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Welcome to the show.

My name is Johnny Ball and this is Speaking Influence, the show where

we delve into the world of influence and persuasion to help you build

your professional authority and to become a powerfully persuasive

communicator, understanding and applying the tools of ethical influence and

persuasion in business and in life.

This week, I am joined by a professional voice artist and she is also a

podcast host and a successful one.

And I got the connect with her at the Pod Fest online conference last year.

And wanted to have her on the show after connecting with her too.

There's a lot we can learn from how she runs her business, that you might

be able to put into action in yours as well, especially if you would

like to do some kind of voice work.

On the show, we speak to all kinds of people around the world of influence and

persuasion from marketers and branding experts through to psychologists, authors,

coaches, hypnotherapists, neuroscientists, people who are masters in the world

of rhetoric, political speech writing, and much more besides so that we can

fully understand and apply influence and persuasion tools in our lives.

And from time to time, take a look at the less ethical side of influence

and persuasion as well to enable us to recognize it and potentially be

able to defend ourselves against it.

That's my mission at Speaking Influence.

All that remains for me to say is enjoy the show

Welcome to Speaking Influence.

The show that helps you to master the psychology and application

of ethical influence and persuasion, in life and business.

With persuasive presentations and podcasting coach, Johnny Ball.

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Welcome to Speaking Influence my name's Johnny Ball.

And I am very excited today to be having a conversation with someone

who is an expert in the voice as something we all have to use.

And she is a voice artist.

We're going to find out exactly what she does.

I've been looking forward to this conversation for a very long time.

It's been a long time waiting just because we've had so much scheduled in,

but we finally managed to make it happen.

So let me welcome to the show, Jodi Krangle.

Hello.

Thanks for having me.

It's great to be speaking with you.

And so just explain what it is you actually do, because I'm

probably not doing you justice by saying that you're a voice artist.

There's a whole bunch of different terms for it.

Voice actor, voice talent, voiceovers, I, whatever you want to call it.

Yeah.

I basically help people make money with my voice.

That's kind of what it does.

That's a good thing to be able to do well.

Fantastic.

So it's quite a broad scope to what we do.

And we're going to talk about some of this as well.

Now, one of the questions that I've been launching into the conversations with

recently, which I've been really enjoying is asking people about somebody who

they respect and look up to admire for their influence and persuasion skills.

And.

Who would that be for you?

Or is it maybe more than one?

Well, it's, I, we were chatting about this a little before

we started recording this and I kind of feel like That's asking me

to choose which child I love most.

And I don't know that I can necessarily, cause there's a whole bunch of people who

have been a huge influence on my life.

And I just, I admire people who have persistence, who are

doing things from the heart and

not stepping on people along the way to get where they need to go.

That people are raising people that are raising other people up and also

happen to get success by doing that.

And that is sort of what I try to do every day.

But if there's one person in the media that I had to to mention, then it's a mix

of two people and that would be Marie Forleo and Brené Brown.

That's a good mix.

Those.

Yeah.

Those two women are huge personalities.

Tell it like it is, are very upfront about what they want and

need and what their goals are.

They encourage other people to ask for and go out and get what they want and need.

And I think that, especially for women, that can be hard for us to get our head

around sometimes, ask for what you need.

No one is going to know exactly what's going on in your

brain, unless you tell them.

So, and you don't have to sit back and just let life happen.

You can go out and get what you want.

That's possible for everyone or should be possible for everyone.

That's kind of the key, right?

Like it should be let's make that happen.

But those are, those are both two, two awesome people to look up to.

And I know for me, with Brene Brown is her stuff on shame and

overcoming that with it was huge.

And I, that was really important.

And so if you feel better talk about, so that's a huge

level of influence to be able.

A very transformative level of influence as well.

She's definitely her and Marie definitely using their voices for good things.

And I love her voice.

I do.

I love the way she speaks.

I love the way she phrases things.

I love how she puts things.

It's just so it's simple and it's straightforward and it

gets right into your heart.

And I love that about her.

Well, let's talk about voices them, because this is what you do.

How did you suddenly decide or did you grow up wanting to do voice work?

And you, did you recognize that you had a great voice?

Well, my, my voice journey began when I was very, very

young and my grandfather had a really gorgeous, deep chocolatey voice.

And I think he did really early radio, like way back in the day,

but like he was just fantastic.

He was a, he was a pilot, which is pretty awesome.

Yeah.

And.

And my mom is a singer and my dad plays guitar and piano by ear and our family,

our whole family is very musical.

My sister is a singer songwriter, guitarist and we, when we were

growing up, had sing along time, not story time, that was our family get

together thing before we went to bed.

It was pretty awesome.

I got to say and it always just strikes me as how different that really was

from most of the people that I speak to about this kind of thing, because.

Obviously not every family is musical and that's fine, you know, but it always

impressed upon me the importance of sound and why that has always had a big

influence in my life, right from day one.

I was singing before I could speak almost.

So it's always been a part of my life and actually approaching voiceover,

I was a singer first, so.

Had very little exposure to actual voiceover work.

I volunteered my time at the CNI B, which is the Canadian national Institute for

the blind back in 95 and 96, just for a year and learned what that was all about.

