My guest today is Courtney Boles and we’re talking about following the rules, asking for what you want, and perceptions that may or may not be true. She also shares a couple of great exercises you can do if you ever find yourself alone and sobbing in your apartment on Christmas.

Courtney and I met through the Success Champions Networking group and connected over our mutual love for the Florida Gators. I didn’t hear her whole story before we had the conversation for this episode, but I knew she had experience moving from fine to fantastic and that others could benefit from hearing it. Courtney was raised in the Baptist church and taught to be a “good girl.” She inferred that JOY meant Jesus, Others, You, in that order – which led her to always put herself last. After 15 years of marriage to a “fine” young man, she finally allowed herself to tell the truth about what was going on in her relationship. With the help of her therapist, Rita, who she calls the patron Saint of broken and abused women – Courtney decided to take responsibility for her own choices. She shares what she discovered about her family and herself since then. And how she used one of the lowest points in her life as inspiration to learn and go bigger – like the bad ass she really is.

Find out more about Courtney:

Check out the Facebook group Making Friends at https://www.facebook.com/groups/460612554960924

Want to chat 1:1 about friendship, adventure, insurance or anything else? Let’s do a virtual coffee! https://meetings.hubspot.com/cboles

Come join us in the Fine is a 4-Letter Word Facebook group.

This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. When you’re asking yourself “what’s next for me? Who am I now, in this next season of life? And where do I even start figuring out my purpose?” the F*ck Being Fine Experience is here for you. Go to https://zenrabbit.com/ to learn more or to schedule a complimentary call.

Hello, and welcome to fine is a four-letter word.

My guest today is Courtney Boles and I'm so excited to hear Courtney's story

because when we did our pre-interview chat,

I actually did not hear Courtney's story.

She said she was going to save it for us to chat about here.

So welcome Courtney.

Hi, thank you for having me.

Yeah, my pleasure.

So I like to start out by asking what the beliefs were that were

instilled in you as a child that led, that may have led,

to some of the decisions that you made as an adult.

So tell me about what was childhood like and what beliefs were

overtly or maybe, um, you know,

just the things that you picked up as you were growing up.

Sure. Um,

I was raised in the South and mama was a Sunday school teacher and daddy was a

deacon at a Southern Baptist church. And so I learned to be a good little girl.

Um, I was, you know, a straight a student.

I got the award and kindergarten that my mom still brags about for always doing

what she knows is right. But somewhere along the way,

it veered off into a bad direction. The church sort of lost its way,

unfortunately, and became very legalistic. And that combined with my mind,

which tends to work in an all or nothing direction,

put me on a track of thinking.

I had to earn things and that if I just work harder, everything would be okay.

The work harder trap.

For example, over my bed. And like when I was eight years old,

there was a sign that said, joy. Jesus, others, you.

And I,

as a wide-eyed eight year old in my frilly Sunday school dress took that to be a

list of importance.

Mmm hmm, that's what I just thought of when you said it.

Because it was stacked in that order,

which meant that everybody else comes first all the time.

You are dead last and what you want doesn't matter, you know,

and that's not the point of the sign.

The point of the sign was probably to love all of those people on that list and

you would have joy, but that's not how I got it.

Well, it's interesting that that's what, when you just described it,

that's what I thought too. Yeah.

I mean, it was a list.

Right, right. And so how did that play out?

Well,

that played out in me trying to follow the path that was laid in front of me and

be as good as I possibly could be.

But it was a struggle because apparently,

or at least from what they would say in public,

my friends were just naturally good. And I was like,

but I want to touch that boy.

Right? Yeah. I'm human.

Right. So that became a challenge. And then when I didn't,

I didn't have the same experiences they did.

And so then I really started to feel like I'm an outsider.

And when you're faced with that,

there's either two choices for you to think either God isn't real.

And the whole thing doesn't work. Like I think it does,

or something's wrong with me. I don't have a relationship with God.

Like everybody else talks about,

or I don't want to do the right things because something's wrong with me.

Okay. So wait,

your friends didn't want to touch boys or did they,

did you have this perception that they were better or different and they really

weren't like that? Or were they really like that?

You know what Lori, to this day, some of them, I'm not sure. They, like,

we never got to the point of circling back around as 40 something year olds and

saying, Hey, and some of them I really think were like, no,

I'm I wanted to do the right things. They were that earnest and awesome.

