the invoice, you pay the invoice, I get

Unknown:

access to the system and implementation starts. So that

Unknown:

was my ask, I want you to agree the funds to go with supplier x.

Unknown:

So you've had a quick overview of the other two suppliers. I've

Unknown:

you know, we've done our due diligence to make sure that we

Unknown:

have that data there. They've seen that data. Half an hour

Unknown:

later I got a response. Yes, go ahead. But the feedback I had

Unknown:

was that it was the best presentation that they had ever

Unknown:

experienced. Because I asked I had a call to action. And I

Unknown:

asked them I want you to approve to do this rather than here's an

Unknown:

overview of my findings and letting them go through and say

Unknown:

well, what should we do? I was taking that just trying to take

Unknown:

that decision away from them and say, they're paying us a

Unknown:

consult. This is what I want you to do. This is the system that I

Unknown:

recommend I just need you to confirm that you're happy to do

Unknown:

that. Yeah. And people later I got my Yes, go ahead. People

Lee Griffith:

can get so frustrated that, oh, well, I've

Lee Griffith:

done this presentation, or I've presented this case or whatever

Lee Griffith:

it might be. And people went off on a tangent or people got into

Lee Griffith:

the detail, and I didn't want them to do that. And what were

Lee Griffith:

the conditions that you said it moved before you even started?

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, if there's something

Unknown:

there that isn't up for discussion, when you're

Unknown:

presenting, there's no harm in saying that. We all know this is

Unknown:

on the table. That's not for discussion today, say to the

Unknown:

beginning, and then nobody can ask you any questions? Or if

Unknown:

they do, you can say, the beginning, we agreed that that's

Unknown:

not for discussions. That's not the topic that we're discussing

Unknown:

today. We're actually here to discuss this. So I'll take

Unknown:

questions on this. Because if you're presenting, you're in

Unknown:

control, so you can set those boundaries. Yeah. And another

Unknown:

tip as well, is questions, questions, either a question

Unknown:

slide, or even if you're not doing a slide questions, what I

Unknown:

would commonly see is people finishing with questions. And I

Unknown:

would recommend that you don't do that. The reason being that

Unknown:

you could two things, or two main reasons, I suppose you

Unknown:

could get no questions at all. Or if it's, if you're

Unknown:

presenting, if you present it to the executive, probably a bit

Unknown:

more informal, because then they're gonna say, oh, that's

Unknown:

fine. And you know, you'll, you'll go off the, let's say,

Unknown:

it's a staff update type environment, or, you know, a bit

Unknown:

more formal environment, you could get no questions. And then

Unknown:

you stand in there thinking, well, I finished my

Unknown:

presentation, I don't have any questions. Do I sit down? Do I

Unknown:

stand here for a bit longer?

Unknown:

How long do I leave it until I say, Oh, no questions, then sit

Unknown:

down. Another thing is, you could get asked a question that

Unknown:

you can't answer.

Unknown:

So what's your plan for that? What are you going to do? If you

Unknown:

get a question that you can't answer? If I get asked questions

Unknown:

in training that I can't answer, if I'm in an in person training,

Unknown:

I have a whiteboard. The answer that sorry, the question goes on

Unknown:

the whiteboard, and who's asked it, so I can come back to them

Unknown:

afterwards? What's your plan? If you get asked a question you

Unknown:

can't answer? Okay. The other thing is that you could, you

Unknown:

know, some could be somebody in the audience who is trying to

Unknown:

derail you a little bit and asking you a purposely awkward

Unknown:

question. So you've got that as well. So what would people

Unknown:

remember at the end of your presentation? If you get asked

Unknown:

that really sticky question. You know, maybe it's somebody trying

Unknown:

to be smart, maybe it's the one you can't answer. And that's it

Unknown:

the presentation is over. They're most likely remember? Or

Unknown:

was that awkward? At the end of their when you know, that

Unknown:

question was asked and or the look on their face when they

Unknown:

couldn't answer it. The what I would advise is, it's okay to

Unknown:

have questions, but don't have questions as your final part of

Unknown:

your presentation. If you have questions, or a question, slide,

Unknown:

have another slide afterwards, so that you can move swiftly on.