Cause I never really understood what it was.

I knew what a radio DJ was.

I didn't really understand what voiceover was and.

At the CNIB, we were reading magazines onto tape and it actually

was reel to reel tape at the time.

So it was quite the interesting process.

First of all.

And I liked the tech as much as I liked the voiceover.

me know that this was even possible.

I didn't even recognize that it was a profession that you could do it.

And that was the first time that I came across that and I

really enjoyed it, but it didn't actually take for quite some time.

It percolated in the back of my brain for a while.

And I was in internet marketing and SEO from 95 until 2007.

And in 2007, Google took over.

Like pretty much, there was no other search engine left and I got bored.

I don't know if you've ever had those moments in your life where you are so

tired of something that you just want to lean against the wall and slide

down it and just say not again no more.

like you're tired and you're bored and you just want to do something different.

I had that moment in 2007.

Internet marketing and SEO.

And I was like, this is not what I want to be doing for

the rest of my life it's time.

So basically I just switched my focus.

I was already self-employed.

So I just switched my focus from one thing full-time to another thing

full-time, and I devoted everything that I had into learning and coaching

and getting demos and understanding what the business was all about.

Made my mistakes in the early days by, you know, getting a demo done

by what they call a demo mill.

Basically it's a company that will take anyone with a credit card.

They don't give you any training.

They just put you in front of a mic and say here, say this and

we'll make you a nice, shiny new demo and it'll sound beautiful.

And it did sound beautiful.

It was very professionally done, but I sounded like crap.

I mean I wasn't at all connected to the copy.

I didn't know what I was doing.

There was nothing in that demo that would have showcased me as a talent.

It showcased them as a production facility.

Not so helpful.

Well, good for them, but not

not so helpful.

Exactly.

Yeah, So something to be careful

yeah, for sure.

I mean, I guess that kind of stuff is still around for

Oh, totally.

It totally is.

Is this still a professionally, is this still a profession that

people are able to come into?

I know from a guest I've had previously on the show, she said it's become

very challenging to get what there's been a lot of changes in the industry.

I'm wondering what you've seen.

I think that it would be really challenging to

come into this as an artist.

And I'm not by any means lessening the importance of that because artists are

definitely needed in just about every profession, as far as I'm concerned.

What I will say is that if you are not treating this as a business, if you're

treating it as a side hustle, or if you're treating it as an afterthought, or if

you are assuming that an agent is going to get you all your work, and all you

have to do is sit back and let it come,

you're going to be out of.

Because this is a profession where you need to wear a lot of hats.

You need to be going out there and getting the work yourself before

an agent will even look at you.

You need to make money before they're going to want to have you on their roster

because otherwise, they're hurting just as much as everyone in this business.

Yeah.

you know, they want to be able to make money and they're only

making 10 to 20% on what you're making.

So they have to look out for themselves too.

It's a, it's supposed to be a win-win partnership but if you are going to

have a partnership with somebody, you need to know that your business can

be a strong part of that partnership and it should be a business.

Yeah.

If somebody feels that they have a very strong voice, Is that the best

track for them to go down if they feel that they have a great speaking voice,

people could give them a lot of good feedback on that and with a bit where

they could probably make it even better.

But is that good track?

What do you think maybe there are other paths other avenues

available now that might be more, more beneficial for them to.

I think it all depends on what they want, what they really want.

has very little to do with your voice.

Your voice is a helpful thing.

Definitely having a nice voice can be super helpful, but if you

don't know what to do with it, then you're never going to make a living.

So really it all comes down to coaching before you spend

probably a large amount of money on a demo.

That's going to be your calling card and then going out, or even like trying

to get work while you're doing that.

I'm not saying you can't get work while you're doing that.

It's just, it's a lot easier if you have a calling card and it's a lot

easier if you've gotten training and the training, doesn't all only happen

with what to do with your voice.

It's all about mindset and being in the right space when you're doing a spot or.

Understanding who you are before you get in front of that mic, because

everything you've done before in your life is going to influence

how you sound on a mic, everything.

And it doesn't, I'm not saying like you could be a janitor.

That's great.

That's fantastic.

You've seen life.

So you know what, you know what you can bring to a mic.

It doesn't matter to me what your background was.

All of that is going to inform how you sound while you're

connecting with copy and you should use it, put it in your head.

You should use it, use it all because we are attracted to

human connection, to relating to other humans that we understand.

And if you are not being human on the mic, you're not going

to be able to get much work.

So really the coaching helps you get there.

And the demo demonstrates that you can get there on a regular basis.

This is what you sound like getting there and having a website and keeping

up with coaching because styles change.

And ultimately it's about knowing yourself.

Because if I didn't know who I was, I wouldn't know what copy I should

audition with and what I shouldn't.

I wouldn't know what jobs are best suited for me or which I

should leave to someone else.

Who's probably better at that sort of thing than I am.

I wouldn't be able to bring my authentic self to anything

that I'm putting out there.

And that really is key because being authentic is so important these days.

Yeah.

I would say you have a very warm and reassuring voice.

