Reinvention after 70 is not about starting over, it’s about evolving with clarity and courage. On Call Me Friend, Daryn Kagan calls bestselling author Mary Kay Andrews for a raw, honest conversation about aging boldly, personal loss, career pivots, and finally saying what matters most.

Mary Kay shares how she transitioned from newspaper journalism to writing more than 30 bestselling novels, why losing her daughter changed how she shows up in the world, and what pushed her to become outspoken on social media later in life. Together, they explore why evolution matters more than reinvention, how grief and purpose can coexist, and why having fewer filters can actually bring more connection.

This episode also touches on health after 70, finding meaning through advocacy, and why pivoting is one of the most important life skills as we age.

If you are navigating change, grief, or wondering what’s next in midlife or beyond, this conversation will remind you that growth doesn’t have an expiration date.

In This Episode, You Will Learn

✅ Why evolution matters more than reinvention as we age

✅ How Mary Kay Andrews left journalism to become a bestselling author

✅ How grief reshaped her priorities and sense of purpose

✅ Why she decided to speak out politically later in life

✅ How to pivot without a safety net

✅ Why aging can bring freedom instead of fear

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Sign up for our newsletter https://darynkagan.substack.com/

Timestamps

(00:00) Reinvention after 70 and evolving without apology

(04:10) Health, aging, and changing habits later in life

(08:00) Leaving journalism and secretly writing fiction

(13:20) Getting published by breaking the rules

(18:40) Creating the Mary Kay Andrews pen name

(24:10) Losing her daughter and navigating grief

(28:30) Advocacy, purpose, and speaking out

(33:40) Social media, backlash, and finding your voice

(37:30) Why pivoting is the ultimate life skill

Key Takeaways

🔹 Reinvention doesn’t always mean starting over

🔹 Grief and purpose can exist at the same time

🔹 Aging brings clarity and courage

🔹 Pivoting is a skill that grows with time

Guest Bio

Mary Kay Andrews is a New York Times bestselling author with more than 30 novels published. A former newspaper journalist, she built a second career writing beloved Southern fiction and mysteries. Today, she is also known for her outspoken advocacy, powerful storytelling, and fearless honesty about aging, loss, and purpose.

Resources

1. Mary Kay Andrews new book "Road Trip" https://amzn.to/3OebLVs
2. Friends and Fiction:https://friendsandfiction.com/
3. Helping Mamas: https://helpingmamas.org/
4. Department Q: https://www.netflix.com/title/81487660
5. Powered by Ms Lou’s Cabin- https://www.airbnb.com/h/mslouscabin
6. Sign up for our newsletter: https://darynkagan.substack.com/
7. "Hope Possible" https://amzn.to/46uNoJ9

reinvention after 70, aging, women reinventing themselves later in life, grief and healing, finding purpose later in life, second act careers for women, personal growth after loss, women over 60 redefining aging, evolving instead of reinventing, personal growth,

Guess what? My publisher is behind me all the way. And if they weren't, they wouldn't be my publisher.

Daryn Kagan: Hi friend. It's Darren. Welcome to Call Me Friend, powered by Miss Lu's Cabin, an Airbnb property on a remote section of the Georgia Coast. This is the podcast where I call a friend and you get one heck of an incredible story. Today I'm thinking of. About reinvention and before you feel too much pressure that you have to reinvent.

You might not be a network news anchor who lost her job and then went on to create a media company and a podcast and a website, but chances are you've had something end, which kind of leads to my theory that everything ends every job, every relationship, every life ends, which brings you to a place where you're gonna have to kind of figure out what the next thing is.

She's got an incredible social media following. But she also continues to evolve. She didn't start at all those things. She has evolved into those and most recently has evolved into being very outspoken on social media and has a huge social media presence because of that. How does she do that? Why does she do that?

And what is the one thing that she is doing right now that is hopefully gonna change the way her life plays out from the way her mother's life played out? There's one way to find out, let's call. Mary Kay Andrews.

It is a place, so quiet, don't even hear road noise. Instead what you will hear pink spoonbills, wild dolphins feeding off your private dock. The breeze whistling through the Spanish moss that. Hangs from the countless oak trees all over the property. The porch overlooking the marsh is the perfect place to hang with family.

