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(E23) Claire Reindorp: do it scared
Episode 23 • 8th July 2024 • Leaders with impact • Lee Griffith
00:00:00 00:51:47

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It’s a pretty big responsibility to lead an organisation aiming to change the future for young women in the workplace. How you balance supporting and advocating with campaigning. How you tackle prejudice, bias and years and years of ingrained practice. How you make yourselves seen and heard in a noisy world. Well, today’s guest is doing that and some.

I’m feeling totally in awe and inspired after talking with Claire Reindorp, Chief Executive of the Young Women’s Trust. If Claire was a stick of rock she’d have charity and tackling inequalities running right through the centre of her. We talk about:

  • Claire's background and upbringing has shaped her beliefs, purpose and approach
  • being a new 'learner' CEO - expectation versus reality
  • getting comfortable with the things you know least about
  • finding support
  • what it’s like leading a small charity
  • leading as a feminist and leading a feminist organisation
  • realities of making an organisation inclusive
  • leading to make change happen and staying alert to practising what they value
  • juggling multiple agendas
  • collaborating instead of competing with other charities
  • leading during the election and being heard in a crowded space
  • how organisations can better support young women in the workplace
  • how you can get involved and support the Young Women's Trust.

Resources and helpful links

About leaders with impact

Want to know the secret of great leaders? In Leaders with impact we'll be exploring what makes an impactful leader; sharing stories of success and strategies that set them apart.

If you are ambitious for your organisation but are struggling to identify what you can do differently as a leader to deliver the right improvements, then hit subscribe to learn how you can get clear on your strategy, implement some self-leadership and connect with those you serve.

New episodes are released every fortnight.

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Transcripts

Lee Griffith:

It's a pretty big responsibility to lead an

Lee Griffith:

organization aiming to change the future for young women in

Lee Griffith:

the workplace. How do you balance supporting and

Lee Griffith:

advocating with campaigning? How do you tackle prejudice bias and

Lee Griffith:

years and years of ingrained practice? How do you make

Lee Griffith:

yourself seen and heard in a noisy world, or Today's guest is

Lee Griffith:

doing that and I'm Lee Griffith and leadership strategy coach

Lee Griffith:

and in the leaders of impact podcast on proven it's possible

Lee Griffith:

to succeed without following outdated rules and old school

Lee Griffith:

stereotypes. I'm here to help you get clear on your personal

Lee Griffith:

strategy, implement some self leadership, and connect with

Lee Griffith:

those who serve through your communication so that you can

Lee Griffith:

deliver improved organizational performance, engagement and

Lee Griffith:

reputation. If you want more leadership insights, sign up to

Lee Griffith:

my monthly newsletter at Sundayskies.com. So I'm feeling

Lee Griffith:

totally in awe and inspired after talking with Claire

Lee Griffith:

raindrop, Chief Executive of the young women's trust, we talk

Lee Griffith:

about what it's like leading a small charity leading as a

Lee Griffith:

feminist and leading to make change happen. There's a lot to

Lee Griffith:

unpack so settling. I'm delighted to welcome Claire on

Lee Griffith:

doc to the latest from impact podcast. Thank you for coming

Lee Griffith:

on, Claire.

Unknown:

Thanks for having me.

Lee Griffith:

I'm going to jump straight in with my first

Lee Griffith:

question which I asked everyone and that is what does impactful

Lee Griffith:

leadership mean to you?

Unknown:

Oh, well, I think I mean, particularly in the

Unknown:

context that I'm working in, where you're leading a charity,

Unknown:

you know, it is obviously achieving your organizational

Unknown:

purpose, and bringing together a team of people to bring out the

Unknown:

absolute best of them. So that together, you can really go out

Unknown:

and achieve your goals and make the difference in our context

Unknown:

that people come to charities to work for a purpose, and they're

Unknown:

full of that purpose. And values are really in the job right from

Unknown:

the beginning. So you've got a really big Springboard there to

Unknown:

achieve impact. And probably easier in some ways than than

Unknown:

the the impact job that some leaders have. Because you have

Unknown:

hearts and minds so much there at the beginning. And so it's

Unknown:

pushing on an open door, I think to bring that together to

Unknown:

achieve your vision, and ensure in the context of charities, of

Unknown:

course, that your vision is one that has come from the people

Unknown:

that you're working with and for so that it is actually not just

Unknown:

what you think people need. But what actually is going to bring

Unknown:

about the social change, or the really good quality services, or

Unknown:

whatever it is that your your Charities is set up to achieve.

Unknown:

Say little

Lee Griffith:

bit about your charity, just so we've got some

Lee Griffith:

context for where we're gonna go in this conversation, because

Lee Griffith:

there's so many things I want to dive into. But I think about the

Lee Griffith:

context be helpful. Of course, well,

Unknown:

just the last couple of years, I've been working for

Unknown:

young women's trust, as chief execs my first chief exec role,

Unknown:

so on a very steep learning curve, and we champion young

Unknown:

women aged 18 to 30, who are on low pay or no pay. And our

Unknown:

purpose is really to create a more equal world of work for

Unknown:

those young women and raise their incomes particularly young

Unknown:

another knows pay. And we do three things when we provide

Unknown:

practical help, and support for young women with their CVs

Unknown:

applications, free professional coaching, we carry out research

Unknown:

so that we can really shine a spotlight on the lives,

Unknown:

realities of young women's lives in the workplace. And we bring

Unknown:

together 1000 strong network of young women to support each

Unknown:

other and campaign for workplace equality. And I'm sure later on

Unknown:

in this in our chat, you know, I have more of a chance to talk a

Unknown:

little bit about our work and what it what people listening to

Unknown:

this, you know, might want to do to support it. It's an amazing

Unknown:

charity. And we've been around since the 1860s. in one form or

Unknown:

another, which I love. I mean, in those early days, we were

Unknown:

really about supporting women who were migrating to cities in

Unknown:

the industrial revolution, or to work in work in factories and

Unknown:

workshops in terrible conditions and support them. But of course,

Unknown:

many things have changed for women and young women in the

Unknown:

workplace, but awful lot hasn't. And we're focused on this income

Unknown:

gap of 1/5 between young men and young women, young women take

Unknown:

home 4000 pounds less than young men each year still. And we know

Unknown:

that's about obviously, being stuck in low pay part time

Unknown:

working discrimination in the workplace. And we're here in the

Unknown:

21st century. Still here to tackle those kind of challenges

Unknown:

working with young women so it's it's a fabulous it's a fabulous

Unknown:

organization. Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

I'm really I'm really important causes and

Lee Griffith:

place in the kind of conversations that need to

Lee Griffith:

happen both in the workplace but more at a more societal level.