Unknown:

And you can summarize and you can get the call to action. So

Unknown:

even if you say, does anybody have any questions, and there

Unknown:

isn't any questions, you could decide how long I'm going to

Unknown:

leave it for? I'll count down a few seconds. What have you and

Unknown:

you can say, Okay, let's move on. You move on. You've got your

Unknown:

summary. You finish on a nice, powerful, strong ending that

Unknown:

started that's what people would remember.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, that I think that's really helpful advice,

Lee Griffith:

because we've all I can I can, yeah, I'm getting, I'm getting

Lee Griffith:

those images of meetings, where the presenter ends up just

Lee Griffith:

randomly calling on people and asking them questions in the

Lee Griffith:

spirit to start conversation. Just stop it, stop it.

Unknown:

And another one, if you do want to encourage questions,

Unknown:

maybe it is something like the example I used earlier with a

Unknown:

new performance management system, that type of thing, and

Unknown:

you want to encourage questions, you can always plan to question

Unknown:

the audience or say to somebody get a colleague and say, Look,

Unknown:

you know, can you think of a question to ask somebody that

Unknown:

you know, is going to ask something, you know, or you can

Unknown:

say, Would you ask this question, get them to ask a

Unknown:

specific question, and that might start things off, and then

Unknown:

other people might feel a bit more comfortable of asking them

Unknown:

as well. Yeah, that's another another tip, you could try.

Lee Griffith:

I was thinking as you were talking about some of

Lee Griffith:

the challenges that that people come up against when they are

Lee Griffith:

presented. And the other one that I've seen happen is when

Lee Griffith:

the audience almost go dead behind the eyes. So if they

Lee Griffith:

switch off quite literally, or they're on their phones, and

Lee Griffith:

they're just not engaging with you, and you're just getting the

Lee Griffith:

sense that you are not landing in the way you should what what

Lee Griffith:

do you do in those types of circumstances?

Unknown:

Yeah, that one is a very good question. I think it's

Unknown:

a case of changing your tack and pretty quickly. Now. That's

Unknown:

something that's going to be a lot more challenging for, let's

Unknown:

say, inexperienced speakers because if you have Have your

Unknown:

presentation. And I don't mean that solely slides. But if you

Unknown:

have your presentation planned out, and then you realize it's

Unknown:

not going very well, you've got to change how things are done.

Unknown:

And that can be quite challenging. I think as a as an

Unknown:

inexperienced presenter. It's the type of thing that if that

Unknown:

really happens to you, you're probably maybe think of some

Unknown:

things afterwards. But it might be a bit challenging at the

Unknown:

time. You could. I've seen some presenters do some interesting

Unknown:

things where they have, they've started asking the audience

Unknown:

questions rather than asking for questions. But they've started

Unknown:

off in a really interesting way. Well, that's where they'll say,

Unknown:

right, let's warm up on questions. We're going to

Unknown:

practice a question, though, who had breakfast this morning? Put

Unknown:

your hands up. You know, and then obviously, people, most

Unknown:

people put their hands up. Okay, you got the idea of how it's

Unknown:

gonna go. So they can start asking questions to get a bit of

Unknown:

buy in from the audience. But But starting off, rather than,

Unknown:

say, a really, really complicated question that

Unknown:

probably no one's going to answer. Or if you answer it, you

Unknown:

think you might be then put on the spot by having to elaborate

Unknown:

more, because you've answered the question. They start off

Unknown:

with hands off. And that can get people out of that sort of, you

Unknown:

know, glazed eye, environment or, or mindset or what have you.

Unknown:

So yeah, start asking questions. But rather than making it

Unknown:

difficult for the audience, start by doing a hands off easy

Unknown:

questions. You know, that they can just put the hands up and

Unknown:

say, okay, yeah, I get the hang of this. And then you could

Unknown:

start maybe asking something a little bit more specific. But it

Unknown:

might be that you don't expect people to actually answer that

Unknown:

they'll do a hands off type thing, because that's a bit

Unknown:

easier for people. Yeah, yeah, that would probably shake them

Unknown:

out of their slumber.

Lee Griffith:

Moving to a bit of a broader topic, but one that

Lee Griffith:

some leaders will want to have a bit more of a platform for their

Lee Griffith:

views, perhaps they're establishing themselves as a

Lee Griffith:

thought leader, maybe they've got some strategic imperative in

Lee Griffith:

the organization, which means they need to have a higher

Lee Griffith:

profile, regionally, nationally, internationally, whatever that

Lee Griffith:

might be. So they start going to the big conferences, the big

Lee Griffith:

events to share what they are doing or their organization are

Lee Griffith:

doing. And they are going to be very different events to those

Lee Griffith:

in house local set pieces. So what should people be mindful of

Lee Griffith:

if they're making that transition to the bigger scale

Unknown:

events? Yeah, that's that's a very good question.