Okay. All right. I would ask because some of the other interviews I've done,

I did an interview with one of my college friends and we talked about how we

thought and felt back then and that how our perceptions of ourselves were

so different than the perceptions of the other people that we were hanging out

with. So I was just curious if that was your experience too.

I suspect that I idealized them and that the struggles they had were probably

minimized.

Yeah. we tend to do that. Especially as young adults.

Minimize and then amplify our own defects or

perceived defects. Yeah.

So then you went to university of Florida, go Gators.

Exactly. And I got an education, but.

I'm sure you did. I've heard.

I never got a degree, But I got an education.

Sometimes that is far more important a lot of times.

Indeed. Yeah. So yeah,

I went to Florida and I discovered that people could be good and not

legalistically Christian and that kind of rocked my world.

And so really I went through a big rebellious phase, broke away, um,

stopped doing all of it. And then I plummeted into a major depression.

My parents came and got me. I went, moved back home, went up to the local,

Walmart, met a boy I'd known before and ended up marrying him.

Wow. okay. So I, yeah, cause I did not hear this part of the story. This is,

this is where it gets good.

Yeah.

So probably when I was in one of the worst mental States I've ever been was when

I met and started dating him and it was sort of like, he's fine.

This is fine. He's not crazy. He's got a stable family. Like,

is he everything I ever wanted in a man? No, but he's fine.

And had you even decided what it really was that you did want in a man? I mean,

at that age, we don't really know.

No. Cause I knew it.

I had had it laid out in front of me the entire time I was a child.

You want this Christian man, who's gonna blah, blah, blah. And then I was like,

well, I don't know that I want that.

And then I was at that phase where you don't know what you want. So you're like,

well this, I don't know what I want, but that looks okay.

Yeah. That's what's here. I'll take it.

Right. Narrator voice. It did not turn out. Okay.

Awesome. All right. Well, so how long were you married to this fine person?

15 Years.

It took me a really long time to realize everything was not fine.

So yeah, that's what I was going to ask you next is,

was everything fine for a while? And then all of a sudden it wasn't,

it was never fine. You just finally woke up. Correct. How did that happen?

Um,

basically I started talking to people and I finally started being honest

about my life. Um, because during that 15 years, every once in a while,

I'd see a therapist and they'd ask about my husband and I would gloss over

because in the back of my mind, I knew if you get into this,

they're going to say there's major problems there. Like

but I was like, I don't want to deal with it.

And I don't want anybody to know because I'm not getting divorced.

Like I was dead set on marriage is for life. Divorce is not an option,

but it turns out one of the best ways to realize you're not fine is to be honest

about who you are and what your life is like and watch people go yeah.

In the face. Okay. So if, if you're not watching the video part of this,

that's a, wide-eyed like, Oh my gosh, this is not okay.

Or if people class their hand to their mouth immediately,

when you start telling your story and gasp, those are key signs that, Oh,

not everybody else is living like this.

And that's not how marriage and love is supposed to be at all.

And then I started,

I actually went to a therapist and I finally broke down because she told me I

don't need to, like you.

Stop trying to be likable to me and impressive.

Just tell me what's going on. And so, and she really, really helped me see.

And one of the biggest moments was we were talking about my marriage and

everything. And I was saying, you know, I ask and he doesn't do anything.

And I've tried to say, I need help. And I'm on the verge of a breakdown. And,

and she said, so you have a good job. Right. And I said, yep. And she said,

when you asked for something at work,

like if you need a new piece of software or something, do they give it to you?

And I was like, yeah, generally I get what I asked for. She said,

why do you think that is? I was like, well, I'm a valued employee. Oh

wow. Because they value me and he does not.

And that caused a whole chain reaction in my thinking of,

I don't even really have a marriage because like I'm not killing a marriage

because we're not married in the sense that that's how marriage is supposed to

work. You're supposed to love and honor each other. Those are the,

do you Courtney promise to love and honor.

There was no honor from him. So I was like, well, this is not okay.

Not only is it not fine. It's absolutely not acceptable. And I walked away.

How long after that realization, did it take you to walk away?

Probably another year? Um, in part, because again,

she was a fantastic therapist, uh, Rita,

the patron Saint of broken and abused women.

