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Track 5: Sit back in your seats, get something to eat, watch this movie,

Track 5: don't want to see it, because, well, we'll let you hear the video. Thank you.

Track 2: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,

Track 2: back again with another film discussion from the left.

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Track 2: you can go to Patreon, forward slash Left of the Projector pod.

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Track 2: that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.

Track 2: This week on the show, we are delving back into another Kevin Smith film.

Track 2: This being the fifth film in the View Askewiverse.

Track 2: Askewniverse. That's a hard word to say.

Track 4: I always forget the N.

Track 2: Yeah, it really sneaks in there. Jay and Silent Bob strike back.

Track 2: The film centered around Jay and Silent Bob as they journey to Hollywood to

Track 2: stop a film about their likenesses from being made.

Track 2: Stars, of course, Jason Mewes and Kevin Smith.

Track 2: Who also directed it, along with Shannon Elizabeth, Ben Affleck,

Track 2: Matt Damon, and a whole litany of other cameo people throughout that show up

Track 2: from the various other Kevin Smith films.

Track 2: And today, joining us to discuss this film is Jade. Thank you very much for being here today.

Track 3: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk about this hyperfixation of mine.

Track 2: Now, as a Jerseyite, I am from New Jersey. Oh, hi. So I'm genetically predisposed

Track 2: and geographically predisposed to like Kevin Smith.

Track 2: It's actually in our blood. It's one of the things. You know,

Track 2: we know exits, pork roll, Taylor Ham, that argument, and then, of course, Kevin Smith.

Track 2: And as a comic book fan, Kevin Smith is kind of a thing.

Track 2: But tell us about your history with films and why you picked this movie.

Track 3: Yeah, totally. So very cool. you're genetically modified to be a fan.

Track 3: I was also born this way, but on the opposite coast, which is,

Track 3: I guess, pretty cool, pretty destiny.

Track 3: But I grew up with a VCR and two films.

Track 3: Clerks was on one of them and UHF was on the second one. Between those two films,

Track 3: because we were poor, we didn't have cable. I mean, who had cable when they were a kid?

Track 3: And so I would just watch those movies for years throughout my childhood.

Track 3: And then, you know, Clerks, then you see Dogma, then you see Jane Salabob,

Track 3: then you see the whole Askew universe.

Track 3: And Kevin Smith kind of helped raise me in a lot of ways.

Track 3: And Jane Salabob Strike Back in particular is one of those films that I think

Track 3: was one of the, apparently it was supposed to be the last film that Jane Salabob

Track 3: were to appear in at this point.

Track 3: And it's like, well, I'm so glad he decided against that. But it's one of the

Track 3: like out fourthly, I don't know if that's a word, but it's one of the blatantly

Track 3: sillier movies in the universe, I think,

Track 3: that like doesn't really try to be, not that his other films are trying to be

Track 3: something that they're not, but it was one of those ones that's really just,

Track 3: this is Jay and Silent Bob.

Track 3: You know but then of course uh it wasn't until

Track 3: kind of into adulthood and then actually bringing up

Track 3: this podcast that i was like wait you know what you know re-watching it and

Track 3: it's like there's a lot of like things they deal with in this movie that are

Track 3: very pertinent to today's times and i think kevin smith is a lot more um i think

Track 3: he's a lot more base than we give him credit for in a lot of ways yeah so without

Track 3: blabbering too much that's that's how i am here today.

Track 1: It's funny i hadn't i think well maybe we all were saying this beforehand i've

Track 1: seen so this is the third the third camera film i've done in this podcast i've

Track 1: done mall rats dogma and this one,

Track 1: and we're i would say i hadn't seen this one in a really long time and i'm wondering

Track 1: because you said kind of it has some of these you know things that relate to

Track 1: today i'm sure we'll get into many of those things as they kind of like go through

Track 1: the film but i'm wondering you know um sort of,

Track 1: how you sort of place this maybe like in, cause you said you also had clerks.

Track 1: You watched that one a lot. Like, do you have a favorite Kevin Smith movie?

Track 1: And is it, and is it this one or is it mall rats? Is it clerks?

Track 1: Do you have, I'm just naming movies here.

Track 3: For sure. No, I mean, I think clerks just sentimentally, but also I think like

Track 3: just objectively that movie is, it's such a masterpiece. And like the budget was like what?

Track 3: 27,000 or something like insanely small.

Track 3: And, uh, just the fact that, you know, oh, he shot it in black and white because

Track 3: he couldn't afford to shoot it in color.

Track 3: And all of these things that were kind of out of necessity turned it into this

Track 3: amazing film that's like 99% just straight dialogue, like Randall,

Track 3: one of the most like best written characters there ever was.

Track 3: So I think Clerks is like the best for me, my favorite.

Track 3: But then Dogma, I think probably had the biggest impact because I grew up Catholic

Track 3: and watching Dogma as a child and then continuing to watch it until I understood what was going on.

Track 3: I think really helped me awaken my inner atheist at a very young age and put words to a lot of things.

Track 3: My little baby brain was like conflicted about, you know, growing up in a church.

Track 3: So long-winded way to say Clerks is my favorite movie.

Track 1: Well, everyone can say there is for me, it's definitely dogma.

Track 1: Although I think I've seen, which I've seen probably the most amount of times.

Track 1: And I remember now, apparently like you can't get it on DVD because of the weird

Track 1: licensing. Like a lot of these actually have weird licensing because of Harvey

Track 1: Weinstein and Miramax and all of that.

Track 1: But Dogma always, for me, just had, it felt like the smartest film in all of

Track 1: his movies as far as just sort of really using religion and all these things.

Track 1: And so that was always my favorite. But

Track 1: I also probably watch Mallrats a lot, too. So, hard to say.

Track 4: I'm with Jade. It's between Clerks and Dogma for me. They're just both so iconic and so incredible.

Track 2: Mallrats is definitely a sentimental favorite. I actually love Jason Lee.

Track 2: I've always really enjoyed him as an actor and his characters.

Track 2: But Dogma, as a basically lifelong atheist and, more importantly,

Track 2: anti-theist, Dogma is kind of a big one for me.

Track 2: It always was. it made a big like impact um i grew up watching kevin smith movies

Track 2: i mean i guess not grew up since i was i'm a little older but you know it's.

Track 3: Like come.

Track 1: With your house if you live in new jersey it just like you did they.

Track 3: Like slip a.

Track 1: Vhs under your under your mat be like here's your copy of mall rats.

Track 2: Yeah it's issued at school yeah they give.

Track 3: It out to you.

Track 2: Um i believe it starts in in uh nowadays it starts in fifth grade they give it to your fifth grade.

Track 3: Okay younger and younger every year indoctrinating the

Track 3: damn youth yeah actually you might appreciate this anecdote

Track 3: so i grew up in buona park california and that's

Track 3: where they shot clerks too um which i don't know

Track 3: if you recall but clerks too it's like it's it takes place

Track 3: in this giant fast food place called movies movies yeah

Track 3: they they built that like two buildings over from

Track 3: where i lived so i like grew up going to junior high walking past it all the

Track 3: time that's incredible year and it was just such a marvelous amazing experience

Track 3: i i was always so i was like so curious why they chose bonaparte places but

Track 3: i guess it must be the weather or something i don't know but it was cool to

Track 3: grow up and see that it was huge in person.

Track 2: Nice subtle you really.

Track 3: Slipped out of my eye perfect well you're not gonna say it.

Track 1: One of the um the like for me

Track 1: when i when i have my memory of the movie and then i

Track 1: guess when i was re-watching it the thing that i like thought of or i

Track 1: don't know maybe this came across your mind jay when you were thinking about you

Track 1: know discussing this for the as a podcast you

Track 1: know about films from a left perspective is the the

Track 1: like the like the primary as bill mentioned like

Track 1: in the opening the primary motivation for jay

Track 1: and sila bob to go on this journey from new jersey

Track 1: to california is because they weren't paid

Track 1: by you know the studio for their likeness as

Track 1: chronic and blunt man which is based on you

Track 1: know it's it's weird it's like a comic book based on these guys and then they

Track 1: made a movie based on the comic book and they weren't ever paid for it and they're

Track 1: like motivation is to go because of this but then there's also like the subtext

Track 1: plot of them being mad that people

Track 1: are being mean to them on the internet which you know like welcome to,

Track 1: welcome to the 2000s that's just how it is but like what do you like make of

Track 1: that sort of plot like is it the I don't know

Track 1: that's that's awesome.

Track 3: Yeah no totally um i my favorite part of the whole movie is that and saying

Track 3: i think it's during the credits i think it's a credits cut scene where it shows

Track 3: them going to everyone's house yes people and just beating the shit i don't know it's so funny.

Track 3: It's so silly um yeah no i again i i started watching these movies when i was

Track 3: very young so So a lot of the themes obviously kind of just went over my head.

