This episode features two conversations I had at CES as part of TRB Conversations, powered by EX.CO. First, a discussion with Vox Media CRO Geoff Schiller on the company’s bet on talent-led franchises, and why podcasts have become the proving ground for individuals over institutions. Vox has leaned into shows like Pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway and A Touch More with Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe, treating talent development less like scale media and more like a studio model. Then, a conversation with Mark Floreani, CEO of FloSports, on the rise of niche sports and the power of owning IP end to end—from registration and ticketing to broadcast and fan experience.

Welcome to a special bonus episode of the Rebooting Show.

This is Brian Morrisey.

the following episode features highlights from TRB conversations

at CESA live podcast recording.

We held in collaboration with our friends at EXCO in Las Vegas earlier this month.

In the first conversation I spoke to Vox Media, CRO Geoff Schiller about v's.

Big bet on talent.

I think of Vox as a prime example of a publisher that has adapted its

business model to the reality that more often than not individual, Trump

institutions in the information space, Vox is home to talent like Kara Swisher,

Scott Galloway, Sue Bird, and Moore.

Geoff and I discuss, how Vox looks to create franchises around its talent.

and it's a, it's a really fascinating conversation.

In the second conversation, I, spoke with Mark Floe, the CEO of Flow sports.

You know, sports media has been on tear the last few years as advertiser.

Demand for sports adjacency keeps growing.

flow sports focuses on niche sports like cheer.

Wrestling, swimming and more.

and Mark and I talk about the economics of streaming and how flow builds diversified

revenue streams around its programming.

another fascinating conversation.

I wanna thank, Exco for its support and, making this program possible.

And thank you to everyone who came out for the live recording.

now enjoy my conversations with Geoff and Mark.

welcome to TRB Conversations, at CES powered by Xco.

joined by Geoff Schiller, the Chief Revenue Officer at Vox Media.

macro trend of the year.

I, I think this is an easy one.

It's gonna be around talent.

I think you guys have, have done, I don't wanna say actually, you guys have

done a really good job and I think it's been kind of underrated with how much.

V's.

Business has changed and has particularly changed around embracing talent.

I think this is something that every institutional media brand is trying to

figure out, because look, the, the, the energy I feel like in the media space

is more towards individual talent, whether that's on Substack beehive,

whether that's on YouTube or podcast.

Do you wanna do a plug for your substack?

no, because I'm on beehive.

Okay.

so, tell me about like, how Vox is changing around talent.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I think over the last, you know, few years, you know, five, six years

we've invested to the point where now we're the largest independent

podcast network and our expression of talent is through the pod.

The pod has gone from being an audio only medium to now audio, video, IRL,

and it's sort of really leaned in and, and, and encroached upon like

true kind of creator based businesses because our talent, they're, they're

creators and they're just platforms.

We're giving them that platform, whether it's obviously like our sales and

marketing capabilities, our production capabilities, studios, whatever it is.

But, that evolution from pod to creator has really given us a, a

sort of competitively advantage.

position in the marketplace to now say, not only are we number one in

terms of reach and scale, but we have this talent that's unique to

us and we can express, their sort of point of view in, in different ways.

Right.

And you're striking different kinds of deals.

No, I mean, you're probably dealing with agents and whatnot because I mean,

what I think is interesting, it's like some are like owned and operated, right?

Mm-hmm.

But then you have different types of relationships.

I mean, I think probably the most prominent one would be with Kara

Swisher and Scott Galloway, around the, pivot and, and the other podcast.

I mean, those have different economics too, right?

Yeah.

You know, I, I, I think, those have been well covered, you know, in terms of.

Deal structures and incentives and all of those things.

But I, well, I mean,

Scott loves to open the trench coat, so that's like very helpful.

Exactly.

But I, but I think to your point, there's like definitely, a wide array of, of

deals and, and I think for the most part, you know, outside of our quote

unquote O and os, yeah, we, you know, we're dealing with talent and their

production companies and their agents.

and I think because we become such a flywheel.

There's a trust factor that we're big, but we're not massive.

we care about talent first and foremost.

You know, like we, not to sort of be derivative, but to be derivative.

We like to sort of say that box media podcast networks is like the HBO of

podcasting, where we're a home for talent, to nurture them, to build trust, and it's

not just like this massive scale play.

And so that gives us the ability to create partnerships.

Business partnerships.

Right.

versus just more, but that's totally

different.

The, the pillow fell down.

Yeah.

that's, that's completely different than an a employer.

They're slick.

yeah.

Very employer employee relationship.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I knew this is, this is the way this is always going to end, Geoff,

uh, chief Revenue Officer.