There's a title.

Right. Partially because she said, okay,

I don't want you to have any regrets and get to the point that you think, well,

maybe if I had said more clearly what I needed. So she said,

we're going to make a list of everything you want out of life and give it to him

and see if he'll honor any of it.

And because I am who I am back to the good girl, straight a student,

I ended up with like a five-page with headers and

bullet point categories.

Different colors? Were there colors?

There were no colors, but it was definitely formatted and everything.

And so I gave him the list and I got a hallmark card

and a Starbucks in three months. And I was like that, wasn't on my list.

Yeah. That wasn't on my list. Right.

Which helped me to see, he's only willing to give what he wants to give.

It has nothing to do with what I need and what I'm asking for. It's whatever.

He feels like parceling out in the name of love, which is again,

not how love works.

Right. Oh.

And I would also question whether that was what he wanted or that was just,

that was all he was capable of.

I agree. Looking back on the situation, I'm like,

I don't know if it's that he wouldn't love me or that he could, not.

That he was stunted in his own situation. .

Right. Either way. It doesn't really matter so much.

The fact of the matter is that you weren't getting what you needed out of that

relationship. Right?

Yeah. So yeah,

it took me about a year to go through the whole process and be finally ready to

say, okay, this is not working.

And I've given him every opportunity to meet me where I need to be.

And if I had seen even the smallest sign that he could have,

I would have stayed. I wanted it to work. But it did not.

Yeah. I think everybody who makes that kind of decision doesn't do it lightly.

I certainly didn't. It was it's yeah.

You just keep wanting to make it work to make sure that you're not

making a mistake.

Right. And there was a element of fear because I thought, okay,

I'm horribly unhappy. I finally embraced. I'm horribly unhappy. It is not fine.

But then I thought, what if I leave him?

And it turns out the reason I'm unhappy is me. Wow.

It was easy to blame things on, well,

I don't have friends because he's anti-social,

I don't exercise because he doesn't want to.

So then I realized I don't have children. And so it was like,

I am going to be a hundred percent responsible for the

Yeah. That's scary.

It was.

Then you have to take responsibility for yourself.

You can't blame somebody else. You can't be complacent anymore.

So you did that.

How long ago was it that you walked away?

2015. So it's been a little over five years.

Okay. Any regrets?

No. Best decision I ever made.

All right. But it wasn't all cupcakes and, and, uh,

daisies. Okay.

Oh, there was moments of sobbing in my new apartment. And uh,

the first Christmas I spent alone, uh, alone,

which is something that no one should ever go through. Um,

whatever major holiday you celebrate having to do it alone is brutal. Um,

so yeah, there was a lot of tough moments where I had to remind myself one,

you chose this and two will get better. In three.

I used to use a coping strategy where like,

I can remember sitting at my kitchen table,

freaking out that I was alone and divorced and I would ask myself, okay,

are you safe? And I'd look around at the walls. It'd be like, yeah,

I'm safe here. Are you warm? Like, you know, do you have air conditioner?

Are you going to be that way for the next 30 minutes to an hour? Okay.

Then breathe. Yeah. That was all I could do was be in that kind of a moment.

Like, okay, nothing else matters. You're safe. No,

one's going to hurt you right here. Breathe.

Yeah. Sometimes that is what we have to do. Am I okay.

In this moment, like bringing yourself back to this very present moment,

which is really in this whole scope of things all we ever have anyway.

But making yourself hyper aware of I'm okay.

Right now. And for the next 30 minutes,

I can breathe through this and get to the next 30 and the next 30

after that. Did you, where did you learn that technique or did you just like,

how did you know to do that?

I think desperation?

Okay. Sometimes that's a great tool resource.

Yeah. And I had done a little bit of yoga and meditation, so I did know the,

you know, bring yourself back, check in with your body type. It,

it was really a variation on that. A more stripped down,

desperate panicky variation of notice the things around you notice where

you are. Okay. Okay. Reset.

Yeah. That's awesome. And I,

I encourage anybody who's listening who is finds themselves in that

anxiety filled place to use that technique because that is, uh,

it sounds like it was very useful.

I can see how that would be something that is grounding,

especially in that very moment. Was your family,

did you have friends or family?