Track 3: But yeah, definitely like stealing their likenesses and then wanting to go and

Track 3: get some sort of like attribution or money for it. And then the big Hollywood

Track 3: studios being like, hey, fuck you.

Track 3: And I also think another part of the movie that was pretty interesting is the

Track 3: fact that, you know, he comes across this group of incredibly hot chicks who

Track 3: are going to like free a bunch of animals from a lab, which is a very noble cause.

Track 3: But it's like a front for stealing diamonds. him being like the patsy or them

Track 3: being the patsy and whatnot.

Track 3: And yeah, I think that especially, you know, pertinent to today with the,

Track 3: especially as like we have like AI and whatnot kind of coming in and just complete

Track 3: cancer on the creative world.

Track 3: It's fun to kind of imagine like what AJ and Silent Bob Strike Back would look

Track 3: like today, especially with like the dawn of AI and whatnot.

Track 3: I mean, back then it was like, you have moviepoopshoot.com and you can read

Track 3: reviews about the movie and they are going to steal your likeness and put it in a comic book film.

Track 3: Which I actually have the Jane Silent Bob comics behind me, you can't see them, but

Track 3: they're right there somewhere but um yeah not where i was going with that.

Track 1: No but it is like the ai thing too that was actually one

Track 1: of the things i put down was you know ip is now just being

Track 1: stolen like in a complete in mass by just you know

Track 1: chat gpt just sucking up every movie and

Track 1: book and all these things and now people are people

Track 1: have actually won lawsuits a bunch of authors won lawsuits for them using pirated

Track 1: books of their of their of their books in the algorithm them and i think they

Track 1: paid out something like 800 it was a huge settlement and i think it's gonna

Track 1: have more of those and it just kind of you know we don't have to go down the

Track 1: the ai rabbit hole that's like a yeah they're getting hit with another.

Track 4: One because of sora ai which i mean like even to sign even to like sign up for

Track 4: sora you got to scan your face into it and give sign away your likeness yeah sora then.

Track 2: Disney is, and then probably the only good thing that Taylor Swift will ever do in her life.

Track 2: She is, I know, one of the people involved in various litigation against AI because of her music.

Track 2: And I use the term music very loosely in that case.

Track 3: I'm glad I'm in a safe space. I never liked.

Track 1: Yes, this is a.

Track 3: M'lady Swift. But what I think is so fascinating about this like dawn of AI,

Track 3: how quickly it's evolved and how much all of these like AI companies are,

Track 3: it's just this giant bubble that's going to probably pop pretty soon.

Track 3: But it's like basically, though, because now you're not just messing with like

Track 3: the everyday working class person, like you're messing with like the giants,

Track 3: you know, the ones that you're like the too big to fail companies and multinational

Track 3: corporations that you're not supposed to mess with. And our government will

Track 3: make sure you don't mess with them.

Track 3: And so it's an interesting conflict, like, for instance, like with Disney,

Track 3: it's like, okay, so you have like, Sora, obviously, it's, you know,

Track 3: it's a little AI vacuum sucked up some Disney IP, I'm sure.

Track 3: And it's creating these little dumb AI videos. And so it's like,

Track 3: you have this giant company versus this other new giant company.

Track 3: Same thing with like the music and like Taylor Swift. And I have a good buddy

Track 3: in a band called Dayseeker, actually.

Track 3: And they are not in a lawsuit or anything.

Track 3: But they recently had an AI band come out and just rip everything,

Track 3: like their sound, their chord progressions, like, and they even cite Dayseeker

Track 3: in their like little bio.

Track 3: And apparently that's like happening a lot across genres.

Track 3: And so it's going to be interesting to see what like these legacy like giants,

Track 3: like these behemoths, and then you have like the Sam Altman's and the, you know, giant.

Track 3: So I'm, I let them eat each other, you know, we'll see.

Track 3: I just hope that like we come out, like the working class comes out as like

Track 3: somehow unscathed, although that historically doesn't typically happen,

Track 3: but it's gonna be fun to watch them duke it out, I guess.

Track 2: A new Luddite revolution is what we need. A new Luddite movement for the working class.

Track 4: Butlerian Jihad?

Track 2: Butlerian Jihad, that's right. I am constantly preaching for Butlerian Jihad,

Track 2: and I'm a proud Luddite in the real sense of the word, because I know who the

Track 2: Luddites actually were.

Track 3: That's what I'm talking about.

Track 1: Yeah, not just people like, you don't like computers, is the kind of like you

Track 1: come across oftentimes.

Track 3: I don't like numbers. Fuck counting. I'm just kidding.

Track 1: Well, you're talking about the big guys, but then when you go back to this film,

Track 1: it's literally just two guys from New Jersey that are taking on a studio.

Track 1: And essentially, there's no real recourse. You're a friend's band.

Track 1: There's no real recourse that they have. And in this movie, they're just getting,

Track 1: you know, I think at the, you know, at the spoiler, at the end,

Track 1: they sort of get some unnamed settlement of what they're going to get,

Track 1: which is probably way less than they deserve.

Track 3: Of where but yeah actually a fun anecdote so um carrie fisher makes a cameo

Track 3: in that movie she's the nun that picks oh and so wait isn't george carlin he's

Track 3: george carlin and also mark hamill,

Track 3: dude so i was at a q a with kevin smith like,

Track 3: 10 years ago by now but um i got

Track 3: to ask him a question i'm like can you just let me know like tell me what

Track 3: was it like to have carrie fisher on set and he actually gave

Track 3: this really cool story about like the first

Track 3: couple days that they were all on set like uh

Track 3: jason muse as you can imagine is like very vulgar very

Track 3: jay and like just saying like pussy shit you know whatever and um carrie uh

Track 3: actually had to like set him aside and gave him kind of like a stern talking

Track 3: to and kevin Smith describes like looking back and seeing like this look on

Track 3: Jay's face, like he's being yelled at by his mother right now.

Track 3: And apparently after that, he was actually very well behaved and very polite

Track 3: and well mannered. And I love that story.

Track 3: The idea of Carrie Fisher telling Jay, you know, stop with the pussy fart jokes.

Track 2: That seems to be a recurring theme in Jason Mewes' life.

Track 2: Kevin Smith's wife also kicked him out of, wouldn't allow him in their house

Track 2: for an extended a period of time until he cleaned up more.

Track 2: Kevin Smith's wife, who also makes an appearance in the film.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: Plus their child, I believe, is the baby Kevin Smith at the beginning,

Track 1: I think is Kevin Smith's Oh.

Track 2: Really? I did not realize that.

Track 1: Harley Quinn Smith. That's his Kevin Smith's daughter.

Track 4: Yeah, she's in the reboot.

Track 1: Yeah yeah yeah and the funny thing i

Track 1: also saw about the mark hamill and carrie fisher for one it was the first time

Track 1: they were in a movie together since star wars but it also apparently they didn't

Track 1: know they were in the movie together until after they like wrapped shooting

Track 1: i guess because they weren't on they weren't in the same scenes together so

Track 1: i think that's anything with carrie fisher like that would be i've been you know r.i.p.

Track 3: Carrie i know yeah weren't they like i might be completely hallucinating this

Track 3: but was there not like a little bit of a beef going on some interpersonal conflict

Track 3: going on between mark hamill and carrie fisher for a little bit probably i.

Track 1: Would have met i mean not familiar yeah i would say i'm not aware of.

Track 2: Their uh their interpersonal relationships mark.

Track 3: Hamill is.

Track 2: An insufferable shit lib though so you know.

Track 3: I imagine he starts beef for people yeah i feel like so many of our like childhood

Track 3: movie heroes are like you know they're shit libs unfortunately i mean once in

Track 3: a while you'll have a gem but like it's kind of just expected.

Track 1: Well, for me, as a kid, George, not as a little kid, but as a teenager,

Track 1: George Carlin was always one of my, he's my favorite comedian ever.

Track 1: I've met him, saw him perform, and him in this movie, and then also in Dogma,

Track 1: and then outside of this, the Bill and Ted's movies.

Track 1: I always just love seeing George Carlin in a movie.

Track 1: In this one, it's a very bizarre scene. And, you know, I, Bill,

Track 1: were you telling me the story right before this? Wait, which one of you were

Track 1: telling me the story about him?

Track 4: Oh, I was telling you. Yeah, I saw, I saw an interview with Kevin Smith and

Track 4: they're asking him what it was like with working with George Carlin on this movie.

Track 4: And like George Carlin was like asking him, he was like, so like my character,

Track 4: like, does he actually like believe in the book of the road?

Track 4: Or is he just like fucking with these guys?

Track 4: And Kevin Smith was like, I don't know, man, you put more thought into this script than I ever did.

Track 4: Like let's just go with he believes in it he's like okay that's what i thought

Track 4: that's what i'm going to work with he's like you know you could just like phone

Track 4: this in right george and george carlin was like you don't know shit about acting.

