Shownotes
We dive deep into matters that affect our everyday Ohio lives.
Wayne National Forest proposes changing the name to Buckeye National Forest
Progressive Insurance sued for 'patently unlawful' racism by offering $25,000 grants to help black-owned businesses buy vehicles but ruling out whites, Asians, Latinos, and others
Post Malone and Nickleback Cashed In On Congressional COVID Funds
Criminal charge filed in fatal Springfield, Ohio school bus crash
High School Poses New Race and Admissions Challenge for U.S. Supreme Court Justices
And, Norm's Nuggets
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Transcripts
You were laughing about it.
Steve Palmer [:I was like, I thought you were joking. And I, you said, no. I'm serious or I'm gonna sing, the weight. I'll do it acapella. He threatened to do it acapella, which we couldn't No. but nonetheless, we, he had developed a little satire. I mean, it's sort of like a weird al norm over there.
Norm Murdock [:There we go. Nah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go.
Brett Johnson [:It should
Steve Palmer [:change. Weird Al Murdock. Yeah. And, come up.
Brett Johnson [:Weird Al Murdock. There we go. Yeah. I don't
Norm Murdock [:know, man.
Steve Palmer [:So aside from that little,
Norm Murdock [:Or Abi normal.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Abi normal. Yeah. Aside from that soft start, we're gonna give into common sense Ohio show.com where you can check us out. And, obviously, that that performance is worthy of, of further, press or, preservation. So I think we're gonna put that up on the website. We'll we'll we'll we'll cut that out.
Brett Johnson [:Awesome. Rough
Norm Murdock [:video. Oliver Anthony in inspired that. You know, that the guy out in the woods singing to like twenty people and then that that song just went nuts and he got offered 8,000,000 bucks to go commercial. Oliver take it. Mhmm. Get that get that 8,000,000 bucks, buddy. You do a lot of good with that. Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Well, so that performance is, timeless, but, the show is not. It must go on. And, it's it's time now to to to hit it where we're gonna cover the common sense news or at least give a common sense viewpoint on the news or try to Norm, where are we starting, man? There's so much going on in the world.
Norm Murdock [:There is there is a bunch going on and including here in Ohio. So we can bounce off some of these I just found out from a press release from JD Vance that, the department of the your plans to rename Ohio's Wayne National Forest, the Buckeye National Forest. And the reason is because general Matt Anthony Wayne, right? it was a revolutionary war hero. he was appointed by then president Washington after the revolution to head up the army and put down, Indian uprisings to protect the settlers. And because And that and of course, you know, it's not real history is not dances with wolves where, you know, the Indians are all good guys and The white people are all bad guys. The real life is more complicated. There were atrocities committed. You know, if you read the the frontiersmen, you know,
Steve Palmer [:Alan Eckert? because I'm, yeah, a great series of books.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, if you read about what really happened as, obviously, Europeans moved further west and encroached on the native tribes. The native tribes
Brett Johnson [:weren't that necessarily nice to each other much less to the encroaching
Norm Murdock [:Europeans. and the Europeans weren't necessarily very nice to them either. It broke a lot of treaties. So it's very complex. It's the the the horrible things that happened on both sides and you know, skin was flayed and people were burned and people were hung and shot and all kinds of horrible stuff. So
Steve Palmer [:-- What's what's the the --
Norm Murdock [:They wanna take they wanna they, you know, like pushing debt. It's like shoving a statue over essentially is what the Biden administration wants to do in Ohio. And eliminate Matt Anthony Wayne, general Wayne, eliminate that history and and go with the PC, you know, just It's the Buckeye national for it.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, look, on its face, do I really care if we call it Wayne, or do we call it Buckeye in always a reason. So, you know, there's
Norm Murdock [:we're gonna
Steve Palmer [:rename things, but to to get rid of it because of that is is is just and even then, I I don't mind not honoring people that weren't honorable, but I might not I mind the way they do it. You know, it's like because what they're doing is replacing history. You can't get rid of history. you can't and and if you do, if you try -- Right. -- you know, it's not like somebody hasn't tried that in the last century and it resulted in, like, 300,000,000 deaths. You know, Stalin was like that was in in in China does that crap?
Norm Murdock [:Well, when it advances
Steve Palmer [:-- -- eliminate all the Chinese heritage.
Norm Murdock [:And Vance's letter, he goes through the it's really a pretty good letter. It's like a 2 pager. and he goes through the history. and he and he basically points out that there is no, like, pogrom or it there isn't any kind of, you know, war crime or anything that Matt Anthony Wayne is supposed to have done. the contention by the department in of the interior is that just because he was fighting Indians.
