Ever wonder how some photographers make it big while others barely make ends meet? Join me as I sit down with Jane Goodrich, the savvy mind behind Picsello, as we dissect the keys to prosperity in the photography business. Jane, with her keen insights, underscores the need to sharpen your mental acuity, understand the numbers game, and decode the art of pricing to stay ahead in the competitive game.

We delve into the real intricacies of running a photography business, right from deciphering your costs and time spent to finding the sweet spot in pricing your services. Jane and I bring to light the pressing impact of industry data, the rapid pace of change, and the fierce competition posed by social media. We also discuss prudent investments in new gear and how to include the time taken for a photoshoot into your pricing equation.

We wind down our chat by reflecting on the importance of shifting our perspective towards business growth. Jane emphasizes the need to prioritize quality over quantity, foster an abundance mindset, and harness the power of networking. She also introduces us to the wealth of resources available to photographers, including a free trial of Picsello's software, giving you a chance to test the waters before you dive in. Make sure you don't miss out on this enlightening conversation and Jane's generous offer of a 30% discount on Picsello software exclusively for our listeners!

Key Takeaways

(04:10) Starting a Photography Business Challenges

(10:52) Understanding Pricing and Business Mindset

(12:54) Considering Financial Factors in Photography Business

(18:39) Mini Sessions in Photography Are Important

(33:07) Photographers and Market Strategies

Shareable Quotes

"Your photography business is a complex machine, and we'll help you build it steadily. To give you a headstart, Jane shares valuable resources available to photographers, including a free trial of Picsello's software."

"There are a lot of photographers that aren't even on Google, that don't even rank. They don't even need to anymore because they've gotten their repeat clients, so they're also not on Facebook groups. So one of the things is really to sort of open up where you're looking."

"You don't have to have being in a metropolitan area to actually make money, and so likely, I just think really framing it of like there are a lot of people and there is a photographer for everyone. There's not ever gonna be an oversupply of photographers." 

Connect with GUEST

Website: https://www.picsello.com

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/jane.goodrich

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teampicsello/

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/janegoodrich/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/teampicsello

📸 Get a jump start growing your biz! My free guide outlines the 8 things you NEED to grow:

https://photobizhelp.com/8things

Amazing DEALS exclusively for the PBH fam from our brilliant sponsors!

⚡️Pic-Time: get a FREE BONUS month with code PHOTOBIZHELP

✨17Hats: take 50% off your first YEAR with code PHOTOBIZHELP

☀️ StudioQ: get 10% off any studio booking with code PHOTOBIZHELP

❤️SHARE THE LOVE❤️

Rate the PBH podcast here:

https://ratethispodcast.com/pbh

📸 Get a jump start growing your biz! My free guide outlines the 8 things you NEED to grow:

https://photobizhelp.com/8things

Connect:

☀️ IG: https://www.instagram.com/photobizhelp/

💙 Join our FB group HERE!

🌿 https://photobusinesshelp.com/blog/

Tarot & Clarity Coaching:

☽ https://nataliej.co

☽ https://instagram.com/nataliej.co

About Natalie:

Natalie is founder of Photo Business Help & a Minnesota-based portrait photographer. You can connect & learn all about her here:

https://jennings.photo/aboutme

https://photobusinesshelp.com

https://instagram.com/jenningsphoto

https://instagram.com/photobizhelp

About Audrey:  

Audrey is a Minnesota-based wedding & portrait photographer. You can see her amazing photos and learn all about her here:

www.audreynicolephotography.com

https://instagram.com/audreynicolephotography

Produced by:

FullCast

00:00 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

people are willing to pay and they're always going to be. Demand for photography is. You just have to find your clients right, find your ideal client. They can be working for me. It's working busy moms that want they trust me. They know they'll come back each year and again. Your mindset is if you're a family photographer, even newborn photographer, you don't have to continuously do the marketing. They will come back year after year after year. The first few years you have to build up your client base.