Unknown:

Most of those events will be looking for slides. Yeah,

Unknown:

majority of them. Some of them are paddles. Speaking, I suppose

Unknown:

that's a little bit different. But if you're up on stage,

Unknown:

there's a good chance you're going to have slides. First

Unknown:

thing you want to do is find out from the organizers, what setup

Unknown:

you have, what slide size do you have? What what you'll find is

Unknown:

that most larger conference type facilities will have widescreen

Unknown:

projectors, we're not projectors, but sorry,

Unknown:

widescreen equipment. If you are in a hotel environment, a lot of

Unknown:

hotels still have overhead projectors. They're not like the

Unknown:

old fashioned ones that used to be sitting on the table in the

Unknown:

meeting room. Yeah, we've moved on from those a bit. But they

Unknown:

are I actually went to a hotel recently, and they just had to

Unknown:

refurbish. And they had the most amazing case I've ever seen. So

Unknown:

they had they pressed a button. And this concertina type thing

Unknown:

came down from the ceiling with this massive overhead projector

Unknown:

on it, that then shone onto the screen. It was also wedding

Unknown:

venue, which I think most hotels for these type of functions

Unknown:

would be. So that would go back up into the ceiling. And then

Unknown:

the screen goes up when they have weddings in there, for

Unknown:

example. Now the reason I'm mentioning that is that all the

Unknown:

reason I'm mentioning the difference in equipment is that

Unknown:

the slide size is different when you're presenting. Alright, so

Unknown:

if you are presenting an our default in PowerPoint is

Unknown:

widescreen. If you've got an overhead projector, and you're

Unknown:

presenting a widescreen, you lose a third of your slide. It's

Unknown:

just a black bar. So you've got a black bar at the top and the

Unknown:

bottom. So the first thing I would want to know is what slide

Unknown:

size do I need? What equipment have we got? So overhead

Unknown:

projector is standard slide size, and some form of monitor

Unknown:

or, you know, really large equipment that's going to go

Unknown:

through rather than the light shining on it is going to be

Unknown:

widescreen, which is the default. So most of our

Unknown:

corporate templates are going to be widescreen, a lot of

Unknown:

companies will also have an OHP size or this the standard slide

Unknown:

size template as well for these events. So that's something to

Unknown:

find out because otherwise you're missing some of this size

Unknown:

of the slides to start with. I would also want to know what the

Unknown:

setup is going to be like in relation to what what you're

Unknown:

going to see as the presenter. I went to a conference in

Unknown:

Birmingham at any point last month, and I was so impressed by

Unknown:

the setup that I got up on stage after asking the organizers

Unknown:

asked if I could take a picture of the setup for the speakers.

Unknown:

screen behind them was absolutely huge. And onstage,

Unknown:

probably about level with the stage, there were two widescreen

Unknown:

monitors. One had the slide that the audience were looking at on

Unknown:

it. And the other one had the Presenter View where the

Unknown:

presenters could see their bullets there notes embodied for

Unknown:

that was perfect, because it meant that nobody had to turn

Unknown:

around to look at the screen. So I would want to know, from

Unknown:

anybody who was organizing that event, what's that setup going

Unknown:

to be like? Because then you'll know if you can rely on the

Unknown:

presenter view, or not. I see pictures, almost every day of

Unknown:

people on LinkedIn, that are presenting at an event and

Unknown:

there's a picture they go, here's me presenting at this

Unknown:

event, and the pictures of them turning around, pointing at a

Unknown:

screen behind them. And that is because now it's probably not

Unknown:

their fault. If if they haven't set that up. Because there's not

Unknown:

they can't see what slide they're on. So of course, they

Unknown:

have to turn around because they can't see what often I see

Unknown:

people setting up events, and they've got a laptop, and it's

Unknown:

right at the back somewhere. It's no good at the back. So if

Unknown:

you're doing any event organizing, it needs to be

Unknown:

somewhere where the speaker can see it. Yeah, otherwise, they

Unknown:

don't know what slide they're on. They've got a clicker, a

Unknown:

Wireless Presenter, they could have clicked it twice, and they

Unknown:

can't see they don't know. So they have to keep turning

Unknown:

around. So it's, it's real shame to have that environment. So

Unknown:

that's the type of thing I would want to know, I'd want to know

Unknown:

what slide side I was slide size I was using, I would want to

Unknown:

know, where is this? Is there a laptop? Am I going to be able to

Unknown:

see it? Where is it going to be? Is it going to be close by to

Unknown:

me? What's that setup? And then I suppose the third thing, this

Unknown:

isn't necessarily something to ask the organizers. But from the

Unknown:

you know, I'm assuming that you're using slides here. Think

Unknown:

about the size of the room, how big is that room, how many

Unknown:

attendees are going to be in it? If it's 100 people, it's big

Unknown:

enough. People that are sitting down the back of the room will

Unknown:

not be able to read text on your slides. So you need to have full

Unknown:

bleed images. And you need to have a word or two not

Unknown:

sentences, not complex diagrams, not lots of small pictures,

Unknown:

because nobody will be able to see them. Yeah. What a couple of

Unknown:

words maximum, and images, images that are going to portray

Unknown:

your message. Yeah. Okay, or blank slide with literally a

Unknown:

couple of words on. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Very, very simple.

Lee Griffith:

Minimal, less is more, isn't it with you. You've

Lee Griffith:

touched on a point, which I just wanted to explore a bit further,

Lee Griffith:

which is the how a leader preps in their presentation because

Lee Griffith:

you reference that they might be looking down at the screen to

Lee Griffith:

see their bullet point notes. Now I've worked with leaders

Lee Griffith:

that don't like any notes, and will try and memorize it, like

Lee Griffith:

it's a script or a speech and just, you know, verbal diarrhea

Lee Griffith:

when they get on the stage because they've they've tried to

Lee Griffith:

retain it all in their head. I've had people who have to take

Lee Griffith:

physical papers up with them. We've loaded scribbles all over

Lee Griffith:

just fine prompt them of what they're saying. Then I have

Lee Griffith:

people who maybe one or two bullets just to do as a

Lee Griffith:

reminder. What would you say is the the best approach what what

Lee Griffith:

really works from an audience point of view?

Unknown:

I think if you don't have Well, first of all, the

Unknown:

only place the bullet points is in the present notes. Yeah. I

Unknown:

would want to see any presented notes in PowerPoint in paragraph

Unknown:

or sentence because you'll be reading them then or your well

Unknown:

you can't see them. So the place for bullets is in your notes. If

Unknown:

you're able to see that content. I don't think there's anything

Unknown:

wrong with having like flashcards. And I actually have

Unknown:

two here. And I know we're on audio only. But just to give an

Unknown:

example. And hopefully you'll hear this, I've got a piece of

Unknown:

paper. That's what you hear when I'm holding my piece of paper.

Unknown:

If I've got a piece of card, just be able to hear that it's

Unknown:

much, much less noise. So if I was going to be having any

Unknown:

notes, and I was going up on stage with those, I would have

Unknown:

flashcards. So they're like this the small sort of revision

Unknown:

cards. I mean, yeah, revision cards. And you can put a couple

Unknown:

of bullets on those. So that if you need to glance down to

Unknown:

remind you of that fifth point that you need to mention, you

Unknown:

can see it there. And I don't think that's going to hamper the

Unknown:

presentation that you're giving even if you don't have slides, I

Unknown:

think that's okay to do that if you need to. What you'll find as

Unknown:

you get more practice is that you don't need them because

Unknown:

you'll remember those points if you structure your presentation

Unknown:

well. And that's where the those rule of threes comes in, because

Unknown:

it's very easy for you to remember them as well. Yeah, and

Unknown:

don't forget, you know, your presentation. You know, it's not

Unknown:

like this is an ad hoc speaking where you don't know the topic

Unknown:

and you know, you're just speaking about something you're

Unknown:

that's unknown to you, you know that you know your topic and you

Unknown:

know your topic very well. If you're up on that stage, you're

Unknown:

an expert, so it's more around remembering to Get those

Unknown:

messages across and making sure that we we have those three

Unknown:

points. So we remember those three things. And that's why

Unknown:

breaking it down into those threes really helps when we're

Unknown:

delivering. Yeah, our presentations

Lee Griffith:

and the practice in, as you said, at the very

Lee Griffith:

beginning, yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah. Can we talk about