Read a zillion books, catch the sunrise, all while you stay in a restored log cabin that has all the comforts and amenities of a beautiful home. Miss Lou's cabin, check out the link in the show notes, or simply Google Miss Blue's cabin and you'll find this piece of paradise. Well, hey friend.

Mary Kay Andrews: Thank you for taking

Daryn Kagan: my

Mary Kay Andrews: call.

I'm happy to hear from you.

Daryn Kagan: What am I interrupting today? Because you have always a thousand things going on.

Mary Kay Andrews: Oh, well, today I took a two and a half mile walk.

Mary Kay Andrews: And then this afternoon I'm reading a book for one of our upcoming podcasts for friends and fiction.

Daryn Kagan: Mm-hmm.

Mary Kay Andrews: And, you know, who knows, maybe I'll get a little writing in.

Daryn Kagan: Okay. As a, as a side hustle maybe.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. Maybe.

Daryn Kagan: So, who am I talking to today? Am I talking to Mary Kay or am I talking to Kathy?

Mary Kay Andrews: I think you're talking to Mary Kay. 'cause I put on lipstick.

Daryn Kagan: Okay. Well, fancy.

Mary Kay Andrews: Hmm. I mean, I've still got on my, um, leggings and my bedroom slippers where people can't see me, but since I've got on makeup and a nice sweater on Mary Kay.

Daryn Kagan: I feel very important that you put out that effort to be here. Very good. I feel

Mary Kay Andrews: important to be asked.

Daryn Kagan: Well, speaking of taking long walks, it seems from here, like you, in recent months, maybe, maybe longer, you have put extra effort into your fitness and into your health.

Daryn Kagan: congratulations.

Mary Kay Andrews: Thank you. When I was approaching that age, it occurred to me, but my mom died at 71.

Daryn Kagan: Wow. Okay.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. She dropped out of a heart attack and so, um, she had multiple health issues. Mm-hmm. But the biggest issue was she doesn't take care of herself. And at that point in May of 24, I thought, you know, I'm gonna re reevaluate everything I'm doing.

Um, and I, because I wanna, I wanna be healthy and I wanna live a, I wanna live a longer life.

Daryn Kagan: Mm-hmm.

Mary Kay Andrews: And I totally don't want my husband's next wife spending my money.

Daryn Kagan: Well, here's to that,

Mary Kay Andrews: here's to that,

Daryn Kagan: that, oh, yes. Is there better motivation than that? I think not.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. I started doing a lot of different things.

Daryn Kagan: I do wanna say about a husband's next wife. I find when I think of her for my husband, she's very convenient for things that I don't want to do.

I tell him, well, he can do that with the next Mrs. Swanson.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yes,

Daryn Kagan: not spend my money, but like, we have an ongoing discussion, not argument about our kitchen island. It goes, let's say, landscape, and he wants to rip up the whole kitchen just to make it go. The other way, and he keeps insisting that that's the best.

And it's, I'm telling you, it, it's not gonna happen. Yeah. But I keep telling him, well, he can do it with his next wife.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah, yeah.

Daryn Kagan: I'm sure. Then the next Mrs. Swanson will love to have it going that way.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. And the next Mrs. Troche, uh, will have a sense of direction and um mm-hmm. Will be very compliant. And I am neither

Voice Over: because that didn't happen.

Mary Kay Andrews: I am neither of those things at this point. After almost 50 years,

Daryn Kagan: was it, were you ever even after like the first five years?

Daryn Kagan: Yeah. I think he knows who he has,

Mary Kay Andrews: I hope.

Daryn Kagan: Yes. And he's still here and he still has quite the bargain. I'm just gonna say, there you go. You know, one thing you and I have in common is this traditional news background.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: Yes. Um, so you being a newspaper reporter and me being a television reporter and one of the things that fascinates me about you is this sense of evolution, not, I know reinvention is kind of like a hot term right now. Yeah. But I don't see you as reinventing. I see you as constantly evolving in so many areas of your life.

So how did that evolution from newspaper reporter, which I have no doubt, I bet you are a top. I bet you're really good. I bet you're really good at your job. What inspired you to go to writing fiction?