Steve Palmer [:Because it happened, we canceled
Norm Murdock [:It it it well, he's emblematic. Right? So so it's because he's emblematic of a bigger, you know, kind of change in America at that period of time that we should decredential
Brett Johnson [:him. And it's it took, well, I mean,
Norm Murdock [:if they're doing that with Thomas Jefferson and Abraham link, I mean, they're doing it with mainstream heroes of our country. and pulling down statues of Ben Franklin and just it's it's outrageous.
Brett Johnson [:So I'll have to rename Fort Wayne, Indiana.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. There you go. Right.
Steve Palmer [:We're going to rename it all. I mean, this is what's happening. Columbus is gonna be might as well change Columbus.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Washington DC will have to change the team because something about Washington is not good.
Steve Palmer [:Well and, you know, like, so much in in, you know, you look back at history in that history in a like, if you just focus in on it, you can find, like you said, Norman, find good history and bad but look at the cultures that have sort of emerged as a result of it. You know, it's like there's, it's not like, life wouldn't go on if, you know, it's like the stuff was gonna happen in the world. It always has. And the cultures meld. You know, we have the half of South America or how much of South America speaks Spanish. You know? And it's like, and now we honor the the the Hispanic heritage to the point where Like, somehow they get favor, but they were conquerors also. You know, it's like the there's cultures melded and then become 1. And, you know, that's just life. That's what happens. That's how that's how things emerge. That's how history happens.
Norm Murdock [:that there is blowback to all of this that so I I wish I knew, you know, I don't watch sports center and all that. I'm not obsessed with football and baseball, but I have heard.
Steve Palmer [:Only satire musical satire.
Norm Murdock [:Right. And racing. So I I have heard though that there is a native American, derived group, that is petitioning, to to rename the Washington football team back to the Redskins. Yeah. I mean, that is that is a thing that just came across my radar this past week that that Nate Native Americans are like, hey. You know, Well, you you named these teams after something you thought was fierce and noble and tough And
Steve Palmer [:-- It is a hat tip. Not a not a criticism. And and look around Ohio. Going back to Ohio, it's like there's so much kind of heritage going on, like our cities, our our counties, our rivers.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:it's just, I mean, heck, we still down in Chilacothi. by the way, around the country, if you ever buzz through Ohio and run through Ross County. Go check out the Cumpsum. It's, that they're still doing that. Oh, that is.
Norm Murdock [:That's incredible. That's really good. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And right here in Ohio, we had leather lips. We have Takumpso. We have --
Norm Murdock [:Blue jacket.
Steve Palmer [:We have, Indian mounds all over. Flintridge is, you know, it's like, we I don't think people are are disrespectful of the heritage at all
Brett Johnson [:around Ohio. In fact, my wife, I don't know what what
Steve Palmer [:percent of her is a Cherokee. But anyway,
Brett Johnson [:you know, it's like there's
Steve Palmer [:it's it's around. It's everywhere. And it's but the cultures have sort of become merged. And, you know, it sucks. The history is horrible, and we can learn from it that, you know, if if you go read about the trail of tears and all the all the treaties that we didn't honor and the slaughters that occurred, Like you said, normally, it was there it was a war. It was a war. Absolutely. And and, you know, a good or bad or ugly. It was a war. in the in the tribes, various native tribes were fighting again. Like, it wasn't all their land either. It was somebody's land. They took it from that person, that tribe, and then somebody else took it. So who's is it really? You're gonna give it back to now.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:You know, and if not our culture and our western society, Then what do you propose we replace it with? That these are always the questions I ask. You don't like the constitution, show me the places you would change it. and you get crickets, you know, and most people frankly haven't even read it. Let alone know where to change it. They just they're they're taught that it's bad, and that's what that's what this is a reflection.
Norm Murdock [:Right. It's it's it's more cancel culture in terms of history. And and, you know, you wonder, well, what do the kids learn in school anymore? is it just, you know, America bad? Like, like, a whole a whole year. That's
Steve Palmer [:what they learn.
Norm Murdock [:America bad. Right. You know? And, like, if that is your viewer, And I'm not saying to teach history like America Good. Just teach reality.
Brett Johnson [:You know, just teach what just
Norm Murdock [:teach what really happened.
Steve Palmer [:what happened and and why and
Norm Murdock [:all sides of it. All sides.
Brett Johnson [:And allow each student to come up with their own view of what America is. That's kind of our uniqueness is that we have the voice to either like dislike or whatever.
