Afzal Mangal, former founder of IoT Creators at Deutsche Telekom and founder of Hello Things, talks about why most IoT companies are solving the wrong problem. After years building and scaling IoT platforms inside a global telecom, Afzal argues that the biggest constraint in IoT isn’t technology — it’s momentum.

In this conversation, he explains why marketing is consistently undervalued in IoT, why the industry must “sell the problem before the solution,” and how companies across the value chain — from device makers to network operators — share responsibility for developing the market. Using practical examples, including temperature monitoring in pharma and everyday connected devices that users don’t even recognize as IoT, Afzal makes the case that adoption fails when the category itself isn’t clearly understood.

He also discusses Hello Things, his new initiative focused on collective market development. Rather than leaving ecosystem growth to chance, Afzal proposes coordinated storytelling and consistent messaging to move IoT beyond its internal bubble and into mainstream decision-making. For LoRaWAN professionals, this is particularly relevant: he highlights how authentic community-driven engagement has given LoRaWAN an edge over traditional cellular IoT approaches.

The episode also explores how small engineering-heavy teams can use AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity as practical co-pilots for research, strategy, and messaging without sacrificing technical integrity. For founders, engineers, and ecosystem builders alike, Afzal’s perspective reframes IoT growth as a business discipline, not just a technical one.

Guest Links

Afzal on LinkedIn

Afzal on the web

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Today's guest on Medio Scientific's.

2

The business of Laurin is Afzal Monger,

an IoT strategist,

3

former founder of Deutsche Telecom's IoT

4

creators, author and the mind

behind the new Hello Things initiative.

5

Marcel has spent

6

years working at the intersection

of connectivity, product and go to market,

7

and he's best known for a clear,

sometimes uncomfortable argument.

8

Most IoT problems aren't technical.

9

They're marketing and adoption problems.

10

In this conversation, we dig into

why IoT companies struggle to create

11

momentum, why the industry often

12

needs to sell the problem

before it can sell the solution,

13

and how LoRaWAN has succeeded in areas

where other IoT technologies have lagged.

14

We also talk about what Hello Things

is trying to fix at an ecosystem level,

15

why engineers shouldn't

dismiss marketing outright,

16

and how small teams can use AI tools

17

to communicate their work more effectively

without turning it into fluff.

18

This episode is sponsored

by the Helium Foundation and is dedicated

19

to spreading knowledge about LoRaWAN.

20

If you'd like to try Helium’s

publicly available global LoRaWAN for free

21

and support

the show, sign up at metsci.show/console.

22

Now let's dig into the conversation

with Afzal Mangal.

23

Afzal,

thanks so much for coming on the show.

24

I'm super excited to have you here.

25

Yeah same here.

26

And actually I wanted to say before

the session started, when there are beep

27

I tend to provide, the audience will know

like this is a real conversation.

28

Yeah. True fact.

29

That's useful.

30

I try and make most of these conversations

where I come into it, not having had

31

this whole pre conversation with you,

and we don't have a canned piece.

32

And with that,

the first question I've got for you is

33

you're well known for saying like hey,

IoT has got marketing problems.

34

And we were just talking

about some of the issues that IoT has.

35

If you were thrown into a random

IoT company, you know, tomorrow

36

you wake up and you've been assigned

like you're working for this company.

37

Whatever job you want.

38

What are the two things or maybe three?

39

You know,

you're going to have to fix that.

40

They're kind of wrong

with almost every IoT company.

41

What things you think you'd be

working on first? Marketing.

42

But maybe

43

maybe specify like random IoT company.

44

Is it like a like an integrator

or someone doing because everyone else

45

has a different definition, right.

46

When we talk about it,

maybe, maybe, maybe.

47

Tell me about your definition first,

because this is even the first time

48

that you and I are meeting.

49

Yeah. Yeah.

50

So maybe we just define it

pretty broadly as any company where IoT

51

is their first line of business,

whether they're a hardware manufacturer,

52

whether they're offering software,

or whether they're doing some integration,

53

whatever it is across the board,

they all seem to have, you know, reading

54

the the book, you've got this IoT hype

no one knows about.