I, I respect that.

so.

You know that those are different types of relationships that you end up having.

I saw like, like Seth Matlin, like from Forbes is, is, and

that was like, that surprised me.

'cause I mean, he was always running the, the, the cmo, what was it?

The CMO club?

What is it?

Yeah.

CMO network.

The CMO network at, at Forbes.

Now he's going over to Vox, but as part of his own companie, he struck a partnership.

Absolutely.

So he will have his own podcast that he'll have the CMOs that attend his CMO summit.

On, as guests and talk about a variety of issues.

So it's really building him out, you know, outside of where he was at Forbes, into

his own entity in partnership with us.

And that gives us, you know, the unique ability when you look at our

channel verticals to say, okay, from like a thought leadership perspective,

you have Scott and Kara, which are like tech, politics, whatever.

You have Seth now, which is more B2B.

so you have.

Optionality.

and again, you know, we want to build these channels out in a way

that's diversified so that we're not just leaning on one sector.

you know, I know that you talked earlier about you know,

the, the pickleball bubble.

But the, the bubble of anything ai, like, we don't want to be over

leveraged in one specific space.

So like these deals are partnerships that obviously are grounded in

trust and collaboration, but they're also from our lens a strategic

investment in different areas.

So we're not like tripling down in having Scott and Karen, like

four or five different pods that are very, very similar.

And monetization is beyond advertising for a lot.

'cause I mean, you want to build franchises.

And you guys have never really been, I feel like you guys have never

been completely, I don't know, maybe you're doing more like with events.

I mean, there was like a pivot event for a little while, or maybe

it was just a year in, in Miami.

Well, we just did the pivot tour.

It was a five city tour.

Right.

But that's like

more of a podcast tour tour model.

Totally.

Which is different Yeah.

Than like

No, I remember it was at, I think, Ana Faina.

Yeah, yeah.

Back in the day.

But, look, the Live pod thing is great from a. Client perspective.

If you're a partner of ours, it's a great expression because

it's all hardworking media.

I know when, when we've talked in the past or just like industry, sort of questions

around the ROI of events, a live pod.

Gives you the ability to distribute it because it's recorded both audio,

video, and then you also get the IRL, whether it's sampling or participation.

So we've done, you know, a massive amount of live pods across the,

the landscape, NWSL finals, WNBA, all Star South by Southwest.

We we're, we're gonna be the official podcast stage again this year.

So, that aside as it relates to talent.

Our publishing assets also have that same ability.

So Eater is a community.

We just did Eater under wraps in soho and down in, in lower Manhattan.

And the community came out at scale to interact with the

brand during the holidays.

Taste things, buy things.

So, not unique to the talent.

Quotient is not unique to the pod.

It's just best expressed and most sort of succinctly expressed by one individual.

But our brands are creating franchises that are nurturing that same level of

talent, whether it's like our Let's Do lunch franchise where you have

celebrities at their favorite restaurant.

We just had a viral episode with La h Macy, or PS Fit, which is the number

one fitness franchise on YouTube.

So, talent writ large for us is a priority because differentiation.

Is a priority.

You know, we think with AI, slop, you know, at sort of peak that it's really

important that we're built for this sort of new era of discovery, which is

grounded in we're curating and we're helping people discover things that

they didn't know that they needed.

It's kind of like that old jobsian thing.

It's like no one knew that they needed a smartphone until I created it.

And so our goal is.

Whether it's on the pod side through what Scott and Kara or Megan and

Sue were talking about, or with the brands to be able to say.

Here are things you should taste, touch, experience, whatever.

And that Vox Media being built for that new era of discovery

is, is part of the plan.

Yeah.

So will your strength in podcasting then make that the center of your

sort of YouTube slash video strategy?

It's the most cost effective, absolutely.

So, so short answer is yes, and we're excited about it.

Yeah.

I mean, how do you, do you like, which of the podcasts have

translated the best to video?

You know, both on with Kara Swisher, prof, G, the

pivot, the whole universe.

it's really, really strong.

our pods are all sort of consumed in different places.

If you ask one person, they might tell you that all they, they do is

watch Meghan into on social versus, you know, Vivian too on TikTok.

Versus, you know, Scott and Kara on YouTube.

So it's kind of runs the gamut.

But, I would say all of them pretty much are seeing tremendous growth

on the YouTube, side of the fence.

Okay.

Just 'cause it's like ambient sort of, you know, listing.

I'm still, I'm not like totally sold on, on pi, on, on.

The video podcast, boom.

I mean, we'll see about if the Netflix, you know, bet pays off.

I think, you know, a lot of the YouTube numbers, I wonder, I wanna know how

many of those are people actually watching the podcast on a television

versus having it like in a tab.

