In this episode, Ali Kessler speaks with Corey Jentry, a survivor and advocate in the troubled teen industry. They discuss Corey's personal experiences in treatment, the flaws in the mental health system, and the long-term effects of misdiagnosis and labeling on young boys. Corey emphasizes the importance of understanding trauma, the role of peer pressure in treatment, and the need for qualified professionals in mental health care. He also shares insights on navigating life after treatment and offers advice for parents seeking help for their children.

• Corey Jentry shares his personal experience in the troubled teen industry
• The troubled teen industry often misdiagnoses and mislabels trauma as behavioral issues
• Peer pressure plays a significant role in treatment environments
• Many kids in treatment have experienced significant trauma
• Good treatment can save lives, while bad treatment can cause irreparable damage
• Education was a key factor in Corey's recovery and understanding of his past
• Parents should do thorough research before sending their children to treatment centers
• Kids are more resilient than we often give them credit for
• The mental health system has significant flaws that need addressing
• Corey advocates for accountability and reform in mental health care

About Corey Jentry

Corey Jentry is the founder of Jentry Consulting, an industry insider and advocate for accountability, safety, and reform in mental healthcare. He brings a rare and powerful perspective to his work—one shaped by both lived experience and academic expertise.

As a teenager, Corey was placed in a troubled-teen treatment program that promised healing but instead subjected him to coercion, control, and psychological harm. That experience became the foundation for his lifelong commitment to exposing systemic abuse and advocating for ethical, trauma-informed care.

Corey went on to earn a Ph.D. in Political Science from the London School of Economics, where he studied power structures, systemic violence, and conflict resolution. His academic work, combined with his personal experience, allows him to analyze the troubled-teen industry through both a human and structural lens.

He is the author of Selling Sanity: The Troubled-Teen Industry, the Insane Profits, and the Kids Who Pay the Price, a memoir and exposé that sheds light on a largely hidden, multi-billion-dollar industry profiting from vulnerable youth. Through consulting, speaking, and advocacy, Corey works to educate parents, professionals, and policymakers on recognizing red flags, protecting children, and pushing for meaningful reform.

https://www.jentryconsultingservices.com/about

@coreyjentry

About Ali Kessler: Ali Kessler is a writer, marketing professional, passionate parent advocate, and founder of Greyson’s Choice, a 501(c)(3) created to raise awareness about the risk of domestic abuse on children. Greyson’s Choice was founded by Ali Kessler in memory of her sweet, vibrant, and fearless 4.5-year-old son, Greyson, who was murdered by his biological father in a murder-suicide during an unsupervised, court-approved visit in Ft. Lauderdale, FL, in 2021. This came just hours after her petition for a domestic violence injunction was denied by a Broward County judge, citing that the “petitioner has failed to allege any overt acts by the respondent which would constitute domestic violence under Florida Statute.”

Ali’s advocacy efforts culminated in successfully passing Greyson’s Law during the 2023 legislative session. This bill now requires the court to consider threats against ex-partners or spouses when making child visitation and custody determinations in the court, expanding to include the following factors: evidence of domestic violence, whether a parent in the past or currently has reasonable cause to believe that they or a minor child is, or has been in imminent danger of becoming the victim of domestic/sexual violence by the other parent, even if no other legal action has been brought or is currently pending in court.

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Corey Jentry Podcast Episode 52

My guest today is Cory Jentry, founder of Jentry Consulting, an industry insider and advocate for accountability, safety, and reform in mental health care, and the author of Selling Sanity Corey brings a rare dual lens to the conversation, survivor and scholar. Together we explore how boys are emotionally socialized, how trauma is often mislabeled as behavior, and why so many vulnerable kids fall through the cracks of an unregulated, profit-driven system.

So hi, Corey. Welcome, and thanks for coming on today and talking with us.

Corey Jentry: Hi, Ali. Thanks so much for having me. It's a real pleasure to be here and talk with you and your audience.

Corey Jentry: Sure, yeah.

My name is Corey Jentry. I'm a treatment center survivor of what I like to call the troubled teen industry or what has been kind of labeled the troubled teen industry. I went into a troubled teen treatment facility when I was 15 years old, and I did not come out until I was 20. And, during that time I had the experience like a lot of, kids my age and at that time and have since moved on, of going into one of these treatment centers or one of these recovery facilities with a lot of fear, but also a lot of high hopes and expectations.

You know, you kinda go into these situations, I don't know any kid or any family member that ends up putting their child in one of these facilities just, you know, because. I'm sure it does happen, but-

Ali Kessler: What type of facility is it exactly, or was it?

Corey Jentry: Well, the place that I went into was, there was no real good way of describing it other than it, was a cult.

I mean, it was, it was very culty.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Ali Kessler: like mental health?

Corey Jentry: Is like a vast enterprise, but typically most of them work with kids that have, like, substance abuse or mental health issues. And in this case, I got diagnosed almost immediately with a substance abuse issue, despite having no real substance experience other than, you know, smoking cannabis and this and that.

But as was kinda typical in a lot of those environments you know, , it's very seductive, at least for young kids it is. At least the group that I was involved with, it was really based on this kind of AA notion of attraction rather than promotion. So they didn't really go around and, like, advertise.

But what they would do is they would get kids, and it- it's very common for treatment programs to do this now. But they'll get kids, they consider 'em alumni or people that are currently in their program, and they act as kind of unpaid, and unknowing in a lot of times, brand ambassadors for the treatment program.