Is that how

I do a lot of health care.

Yeah,

so, so is that the kind of thing you mean by leading towards the,

like the qualities that are inherent in your voice and your style?

Oh, sure.

Yeah.

It definitely helps.

And knowing what those Are in the beginning can be hard to figure out.

So that's why a coach is really helpful.

That person can help you narrow down who you are on.

And get you into the type of reads that will get you work.

Are there, do you think there are a fairly specific vocal qualities

that, that people just tend to prefer when they're listening to people?

You know, I think it depends on the industry and it

depends on the genre of voiceover.

I know that there are all sorts of different things that

people can do in voiceover.

And there is pretty much a place for just about any voice out there.

So I really think it depends on the genre and who you're trying to

reach out to.

It's like companies, there are so many companies out in the world because

they appeal to different people.

Voices are the same way.

Do you think there are so many of us for so many of us, our voices,

uh, our moneymakers, whether we're professional voice artists or no I

professionals speaking work, are they professional coaching and training work

and podcasting something we both do.

And so my voice is to a great degree,

along with other aspects of me is my moneymaker.

I can't do a lot without it.

And so do you think that anybody like even someone like me who's been

doing a lot of speakers on for a long time would still benefit from

some coaching and some guidance.

I think being a lifelong learner is always a good thing.

I don't think that there's any coaching you could take that wouldn't be

beneficial and I, voice or non voice.

I mean, I, business coaching is something that I do.

I've gotten suggestions from how to run my business from coaching.

I've taken voice coaching.

Definitely.

Singing lessons every once in a while.

Yeah.

Breathing, anything that you think will get you where you need to go,

anything that will teach you something that you didn't know, you didn't know,

because I think that's important.

I think, like I said, being a lifelong learner is a really

important thing and yeah.

Vocal training for anyone is a good thing.

I've had a few, a couple of episodes with vocal coaches and

the two ladies have had on both have very different styles of vocal

coaching and both fascinating.

And I've got a lot of value from both of those episodes.

What is there, is there something that you like as a vocal exercise for your

soul or something that you learned from your own coaching experience that made a

big difference to your vocal performance?

Oh, I'm bad.

When it comes to vocal exercises, I'm not, I don't tend to do them a

lot, which is probably not a good thing, but breathing is definitely

something to pay attention to.

So when you're breathing.

A lot of us have learned to breathe air in and suck our stomach in, instead of

letting it expand because we're tense.

And Cynthia Jai, who I've had on my podcast is a vocal

coach for speakers and helping people overcome anxiety.

You know, CEO's who should sound like CEO's, you know, this kind of thing.

Right.

So, and she's fantastic.

And she actually learned it alerted me to this because I hadn't really

realized it was a thing, but people when they're tense, they suck in.

So, and they push their belly in as opposed to letting it expand with air.

So when you're taking in breath, you should be taking in breath

and expanding like a balloon.

Your stomach should be going out.

And when you're letting the breath out, when you're expelling it, it

should, your stomach should go in.

It shouldn't be the other way around.

And in some cases we've learned to do it the other way around,

but it's making us tense.

So that can be really detrimental to public speaking.

It can definitely be harmful to voiceovers or anything you do on a regular basis.

If you're breathing improperly, you're not getting all the resonance

out of all of the cavities of your body that you should be.

And also a sigh.

This was one thing that she mentioned when we were talking just the benefits

of letting out a soft breath, just letting it go relaxing just for a moment.

And it just makes everything better.

Yeah, I get that.

I felt better even just from your side area team or more what's up.

Yeah.

It's one of those.

Oh, really?

I've been told I should get into ASMR

Yeah.

It's I I've listened to that.

I find that I find I don't listen to a lot of it, but I do find some bit

very soothing and some people who do have these deeply soothing voices.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I went in, I went down the rabbit hole.

I totally listened.

I watched ASMR all the time and I have favorites.

So Yeah I do it all the time.

I, I took I did a podcast on it a blog slash podcast back in

I think almost to a year and a half ago or something like that.

And I took a deep dive because IKEA had done

an advertisement that was a half hour long that was an ASMR.

And I was like what is this thing?

ASM R first of all.

And second of all, what the heck are they doing with a half hour commercial?

Like, how does that even work?

Right.

Cause I'm talking about audio branding.

So I'm talking about advertising in a lot of cases.

And I was like, well, they're using sound in advertising, but

I don't get this what's going on.

And I definitely took a deep dive and went looking to find out what ASM R was.

And it was really a fascinating study.

Yeah I D I did find it interesting.

And so I kind of see things, some of it, maybe not so much, but I did tend to find

that there are certain voices that do.

Different emotions, I guess that's probably everyone's voices evoke different

emotions, but you know, it's also my listen to, as a man I'm thinking, well,

I would probably put on a Karen Carpenter song because, because for me, that's

like receiving a, a warm hug voice is like a big warm hug to me, you know?

that's actually kind of the music that I do sort of yeah.

When I sing, it's kind of it's that, yeah.

That, that low register.

Deep, rich.

Yeah.

I like that.

But those are the sort of

an influence.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

I've been, you know, someone who I know if I went in times of the possible.