I mean, maybe this could be me personally.

It's just like, it's not a behavior that I totally understand.

Yeah.

I mean, look, I, I, I think it depends on who's on the pod, what the format is.

Like some pods more sort of, organically lend themselves to video.

You wanna see the dynamic between, if it's a cohost between the two, and that's

why like a Megan and Sue or a Karen Scott might play better, versus if it's just

one person and you're kind of like, okay.

You know, they're, they're being videoed great, but there's no interplay.

and, and I think like, you know, it's been successful in radio, you know, you see

like the sort of video streams of like, whatever it might be, like WFAN or like

even before that, you know, it's like the Howard Stern show being on video.

So it's like there are use cases that are like 30 years old that are successful.

So, you know, we'll see.

Okay.

Yeah.

And also with video.

I mean, you get to, you get to hug the pillow.

That's the important thing.

I will.

Yeah.

It's my,

it's my, it's, you don't get that with audio.

Exactly.

Geoff,

thank you so much.

Really

appreciate it.

Thank you.

Appreciate it, Brian.

Okay.

Welcome to TRB Conversations at CES Powered by exco.

Joined by Mark Flore, the CEO Co-founder of Flow Sports.

I wanna talk about the macro trends of niche sports.

I'm obsessed like sports are.

obviously.

So much money is flowing into sports with the changes to the media.

Ecosystem has so many different advantages, and first of all, just

so people know, explain flow sports.

flow Sports, is a direct to consumer sports media and technology platform.

We stream over 50,000 events and to put that in perspective, that's the most in

the US by any company, focusing on what we call middle and long tail sports.

And we also produce hundreds of thousands of pieces of content from

podcasts, the videos and software for these sports, to run on.

So when you talk about these, these, these mid and long

tail sports, let's call them niche.

I think they're niche, but, what are we talking about here?

Yeah, I mean, people badminton.

What, what, what else?

We got wrestling, we do cheerleading, we do motor

sports underneath nascar.

everything in hockey underneath the NHL Jujitsu.

Marching band, things like that.

rugby cycling that are more popular, outside the United States.

All of those are kind of in the middle and long tail and, you know, you say niche,

middle and long tail, but the market is now kind of figuring out how big it is.

I mean, recently Washington Post, New York Times said this

is a $40 billion a year market.

We've been at it for 20 years knowing that, hey, that these communities,

that if you add 'em up together, they're gonna be pretty big.

And now the market's starting to realize that.

So give me like, 'cause I think it's interesting because it,

it, it goes into the more specific you can be and the more you can

like, organize around a community is, is the best, place to be in media.

And I think it's something like, like cheerleading.

Yes.

You mentioned right.

I don't have a, a ton of experience in the cheerleading sector.

But I would guess that if you're, if you're into cheerleading.

You're really into cheerleading.

You are into cheerleading.

You are spending your weekends, you're spending your disposable income driving

or flying to these different tournaments.

they have a lot of competitions, too.

Tons of competitions.

I mean, in, cheerleading is the, and varsity who just got bought

by KKR for billions of dollars.

They're the biggest customer of Disney.

They send, they have big events in Disney and they have more people,

more cheerleaders going to Disney to compete than any other organization.

So cheerleading is massive.

They have events with over a hundred thousand people and

there's a passionate rabbit trail.

Wait, a

hundred thousand people go to a cheerleading

event?

Yeah.

Over a weekend.

Right?

Wow.

Yeah, it's the, they have one in Dallas.

They have one in Dallas.

That seems like a kind of thing you would have in Dallas.

Yeah.

I cheerleading, man.

If you actually look at it, it's like, if you like gymnastics, right?

But you have 15 girls and you're throwing them up in the air.

it's very per, you know, precise.

You have to be very strong.

And I wasn't big into cheerleading, but then getting into it, it's a,

it's a pretty competitive sport.

No, they're athletic, there's no,

they're, it's definitely a sport.

Yeah.

So I, I will give them all the credit in the world, but it also,

I think, I feel like sports is so.

It's so hot right now for a couple other Rea.

One is just ip.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

I mean, having IP rights these days, again, that's

where you want to be in media.

and the other is a lot of times.

Particularly these niche sports, I feel like they, they lend

themselves to a lot of different, you know, monetization models.

You can make money in a whole, whole bunch of different ways.

How do you guys play in that, in both those areas?

Yeah, so we have moved into ip, so you know, we have, we

own, three Motor Sports series.

We own a couple combat series and wrestling in Jiujitsu, and we

do that because we really wanna.

Own the full customer experience.