So-

Ali Kessler: Right

And there's some logic to that.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: In the recovery world, they talk about changing your playmates, playgrounds, and-

Ali Kessler: Right. Right ...

Corey Jentry: play. And, there's a lot of 12 step recovery lingo for this kind of stuff that gets, that gets kind of clinically justified. But the reality, is there, there wasn't a whole lot of clinical makeup to the actual program that I was in to begin with.

It was sort of a Lord of the Flies situation- ... where it was like a lot of the, the kids kind of monitoring the kids, and then a lot of the, the counselors or the treatment professionals that were there were really kids themselves. I mean, these people- Right ... could hardly be considered any kind of legitimate professional with any kind of, you know, credentials that would stand on their own.

I-- Or they didn't target people like me. They tend not to go for the kids in the trailer park. They tend to go for the upper middle class ones in the- With the

Ali Kessler: money ...

Corey Jentry: yeah, with the money, and the, like, private golf communities and stuff like that. Right.

Ali Kessler: Tr- So what led to your placement in that program?

Like, you must have been really scared at 15.

Corey Jentry: God, I was terrified. Yeah. Well, it was funny because I got placed-- A friend of mine had went into the treatment center, and, whether, he did or did not need to be there was kind of, up for debate. But he was definitely the friend in my friend group that I think every friend group has 'em.

And, forgive me for saying it this way, but, um, you know, everybody kind of has the fuck-up friend in the friend group. You know, it's like the guy- Sure ... who always gets caught doing something. And he went into treatment, and then he came kinda popping around, and was doing what the treatment center wanted him to do, you know?

There were a lot of young teenage girls in the treatment program at the time who were all very young and cute, and they all come running up to you and give you a big hug, and they're like, "We love you, and we wanna hang out with you, and you're my new best friend"- Right ... and this and that. You know, to somebody like me, it was like, "Oh, okay."

Sure. "Sure."

Ali Kessler: Yeah. "

Corey Jentry: Let's,

Ali Kessler: - It's like camp

Corey Jentry: Yeah, it was like camp and it, it felt like, ... And they were like, "We just want you to, to hang out with us constantly."

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: We, you know, they got us to drop out of school. Wow. They told our parents, "Don't worry about education. Don't worry about any of that. If your kid..."

And you hear it a lot in the treatment world. I mean, - Right ... I, I've worked in treatment for, Jesus, 25 years now- Right ... or so. And, , and I mean, you hear it all the time. It's kind of a sales tactic or a pitch tactic that a lot of the counselors or treatment people will use. It's like, "Well, your kid can't go to Harvard if he's dead," or they can't go to this or that, you know?

So there's a real- Right ... emphasis on your child's gonna die or something terrible's gonna happen unless you, get them help.

Corey Jentry: So they

Ali Kessler: were- So do they continue your education inside?

Corey Jentry: No.

Ali Kessler: No. I mean, some- So you have to get your GED?

Corey Jentry: Some places do, and now I think with the kind of advent of a lot of stuff that's happened over the years, some of the programs now have these, like, education things.

But I mean, it's all- Right ... kind of the same. Right. It's, you know, usually some BS kind of online school thing where you, they'll let you, like sit with some tutor that they'll have in the treatment center, because I think they're legally required to have them.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: Now, most of them aren't certified teachers that are working in the- Right, right

treatment center. They're, they're kind of like the therapist. You know, a lot of these treatment programs, they, I call them the almost marriage and family therapist, - Right ... because they all have associates, so it's like a, they're not quite therapists yet. Right. Most of them are just sitting to collect their hours.

But that's kinda the makeup of a lot of these places. But- Right ... they're very effective salespeople. I mean, they know what they know what they've got. Right. They know the audience.

Or are there, does it depend on the institution probably?

Corey Jentry: I mean, I think the troubled teen industry as a whole, you know, honestly, the therapeutic residential gamut that we have going on in the country right now. You know, I do think there are some-- there are people definitely in those organizations that are, they just wanna help people, you know?

So they were, very rare , you might get like one or two in a state that would pop up here and there. And this was in, in the '90s, of course, when I was going through treatment in the like late '90s, and, but they were all cash pay, so it was very hard to keep up with them and stuff like that anyway.

treatment programs. So they'd meet some family and it would be like, "Dave's 15 and he's having trouble in school," and this and that. So, and these education consultants, and again, some of them are okay, and they're clinicians, and they have legitimate licensing and, and training. But a lot of them are just people that were like, "Oh, my kid was screwed up, and I sent him to this program, and he had a great time, so now I wanna go and do this for like other kids."

Right. And of course they go, they have means, so they go to other families that have means. So a lot of it is just kind of based on basic like, I hate to make it sound this way, but back then a lot of it was based on just kind of basic social networks and like-

Ali Kessler: Sure ...

Corey Jentry: social network networks. So it was like- Yeah

And now it's a little expensive, it's $40,000," or, whatever, "but, you know, we just really like it." And to a lot of these kind of upper middle class families or middle class families that it's not that it's not an - An inconspicuous amount of money or an insubstantial am- amount of money. It's just for them, they have the money, their kids are in, you know, distress, or they think their kids are, are really having problems, so it's kind of like, "Oh, my God."

And then you have some pseudo-professional that comes and a great example is for me. Now, I was, I was 15. These counselors were interviewing me. A lot of it is they were asking me, what would be in media or something like... My wife's a journalist.

Ali Kessler: Okay.