Blue or low, or just needed a bit of a pickup that her voice

has just felt like that lift, lift that I needed to put me out.

And she's saying I'm not the only person, but she's just one of the,

probably the first breath we got by his voice suits me the most.

It would have been hers and still, it still does still has that effect

years after she's no longer with us, but but your voice has to have, have a

big influence and I will, the show is all about influence and about is why

it's great to be speaking with you.

Our voices have a lot of potential for a lot of potential

for influence and persuasion.

And so what are the things in your perception that are the, that make

our voices more influential that make us perhaps more, even more

persuasive with our styles of speaking?

I think active listening actually is really, really important.

Because if you're paying attention to what the other person is saying,

then you know how to respond and you know how to make that person feel

heard and feeling heard is how we relate to one another as human beings.

So I think that's really important.

And another reason why coaching is important for voiceovers is

because you are, it's kind of an almost inactive listening.

This is going to sound very strange, but because you're taking these

lessons and you're understanding what might be happening before

you started speaking that spot.

You're imagining a whole world in your head.

You're imagining that you're answering someone's question.

And so that makes it more of a human interaction, as opposed to just speaking

words on a page, that's part of what helps with the coaching, but it is all a

part of being a human being and relating to other human beings, which is part

of what active listening helps you do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think one of the biggest challenges that I think to come across with

people, and I think I experienced it.

To some degree.

And probably if you listen to some of my earlier podcast, you'd probably hear

it, is sounding natural when you're, when you're in conversation with people

standing conversational and it's something in my experience has just taken a while to

get to a level of comfort of doing this where I feel like we just

hanging out and having a chat.

It's interesting.

But to me, that's also, that's very much what I want.

That's the atmosphere that I want to create for, with my show.

And we just hanging out, we're talking about some interesting things.

We would probably talk about this.

If we went to a bar, you know, it's a.

or met at Pod Fest.

Yeah, exactly.

We met at pod Fest there and that's how we got that's how we got talking.

But you know, this is.

Th that's the style.

There is like a vocal signature almost of the show, which is, which is that, yeah,

this is a lighthearted for the most part, fun, conversational, but also diving into

some of the mindset and practicalities and experience elements as well, which

hopefully is is what makes it exciting.

What keeps me coming back hopefully is what keeps the audience coming back as

Yeah, definitely.

One of the other issues that you have when you're doing voiceover

work is that you're not really speaking to anyone at that moment.

I like, I love having conversations like this because I can actually see a face

and have a reaction and respond, you know?

So that's really cool.

Yeah.

But, but the vocal, the voice training.

The coaching that you'll get as a voice actor is so that you are able to

build these in your own head so that you can have these conversations in a

padded booth when no one else is there.

So how do you sound real And as if you're talking to a real person, when you're in

a padded room talking to a microphone, Possibly with headphones on your head.

It's as unnatural a setting, as you could possibly have, and

yet you have to sound natural.

So that's where the acting comes in.

Well, it is.

And many of us doing that now, not just with podcasts, but with YouTube

and other social media content that we're putting out, we're doing

videos within audios or, or both.

And we don't always sound natural with that.

Again, I'm thinking back to my, the very first YouTube video ever loaded

up, which got so badly pulled apart.

I took it down a few days later, but, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was bad.

It was, I wish now I wish I'd left it out.

Just so I could see how go back and see how bad it was.

But yeah, at the time, my, my ego couldn't take it.

Yeah.

Um, fortunately, but I know even I know that I didn't sound natural.

I didn't look natural.

It didn't sound natural.

And I guess the issue that I ended up taking with the criticism I got was,

but I think I believed it because I thought, because I could actually look

at it and say, yeah, they're right.

Actually, it didn't seem very authentic.

It didn't feel very natural.

And that's a big thing.

time.

It does a bit, I mean, are there some other, some things that

we can do to help speed up that.

Maybe reading to someone out loud that.

might actually help.

I'm thinking that if you are actually imagining that you are reading to someone

that that can take you out of being inauthentic right there, because if

you're actually imagining someone else in front of you that you're speaking

to, then that makes you more human.

Someone to relate to.

thus the acting part where we have to imagine.

But the, that there's somebody else there much as actors do..

Yeah, I think that's, that's a good way to think about it.

You know, a lot of people saying that what I'm doing when I'm doing video

work, now, I kind of imagine that I'm on a, I'm on a call like this with

you or a zoom call with somebody.

And on the other side of the camera, so to speak is somebody else.

And that's who I'm talking to.

So I don't see it anymore as I'm talking to a camera.

I see it.

I do see it as I'm talking to.

To a person.

I think both, I don't feel that I have to imagine somebody specific now.

Whereas I think early on I did start off by thinking about somebody who I talked

to very naturally and very comfortably,

That's a good point, actually for a while, I used to put up

photographs of people in my booth and talk to them like that's, you know,

that could be a good tip.

Yeah.

It could be a good tip for people.

If you're doing this

I mean, it helped for a while.

Yeah,

I, I'm quite lucky.

I have one of those.

Um, I have a camera on my it's called a center cam and it

comes halfway down my screen.