00:38 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

01:18

Today I'm talking with Jane Goodrich, the founder of Pixello. We're talking about some of my favorite topics, like mindset and pricing, but we're digging into your numbers and the importance of really knowing your numbers and why, but also some easy mindset shifts that you can make every day in your business to make being on social media and looking at those follows and likes numbers, or just networking with other people and how grow your network that way, and also just different ways to sort of look at this industry. That might help you feel like you're not doing as poorly as you might think you are. Some days. I know we get in our heads, and that's never a good place to stay for too long. So we've got some really great stuff that we're talking about here. Also, jane was kind enough to offer you listeners of the podcast a chance to try her amazing software, pixello. This is the place where you can get all of your numbers figured out for 30% off. She gave Photobiz help a code for 30% off. So if you want to check out Pixello and see what she's all about, do so at Pixello P I C S E L L O dot com and you can shop around there or go to photobizhelpcom. Forward slash PixelloP I C S E L L O if you're ready to get that 30% discount and enter code photo biz help. There's a link to this in the show notes as well, but definitely check that out. That's photo biz help dot com. Forward slash Pixello. Use code photo biz help.

03:07

Before we get into this conversation, here are some words from other folks that support this show. So actually I do kind of want to. We were talking about this a little bit, but I am interested in this idea, not about making this a gender thing, but I am interested in the idea of how, what we've learned as people growing up in a society. So we'll say adults at this point, that are, you know, on their own and adjusted to the world and have been in the world a while like how, what we've learned and what's been sort of indoctrinated or reflected back to us or, however you want to phrase it, how that has affected the way we show up in business.

03:56 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

04:26

The difference between when I started, when people starting now is, I think there's a lot more information out there that is either incorrect, or people are more senior photographers saying, hey, you should just value their worth, or they should just, you know, don't talk about pricing because your work is great, and but I think, fundamentally, it goes to the core of actually understanding what it takes to run a profitable business is actually quite overwhelming, right? So, you see, I think when I started, I think I had a website email on my phone. Right Now you have social media, you have, you know, texting, you have all of this other things, and you have YouTube now, with anybody teaching anything. So newer photographers are so overwhelmed with who to believe, and so I fundamentally believe in their numbers. They don't lie. So the numbers- don't lie.

05:25 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

05:38 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

I've really, you know, so I'd done all this research. My dad is actually a professor. He had retired and I was like, oh well, he can help me. And then the pandemic hit and I just realized, like, well, no one's going to take your boring course, jane, about pricing. And so I actually then I mean, amongst other things, I basically put it together a really simple calculator that it makes it so easy to use. I got all this data In fact, the data is still ongoing just because I'm really I love numbers.

06:09

Yeah, because that's your thing. Yeah, it's my thing and you know, don't tell my photography clients that but I just really love numbers and making sure that, like our numbers are always accurate for what we're giving. So now you have industry numbers about. If you've been in business, you know for years how okay, you've replaced your camera, you've replaced your computer and we all know you replace your computer every three, four years because I mean, if you don't, you're still taking, you're getting so much more time it takes to edit your images because of your computer lagging. So all of these things as a newer photography, you don't realize you're like hey, I just have a camera. I barely have my website up. I actually am just using my Facebook page. I don't have any costs. And so you actually do have costs that are replacement of your camera. And actually it's so. From the data, it's 10,000 last photographers that have been in business four plus years globally. So it's not just the US.

07:11

08:11 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

Well, it's interesting and when you look at your fixed expenses and then you figure out like your minimum sales average and also what factors into that is time, and you said about like getting new steps. So I just got a new camera and a new computer like two weeks ago, and I, of course, have been doing this, as you say, probably about every few years. You gotta upgrade everything and, oh my gosh, so I have the new Mac with all the bells and whistles. I was like I'm doing the whole thing because it's amazing. I was looking at all the new processing power and it is and again, I'm not like sponsored by Apple or anything, but it is saving me so much time, so much time.

08:51

And one of the numbers and we don't have to like spend a lot of time on this, but one of the numbers in all of that figuring not just your expenses is like how much time is it taking you, like how long is it taking you to do this one shoot? Because when you divide all this out, you're probably making like $5 an hour at the end of the day, and I think that's another thing that most new photographers aren't. If you were to say how long does the session take you from start to finish. Like email, the delivery, and they're like I'm not sure, and that's a big one to know because it makes a difference.