55

They all seem

to have some pretty common problems

56

that usually have nothing to do

with the technology.

57

Okay, so you know my definition

because you have read the book

58

and looking at what you just said,

we have a similar definition,

59

but I still think that my answer

would be the same.

60

Marketing is the most undervalued

side of business in the world.

61

In any business, but it hurts most in IoT

because that's the industry

62

or the category that needs marketing most.

63

So yes, in one word, that is what I would

try to fix in any IoT company.

64

And the other thing is that

I would also invest some time and effort

65

in a step

that maybe even sits before marketing,

66

and that is creating momentum

or getting people

67

used to the idea of connecting

the physical world to the digital world.

68

And I think,

69

you know, regardless

of your position in the value chain,

70

even when you are a semiconductor

and you never see and uses of IoT,

71

even then, I think you have

a responsibility to invest a bit

72

in this activity, creating momentum.

73

Okay. Can you define that?

What do you mean by that?

74

What I mean by that is that

if you sell these guys, then your customer

75

no knows exactly why, but you need it

76

to stay reachable to reach others.

77

Okay.

78

And by these guys, for people listening,

you mean a phone a phone.

79

Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.

80

Oh, yeah. Sorry.

81

This is without a seat for people

who are not watching the video.

82

Yeah, yeah.

83

And if you sell microwaves,

then your customer knows exactly why.

84

Why you need some microwaves.

85

Yeah,

but that's not the case for IoT solutions.

86

Even when the value is clear,

they are not used to the category yet.

87

The category of connecting the physical

or the digital world,

88

they're not used to it.

89

So it's a category

that you still need to explain.

90

And when I say explaining, it's

not only highlighting the value

91

or the business case,

but also highlighting the fact

92

that this is becoming normal

and it's even inevitable.

93

Right.

94

And this must be the wound versus bandage

problem that you were talking about.

95

Is that. Yeah.

96

So the good way to describe it,

can you go into that

97

for the folks who are listening

who may not have heard this?

98

Yeah.

99

So what I mean by that is, look,

if I, if I do Google meets or Microsoft

100

Teams and any video meeting today

except for this one,

101

then there is another entity

that also joins

102

the conversation

and that is my fireflies note taker,

103

which I love,

and I cannot live without it anymore.

104

But before this note taker existed,

105

I never saw it as a problem that I didn't

have a note taker joining my meetings.

106

It was never a problem.

107

The solution didn't exist.

108

So the problem was also not visible.

109

You know, it's crazy.

110

So you had to be around because normally,

you know,

111

a lot of smart people in

112

this industry are like,

we have to sell solutions for a problem,

113

but actually we have to sell the problem

first.

114

Yeah.

115

Yeah, that's

I think that's good sales 101.

116

And maybe that's the piece that people

come into is just, you know, problem

117

discovery for the customer.

118

And then from there, once

you figure out the problem then you see

119

does it fit and where does it fit

and how does it fit.

120

And what can I do to solve this problem.

121

But as you say, if you don't know

about it, very difficult to solve it.

122

Yeah, exactly.

123

Ignorance.

124

Ignorance is a well covering blanket issue

125

because now

I took another example that IoT.

126

But if you look at pharma, for example,

127

the fact that they throw away

very expensive medication

128

every month, waste

tens of thousands of dollars or euros,

129

they don't see it as a problem

because they think it's a given.

130

It's a given that sometimes

a human being makes a mistake

131

and keeps the door of the fridge open

for longer time than we want.

132

Yep. So let's just, you know, we put it

in our business case for this year,

133

and it's a given

134

that we are going to waste medication,

that we are going to waste money.

135

And they don't see this as a problem

136

because they just don't know

that there is solution for it.

137

For the people who are new to

the solution, I'm talking about the sensor

138

on alerts when a door of a fridge is open

for a certain time, right?

139

I was it's funny

because it's such basic stuff that,

140

you know, generally

I know what folks are talking about

141

when they're talking

142

about some IoT solution, but I can easily

imagine someone saying like what?

143

How would you ever solve that problem?

That's impossible.

144

Yeah, exactly.

145

And is that even a problem?