Have

I'm looking at one right

you have one as well.

They're pretty cool.

I have one as well.

I kickstarted them.

Oh, yeah, me too.

Me too.

I and S and for, probably for the same reason that you, you can feel more like

you're naturally looking at people rather than looking up above your computer

screen, and you can also see stuff on your screen whilst you're having a

conversation with them, which for the kind of work we do is, is quite important.

Very much so.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we're not affiliates for center cam, but maybe we, maybe we, should be.

maybe we should be.

Yeah, it is a great camera though.

I got to say like, it's actually pretty, that's the one I'm using right now.

Yeah, I have to, I really love it.

It's a great, it was a great Kickstarter.

I was very happy when it, when it finally arrived, somebody nearly

something nearly so often that he got delivered to another office in my block.

And I very nearly didn't get it.

So, but I was persistent.

I was persistent.

Okay.

So, so let me see you, you do podcasting as well.

What took you down the path of getting into.

You know, I resisted it for a really long time.

I really did.

I joined a business mastermind group and in that business mastermind,

a lot of the people that were a part of it were starting podcasts

for various different reasons.

I was the only voice actor in the entire thing.

And When they did that, they definitely noticed an increase in their engagement

with the people that they wanted to bring their products and services

to, but also just, I think it fired them up and I liked seeing that fire.

So I was like, oh, Okay.

Maybe it's my turn then.

And my.

My first podcast only lasted 30 episodes started in July of 2019.

And I stopped it because I Was kind of doing one of those

general wisdom type of podcasts.

And I, Just talking about how you didn't have to be on all the time, how you could

actually rest and have peace and not have to hustle every second of the day.

Or if you're going out and experiencing things with friends, you do not have to

spend your entire time taking pictures.

Maybe you should just experience the moment.

I was having conversation last nightnight at

Oh really?

Okay.

Yeah.

It is not an unusual conversation, but, but I think that it tends to happen with

people who are perhaps a little older.

Right.

I

So I waI agree.

Finding that I was just saying these kinds of things, and people

were asking me to be a life coach.

I was not, that was not what I was heading to and not at all what I had in mind,

but definitely gave me the idea that if you have a podcast, you are automatically

assumed to have a voice of authority.

And that was not the authority I was after, so I rethought the podcast and

was thinking about what do I care about?

What's my passion.

And my passion is sound.

It really is.

So the voice acting is a part of that.

Podcasting itself and music and the science of what goes on in

our brains when we hear things and how it influences our buying

decisions, but also our daily lives.

Everything we do.

So I brainstormed with them.

We came up with the name of Audio Branding and the subtitle

is the hidden gem of marketing.

And I.

Do you talk about advertising a lot and audio branding specifically, but I

also talk about the whole life aspect.

Of how it influences everything.

And I've talked about ASMR and binaural beats and sound healing and

spaces that are made specifically to sound good and how we can't

block our ears the same way that we block our eyes when we're sleeping.

So noise can be a problem.

And.

The fact that planets make noise out in space and voice AI and all

of this really interesting stuff and how you can influence what you taste

with, what you're hearing and how our brain, our senses work altogether.

It's just a really fascinating study.

So.

I'm much happier doing what I'm doing now.

I started that in November, 2019, and I just released the hundred

and third episode, the a hundred and fourth comes out on Wednesday.

you start the month after me.

I, and I, I know I I'm 110 episodes out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So It's just become a passion and like you, I'm sure it's just something

that I think about all the time.

It's something for me.

It's something that.

I thought it would be a good thing to do.

I did start a podcast back in 2012 and maybe did about eight episodes

and maybe a similar experience to you, but with a much bigger gap in between.

And this is not me talking about myself.

Wasn't very interesting for me.

And at that time as well, most people.

I had never heard of podcasts as well.

So I wasn't really picking on another thing began like five or six downloads

for, for an episode, as you think some of them have more, I think go back and check.

They're still online.

And not that I want to encourage anyone to go and find them, but,

but they're still onine and they have picked up more downloads.

But again not stuff that ties in with what I wanted to do.

And similarly to you in my show has been a bit more of an evolution

in terms of defining what I want to talk about and making it more

about what I'm passionate about.

There we started off being primarily public speaking and then developed in

with the influence and persuasion stuff.

And now it's much more influence and persuasion focused with things like public

speaking and everything else that comes around that because podcasting itself is

a hugely influential industry right now.

definitely.

I will say actually I had a song writing resource on the web back

in 1995, that ended in 2016.

It was called the muses muse.

And I had a radio show off of that website, probably it

started in like 2002, 2003.

We were doing it in real audio.

So we were playing independent musician songs, about 12, and then

making a little commentary in between.

With this radio show right around the time when live 365 was around.

I don't know if you remember those days, but way, way, way back when they did

not have such a thing as podcasting.

And you had to just put it out on the web and see if people listened.

So I sort of had an inkling of what might become podcasts, but I never

really ended up doing them until 2019.

So you, but you, you have that taste that almost an induction in

the podcasting early on before that.

I did.

I kind of knew the structure of how it, it should go, you know, that kind of

W what ha what do you feel that it has done for you professionally?