Track 3: George carlin would.

Track 1: Never phone it in ever no.

Track 3: Never too small in dogma he is.

Track 1: So believable like he is he sells it.

Track 3: So he's so.

Track 2: Perfect in dogma.

Track 3: Is such an incredible piece what's really sad so uh

Track 3: kevin smith did a q a last year uh down

Track 3: the street and uh it was for dogma because they're like

Track 3: re-releasing it and whatnot and he was talking about

Track 3: um george carlin and how when they were filming dogma apparently his wife had

Track 3: just passed away and um i think it was his wife and and kevin called him like

Track 3: hey you do not need to do this anymore we totally understand and he's like no

Track 3: no i'll be there i'll be there and the only concession he asked for is that

Track 3: he could still wear his wedding ring.

Track 3: Yeah, and he says that he was obviously incredible and amazing, and it was just,

Track 3: it was very soon after that as well like after um i'm pretty sure it was his no.

Track 1: It wasn't yeah it was his wife yeah i heard i think i heard that story i didn't

Track 1: know that it was um that i knew that was because of his wife i didn't realize

Track 1: it was like she had just passed away shows you what a good guy george carlin was.

Track 3: Yeah i've got a buddy christ up there too.

Track 1: So like the the one thing about this

Track 1: movie too that i that's was interesting

Track 1: re-watching it was especially compared to

Track 1: his other movies this felt like especially since the

Track 1: the interview you were talking about ward where he's just sort of like he didn't take

Track 1: he wasn't like putting wasn't a serious script for

Track 1: him it seemed like there's so much i guess the nice way of putting is like retreading

Track 1: of jokes and characters i think i think i counted like nine different characters

Track 1: from the previous films like playing themselves from those movies you know like

Track 1: the the like the ben aflac's character and, you know,

Track 1: everyone is in it and it's I don't want to call it like a remake.

Track 1: I don't know what the word that I'm thinking of but it just felt like,

Track 1: Yeah, yeah, right. I guess it's his, it's his thing.

Track 2: It's a tribute.

Track 4: It's the Avengers movie.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: Oh, you know, I got to get them all in.

Track 2: It's, it's a tribute to his own work in a lot of ways.

Track 2: I mean, to be honest, I do not like this movie and I never really did.

Track 2: Um, and like, I'm very, like, I'm really curious.

Track 2: Like, I want to hear more about like what, like the kinds of like ideas that

Track 2: you had about how like it, um, relates to things.

Track 2: Especially now beyond like even like you know the ip you know intellectual property

Track 2: and all that um because to me like one of the big things that jumps out is just

Track 2: how it's very vulgar and and there's a lot of like homophobia which.

Track 3: Just rubs.

Track 2: Me really wrong.

Track 3: A product of its

Track 3: time very much so yeah no for

Track 3: sure and um yeah that that's another thing

Track 3: too as i watch those earlier movies like nowadays

Track 3: you can't help but like cringe a little bit but

Track 3: it's like knowing kevin smith and and like the people

Track 3: who worked on those films it's like you know they're not like they they don't

Track 3: have they probably don't have a bigoted bone in their body yeah it's very curious

Track 3: to like yeah and it just goes to kind of show you

Track 3: how much like the permission structure back then was like

Track 3: it's okay to like use gay as a insult or you know the f word is like a pejorative

Track 3: or something like that and um that i think a lot of especially if you grew up

Track 3: with like that genre of like film and entertainment like if you grew up watching

Track 3: jackass or like viva la bam or cky like there was a ton of problematic shit

Track 3: happening you know uh cky i'm.

Track 2: Not familiar with that.

Track 3: Cky was like jackass but gnarlier and well cky is also a band which is an amazing

Track 3: band but um it was it was like bam margera i think originally in it and his

Track 3: brother and his friends they grew up with and it was kind of just like a a,

Track 3: thing that they filmed where they just went and like fucked around and like

Track 3: had dumb little skits and there's like some kind of hard to track down the like

Track 3: original like these and tapes and whatnot these days but it was kind of like

Track 3: the prototype for jackass if I wasn't mistaken.

Track 2: I'm showing my age that I don't have I have no idea what this is.

Track 3: Oh yeah no worries I mean god it was like early to mid 90s I want to say that

Track 3: it was it was like at its peak yeah.

Track 4: I grew up on a lot of jackass.

Track 3: And eventually.

Track 4: Like some Viva La Bam I was like, okay, this ain't bad. It's not jackass.

Track 3: It's definitely different. Yeah, no. And then just in terms of like the James

Track 3: Alabao strike back, kind of like relating back to more leftist themes.

Track 3: Again, it's like Kevin Smith himself is not this obviously like radical,

Track 3: like super political person. But I think that he's very intentional with like,

Track 3: The themes he chooses to integrate in his movies, and I think nowadays he's

Track 3: a little bit more, especially with his daughter being a little bit older,

Track 3: and she's clearly a little bit, I think, more politically savvy.

Track 3: I think he's less afraid to be more like apparent with his political opinions these days.

Track 3: But even back then, like when doing those movies, I feel like every time I had

Track 3: seen like a behind the scenes interview with him or something,

Track 3: it's like it's this movie that on the outside, it's like super vulgar.

Track 3: And there are like pretty crazy like things that go on, obviously.

Track 3: But there's also like and I know it's so cliche to make a movie criticizing

Track 3: movies, like a movie criticizing Hollywood.

Track 3: But just the way he kind of did that with Jay and Salabob Strike Back again,

Track 3: like the whole trek, like the hero's journey to the frickin Hollywood studios.

Track 3: And then like that one scene where Jay and Salabob, they like run into the movie

Track 3: set and he's like, Hollywood's so fake and things like that. Yeah, I don't know.

Track 2: That did get a genuine that did get a genuine life out of me i thought.

Track 1: I really liked that part the roadrunner when they run into the the yes the flat side yeah i.

Track 4: Really had one in jay going what the fuck is the internet yeah he's so he sells that so fucking well.

Track 3: That's like you just say every day and forget where it came from he's.

Track 2: A fascinating individual.

Track 1: I could honestly believe that he didn't know what the internet was when they

Track 1: made this movie like Like I somehow in my brain, I have this belief that maybe

Track 1: he just didn't know what the internet was, you know, I mean.

Track 4: Or like maybe there's no way in real life though.

Track 1: Maybe he, you know, I don't know. Maybe, maybe I'm, maybe I'm,

Track 1: uh, being, I don't mean that like in a mean way.

Track 1: Like I can almost see him to not kind of understanding at this time in like the two thousands.

Track 1: I mean, the internet had been around, but that was sort of.

Track 1: When it was starting to get, you know, there was more high speed internet available

Track 1: going into the 2000s and, you know, you could go to the library and check out things.

Track 1: Oh, I know what I was going to say, though, about the like the jokes about the

Track 1: studio. They're constantly making fun of Miramax.

Track 1: And it's almost kind of amazing to me that they were able to get it made by

Track 1: Miramax and Dimension Films, despite the skewering of their own network.

Track 1: And like the the one of the jokes to me that's like the funniest thing is the is the fake re uh,

Track 1: sequel for goodwill hunting um open hunting open season and the director is

Track 1: just there like counting a stack of money and like that feels very real in the

Track 1: sense like that's really what the studios kind of now are like where they're

Track 1: just yeah make a sequel to avengers

Track 1: whatever and i'm just gonna you know just live in the sequel world.

Track 4: Yeah no i mean they're making the whatever the doom fucking Avengers movie right

Track 4: now. And it's like, yeah, whatever.

Track 4: Yeah. Doomsday that shit. Yeah. And I've seen like so many posts where it's like, oh yeah.

Track 4: And now they finally secured a writer and it's like, uh, haven't y'all been

Track 4: shooting for like six months?

Track 4: I've been actively filming for six months. You now just got a writer.

Track 4: And then it's like coming out. It's like, yeah, no one on the set,

Track 4: like no one in the cast actually knows who the fuck they're working with.

Track 4: Because every single person is doing

Track 4: like green screens with green people separately. It's such a fuck show.

Track 3: So that's what this is what upsets me nowadays. And it's like it goes along

Track 3: with the whole like in shitification everywhere you look, you know,

Track 3: every marks line, everyone predicted it.

Track 3: And now we're it's happening, but it's happening to our beloved IPs.

Track 3: And if you were to tell me like, because I also grew up heavily like into comic

Track 3: books as a collector and like went to conventions all the time.

Track 3: And if you were to tell me like 15 years ago that some of my most niche favorite

Track 3: comic books were going to get adapted into live action films, I would be so stoked.

Track 3: I'd be like, hell yeah. Like I would love to see Marvel zombies turned into a movie.

Track 3: I would love to see like, didn't they turn Red Sun, Superman Red Sun into?

Track 1: They did.

