This podcast episode explores the critical theme of leadership during times of crisis, featuring the esteemed Pastor Steven Blandino. He articulates the imperative for leaders to concentrate on fundamental principles, emphasizing the necessity of maintaining emotional control and establishing a crisis management team. Throughout our dialogue, we explore the essential inquiries that must be made while assessing a crisis and the importance of seeking counsel beyond one's immediate circle to ensure comprehensive decision-making. Furthermore, we examine the significance of visibility and accountability in leadership, particularly the need for leaders to communicate effectively and transparently with their teams and communities. As we navigate the complexities of crises, the insights shared in this episode serve as a vital guide for leaders striving to emerge resilient and effective in the face of adversity.

Takeaways:

• The podcast emphasizes the paramount importance of leaders concentrating on the fundamentals during times of crisis, ensuring clarity amidst chaos.
• A crisis management team should be formed with diverse perspectives to provide a comprehensive understanding of the crisis at hand.
• Leaders must be visible and available to their teams, congregations, and families to foster trust and transparency during challenging times.
• Effective communication during a crisis necessitates clarity, frequency, and a strategic order to prevent misinformation and alleviate anxiety for all involved.

Hey there and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.

This podcast is all about providing clarity, insight and encouragement for life and mission.

My name is Aaron Sandemier and I get to be your host.

Today we have the phenomenal opportunity to have with us back on the podcast the friend of the podcast, Pastor Steven Blandino.

He joins us today discuss one of his recent articles leading through crisis in just importance of, you know, as a leader.

A lot of times we are facing crisis so he gives us some great wisdom and insight which he always does on reminding.

He reminds us to concentrate on the basics and not to get overwhelmed with the crisis, but to remember to concentrate on the basics.

How to assess a crisis, building a crisis management team, looking for counsel, how do you find counsel outside in a crisis situation so that you're getting objective opinions that maybe you're not subject subjectively involved.

Four things to develop a crisis plan and how to address a crisis.

The importance of being visible and being accountable and available.

How do we communicate during a crisis and some great take home points for each leader.

If you're navigating, if you're not in a crisis, not coming out of a crisis or you're going into, you might be going into one but just the realities of the day we live in and how we can navigate it and continue to do it well and do it in an intentional way.

And so always a joy to have Steven on the podcast with us.

Do I want to ask you to continue to subscribe to the podcast?

I know the podcast I subscribe to.

That's what shows up on my feed on Tuesday mornings or Monday morning when I'm looking, getting ready for the week and I know what I'm going to be listening to throughout the week and I do want to thank you.

Many of the listeners have listened in for years.

Stephen and I were talking about once we get done recording that we're five plus years into this podcast and many of you have listened to a lot of the episodes and I'm grateful and thankful for you listening and continuing to engage in the podcast.

Continue to send in your questions for back to, you know, with foe.

That's where we get to sit down with Dick and get to learn from him and those are always fun, fun times.

Well, there's no time better than now to get started.

So here we go.

Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.

So excited to have our friend of the podcast, Pastor Steven Blandino.

Steven, welcome back to the podcast.

Thanks Aaron.

So good to be with you again, Stephen.

As if many of you listen know he is the most frequent guest on the Clarity podcast and I know as I get to travel people love and appreciate Stephen and his wisdom that he shared over the years and but Stephen for maybe there's new listeners every day to the podcast.

If somebody's listening in and they haven't listened some of the earlier episodes.

Could you share just a little bit about yourself before I jump into our questions today on leading through crisis?

Yeah.

So married to Karen, we have a daughter, son in law, two grandsons that fill our life with a lot of joy and pastor a church near downtown Fort Worth called Seven City Church.

So yeah, exciting journey.

Good stuff.

Good stuff.

Stephen, we're going to jump in as I said today on an article you wrote on leading through crisis.

So leading through crisis, one of the first things you do is to is to remind leaders to concentrate on the basics.

What are some of the reasons that the basics are so important in the middle of a crisis or around a crisis?

Yeah, I think this really sets the tone for what's going to happen next.

Aaron so for example, basics is you've got to control your emotions.

And the reason is that people take their emotional cues from the leader during times of crisis.

So if the leader is out of control or emotionally just turned upside down, people follow that cue.

So we have to set the tone.

So we've got to control our emotions from the very get go.

We've also got to lead with values, which means we got to define those values before a crisis shows up so we know what we're really anchor.

I think you have to just exercise a posture of prayer.