Well, I think it's allowed me to make a deeper connection with

the people who might hire voice actors.

Also the whole point of this was really to sort of let people know that

sound should not be an afterthought.

And that was really the point of all of this, because anyone who works in

sound knows that what ends up happening is that you end up being the bow on

the present or the icing on the cake.

You don't end up being a consideration when things start and because

of where sound is going, right.

It's super important to get it right.

Cause if you don't get it right, it's going to ruin the whole production.

And I don't see why in that context, you wouldn't want to think

about it at the beginning of the project instead of the end of it.

So just trying to raise all boats for all of the people who work in sound and

need to be a part of that discussion from day one, as opposed to day 53.

Yeah, I think it's a very powerful, medium, and I hope more people.

What we see more people are coming.

Certainly more people did over the pandemic period.

And I know some of them will have come and gone already, but it seems that

more, at least more people are aware the podcasts are there now, and more

celebrities have been coming through it.

And that's been increasing awareness of the whole podcast industry as well.

Which initially had initially I didn't see it as a good thing.

And then I had Pat Flynn talking and saying, oh yeah, That's the right

perspective to have on it, because more people are finding out about podcasts

and, you know, they're more likely to find you and search for other kind of areas.

And it's not not that they're only going to ever listen to one show.

It's a very, very powerful, yeah, very, a very, very powerful medium.

I wonder.

I In terms in terms of your own show then, you probably have quite

a significant focus on the on the audio quality of your show.

How do you make sure that your show sounds

great.

And has those sorts of branding things that you talk about?

I hire an editor because I know that that is not my area of strength

and it is someone else's area of strength.

My colleague Umberto Franco, who is a voice actor in Portugal, actually.

He's the one who produces and audio edits the show and.

He does a fantastic job with it and has been involved pretty much since day one.

So he was even helping me with the previous podcast.

And thankfully, because I don't think I could do it on my own,

but yeah, it takes a village.

Sent some behind the, behind the scenes magic, but that's a good thing

to be selected that sometimes we don't all have, we can't have all the skills.

Be the Jack of all trades to be able to do everything.

I know some of the technology is advancing.

There's making us all sound a bit better and things are improving, especially as

the industry keeps growing and developing.

But still they're the people who have the magic who really

know what they're dealing with.

They're probably always going to make you sound a lot better than, than

automations and magic things like algorithms and things of that kind of.

It helps to use things like Riverside, which we're on right

now, or Squad Cast is the one that I use and I'm turning echo cancellation off.

And everyone having headphones makes the audio way better

quality, just so everyone's aware.

Yeah.

Yeah.

it just, it makes it easier because I think when you have the echo

cancellation on, it makes it impossible for people to talk at the same time.

And so what happens is you'll have the internet or whatever is

working on the audio, lowering the volume of someone else, and then

you just won't hear them at all.

And then it gets all, it gets all wonky and

Yeah.

It's not, not quite, not quite perfected that.

Yeah.

that's kind of what zoom does unfortunately.

So when I was using zoom, before I started using squad cast, I actually would ask

my guests to record locally on their own machine and then send me the audio

That's what I would do with zoom as well.

Yeah.

It, it, it, because it just ended up, sometimes I would be heard very clearly

and they would be emptied, whisper in the background and it just wasn't.

Or It would be interrupted.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or, or the internet, you know,

Oh, yeah, that that

That's what happens.

right?

what happens plenty of times.

And I've had that with other, with other platforms as well.

But you know, now with, I use Buzzsprout as well, and they

have magic mastering that helps.

I know you use a descript and they have studio sound.

So all those, those are automations that do help me sound better.

But I know that working with somebody who understands all your engineering would

probably make you sound even better.

And at some point, I'm sure I will do that with my show.

You know, I've, I've had this discussion with people where

they are always waiting to outsource.

And I will say that I think you can do it a lot sooner than you think you can.

And The reason I say that is because when you outsource things

that you really don't enjoy doing, or that take you forever to do.

You are freeing up your own time to do more of what you love to do

by paying someone else to do that.

And it's worth it.

I have to say it's totally worth it.

Yeah.

So for my own sanity, it's worth it.

one thing that, I mean, I, I do help people get started with their podcast

or their journey into podcasting sometimes just as guests, as well as hosts.

But one thing I definitely will say to them is that they don't

need all of this to get started.

Like I started with zoom, I guess you did as well.

That was, that was, it was.

It is adequate to get started and you can make the improvements as you go

along and having a tip, like yeah.

Get your guests to record as well and send you the file.

That's that stuff that's really good to know is like, yeah, you can make

it work pretty well with some basic or even free tools before you start

investing money into your podcasting.

My philosophy is now podcasting has to be making me money before.

I'm investing more money into it.

Which doesn't, isn't strictly true, but I try and keep that philosophy.

I guess I'm using my podcast as an outreach to

potential clients as well.

So for me, it's a long tail marketing plan, as opposed to something

that I'm specifically thinking I'm going to make money from.

Yeah, I think this is very much how I think of it.

Now my me, the podcast is more part of my own positioning is also part

of the content that I get to put out and, and to have those conversations

where my, or my potential future clients get a sense of that.