I felt like, uh, they had pigeonholed me and mm-hmm. Um, were limiting me and, um, newspapers had changed. You know, it was the era of USA today. And I, you know, I was being assigned shorter. I was, I was pigeonholed as the, um, the light bright girl.

Daryn Kagan: Really?

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. To, you know,

Daryn Kagan: I wouldn't have put you on that.

Mary Kay Andrews: Well, you know, my fiction, my fiction kind of, um.

Was an antidote to that. Mm-hmm. I wanted to write bigger stories and, and I, I like, I do like writing Bright and I do some of that too, but, um,

Daryn Kagan: sure.

Mary Kay Andrews: I just was really frustrated. I felt like I was being held back and, um, and so I started writing in Secret and, um, I had, uh, three other friends in the newsroom at the, this, this was at the Atlanta Journal constitution.

Daryn Kagan: Mm-hmm.

Daryn Kagan: Mm-hmm. In downtown Atlanta.

Mary Kay Andrews: At the Kimball House?

Daryn Kagan: Yeah. Okay.

Mary Kay Andrews: On Marietta Street. And, um, I would write, I didn't have a computer at home, so I would sneak back to the paper. My kids were quite young. Um, I would sneak back to the paper after I put them to bed and I would write and I would, you know, print out a chapter. Next day we would meet for lunch and we would, you know, swap chapters and talk about our work.

We weren't really critiquing and eventually more

Daryn Kagan: like sharing and encouraging.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah, yeah. Really. Okay. Um, but eventually they just wanted to, um, drink Bloody Mary's and bitch about the paper.

Daryn Kagan: Not, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Mary Kay Andrews: Not, no, but it's not very productive.

Daryn Kagan: No, that's true.

Mary Kay Andrews: It doesn't get you a book contract.

Um, but

Daryn Kagan: it does not, and that was the goal, a book contract.

Daryn Kagan: really.

Mary Kay Andrews: I really thought I was this laid back, um, person who just took life as it came, and it didn't occur to me. Um, I guess, you know, by the time I was in my late th thirties, I had young kids at home,

Daryn Kagan: right?

Mary Kay Andrews: And I was dissatisfied with my career and wanted, wanted more, and. Eventually I thought, you know what? I'm not gonna, I'm not asking for more. I'm going to get it.

Daryn Kagan: Good for you.

Mary Kay Andrews: I'm not asking for your permission anymore to have a career. We kept meeting and drinking Bloody Mary's, but I kept writing and gave myself the assignment, um, to figure out how you get published.

And at that time, um, you know, a lot of authors were coming through Atlanta on book tours. And I would get myself assigned to interview authors. Mm-hmm. Pick novels. Good

Daryn Kagan: idea.

Daryn Kagan: Well, inspe okay. Dirty being the keyword because, and not asking permission because, um. One of my daughters when she was little would like to say, was that legal? Was that legal for you to be going and using the company equipment to be writing your novel?

Mary Kay Andrews: No.

Daryn Kagan: No.

Mary Kay Andrews: Well, it wasn't, it wasn't le it wasn't not

Daryn Kagan: illegal.

Mary Kay Andrews: No.

Daryn Kagan: It, but it really wasn't.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah, no, it, it

was

Daryn Kagan: naughty.

Mary Kay Andrews: It was, it was against company policy. Totally. Uh, and the other thing I found out besides being goal oriented was that I had a, a pretty wide, for a nice Catholic girl, I had a pretty wide, um, subversive streak. So if you told me not to do it, and the reason you told me not to do it was for your benefit, then maybe I was gonna do what I wanted to do anyway.

Daryn Kagan: So let's go down the checklist of what it takes to make it. So, number one, you have to have, but in seat, right? You actually actually have to do the writing.

Mary Kay Andrews: You do,

Daryn Kagan: um, probably need to be good, but there's a lot of people out there who are good, who do that, who never break through.

Yeah. What was the key to breaking through that first time?

Mary Kay Andrews: Um, part of it was perseverance. Part of it wa was what I was writing. I had, I wrote my first novel and it was set at a fictional newspaper in Savannah where I had started my newspaper career, and I, I queried agents and editors all with the information that I had gleaned from, from picking the brains of published authors and mm-hmm.