Lee Griffith:

as well. So definitely we will be diving into some of these

Lee Griffith:

themes. But I want to take you back a little bit to, I suppose,

Lee Griffith:

what's what's shaped you as the person and the leader you are

Lee Griffith:

today? I know you've got a really strong background in the

Lee Griffith:

charity sector. So I'm wondering how you've kind of ended up in

Lee Griffith:

that place? Yes,

Unknown:

well, I have become a charity sector live. But I was.

Unknown:

I mean, I'm in my 50s. Now I was one of four kids, I was born in

Unknown:

the East End, my dad at that point was a cure it and my mom

Unknown:

was up to her eyeballs in childcare, because I'm one of

Unknown:

four children born within six years, because I have identical

Unknown:

twin. And we didn't have much money, but we were very well

Unknown:

loved. And were brought up in an environment with very strong

Unknown:

values, I think partly. And my dad was born in South Africa

Unknown:

with a South African mom and came here when he was young, but

Unknown:

had a very lifelong kind of commitment to anti apartheid

Unknown:

movement and anti racism and a strong, very, in a very

Unknown:

politically active and a my mom, who came from a family that

Unknown:

weren't at all sort of academic, but ended up doing a PhD, which

Unknown:

took her to Uganda, from the outskirts of, of Birmingham to

Unknown:

Uganda, it changed her life, that experience and, and made

Unknown:

her a lot of the person that she was, although she sort of died

Unknown:

very young, I think I she was an incredibly compassionate person.

Unknown:

And she had a campaigning sort of spirit. And that left me with

Unknown:

a strong sense of purpose around tackling inequality, and

Unknown:

probably also with a very unhealthy work ethic. And I

Unknown:

mean, I think that when I was in my early 20s, I was lots of

Unknown:

young women in my early 20s, I was a bit lost for a while, and

Unknown:

I worked in pubs. And I worked in a care home, which I loved,

Unknown:

actually. But then I found a job as an administrator in a local

Unknown:

charity called HomeStart, which is still NGOs going on today. I

Unknown:

think it's a brilliant model that in the voluntary sector,

Unknown:

and I went from there to get to use work, and I worked for the

Unknown:

Refugee Council ran their services in London, I worked for

Unknown:

Peabody Housing Association, doing supported housing, and

Unknown:

then increasingly looking at bringing about change on housing

Unknown:

estates in London to benefit children and young people. So

Unknown:

I've still followed a path through the voluntary sector

Unknown:

that took me to young women's trust today, which enables me to

Unknown:

carry on my, you know, passion for tackling inequality. And

Unknown:

that and also my, my lifelong feminism, and working with young

Unknown:

women is a real joy. No, I've got two young, young people at

Unknown:

home 11 and 13. They also have always a big motivation here

Unknown:

about the world that they're coming into and what hasn't

Unknown:

hasn't changed for them. Yeah, compared to our generations of

Unknown:

women before.

Lee Griffith:

And how do you think that's shaped working in

Lee Griffith:

the types of organizations you've worked in? And now

Lee Griffith:

leading an organization? How do you think that's shaped you as

Lee Griffith:

the leader you show up today?

Unknown:

Well, I think there's a strong kind of composite around

Unknown:

purpose, which I think I've said before, I think as a person, and

Unknown:

as a feminist i think i i Some of my strengths of being very

Unknown:

sort of authentic and showing up as, as me I am quite sort of,

Unknown:

though ego person and not not at love the limelight. I wasn't, I

Unknown:

wasn't intending to be a chief exec, I got the job that I

Unknown:

applied, I was really shocked to get it. And I think I'm kind of

Unknown:

growing into that myself sense of self as a Chief Exec. I think

Unknown:

what I, what I really love as a leader is working with teams of

Unknown:

people and that sense of shared endeavor, and drive for change

Unknown:

and seeing the difference that you're making, which, in all my

Unknown:

jobs in different ways, you're around the change that you are

Unknown:

trying to make, whether that's providing good advice sessions,

Unknown:

to asylum seekers and refugees arriving at the Refugee Council

Unknown:

or working out in the states and seeing what young women young

Unknown:

people want, and working together to achieve it. I love

Unknown:

that and that really shapes the leader that I am or the leader

Unknown:

that I'm learning to be because such as I think a lot of your

Unknown:

further, you know, previous conversations with people on on

Unknown:

this podcast, it's very much an evolving thing, isn't it

Unknown:

learning to be a learn to be a leader

Lee Griffith:

you've never done? You are absolutely never done. I

Unknown:

feel like I am very much a learner. A learner

Unknown:

driver, you know, taking home and organization you know, as a

Unknown:

chief exec felt like coming home with a new baby where you really

Unknown:

feel like oh, wow, you know, just because I've got this

Unknown:

organization attached to me, it doesn't know I'm still the same

Unknown:

person that I was a bit like when you do you become a parent

Unknown:

and, and you learn on the job, and you need to be sort of

Unknown:

honest about that. Because that's, that's how it really is.

Unknown:

Yeah. So

Lee Griffith:

how have you found that I mean, you mentioned

Lee Griffith:

you've been there just over two years now, but You're still,

Lee Griffith:

yeah, you still classify yourself as the as the learner

Lee Griffith:

the newbie in? So how I suppose is it measured up the reality to

Lee Griffith:

what you perhaps thought it was going to be like being a Chief

Unknown:

Exec? Yes. Well, it's,

Unknown:

it is brilliant. But it's also really tough. And I think it is

Unknown:

the sort of continual learning curve. I did think somebody

Unknown:

actually a charity chief exec and lovely woman did say to me,

Unknown:

Oh, give it a couple of years, Claire, don't give it don't

Unknown:

think it's, it's six months, which I think there's that first

Unknown:

100 days, isn't it? And you're thinking, Oh, well, you know,

Unknown:

you, you make a plan, and then you implement it. And it's a

Unknown:

much longer process of learning, at least it is for me. And I

Unknown:

think a key one for me is for small charities. And if any

Unknown:

small charity chief execs are listening to this out, there

Unknown:

will just be groaning with like your recognition of it is what

Unknown:

your scale of ambition is and what you can actually achieve

Unknown:

with with quite small team, but with these big ambitions for

Unknown:

change. And that means certain things for leadership really

Unknown:

about how you continue to refine your strategy reprioritize check

Unknown:

in on the bandwidth of your organization and the people

Unknown:

within it to deliver what we're all hoping to achieve. And of

Unknown:

course, thinking about how much people come to the charity

Unknown:

sector with their full heart wholesales their hearts and

Unknown:

their minds, you know, everybody does want to achieve an awful

Unknown:

lot. So there is always that danger that you can topple over.