Corey Jentry: In media, they would call it, like leading the witness, or in, in- Right

corporate meetings it would be like leading the witness. It's like, "Oh, I love to get high, don't you?" You know? And- Right,

Ali Kessler: right ... just a lot of...

Corey Jentry: And, and- Sort of

Ali Kessler: gaslighting, too.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: And then the other thing was is that these people seemed really cool, and I just, knew how to play off of teenage insecurity. You just, you want people to like you, so.

Ali Kessler: Sure.

Corey Jentry: So the next thing I knew, I was like, oh, you know, and all kids do this. All kids do this. Any kid that's in treatment right now is doing this.

You know, they go through war stories and they talk about... A- and they lie. Everybody lie. That you exaggerate or you talk about more than you did or this than you did or whatever, and it's just part of what teenagers do. And, so I did it and they didn't ask me anything about my family.

They didn't ask me anything- Sure ... about my, mother's mental illness or her mental illness history, although I did talk about some of this. The only thing that happened after the end of this hour-long kind of meeting and interview with me is they told me they were gonna have to tell my parents, which I thought, "Oh, my God.

like, "I'm a complete basket case"? So

Ali Kessler: how did that experience impact your mental health and emotional development, like long-term as a young man?

Corey Jentry: Well, I mean, hearing that as a, in some ways as a 15-year-old, you know, young man from the Southeast who had, you know, and this was... I was from Grovetown, Georgia. My father was an electrician.

My mother was mentally ill. It wasn't like, I came from a, a highly emotionally astute and very aware family. My family was just really trying to get by a day at a time, like most people were. My dad was working two jobs. Some of it was to stay away from his crazy wife that he had at home.

So you know, I... It didn't take someone with a rocket science or a PhD to be like, "You know what, kid? You probably got a few screws loose because of just your family." And you know, I, I grew up watching my mother try to kill herself and kind of go in and out of institutions and stuff like that. And when she wasn't- Right

in institutions, she was like, abhorrently violent towards us. So, and you would've figured that a lot of these questions would've come up in like an initial treatment screening. But no, not at all. Sure. It was just like us kind of musing and talking and, and then they told me that I had this problem.

They were like, "Man, you're, you're so effed up." And-

Ali Kessler: Right ... "

Corey Jentry: Your family is so effed up, and you know what you are. You're an alcoholic and a drug addict." And I was like, "Okay. Sure." And I mean, I had done drin- I-

Ali Kessler: Right, right ...

Corey Jentry: done drugs and stuff like that at that point. I grew up in a very, , my family were very uneducated and very fundamentalist Christian, and I don't say that as any dig on uneducated people or the- Right

track way to go to hell, so you wanted to avoid that stuff. So I just thought "My God, this is it." Like, yeah. Right. And they were like, "Well, we can help you with that, but you gotta, like, you know-" Too, and they, and on top of that they were very conciliatory and they were like, "We love you."

And also they very much hung on this thing of like, "Dude, you're gonna die. And you're so-" Right "... screwed up that you don't even know you're screwed up, and the only person that has an answer for this is us." Right. And, they would say that a lot. Like, "Man, I know you. I know you." Right. "I get you." And they kind of had me hook, line, and sinker in that moment.

And also when you grow up in the environment that I grew up in with a lot of the problems that I grew up in, you grow up with this feeling thinking like there's something wrong. You know what I mean? I don't dress like the other kids dress. I don't look like the other kids look. My mom's always going in and out.

Ali Kessler: welcomed getting better- Like a- ... so to speak.

Corey Jentry: I would've been what they considered a prime candidate, yeah.

Ali Kessler: Right. Right. So when did you what did they actually do to help you?

Corey Jentry: I mean, aside from welcoming me in the group And really, in a lot of these treatment centers, particularly the troubled teen treatment centers, they're, in one way or another, th- they have a mission, and that the first component of that mission is to, they have an idea about you and what your problem is.

Most of that is informed by their worldview, so it's not informed by any kind of, like, clinical training-

Ali Kessler: Okay ...

Corey Jentry: or specialty education that they've had or whatever. A lot of it is- Right ... because they went through this group, they had this experience, and because of that, they get you. And so they're- Right

It's part of the developmental process. So kids are constantly modeling their environment around them. They're- Right ... assessing what's going on. They're assessing the people that are going on in that environment, and they're making a series of judgment calls based on that. Right. They're, they're deciding whether they fit into this environment, whether they don't fit into this environment.

But most importantly, they're deciding, like, okay, who I am in relation to this environment that I'm around.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: And that's where a lot of the push/pull and a lot of the, the kind of antagonistic relationships that teenagers and their parents develop a lot of times because-

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: when you're a child growing up, - you see your parents as God.

Right. And then when you're kind of a teenager, your parents kind of fall from grace. It's like, "Well, well, wait a minute, you're not God. You're actually just a really flawed, screwed-up person that is making this shit up as they go along," just like a lot of other parents are. These really- Right ... vulnerable, screwed-up people that, you know, kids don't come with an instruction manual.

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: in my case, I was very fortunate. I didn't experience any physical abuse.

I wasn't in these crazy wilderness camps where they would make you- Right ... hike until you passed out, and then they'd be like, "Okay, now you can eat after you whittle a spoon," which- Right ... how that's supposed to be therapeutic, I don't know. But, you know, whatever. But in mine, it was much more emotionally abused.

So the, the group used peer pressure, and a lot of places- Okay ... do this. It's very much like an AA kind of, a, a very- Right ... dream version of AA. But it's a lot of peer support pressure. So the, the idea behind it being like kids are gonna rebel against adults, which is true, but they're a lot more open to hearing suggestions and ideas from their peers.