Um, I also had a great friend and mentor. Um, fairy godmother at the paper. Um, a long time columnist, Celestine Sibley. And she, I

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: Um, I, I arrived in 94. Shes like, she was the very, very tail end of her.

Yeah. Like, of her life, I think. Um,

Mary Kay Andrews: yeah. She was,

Daryn Kagan: but knows her as a legend.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: I mean, not just a columnist, an absolute legend.

Mary Kay Andrews: She wasn't just a legend, she was a, a person. Who, if she believed in you, would go to bat for you. And she believed in me when I didn't know that I believed in me. And so she took my first manuscript, which was totally against her own policy of, um, reading unpublished manuscripts because that's how you get sued for plagiarism.

She'd had a very dear, absolutely she'd had a dear novelist friend who'd been sued for plagiarism after he read someone's manuscript. But, um, she took my first manuscript to her editor, Harper Collins, who was her dear friend. He didn't buy that manuscript. And so, but I kept going. I started another one.

Daryn Kagan: believable.

Mary Kay Andrews: Believable? Yeah, believable. She gets a PI license and still can't really, um, make the rent as we say. And then her mother talks her into buying a cleaning business called the House Mouse.

And, um, I didn't realize it at the time, but. I was writing into a trend that I didn't know existed, which was, um, regional, um, regional, uh, mysteries with strong female characters. And so I, I, that's what I read. I read Sue Grafton and I read Marsha Moer and I read Sarah Perky. They were my three kind of heroes, fictional author, heroes.

Daryn Kagan: timing.

Mary Kay Andrews: Timing was important. Mm-hmm. Knowing someone never underestimate knowing someone, especially if that's someone can help open doors for you. But all of those things don't matter if you, if, if you don't have the goods, if you, if you're not, and, um, and so and so that, that's what happened.

He didn't buy my first book. He bought my second book. Um, and again, um, breaking rules, I, I sent him my second manuscript. I only had five chapters, but he bought,

Daryn Kagan: and he bought it.

Mary Kay Andrews: He bought it based on, which you don't do these days. You don't?

Daryn Kagan: Okay.

Mary Kay Andrews: No, nobody's, and I was un agent too.

Daryn Kagan: Don't try this at home.

Don't try this at home.

So I went by myself and, uh, they said, you know, we are gonna publish you and we wanna give you a two book contract.

Daryn Kagan: So you don't necessarily wanna give the agent a piece of that, but you also need somebody to look over at this contract.

Mary Kay Andrews: Oh, no, no, no. I absolutely wanted to give the agent a piece of it.

Daryn Kagan: Okay. You, you did.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. She negotiated to get contract. Yeah. To get she, and actually she actually, uh, lined up, uh, another editor who was interested. So, uh, another thing, a little

Daryn Kagan: bidding more.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. Another thing that ha well, I don't know if it was a bidding war, but it was an auction. Yes. And that doesn't, that doesn't normally happen with first time novelists.

We talk about my career, we talk about the trajectory. Um, so, um, if you, if you think that a literary agent, all they do is, is, um, make a deal. That's, that's,

Daryn Kagan: yeah, that's not true. That's

Mary Kay Andrews: just, that's not true. The iceberg. Yeah. They do so much. Mine have always done to so much more.

Daryn Kagan: I actually, you know, worked with agents in tv and then I had a book agent when I was writing more.

Mary Kay Andrews: again, I thought, mm-hmm.

My, uh, you know, I told my husband, I've got a book contract, I'm gonna quit my job. And he was, no, you're not. What if they don't publish your book? And I'm like, they're gonna publish my book. I have a contract. I have, I have what was considered a, a pretty nice, um, advance

Daryn Kagan: at

Mary Kay Andrews: the time advance.

Daryn Kagan: Mm-hmm.

Mary Kay Andrews: But we'd never known anybody who'd, who'd gotten a book contract.

We were a, you know, my husband was afraid, you know, they're gonna pull the rug out from you and then, you know. We have a falling down old house and two kids in Catholic school. So, but I finally just had to say, look, I actually went to my editor at the time and I said, I just wanna, can I work part-time? I have a book contract.