Unknown:

By being overly ambitious, he gets a really look at that. And

Unknown:

be really kind of agile in the sense of like, doing a program

Unknown:

work and then stopping and reviewing and seeing what did we

Unknown:

learn. And I think also for me, I'm I'm leading young women's

Unknown:

trust, to do more work on social change, because we we've done a

Unknown:

long history of supporting young women practical support. But we

Unknown:

also know that the system around them is not changing enough. And

Unknown:

we're wanting to tackle but in our case of workplace equality,

Unknown:

and my background isn't in campaigning and and social

Unknown:

change in that ways that I've made as a particular

Unknown:

uncomfortable. Is it an uncomfortable thing for me about

Unknown:

leading an organization to do the thing I know least about and

Unknown:

that requires holding a nerve and being particularly humble.

Unknown:

And leadership is about managing uncertainty, isn't it, but we,

Unknown:

we know where we want to get to, but how we get there and

Unknown:

managing, you know, bumps along the road does require quite a

Unknown:

lot of strength and an honesty. But I'm, you know, I am I like

Unknown:

more in the last couple of years. And I think I've done the

Unknown:

previous 25 is incredibly stimulating, and, and a real

Unknown:

kind of honor to do it. But it does, it does. It does really

Unknown:

take you to places that you hadn't been before. And when I

Unknown:

went on a residential recently with some young women that we

Unknown:

work with, and they're always so wise, you know, not always that

Unknown:

think beyond their years. But there's wisdom from from being

Unknown:

in your 20s and the freshness of it. You see the world and one

Unknown:

young woman hen said to me, yeah, but clay, you just

Unknown:

everyone has to do it scared. I do think you have to do it

Unknown:

scared in life, you have to know that you it is uncomfortable.

Unknown:

But that is that discomfort is newness and growth and

Unknown:

uncertainty and risk. But it is where change in impact. Yeah,

Unknown:

hackers. Yeah. And there's been times in my professional life

Unknown:

when I have been in my comfort zone I've needed to be I've had

Unknown:

small children or I've dealing with family members who are

Unknown:

unbeli, very unwell or whatever else, you you've got some times

Unknown:

in your life, you are standing still. And sometimes you're

Unknown:

running and sometimes you're lying down or all those things

Unknown:

are okay on that you got to know which one you're doing and

Unknown:

multiple yourself around the challenge.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, it's interesting, as you were

Lee Griffith:

talking, I was reflecting on the suppose it's a bit of a

Lee Griffith:

stereotype but this sense of confidence in women versus men

Lee Griffith:

in the workplace, and that men can look at job description and

Lee Griffith:

go Well, I only meet 10% of it. But yeah, I'm gonna get this job

Lee Griffith:

and a woman can look at it and meet 95% But really fixate on

Lee Griffith:

that 5% They can't and won't apply. And you saying that

Lee Griffith:

Campanian is a big part of the job and something he hadn't come

Lee Griffith:

across and it was absolutely you having to step out of your your

Lee Griffith:

comfort, say, What did you need to lean into to go? Yes, I'm

Lee Griffith:

going to tackle that and it's gonna be all right. Yes.

Unknown:

Well, I think some of it is the knowing that my values

Unknown:

lead me to campaigning. Yeah, because I don't exactly because

Unknown:

like the the some of the the work we're doing with young

Unknown:

women is offering them free professional coaching and a lot

Unknown:

of the 1000s of young women that that get coaching with us each

Unknown:

year, obviously confidence is one of the the issues that young

Unknown:

women bring. And young women and girls were taught from a very

Unknown:

early age, you know, being confident being powerful, being

Unknown:

you know, strong all those things are not You know, are not

Unknown:

things that are Gemini taught to girls we come, we come with that

Unknown:

sort of confidence. It's obviously a structural political

Unknown:

issue. And I think if as much as coaching can really help, I

Unknown:

don't want to redefine a structural problem as an

Unknown:

individual problem that just young women have to sort. So the

Unknown:

values, my values, take me to the place of encouraging young

Unknown:

women's trust and leading it to do more work on social change.

Unknown:

But of course, that does create discomfort, she say, for me, as

Unknown:

a leader, as someone who doesn't know how to do that well, and

Unknown:

having to obviously, recruit a team around me that has those

Unknown:

strengths, give them plenty of space to do what they're really

Unknown:

good at, find ways of supporting them. And I think sometimes you

Unknown:

can feel a bit, you know, inadequate, I guess, as a line

Unknown:

manager to someone who you wanting to support, you don't

Unknown:

you don't have that technical expertise to say I can help you

Unknown:

with that. But you can be alongside people. And you can

Unknown:

set the wider vision and ensure that, as I said, before, given

Unknown:

the challenges of being in a small charity, that you have a

Unknown:

kind of compassionate environment where everyone can

Unknown:

experiment, and we can learn and fail and try again, and not know

Unknown:

the answers, but still trying to have enough clarity for people

Unknown:

to know the next bit ahead. I think that's, that's what I'm

Unknown:

learning is attention. And

Lee Griffith:

where do you get your support, then in the same

Lee Griffith:

way that you're providing that vision? And that you're helping

Lee Griffith:

to encourage and build the confidence of others who perhaps

Lee Griffith:

don't don't know where they're going? Where are you seeking

Lee Griffith:

that from?

Unknown:

Well, I mean, one of the great things about being a

Unknown:

small charity to execs, I've discovered is one is other

Unknown:

women, Chief execs are so supportive to each other, it's

Unknown:

fantastic meeting them, and all of us telling each other the

Unknown:

things that we're worrying about, or horror stories or

Unknown:

successes or disasters, there's a real, real honesty and

Unknown:

camaraderie and Ally ship and people, you know, recommending

Unknown:

things to each other and making suggestions, which is really

Unknown:

super powerful and uplifting. I also have a great leadership

Unknown:

team, I think that's the thing, a lot of trust and respect to

Unknown:

their leadership team. And so it feels that we are, although, you

Unknown:

know, it's a team that's ever changing. Recruitment is tough.

Unknown:

And some, you know, we've had, you know, members of the of the

Unknown:

leadership team have been interns, while we've been

Unknown:

looking for permanent hires, it's that, that provides a lot

Unknown:

of a lot of support. And it's, so it's not as isolating as

Unknown:

simple. People say, Oh, leadership is isolated, I'm not

Unknown:

necessarily found it so but it's certainly can feel relentless at

Unknown:

times, because a bit like having a new baby, you can't put it

Unknown:

down and walk away, you know, and as I'm very, you know,

Unknown:

because it's my purpose, my passion that's led me to it and

Unknown:

my values, like, kind of actually separating and like,

Unknown:

really switching off. It's not, it's not something I've been

Unknown:

good at. And I know I need to get better at it, because that

Unknown:

is giving yourself that time off. And reflection time is

Unknown:

really key to good, Mr. Good leadership and coming back with

Unknown:

a fresh, a fresh perspective each Monday morning.