And so the middle and long tail has been very unprofessional for a while.

And so start times are wrong.

You know, the, the events aren't run well.

And by owning the IP, we can then can own it from registration ticketing,

to broadcast times to make sure that we're really delivering a great

customer experience, for the sport.

And then we also own it so we don't have to rent the rights.

Yeah.

So I think about UFCA lot, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I don't think about a lot, but I think about it right now.

it's a complete lie.

but I, I do remember when UFC, I remember reading a New York Times like

magazine article about like whether cage fighting should be banned.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, that's where that started.

And now UFC, for better or worse is, is gonna be, taking place

like on the White House lawn.

Yeah.

and, and.

You know, it has really arrived.

Mm-hmm.

As, as a major, sport and a major, category.

When you're looking at, give me a candidate or two, that could be the next

UFC.

I think, you know, cricket actually could be pretty big.

Oh God, yeah.

Cricket could be pretty.

You're gonna, you're gonna have to

do a good sales job on me for that.

Don't that like a, a match or whatever.

Test last like three days.

Well, if you, they've changed that now.

It's about three hours and it's actually the most valuable rights

outside the NFL is the IPL in India.

motorsports still motorsports.

There is a such a passionate following in motorsports.

That's why we own three series.

Any weekend across the country, there are hundreds of tracks all

over the Midwest that are getting tens of thousands of people.

we're gonna be in, Tulsa, Oklahoma on a dirt track indoors next week, and

we'll have NASCAR drivers racing it.

We'll have, Indy car drivers racing it.

We'll get hundreds of thousands of people to watch.

You know, these different types of motorsports.

So motorsports still has a lot of room to grow in the United States, NASCAR

and F1 obviously on the top, but there's a ton of different genres out there.

How about pickleball?

Pickleball, everyone asks me about pickleball.

We are not in pickleball.

There's, there's a lot of drama in pickleball.

There's a lot, yeah.

A lot of drama and a lot of billionaires fighting it out

over not a lot of viewership.

So we kind of stay away from that.

Okay.

I, because I say, it seems to me that the, the pickleball bubble has mostly deflated

and paddle has, has taken its place mostly because paddle appeals to rich people.

And I think a lot of.

A lot of niche sports, particularly when they, when they appeal to rich people.

Yeah.

They attract a lot, a lot of attention.

I mean, when you're talking about motor sports, it's not like, like F1.

Mm-hmm.

F1 exploded for a bunch of different reasons.

Mm-hmm.

but as a category, you know, the amount of money that gets thrown around

at F1 races is just unbelievable.

Yeah, I mean, that's why

people are trying to make like, you know, yachting and stuff.

The, the next F1.

Yeah.

Yachting will be difficult.

Just the production is really hard.

But yeah.

there is a lot of money obviously in F1, but there's a lot of regular

people that are racing on the weekends, in Ohio and Pennsylvania, that, you

know, this is like in their blood.

So I would say that racing's a little different than, and motorsport's a

little different than pickleball.

Mm-hmm.

But, agree when there's a, a bunch of billionaires fighting out it, it's

not an area that we like to go into.

Okay.

so when you, when you're talking about like your, your monetization,

are you, are you mostly monetizing through, through video or like how are

like, explain how you guys monetize.

Yeah, so of the 50,000 events, right, we stream those live and it's

a subscription to wash most of those.

And so people pay, you know, a premium price point 30 bucks

a month or 150 bucks a year.

And we have well over a million subscribers doing that.

we have advertising and then we have software.

Okay.

Yeah.

Great.

And how do you break that out?

subscription is our oldest and it's about 90%.

And so we're adding those other two to build out, you know, a

more, portfolio of revenue streams.

Yeah.

How about attaching brands to these sports?

I would think that that would be a big opportunity.

Yeah.

So, you know, next week at the Chili Bowl, Chili's is our sponsor and we're bringing

in Tony Stewart to do a pre-race show.

And so, you know, we have.

We've had Kubota, we have, a bunch of shoe companies, Brooks.

Then we create content, we integrate 'em into the broadcast.

Obviously spots and dots and pre-rolls.

But we really wanna integrate them into these communities.

'cause these communities are super passionate.

And once you advertise in these communities, you're actually, as a brand,

you're, you're part of that community.

'cause you know, the community knows that you're investing in it.

And then we invest in the.

The communities ourselves, right?

We're gonna spend over a hundred million dollars into these sports.

We're the biggest spender in terms of rights, fees,

production, content marketing.

And so, when we get brands aligned with us, theyre, they,

the community really likes to go out and, and support those brands.

Okay, mark, thank you so much.

Appreciate it.

Alright,

thank you.