All right.

He, you know, he does know what he's talking about and he knows

all these amazing people as well.

It's probably a good person to come and find out more stuff.

That's my hope.

Anyway.

it gives your voice authority,

It does all of those things.

Yeah, I definitely think it's for, I'm primarily working with coaches, speakers,

and trainers to, to get down this path.

But you know, there, there's so many different avenues into podcasting

and they're not all educational or developmental in some of the.

And it's fun and they're just as valid and just as good to get into.

In fact, some of them are, uh, doing very, very well from that.

And you it's, like you said, you have to know what you want from it.

You have to know what you want to get from it.

And that's very much the case with this.

So for those people who want to have it as part of their professional ecosystem,

I think is very valuable right now.

and I do also think it's a great time to be getting on board with it.

W do you think that.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

We are only just starting to see the beginning of this really.

I mean, when you talk with people and they have a podcast, it kind of makes

you feel like everyone has a podcast, but really, I mean, like, this is if you

relate this to website, Back in the day.

and I remember those days,

Me too.

There were a lot of websites at a certain time, but it's only exploded.

It has only become the default of everything that you need

to be online at this point.

And I think podcasts will get there, but they're not there now.

no, where near right.

And.

I mean, it's still, it's big because we're in it, you know, like

we feel like it's big because we're a part of it, but it still has a long way to go.

But I think being in it now, and both of us kind of being very active

for a similar amount of time in it.

I've noticed development.

I've noticed growth and even sort of significant increases in it.

I've also noticed people knowing, realizing and understanding that there

are other ways than sponsorship to to monetize a podcast or a, as you say, to

really make it sort of like a similar value to having a book of getting that

exposure and being known as an expert in your industry and being out there, you

want to be that top of mind presence and podcasting is a really powerful way to

do that, not just with your own show, but with that within going on other

people's shows, is there a very powerful

Oh, yeah.

As evidenced.

As, as evidence.

Yeah.

Encourage, encourage everybody to do that.

And so I want to ask you, I mean, this may be a vocal thing for you or maybe

not, but I feel that everybody has their own particular strength in their

own influence and persuasion in life.

And I wonder if there's a skill or a tool of influence and persuasion that you have,

like, so your go to your strength, your forte in trying to persuade or influence.

Oh I'm not sure what that would be really.

I mean, other than the fact that I go on to other podcasts and talk a

lot about the importance of sound I mean, cause it is super important and

I have only gotten more passionate about that as my podcast goes on.

You know, I think I don't, I don't know.

As far as my own voice is concerned, you

Maybe I feel like it's not, some people are very good

at telling stories to persuade.

Some people are very good at saying things.

And I guess saying things in a certain way.

I can imagine it's very much a situational thing as to what, what

sort of thing you look at it there, but just sort of thinking, well, what's

something that you're strong at in terms of being able to influence them.

So is there a vocal things, like, do you feel that there's a voice that

you have, that's more persuasive than some of your other ways of speaking?

You know, I think that in some ways the warmth can help a lot.

You know, that whole a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down.

Yeah.

I think in that sense, personality is that

I don't like to be harsh.

I would rather give with one hand and then take with the other, you know what I mean?

Like kind of like I'd like it to be even so that's always my perspective on things.

And I don't know, maybe that comes through in the voice.

Possibly.

So, you know, it's not always an easy question to answer, but it's always

a interesting thing to think about.

I wonder you mentioned about your podcast and you've been around

for a while with your show.

You have over a hundred episodes now.

And so tell us about some of your most recent episodes and or what people

could come and listen to with you.

Well, the hundredth episode actually is one to listen to if you

want to sort of get an overview, because a lot of the snippets that I use in that

hundredth episode are demonstrations of what the full episodes were.

Over the years or over the years, over the months, I guess, of the podcast.

And and sort of demonstrate where some of the ones that I felt were most influential

were, and I let people know which episode number they are so that they can go

back and listen, if they really want to.

Recently I did a solo episode all on podcasting, actually.

So some of the tools that I use and how I put together my podcast and linking to

some helpful tools and such that people can use And then the person that I spoke

to most recently was a guy named Shas Mira, who has an audio branding company

here in Toronto, and has just done some really groundbreaking, groundbreaking

work for destination Toronto.

So some tourism stuff that really needs help right now and all sorts

of other things that they've done.

But his information was really interesting and what his company

does is also really interesting.

That was a two-parter and coming out on Wednesday, this Wednesday is another

fellow by the name of Austin Frankie.

And he has a company called Woo Punch.

Nice

Uh, w O punch.

Yeah, it's, it's really interesting.

And he talks about behavioral advertising.

So why advertising works because of how our human brains work and how we

should be thinking of advertising.

And that may be the whole mad men thing is more of a myth than actually

very entertaining to watch, but yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

It's it?

This is kind of an interesting way that he described it.

He described us as polyamorous loyalty.

Okay.

Like you can be loyal to more than one brand in a sector,

you just you'll go back and forth or you'll use one for a while or one

will have a sale and you'll go there.