You need wisdom in a crisis like never before.

And that's when we got to be leaning on God and saying God, you're going to have to guide me and direct me in this.

And then I think one other basic is you've got about realism with optimism, meaning as a leader you've got to face the brutal facts of the crisis of the you can't play it off like it's no big deal.

You got to be honest about the brutal facts and be realistic about that.

But you also have to be optimistic from the standpoint of providing people with hope.

So yeah, you have to acknowledge that it's bad that things are tough.

You can't deny the facts.

But people are also looking for is this going to change?

Is this going to get any better?

Are things going to turn around?

So you're as the leader, you're Dealing with both of those worlds.

I got to be realistic about this.

Face the brutal facts, but also offer people hope moving forward.

Wow.

And as a leader, Steven, in those situations, are you sharing information?

Different, maybe different information with different people, depending on their level of leadership.

If you're serving other leaders, how do you navigate that and deciding?

Because that's attention to walk in.

Right.

You want to hold hope, but at the same time you're, you're, you're facing the reality of the situation.

Any other thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, you're not going to share the exact same thing with every single person.

Right.

Because different people have different levels of involvement in the crisis.

And so some of those individuals are helping to solve the problem.

And so what they know about the issue is going to be deeper than those that are simply impacted by the problem.

Maybe on the periphery, on the edges of it, but they're not really in the thick of it.

They weren't the ones that maybe were directly impact, maybe they were indirectly impacted.

So, yeah, the level of who, who is involved at what level, I mean, that, that communication is going to look a little bit different.

You're not trying to hide anything.

You've got to be transparent, you've got to be honest.

But at the same time, you know, as you're wrestling through it and coming to an understanding of what do we need to do in this situation, you don't have to share every single scenario possible that you processed through before you made your decision.

I mean, you're going some big picture perspective and then share what's best and where you're going.

Because here's what can happen.

If you get too in the weeds, you actually increase anxiety for people.

You're not giving them hope.

So there's not a fine line with that.

It's a tension.

You just manage to figure out who's involved in this decision making and then how do we communicate it in a way to give people a clear path forward that's going to be the most helpful for everybody.

That's good word.

Good word.

Stephen, one of the next things you mentioned is this idea of assessing a crisis.

So what are some of the questions you, you.

When you're assessing a crisis, what are some of the questions you're asking yourself?

You know, if it's a crisis, that is immediate.

So for example, if a tornado blows through, right, Suddenly destroys the building, and people were in the building, that response is going to look different than something that isn't that immediate in a sense.

So for example, if a tornado blows through the building's on fire.

The first question I'm asking, is everybody safe?

Right.

We got to get people out of the building.

We got to make sure everybody is safe and accounted for.

And then you start dealing with the other layers.

So you're going to start looking at, okay, what happened and then who's affected and then what might happen next.

Especially if it's a crisis that's unfolding in layers and you realize this isn't done yet.

Who's at risk here?

Who's going to be affected, what might happen next?

Who should I call?

You've got to figure out who needs to be contacted about this, who needs to be made known about this, who do I need to call?

Both from a standpoint of, like, for my own to get wisdom to help me make better decisions, as well as who needs to be called in terms of people who are.

Who may be at risk, that they need to know what's going on, and they.

We need to make sure that they're.

They've got what they need and they're safe and everything.

And what do I need to do next?

And then what do I need to do after that?

And then what do I need to do after that?

Like, those are some of the questions that you've got to wrestle.

You've got to wrestle through.

Yeah.

Wow.

And as you said, what do you do after that and that and that and that there's a.

Does continue.

It can.

Does continue.

Continue to build.

So, Stephen, when you're looking, we talked about the idea of concentrating on the basics and then where we've assessed the situation.

But you also highlight the fact that having a crisis management team, that, that's.

That's great.

And so what are you.

What are you looking for and what perspectives do you want to have creating this crisis management team?

Yeah, there's probably not one clear answer to this because every crisis is unique.

And so therefore, the perspective you need is going to be unique, and who needs to be in the room is going to be different from one crisis to the next.

I think with local churches, I mean, this is a spiritual work that we're engaged in.

So I think you've got to have spiritual perspective, perspective that's biblically rooted, that is grounded in truth.

There's just.

We can't forget that side of it.

I also think there's got to be people perspective.

What I mean by that is that because crisis impacts different people in different ways, then you're going to have to assemble a wise team of people that gives you the Perspective from those different individuals, from those different people to speak into it.