Lee Griffith:

So you've mentioned a couple of times your

Lee Griffith:

feminist principles, and I'm I'm making an assumption that the

Lee Griffith:

young women's trust is primarily female focused in terms of the

Lee Griffith:

workforce. I don't know whether it's, yeah, we

Unknown:

have got couple of very brave men working with us who

Unknown:

are great, but yeah, absolutely. We're predominantly workforce of

Unknown:

women.

Lee Griffith:

So do you think that that's had a impact or

Lee Griffith:

significance in the way that you've led here, maybe, perhaps,

Lee Griffith:

to other organizations you've worked in?

Unknown:

I certainly think it has a different organizational

Unknown:

dynamic. And I think leading an organization of women to achieve

Unknown:

something like for women, and with young women, obviously

Unknown:

means particular things. I mean, especially as I've become older,

Unknown:

as a feminist and aspire to be more intersectional. And young

Unknown:

women's Trust has a brings together a lens of age, and

Unknown:

gender with class, race, disability, you know, the need

Unknown:

to kind of pay attention to your own power and privilege where

Unknown:

you have lived experience and where you really don't. It's so

Unknown:

important. And I think, I mean, I read something, beginning of

Unknown:

my take up role here on anti racism. And that really struck

Unknown:

stayed with me and one of them really was about without traps

Unknown:

that white feminist can fall into when they're leading

Unknown:

organizations and trying to be intersectional. And one I think,

Unknown:

is that I and I'm sure I'm guilty of it sometimes is that

Unknown:

you if you're not someone who feels particularly confident and

Unknown:

you're anxious, and that might be lots of leaders and truth,

Unknown:

you can get quite preoccupied with your own internal world and

Unknown:

how you feel and not actually really acknowledge your own

Unknown:

power and how your power operates in your organization.

Unknown:

Because you don't see yourself as inside you don't feel that

Unknown:

powerful, and then you're not looking at your impact on an

Unknown:

organization. And I think the other thing that really struck

Unknown:

Call me is that informality. And I am like a naturally informal

Unknown:

leader is also eager to look out for the dangers of that because

Unknown:

you mustn't confuse informality with, it doesn't dissolve

Unknown:

hierarchies, you know, and it doesn't, you know, the way that

Unknown:

hierarchies can inhibit feedback and give you a very partial view

Unknown:

of what people are really thinking and feeling in your

Unknown:

organization, and informality can obscure that. And so yet,

Unknown:

there's something to kind of watch. And I think the other

Unknown:

thing that I'm learning is also lead with positivity and energy.

Unknown:

But if you want to be pay attention to power and be an

Unknown:

intersectional, feminist, you got to have a difficult

Unknown:

conversations about how power is operating your organization, and

Unknown:

how powerless people feel because of the discrimination

Unknown:

they've faced in your organization, you know, in your

Unknown:

organization, and how those, those those protected

Unknown:

characteristics are playing out and their experiences outside

Unknown:

the workforce, and they're painful and hard conversations.

Unknown:

And they can only happen if there's an organizational

Unknown:

culture where you can say difficult things as well as the

Unknown:

positive things. And I think I'm, you know, I'm learning

Unknown:

about that, too. You know, it's sort of like a lot of things in

Unknown:

leadership is play to your strengths. But be aware your

Unknown:

strengths, too, and what, how they might not be serving you

Unknown:

and your organization.

Lee Griffith:

And how does how does that work? In practice? I

Lee Griffith:

suppose, like, what's the is there a routine? Is it something

Lee Griffith:

that's ingrained in you that you're always checking in? Or

Lee Griffith:

are you having to be really intentional at certain points?

Lee Griffith:

So I'm fascinated how you take the theory of wanting to do that

Lee Griffith:

and into the practice? Yes?

Unknown:

Well, there's all sorts of things that I mean, like this

Unknown:

is like saying, this is an ongoing thing. I mean, there's

Unknown:

practical things around how we get feedback from each other,

Unknown:

and how we try and find out how people are beyond the usual sort

Unknown:

of staff surveys and one to ones and like staff meetings and how

Unknown:

much we use our face to face time as a hybrid organization,

Unknown:

to really find out how people are doing, how you bring in

Unknown:

expertise from outside your organization to shine a bit of a

Unknown:

light to what the dynamics are when working with a an anti

Unknown:

racist consultant last year, for example, and that, that we had

Unknown:

some very important conversations there about how

Unknown:

we've been racialized as white, not white, and that as a group

Unknown:

of, of staff to talk about, you know, office culture is made up

Unknown:

of feel feelings, isn't it, you know, is the absolute other side

Unknown:

of all your kind of your anti racist policies or your EDI

Unknown:

action plan? It's the really messy stuff of how do people

Unknown:

feel in your organization? What conversations happen in the

Unknown:

office and being aware of like how that might be around some

Unknown:

people being able to afford to talk about a holiday they're

Unknown:

going on and other people in the office not being able to afford

Unknown:

allow someone to afford to buy their first flat while someone

Unknown:

else is struggling in crappy rented housing. And so what's

Unknown:

that the classroom the kind of implications around what people

Unknown:

are bringing, as well as, yeah, that's the kind of day to day

Unknown:

practices of inclusiveness, and self awareness. So I don't think

Unknown:

I've got like all these things, there's no kind of easy answers

Unknown:

as there, but they're except continual self awareness,

Unknown:

sometimes doing things wrong course correction, you know, and

Unknown:

because we are campaigning as an organization for workplace

Unknown:

equality, see, that really, you know, sounds a spotlight on how

Unknown:

we ourselves are doing things like pay equity, salary,

Unknown:

transparency, ensuring progression for young women of

Unknown:

organization. So we have a continual, you know, continued

Unknown:

work to do to live our values in that way. Because these things

Unknown:

are all the harder to bring about.

Lee Griffith:

I mean, I'll admit, I don't know much about

Lee Griffith:

feminist organizations or running boards as feminist

Lee Griffith:

boards. And I've, I suppose, encountered it a bit more often

Lee Griffith:

over the last couple of years of people that have been working in

Lee Griffith:

that way. And I was reading a book recently, and they were

Lee Griffith:

talking about running as a feminist organization, but then

Lee Griffith:

realizing that actually they were, they become really static

Lee Griffith:

because they couldn't make a decision on stuff because they

Lee Griffith:

were trying to do it to the nth degree of what it means to be a

Lee Griffith:

really flat organization. And that really struck me that they

Lee Griffith:

then had to lean into some of those hierarchies and the way

Lee Griffith:

that they made decisions and held people to account and some

Lee Griffith:

of the more traditional methods they did need to reintroduce.

Lee Griffith:

I'm interested what challenges you might have around some of

Lee Griffith:

that in your organization.