146

Like, oh no, we just like,

147

we know we're going to spend ten grand

on throwing medicine away.

148

Like that's just part of the

the price of doing business.

149

And yeah, it sounds like it's not okay.

150

Tell me about hello things.

151

We'll kind of jump around a little bit,

but I saw this just popped up.

152

What's, what's going on with hello things.

153

Hello things.

154

So Hello things is a side project

that I recently started.

155

You know, that

I've been working at Deutsche Telekom,

156

the mother company of T-Mobile. Yep.

157

And I've been running a startup

for the Deutsche Telekom,

158

which was called IoT creators.

159

That startup is now resting in peace,

at least the sales channel and the brand.

160

The platform is still up and running,

but maybe we can talk about it later.

161

So I left Deutsche Telekom

last year in November,

162

and I have some time left right now.

163

And I thought, you know,

let me do something about the problem

164

that I'm complaining about already

for years, the fact that we we don't spend

165

collectively, we fail to do market

development, market as a market education.

166

Because I also realized that

167

it's actually very obvious

that no one is doing it.

168

And you can't blame anyone

for not doing it.

169

The reason for that

is because no one knows how to do it,

170

and no one knows when it's going to work.

171

So it's it's like an investment

that you cannot justify.

172

You know, we still have to figure out

for all industries

173

how we should

and how we can create momentum.

174

And for healthcare,

175

it will be completely different

than for agriculture, for example.

176

So it's it's not even when a big company,

a large company like T-Mobile

177

or AWS is going to invest

like one FTE in market development.

178

Not even then.

179

It's you can justify it because

it's unclear what's going to happen.

180

So I thought, okay,

but it still has to be done. Yep.

181

So what if it's what

what if it's a joint investment?

182

The collective investment.

183

That's basically how hello things started.

184

So what I'm going to do simply is together

with the Alliance members,

185

simply triple momentum.

186

Take stories, existing stories

from the members, success stories

187

about IoT adoption, how it adds value,

188

but then making sure that these stories

are also reaching the right audience.

189

And that's not not staying

inside the IoT bubble or LinkedIn.

190

That's one part of the job.

191

The other part of the job that I think is

going to do is create some consistency,

192

because we have a lot of IoT

success stories out there,

193

in podcasts,

at events, on stage, on LinkedIn.

194

But it's not only a problem

that they never reach the end customer.

195

The other problem is that there is no

consistent way of talking to the market.

196

And if you do that together

with an alliance, then

197

you can create some consistency. Got it.

198

And for someone listening, you know, this

this podcast has this kind of hard

199

core of Laura, Laura, when listeners, who

200

is there something that you'd say, look,

I get that you're an engineer

201

and you think that marketing

is a waste of time.

202

Like, I understand that.

203

Let's just assume that you want to try

204

marketing for a week

or a weekend or a month.

205

What would you say for the first

1 to 3 things

206

that they should at least ask questions

about and get their curiosity triggered?

207

Because I found once,

208

once engineers curiosity is triggered

than they do a fantastic job.

209

But a lot of times they're just like,

I'm focused on the problem.

210

Let me search,

try to win some trust here, okay?

211

I have two backgrounds network

engineering and marketing communication.

212

I know how to write code.

213

Okay. In some languages I have my CCNa.

214

I know how to troubleshoot

Cisco and Juniper Networks.

215

Okay.

216

But you know, the thing is marketing

is it's a waste of time.

217

If you feel that it is marketing.

218

And marketing is not a waste of time when

you don't feel that, hey, this is Mark.

219

They know if most of your listeners

220

are coming from the LoRaWAN community,

221

they are probably in the LoRaWAN community

because of the community

222

engagement activities of the things

the things network or helium.

223

Right? Sure.

And that was marketing as well.

224

You know, setting up a discord server

that's marketing,

225

having a monthly call to talk about

technology, that's marketing.

226

So I know why why engineers

don't usually don't like marketing,

227

because most of the marketing,

especially from big companies, large

228

companies,

it's usually bad, it's very cheap.

229

And you know, right away

when you see a commercial

230

or when you read a white paper

like the hey, this is BS marketing.

231

If it comes from from those guys,

the large companies.