09:22 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

09:48 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

So that's so funny.

09:50 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

Yeah, but like so we've done a lot of oh, I'm gonna, I know I'm new, I know it's taking me a while to edit. Right now I'm like it's still gonna take you a while to edit, so don't change that number. So, but it's also to do with the marketing, the accounting, all of that stuff communicating with clients, learning SEO all of that stuff is included. So what I wanted to do was actually figure out how is it just weddings? Has it changed over the years? And it actually has.

10:16

10:52

And I will say, a key phrase that I think a lot of it resonates quite well with people is actually not, if I could give sort of takeaway to somebody I would actually give. Someone is like it's not you charging, it's your business, and your business has costs and you get paid after those costs have been paid for your time and all of the hours that you've worked. So it's not Jane Goodrich charging, it's actually Jane Goodrich photography charging and she pays and that business pays Jane Goodrich hopefully a livable wage after what she's charged for her shoot. So that's sort of like one of the mindset things that I like to help with people sort of wrapping their heads around of like I can't charge that you can.

11:39 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

Yeah, just that shift. I totally agree with you. I was just actually doing some new pricing and experimenting with some new stuff and going through all my numbers this week I mean lots of numbers and when you can see it reflected back to you that it's not you deciding that like, okay, my costs of sales should be lower and that my whatever it is, or costs of goods, whatever it is, that you're looking at, like when the numbers get adjusted and you get this sort of like okay, so this is what my expenses are, this is how much time I have, this is how much I need to make to pay myself and to save and to pay taxes and to do all the things. Like when you're looking at that and it comes out to some like super high number and you're like, oh my gosh, that's just numbers. It's not you like saying like you know what, I think I'm gonna charge a lot because I want to. It's, at the end of the day, if you actually sit down and do these numbers, it makes a difference.

12:38

However, I do recognize that some people are in a tricky position with undervaluing their work and their business because they might be doing this just part time or they might have a partner that is the major breadwinner, and so I think the mindset can be. It's certainly different. One of the first things I ask people when I start coaching them is are you, is this your primary job? Are you trying to make this work or do you have other income streams? Because that is gonna change a lot.

13:07 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

Well, so I've. Actually it's interesting, I think I would have, probably about six months ago I probably would say, yeah, a lot of people really just sort of like, oh, it's just extra income. But I think once people go through the numbers because I coach too on pricing right, so it's my and coach quite a few full time they have a full time job and they're doing this on the side and just saying, okay, well, just put your hat on. Like, if you ever wanted to do this full time, what would you need to charge? And also, your time is money. And the thing about it is is, if you have a full time job or you have a partner that can pay the bills, you can't charge where you can outsource the editing or you can outsource an accountant. I mean, I like numbers, but I don't like accounting. Job number one is like here you go, I outsourced that day one and so, yeah, me too. Yeah, no, I'm like I just no one should have to do that. So that's the one thing is, I think there is a little bit of a misnomer of like, oh, I'm just doing this for travel money. Well, okay, you're charging $100 for a session and you wanna make $10,000 a year. You don't have to do 100 shoots and let's just say it's, you know, at that rate. And on top of that you will have costs. You will have travel costs, you will have time costs and if you're a stay at home moment, you have to hire a babysitter while you're on the shoot. You end up losing money. You might not see it right away, it might be year two, year three, and then you're just putting out and you're like why didn't I spend any weekends with my kids? And you know, and it's sort of like, it's an interesting thing of like, I think, once people can sort of see the numbers and realize it's actually not necessarily them charging, it's a business that's charging, it's really, you know, and because it gives you actually the confidence to sort of say and this is actually where some people in the industry disagree with me they just say actually you shouldn't talk about how the you know the sausage is made or whatever, why, how you have costs. And I actually disagree. I think if someone's coming to you and saying, hey, why did you raise your prices, jane? Why do you have a travel fee? Now I actually read.