So like for instance, one of my big problems in an identity thing was I, I was very poor and I had a mother that was very mentally ill. That had a lot of- Right ... emotional and a variety of different impacts. A child watching his mother try to commit suicide multiple times, a child watching his mother try to harm, physically harm him to the point of potentially death when he was a kid, that's like very traumatic stuff.

And it also has a very shaping effect on how you kind of see the world and-

Ali Kessler: Sure ...

Corey Jentry: most therapeutic programs would be like, "Okay, that's definitely what we call a big T trauma." Right ... and you know, the way that you try to approach that is you, uh, there are a variety of ways that you approach it, but you try to kind of unravel the web, and you basically wanna get the individual to a point where they have enough kind of confidence in themselves and they feel safe enough that they can start addressing and really looking at the issues that happened in their, uh, in, in their developmental phase, start labeling it- Right

Ali Kessler: that. Right. Well, I would think like cognitive behavioral therapy might be an option.

Corey Jentry: Cognitive behavioral therapy is one. , DBT is a really great way- Right

of, of kind of approaching that just from a physical standpoint of getting you- Yeah ... to actually sort of integrate what's going on. There's also a lot of, like, psychoanalytic and, - Right ... there's also, like, medications and medication-assisted- Well, yeah, yeah ... approaches that, that really can kind of help take- Yeah

the edge off of that. '

Ali Kessler: Cause trauma is its own thing. It's not, you know, just some kid is, you know, drinking and messed up. When you are going through something traumatic or you've witnessed something traumatic, it needs its own specialized care. I know this personally. I, my son was murdered. Sure.

And I, do see a trauma therapist, and- Absolutely ... we do specific things. So I feel like for them just blanketing you into this category you weren't labeled correctly, you weren't treated correctly. You know, I guess how often is trauma in boys misunderstood or mislabeled as- Yeah- ... you know, different kinds of problems?

And, you know, again, and I, I don't know anyone that gets into the industry or that is intentionally doing this as like, "I just wanna go out there and hurt kids." These individuals really do believe on some level that they're, like, helping, but the methods that they're using to try and help-

Ali Kessler: Right

Corey Jentry: end up causing a hell of a lot more prob... They end up causing more trauma and- Right ... re-traumatizing things. Because with a lot of young men, for instance, or not even young men, young women- Right ... I would say nine- 95% of the people that are in any of those treatment situations, 90% of those people have experienced some form of a traumatic episode in their life- Right

And you know, they had been smoking a little cannabis and doing this and that. Sure. They were doing what kids do, but basically, some kids got a little messed up and went swimming in a river, and one of the kids wasn't a good swimmer and he drowned. And, - Right ... one of them was his brother, and this kid that I was in treatment with, you know, he had scar- literal scars on his chest from his brother trying to save- Hold on

himself from drowning in the river. So as you can imagine, that has irreparable damage on a child. Right. Irreparable damage. As would, you know, me seeing my mother. And a lot of this stuff, they were really into, like, a- at least my program, they were very much into, like, radical accountability. So I remember going through, and this guy, , his name was Mike, and then some other folks sharing about these really crazy events that just went on in their life, and their approach to it would be like, "Dude, this is your, this is your shit.

So it was really this kind of like man up mentality. Right. And, this really like you need to... And there's a premise for this. It's like the only way that you're gonna get better is by helping other people. That's the only way that you're- Right ... gonna get better. And they always use this stupid analogy that you hear in airplanes.

It's like, "In the event of an unlikely emergency"- Yeah ... "and the mask falls"- Get

Ali Kessler: your oxygen, yeah ... "

Corey Jentry: put your oxygen on first, and then"-

Ali Kessler: And then help others ... like- Yeah ...

Corey Jentry: help the other people. But in there, it's kind of like, all right, just go help people. But again, particularly when you're working with kids and you're working with kids that are mentally fragile, they've had big T traumas or little T traumas, or they're just, like, going through it-

Ali Kessler: Right

Corey Jentry: you know, there, there's a method to go about doing that. That's why we have- Right ... schools is because they've perfected a

Ali Kessler: method

Corey Jentry: on how

Corey Jentry: Do you know how many doctors I saw in the five years that I was in that- I'm

Ali Kessler: assuming zero

Corey Jentry: Zero. Do you know how many ther- actual therapists, licensed therapists I went and saw? Zero

Ali Kessler: Zero. Right. Yeah. So I feel like this place or, places like them are probably not run legally.

Corey Jentry: Well, unfortunately, that's the problem, is a lot of them are now.

Yeah. So the in- and everybody likes to blame the insurance companies, but the reality is, is the insurance companies were g- were like, "Okay, sure. We have to cover- Right ... mental health care?" Like, "Yeah, we'll cover it."

Ali Kessler: It's not even mental health care if there's no mental health professionals.

Corey Jentry: Exactly. But then- So

Now, all of a sudden, these health insurance companies, now they're mandated to cover care, and because the health insurance companies, they didn't know what the hell... They, they, they looked at it like, like a medical thing, and they were like, "Oh, yeah. Okay." So it's, ... They were looking at emergency rooms, and like, if you go to an emergency room and you stay 24 hours in an emergency room, it's like $10,000 or something like that a night.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: And the treatment centers were like, "Well, we'll pay..." They went to the treatment centers and were like, "Hey, can you guys take care of these folks for like $3,000 or $4,000 a day?" And the treatment centers were like, "Yes, we can." Right, right. "Yes, we can." Because the treatment centers, they may have a doctor, but that doctor- Right

Right. And then maybe

Ali Kessler: they'll have- They're just there for

Corey Jentry: show. Yeah. And then they'll have maybe one therapist that's licensed, and then everyone else are these, what I call almost lic- , almost marriage and family therapists. So they're all these, like, associates. A lot of them are children themselves.