Unknown:

Yeah, well, I mean, we are in some ways, quite

Unknown:

traditional, you know, we have a senior leadership team and we I

Unknown:

wouldn't say that we are being you know, radically, you know,

Unknown:

radically if that's what radical feminist leadership is. I don't

Unknown:

think we're achieving that. But I do think that We are trying

Unknown:

our best to live our values about equality in the workplace.

Unknown:

And I think that that does there are still things around that,

Unknown:

like you say around how decisions are made and needing

Unknown:

to be clear what is up for, not for consultation, what is where

Unknown:

the decision making power lies and not misleading anyone that

Unknown:

there are some decisions that you have to take that will be

Unknown:

unpopular, or uncomfortable, difficult, and that we have a

Unknown:

leadership team taking those decisions. But we know that we

Unknown:

want to, you know, that that this is a this is a team sport,

Unknown:

isn't it actually achieving your strategy. And in our case,

Unknown:

bringing about fundamental changes for young women. When

Unknown:

we're a team of 2627. You know, we've got applause, like as big

Unknown:

as that we, we will only make any progress towards that if

Unknown:

everyone in the organization feels it's a true stake, yeah,

Unknown:

stake in the organization, and that they can have their voice

Unknown:

heard. And I know we've got, we have got more to do on that. And

Unknown:

I think there are some more radical models out there I've

Unknown:

reading like you have been reading things about some think

Unknown:

tanks that have done gone down that route. And there's a real

Unknown:

joys and sorrows along the way isn't there. But I think there

Unknown:

is a need to keep trying to reinvent organizational

Unknown:

cultures, because it's so easy to fall into default ways of

Unknown:

working. And, for example, is a practical example of that me for

Unknown:

years, I've been recruiting staff, and not sending questions

Unknown:

in advance setting, you know, asking people to come do

Unknown:

presentations and tests and all these things. And now we get a

Unknown:

we have, obviously, like many other organizations, so why are

Unknown:

you doing that? You know, interviews isn't about catching

Unknown:

people out, send your questions in advance, be really

Unknown:

transparent. Is it right to do tests? I mean, I have a

Unknown:

neurodivergent daughter, that's an absolute nightmare for her.

Unknown:

And you think what, what are you actually doing in your basic

Unknown:

practices like that which are, are potentially very exclusive,

Unknown:

exclusionary, and there was a default model there, but it's

Unknown:

followed for a long time, and doesn't need to be doesn't need

Unknown:

to be that way. So trying to stay alert to two ways in which

Unknown:

you might be part of the problem.

Lee Griffith:

It's a bit of an aside, but I'm also minded of

Lee Griffith:

whenever there are movements, whatever they are, you will have

Lee Griffith:

a contingent of people that do that. What about as a response?

Lee Griffith:

How do you tackle that as an organization?

Unknown:

Well, I think, you know, we are really driving

Unknown:

forward with the evidence what young women are saying about

Unknown:

their own experiences, and, and the evidence that we have

Unknown:

brilliant team peer researchers, who are bringing the experiences

Unknown:

of young women into the organization. And we're

Unknown:

publishing their research and doing our surveys, which just

Unknown:

showing I think the kind of evidence speaks for itself about

Unknown:

what is really happening for young women. And that doesn't

Unknown:

mean that there's not lots of other challenges for other

Unknown:

groups or, but I think it's legitimate to, to really say,

Unknown:

Look, this is a challenge. This is young women who are not being

Unknown:

able to achieve what they are able to achieve in the workplace

Unknown:

that are living in poverty as a million young women in this

Unknown:

country living in low pay or no pay. They're having their lives

Unknown:

circumscribed and limited in and it's not actually good for

Unknown:

anybody. It's, it's terrible for your women. But it's also not

Unknown:

good for men, it often traps men in breadwinning roles, and it's

Unknown:

dangerous, bad for the economy. And these are this kind of

Unknown:

equality issues are actually not just they're not minority,

Unknown:

they're not minority, she's actually things that would drive

Unknown:

fundamental social change that benefits us all. So I think it's

Unknown:

an also, of course, it's talking to, to to men and young men,

Unknown:

about the ways in which the perceptions of what it is that

Unknown:

expectations on them is also damaging them. And good in my

Unknown:

you know, good intersectional feminism brings all of that

Unknown:

together and sees how we're all actually diminished, really, by

Unknown:

our inability to really get the other side of some of these core

Unknown:

core issues. And and the good news, I think is that change is

Unknown:

possible. Or whether you're looking at a race, disability,

Unknown:

class, gender, you know, that different countries are making

Unknown:

more progress on some of these things, something some some you

Unknown:

see, in our case, you see some companies that are really

Unknown:

tackling inequality in their workplace leaders, who are being

Unknown:

really imaginative. Um, so that we know change is possible,

Unknown:

which is the thing that gets me out of bed in the morning

Unknown:

because it doesn't need to be this way. And that the other

Unknown:

side of the change is such an opportunity for for everybody.

Lee Griffith:

So you mentioned that you always three hats of

Lee Griffith:

the organization. You've got the practical help the research,

Lee Griffith:

you've got the campaigning. I know you do a lot of fundraising

Lee Griffith:

as well as an organization I'm interested how you manage,

Lee Griffith:

personally to juggle all those hats and keep on top of the

Lee Griffith:

different agendas that you've got to keep on top of.

Unknown:

Yeah, well, of course that goes right back to the

Unknown:

things we were saying about. One of the key challenges is about

Unknown:

your ambition and how much you can do at once. And we just keep

Unknown:

on learning that we do. You know, I think isn't everyone in

Unknown:

the organization is very committed to keeping on

Unknown:

supporting young women in the day to day carrying on our

Unknown:

research, because that does provide the evidence not to, you

Unknown:

know, and helps on that. What about every staff? And like, why

Unknown:

isn't everyone isn't this difficult for everyone? And the

Unknown:

campaigning for change that we know will mean that we're not in

Unknown:

another 150 is in the same position that we're in now. But

Unknown:

it does require regular course, corrections and challenge of

Unknown:

each other? And what are we saying no to? And what we're

Unknown:

saying is still, what are we saying we have to do later? And

Unknown:

what have we got to put back? Because there's such a danger of

Unknown:

spreading yourself very, very thinly, and you know, wide and

Unknown:

thin is not going to make the difference. versa. But that's an

Unknown:

everyday everyday core challenge, I would say. And that

Unknown:

it is in a compared to bigger organizations, perhaps it

Unknown:

doesn't quite bite quite so hard. But it is. It is the thing

Unknown:

that's keep trying to be nimble, and say to people, this is what

Unknown:

we said we would do at the beginning of the year. But

Unknown:

actually, that's not realistic. Or in the case of like, what's

Unknown:

happening right now the general election has been called. And

Unknown:

that is our burning platform. So other plans need to go to one

Unknown:

side and think leadership is a very different thing, isn't it

Unknown:

than perhaps was in the well, maybe it was always like this,

Unknown:

you obviously have to be very responsive to x circumstances.