15:23

I'm not perfect. I had to redo my numbers quite a few times and one of them was to include a travel fee to New York City. I have $50 in parking. It's a three hours extra than it is my student. I didn't have any travel fees when I had my daughter's like this is stupid, why didn't you charge a travel fee? So I charge a travel fee. I had clients that had Booked me and they like, why do you have a travel fee? Now you know it's more, it's $250 more expensive. And I said well, because I had to redo my pricing for my daughter and I realized I wasn't charging for it.

15:54

If I'm not in your budget, I understand, but that you know there are all these costs associated running a business 100% booked. You know they're talking to you about money. As a photographer, you can talk to them back about your costs. It's not evil, it is factual. You know okay, why have parking? I have tolls, I have gas, I have my time all worth money to me and I think actually your clients respect it Because they know that you're valuing your time like a business. So they're more likely to treat you like a business versus someone that's just doing it to make a little bit extra money. So that's where it actually comes in a little bit of like, but I personally think that you should all talk about it. That's just me, no.

16:38 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

I agree with you. I think there's nothing wrong with that transparency with your clients. I have always been pretty upfront with my clients. Even this year, like I sent out Think it was in like June I sent out an email to my whole list and I said I Am trying to avoid burnout this fall. Here's how you can help. And I just explained to them like I did over a hundred minis between September 1st and on the end of October last year and I'm not gonna do it again Because that's not the business model.

17:07

I kept trying to accommodate people and accommodate people because they were looking for the minis and I said look, I'm gonna include all of the files, like I used to do in my lowest portrait package, but rather than a limit, so you can pick as many as you want if you book with me now and between now and the end of the year, because I don't know how many minis I'm gonna offer and I'd like to. If you're used to doing minis, I realize this is a big income jump or a big price jump. So you know I want to. I wanted to make it a little bit enticing and I personally don't really mind. I always enjoy kind of going back through making the whole story anyway.

17:40

So, and I had so many people, it was really cool to have all these clients of mine say like, oh my gosh, we're totally happy to support you, we know, we love your work, we don't want you to feel burnt out, we totally get it. Blah, blah, blah. And so I had a. I think I had a goal of like 20 people that I wanted to get booked Outside of, you know, with that offer, and it was well over that and so, and now it's all spread out. It was spread out from July to November and it's just. It was just from being, you know, I'm still doing minis, but it probably half as many as last year and uh, it feels great. But it was just telling people like, look like this burnt me out and I don't want to be doing it this way and I also don't really like just going to the park every day and shooting the same scene over and over and.

18:21

I do a couple of nice photos, but, like I want to come to your house, I want to like photograph bedtime routines and baking cookies and just hanging out like that's what I want to do and that's what you used to hire me to do, so that's what we're gonna start doing again. I basically just said like that's what's happening and I think is interesting.

18:39 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

I think a lot of I I found I mean I've been, I think we've been doing at the same time and I've actually never done minis. You know, I'm a family photographer, a newborn photographer as well, so it's like but I've never done them and I never. The reason being is I talk way too much on my shoot, but I also have a different way, and so I always get people asking me about minis and and. But I think it's they're not full of every photographer and I do think that you don't have to do them. In the fall, people will buy Full packages because they're only buying them once a year and so, in order, you know, my clients will do it for wall art, but they'll also do it for the holiday card and so. But you have to.

19:23

That's a very proud of me for doing that, like being standing up and actually saying you know I can't do it again. So I Realized and this is sort of another, you know, sort of barrier or boundary that you can actually create is I was always saying I'm gonna do week. You know, yes, yes to the weekends when I first started, yes, and then I realized that I wasn't spending time with my family. So I actually Stopped doing the weekends and, yes, I had trained quite a few people to do Weekends, but I was shocked how easy it was for them to switch to a Wednesday night golden hour session, because they're like, actually the weekends are really busy and I know my husband doesn't want to miss all these football games, and so I think it was Really really a good thing to do. You know, just telling your clients.

20:15 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

I did the same thing. I've talked about this before, if the folks listening probably know this. But Audrey and I used to talk about this all the time. But I made a decision A couple of summers ago because I had a couple of really bad experiences and I made a decision to just Say like if we're gonna do outdoor photos, we're doing it within two, 90 minutes of sunset, two hours we can maybe do that. I would prefer to do it on a weekday. You know, if you're absolutely unable to do that, we can look at the calendar and it's just people are like, okay, I actually put it, so I had made it sort of very I really didn't want to do it.