I mean, the counselors that I had were 21, 22 years old. I mean, what the hell did I know at 21, 22 years old? You know what I mean? And a lot of the qualifications now that a lot of these therapists have, I mean, they get them from these, like, buy a diploma online universities, and then they go and collect their hours at whatever, shoddy treatment center that they need to, like, collect their hours in.

So- Right ... there's a real problem in the industry. Now, having said that, there are some places that are doing really good work, and they- Sure ... they operate just like legit- like any legitimate, -

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: healthcare facility. Well, I

Corey Jentry: Well, and the funny thing is is that the thing that I've found, Ali, that is the most mind-boggling to me is that there's this kind of misnomer in American healthcare and, and everywhere where it's like the more money you spend on it, the better it has to be. Right. And that is kind of the most ridiculous thing that I've ever heard- Yeah

in my life. And I mean, well, I say I live in the rehab Riviera. Right. In LA, there are more treatment centers per square mile- Yeah ... than any- anywhere on the planet. I mean, I think there are over 1,700 treatment facilities in Southern California alone.

Ali Kessler: Wow.

Corey Jentry: So, it's a big business.

Ali Kessler: Right.

You know what I mean? Right. So a lot of these high-end treatment centers-- And the one that I went to, even though I was very poor, I was-- I don't know if I was fortunate or not. Right. But it was very well-to-do, so I mean- Right ... i, I'd-

Ali Kessler: Yeah ...

Corey Jentry: hang out in kids' living room that were bigger than my entire trailer.

And I, I-- This one guy's yard was bigger than the trailer park that I lived in. It was, insane. So-

Ali Kessler: So you said you were there until you were 21?

Corey Jentry: Uh, so I was there from the time I was 15 until I was 21. And I was surrounded by- So you were-- Yeah, so you were

Ali Kessler: already legally an adult when you left.

Mm-hmm. And you hadn't finished your high school degree, correct?

Corey Jentry: No, and this is, this is another big problem. So I was 20 when I got out of the treatment center, and they just graduated us. And coming- Did you

Ali Kessler: feel healthy-

Corey Jentry: No ... at the time? Oh my God, no. I was terrified.

Ali Kessler: Okay.

It's like, "Oh my God, we're family. We're all gonna come," and they have graduation ceremonies and stuff like that. Right. And because I went to, like, an affluent treatment center-

Ali Kessler: Yeah ...

Corey Jentry: I mean, I got out and got my picture taken and a little thumbs up, and that was it. But, like, I mean, I knew guys that were graduating treatment, and their dad bought them, like, a new Bentley and stuff like-- I mean, it was just- Oh my goodness

like insane for graduating rehab. Right. So I graduated rehab, but unlike a lot of them, I didn't have any money. Had no education. No education- Right ... other than, like, about a fifth- Well,

Ali Kessler: you got your PhD, so tell us how, how-- what came about after.

Corey Jentry: Yeah, so I, I got out. There was no, no educa-- I had nothing.

I had nothing. My-- I had no family support. I had no friends, because-

Ali Kessler: Okay ...

Corey Jentry: in those treatment centers-- And this is pretty consistent, too. They don't want you having friends outside of the, the thing. So while you're there, you're just there. So you're only-

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: hanging out. You're eating. You're sleeping.

You're working. You're living. You're dating. Yeah. It's all in the treatment center, and your whole life- Did you talk

Corey Jentry: Periodically. Periodically. But most of the time in the treatment centers, they're telling you, "Man, your parents don't get it. They don't know what's going on," or, you know, "They're part of the, they're part of the problem."

So I got out, and I was just utterly terrified, and the best that they tell you to do is to go to AA meetings. And at this time I w- I was 20. I had never taken a legal drink of alcohol in my life, so I was like, "What the hell am I gonna go to an AA meeting for?" And I don't know if anyone had ever- Yeah

I had never been to an AA meeting before, so when I went, I was like, "What is this?" You know? Right. There were, like, homeless people, and there was a schizophrenic in there that kept punching himself in the head, and I was like, "Holy shit, what is this?" You know? And, I, I had never seen, and these guys were like, "I'm powerless over alcohol, and I can never drink again," and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So I started going to AA meetings. And and AA is r- really, you see, if you've been through treatment and then you go to AA and, and the 12-step place, which is fine. I mean, AA is a great- Right ... it's a fine place. It works for a lot of people. But I mean, it is really, It's a rough, it's a rough getup over there, you know?

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: And it's not really a place that I would want as an adult and someone who wants to have children and stuff like that, and I have nieces. And an AA meeting in an AA area is the last place in the world I'd want my kids just, hanging out and being like, "Oh, I grew up in AA." Right, right. It's not the kind of place.

But they were telling me that I was powerless over alcohol, that I had this, like, debilitating disease, that I was gonna die, blah, blah, blah. I didn't hear any- Even

Ali Kessler: though you were just in a treatment center for five years or so?

Corey Jentry: Yeah, and I

Ali Kessler: had long- Like, you didn't have alcohol there ...