Lee Griffith:

introverted leaders, because I'm maybe stereotyping here, there's

Lee Griffith:

probably some some introverts who do love presenting, there's

Lee Griffith:

probably some extroverts who hate presenting, but in the main

Lee Griffith:

and introverted leaders tend to be the ones that are least

Lee Griffith:

likely to want to be up on stage or center for attention. And I

Lee Griffith:

know, as an introvert, for me, I used to hate the fact that, I

Lee Griffith:

would worry because I'm very pale skinned, I'd get on stage,

Lee Griffith:

or just because my nervous energy would be coming up, I'd

Lee Griffith:

go bright red. And I'd be thinking about that, before I'd

Lee Griffith:

even go on to present or I'm going to turn red. What are they

Lee Griffith:

going to think they're going to, I was getting very self

Lee Griffith:

conscious about people judging me around that, and I was

Lee Griffith:

probably perpetuating the issue. But it made me think when I was

Lee Griffith:

reflecting before today, of how do you if you're someone who

Lee Griffith:

physically doesn't like the idea about getting up to present, you

Lee Griffith:

might feel very comfortable with the topic and all of that, but

Lee Griffith:

actually, just the pure form of eyes are going to be on me, and

Lee Griffith:

I don't like that. How do you start to create the right

Lee Griffith:

conditions, I suppose that you begin to feel more comfortable

Lee Griffith:

in those situations.

Unknown:

First of all, I'm one of those introverts that goes

Unknown:

very red as well. So

Lee Griffith:

reunite.

Unknown:

That's exactly what I like. I think, with practice,

Unknown:

again, it diminishes somewhat, I'm not going to say that's

Unknown:

gonna go away, because for some people, it's never gonna go

Unknown:

away. One tip I've heard, I haven't actually used this tip,

Unknown:

but I have heard this tip. And it makes sense when you think

Unknown:

about it. Obviously, there's wearing the right type of

Unknown:

clothes. So things that you're going to be, you know, you might

Unknown:

be cold when you're sitting in the audience getting ready to

Unknown:

stand up, but then when you stand up, you're not going to

Unknown:

overheat. Because if you're like me, and you, as you've just

Unknown:

said, there, it's that that that physical going red, and I'm

Unknown:

generating loads of heat, and that's going to make me go even

Unknown:

more red. So making sure that I've got cool clothes on, that

Unknown:

aren't going to get me hotter and hotter. So maybe it's

Unknown:

something you know, maybe there's a jacket you can take

Unknown:

off before you stand off or something like that to be cooler

Unknown:

in the first place. Another tip I have heard is having a cold

Unknown:

water bottle. right with you. Because if you put your hands

Unknown:

around that, that can really help call you down. Now I always

Unknown:

remember in my home economics class, we were always told to if

Unknown:

we were making pastries, and things like that on a really hot

Unknown:

summer's day, we had to go down to the taps the cold water, tap

Unknown:

and run cold water on your wrists. No, it's called your

Unknown:

hands down so that when you're making the pastry wasn't all

Unknown:

horrible and sticky. This is a real hot summer's day. So it's

Unknown:

kind of the same as that really, because the blood then from your

Unknown:

wrist is running all the way back, it helps call the rest of

Unknown:

you down. And I think that's the, I suppose the same sort of

Unknown:

phenomena with the speaking. So maybe it's a bottle of cold

Unknown:

water, I'd like glass bottle of water, you know, because that's

Unknown:

really going to happen, I'm not suggesting you put it on your

Unknown:

forehead or anything like that I just made holding at hand. You

Unknown:

know, so it's no, we're not gonna be doing that. But I've

Unknown:

just

Lee Griffith:

been just putting it around, opening it over my

Lee Griffith:

head.

Unknown:

But just having something to hold in your hand,

Unknown:

can help pull you down. And it's I mean, I don't know whether

Unknown:

that's a psychological thing or a physiological thing. But

Unknown:

that's, that's a tip that I've heard other people say and can

Unknown:

be quite good, just having some prompt there that you can put

Unknown:

your hand on, and it can help ground you a little bit. And

Unknown:

maybe it's doing something as well.

Lee Griffith:

I've certainly found and someone once told me

Lee Griffith:

off for doing it. So you can tell me if I was right or wrong.

Lee Griffith:

But I use my hands a lot. And I noticed that I would get redder

Lee Griffith:

and more heated. So I found actually just putting my hand in

Lee Griffith:

my pocket and just it would make me feel more relaxed and casual.