Unknown:

But we are living in a world where change is happening

Unknown:

exponentially. And you've got to be being responsive and being

Unknown:

able to pivot on your strategy is absolutely a core skill,

Unknown:

isn't it?

Lee Griffith:

One of the things I've noticed about your

Lee Griffith:

organization, which I really like is that sense of

Lee Griffith:

collaboration and collegiality, I suppose with other

Lee Griffith:

organizations that have similar values of fighting a similar

Lee Griffith:

fight, and not to down talk larger or larger charities or

Lee Griffith:

larger organizations. But sometimes they can be very, it's

Lee Griffith:

about us, and we're in this playground, and it doesn't feel

Lee Griffith:

like that with your charity and the stuff that you do and how

Lee Griffith:

you're promoting it. And I wonder how that's happened. Has

Lee Griffith:

that been intentional? Or is it just been a kind of natural

Lee Griffith:

evolution?

Unknown:

I'm glad you see that I'm not certainly think that we

Unknown:

think that identifying partnerships, you know, are

Unknown:

still a big priority for us to do more of because of course, in

Unknown:

small organizations on their own, can only do so much. And

Unknown:

there's an ecosystem in the voluntary sector, where we do

Unknown:

really need to come together with this strong voice, whether

Unknown:

you're small charity or large charity, and going into the

Unknown:

general election, we're part of a fantastic coalition of women's

Unknown:

organizations that are working under the hashtag she votes

Unknown:

2024, to give us a quick plug, and there is an awful lot of

Unknown:

common values there in Asti, if we're going to influence future

Unknown:

government, and we're going to influence in our case,

Unknown:

employers, you know, we have to join up with organizations that

Unknown:

share some of our agenda, because we obviously, we kind of

Unknown:

crossover charities that work in the poverty area in like

Unknown:

employment use feminism, we're taking all those different

Unknown:

sectors, and therefore partnering with others is so

Unknown:

important, otherwise, we will duplicate. And I think that, you

Unknown:

know, if there's too much duplication, it's not only is

Unknown:

obviously that inefficient, not good use of people's resources,

Unknown:

but I think it was so in the minds of the public, in the end

Unknown:

diminishes charities, credibility, because always

Unknown:

there's so many of you doing the same thing. So I think it's,

Unknown:

it's very, very important to get that right. And we keep needing

Unknown:

to, I think put energy into choosing is going out in

Unknown:

partnership effectively with others.

Lee Griffith:

And you've we've touched on the fact that we're

Lee Griffith:

in the midst of campaigning around the election, and I'm

Lee Griffith:

interested on a you've said that you've had to parks and things

Lee Griffith:

so you can focus around that. But the role of being a leader

Lee Griffith:

in a charity during that election period. Are you a

Lee Griffith:

partisan organization? Or do you have to try and have some

Lee Griffith:

balance in the way? Like, I'm just absolutely,

Unknown:

we're as a charity, you absolutely have to be

Unknown:

politically nonpartisan, and that is an expectation for all

Unknown:

charities and the Charity Commission holds us to account

Unknown:

for that. So it is super important that we focus on the

Unknown:

management manifesto that young women have drawn up for an equal

Unknown:

world of work. can quick plugs on our website, we'd love people

Unknown:

to sign up to it and support it. But we are really wanting to one

Unknown:

mobilize young women to vote for any party, but to step into

Unknown:

their power to feel confident their voice matters. And we're

Unknown:

working with young women to make sure they know how to vote and

Unknown:

all issues about voter ID and so on. And also then to question

Unknown:

parties, question perspective MPs and candidates about their,

Unknown:

their perspective on the issues that matter to women on my

Unknown:

manifesto. So and then when, you know, as it's happened this

Unknown:

week, parties are releasing their manifestos, then young

Unknown:

women who are campaigning with us will be able to say, Well,

Unknown:

it's great to see this on from that party, but we're looking at

Unknown:

for it for others, but it is really important that we are

Unknown:

nonpartisan, and that the the young woman and the public can

Unknown:

trust that we are we are here to deliver our kind of purposes and

Unknown:

organization, which isn't a party political purpose. But

Unknown:

nevertheless, it's a deeply political purpose, isn't it?

Unknown:

Because it is about changing policies in Westminster, and

Unknown:

it's also about changing workplace policies. But not It's

Unknown:

not party political in that way.

Lee Griffith:

And how are you having to adapt to the need to

Lee Griffith:

be heard at this time, at a point when there are so many

Lee Griffith:

other people also wanting to be heard on their on their kind of

Lee Griffith:

area?

Unknown:

Yeah, well, it's it's a crowded space and a busy time

Unknown:

for everybody, isn't it? I mean, you, you know, we, for us, you

Unknown:

know, building our digital skills and reaching you young

Unknown:

women on Instagram, and Tiktok, which is where we are young

Unknown:

women are designing our sort of social posts and things of

Unknown:

posting messages there to other young women and getting their

Unknown:

engagement and getting feedback on, on what's landing with young

Unknown:

women and what's making them feel like they more encouraged

Unknown:

to vote. I mean, one of the things that young women have

Unknown:

been sharing with us is that, obviously, some young women,

Unknown:

like many young people are a bit disillusioned from politics. I

Unknown:

feel it's not from them. But there's also for some of the

Unknown:

young woman campaigners, that sort of sense of, oh, we don't

Unknown:

really understand politics, you know, are we? Do we know enough?

Unknown:

A little bit of embarrassment about a sense that it's sort of

Unknown:

something very complicated, that's not that they can't

Unknown:

access? So that is something I think, really practical that we

Unknown:

can offer, we're doing some campaign calls with young women

Unknown:

to come and chat to other young women about what does it mean to

Unknown:

vote? And what is on their mind? And what are their questions?

Unknown:

With, there's like, no silly questions, so that, you know,

Unknown:

that sense of politics is for us, it is about us it is what

Unknown:

will change our lives in this country, if we get it right, and

Unknown:

make that expand the idea of who can be who can be in that space.

Unknown:

And how it's so exciting. Yeah. How do

Lee Griffith:

you detach, I suppose your personal politics

Lee Griffith:

and thoughts perhaps on different things that are coming

Lee Griffith:

out with the aims that you're trying to achieve in the day to

Lee Griffith:

day job? Because it's hard. I know, from my public sector,

Lee Griffith:

sir. Background, there's things that I really wanted to say and

Lee Griffith:

couldn't say.