Corey Jentry: and I had longer clean time than, like, a majority of the people in AA, 'cause I, I hadn't- Right

So going into AA, it was oddly familiar to me, too, because I knew about the 12 steps. I knew about this. I knew about that. They just had their own kind of fundamentalist bent on it. But the AA meetings- Right ... that I went to, they all have fundamentalist bents to it, too. I mean, the, there was no difference between, like, these, some of the Pentecostal churches that I grew up in and, like, AA meetings.

I mean, that level- Right ... of kind of fundamentalism exists there. So you just kind of... Because at the time I thought, like, "Oh my God, I don't wanna die," so, like, you just embrace it. Yeah. And I had a lot of, uh, what turned out to be-- 'Cause in, in fundamentalist AA just like in a lot of these treatment centers, they were very anti-medication.

I did, I ran into some doctors that, that helped me out, and they got me on medication, which was probably the first thing that like- Right ... saved, kept me from killing myself at least, 'cause I, I was- Yeah ... pretty suicidal at that time. And then I started slowly seeing a therapist. And then, but m- most importantly for me was I got an education.

They encouraged me. Right. I think the best thing that happened to me during that time was I started, uh, going to, doing what I needed to do. I got my GED, and then- Right ... I started going to community college, and I, I got... Oddly enough, I, I got interested in these terrorism classes at, uh, this community college that I was, that I was going to at the time.

And, I mean, go figure. We were learning about- Right ... like fundamentalism and how these people... And I was like, "Oh my God"- Right ... "this makes total sense to me." Yeah. "I know this."

Ali Kessler: Surprised you didn't major in psychology.

I mean, around that time, 9/11 was obviously, and we were, we had been in Iraq for a little while, I think a year- Yeah ... at that time, or a year or two at that time. Yeah. So, like-

Ali Kessler: No, it's crazy what, what's going on. My son's father was in a cult called The Moonies, and it brainwashed him.

Corey Jentry: The Moonies?

Where?

Ali Kessler: The Moonies. He was in New York at the time, so I didn't know him. Oh, wow. But it brainwashed him and-

Corey Jentry: There's a, the reason I say that, there's a big, treatment center that's owned by The Moonies in Georgia, and I was like, "Oh my God." But anyway.

Ali Kessler: Well, I mean, yeah, it definitely contributed to mental health issues that he had later in life that led him to murder our child and then kill himself.

Corey Jentry: Yeah. God, that is just, that's just terrible.

Ali Kessler: It definitely is. You know, cult-like behaviors, made his brain not trust humans and making, you know, made his whole world of thinking not a reality.

Since then I've done three masters, a PhD. I've lived all over the world kind of studying radicals, radicalization. It was the, the emphasis for my book actually. Um, and when I was doing my PhD research and, and kind of coming out from this, one of the things that I got a lot from, a lot of trauma therapy and psychoanalytic therapy, I've done a lot of therapy, as one might imagine, from this, and kind of working in the treatment industry and just studying this, the kind of sociology of knowledge, for lack of better words, around-

Ali Kessler: Right

Corey Jentry: This treatment world is there are unbelievable overlaps between fundamentalist religion

Ali Kessler: Mm-hmm

Corey Jentry: Cults and this kind of treatment world are components of- Right

so it's just this, like, patchwork of-

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: under and over-complicated regulations that just make everyone, uh, a lot less safe, in my opinion. It makes it a lot harder to track and trace these treatment programs. It makes it a lot harder to keep up with, like, licensure and stuff like that. I mean, it's just, if there was ever an industry that was ripe for exploitation, it's this industry.

Right. It's this. And I think-

Ali Kessler: Which is where your book comes in.

Corey Jentry: Yeah, my book,

Ali Kessler: and I- Selling Sanity.

Corey Jentry: And I think a lot of other people, I mean, I, I wrote my book mostly out of, when I got out of my PhD program and I, I got through studying this stuff, and I studied terrorism specifically. So I, I was really interested in, like, radicals and how radicals in different areas become radical because it was very clear to me when I got out of the treatment center, I mean, even people in AA were like, "Yo, this kid is kooky."

Ali Kessler: got issues.

Corey Jentry: And I remember this old guy in AA after I got through, ranting about something after I got out of the treatment center. The guy looked at me and was like, "Man, you are fucking brainwashed.

Do you know that?"

Ali Kessler: Yeah. And I was like- Yeah.

Corey Jentry: It's- And I, I remember feeling- It is ... so proud about that. You know, it was like, "I just get it." And, and I was completely indoctrinated, and it was kind of, , I mean, it was traumatic realizing that that reality that you lived in- Was,

Ali Kessler: right ...

Corey Jentry: for so long- False ... was false.

Yeah. I mean, that the things- Right ... that you believed, your worldview,

Ali Kessler: everything- So how did you break it? How did you break that line of thinking?

Corey Jentry: The thing that helped me, honestly, was education. I mean, I- Okay ... I can't think of anything other than, other than that. Like, the biggest thing that helped me with that was being exposed to a world that was much, much bigger than mine.

And in a lot of ways, that's the scariest thing that I've ever done. I mean I really wish I could express how terrifying it was. Because when you're in there-

Ali Kessler: Right ... you

Corey Jentry: can't-

Ali Kessler: You're in a bubble

Corey Jentry: You're in

Corey Jentry: You can't ex- you really, words can't the closest thing to it that I've ever seen that kind of explains what it was like for us in the group is, have you ever seen that movie, The Beach, with Leonardo DiCaprio?