Lee Griffith:

And it was felt more conversational than I'm formally

Lee Griffith:

presenting. And I've got to do these grand things with my

Lee Griffith:

hands. And so just doing that grounded me, someone, as I say

Lee Griffith:

someone did feedback going, Oh, you you are too informal. And I

Lee Griffith:

thought well, actually, that's me and Saudi. I wondered, are

Lee Griffith:

there things that you, you know, rules you should or shouldn't

Lee Griffith:

follow in terms of your body language? And was I doing the

Lee Griffith:

wrong thing?

Unknown:

I think it would be. I mean, there's this there's two

Unknown:

ways of looking at that if you were a confident present We

Unknown:

didn't have any nerves, then that's probably not the best

Unknown:

thing to be doing. So it's thinking about things that would

Unknown:

work for the scenario that you have when you're presenting. So

Unknown:

as you said, You've got feedback saying, Oh, you're a bit casual,

Unknown:

but if it helps you overheating and going bright red, and then

Unknown:

everyone we're looking at, you're thinking, what's going on

Unknown:

there? Then, then it's, it's okay, isn't it, you know, I

Unknown:

think people can move their hands too much, they can be

Unknown:

waving their arms all over the place. And that can be very

Unknown:

distracting. So as a rule, you sort of want to be able to

Unknown:

probably about half a meter. So if you think of the, it's 25

Unknown:

centimetres, either way, from your center point is about all

Unknown:

you really want to move your your hands. If you're making a,

Unknown:

maybe you're making a statement that you're talking about, you

Unknown:

know, something down the future, then obviously, you might put

Unknown:

your hand right out to the side, because that's making you know,

Unknown:

you're you're making a statement about something you're talking

Unknown:

about in the future. But you don't want to be waving your

Unknown:

hands that far, while the whole time while you're presented

Unknown:

because that is going to be distracting. If you tend to be

Unknown:

on another thing is if you've got a clicker that can hit that

Unknown:

could be something to hold in your hands. So that can help

Unknown:

people feel a little bit more grounded by having something

Unknown:

like that Wireless Presenter. Another tip is to find a way to

Unknown:

hold your hands around where your son was just below your

Unknown:

navel, I suppose somewhere around there, because that's

Unknown:

sort of a nice center point. Obviously, you don't want to be

Unknown:

crossing your arms because it's cross very negative. hands in

Unknown:

the pockets can be a little bit too formal. If you're able to,

Unknown:

it's almost like not classifying your hands, but maybe it's sort

Unknown:

of like holding your finger and your thumb or, you know, just

Unknown:

holding your thumb on one hand and try to find a way how that

Unknown:

looks casually. Now that's something you can practice in

Unknown:

the mirror. Okay, so that could be your hands resting points.

Unknown:

And then if you are using your hands to make a gesture, the

Unknown:

gesture comes from that place and goes back to that place so

Unknown:

that you're not waving them all around the whole presentation,

Unknown:

which is very distracting. That that could be something there

Unknown:

where you've got your hands in that sort of resting place, and

Unknown:

then you're then you're using your gestures, so that gestures

Unknown:

so that they're not all over the place. Yeah, yeah. And another

Unknown:

thing people can be foot tappers, they can be swaying

Unknown:

from side to side on their feet. You know, people have biros one

Unknown:

of the things that I would do if I had a buyer out, do it now

Unknown:

here I'd be clicking pi, which drives people mad. Yeah. So I

Unknown:

don't hold biros because they're actually a negative thing for

Unknown:

me, because I'm click, click, click, click clicking, which is

Unknown:

not good. And again, that's something that you know, if

Unknown:

there's someone in the audience that you can ask for feedback

Unknown:

from, that's valid, getting some feedback on what your habits

Unknown:

might be, from the standing point of view. Yeah. What are

Unknown:

you doing that's distracting? What what could you change a

Unknown:

little bit? How could you make that feel better. I mean, also,

Unknown:

just standing in one place isn't great either. Sometimes you do

Unknown:

need to move around. If you were on stage, you'd want to sort of

Unknown:

have a couple of steps and move around. I spoke at an event in

Unknown:

Vienna last year. And it was a sort of PowerPoint

Unknown:

demonstration, I did a bit of a presentation to start with a

Unknown:

bed, I sat down at my desk because I was doing a

Unknown:

demonstration. But I was very conscious that if I did the

Unknown:

presentation from sitting down at the desk, it's a bit too

Unknown:

static. So when I was presenting, I made sure that I

Unknown:

was standing up and I was walking around for the 10

Unknown:

minutes that I was actually presenting. And then I said

Unknown:

right into demonstration, and now I have to sit at the desk.