Daryn Kagan: Alright, so then, so then you were out. So then you do a number of books, um, in this mystery series, but again, an evolution where you evolve into Mary Kay Andrews because the, um, first sets of the first books were not as Mary Kay Andrews.

How and why did that happen?

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah, no, I wrote the, I wrote 10 books, um

Daryn Kagan: mm-hmm.

Mary Kay Andrews: The first series, the Callahan Garrity series, there were eight of those, and I had a very short-lived two book series. That were set in my hometown of St. Pete, and they were doing well. Harper was happy. I was getting nice reviews, but I was impatient.

I think I wanna write it under a pseudonym because at the time, the big chains really, um, they decided who had a career and who didn't. So if I had a new Kathy Troche, Callahan Garrity novel. The Barnes and Nobles, um, the Walden books, the Borders, the B Dog

Daryn Kagan: Borders. Yeah.

Mary Kay Andrews: Borders, yeah. Chains that are no longer with us.

Daryn Kagan: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: I gave you a dead body. What do you want? I gave you a body.

Mary Kay Andrews: Well, I honestly thought this, I'm writing mystery. Um, so I, um, and it, it just happened. I, I had just signed with my new agent and, um, I was up for contract. Um, my publisher.

And so, um, I said I'm gonna try a pseudonym and it's a combination of my kids Dames. My daughter Katie was Mary Kathleen. Mm-hmm. And my son is Andrew. And, um, Stewart shopped it and said he didn't tell, he didn't tell Harper, uh, my publisher, that it was me, and he didn't tell the other house that he shopped it to, that it was me.

And there was a strong romantic story in that book. And, um, I'd solved the mystery. And so she said, but you don't, you don't tell me what happens with the relationship. And I'm like, well, it's a mystery. And she said, no, no, you need to tell us how the relationship ends up. And so, um, I'd actually gone down to Savannah to work on that book, and I had to go back for another two weeks to figure out.

And that's when I learned that murder's hard, but relationships are even harder.

Daryn Kagan: Well, isn't that the truth?

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah,

And if you wouldn't mind talking about Katie.

Mary Kay Andrews: Sure. Yeah. Katie, um mm-hmm. Was my best friend.

Daryn Kagan: Mm-hmm.

Mary Kay Andrews: She was a mom. I'm sorry. I do not

Daryn Kagan: apologize.

Mary Kay Andrews: Hey, you know what? I've decided to let myself be vulnerable, so, and I'm Irish too, so, you know, double, double barreled.

Daryn Kagan: And you're a mom?

Mary Kay Andrews: And I'm a mom. Yeah. She, um, two children.

Daryn Kagan: Right.

The doctor said, well, you know, go have some lab work done and we'll find out what's going on. And then the next day her doctor called and said, go to the er, you're in liver failure. Mm-hmm. So her COVID, um, had result, resulted in, um, liver failure and, uh, she was on a waiting list for a, um, a liver transplant and she, um, got COVID again.

And she died. Died for a

Daryn Kagan: second time.

Voice Over: Mm-hmm.

Mary Kay Andrews: So, um, you know, we've, we're so blessed. They live around the corner and have a large, um. And very giving community. And my son-in-law's amazing. And his, his folks are amazing.

Daryn Kagan: and also do things in Katie's honor and in Katie's memory. Yeah.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. We started a, uh, scholarship fund in her name at the parochial school. Mm-hmm. Um, where. Katie and her brother went and where her Katie's children went. There's a wonderful, uh, nonprofit in Atlanta called Helping Mamas.

Daryn Kagan: Mm-hmm. I know it.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. And they supply mm-hmm. Diapers and baby needs. Yes. Uh, and child and child care needs for, um, moms, um, in vulnerable PO positions. And so they've done a, um, a car seat and a, um, pack and play drive. And we do stuff with them. I've started quietly donating to political causes because I have, um, I have some pretty deep feelings about, um, the political landscape right now.

Mary Kay Andrews: yeah.

Daryn Kagan: Thank you so much for sharing Katie with me. Oh, my pleasure. And with whoever's listening to our call. Um. She, she continues to be a gift and you can see how she continues to live in on, on your heart and um, and her kids and your son-in-law as well.