Like w what was the outside support for you?

I have a lovely family,

but my sister lives overseas and my parents live in Florida.

I'm in Arizona and my parents weren't able to travel and my sister has five

children and she wasn't able to travel,

which is why I ended up spending that Christmas alone. Um,

and I also had a very demanding job, so I couldn't fly to them.

So I do have family, but they're very long distance.

Are they supportive of your decision to leave? Yes.

Okay. Okay.

I wasn't sure. Because given the description of the

when you were growing up,

I wasn't sure if they would then be supportive when

to do that.

Yeah, they are. They, I mentioned the church got off track,

turns out my family is way more loving and supportive and kind and

compassionate than I realized. Um,

I thought they'd be much more judgmental. And even to this day,

sometimes I'll tell them something and think there'll be judgemental and they

never are.

That's so interesting too,

that you had these ideas and these beliefs that maybe weren't really

true. Correct. So when you got to,

when you had to examine them now, they're like, wait a minute.

This isn't really how I, what I thought was reality isn't, isn't true.

Yes.

Which I tend to be one of those people who feels like I'm responsible for other

people's reaction. And so I will forecast how I think you're going to react.

Like, Oh, if I told Lori, I need to delay this, she'll be upset.

Same great therapist asked me one time, just off the cuff, are you God?

And I was like, what? She's like, are you God? I'm like, well, no.

And she's like, Oh, because you act like you are like,

you can control how people are going to respond based on what you do.

And I was like, Oh no, she didn't.

Oh, wow. You just keep coming with these revelations.

Right. But it was so occasionally I laughed to myself now,

when I'm trying to handle everything and control, I'm like, Hey,

you're not God stop. Um, back to your other question,

did I have friends? The answer was no.

People always hear about abusive relationships and they say like,

if he isolates you and much,

like you hear about when someone offers you drugs and you picture it's going to

be the after-school special.

That's the way he isolated me was to

pout.

If I was going to do something with friends or to make the rest of the night

miserable, when I came home, like glad you have fun, blah, blah, blah.

And so I actually voluntarily gave up having friends

and socializing. He didn't say like, I always pictured in my head. It would be,

you can't have friends. He just made it so uncomfortable for me to have them.

Then I was like, well, I won't go. If you're going to be upset.

If I go to the point that I ended up with, no one,

now it turns out I had some fantastic coworkers that stepped up as friends

and helped me through the process. But yeah. Wow.

So then you had to go out and find yourself some friends.

I did. Um,

and it was on my list of things I wanted when I made the list that I wanted in

that life.

There was an entire category and I felt like a sad little dork making it,

but it was a huge thing I wanted, I said, a girlfriend to have wine with,

a couple of people to go on a road trip. Someone I can call if I'm sad,

like those are, it's still in my phone. The list.

Let's go back to that list for a second.

Because I think that list is so important.

Whether you're looking for someone to step up,

like you were making it to, to ask him to,

if he was willing to do, give you any of those things,

whether you're in a situation like that or not.

When you're thinking about what do,

how do I want to create this life that I want,

that this life that will fill my soul with joy,

making that list sounds kind of, I don't know.

We woo or like ridiculous sometimes,

but I've made lists and you're talking about making a list.

I just think that is so beneficial to help you sort out. What, what do you want,

what do you don't want? What don't you want.

Go ahead.

I was going to say, Even if you're starting from a point of, okay,

I know I don't want this. I don't want that. I don't want,

if you don't know what you do want yet,

start with the list of what you don't want and then flip it around.

What would be the opposite of that?

And I was just going to add that.

I think a lot of people are willing to make lists of, here are the goals I want.

And like you say, I felt stupid. I'm like,

I cannot believe I'm writing down that I want a girlfriend.

I can call if I'm sad or, you know, whatever it was.

But it's been really helpful to have that list. And look back with it,

because I could say, Oh, I want to pass my associates in captive insurance.

Or I want to work out five times a week. That'll bring me some joy,

but why not make a list of the things like friends and the attributes you're

looking for? Because those quote unquote,

intangible elements are something you can look for.

And they are the things that will make you, they make the life worth living.

Yes.

So I'm so glad that you mentioned that you made that list and that that's the

main point of what we're, you know, your story. Great. Thanks for sharing. No,

I do appreciate it.