It was like The Beach. It's like you get kind of swept away to this alternative- Right ... universe and environment where everybody's your friend, money doesn't matter, you do what you want when you want. There's this, like, crazy life philosophy. You're all living together. It's all, like, you know, love and this and that and whatever.

But it's all based on a lie. It's all founded on this, like, collective lie. So then when you come out of that world and you're kind of in the real world, it was like... I mean, I remember being around... 'Cause i- in the group, it was like you can't have casual sex. That was like there, there's no ca- you only are in a relationship, and they had all these weird, ritualistic things that you had to do to get in a relationship.

get in the re- I mean, it was really, like, talk about, like- Right ... control. So but, like, everything in there was safe. It was like e- Right ... and everybody told everything, everything, and you could trust everyone with everything. So when you come out of that environment and then you're around people- Right ... that, you know, it, it can be very difficult.

Ali Kessler: Yeah.

Corey Jentry: And,

Ali Kessler: uh- You gotta relearn how to live.

Corey Jentry: Yeah, you gotta- So to speak ... relearn how to live. The world feels, like, really unsafe, and most importantly is you don't have any of the skills necessary-

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: to navigate that kind of- To set up ... a world. So I, as soon as I could and I got my wherewithal together I moved to Europe, was probably the best way, because I-

Ali Kessler: Yeah.

I- I was gonna say probably travel is a first, you know, firsthand experience that you can have is to sort of see things on your own.

Cool. And that was really what sa- honestly, I think that's kind of the thing that saved my life because-

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: even after getting out of the cult and all of that stuff, it, it's just so hard to explain it to people, particularly in your immediate world- Mm-hmm ... when you're there. So I moved to Europe, and I think honestly the thing that got me through it was the fact that I moved to a place that was so secular, and- Right

and I went to, like, a very good prestigious school, and I was, like, the token American. And honestly, being over there kind of took the shame out of a lot of it because I, I remember I would, like, I would tell people in the US about it, and they were like, "Man, what the hell is... Like, what is, like, what is, what is wrong with you?"

Right. "Like, that sounds crazy." But then when I got over to Europe, I would start talking about it, and my European friends were like, "Oh, that's so American. That's so-"

Ali Kessler: Right. "

Corey Jentry: This would never happen over here." Different world. Right. 'Cause it would never happen over... It would never happen- Yeah ... anywhere except for in America.

Ali Kessler: Yeah.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: And I don't wanna say I dealt with it, 'cause I, I think- Right ... in a w- in a lot of ways I had to kind of put it down and pursue something else- Sure ... first, which, uh, which I think is actually a very healthy thing to do.

But I was in an environment where I was safe. It was super secular. I was going to even, like, recovery meetings and stuff in Europe, which gave me, like, a whole- Right ... new view on a bunch of different things, but it took years. I mean, little by little. It was like-

Ali Kessler: Sure ...

Corey Jentry: your defenses just have to slowly go down- Yeah

and unfortunately-

Ali Kessler: And it'll probably take the rest of your lifetime really to, you know, you'll constantly- Forever ... be learning and growing and evolving. Yeah, forever. I mean, so your, your book, Selling Sanity, you expose the inner workings, you know, of the troubled teen industry, like you said. Now, after writing it, what do you want parents or and professionals to understand, and what actions do you hope listeners will take after hearing all of this?

Ali Kessler: Right.

Yeah. Well ...

Corey Jentry: bad treatment will screw you up-

Ali Kessler: I feel like that's common sense ...

Corey Jentry: for the rest of your life. But,

Ali Kessler: Yeah

Corey Jentry: You know, good treatment, good behavioral health with qualified professionals has saved my life. I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for those individuals. Absolutely. And at the same point, like unqualified bad behavioral health has really done a lot of probably irreparable damage in my life and the lives of a lot of other kids- Yeah

who are now adults or, whatever. But I

Ali Kessler: always- I know I've talked to a lot of parents that their kids are getting sent to reunification camps, which are these sort of places where they go and sort of rehab your kids to sort of have a better relationship with their parents because they're went through a divorce and they're sort of brainwashing them, and they're getting banned in a lot of states.

Corey Jentry: Yeah, I mean, it's really-- What I, I think the thing that I tell that when parents are like, "Oh, well, where, where should I send my kid to residential treatment?" That's always like one of the fir- Right. And my honest answer to

I- ... not schools, but programs

Corey Jentry: I wouldn't even-- I wouldn't send my kid, like, unless there are very rare circumstances where, like, sending your kid away somewhere for that period of time is a necessity.

The honest reality is, is like most of what is happening with kids and teenagers can, and honestly should be dealt with in an outpatient setting. Because- Right ... my problem with the residential thing is, is of course there are certain, like- Right ... high acuity-

Ali Kessler: Circumstance, yeah ...

Corey Jentry: addictions and circumstances or kids that have, like, really horrific mood disorders or, or violent behaviors.

I went to, to treatment. I knew kids like that, and they could have- Yeah ... really benefited from proper lockdown-

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: care and psychiatric medication.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: But-

Ali Kessler: Sure ...

Corey Jentry: you know, a lot of these behavior modification places and a lot of the stuff that you're talking about, it's really trying to get someone to be quiet by, like-

Ali Kessler: Yeah

Corey Jentry: duct taping their mouth shut-

Ali Kessler: Yeah ...

Ali Kessler: I'm just gonna say whatever you want me to say.