As for this politics thing, I am watching you online quite a bit, and I don't know exactly when it started, but you weren't doing it when you're a newspaper reporter because that wouldn't have jived. No. So at some point, of course, there wasn't social media and all that. Was there a moment where you said, screw it, or even worse language, or a different language, more colorful language.

Screw it, I'm just gonna let it go. Or has this been an evolution to speak out? I

That started me, um, thinking about what's wrong with, uh, American politics and then with Trump. Um, you know, basically trying to sweep COVID under the, under the carpet, minimizing it deliberately, um, misstating facts, and I'd seen the direct effect of that. I'd lost my, my beloved daughter. And, um, and then, you know, other, when he got reelected, I woke up just feeling, um, so depressed.

Daryn Kagan: which is exactly, and not yes, which is what you continue to get to.

I mean, every single post has at least one person who says, well, that's it. I'm not, I used to love your books and I used to love to escape to the beach, and I used to love this, but no more your books for me.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. To

Daryn Kagan: which you say

Mary Kay Andrews: don't care. Don't, I just don't care if you go

Daryn Kagan: farther than that. You go, you almost say, uh, yeah,

Mary Kay Andrews: I do.

It's almost like, I don't know if we were saying dropping f-bombs on this podcast or not, but, um, that's fine. I, I say, you know, I don't care. I won't be a hypocrite. I'm not gonna, I'm not going to shut up to sell books. Um, I won't do that. And if, if that means, you know, that people cancel me. They were never fans anyway.

You know, people who I don't know, stop me and say, oh my gosh, you're, you're Mary Kay Andrews. I love what you're, what the actual fuck? Wednesday I was at a, um, a screening for, I was at a screening for the new, um, remake of Weathering Heights last night at the Plaza Theater. Mm-hmm. And you know that, that theater Yes.

Daryn Kagan: Right there. Mm-hmm.

I just don't. You know, I've had a, I've had a great career, I have a great marriage, I have a great family and friends, my publishing team, people, I love it when people say, I'm reporting you to your publisher. Guess what? My publisher is behind me all the way. And if they weren't, they wouldn't be my publisher because, again,

Daryn Kagan: which with my other question, have you ever gotten any pushback professionally?

Like, Hmm, maybe we wanna tone that down?

Mary Kay Andrews: No,

Daryn Kagan: no,

Mary Kay Andrews: no. I mean, I try, I try not to be an attack dog. I try not to, I try not to dwell on people's, you know, personal appearances and that kind of crap. 'cause I don't care about that. I care about, you know, we have people who are unqualified, um, to hold the office of dog catcher running this country.

Daryn Kagan: the exact opposite of this is gonna be a problem. Not that you're doing it for, that

Mary Kay Andrews: I'm not. No, that's not the reason I do it. No. But, uh, to my amazement, my social media following has, um, taken off.

Daryn Kagan: Tell me about the evolution of you've, you've touched about, you've touched on this. Tell me about the evolution of, is it, what the fuck Friday? No, it's

Mary Kay Andrews: what the actual fuck.

Daryn Kagan: What the actual fuck Wednesdays?

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. Well, I started out doing, I was calling it Walk and Talk and I would just, you know, film myself walking in the park talking about whatever outrage, um, had my spleen in the uproar that week and mm-hmm.

So, um, I finally figured out that a reel, an Instagram reel, can't be more than three minutes, or you lose. You lose your audience. Um, but I want it to be real and I want it, I wanna be vulnerable. You know, it's not some team in New York. It's, it's just me and my iPhone. Um, you know, I, now, I write and edit the reel, um, and try to edit it down to under three minutes and.

Daryn Kagan: No. Um, lack of content. No. Lack of No. No lack of content. No. You never have a g What will I talk about today? No. What will I talk about this week?

Mary Kay Andrews: No, it's narrowing it down is a problem.

Daryn Kagan: I get that. Um, I would like to invite you to be part of our new segment. It is called Asking for a Friend.

Very good. Okay, so this is where, um, one of my listeners writes in. My idea was I have these amazing friends. Why should I be the only one with access? So this is giving access, um, to another friend. And so our friend Martha writes in today and she wants to know what is the most important life skill as we age and face, so much unwanted change.

What would you say to Martha?