Track 2: It was an animated movie.

Track 4: Yeah, they did an animated movie for that.

Track 3: And, like, I haven't seen that. I'm sure it's great. But they did Killing Joke, too. Anyways.

Track 2: Yep.

Track 3: But now it's, like, the fact that – and I think there's always going to be a

Track 3: struggle between, like, the OG comic book fans versus, like,

Track 3: just your casual moviegoer versus, like, the movie studios and,

Track 3: like, the watering down –,

Track 3: stories the the de-radicalizing of certain characters

Track 3: that were a lot gnarlier in the comic books or stood for something

Track 3: a lot more than just like you know being a front for the

Track 3: military industrial complex and things like that but it's like

Track 3: it's so cynical nowadays it's it's i mean i

Track 3: guess you can argue that it kind of always has been but i feel

Track 3: like when the first like avengers movie came out in

Track 3: the first iron man it was still exciting like

Track 3: it still felt like they were staying true somewhat

Track 3: you know i think they probably already knew it was going to be like these

Track 3: huge multi-million dollar blockbusters and whatnot but it's like

Track 3: it's kind of like what's happening to the the star wars universe

Track 3: where it's like they just keep creating not even

Track 3: new shows but like or i guess it's a little different because

Track 3: that that's like some extended universe stuff happening but

Track 3: and it's getting to the point where it's like comic book

Track 3: movies they're so formulaic and they're so like i

Track 3: don't know and i think that's probably part of me just getting older and being

Track 3: more jaded about like i forget what i was reading but it was a pretty cool in-depth

Track 3: article about how the original Marvel movies or like some of the first few they

Track 3: like worked with like the US Air Force or something or some wing the American

Track 3: military like kind of like what they did with Top Gun but that was very blatant,

Track 3: Yeah, just kind of like everything has some sort of like weird.

Track 2: Any movie, Ward has talked about this before, but any movie that prominently

Track 2: displays any kind of military hardware basically has to have DOD people on set.

Track 2: And they have to sign stuff.

Track 4: Yeah, if you're making a movie and you want like US military in your movie,

Track 4: like equipment and uniforms, there's two ways to do it.

Track 4: Either buy all that shit yourself which is super expensive or

Track 4: you make an easy deal with the dod or now

Track 4: department department of war yeah and they'll provide

Track 4: all the jeeps and humvees and

Track 4: tanks and guns and uniforms and they'll

Track 4: even teach your actors like proper military techniques so

Track 4: that it's more accurate sorry there's a coyote um

Track 4: yeah they'll provide all of that stuff as long as they like also get to take

Track 4: a peek at your script and get like privileges to rewrite it so like iron man

Track 4: for example was originally scripted as an anti-war film and then you watch it

Track 4: now and none of those themes are present and.

Track 3: I yeah that's and and that's

Track 3: so i feel like i know this is veering way off topic from what we were like originally

Track 3: talking about but like it's just so antithetical to like what kind of the the

Track 3: history and and the the origins of comic books or at least like some very prominent

Track 3: comic book stories as like a way to be like a commentary of counterculture, you know?

Track 3: And it sucks that just like everything else that, you know, you could possibly

Track 3: be a fan of, it gets utilized and twisted into some weird like,

Track 3: oh, you thought this was anti-war?

Track 3: Well, guess what? It's so pro-war that you watch this, you're going to go to

Track 3: Iraq yourself and fucking blow up teenagers.

Track 3: And I hate that because, I mean, even with like Black Panther,

Track 3: like those like the yeah like the first I can't remember what I want to talk about Black Panther 2,

Track 3: yeah like yeah and again it's it's one of those things it's like as a comic

Track 3: book just had so many cool themes and so many like but again you know leave

Track 3: it to disney marvel to soften things.

Track 2: I think these are all i think these are all really good especially because

Track 2: how deeply kevin smith is tied to comics and comic culture yeah i mean he has

Track 2: i mean he breathed new life into daredevil as a hero as a character you know

Track 2: daredevil as a character was dead until kevin Smith wrote one of the best storylines

Track 2: for the character in contemporary, you know, comics.

Track 2: And it is really true that, you

Track 2: know, like historically comics are deeply anti-fascist in a lot of ways.

Track 2: And the movie industry has turned them into tools of fascism and tools of the state department.

Track 2: And also tied with it, the, as you, you said, like the nostalgia aspect of it,

Track 2: which I really, you know, like thinking about it and you, you know,

Track 2: I did not really like think about this until you like you really mentioned but

Track 2: i mean like this this movie really does,

Track 2: hammer home the idea that the like

Track 2: of weaponizing of nostalgia and the

Track 2: like just the consumption of things

Track 2: that people like and then shitting it back out

Track 2: at them and like even to the point where like kevin smith is himself doing that

Track 2: and i don't think he is unaware that that's what he's doing you know when in

Track 2: the first like fucking like 10 minutes of the movie when jason lee looks at

Track 2: the camera and goes do you want a chocolate pretzel like i don't you know like they.

Track 1: Break the fourth wall at least three or four times in the film like,

Track 1: Ben Affleck and Matt Damon do it when they're making the movie.

Track 1: They look at the camera and say, oh, this is a favor to a producer.

Track 1: I actually learned this today is that apparently, Good Will Hunting's script

Track 1: was presented to Harvey Weinstein by Kevin Smith on behalf of Ben Affleck and

Track 1: Matt Damon, and that's what got the film to be made.

Track 1: So if it weren't for Kevin Smith, they might not have ever made Good Will Hunting,

Track 1: which probably would mean they never would have been...

Track 1: I think he only knew them because of...

Track 1: I guess they knew him through mall rats because he was in ben uh no we know

Track 1: ben affleck was in the fat infashionably the the guy from fashionably male or

Track 1: whatever the story's called anyway.

Track 3: Crazy i didn't know that.

Track 1: That's just a side story yeah yeah.

Track 2: He um he wants to have sex with her in a very uncomfortable place the back of the volkswagen.

Track 1: Kevin smith definitely like when we talked about this when we did dogma and

Track 1: the in the clerks episode like how much of the politic of some of those films

Track 1: was intentional by Kevin Smith,

Track 1: how much of it was sort of just what he knew being like he was not a wealthy guy.

Track 1: He was a working class guy just trying to like make this movie.

Track 1: He dropped out of film school and all this. And so I think he intentionally

Track 1: in this movie, as we're talking about it, really was trying to sort of make fun of.

Track 1: The studio while.

Track 3: Working with the studio.

Track 1: And just showing really like how shitty all of the recycled content is you know

Track 1: going back again to the ai thing like i think he was doing something and then

Track 1: the humor that comes out is just sort of like the goofy sort of.

Track 3: Product of your time humor.

Track 1: That is just kind of like dog blind clerks like to the extreme you know like.

Track 3: Yeah and there was always something about jay

Track 3: it's like he's known as the idiot

Track 3: kind of like it's no secret that he's like

Track 3: the dumbass of every movie and he's like

Track 3: kind of lovable because you could tell he's got a tender heart like

Track 3: in there somewhere but he also is like really fucking dumb

Track 3: and i think that him it kind of goes hand in hand with like he's the first one

Track 3: to say like oh that's gay or like to say something very like homophobic but

Track 3: at the same time is also like doesn't have a problem saying that Kevin Smith

Track 3: is his hetero life mate and is like very affectionate and like platonically

Track 3: intimate, if you could say that.

Track 3: And so it's kind of like, you know he's an idiot and it's like when he does

Track 3: say those horrible things, it's like, oh, it's because he's an idiot.

Track 3: And also like it, again, unfortunately was acceptable back then to say those things.

Track 3: But it's like a weird, I think you...

Track 3: Kevin Smith also, again, being a little, I think, more socially aware than the average director.

Track 3: I think he kind of knew what he was doing in terms of putting those things kind

Track 3: of right next to each other.

Track 3: And the film, again, I think it was just also so ahead of its time with going

Track 3: back to the whole internet thing.

Track 3: The early days of internet trolling and mobs and just having all of this internet

Track 3: critique kind of leveled at you and how it affected them so personally.

Track 3: They went and like knocked on every single door and kicked all their asses.

Track 3: But I mean, again, like you said, back then the internet was not that as pervasive as it is today.

Track 3: It was, it was pretty big because like, God, what, what year did that movie come out?

Track 1: 2001.

Track 3: Oh, wow. Yeah. So that was like early days of like Facebook and stuff.

Track 3: That's like AOL chat rooms, right? I think.

Track 1: Yeah, I guess so.

Track 2: Yeah. Oh, totally.

Track 3: Yeah. Like before Reddit, I think maybe if there was a time before Reddit.

Track 2: It was before the internet was owned by four companies,

Track 2: which is like the fact that, you know, like it's just nowadays,

Track 2: if you saw that, you would assume it was a bot farm run by something,

Track 2: you know, like we are deep into dead internet.