20:47 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

So I was like it's a difference price, so it was 200 extra on the weekend. So I just didn't do a discount. I just sort of said weekend, weekday yes. I had a couple of people ask and I said that is the only time I get to spend with my family. Yeah, I do that for the holidays as well.

21:06 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

Like I'm adding a fee. I work during the week.

21:08 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

So so do I. So you know like I, so like that's not an excuse, but I think a lot of people, if you sort of firm with your boundaries, it can really help. But I know we were wanting to. We were going to talk a little bit about abundance mindset and one of the things I've noticed in and with photographers that would actually, in my mind, would actually really help. A photographer is thinking of you can go oh, my market is saturated. Oh, everyone's charging $150 for a mini. I can't charge more than that. I would one disagree with it to. There is a lot of photographers that aren't even on Google, that don't even rank. They don't even need to anymore because they've gotten their repeat clients, so they're also not on Facebook groups. So one of the things is really to sort of open up where you're looking. But also, for example, if you're a family photographer, you don't need 3,000 families a year, you need 100 max, right, a figure of charging for price, maybe you know.

22:18

So one interesting thing is I had actually gone through a phase of really you know, we're not all perfectly mindset at some point. I think our area had gotten a few, you know, newer photographers that were undercharging and I'd lost a couple of clients who quite rightly so these photographers are great and so it's not as if I didn't, you know. So I sort of was like, oh, I'm sorry for myself. But then I looked around and I said you know what? How many schools are in just my local area? There were four elementary schools and how many kids are in those schools, right? So looking at that, I was like, okay, well, that's about 3,000 families and that's just the elementary schools. Oh, and that's just this town. So let me look around at all these different places and like the towns next to me and I was like, okay, if I can just get 1% of that, I'll be okay, you know.

23:14

And then just opening your mindset to like seeing people around, seeing families, seeing kids all around you, even if you're in a small town, if you're in a small town, there is a likelihood that within 45 minutes or an hour of your area there is another big town or there are a few other towns. You don't have to have being in a metropolitan area to actually make money, and so likely, you know, I just think really framing it of like there are a lot of people and there is a photographer for everyone. There's not ever gonna be an oversupply of photographers. There's not gonna be people. I can never find a photographer right. It's not as if people are like you know, now you can't find a new driver right, but you can't find a photographer. So that just what that means is people are willing to pay and they're always gonna be.

24:07

Demand for photography is you just have to find your clients right and find your ideal client. They can be working for me. It's working busy moms that want you, know they trust me, they know they'll come back each year and again. Your mindset is if you're a family photographer, even newborn photographer, you don't have to continuously do the marketing. They will come back year after year after year. The first few years you have to build up your client base. But I lose a client you know. Some weird ones, like you know, can get divorced, and so then it's kind of awkward when they don't really want the family pictures anymore. But some still come back to me or they move away and that's pretty much it.

24:51 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

Well, it's super huge to reframe things. There is enough pie for everybody. There's more than enough for everybody, so that abundance mindset is huge Cause. Yes, there's a ton of photographers, but there is one of you and I used to use this example of like Oprah's stage or any big stage, but at the time I've seen, like 10 years ago, oprah was the first thing that popped into my head when I first started using this example. But if tomorrow morning, you were given a spot on her stage for 10 minutes in front of however many bajillion people, that is where you could share how awesome your photography is and you could give people a place to sign up to your email list, which, if you don't have that in place, that's gonna be a big problem when you get on this stage.

25:34

But and you know, let's say, 10,000 people sign up to your list because there's a couple bajillion watching. What are you gonna do with all those people Like why is your focus when you get on Instagram like, oh, my numbers are so low? Instead, I strongly recommend being grateful for that one or two or three people that like your photo right. Like, really nurture those people, because those people will not only keep coming back, but those people will refer you to their friends and so on and so on. You don't need a lot of people in this industry to do well, and so focus on the quality, not the quantity, and that will. I mean, I think that just I see it in my coaching. It just like you see, the like, the shoulders drop, and just the like, oh like I only need to find 100 people to really like my stuff really, you know, and that just feels good. It's like you could do this. You can do this.