Daryn Kagan: Ah. I like that. Which would your, your social media presence and your political commentary would definitely fit into that, wouldn't it?

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah, but it's, it also in what I choose to write about, um, I don't wanna write mm-hmm. The same book over and over again. So, um, you know, I've tried to expand my horizons that way and, and with, you know, with my health journey.

Daryn Kagan: I, uh, can I, um, jump on that? Yeah. Or can I take it from there? So I have a theory that I live by, and that's everything ends. Everything ends Sure. Every job, every life, every relationship. Um, and that, that's not sad. That's actually inspiring because then you appreciate things when they're here and that we tend to get excited by beginnings, really comfortable in the middle, and then just devastated by endings.

And yet everything is going to end. Yeah. And if you appreciate it's gonna end, then that would lead right into your pivot.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah, I mean, I, I think of myself as someone who's very risk averse,

Daryn Kagan: really.

Daryn Kagan: Well, let me ask you this question. The next thing, um, the next book coming out Road Trip.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yes.

Daryn Kagan: What is this? What's the book and how is it different from earlier books?

Mary Kay Andrews: Well, the book is uh, about a pair of sisters Long est Strange. They grew up in Savannah in a working class Irish Catholic family. Um, I grew up in a working class Irish Catholic family, but in Florida.

Um. Um, aristocracy and that the portrait is by a famous artist and it's worth a lot of money. And they don't really believe their mother, 'cause their mother is what we now call a fabulous. Um, but their mother, her last wish is that the sisters, and she saved money. She wants them to take a, take a road trip to Ireland, to, to really, to reconnect, but also to find out the truth about this portrait.

And it just happens that. Both of the sisters, their names are, uh, Maeve and Therese. And it happens that both of them are at a crossroads in their lives and they kind of don't have any choice. They have to do it. So they take a road trip to Ireland to find out the truth about this portrait, and they find out the truth about their family, and they find out the truth about themselves and they find love and very, both of them find love in unexpected places.

Daryn Kagan: Did you go

Mary Kay Andrews: Oh, yeah, yeah,

Daryn Kagan: yeah. Yes. As part of it. Excellent.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: Um, well I'm definitely looking forward to that.

You and I also share a love of the Georgia Coast.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yes.

Daryn Kagan: You with T Island. I love

Mary Kay Andrews: seeing those live oaks with the Spanish moss and the, uh, resurrection fern.

Daryn Kagan: We call this. Backyard.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: Um, we're about, um, 30 miles south of you in Macintosh County. Yeah. This would be a great setting for one of your books.

There's not this county, um, I don't know if you've been through here, but it's like, if you're going from

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. I know about

Daryn Kagan: Savannah

Mary Kay Andrews: County.

Daryn Kagan: Yeah. There's not even a single stoplight in the whole county.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: Um, it is another land. It is another place.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. Um, do

Daryn Kagan: you ever wanna come?

You know, was run by one politically connected family and, uh,

Daryn Kagan: the pops

Mary Kay Andrews: you don't, yeah, there used to be a country music song called, you Don't Go Hog Hunting in Macintosh County.

Daryn Kagan: I believe it. I think it was the most corrupt, it was considered the most corrupt county in the entire,

Mary Kay Andrews: yeah,

Daryn Kagan: in the entire country.

Um, there's a great book Praying for Sheet Rock.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: I dunno if you've ever read that one. I, um, I know

Mary Kay Andrews: I

Daryn Kagan: have.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah.

Daryn Kagan: It tells it. The incredible story of this place.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. And the, and a

Daryn Kagan: couple questions. Go ahead.

Mary Kay Andrews: I was gonna say, the author lives not far from me in Druid Hill.

Daryn Kagan: Yes. Another Atlanta. Um, yeah.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. And she's married to a very prominent, um, criminal defense attorney.

Daryn Kagan: Yes. Who's part of that Hava whole story unfolded and, yeah. Um. I would definitely recommend praying for sheet rock if somebody wants a great true mystery of how, um, political corruption got turned over. Um, couple questions I'd like to ask on all my calls.