Corey Jentry: Yeah, I'm gonna beha- But, but you're not really- You can't fake a tran- because what w- the goal that a lot of these people have, and a lot of it comes from this AA doctrine and the 12-step doctrine, is it's this notion of transformation, that you're somehow gonna go through this process and that you're gonna come out of it a different human being than you were on the in.

And they talk about it a lot. It's like being reborn. And a lot of it comes from- Right ... like Christian doctrine and stuff like that. But honestly, a lot of it is just complete BS. Yeah. It's like what are some, with a lot of parents that I, I, and I, I work with parents all the time. I'm not a- Right

clinician. I don't treat kids. But, I work mostly for free with parents that are- Right ... have kids that are doing this. And I either help them research the programs that they need to-

Ali Kessler: Right ...

Corey Jentry: get in, that they, you know, need to be looking at, or I just help them ask questions-

Ali Kessler: Right ... about stuff.

Corey Jentry: Yeah. I mean, if your kid is legitimately suicidal or if you're really afraid that your kid is gonna either harm himself or harm somebody else- Yeah

you should send that, you should send him to a hospital. Right. Not a treatment center, not a- Right ... you know, whatever. If you feel that your child is in immediate harm of hurting himself or someone else, they need to be in a hospital. You need to call the police, and they need to detain them- Right ... and put them-

Ali Kessler: Baker Act maybe?

Corey Jentry: Yeah, Baker Act, something like that. But, but I, I always recommend with families, it's like, not make long, do not make s- decisions that are gonna have long-term impacts on you and your kid based on temporary feelings- Right ... and emotions and circumstances. You know? Of course, some kids are just... You know, I was a bad kid.

Ali Kessler: Okay ...

Corey Jentry: a good qualified therapist-

Ali Kessler: Okay.

So ...

Corey Jentry: and some outpatient resources. Right. The biggest, the two biggest things though are family, a good family therapist-

Ali Kessler: Okay ...

Corey Jentry: that will hold the parents and the kids accountable. Sure. Because a lot of times parents think they're the s- Right ... what they're doing is, is what they need to do. Is helping. Right.

And a lot of times these therapists and these programs will just placate to everybody because they want it, they don't wanna piss you off- Right ... if you're paying them.

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: You know? But like a good, a good therapist and a good family therapist will really piss you off, but they will also save your life.

Ali Kessler: But they'll get the job done. Yeah.

Corey Jentry: Yeah. They're gonna tell you a bunch of things that you really do not wanna hear, and you're probably gonna hate, hate 'em and wish death on 'em. But like they'll, they'll tell you a lot of things- Right ... that are like really helpful. And kids are supposed to be dickheads. I don't know a better way of- Yeah.

Ali Kessler: I mean ...

And as soon as the boat- Yeah ... starts going like-

Ali Kessler: Right.

Corey Jentry: There's a problem ... everybody freaks out. Right. Yeah. And it's like that's, your kids are supposed to throw fits, they're supposed to do stupid things. They're probably gonna get arrested for doing something. Right. You know? And it's like they're gonna get

Ali Kessler: hurt.

It's normal behavior.

Corey Jentry: Yeah. And it- it's like there's a big difference between... And kids do drugs, they experiment. Sure. Yeah. And I, I totally get it with like fentanyl and all that stuff-

Ali Kessler: Yeah ...

Corey Jentry: that's out there now. So there, there is a need. But I have found that most parents By trying to pro- protect their children from all of these things- Right

they end up just exposing them and harming them that much more. And it doesn't mean that you should throw your kids into these situations and just be like, "Ah, do what you want," and whatever. But I think there's this fear that a lot of loved ones, family members have with their kids, and it's, like, people are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for.

Ali Kessler: Sure.

Corey Jentry: You know, and kids are- Yeah ... a lot more durable. Especially

Ali Kessler: kids.

Corey Jentry: Yeah.

Ali Kessler: Yeah.

Ali Kessler: Yeah. No, it's true. And, I mean, kids are resilient. They, they go through a lot, but they learn to adapt much better than I think adults do. So now, if our listeners wanted to get in touch with you, how should they do so?

Corey Jentry: Yeah, you can get in touch with me anytime on X. I, I keep wanting to call it Twitter, but X.

Any social media, I'm very, very active on LinkedIn. They can visit my website.

Ali Kessler: I'll put all of that in the show notes. I'll put your website and your, your handles.

Corey Jentry: Yeah.

Ali Kessler: And- Show

Corey Jentry: the handles ...

Ali Kessler: a link to your book?

Corey Jentry: A link to my book would be fantastic. Okay. And to my website would be great as well.

Ali Kessler: Pressure, right.

Corey Jentry: Don't. Yeah. Unless it's, like, a doctor or a therapist- Right, right ... saying like, "Look, I'm really concerned, and you should-" Right ... "do X, Y, and Z." But the reality is, is doctors and therapists aren't gonna tell you to go to a specific treatment center. They're just gonna tell you to start looking for, and they will help with that.

So listen to your healthcare professionals.

Ali Kessler: Your gut.

Corey Jentry: And your gut. And your gut, and do your homework. Look into these places like you would a college- Yeah ... kid.

Ali Kessler: Yeah. 'Cause

Corey Jentry: it's gonna have

Ali Kessler: way more- I mean, that's what I would do, for sure. Well, thank you so much for your courage and your honesty and using your voice to protect kids and educate parents.

And I appreciate you talking with us about a time that was probably very difficult. So- You're very generous ... you know, I appreciate all that you're doing now, and yeah, thank you.