You can't.

You can't just listen in crisis to one side of the story.

You can't just listen to one aspect of it because that one side will be painted one very specific way to make that individual or that person or that group or whatever look, look the best.

And you just can't go down that road.

Right.

You got to make sure.

Am I getting wise perspective?

I read something I've been reading and, or actually listening to, and I just picked up the book as well because I really enjoyed the audio of it.

A book by William McRaven on conquering crisis.

And one of the things he talks about in that book is that the response, the first report you get on a crisis, he said, is almost always wrong.

And I thought that is a great insight and it really helps us keep in mind, I've got to make sure I'm getting the right perspectives because chances are the first report is either not right or it's incomplete.

And I just thought that was a great insight that he shared.

And of course, he's got all kinds of military background, so he's kind of coming at it a lot from that perspective.

But he said many times the first report you'd get on the field was not, Was not correct.

There was something incomplete or incorrect about it.

So people perspective, I think, helps give you a fuller, broader picture of the situation.

I think another perspective is organizational perspective.

There are going to be things that you have to think about on the organizational side of things.

John Townsend, who's a Christian psychologist, he says that one thing I have observed is that no matter how great your product, service strategy and systems, the right people can accelerate everything and the wrong people can take you down.

And so I think you've got to think about this from all of these angles.

Spiritually, different people.

And organizationally, organizationally it might be that you've got people at the table that understand the impact of the crisis on the organization and whatever that may look at.

So it's not just one piece of the puzzle.

And where I think people get in trouble is when to make decisions and navigate crises purely from one angle, and then that's the angle they protect.

And that usually gets you in trouble.

Yeah.

Back to your point on, you know, is it getting the wrong information?

I was in a crisis with a leader and, you know, he, after we got done, but that was his first question.

Is it true?

He said, I need, I need to make sure this has to be confirmed.

If it's true or not?

And he said that the thing I do first is I take a breath.

Because he said normal, when you hear about it, you want to jump into action.

He said, so I take the time, take a breath.

And then he said, then the other thing asked, is it true?

And I need confirmation from somebody I trust that it is true before, you know, before I, before I get to act.

And so the medical, the medical part kind of made that, you know, taking the breath because they do teach you in the medical world kind of to, you know, come, come out, kind of pull yourself back from the situation and then engage.

Right.

And so it is a kind of a.

But it takes, it takes discipline because in general we just want to jump right in.

And if you're jumping in with false information, it's not a good thing.

Not a good thing.

Crises usually create knee jerk reactions pretty quickly.

And I find the more tired I am, the more knee jerk those reactions they become.

So you share about this idea, and you just mentioned this, seeking outside counsel that may be counterintuitive for a leader who feels like they need to have all the answers.

So they're used to being the Goku person, they have to have all the answers.

What are some key areas you look for an outside counsel during a time of crisis?

Yeah, yeah, you know, there's.

So let me set this up with a. I read a book a while back called who, Not How.

I think it's by Dan Sullivan.

I could be wrong on that.

I think it's by Dan Sullivan.

But the whole premise of the book, and this is so simple and yet so brilliant, is that when we're in a situation, we tend to ask ourselves, how?

How do I do this?

And not just crisis like anything.

I mean, you know, maybe you're wanting to launch a new ministry, a new program, a new strategy.

How will I do this?

How will I do this?

How will I do this?

And sometimes that can be paralyzing and sometimes it can also just really limit your understanding because you're taking on everything yourself.

And he said the right question is not how.

The right question is who?

Who can do this?

Who can do this?

And because we think we have to solve every problem, we slip into the how mode when what we need to be looking at is who can do this?

Who has the wisdom for this?

Who can guide me in this?

Who can lead?

You know, getting the right who's helps us get to the right hows.

And so I think the same is true in crisis.

I think isolating yourself and trying to Figure this out all on your own is when you move into protection mode and you make bad decision or very incomplete, misguided decisions.

So I think you just got to broaden the circle and say, let me get the people involved in this that need to be involved to help us navigate this crisis wisely and in a way that honors God and in a way that helps people and in a way that if there's victims involved, is going to serve the victims and make a support them.

Right.

This just has to be handled wisely.

So those who's.

There's going to be different who's.

So, for example, you know, some of those who's maybe other wise pastors that have gone through this themselves, that you can tap into their wisdom.