Track 2: Like we're deep into dead internet theory at this point.

Track 2: Back then the internet, you, you still don't.

Track 1: Still existed well two

Track 1: things number one like i always often talk about films sort of

Track 1: in the like pre and post sort of 9

Track 1: 11 era i don't know that this necessarily sort of maybe it

Track 1: falls into that i think before before 9 11 like comedies sort of fell into sort

Track 1: of this kind of genre like the late 90s early 2000s but i was just thinking

Track 1: i was looking at the movies that came out in 2001 as far as the highest grossing

Track 1: and just thinking about the ideas of ip that they're kind of joking about.

Track 1: And I think, and looking at them, it looks like about half of them are based

Track 1: on either IP or our sequels.

Track 1: So you had Harry Potter, which was new. That was the number one.

Track 1: Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring.

Track 1: Not a, not a, I mean, it is an IP based on a book, obviously,

Track 1: but I don't know that it was new to really being like in the being new.

Track 1: Then there was Shrek, Monsters, Inc., Rush Hour 2.

Track 2: There will be no shit on them.

Track 1: The Mummy Returns, Pearl Harbor, Oceans 11, which is a remake,

Track 1: Jurassic Park 3, and Planet of the Apes remake.

Track 1: So I think four or five of those are remake slash, you know, IP in there.

Track 1: I mean, probably if you look at it now, it's probably 10 out of 10 top grossing

Track 1: ones or IP, you know, everything. But yeah.

Track 3: And James and LaBob Strike Back literally came out just a few weeks before 9-11.

Track 1: Yeah, you're right.

Track 3: Yeah, it was 24th. I bet he was I'm sure there was probably like a page full

Track 3: of jokes that could have made it to the movie that would have been very unfortunate

Track 3: timing by some stroke of destiny were cut last minute.

Track 2: Pearl Harbor is IP on American propaganda and lies. That's what that is.

Track 2: Still an IP.

Track 1: Yeah, I guess you could argue that. But yeah, you're right. It came out August 24th.

Track 1: So just, yeah, two and a half weeks before 9-11 and

Track 1: it it did it did like i think it was his most successful i

Track 1: think mall rat i mean i think clerks made more money based on

Track 1: how much it cost but this movie made 33 million dollars

Track 1: on a 22 million dollar budget and it's also crazy to

Track 1: me that the studio gave him 22 million dollars

Track 1: which like thinking of like his previous movies being pretty

Track 1: low budget i mean probably half of that went to all the actors

Track 1: they had to pay to be in this movie you know george carlin

Track 1: chris rock will farrell you mentioned like it's just

Track 1: a blockbuster list of people it is just you know um john stewart plays you know

Track 1: i don't think he plays himself he plays john stewart yeah tracy morgan is the

Track 1: guy he's talking to about like the union the drug the drug dealer union is also

Track 1: a pretty funny joke as far as so funny.

Track 2: That's a good one that is a good.

Track 1: I like that joke he's like oh you guys got health care out there yeah he's like nah,

Track 1: Which is like, it's, that's a funny thing. And like, yeah, you know,

Track 1: that's, um, I don't know how, you know, thinking of that joke,

Track 1: but just like the idea of talking about unions in 2001 is kind of.

Track 3: What? I mean, I'm always curious because I know nowadays, I think general union

Track 3: sentiment is starting to make a bit more of a comeback in the average American

Track 3: psyche, I think. Like, what?

Track 3: Because I know we had the union, the OG Blair Mountain coal miner unions died

Track 3: for our five-day week and for workers' rights and stuff.

Track 3: And then you had a bunch of red scare and then unions are going to take money

Track 3: out of your paycheck and not do anything with it.

Track 3: Blah blah and then unions are the devil and then what was so what was like the

Track 3: general union sentiment like in that in those days in like the in late 90s early

Track 3: 2000s because i was a kid i.

Track 2: Not good really i mean this is like this is a big.

Track 1: One like right this is like the right to work stuff started coming up or i don't

Track 1: know maybe it's like right around that time i think that was real.

Track 2: That was a major push around that time yeah i mean no unions you

Track 2: you know around that time i had

Track 2: a union job and it was unusual and

Track 2: like if you talk like people did not

Track 2: you so my father has worked for um car

Track 2: dealerships with my entire life and i

Track 2: grew up hearing you know from and i like worked

Track 2: there you know and like the one of the primary things

Track 2: was about how like basically the auto auto

Track 2: workers unions were actually the

Track 2: problem they're wanting things made things more expensive they're wanting things

Track 2: and their strikes caused problems like union sentiment at the time was very

Track 2: very bad you know especially this was,

Track 2: This was, you know, you, you were seeing, you know, like an uptick economically, a brief uptick.

Track 2: And it was like, you don't need unions. We're all doing great.

Track 3: But it was, yeah.

Track 2: Yeah. It was all, you know.

Track 1: Yeah, then Iraq War and the epic spending.

Track 1: And then just a few years later, our once-in-a-lifetime market crash.

Track 1: And then a few years later, our next once-in-a-lifetime market crash.

Track 2: This is Evan and I. This is our childhood.

Track 3: Yeah, no.

Track 2: We're like our formative years.

Track 3: I remember the – I think the 2008 was probably the one most impactful in my life.

Track 3: But i remember i mean i feel like we just kind of always struggled growing up

Track 3: but i i remember periods of time where it was like this bubble's popped this

Track 3: bubble's about to pop it's like fucking bubbles are you guys like blowing up in this.

Track 2: As an elder millennial i see a lot of bubbles.

Track 3: Yeah yeah i'm millennial as well i was born 92 i was just kind of like a bit

Track 3: of an airhead for like first 15 years of my life so you know i didn't have a whole lot going on.

Track 2: Yeah unions yeah union sentiment at this time was not.

Track 3: Not positive and you

Track 3: know it's so funny or i guess not funny but kind of funny if you're

Track 3: looking at it in a nihilistic way is like you can i do

Track 3: a lot of i've been doing a lot of research with boeing and like why boeing products

Track 3: are falling out of the sky and leaving astronauts fucking it's in shitification

Track 3: you know uh spoiler alert and it's you can like you said the whole right to

Track 3: work movement and the right to work laws uh that got passed in certain states.

Track 3: Boeing has facilities in some of those states and those facilities not unionized.

Track 3: Lo and behold, those facilities are full of under-experienced because underpaid workers.

Track 3: And those workers or the conditions of those factories are the direct result

Track 3: or directly result in things like the max crashes, directly result in the shoddy

Track 3: work that gets done that leads to, you know,

Track 3: pretty insane disaster so just kind of like in a roundabout way of like well

Track 3: you thought unions were lame and now fucking people are blowing up in the sky

Track 3: so what am i gonna you know you're gonna you're gonna do.

Track 1: Well that makes almost like him throwing in the

Track 1: sort of the union joke i mean it almost

Track 1: seems like it almost seems like sort of surprising that

Track 1: he would do that in a period when like the idea of i mean i'm sure that most

Track 1: people who watch this movie weren't like oh unions now they're cool if i do

Track 1: if i you know sell you know nickel bags next to the you know high school or

Track 1: whatever i get a get an union but it's uh it's just sort of like an interesting

Track 1: snapshot in time and i don't know.

Track 2: I mean hollywood has always been an outlier in that because hollywood has

Track 2: always been heavily unionized so like

Track 2: he is coming from he's coming at it from also his

Track 2: father was a postal worker so like you know

Track 2: like he's he grew up and you know like a

Track 2: with that and his father hated his job

Track 2: probably be you know because of the further degradation of

Track 2: the postal workers union but like you know in hollywood

Track 2: has a completely different kind of like and

Track 2: the media industry in general is heavily unionized

Track 2: especially stateside you know that's

Track 2: why to go back to the shitification why

Track 2: like we see so much more shit now because they

Track 2: keep farming it out marvel farms everything out to non-union workshops yeah

Track 2: overworks and you know where they overwork their people and they they don't

Track 2: get paid properly and they it just you know the difference between how things

Track 2: looked but again like iron man of like whatever they look really good.

Track 1: And now they look like shit the the.

Track 2: Effects like five years.

Track 1: Ago look horrible.

Track 2: Yeah so.

Track 3: Universal. And it's so pervasive. This is so random.

Track 3: But like you said, things are getting kind of like just outsourced.

Track 3: And it's like, there's a couple of reasons, obviously, you want to go either

Track 3: their profit maxing and going with like the cheapest vendors,

Track 3: but also like there there's like political moves to be made as well.

Track 3: Like if I could spread out jobs in as many states as possible,

Track 3: I can get more, like more stakeholders, you know, kind of who like me,

Track 3: I don't know the word for it.

Track 3: And this is kind of weirdly tangentially related. So we're going back to the moon, where NASA is.