26:33 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

Yeah, and I think sort of hit the nail in my head in terms of how we're sort of fighting. You know, when you and I started, we didn't have to fight with my Instagram likes and how am I gonna get clients, you know. So it is a lot harder to sort of break free of that mindset but also to sort of take a step back. I mean I was. I mean I was doing sort of old school marketing and I hate the term networking. So I do what I call. It is like making business friends. Yeah, that's more fun. Yeah, it's so much more fun.

27:07

Making business friends, making business friends, because I cannot, even if I have to go to a chamber meeting or anything. You just sort of I'm not an in-person person, I mean I am, I'm very outgoing, but just thinking I have to go network and my business is sort of really hard.

27:23 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

When it's on purpose, it's hard, it feels a little disingenuous. Yeah, yeah, for me too.

27:29 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

But I actually I also reframed it of going in there I'm gonna help somebody with their business and then I might get so much easier and so that. But that's a whole different topic, but yeah.

27:39 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

Yeah, but the reframing, all these reframes, reframing all of it like is huge.

27:45 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

We have to reframe things and one of the things is we have to stop thinking it's instant money, instant clients, instant. This. It's a business and business takes time. Rome wasn't built in a day. And so to make one post in a group and saying no one likes me, no one's buying my stuff, I suck. I mean I would drop my prices. It's not, it's a whole, it's a machine. Right, it's like it's a business.

28:13

So think of like Starbucks isn't gonna come and open up I mean more Starbucks could, but they've also built their brand over the years and I think sort of knowing sort of the marketing. It's like okay, I'm building my awareness, building my awareness. What can you do to build your awareness? And I would say outside of social media as well. But it's not that it's bad, but I love the fact that you sort of nurture those one person that likes it.

28:39

I found that if you're in the early, early stages, you just have to really figure out who is gonna be that advocate for you and you have no idea who it's gonna be. You don't, you have no idea. It'll probably be that I have one friend and again she's my friend now. I had done a shoot for her. She was a realtor, very quiet, and I would not have expected her to refer me so many places she lived on, you know, on Facebook groups. You've heard me like crazy and I just was like, oh my goodness, and then another one for me. I'm actually a twin, so I love photographic.

29:18

Oh wow, so I get, that's cool. I mean, I don't know any different but so. But it ended up being a weird thing that I sort of became known as a twin photographer or you know so, but I purposely did reach out to twins clubs. I really am a twin, I love photographing twins.

29:39

But one woman she runs a group called twin diversity she ended up becoming like the biggest advocate and refer and like, and I would say, her and I at first she was like, well, you're not a twin mom and and so why should I refer you, kind of thing. And I was like, well, because twin moms will want to know what it's like being a twin to help raise their twins. And she was Like to say, and so, anyway, but her and I am here very good friends of her now, and so it actually broadens your friendships of well, like, and I can support her, she can support me, vice versa. And same thing that goes with you know, my realtor friend, I love her, you know, recommended to anybody. But you just don't know where they're gonna come from unless you try. And it's likely not gonna be from an influencer, you know, a somewhat typical influencer, it's gonna be from you actually making a connection with people, and that's you don't. You know, you just have to try.

30:32

I tried way too many things that failed. I Payed too much money in print, I did all these frames for this sweet shop, but but you just got to try it first, you know.

30:44 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

You have to try and you have to just if people are looking for the how do I nurture that one person? You just have to build a human connection, do a good job and Then repeat, because that will stand out.

30:58 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

You know, yeah, and I think as a photographer, you know we can Easily provide. You know, I like to think of like, well, how am I gonna help that person first? Right, it's I got, if I'm gonna, eventually, you know I'm not gonna go into it thinking they're gonna be my advocate, right, but how can I help you? Like this woman that you know run the twins club she Called me she was like, oh, my goodness, I'm getting interviewed on CNBC tomorrow and I need a class, a photo of my classes. I'm teaching another. All right, I'll go ahead and I'll help you and I like dropped everything and went, photographed her and then got it to CBS the next day.