Mary Kay Andrews: the friend of mine, that the world needs to know about? Oh gosh, I have. I have, um, so many. There's, you know, I'm thinking, uh, just because of the way of the world right now. Um, a woman, um, I don't know, maybe the people, um, who started helping Mamas.

Okay. Because they do, they do so much. Stephanie? Um, I can't think of,

Daryn Kagan: and Jamie?

Mary Kay Andrews: Yes. Jamie, yes. Uh,

Daryn Kagan: yeah. Yeah.

Mary Kay Andrews: They,

Daryn Kagan: we'll put a link to that organization in the

Mary Kay Andrews: show notes. They do so much. Yeah. Helping Mamas does a lot with a little, when I get depressed, I'll go to their website and donate some money.

Daryn Kagan: That's a great, that's a great fix It a great pick me up.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah. Sometimes, I mean, sometimes I'll do Habitat for Humanity. Sometimes I'll do Helping Mamas.

Mary Kay Andrews: Yeah, well, I'm reading Heather Cox Richardson's, um, newsletter to America. Um, my husband and I watch, uh, thrillers. So, um, you know, we're anxiously waiting for the next season of the diplomat to start.

Daryn Kagan: Have you watched, um, department Q? No. Oh, okay. That it's on, I'm gonna say Netflix. It's on Netflix. It's a Scottish mystery.

Mary Kay Andrews: Oh.

Daryn Kagan: Um, with some very dark, twisted kind of funny characters. I just Yeah. The characters. Yes. Department. QI

Mary Kay Andrews: just,

Daryn Kagan: I wrote

Mary Kay Andrews: it down.

Daryn Kagan: Department Q is by the same guy who wrote the queen's gambit.

Mary Kay Andrews: Ah,

Daryn Kagan: the chess. Yes. So if you like slow horses, you'll like Department Q.

Mary Kay Andrews: Perfect.

And that's just about, pushed about as scary as I can do. Yeah. In news, I could see anything and I could just, I could talk about the worst things in the world and just have not affect me. But in fiction, I can't. I can't, I can't. It's, I don't wanna be scared. I

Mary Kay Andrews: don't, I don't want, I don't want someone to jump out at me and scare me

Daryn Kagan: or nothing like that.

Mm-hmm. Well, I hope this was, this call wasn't too scary.

Mary Kay Andrews: No. No. Okay. Hope this was okay. Once we got the, once we got the, uh, technical glitches done, I've had, I've had a good time.

Daryn Kagan: That's so good. That's good. Well, I'm gonna link to all those things, um, to the new book coming up to the organizations and um, to all the things that you're recommending.

Thank you. Thank you. Just appreciate your time so much.

Mary Kay Andrews: Thank you.

Daryn Kagan: Thank you.

Mary Kay Andrews: Great to see you.

I mean, they're amazing bestselling authors on their own, but they came together during COVID to create the show, to support each other, to support independent bookstores. To do something positive and um, I just love it. So I've been introduced to her as Kathy, so it's kind of weird. I never knew if I was supposed to say Mary Kay, that didn't seem right, or Kathy, because she said I was talking to Mary Kay.

'cause she put on lipstick. Anyhow, both of them were great to have on and I'm particularly inspired by what she said as being 71, 72 years old and not giving a fuck anymore. Excuse my language or don't. That's something I'm really thinking about. I've always been kind of so careful and so measured. I'm a journalist.

Meanwhile, one opinion I do have is a big ask. I am this close, and by this I mean like so close to hitting the number of subscribers on YouTube that I need in order to monetize and frankly, being honest and vulnerable. I need to monetize this podcast if I'm gonna keep doing it. So one little free thing you can do to help me out.

If you are listening and watching on YouTube, if you would just subscribe. That little red box comes on when you start watching any of the videos of this podcast, if you just click it, it's free, and you would be a huge help. And even if you're listening on another platform, if you really wanna go the extra mile, go over to to, um, YouTube and find me over there and find this podcast and subscribe even if you never watch us over there.

You can also find me on all the social platforms, on, on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, you know, Twitter, all of it, LinkedIn. I'm kind of all over the place. I would love simply to be connected and to hear from you, an idea for a show, a question for asking for a friend. Or maybe just say, Hey, always great to hear from a listener.

Voice Over: Before you go Call me Friend is more than a podcast.

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