Track 3: But first, we're going to be going around the moon. And we are going to be launching,

Track 3: not we, but the Royal We, we are going to be launching a spacecraft made by

Track 3: Boeing and Lockheed Martin, obviously.

Track 3: Around the moon as early as February next year.

Track 3: And everything about both the rocket and

Track 3: the capsule that the astronauts actually ride in is basically

Track 3: everything horrible with late stage capitalism and

Track 3: gentrification and corporate capture of a of

Track 3: an entire industry and I let's just say that like from everything I've heard

Track 3: and from friends I have who work there and work on these components like you

Track 3: said like they're built across 30 different states so really all Boeing does

Track 3: is take parts and put them together like Legos which when you're

Track 3: working on rockets it's kind of a dangerous sketchy thing

Track 3: to do same thing goes for the space castle and um

Track 3: i mean i'm not going to go too much into it but let's just

Track 3: say like there's obviously a lot of lobbying behind like

Track 3: with boeing and and other military industrial giants and so there's a spacecraft

Track 3: that we're launching that i'm very afraid of uh being a challenger part two

Track 3: or columbia part two um because conditions yeah and because of trump and the

Track 3: absolute decimation that NASA is experiencing right now,

Track 3: like everyone's too afraid to speak up. Like nobody.

Track 3: Because you're going to get laid off or you're going to get fired or God forbid

Track 3: you say something that slows down the process.

Track 3: Yeah, sorry. That was a bit of a rant. But let's just, yeah,

Track 3: it's crazy how that kind of just creeps its way into everything that,

Track 3: you know, we live and breathe these days.

Track 1: I mean, even though like movies and then farming out and doing everything cheaply

Track 1: is like a different, like the stakes are a lot different of making a movie and

Track 1: some special effects than like sending human beings to outer space.

Track 1: Obviously there's like a wide i don't want to like put them

Track 1: as like i'm going to compare them but you see the way

Track 1: that they're treating art in like movies are

Track 1: a form of art and they're treating them like they

Track 1: are business which i think kevin smith has a

Track 1: very keen understanding and and sees

Track 1: that that's the way like his dealings with harvey weinstein

Track 1: and like his problems with owning the rights to his movies

Track 1: and all these things is insane and just crazy that

Track 1: he can't like release them on dvd or like stream them or

Track 1: whatever it is but just the like the way that they

Track 1: treat art in the retreat all of these these

Track 1: uh systems is now just simply well again

Track 1: going back to the ai piece it's they don't care about

Track 1: the art the people at the that are making these heads of warner brothers and

Track 1: miramax or whatever they don't care about any of that they want to just make

Track 1: it for as cheaply as possible and if they can do that by using non-union workers

Track 1: or whatever they're just gonna do that and i think that kevin smith does a a

Track 1: an interesting job or a good job at kind of,

Track 1: making that maybe the subtext or maybe like as you as we watch it it's more

Track 1: obvious but i don't think the average person watches this really saw that at all or would see it.

Track 2: A lot of it you know i think that also is relevant to comics as well because

Track 2: that is especially if you you know the comics that he wrote were for the big

Track 2: two and that's and that ties back to this movie again that you know it's about

Track 2: comics and character and they're not characters that's the thing Like,

Track 2: Bluntman and Chronic in this movie are not characters.

Track 2: They are properties, which is exactly what Batman, Superman,

Track 2: Daredevil, all those characters, all the characters you see in Marvel,

Track 2: the MCU, and all those comics, they're not characters. They're properties.

Track 2: They are owned by a company. This is not, you know, Mike Mignola owns Hellboy. Hellboy is a character.

Track 2: Hellboy has an arc, and he will only ever be written by Mike Mignola or writers

Track 2: that Mike Mignola picks and says, you can work with my character.

Track 2: And when Mike Mignola's done working with Hellboy, Hellboy's gone.

Track 2: Batman will keep going and getting written by all kinds of people and then fit

Track 2: the need of the company, much like in the movie, Bluntman and Chronic,

Track 2: which is an absurd statement. Like Bluntman and Chronic.

Track 3: Cock knocker.

Track 2: Yeah, and Cockknocker. And the same thing, all that, like, just like Star Wars,

Track 2: they're not characters, they're properties.

Track 2: These are properties made, that have been harnessed by companies,

Track 2: and like Star Wars started with George Lucas.

Track 2: You know, George Lucas turned his characters into properties, you know.

Track 2: Before Disney ever got it, you know, I hate to break it to all the diehard Star

Track 2: Wars people out there, before Disney got a hold of it, Lucas was in shittifying his own shit, okay?

Track 2: Come at me um but that you know,

Track 2: It's a, like how I've been saying, you know, movies are art and so are comic books.

Track 2: And yet they've, they were, they've reduced them to properties and they've reduced

Track 2: them to just means of producing monetary profit. That's it.

Track 3: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think as, as it's not, I don't want to say cliche,

Track 3: but it's just such a tale as old as time, like commodification of something

Track 3: that started out very pure and like artistic and like expression.

Track 3: Expression and then it gets you know before you know it you're you're getting

Track 3: sold like vibrators in the shape of you know like obi-wan kenobi you know it's

Track 3: it's the long road connect those two points but it's you know not that you know.

Track 2: It's an interesting example but okay.

Track 3: I was trying to think of uh sorry because someone had this critique of a band

Track 3: called ghosts which started out very kind of smaller underground like more of

Track 3: a cult following and now they've like blown up um and i still love them but

Track 3: some of the old fans were like you know it feels like he's kind of,

Track 3: just uh watering down the original like what the original band stood for and

Track 3: the example they used was the fact that this band came out with their own branded

Track 3: vibrator and so i was just thinking like it's a funny way to measure like the

Track 3: objectification of something that started out is something very sacred to you, but now it's.

Track 1: This is the thought i had before that was like

Track 1: some of the studios make like their contract with

Track 1: owning some of those characters those those properties those products is if

Track 1: they don't make a movie about them a certain number of years they lose the rights

Track 1: to them so i can't remember which one in particular has this happened is it spider-man sony.

Track 2: It's sony and spider-man.

Track 1: And that's That's it, Sony and Spider-Man, yes.

Track 2: They don't make a movie every five years. That's why we have all the trash, Spider-Man.

Track 2: That's why we have Kraven the Hunter, Morbius, Madam Web.

Track 2: That's why those movies exist.

Track 3: Holy shit, I didn't know that.

Track 2: So they can retain the property.

Track 3: That makes so much sense. Holy fuck, that makes so much sense.

Track 3: Because this whole time, I'm just like, what do they do?

Track 3: They have to know these movies are losing money. People hate them. You're becoming a meme.

Track 2: You know like but they're not losing they're not losing money because they become

Track 2: tax write-offs that's the thing no shit corporations do not lose money they

Track 2: just claim it they do not lose money what's.

Track 1: Like when they made.

Track 2: The uh what was that the the warner brothers the the uh the roadrunner the roadrunner

Track 2: wiley kind of they sold that whole thing right but they originally they were

Track 2: willing to take a bath on it because they would just write it off as a profit loss.

Track 1: It was like $120 million profit loss. Like, yeah, whatever. It's just a rice-pidges claim.

Track 2: Yeah, just write it off. But yeah, that's why we have all those god-awful Spider-Man,

Track 2: tangential Spider-Man movies. That's why.

Track 2: Because they need to keep a hold of that property.

Track 3: And like, okay, so don't shoot me. I never read a lot of Spider-Man.

Track 3: It didn't really appeal to me too much but were the characters,

Track 3: I'm assuming that these tangential characters had better storylines in the comic books, right?

Track 3: I have to assume that they're not being portrayed with much liberty, or with much...

Track 1: That's one comic I didn't read either, so I'm not qualified in this one, but probably.

Track 2: I mean, it depends on the character. I mean, Morbius is a classic character

Track 2: that had a lot of like, he's like a fan, you know, he's a fan favorite.

Track 2: People love Morbius like in the comics. He's got a whole thing.

Track 1: But then they cast Jared Leto.

Track 2: But then they cast Jared Leto.

Track 1: Who is the franchise killer.

Track 3: Yeah. What is that? Like, do you think that like the movie execs know like,

Track 3: okay, this movie is going to be a tax write-off. Just fucking put Jared Leto in it.

Track 1: Knowing like maybe the.

Track 3: Angry i don't know i don't know i'm not i'm not an executive i don't have i'm

Track 3: not i don't have smart executive.

Track 4: That's the most logical theory i've heard.