31:36

She appreciated that and so it's understanding that and likely they're gonna be small business owners, because it's also the ones that are in your target audience. It's not gonna be some you know person that doesn't is in Facebook groups or doesn't talk to a bunch of other Of your target audience. It's going to be someone that has a business, like a realtor that's in your area, or it's gonna be, you know, someone that has a music studio for kids. You know, like you have to sort of think of that being. We all have a limited time. So if you're going to think of, like, who's gonna be a good business friend? It's probably gonna be someone that has the same target audience as you.

32:18 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

32:56

I'm a year old account and it I don't care, like it doesn't, I don't need it has no reflection on, you know, hitting six figures. It does. There's no correlation there. So when you're thinking about, like, where you want to be with your business in terms of numbers and and making business friends or making connections, you know really that is that should be the last. The higher the number is not the equation that you're going for as a photographer.

33:23 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

Agreed, and I think, with what you said about you know the email list. You know it's sometimes it's actually going back to the not the boring parts, but like the rudimentary parts of like building an email list and so Thinking of you know and I will say certain markets and certain you know Newborn photography in Westchester, New York, where I'm from like I very rarely got clients from it and I spoke to many photographers who are getting clients. Wedding photographers are getting clients on Instagram. You know hair and makeup people are getting clients on Instagram. So you might be spending all this time and effort when no one's really gonna. It's just not in the market, right? People aren't going and do going on Instagram. Maybe they're gonna get it from Google, you know, instead, yeah, absolutely.

34:10 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

Well, I love. We probably should wrap this up a little bit, but I just want to kind of review some of these mindset things that we were talking about in the first being. If you're thinking about your prices and being scared to raise your prices, learn your numbers and Switch your mindset into these are the numbers that my business needs to charge in order to be profitable. I think that's one. The next one what did we talk about? Just quality over quantity when it comes to your, your people and your outreach and all of that kind of stuff, like that's a big one, there is enough pie for everybody. So just abundance. Not like, oh my god, there's so many photographers and I don't have any clients. Like, just keep going, you know, and there's enough for you too. Is there something I missed? Did we have another mindset flip in there somewhere in our conversation?

34:56 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

I think. I'm not sure if it's a mindset, but just understand. I think not understood. You said understanding your numbers, but knowing, like the time that it takes as well is part of the numbers as well. I'm just time is money.

35:09 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

Yeah, time is money. On that note, what do you think is something you'd like to leave folks with, like it could just be a quote that you love or something that really Resonates for you when you sit down to work.

35:23 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

Okay, so one of the things is there's always gonna be price haggles, that's actually.

35:28

You're always gonna be too expensive for somebody. It's a numbers game and actually some cultures, actually a train, taught to always ask radio. Don't take it personally. It's just how some people are raised and also it's. You just have to get focused on getting your inquiries up and so you're gonna be too expensive if you're five dollars for somebody. You're gonna be too expensive if you're seventy five hundred for a newborn shoe. But just know that you're not expensive enough for yourself to make money.

35:58 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

So yeah, no those numbers like what's your minimum sales average? What do you need to hit per client to really break even and be profitable, like if there's any question about that right now for you, this should be where you spend some more time, and I think that's great advice. Well, where can folks find you and all of these awesome pricing resources that you offer?

36:19 - Natalie Jennings (Host)

So in, and so I'm the founder of Pixello, which is all in one CRM Gallery and more for photographers that just want something simple to use and it's on their phone. We have a calculator in there. Yes, I would love for you to use the software, but you can also use it with the free trial, no credit card. Just go in there, run your numbers, and we do for our annual subscribers. We have a mastermind that we actually go through pricing and really help photographers Figure out pricing and mindset and all the fun stuff. But again, it's that's my number one Goal for people is to actually just run their numbers. So it's picked salocom, so PICSELLOcom. I just head to the calculator and figure out your numbers.

37:09

That's my goal.

37:10 - Jane Goodrich (Guest)

That's perfect. Run your numbers everyone. Yes, have a beautiful, beautiful day. Yes.