It may be experienced leaders, people who have, you know, maybe they're not pastors or in ministry, but they're smart leaders and they, they've maybe navigated a situation that you can just, you know, pick their brain, draw on sometimes as legal advisors.

And if you're, if you're consulting legal advice, you know, you're calling an attorney or whatever, it doesn't always mean that you've done something wrong.

I mean, yes, it can mean that for sure, but sometimes the reason you consult an attorney is not because you've done something wrong, but so that you don't do something wrong.

True.

You know what I'm saying?

Because what can happen is with legal advice, you don't know what you don't know.

And you can have every good intention that I'm going to help in this situation and in the process do something that you're not supposed to do because of maybe legal ramifications that you just weren't aware of.

So sometimes just getting that legal advice can be helpful with that.

Another piece is licensed counselors.

And this can be helpful from a couple of perspectives.

One, if you are navigating a crisis, you're suddenly taking on a measure of stress and pressure that you haven't had.

And you may need it for your own mental health and your own just sanity through this to just think straight and keep a good head on your shoulder.

And just having a counselor to help you with that can be immensely helpful as well as if there are people that have been affected by this crisis in a way that's really creating hardship for them.

Or maybe it's mental stress that they're experiencing, maybe they're a victim or whatever.

It may be licensed counselors that you can connect them with to say, hey, we want to help you.

And this is One way that we can do that.

Another outside help can be financial advisors, people that can help you navigate the financial aspects.

You know, like when Covid hit, I mean, that put a major financial strain on a lot of organizations and they had to seek outside help.

Like, how are we going to navigate this?

We got to make some very difficult financial decisions that are going to impact the company or the organization or the church.

And some of those decisions impact people, especially if it means layoffs.

Right.

So, yeah, just.

That's way too much for one person to handle.

You've got to surround yourself with not just people, wise people within the church and within.

Or within the organization or the ministry, but people outside that have that.

Whose perspective is not going to get deluded or, or somehow altered because of the intensity of the situation.

Like, they're not emotionally involved in it, so they're able to think clear.

And you need that clear thinking to help you make good decisions.

Yeah, they bring that objectivity to it and they're able to let that objectivity that is, that is super, super important, Stephen.

Those relationships that you're trying to build before you get to the crisis.

I mean, I guess the answer I would think is you would be.

But at the same time, maybe you're not.

Maybe you don't know what you need to know until you get into the middle of it.

I don't know.

You know, I mean.

Yeah, I mean, some, some of it is.

Is.

Yeah.

I mean, you, you want to have some of those things already, you know, where you can access them quickly.

And if you've done a good job just connecting with people over the years, you're.

You're going to have, you're going to have that.

However, if the crisis is a very unique crisis that, I mean, you normally just wouldn't have that conversation with somebody, then you may suddenly find yourself in a place where you're like, I need help with something that it was nowhere on my horizon.

And in that situation, sometimes it's not who do you know, but who does someone you know know.

You know what I'm saying?

And you reach out to them and say, hey, I need someone who's got some wisdom in this area.

Can you.

I know you're really well connected.

Can you conn people that really may be able to help me navigate this.

And I've heard of pastors doing that too.

In fact, I've even heard of pastors who, like, I heard of one pastor who.

His.

His church.

They, they were.

A gunman had come in and, and killed some people.

In his church.

And when a situation like that happened in another church somewhere in the country, he actually reached out to them and said, hey, I've been through what you're about to go through and if I can help, I'd be, I'm happy to do so.

So, you know, just, just, you know, looking for who has gone through what I've gone through and, and, and, and, and, and trying to get connected with him.

People want to help and they're willing to give advice if they feel like they can be of service.

Yeah.

And having the courage to do it, the courage to ask, ask for, for it, for when we need to it.

A few of the other things.

You looked at four things that are vital for a plan to address a crisis.

So you're in a crisis, but you mentioned four things that are vital to address the crisis.

Could you share those with us?

Yeah.

And let me just begin by saying there's obviously more than four things you have to do.

I think this comes into maybe it's a little bit of a framework.

And even as I look at it now, I'm like, yeah, I left this out and that out and I, it should have included this.

But these are some of the things I think you've got to think about.

One is resources.

Because plans to navigate a crisis suddenly are going to demand resources that you may or may not have.

And so, you know, it may be, you just say, hey, we have to dip into financial reserves to navigate this crisis.

And that's why those reserves are there.

It's to help us in unexpected times.

So what are the, that are needed as well as.

Are there other resources that may be available to us that we're just not aware of?