232

And that's maybe also a reason why,

233

LoRaWAN is far ahead

of the cellular IoT technologies,

234

because they've invested

235

the Lora

Alliance has invested in some marketing.

236

Yeah, and in real marketing.

237

Authentic marketing maybe.

238

Okay. Yeah.

239

And is there a specific piece

or kind of set of advice

240

that you would give, or is it just like,

hey guys,

241

this is something that will change

your company.

242

It's worth investigating,

assuming that most of the listeners

243

are into LoRaWAN devices developing,

244

maintaining LoRaWAN devices.

245

The only advice that I could give

246

is, just talk about it a bit more.

247

And outside your bubble that especially,

you know, in the last two months,

248

I'm having a lot of chats

with end to end solution providers in IoT,

249

because I want to have a big variety

of device makers

250

in the alliance, because then only

then I will have enough stories to tell.

251

And most of these companies

are small companies

252

with 5 or 6 people.

253

Let's say if it's we talk about a company

with six people,

254

then slice and a half are, are focusing

on development and engineering,

255

and a half is focusing on communication.

256

Sure.

257

And I think right now, like collectively,

there are always exceptions.

258

But collectively, as an industry,

we already overengineered.

259

Now it's time to talk about it.

260

So maybe this is a nice time

to talk about what you had recently.

261

Looks like you done for your daughter.

262

This Group eight app that you've created,

263

which was with, as far as I can

tell, was probably

264

you and I working together to say, hey,

can I code this thing up pretty quickly?

265

This has been something that I think

is transformative that a lot of folks

266

aren't doing.

267

But maybe let's talk about

how you integrate AI into your marketing

268

strategy as a company with six engineers,

269

and half of one of those engineers

has to deal with marketing.

270

Yeah.

271

Is this something where you say, like,

look, here's how I'd use it.

272

I didn't expect this question,

but I love it.

273

Okay. Yeah.

274

This app, because, you know,

275

she has to pick a new school next year

after she turns 12.

276

But every time we visit the school

and we ask the question like, hey,

277

how do you feel that you like it?

She doesn't answer the question.

278

So I just created this app

279

and she can read the different schools

based on smileys emojis.

280

And yes, I used lovable for that one. Yep.

281

And it really took me

20 minutes. I'm not.

282

Not more than that. Yep.

283

And how to use AI in your marketing?

284

I mean, let's start with the LMS.

285

And I would like to share my experience,

with the LMS

286

because these days it's,

287

I think, a hype among the real

288

AI experts to say that

289

cloud, you know, is destroying ChatGPT.

290

When I

291

started hello things, I thought, you know,

let me let me create a management team.

292

And the management team is perplexity

clouds.

293

And, and ChatGPT I share everything

what I do with these three tools

294

and all the meetings that I have,

I make sure that I anonymize like the,

295

the company details and, that,

first and last name.

296

And I share it with the,

with these tools and,

297

and then I ask a lot of questions like,

hey what do you think that I should do?

298

What kind of, focus areas

do you see right now.

299

My takeaway from that

300

after doing that for two months

is that perplexity didn't surprise me.

301

I mean, it's helpful,

302

but I already knew that perplexity

is going to be my head of research.

303

Market research.

304

Okay?

305

And it's fulfilling

that job in a amazing way.

306

But, you know,

when it comes to cloud and ChatGPT,

307

I really ask myself,

who's going to be the co-CEO?

308

And the co-CEO, it's simply ChatGPT.

309

But because cloud is cloud

is more like like this CEO that you hire

310

in the early phase of the startup

to make sure that there is execution.

311

So cloud, you know, analyze everything,

all your input and then comes up

312

with a very tangible plan

like this is what you should do a, B, c,

313

blue points

with very concrete activities.

314

ChatGPT is really the

the colleague was challenging me

315

my way of thinking,

showing me other perspectives.

316

But I also have to admit

that I had to train

317

ChatGPT for a long time to stop the B.S..

318

And tell me stuff that I don't want to

hear.

319

Right.

320

It is super supportive over time.

321

Yeah. Supply. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Oh that's a great idea.

322

You want to make a satellite

in your garage with rubber bands and spit.