Unknown:

Otherwise, people are looking at me just sitting in front of a

Unknown:

desk for an hour. Yes. Not not great. Now, obviously, I needed

Unknown:

to be working with PowerPoint. So it had to be the part of the

Unknown:

presentation. But I was very conscious that I wanted to move

Unknown:

around to make sure that I was making eye contact with people

Unknown:

in different places, different areas of the room. Otherwise,

Unknown:

people might not have even been able to see me behind the desk.

Unknown:

So it's important that we think about things like that. Yeah,

Unknown:

that's another one eye contact, really important that we make

Unknown:

eye contact, try and make eye contact with everybody as much

Unknown:

as we can, of course, because you know, there's 1000s of

Unknown:

people in a, in a auditorium, that's not going to work. But

Unknown:

also not not have that eye contact for too much time.

Unknown:

Because we can make people uncomfortable. It's a couple of

Unknown:

seconds, and then move on to the next person. But try make sure

Unknown:

that we've at least looked at everybody in the room and got

Unknown:

everybody's eye contact at some time. What people can do is if

Unknown:

somebody's looking at the presenter, they tend to latch on

Unknown:

to that person and then that person can't look away then or

Unknown:

break the eye contact. So it's, you know, it's it again, it's a

Unknown:

skill, it's a skill. Yeah. Well, I'm conscious

Lee Griffith:

of our time and we could be talking forever but

Lee Griffith:

I've my final question is, what's the one piece of advice

Lee Griffith:

that you want our listeners to take away about being a more

Lee Griffith:

impactful speaker?

Unknown:

I think it's practice has to be practice because The

Unknown:

more you practice, the better you will get. You'll feel less

Unknown:

nervous. If you do feel nervous, you'll come across better, there

Unknown:

will be less arms and asked all about practice. To elaborate on

Unknown:

that, if I was getting ready to do a small speech for

Unknown:

Toastmasters, I will be practicing in my office out

Unknown:

loud, talking to nobody. Just to practice saying that out loud.

Unknown:

Now, it wouldn't necessarily be word for word because you don't

Unknown:

want it to be that or I wouldn't want it to be that structured

Unknown:

that it would be exact word for word, just to practice so that

Unknown:

you know the flow, you know where you're going to go next.

Unknown:

And that your brain is used to it. And then when you stand up,

Unknown:

do it, it is somewhat easier. Never practice in your head. I

Unknown:

heard people say, oh, yeah, I have practiced and they they're

Unknown:

sitting there going through in their head at their desk. That's

Unknown:

not the same. It's not the same saying it in your head, you'll

Unknown:

say much quicker. You're not practicing getting those words

Unknown:

out. If there's a word that you tend to stumble over, remove it,

Unknown:

find another one. You know, there's something that you get

Unknown:

when you every time you try and say it, get rid of it and find

Unknown:

one that works. I want it's easier on the tongue for you.

Unknown:

But if you don't practice you don't know. Now you you know,

Unknown:

there could be things like that, that you find more difficult.

Lee Griffith:

Things look and sound very different when

Lee Griffith:

they're flat on a piece of paper versus when you're trying to

Lee Griffith:

articulate them out loud and the message that you think you're

Lee Griffith:

conveying can come across completely differently. So yeah,

Lee Griffith:

completely concur with with that point. Well, thank you so much

Lee Griffith:

for your time, Fiona. If people want to get in touch with you

Lee Griffith:

got any questions? Where can they find you online?

Unknown:

The best place to find me is on LinkedIn. If you search

Unknown:

for Fiona Walsh and PowerPoint, you will find me brilliant,

Lee Griffith:

and we'll put all your links in the show notes

Lee Griffith:

too. Thank you again. If you enjoyed the episode, please

Lee Griffith:

leave a review on Apple podcasts and let me know what you thought

Lee Griffith:

on LinkedIn. You can find me at the Griffith I'll be back with

Lee Griffith:

the next episode in two weeks time. So in the meantime, sign

Lee Griffith:

up to my newsletter at Sundayskies.com for monthly

Lee Griffith:

insights on how else you can lead with impact. Until next time,

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