Research is the second thing.

And time is often limited in a crisis.

So it's not like you've got time to say, well, we're going to go for a couple months in research.

No, you've got to move quick.

But you may have to look at what, what resource do we need to get to be clear on what we've got to do and making sure we're doing the right thing.

Who do we need to talk to about this?

Who do we need to connect with?

And you're doing a lot of thinking on your feet.

So in a sense, it's kind of like rapid research.

But you've got to somehow diagnose the crisis to be able to make good decisions moving forward.

And sometimes that's talking to other people, sometimes it's interviewing people, sometimes it's, it's seeing Others who have gone through stuff.

And what can I glean from that to help us?

When you've done that research, then you got to create a roadmap, and that's your plan forward.

How are we going to move forward with this?

And then the last thing is roles, meaning who's going to do what, who will do what by when, who's going to take.

Because you can't do it all.

So who's part of the team to help make this happen?

So I'll give you an example.

Years ago, and this was before we started seven City Church, the church that I was a part of, of, they.

They got a call letting them know that because of a major hurricane that had hit the coast of Texas, people and from Louisiana, people were being bussed, like hundreds and hundreds of people were being bused from major cities along those coasts to the Dallas Fort Worth area.

And they needed a place to stay.

And so our church that I was a part of at that, that they had a big gym where they could sleep people.

And so we opened that up and the city brought cots for people to sleep on.

And then they had meals set up that could be brought in and everything.

So that was a crisis moment for these people that we got to be part of the solution for.

And when I think about that situation and I think about these four, like, the resources.

Well, one of the resources was, was our city and them saying, well, we're going to provide the cots, we're going to provide meals that'll be brought in.

And then, you know, with research, you know, we started asking, okay, what are the needs that as people come in, what are the needs that they're going to.

Going to have?

One of the needs that we didn't even think about is they got to do laundry.

Yeah.

And we had a washer and a dryer in, in that building.

And.

And so we thought, okay, well, we can do.

Do their laundry.

So we created a system that would be able to do the laundry.

You know, in terms of a roadmap.

We said people can't just be in this building for 24 hours a day with absolutely nothing to do.

So we kind of created a schedule of, okay, what's going to be a schedule that kind of keeps people in a good mental space.

Space.

And, and because they don't know, am I going to go back home and find nothing there?

If they had little kids, you know, they're like, I gotta, I gotta take care of my kids.

I. I've gotta, like, yeah, like all this stuff so, so what is the schedule that we can create that just kind of allows for just some sanity and, and then, you know, with roles, we were like, okay, who.

Who.

Let's.

Let's recruit volunteers that can help us, volunteers that can serve the food when the food shows up, volunteers that can do people, volunteers that can hang out with kids in the game room.

So whenever, you know, we open that up at different times that, you know, there's people to connect with them.

So.

So all of that kind of became part of how we responded to that, to that crisis.

And here's what we heard, Aaron, is that we had.

They had a police officer that would stay on site every night.

And I think it was the police officer that told us.

They said, yeah, this site, everybody knows this is the.

The place to be, because this is the most peace.

Peaceful site of all of them.

Wow.

Wow.

And we just had it well organized and, and done in a way that you could.

You could handle and, and support and serve people in a time of crisis.

Yeah.

And what better having peace in.

In a crisis or a place to be where it's peaceful?

Man, that.

That speaks.

That speaks.

Stephen, a little bit earlier on, you talked about the role of a leader, and you kind of touched on it.

But being available and visible, what are some reasons that a leader's availability and their visibility in a crisis is just paramount?

Yeah, this is so crucial.

In fact, I love a quote that I came across from coach Bear Bryant.

He one time said, in a crisis, don't.

Don't hide behind anything or anybody.

They're going to find you anyway.

They're going to find you anyway.

So don't even, like, let that be your response.

You've got to be visible and you've got to be available.

And I kind of think about that in a church context, Aaron.

I think about that in three dimensions.

One is you got to be visible and available to your team.

Okay?

You can't go missing in action.

Your team are going to carry the brunt of a lot of the response, and you've got to be there, visible and available to them to help support them as they're carrying out whatever the plan is.

I think you've got to be visible and available to your congregation.

Again, the congregation is asking questions.

There's lots of what ifs and what's going to happen next.

And they've got to see the.

That you're present, that your emotions are under control, that you're thinking clear, that you're making good decisions, that you're being honest.