Unknown:

Yes. Well, it's, I mean, it's a disciplined is a

Unknown:

discipline process that isn't it. But at the end of the day,

Unknown:

you know, the when we've got the manifestation, young woman with

Unknown:

the with the asks, and you see those asks, in people's

Unknown:

manifestos, or you don't and, and then there's that chance to,

Unknown:

to, to question people. So this is what we want to see, of

Unknown:

course, that at the moment, there are some parties are

Unknown:

offering pets more to young women than others. But really,

Unknown:

it's in post election, it will be then looking at the

Unknown:

implementation of those things. And obviously, like, how much of

Unknown:

that can really be achieved? And how does it really loud with

Unknown:

young women or we all know, in the same way that I know that

Unknown:

implementing a strategy is very different from drawing one up,

Unknown:

you know, writing your manifesto is a very different from being

Unknown:

in power with very limited resource, and the political

Unknown:

pressures that you face. So it will be really important for us

Unknown:

to offer that perspective to politicians around let's say,

Unknown:

for example, zero hours contracts, you know, that, that

Unknown:

some people might say they they need to be banned, you know,

Unknown:

and, and, of course, when they're exploitative, and

Unknown:

they're not chosen by a worker, then they're not right. But some

Unknown:

young women are saying in some circumstances that gives them

Unknown:

choice and flexibility. But it does need to be their choice,

Unknown:

not not one based on on the power dynamic or an exploitative

Unknown:

employer. So there's so kind of detail about what the the

Unknown:

policies really look like that would change the lives of young

Unknown:

women and make things better, not worse. And the unintended

Unknown:

consequences of policymaking. So I think that will be very

Unknown:

important for us post, post election and key part our work

Unknown:

with employers and spreading good practice and the young

Unknown:

women that we are really most working with or are those in low

Unknown:

paying retail care, hospitality, where they often forgotten and

Unknown:

where margins often very tight unemployment practices can be

Unknown:

often a bit looser. And, you know, Westminster can, in some

Unknown:

senses legislate for all they like, but with very little money

Unknown:

and enforcement, it still is the case that we need to be carrying

Unknown:

on researching what's really going on in workplaces, you

Unknown:

know, many young women tell us they're still not getting the

Unknown:

minimum wage they're entitled to, they're still not getting

Unknown:

the same pay for equal work as young young men. And we're still

Unknown:

finding that astonishing facts that like 15% of the the

Unknown:

managers that we surveyed said they didn't think that women

Unknown:

were suitable for senior management positions like

Unknown:

blatant discriminatory views that you think, you know, makes

Unknown:

you think you in the 1950s are still really out there. And we

Unknown:

want to continue to expose those to show in a while some things

Unknown:

are changing, there is this huge amount more to be done on race,

Unknown:

as well as age and gender and class together. And that

Unknown:

there's, there's a lot of rightful energy about how to get

Unknown:

women through that glass ceiling and C suite. But we're really

Unknown:

talking about the sticky floor that young women are trying to

Unknown:

detach themselves from where they are in like really dead end

Unknown:

jobs and, and make sure that they are a political priority,

Unknown:

but also a priority for employers. And you've you've

Unknown:

perfectly

Lee Griffith:

segwayed into what I was going to ask next

Lee Griffith:

socially, which was the sense of particularly in larger

Lee Griffith:

organizations, there is that hierarchy and so those at the

Lee Griffith:

top arc have focused on as you say, maybe breaking people

Lee Griffith:

through the glass ceiling at the top. And they leave it to those

Lee Griffith:

further down in the organization to manage what happens on on the

Lee Griffith:

shop floor or what, however they see it. What is your message, I

Lee Griffith:

suppose to people who perhaps listening to this interview, at

Lee Griffith:

that C suite level or at the higher ends of an organization?

Lee Griffith:

What Why do they need to start paying attention to this? What

Lee Griffith:

What can they be doing when they go back into the office?

Unknown:

Well, I think I mean, really good businesses know that

Unknown:

this is just business sense, isn't it? Your your pipeline I

Unknown:

call your webinar pipeline are made, but you know, that sense

Unknown:

of where's your new talent going to come from? And that, you

Unknown:

know, savvy businesses are sorting out their early career

Unknown:

offer and really getting thinking about how to, to bring

Unknown:

young women up from that sort of broken rung on the bottom of the

Unknown:

ladder so that they have got a day, there's a really big report

Unknown:

last year about, you know, women in the workplace. And the real

Unknown:

issue is around that, that middle area of your Where's,

Unknown:

where's the where are women going when they're trying to get

Unknown:

into first second line management, and particularly the

Unknown:

focus on first line managers as either champions or gatekeepers

Unknown:

in young women's worlds. So attention, online management,

Unknown:

there was a there was a big report out from CMI that said

Unknown:

that 80% of line managers in this country are accidental line

Unknown:

managers, they've had no training to be a manager and it

Unknown:

might not be seen managed not be seen as a thing. But of course,

Unknown:

it is a big in its thing that makes companies great. For small

Unknown:

businesses, these sort of elaborate training is obviously

Unknown:

really hard and the majority of people in this country working

Unknown:

for small employers. So it's it is about the art of the possible

Unknown:

and what you can do on things like that helped gender

Unknown:

equality, putting salaries on your adverts offering

Unknown:

flexibility on your advert makes good business sense. It will

Unknown:

attract more candidates, to you not asking salary history

Unknown:

questions so that women don't put their lower salary from

Unknown:

previous jobs to the new job. Looking at how do your first

Unknown:

line managers really have conversations with with young

Unknown:

women and all employees about their aspirations and their

Unknown:

talent and help them move up through the organization? And

Unknown:

obviously, things like how you practice your flexible working

Unknown:

in reality, how you welcome women and carers back into the

Unknown:

workforce after parental leave, so you don't lose people. And we

Unknown:

see that, but we support young women in the age of 18 to 30,

Unknown:

that there's a big squeeze in their mid 20s. Many of young

Unknown:

women come to us at that stage, feeling like they've got stuck.

Unknown:

And that is often you know, we know that, you know, young women

Unknown:

are doing better than young men and get more like to get degrees

Unknown:

at university than what they're doing better at school. They are

Unknown:

coming out of those systems with a sense of like academic

Unknown:

success, but that is simply not been translated into increased

Unknown:

incomes by the age of 30. That that income gap is still very

Unknown:

well established. Regardless of whether you've had a degree or

Unknown:

not or how well you've done in school. It's not translating

Unknown:

integrated Success for young women in the workplace in terms

Unknown:

of pay and progression. And, and the companies that are doing

Unknown:

this, well are gaining the benefits of that talent. So is

Unknown:

this there's some low hanging fruit some of this is tough to

Unknown:

do. And some of it is things that you can start straight

Unknown:

away. And you can learn from others. And we are, you know,

Unknown:

we're really keen to keep momentum up on this. And I think

Unknown:

I'll stop there.

Lee Griffith:

You can carry on if there was?