One of the key elements to come out of what we're talking about is the

importance of making that list,

because it helps you recognize what is important to you. And again,

what's going to bring you joy.

So do you cross things off the list now as you accomplish them or as you write,

you're accomplished as you achieve, you know,

you get a friend that now you have a friend who could go have wine with.

I don't necessarily cross things off the list.

I do look back on the list and partially the friends section,

because I now have an amazing group of friends,

lots of different people I can call.

That's almost become a sentimental thing to me at this point to remind me of

where I was.

And also to remind me that there are people out there

that, because now that I've made friends and had friends,

I want to be able to look for the person who doesn't have them

and help them find them.

And that's a thing that we've talked about before and that I've heard from other

people, but how difficult it is to make friends as an adult. Yeah.

It's tough. And no one wants to feel awkward.

It's like junior high all over again, but we're 40, 50 something.

And we're like, Oh my God, I'm too old to feel this embarrassingly awkward.

I should be better at this.

Right. Well, and that's what your program,

the podcast that you've been talking about creating in your program is,

is going to help people with that whole friend making process.

I'm really excited for you to get working on that.

Thank you. I'm excited too. Yeah. Cause it, I messed it up a lot along the way,

but I definitely learned some things that I think I can teach other people with.

And, um, I mentioned, I spent Christmas alone. Well,

after I spent Christmas alone, I decided, okay,

you can take that experience and you can either put it in your bank as a sad,

sad memory, or you can use it to do good.

So then I started hosting open houses on Christmas Eve for people who

didn't have anywhere to go. Well,

my first year I had one or two people and it was terrible,

just terrible. Okay. And I had to have another gut check moment and say, okay,

you can say, okay, I failed at this. I'm not ever going to do it again.

Or you can take what you learned and try again.

And I decided I'd take what I learned and try it again.

And so next year it was much better. And then the third year it ended up,

there were like 50 people in my 900 square foot apartment.

People still talk about that. Remember that time you I'm like, yes, yes.

Great memory you created for all those people and yourself. Yeah.

So yeah.

It's that kind of learning from what you go through that can help you take it

from fine to fantastic. Like, yeah. Okay. This isn't fine.

Do I just say, okay, well that was a waste or do I say, okay,

let me just try it again,

but do something slightly different until I can make it good.

Yeah.

Yeah. Use it as inspiration. Love it. All right. Well,

we close out every episode with my question of what is that

song, Your walkup song, your hype song, the song that gets you,

completely pumped up when you need extra courage or

enthusiasm. What's your song, Courtney?

I don't know that I have a song I use for extra enthusiasm,

but if I had to have a walkup song, I'm a San Francisco giants fan.

And they had a player named Michael Morris who played the game with absolute joy

and abandon.

Like you ever seen a Labrador just run around that happy,

complete freedom, dopey tail wagging. Yeah. I mean,

he had flowing Brown hair when he would run the bases.

All I could think was that looks like a dog off the leash. Like just,

he was a goofball and I love being a goofball.

And I love getting people involved in being goofballs.

His walkup song was, uh, take me on by aha. Yes.

Because the crowd would try and hit the high notes.

And you can kind of see there's two kinds of people. Those who are like,

I'm going to nail this, I'm going to go for it.

And those who are rolling their eyes, like you guys are so embarrassing.

Yeah. You were the ones who were like, you were among the,

I'm going to nail this.

Oh yeah. With gestures and you know, fake microphone at all. So yeah.

I think in honor of him,

it would be that just to see people act like idiots and have fun doing it.

Good song too, though.

True . Fun video. All around.

Awesome. All right. So lastly, if people want to get in touch with you first,

we will put a link to that song in the show notes.

If people want to get in touch with you, what is the best way to do that?

If they wanted to talk to you about making friends or anything that you shared

today?

I do have a group on Facebook in support of the upcoming podcast

called making friends. They can get in touch with me there.

I can share the link or they can just Google making friends I'm on Facebook.

They can find me Courtney Boles,

or they can find me on Instagram at contemporary Scarlet,

or they can reach out to you.

And I'll happily have a chat with anybody that you introduce me to.

Sounds good. We'll put,

we'll put links to all of that in the show notes as well to make it really easy

for everyone. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Courtney on fine is a four-letter word.