And transparent that you're giving hope for the future like they've got to.

Again, the congregation is going to take cues from you, just like your team is going to take cues from you.

And I realize this is a lot of pressure on the leader because.

But yeah, that's, that's what leaders get to do, right?

Yeah.

You don't just get to lead in the good times.

You get to lead in the crises as well.

And then.

And this one can be easy to forget, but you got to be visible and available to your family.

And that's.

That doesn't mean it's going to be at the same level as normal.

But there, there somehow you've got to build into your schedule at least a touch point with your family.

Yeah.

And it may be, hey, listen, I know dad has, has been.

Has been gone a lot, you know, but it's, it's making that phone call, you know, it's.

It's, you know, having that moment where you're connecting with them, even if it's just for a few minutes, if you're driving on the road and you're not having to make a call for something else, like it's picking up the phone and just making that quick call, just looking for ways to rem.

Visible and available to your family.

Again, it's not going to be at the same level.

I mean, I walked myself and a couple other gentlemen, we had to walk a church through a difficult situation a while back.

And during that time, I was in a lot of meetings, and it was very, very, very time consuming.

And, yeah, I kind of felt like I didn't see Karen for a couple of.

It was just, you know, looking for those moments to just make that.

That connection and being available.

So, yeah, you just have to be visible and available to your team, to your congregation, to your family.

And then if there's people outside of those contexts that have been affected by something, you've got to.

You've got to be available there as well.

Again, crises are.

No two are exactly the same.

So they're going to look different.

But connecting with them, and if you can create any kind of rhythm for connection, and it may simply be, hey, hey, team, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to connect together every morning for 10 minutes before the day starts, or it may be, hey, on this day and on this day at this time, just clear your calendar.

We're going to meet.

I'm going to always bring you up to speed on where we're at, finding ways to do that, because communication through a crisis is paramount.

It is paramount.

That's good.

When, when you do.

And I know that's.

That's a whole nother animal.

And we can talk about that if you want to.

Yeah, no, let's do.

Let's do it.

Let's talk about it.

So, crisis.

Well, the community.

Yeah, you mentioned that.

Some.

The communication.

And what are some essentials when you're.

You're communicating in a crisis?

One is the order of communication.

So there's like a sequential order to communication in a crisis.

Mean you're going to talk first with core leaders, you're going to talk with your staff, you're going to talk with your board, you're going to talk with people that have to make the tough decisions in a crisis.

So your communication is going to probably begin with them, and then it's going to begin to layer out from there.

You know, it's kind of like with.

And I know I've shared this before, when you're casting vision, you cast a vision first to your staff and board, and then you cast a vision to your key leaders and then your volunteers and then the entire congregation.

Same type of principle with crisis.

And I'm not saying it's identical, but there's a layering effect in communication, because what you don't want is to communicate something to everybody.

And then people start coming to all of your leaders asking questions, and they're like, I don't know.

Know.

This is the first I've heard this.

And then they can't respond, and they can't comfort people and they can't support people.

So.

So they've got to.

You got to, you know, everybody's got to kind of know what's going on.

So there's a sequential level to it.

It's got to be clear.

And.

And I think there are times when it's best to write the communication down so that you say exactly what needs to be said and you can be clear about it, and you're not.

Because here's what can happen when you're having to communicate in a crisis.

You can be nervous, you can stumble over your words, and then you start spiraling.

Sometimes if it's just written and where you can communicate exactly what needs to be said, where you can be transparent, you can be clear, and you can state it, and then people like, okay, we've got it, then, you know, if that's what you need to do, then do that.

The communication also has to be wise.

You got to give the appropriate details.

You've got to, you know, you've got to make sure you've gotten the feedback from others that you need to make sure you're communicating what needs to be communicating.

If there's confidentiality things in play, you've got to have the wisdom to know, hey, this is confidential.

And, you know, I can't share this.

Whether it's.

I can't share it legally or you can't share it because you've got a protective victim or whatever, you got to just be wise in your communication.

And then I think it's got to be frequent.

You've just got to know what's the frequency of this communication.

It doesn't mean you communicate with the same frequency to every layer.

The frequency you're communicating with those that are making decisions is going to be more frequent than maybe a general communication that you're giving to the entire congregation or to the community or whatever it may be.

I love something.

Something, Aaron, that, that I read from John Gordon one time.

He said, where there is a void in communication, negativity will fill it.

And I thought that is so true.

When you don't communicate frequently enough, then people start filling in the gaps with their own.