Unknown:

No, that's enough.

Lee Griffith:

So my final question about that, we'll do

Lee Griffith:

want to get into a little bit around what you do and how

Lee Griffith:

people can get involved. We'll come to that in a moment. But my

Lee Griffith:

final question is around the one piece of advice that you would

Lee Griffith:

give to aspiring, let's say women leaders, aspiring women

Lee Griffith:

leaders, young women who might listen to this and go, How do I

Lee Griffith:

get into your shoes?

Unknown:

What's your advice? Or I find that hard to give

Unknown:

one piece of advice, because everybody's journey is so

Unknown:

different, isn't it? And what's maybe holding people back may be

Unknown:

different. But I certainly think like I have a coach and she says

Unknown:

this sort of very well known phrase, isn't it really about

Unknown:

courage being a muscle that grows, the more you use it? And

Unknown:

I think that's really true. Having courage and doing things

Unknown:

scared, being as kind to yourself, whilst you're scared

Unknown:

as possible? Yes, I don't I mean, of course, what I would

Unknown:

like to say is things like you know, have faith in yourself and

Unknown:

have confidence, all those sorts of things that actually, you

Unknown:

know, you people can tell you that until you're blue in the

Unknown:

face, it's really hard to make that feel real truth that you

Unknown:

can take into yourself, which is why I think you have to go

Unknown:

forward with the uncertainty. Just like I don't want to make

Unknown:

too many analogies between leadership and parenting, they

Unknown:

are not the same things. But like, you know, if you wait

Unknown:

until you feel ready to become a parent, you're never ready, are

Unknown:

you? And I don't think I certainly will never feel ready

Unknown:

to be a Chief Exec. I will just sort of live in the state of

Unknown:

unreadiness and do the best I can in that context. And so I

Unknown:

think it definitely gives you that insight, but I think he can

Unknown:

project onto other leaders that they have certainty and

Unknown:

confidence. And they're different from you. But of

Unknown:

course, behind the scenes, and that's what's lovely about the

Unknown:

honest conversations I have with other charity, Chief execs,

Unknown:

everyone's feeling those same uncertainties. And that same

Unknown:

sense of are they were, are they worthy? And can they do it, and

Unknown:

you can use that potentially as a superpower to drive forward

Unknown:

your your leadership. So everybody has a, if I can do it,

Unknown:

I think everyone's got a chief exec can sort of see if that is

Unknown:

what they want. But, you know, there's also different joys of

Unknown:

being in different parts of an organization is that I've

Unknown:

actually really enjoyed my time, you know, working more and I'm

Unknown:

not sure I like the word frontline roles, because it

Unknown:

always makes it sound like you're in the army or in a you

Unknown:

know, but in those kinds of very practical roles. So it's about

Unknown:

it's a hands on role. Yes, deciding what you want at

Unknown:

different points in your life, isn't it but I'm certainly don't

Unknown:

want to underestimate the privilege of having this

Unknown:

opportunity to, to lead in this way. And learn

Lee Griffith:

there is there's something you said there about

Lee Griffith:

the confidence and I always say that actually those that are

Lee Griffith:

really confident bring complacency into the stuff that

Lee Griffith:

they do and then that actually that that's it's you say any to

Lee Griffith:

anything this has power or strength of yours can be

Lee Griffith:

overplayed and becomes a weakness. And I think that's the

Lee Griffith:

real danger. So lean into the fact that you don't I don't know

Lee Griffith:

why I keep saying lean in today. That's

Unknown:

when I think it's I mean, it is true. You got to

Unknown:

Yeah, I like the idea of leaning into anxiety and lack of

Unknown:

confidence rather than leaning into like a kind of Sheryl

Unknown:

Sandberg leaning but if you do you think that will be something

Unknown:

I can take away from this conversation or not, no won't be

Unknown:

complacent. So I've got that benefit from the signs when you

Unknown:

like to sit or the self doubt. And I think the other thing is

Unknown:

just important to reflect as leaders how to make it fun,

Unknown:

isn't it? Because this is a big part of your life? And how do

Unknown:

you make a workplace fun, bring a bit of levity and not take

Unknown:

yourself too seriously. Obviously, you know, I'm quite

Unknown:

a, an earnest person, but you know, you're supposed to say no,

Unknown:

you're not gonna, you're gonna say to save the world in like,

Unknown:

one 124 hour period, you know, and you've got to step away and

Unknown:

have a bit of fun and get, you know, get out of your own way.

Lee Griffith:

Yes, finally, I know firsthand the great work

Lee Griffith:

you do because I'm very privileged to be one of your

Lee Griffith:

volunteers and I work on your look at young women CVS, and

Lee Griffith:

I've I love seeing the breadth of experience and variety of

Lee Griffith:

stuff that people do. But I know you're always looking for more

Lee Griffith:

people to get involved in all shapes and guises. So people

Lee Griffith:

listening to this, how can they help you and the young women's

Lee Griffith:

trust?

Unknown:

Oh, thank you. Well, it's brilliant that you're one

Unknown:

of our volunteers. And I mean, there's a couple of 100

Unknown:

volunteers that we're working with to provide advice and

Unknown:

guidance to women on their CVs and job applications. So for

Unknown:

someone who's had hiring experience, and you think you

Unknown:

could give us an hour or so, a month, we would love to hear

Unknown:

from you. Of course, if you're listening to this as a young

Unknown:

woman, just get in touch. If you'd like free professional

Unknown:

coaching or help with your CVs, you want to join our online

Unknown:

community, you want to campaign with us. And if you're an ally,

Unknown:

you know, we really would love people to sign up to young

Unknown:

women's manifesto for an equal world of work and campaign.

Unknown:

Spread the word I'm also a charity chief exec that's always

Unknown:

going to say yes to any fundraising support donations. I

Unknown:

do check us out where young women's trust.org

Lee Griffith:

brilliant and people can find you on LinkedIn

Lee Griffith:

as well. Can't they

Unknown:

just absolutely, yeah, yeah. I'm clairvoyant up on

Unknown:

LinkedIn. I

Lee Griffith:

will make sure we add all the links and everything

Lee Griffith:

on the show notes so that people can get in touch and support

Lee Griffith:

you. Well, thank you so much for your time. I'd love to have in

Lee Griffith:

this chat and hoped speaking and saying,

Unknown:

thanks so much. That was lovely conversation.

Lee Griffith:

If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review

Lee Griffith:

on Apple podcasts. And let me know what you thought on

Lee Griffith:

LinkedIn. You can find me at Lee Griffith. I'll be back with the

Lee Griffith:

next episode in two weeks time. So in the meantime, sign up to

Lee Griffith:

my newsletter at Sundayskies.com for monthly insights on how else

Lee Griffith:

you can lead with impact. Until next time!

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