323

Here's how to do it.

324

You're like oh that's exactly that.

325

And it'd be very important to to that to

that is that if you are going to use it,

326

if you're an engineering company

and you want to use these tools

327

for marketing, it's very important

that you tell them the same.

328

Like stop the B.S.,

don't tell me what I like to hear.

329

Tell me, tell me the other stuff.

330

Yeah, yeah, it's funny because I meet

I meet engineers all the time

331

at conferences and they ask, oh,

what do you know? What do you do?

332

And I said, I do marketing for LoRaWAN.

333

And as soon as I say marketing,

they kind of roll their eyes like, oh,

334

here's another dummy coming along.

335

And I think, like, look,

we're all on the same team

336

and what you do is super important,

but if nobody knows about it,

337

then it doesn't get you.

338

So and what I do,

I think is pretty important.

339

But if you don't build the thing,

there's nothing for me to talk about.

340

And so it's like these two pieces

of a really important

341

if you want a successful IoT businesses,

you have to have great product.

342

You have to have the engineers design

something that'll work,

343

and then you have to have people

344

who know about it

and understand how it solves the problem.

345

And so rather than it being a thing,

it's like, oh, I guess I have to do that.

346

It's like, God, it's

nice to have a right and a left hand.

347

They're very useful to have both arms

348

and, you know, no one I,

349

no one would look at a human

would be like, man, it would be way better

350

to have like a wicked strong right arm

that does everything and no left arm.

351

Yes. It just seems that's

how a lot of the engineers

352

I meet are like now works to do right arm

only man,

353

when I pull up,

it's all the way down the line.

354

If if

355

so, let's see.

356

When you published the book, the IoT.

357

It's the hype that no one knows

about what was.

358

And that was last spring.

359

I think.

360

I ordered a copy and got it within

like a week or two.

361

So. Right.

362

So it's spring of 2025,

something like that.

363

Right before MWC,

right before I moved. See?

364

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I got it back.

365

I was I guess I was early,

so I think that's right when I got it.

366

Has there been any surprising feedback

where someone wrote in and said

367

whatever it was, you're like, oh,

I actually didn't think of that at all.

368

Or if I had to rewrite the book,

I would totally change that. No.

369

I feel like I got everything right.

370

I do have a very bad review on Amazon.

371

Yeah, and it's visible because just 3

or 2 people a day read it on Amazon.

372

Okay. Well,

go on and I'll read a nice one.

373

Thanks I appreciate that.

374

Yeah.

375

The thing is that

376

I'm sure that there is negative feedback,

but I just don't hear about it.

377

A feedback that,

I mean, most of the people who read

378

it were like, hey, we're like send like,

hey, this is exactly what I wanted to say.

379

But I don't know how

or this is the problem

380

that I'm facing already since

I started in this, this IoT business.

381

But I never knew how

to overcome the challenges.

382

And then there is also a lot of feedback

that people gave me to challenge me,

383

because I made a lot of comparisons

between IoT and I.

384

The feedback is usually but that's not

that's not fair

385

because IoT involves hardware

and AI doesn't involve hardware there.

386

Right.

387

But the comparison

was always based on adoption

388

and the stuff that the community managers

and the marketing people of the

389

AI companies are doing versus

the IoT companies.

390

But for some reason, I don't know, people

391

still think it's not fair

that I made that comparison.

392

Yeah, I can see it making sense

because AI is so easy

393

for a normal person to use, right?

394

They just get on, they go to chatgpt.com

or whatever your PCs.

395

Yeah. And you're using it like that.

396

Whereas with IoT

I've got a drawer full of sensors.

397

I think like most, I have people.

398

Yeah.

399

Where I'll deploy one

to solve a problem that I have.

400

And that will be a very specific problem

that there's, you know, maybe

401

only 1 or 2 other ways to fix it

or to solve it,

402

but even deploying it, I mean, I've been

doing this for a couple of years now.

403

It's still like,

oh, I've got to get for LoRaWAN.

404

I got to get the UI right, and

I got to do this API and we've changed.

405

We've updated this

and this is how it works.