Their own thoughts, their own assumptions or, or, you know, or speculating or whatever.

And that's just because we didn't communicate frequently enough.

So.

So, you know, if you want to avoid some of that negative communication, just make sure there's enough frequency where people understand exactly what's going on.

Wow.

It's good.

Two things on that.

One, there's a bias.

You know, I read this book on think fast, think slow, and then they talked about a lot of the biases.

So I got on this big stint on studying different biases.

I think it's called the homogeneity bias.

And that idea that the further.

The distance of time that you've connected with someone or been around them, that there's.

That the gaps grow and then you fill it in with the negative intentions on how they are not like me and how they're not for me.

You know, I mean, and so it's.

I think it's homogeneity bias.

And then the other thing you mentioned was that having those things written down, I find myself in crisis is if I don't have things written down, I end up in and I'm taking the Q A, I'll get on my heels and then I can become defensive.

And I know I'm doing it and I don't want to do it, but I still.

But, you know, it's a crisis.

You're wore down.

You're, you know, you're.

And you can.

But if I don't have those talking points written and can refer back to.

I get on my heels, and then it comes off defensive.

And then, Then, then I, you know, several times I've needed to apologize.

It's not what you want to be.

You're not trying to be defensive.

But at the same time, if you don't.

If I don't have those things to come back to, then I can.

And that's where I end up at.

That's where I end up at.

Yeah, that's good.

That's good.

And not where I want to be.

So.

All right, I got two more questions for you, Stephen.

Crisis.

They can be costly.

Yeah.

How do.

How do we plan or do we plan for a crisis?

Yeah, well, they can be costly.

And I mean, again, look at Covid.

That was very costly.

And obviously the US Government stepped in and tried to do things to help people.

But, you know, some people, they.

It was devastating, significantly for them personally or for businesses or, you know, organizations that shut down completely.

I mean, a lot of churches shut down during that time.

So, you know, I came up with something, and this is the preacher alliteration inside of me.

So forgive me, but I kind of came up with several questions and one word that goes with each of those questions, and they all start with the letter D. So if you'll just give me a moment, I'll walk through that really quickly.

The first one is do you do?

And the question is, what priorities should we focus on?

In other words, what should we do in this time?

What is most important, where we need to be allocating resources.

The second one is delete.

And that's what easy cuts can we make.

If you realize this is putting undue pressure on us financially and we're gonna have to make some cuts.

Okay, well, then what do we delete?

What are we gonna.

What are we gonna cut?

Another one is discontinue.

And the question there is, what services or purchases are not essential at this time?

Maybe you've been paying for a monthly service and you just realize we can discontinue that for this time.

It's just not essential.

Another one is delay.

What new initiatives should we temporarily suspend?

It doesn't mean you're permanently going to do away with them, but you just say, we're going to press pause on that.

We're going to delay launching this because we know it's going to require resources that we don't have right now.

So we're just going to, we're going to delay this.

Another one is decrease.

What budget lines should we reduce?

Maybe you're not going to get rid of them completely.

But you say, hey, we're going to, we're going to drop this 10%, we're going to reduce this area 20%.

And I'm not suggesting the same across the board.

Right.

Because again, not everything is equal in regards to its importance, especially during a crisis.

There are going to be some areas.

You're like, we can't afford to cut anything here, but there may be something else.

You say, we can cut that 30% and it's okay, delegate is another one.

So are there some things that we can outsource for free or for less that would help us navigate this?

Another one is deal.

What I mean by that is, are there services or contracts that you can renegotiate with an organization?

And you say, hey, listen, we want to keep using you guys, but we can't keep using you at this time level because of the financial pressure.

Can we renegotiate our contract with you or can we, you know, look at what the options are here?

And then the last one is the opposite of all of this, and that's distribute, and that is what can we give to those in need?

And I think the church has to remember we can't just move into a protective mode to protect.

Oh, we got, you know, we got to protect ourselves.

So we can't do anything to help anybody.

We got to make sure we don't go under that.

That's.

No, we're still a faith driven organization.

We're the body of Christ.

Faith is the currency of heaven.

So that means even when it doesn't make sense, we got to look and go, okay, I know things are tight, but what do we, what do we need to do to help?

I remember when Covid hit, you know, we, we started investing more money in our local food bank.

And, and yeah, things were tight, but it was like, okay, but people aren't eating.

And we can be a part of the solution here.

So what can we do?