Or, you know, it's just, we have certain amounts of loyalty, but

they're not like the huge, oh my God, I love this company I'm only

ever going to buy from this company.

Like, that's not how we work.

That sounds very, this is really interesting and it's definitely

going onto my download list.

I want to, I want to have a listen to that hope I'd be about, so you chose

Audio Branding and there'll be a link to that in the show notes for anyone

who wants to go and check that out.

If anyone's wanting to get in touch with you and maybe talk to you about

the way you do a pan up more, what's the best way for them to find out more.

Well, you can reach me on my website, which is voiceovers and

vocals.com a and D not the, an sign.

And if you want more information on the podcast itself and the there's

a trailer for the hundredth episode, actually right on the page you can

go to audio branding podcast.com.

Perfect.

That's good.

So now I always like to ask my guests for a book recommendation or resource

recommendation, and I do allow more than one, but it is a book that you would

recommend either a related to things we've been talking about or just something

that's been very impactful for you.

What.

There Are actually a couple, but the first I would

mention anything by Seth Goden.

You can't go wrong by just reading anything of his yeah.

And Marie Forleo, actually her, everything is figureoutable book is actually really

I listened to the audio book about this year and I really enjoyed it.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah,

she's just a personality.

I love her to death.

She has, she has a great show as well.

Right.

She has a great

Yes, she does.

Yeah.

Marie TV actually.

And I'm definitely subscribed and watch

Yeah, I've

And actually I learned of Brene Brown through her.

okay.

So it all connects in.

Yep.

Fantastic.

We're great.

People lead to other great people.

That's very often.

That's how the magic works.

Definitely.

I want to ask you as we sort of start to draw things to a close, really,

if there's one thing you have people most remember, or take away from the

conversation, or maybe even put into practice, what do you think that would be?

What you hope?

I think pay attention to the sound around you.

It's very important to to actually hear what's going on and.

No, not if you are a content marketer, if you're a filmmaker, if you're an ad

person, if you are involved in any of this, get your sound involved early on.

Because I will say that one of the things Shez pointed out in his

episodes is that there are a lot of well-known brands that are using the

same directory music licensed song.

On all of their advertising there and like such different brands

using the same piece of music.

And it just makes them look like they don't know who they are.

So if you're going to pay attention to that kind of thing, maybe

using a music directory isn't the best idea because anyone can use

that sound, that song as well.

And if you want to be unique, Maybe think about it a little earlier, you know,

don't just tack it on as an afterthought because you can run into that problem.

Yeah, I thought I just maybe sit down on the keyboard and create

some original music for my own show.

Well, I it's, it's something that I was guilty of in the first hundred,

almost 99 episodes of my own podcast.

And then for the hundredth episode, I actually did commission someone to

make some music specifically for my podcast, and I'm really happy with it.

And I'm glad that I did that.

But it takes some time.

I understand maybe it isn't always workable, but if you have an actual

audio brand and you can go to those music libraries that you've created

that are specific to your company, then first of all, you're not spending a

ton of money on these music directories because you already have your own stuff.

And second of all, no one else can use your music.

It's you.

absolutely.

You could license it even.

You could license it.

Exactly.

You totally could.

I would really suggest that you go to Shez's second episode.

I think it is there's a two-parter and the second episode, he links to a

video on Vimeo that he had his company put together to show you all of those

brands using exactly the same music.

And it's ridiculous.

am definitely going to kind of have to check the app.

I want to listen to both of those episodes, for sure.

Jodie, it has been a lot of fun.

I've learned some things from today.

I've been inspired by some of the things you talk about as well.

I definitely want to try and make my voice a bit warmer and friendlier

and a reassuring like yours is that at the moment, it's kind of like a

sandpaper on metal filings right now.

But

Oh, I would definitely not say that.

Okay.

but yeah, no.

it's okay.

See, he's maybe just a bit dry after a weekend of speaking,

perhaps, but but thank you.

It's been a

You've been working

I've been working.

Is this true and flying, which drives you out as well.

and flying.

Yes.

does, does all of those things, I'm still rehydrating, but it's been

a real pleasure speaking to you.

It's been a treat to have you on the show.

Finally, I thank you for bearing with me coming and being on the show.

Jodi Krangle, thank you so much.

Thanks.

Thanks for tuning in.

I hope you've enjoyed the show.

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I have some amazing guests lined up for you coming very soon as recent

interview with the amazing Grant Baldwin, who is the host of one of my

favorite podcasts called Speaker Lab and also the author of an incredible

book called The Successful Speaker.

If you are into speaking anyway, Maybe you're a fan of Speaker Lab then do you

make sure you tune into that show is coming up very soon, as well as some other

amazing guests, some high profile, some you may not have heard of, but all of them

having great information to share around the world of influence and persuasion.

I'm happy to announce as well, that I have my book almost ready

for publication and it's all about building influence through podcasts.

So no big surprise there as to the subject matter, but it's

all ready for publication.

The book is finished writing.

It's being edited right now and I'm getting it ready to go.

So look out for that very exciting times here at speaking influence headquarters.

I'll look forward to seeing you on another show very soon whatever

you're doing wherever you're going have an amazing rest of your day.