406

Now, it's certainly from my perspective,

not as easy to use IoT is I.

407

So I can see that people make this

comparison like it's an unfair thing.

408

Yeah.

409

The flip side is like,

hey, when you want to compete and win,

410

you've got to understand

the playing field. Yeah.

411

And then you, you know, it's

the only way you can win now.

412

That's right.

413

But on the other hand,

I would say, you know, for my daughter,

414

it was very easy to use her bike's

records.

415

It's just that

416

if I wouldn't have been her father, no

one would have told her that this is IoT.

417

You know, and for my mom, it's

very easy to use her phone

418

to manage the climate system

in the living room.

419

But no one tells her that it is IoT.

420

And that is the, you know, comparison

that I.

421

That I made many times in the book. Yeah.

422

Because when they

when they used that shipped, they know

423

that it is AI or when they use Canva.

424

Yeah. To create a birthday invitation.

425

They know that they're using AI.

426

You know, that makes the category

of the technological concept

427

more clear and the hats of the mainstream.

428

And that's what we never did in IoT,

429

is just making sure people understand

when they're using it.

430

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

431

Whether you're using a weather station

or people calendar or whatever.

432

Okay.

433

I had a question about, the you had a

helium lens on the IoT creators platform.

434

Yeah.

435

Was there anything in there

that you found like, oh,

436

this is much easier, much harder.

437

This was, you know, a problem because of

XYZ or it was easy because of ABC.

438

I'd love to hear your thoughts

on using the helium on us.

439

It's it's already a year or two ago.

440

And it was, if I recall correctly, it was

it was a chip stack setup.

441

Yeah.

442

I mean, it was easy to set up.

443

Very easy.

444

We just had to wait

445

a couple of months before the helium team

themselves were ready.

446

They had to give us these, like, certain

IDs that you need to have a new set up.

447

A neural network server. Yes. Yep.

448

So there was no complexity.

449

It was.

450

It's just that that took longer

than expected because of that.

451

Yeah.

452

And it was also very easy to use

for our customers.

453

It's just that it

it didn't really take off

454

because I

that had nothing to do with, with helium.

455

I know that

helium is also facing challenges

456

when it comes to adoption,

but in this case

457

it had nothing to do with them.

458

It was more digital.

459

Com, you know, an organization

that is not really a sense

460

of, these other services.

461

Right? Okay.

462

Yeah.

463

No, it's it's always it's

always good to hear feedback from folks.

464

I run my own illness and most of the time

people just get on and it works.

465

And every so often someone was like,

oh, this is, you know, some, some issue.

466

And it's unfortunate,

but every time it's been operator error,

467

except for, I think every time

except twice, it's been operator error.

468

And that was just like, all right,

these things break occasionally.

469

Here's how to fix them.

470

Yeah, exactly. But, yeah.

471

Yeah.

472

It's it's a it's kind of this complicated

but super cool thing.

473

So it's still fascinating.

474

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean definitely a place to think.

475

I think your core thesis

about the integration of the digital in

476

the physical is where a ton of value gets

generated over the next 5 to 10 years,

477

and, that makes that makes it right

at the very kind of center

478

of some of the most valuable

things are going to happen.

479

But a lot of people are going to miss out

because they don't know about IoT.

480

So thank you for writing the book

and thank you for reading it.

481

Super cool dude.

482

Well, thanks a ton for coming on.

483

I know you're, super busy with all

your various things, as we all are.

484

We've all got a million projects.

Appreciate carving out time.

485

Thank you for having me.

486

Was a great conversation.

Yeah. Thanks. So much, guys.

487

That's it for

this episode of The Business of LoRaWAN.

488

If you want to go deeper

and actually deploy devices,

489

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Console is the fastest way to do that.

490

And honestly, it's

also the best way to support the show.

491

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492

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493

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494

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495

Huge thanks to the sponsor of the show,

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496

for supporting open LoRaWAN

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497

Check them out at Helium.Foundation

and if the show has been

498

useful, a quick rating or review

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499

This really helps

500

people find it and helps the show grow

so we can help more people.

501

I'm Nik Hawks with Meteo Scientific.

502

I'll catch you on the next episode.