Not to just pull back, but also to funnel resources to help people that are being affected by this crisis.

Good word, good word.

Stephen, last question I got for you is moving out of the crisis mode and into the recovery mode can be challenging.

Any words of wisdom on moving from the crisis into the recovery.

The recovery remove.

Yeah.

So I think one of the challenges you face is you have to think short term and you have to think long.

Term, you've got to think short term because you're having to deal with the immediate impact the crisis is having on people.

But you also have to think long term because you recognize there are things that have to be done to prepare us for the future.

So for example, if a church burned down to the ground, right.

Well, you're dealing with the short term of that, especially if people are in the building.

I mean, the short term is we got to get everybody out and make sure everybody's safe.

But then the short term is also the immediate cleanup.

And did it burn the whole building down?

And if not, then are there things in the part that didn't get destroyed that we got to, you know, move all that stuff out?

And so, I mean, there's short term things you just have to deal with, but then you got to deal with the long term as well.

Of are we going to rebuild, are we going to relocate, Are we what?

You know, the short term is where are we going to meet this Sunday for services?

The long term is where are we going to meet for the long term?

Yeah, so, so you're balance.

There's this juggling act of I got to deal with both the short term and the long term, which can be.

Be exhausting.

And again, that's where getting the right people around you to think, think clearly about this.

So you don't make short term decisions that have negative long term ramifications because you are desperate in the moment and then you handicapped yourself because you made a commitment to something that's not sustainable.

So short term, long term, I think another part of the recovery mode is you've got to be focused but flexible.

Flexible.

You got to be focused on what you got to get done.

But in crisis, everything doesn't go exactly as planned.

It just doesn't.

No matter how good the plan is, it just go to crisis, right?

It's, it's.

That's right.

Not an equation.

It's not an equation.

That's right.

So you got to be flexible.

You got to just realize and, and sometimes that's something you've got to sit down with your team on the front end and say, guys, listen, I know what we're about to deal with or what we're dealing with here is very difficult.

And my commitment to you is that I'm going to lead the very best I can and I'm going to communicate the very best I can and keep you in the loop.

But guys, here's what I need you to know.

We got to be focused on handling this but everything is not going to go as planned.

It's just not.

And what I need from all of us is we're just going to have to be flexible.

That means there's going to be times we plan something and suddenly it has to change.

There are going to be things that we thought were going to go this way and sudd suddenly it's going to go a different way.

And there's going to be times you feel like you're wasting time because you planned something that then suddenly changed at the last minute.

And I apologize in advance, but we're all just going to have to be flexible in this time.

That conversation, it just sets expectations and lets people know that what you're expecting is you're probably not gonna be able to expect.

You know what I'm saying?

The expectation is you can't expect what you're expecting.

So there's some flexibility that we're gonna have to have here.

And then I think as well, learning from the crisis is huge.

Take notes.

During the crisis, you know, I remember during COVID there were times I would go and I would jot things down that I thought, you know what, I need to remember this because you never know what the future is going to hold.

Is there going to be another pandemic?

Maybe, you know, but, but a lot of times lessons, crisis lessons are transferable.

Like they're not just, they don't just apply to one specific crisis.

So jot those things down, you'll forget them, learn from them.

And then, you know, in, in this recovery mode as well.

Don't, don't forget that you personally have to recover as well.

Well, and that's where the self care, the mental health piece, the.

Yeah, you know, you kind of have to keep that, that peace and in that focus as well.

Stephen, it's a joy to have you back on the podcast.

Thanks for sharing your, your wisdom with me and with us today.

Will you pray for us?

Yeah, absolutely.

God, thank you for just the opportunity to be with Aaron and this incredible group of listeners.

I pray that you would give us wisdom, God, help us to lead well when unexpected things come, when crises appear.

Help us in those moments to rise to the occasion to lead well, to lead with integrity and honesty and transparency and to lead with diligence and to honor you in the process.

God, I pray that you would surround leaders with the wisdom or with people that just have the wisdom to navigate things.

Lord, you already see into the future.

You already know what's coming.

Help us to be well prepared and to navigate crises that may show up.

Unexpected things that we even had no control over, but.

But that's the hand we're dealt.

Help us, God, to be good leaders in those moments, to please and honor you and to do what is going to help people in the very best way possible.

We thank you that you're with us, that you don't leave us or forsake us in times of difficulty and hardship.

In Jesus name, amen.

Amen.

Sam.