Track 1: I mean truly like it's it

Track 1: is this weird thing where they put actors who are just not

Track 1: well liked and they've been bombing movies i

Track 1: mean i guess morbius technically did make money but after

Track 1: all the things you know the you know the marketing everything

Track 1: maybe they didn't make any money then that's that's another thing too that

Track 1: we that we always say sort of the beginning of

Track 1: the episode sometimes like this movie cost this much and it made

Track 1: this much and somehow we're supposed to put like

Track 1: worth of films and art based on like how much

Track 1: it was successful and i

Track 1: think that that's you know as a person as a host

Track 1: of a movie podcast i mean i don't think

Track 1: that that's at all like a real way to this is

Track 1: like a completely different this is a different tangent but like the the

Track 1: cost and then the profit of a film doesn't necessarily

Track 1: impact the quality like lots of great movies made no money and lots of terrible

Track 1: movies made tons of money so you know it's one of these things where this movie

Track 1: was maybe his most profitable but you know we all said at the beginning that

Track 1: it wasn't our favorite one or the best one necessarily so i don't really know

Track 1: where i'm going with this at all.

Track 4: Yeah i don't care about the profit margins of a movie unless i can use it to shit on the movie,

Track 4: either oh this movie sucked and how much did it yeah how much did it lose oh

Track 4: it deserved that or how the fuck did it make that much money people are fucking stupid.

Track 2: Yeah i mean like i i

Track 2: really think that you know it's it's really it comes down you know it's the same

Track 2: thing as like when we talk about how like nature

Track 2: is not protected because you can't put a prop you can't put a price dollar a

Track 2: dollar a dollar sign on it you can't put a price mark

Track 2: on it and you know it's like so we we have been conditioned by this system to

Track 2: just value things based on oh what can it what can you make off of it how much

Track 2: can you make off of it you know how much did it make what's the money what's

Track 2: the turnover you know that's that's all we think about and.

Track 3: That's so funny too because then like especially when you apply that logic to

Track 3: or when it comes to like art and things that They're more abstract and not just

Track 3: like blatantly one value or another.

Track 3: And I think like it kind of makes he kind of fuck with that a little bit by

Track 3: like creating art that he knew he was either going to destroy ahead of time

Track 3: or he knew was like kind of silly.

Track 3: And yet he knew, you know, someone's going to pay tens of millions of dollars for this thing.

Track 3: And the art world in general is pretty obscene when it comes to,

Track 3: you know, I just learned that Jackson Pollock was like, wasn't he like a fucking

Track 3: CIA player or something?

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 4: The whole modern art movement.

Track 1: The whole modern art, yeah.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: Iowa's Writers Workshop was funded by the CIA too.

Track 4: Yeah, it was funded by the CIA as a, like an American based art movement to

Track 4: help counteract Soviet realism that was coming out of the Soviet Union.

Track 4: Cause that was like a really good art style. If you ever look at it.

Track 3: Oh yeah, it is. Oh my God.

Track 2: Which, which is not to say that like modern art does not have value.

Track 2: That is not, you know, because there is a lot, there is a, a certain faction

Track 2: of people which use that, you know, like accusation, the accurate,

Track 2: you know, like, you know, that as a, as a cudgel against modern art, um,

Track 2: which is in and of itself actually feeding back into the fascist, like pushback against.

Track 3: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think it, yeah, it really kind of just goes to show

Track 3: you there's nothing that like the imperial power or like the,

Track 3: there's nothing that they won't use.

Track 3: And there's, there's nothing too sacred that they won't like get their little

Track 3: fingers in to act as their, you know, new tool of whatever, you know.

Track 3: And unfortunately for some people during some eras, it completely bastard or

Track 3: it completely like ruins the entire whatever, like modern art,

Track 3: you know, for some people.

Track 3: Now they only see it as like this psyop or you know and it sucks because like you said yeah that

Track 3: does ultimately like be their goal because now you

Track 3: don't trust anything or you don't you know you're you're

Track 3: just cynical about everything and and then yeah i mean they did it with um well

Track 3: you know church actually religion is probably the most like og of a tool to

Track 3: use for political gain especially in this hyper-capitalist world,

Track 3: I'm just trying to think like there's nothing off the table that they can't,

Track 3: you know, use as their own little.

Track 2: Don't make me talk about how I believe that Christianity is fundamental to the spread of capitalism.

Track 3: Oh, no. Yeah. No.

Track 2: Don't don't let me don't don't get me on that tangent. And Ward.

Track 2: Ward will be right there.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 3: Well, the thing is, and not to get too into this, but like so coming from like

Track 3: a science perspective, there's something about like critical thinking and the

Track 3: scientific method that when you're teaching kids, just teaching people about it.

Track 3: You're not just teaching them, why is the sun burning? Why is space?

Track 3: Why are stars over there? Anyways, you're not just teaching them that.

Track 3: You're teaching them a foundational way of thinking and perceiving the world

Track 3: that is ultimately going to lend itself to a much healthier,

Track 3: open-minded, better way of living life.

Track 3: And that's why a lot of those times people don't want that shit taught in schools.

Track 3: But then you look at something faith-based and And it's like,

Track 3: you know, religion absolutely serves a purpose, a very good one for a lot of people.

Track 3: But the foundation is faith. The foundation, especially for fundamentalists,

Track 3: is like, you don't ask questions, you take things at face value.

Track 3: And, you know, trying to ask questions or disprove it or anything,

Track 3: like, you're an infidel, essentially.

Track 3: And I think that that is, like, absolutely foundational to, like,

Track 3: where we find ourselves today. And like you said, with, like, this, like.

Track 3: Hyper cancerous spread of like profit at all costs and

Track 3: and um i don't think they could do it without one another

Track 3: especially when you think of christian christophascism as like

Track 3: the ultimate vessel for like corporations yeah

Track 3: the libertarian science is

Track 3: inherently dialectical yes materialist exactly

Track 3: and i've tried to like and a

Track 3: lot of like in astronomy particularly but

Track 3: like a lot of people in stem tend to be apolitical and

Track 3: they tend to be at least in where i where i come

Track 3: from but the more i learn about yeah like dialectical materialism and stuff

Track 3: and it's like i don't see how if you are genuinely in the sciences how you could

Track 3: have any other type of political thinking because it's literally like they they

Track 3: operate from the same fucking like observing the world type of we said in another.

Track 1: Episode recently that just like life is dialectical like

Track 1: that life is a dialectical you know

Track 1: everything in like in science especially the idea of like cause and effect you

Track 1: know these two things happen because of one another that is that's dialectical

Track 1: materialism and it's probably hard to transition from like a scientific conversation

Track 1: to being like by the way you're actually you're a marxist now and not not like literally but.

Track 3: Yeah you know it's all data right yeah it's it's

Track 3: literally it's all data like if you look at you know

Track 3: people for instance like people will use like great man theory

Track 3: to be like it was one guy who thought of the civil rights movement

Track 3: it was one guy who thought of the holocaust you

Track 3: know and it's like they don't it's like a hyper simplified disney-fied

Track 3: way of looking at things that doesn't you know you don't really need to to critically

Track 3: think too hard you know you they think oh hitler died so therefore there's no

Track 3: more risk of nazis ever again obviously that's wrong but um without looking

Track 3: at like okay what was the temperature of the fucking pool that the person took

Track 3: a shit in? I don't know how to explain it.

Track 3: It's literally all observation. It's all data. It's like, yeah,

Track 3: well, people were more susceptible to believe these horrible things because.

Track 3: Kind of like what's happening today, they're struggling economically, material conditions.

Track 3: And I think another reason why I'm so passionate about that is because if you

Track 3: come from, especially, I think, like an impoverished or like a lower class background,

Track 3: you're constantly faced with like people's preconceptions of,

Track 3: oh, well, if you grew up poor,

Track 3: you know, then you're most likely going to be addicted to drugs.

Track 3: So you're going to be more violent and stuff or in God forbid you are.

Track 3: And then people think, oh, you're just a bad person. You're homeless and addicted to drugs.

Track 3: You, that was a personal failure. And again, it's, it lends itself to a hyper

Track 3: individualism that I think is absolutely like the backbone of American capitalism.

Track 3: It's like, you didn't pull yourself up by your boots. Nope. Sorry about that.

Track 3: But yeah. And it's like social services. What the fuck? Like you want handouts?

Track 1: Going to the, to the movie just slightly. I'm curious what everyone's, uh,

Track 1: you know, I know there's sort of like the some of the dated jokes i'm wondering

Track 1: when everyone's sort of like favorite gag or like a scene from this you can't

Track 1: say the drug union part because we already said that one unless it's your favorite sorry bill it's.

Track 2: Fucked up man.

Track 4: It's so fucked i mean bill's opinion doesn't matter apparently um in.

Track 1: That case it's okay my.

Track 4: My two favorite parts is when jason muses is like what the fuck is the internet?

Track 4: Because that is just so funny. He sells it so fucking well.

Track 4: But I also love when the local sheriff corrects Will Ferrell about the ape.

Track 4: It's not a monkey, it's an ape.

Track 2: Alright, fine.

Track 4: It's just so unexpected from a small town sheriff.

Track 2: My other favorite is, who's watching these babies? That baby's watching that

Track 2: baby, and this baby is watching that baby.

Track 3: Will's watching the little one?

Track 3: Yeah oh it's so.

Track 4: Cute looks at the baby is like did you fucking hear that guy tell me how to

Track 4: fucking raise you can you fucking believe him.

Track 3: Man there's so many like i

Track 3: think two stand out to me and one has to

Track 3: do with carrie fisher and it's like after he learns like

Track 3: the road and like he's like i'm

Track 3: a follower of the book and he's like really i live

Track 3: my life by it and then he's like okay and he like wipes

Track 3: his mouth off and tries to go down on her and she's like whoa and like pulls

Track 3: over and like kicks him out and uh and i think the second like most one of the

Track 3: most classic jokes is uh when they get picked up by the girls and they their

Track 3: original patsy i forgot the actor's name um he has like a other.

Track 1: One from uh american pie um.

Track 3: Yes yeah and uh i.

Track 4: Can't remember his name.

Track 3: He like he like not so like he doesn't even try that hard to like get him to

Track 3: admit that he would fuck a sheep and then he immediately is like you know this

Track 3: motherfucking not one of us

Track 3: and then and it's like it's not even there to get him to admit that yeah.

Track 4: It's so he has to put into like a preposterous like well hypothetically if you

Track 4: were a sheep would you fuck a sheep.

Track 3: Yo this.

Track 4: Guy's not with us he said he fuck a sheep throws him out of a moving van.

Track 2: Sean williams scott that's yeah.

Track 1: Yeah i'm actually.

Track 4: About to watch a movie with him in it and uh.

Track 1: I have two that i think are funny like one is sort

Track 1: of like the entire bit with jason biggs and sort

Track 1: of like how he like recognizes him from american pies

Track 1: like oh you're the guy you like fuck the pie like he like then has a conversation

Track 1: about how like he can't shake this which is probably true actually

Track 1: in real life you probably constantly oh absolutely can't get

Track 1: over that joke that like whole scene it's funny i also like when

Track 1: they're when they like go to hollywood and they run into

Track 1: the studio i think they're filming like a scream one of the scream sequels and

Track 1: i think it's uh shannon daugherty is in there and then they've discovered that

Track 1: the the ape is the it's like is the ghost face and like they look over at west

Track 1: craven he's like yeah you know whatever they can he can be in the movie and

Track 1: i don't know i'm a as a horror fan i like that.

Track 2: To be fair i don't think the vast majority of people that were in American Pie

Track 2: did not move past or get past the role that American Pie put on them.

Track 2: None of, like most of the people in that movie never really went anywhere.

Track 4: I mean, Stifler's been in how many other movies, including this one,

Track 4: and we still refer to him as Stifler?

Track 3: Yeah. Kind of like the Harry Potter effect.

Track 1: Yeah, the only one is, well, Shannon Elizabeth, who's in that and this,

Track 1: but that's not who I was going to say. The only one is Allison Hannigan, like the, who's in.

Track 2: Yeah, Allison Hannigan. And Jennifer Coolidge, who I despise.

Track 1: I guess Eugene Levy, although he's not like, he was already, you know.

Track 2: Yeah, Eugene Levy does not count. Eugene Levy has always been a.

Track 2: Character actor and he's been in you know that's not.

Track 1: Natasha leone yeah yes she's had like a period of like less success and then

Track 1: recently she was in that netflix show i can't think of what it's yeah orange is.

Track 4: The new black she's yeah.

Track 1: She's got she's.

Track 4: She's got a little bit of her own success.

Track 1: Yeah and.

Track 3: Slums of beverly hills.

Track 1: I remember that movie good.

Track 3: Movie yeah and i feel like i don't hear a lot about it um she was really young

Track 3: god she must have been like early 20s late teens in that movie.

Track 1: I remember that i remember like that movie like being the like the trailer coming

Track 1: out that came out in uh i just looked up it came out in 1998 so that was three

Track 1: uh a couple years before american pie oh.

Track 3: Has marissa tomei she's the total babe.

Track 1: Alan arkin yeah that has a that had a good cast anyway so we but we've mostly

Track 1: proven that the american pie cast did not did not come to too much but poor

Track 1: jason biggs is uh probably the one he's definitely got the most definitely,

Track 1: yeah i was just looking at it he's been in movies recently but i have not heard

Track 1: of any of them like i'm just looking at his list of movies like i've never heard

Track 1: of any of these movies at all like they made five more american pie movies you.

Track 3: Ever like wonder like,

Track 3: I know for some actors, it's like a very deliberate choice that they only want

Track 3: to do the smaller, more indie flicks.

Track 3: And it's like, oh, I made all my money. Now I can just do the projects I want

Track 3: to do. And like, how much of it is that versus how much of it is like,

Track 3: well, I also couldn't get any other roles.

Track 1: I was wondering. I definitely think that's a lot of the time.

Track 2: Yeah, I think that's the Jason Biggs point.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 1: Yeah, like looking ahead. So he made the first American Pie,

Track 1: then he made the second one.

Track 1: And then he made one called American Wedding, I guess, where he gets buried.

Track 1: And then they made another one 10 years later called American Reunion,

Track 1: I guess, the high school reunion, a big surprise there.

Track 1: I'm sure he'll have another one in like five more years, American,

Track 1: you know, like where they have kids or something.

Track 3: American kids. It's just a school. Never mind.

Track 2: Unsurprisingly, Jason Biggs is a Zionist.

Track 1: Oh, really?

Track 3: Really?

Track 2: Yes, as is Natasha Lyonne.

Track 3: It's one of those again like i like like we were talking about earlier

Track 3: it's like you everyone is a shit lib or everyone's a

Track 3: zionist or i mean usually it's both you know here you are a shit liberal zionist

Track 3: and it's it's like exceedingly rare i mean i think is more and more people are

Track 3: speaking out against israel because now you have no choice i mean because like

Track 3: if you don't you are an animal like straight up but like well biggs is one of.

Track 2: Those people that like signed letters and did the whole thing.

Track 2: He's one of those people.

Track 3: Dude, did you see Amy Schumer's campaign?

Track 2: Oh, God.

Track 3: Sorry, I didn't mean to say her name out loud.

Track 1: Just don't say it three times or something might happen. I don't know.

Track 4: Isn't our next movie that we're covering an Amy Schumer movie?

Track 1: No, we will not be covering any Amy Schumer movies.

Track 3: I'm sorry.

Track 1: I've only seen a couple of them. I saw that one that had LeBron James in it

Track 1: And I like deeply to this day, like regret having gone seeing it.

Track 1: I don't even know what it was called. She wrote, it was like a wrecked or, uh,

Track 1: I think it was called Wrecked. She's like, her life is a mess.

Track 1: It's like dating or something. I don't know.

Track 1: Anyway, we don't need to talk about her. But I don't know.

Track 1: Any last thoughts, Jade, on Jay and Salabob strike back?

Track 3: Yeah. I mean, thank you for letting

Track 3: me talk about this movie and other things the last hour and a half.

Track 3: I appreciate the opportunity to yap about these things that I don't commonly

Track 3: get to talk about. So thank you for tolerating my word vomit and for having me on the show. Very fun.

Track 1: Of course. Thank you for, for being here. And, um, do you have,

Track 1: do you have anything like, do you want to think, do you want to plug or share

Track 1: or anything you want people to go check out? Perhaps?

Track 1: No, no pressure. I can cut it if you don't.

Track 3: No, I know. I was gonna say now, I'm not, I'm not nowadays. I'm just,

Track 3: um, but, uh, let me think, let me think.

Track 3: No, nothing that's coming out anytime soon. So, um, no.

Track 2: Any older material you'd like people to check out? Anything older?

Track 3: Well, if you're interested in the Boeing thing I was talking about or anything

Track 3: having to do with the intersection of science and shitification brought on by capitalism,

Track 3: I'll be putting more stuff out about that kind of special interest of mine.

Track 3: That's about probably it.

Track 4: Yeah, where can people find that?

Track 2: Where can people find it?

Track 3: Yeah, I'm just on the old apps, TikTok and Instagram.

Track 3: I will be more active in the coming weeks. I haven't posted since April,

Track 3: but that's where I'm at is the old TikTok,

Track 3: the old Instagrams until further notice until it's taken over officially by

Track 3: our Zionist overlords and just completely. Awesome.

Track 1: Yeah, I think I'll put your like the link to your to your content in the show notes.

Track 1: But any last things from you, Bill or Ward?

Track 4: No. Thank you so much, Jade, for coming on. I had a good time. It was great having you.

Track 2: Jade, you made me think about this movie in a different way than I had previously, which I appreciated.

Track 2: Definitely saw it and brought a new light to it, which I think is worth it.

Track 3: Cool.

Track 1: Awesome. Well, you've been listening to Left of the Projector,

Track 1: and we'll catch you next time.