Steve Palmer [:I'll go a step further. I have got no problem. Teaching American Exceptionalism. I've got no problem with it. you know, I'm not saying whitewash history nor am I saying you shouldn't teach certain history. But if you wanna compare cultures and what civilizations have done over the years, ours is it is not the worst. It's not even close to the worst. You you know, it might even be the best.
Norm Murdock [:So Steve, I would teach what you're talking about in a course called citizenship. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Right? Which would
Norm Murdock [:be all of the, you know, The evolution of where we are in terms of human rights in America and what citizenship entails and how great that is and how exceptional America is. But in terms of history, hey, man. You know, I would teach reality. I would teach what really happened. You know, the mistakes that led up to the Iraqi war, you know, April glass be kind of winking at Saddam Hussein and saying, well, you know, what you do with a Kuwait kinda your business. And then he invades Kuwait and we're shocked about it.
Steve Palmer [:So these are analytical. This is
Norm Murdock [:So teach reality, we made some mistakes as a country and as a government. And then we went in and defended Kuwait. Right? So,
Steve Palmer [:yeah, it's just shocking to me.
Norm Murdock [:It's reality.
Steve Palmer [:whenever whenever you really get into this, you you really start to you start to drill down on what the quote they really are saying because Are they are they trying to usher in their own version of a utopia? And do they do they really think that after all these thousands of years of human civilization, a modern civilization on the planet that that they are gonna be able to do it. Like, you're gonna create the utopia that is here too for -- Right. -- been unattainable. But only if you had the power, only if you had total control of the purse strings, only if you had total control of the military and everything else, you could force these ideals down and usher in the utopian goals and and get rid of human nature. It's like it's so patently absurd.
Norm Murdock [:Sure. And and what it leads to as things like the Obama apology tour. When he first took office, he he goes around the world and he's bowing to despots and dictators and apologizing for America. And we're and I'm like, really? So World War 1, World War 2, the Cold War millions of people are alive today. 1,000,000,000, maybe because of America, because of our medicine, and our technology.
Steve Palmer [:We salute a flag. Some believable solute a flag. We we don't salute in, a swastika.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know?
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So that's, just think about that. And and you know, I something else to think about that that always is, amazing to me. There's there's a few instances in history where people with power gave it back. And, you know, when we were in Europe saying, well, we'll still go back. Go back to, George Washington.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Fascinating history. Like, they wanted him to be king. And he bowed out. He said, nope.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [: , more modern times, like, in: Norm Murdock [:we have the bomb.
Steve Palmer [:We had the bomb. We just defeated the greatest military power on the planet on
Norm Murdock [:both sides. Yeah. On both theaters.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. In both theaters. And, what did we do? We pulled back.
Norm Murdock [:And we rebuilt both countries.
Steve Palmer [:We we we pulled back and rebuilt the we did not We gave them money.
Norm Murdock [:Confer the Marshall plan
Steve Palmer [:and take. And we easily could have. We could have gone right to war with the Soviet
Norm Murdock [:Union. Absolutely.
Steve Palmer [:Over over complete control of the entire world.
Norm Murdock [:Just dropped bombs.
Steve Palmer [:And and we had it. They didn't. We could have had it. We could have taken it. We didn't do And so, look, is everything else perfect because that because of that? No. It's not perfect because of that.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:But it's nothing is perfect yet.
Norm Murdock [:Pan Panama Canal. We gave it back.
Steve Palmer [:We gave it back. That that was dumb.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, you know, and and we have this continuing conversation. with with the people in places like, you know, well, Philippines, we gave back Subic Bay. We have this ongoing conversation with Puerto Rico. Right? At any time, Puerto Rico can bail out and no longer be a territory of the US. they get to vote on it. And and we're like, you you wanna be up
Steve Palmer [:to you.
Norm Murdock [:It's up to you. Right? And we would give back Puerto Rico. It would become its own know, sovereign country if it wanted to be.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It it just is it it's such a it's such a disingenuous discussion -- to bring up only the bad things and none of the good.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And say because of these bad things, they're so bad that we should destroy everything else that's good about this country. It's it's insanity. You know? And it's a it's actually it's actually it's actually devious insanity. It it it's it's it's got some devious motives behind it, I think. Not that everybody who believes it is that way, but there's an ideology behind it that is intent on destroying The Western Civilization.
Norm Murdock [: is Obama Black or white. He's: Steve Palmer [:$25,000
Norm Murdock [:grants, only to Black owned businesses. And,
Steve Palmer [:people are
Norm Murdock [:like, but what? I mean, that's classic racial discrimination. What what do you gotta be kidding me? You know? And what is a black? I don't know what a black is. Yeah. Are we gonna have a Nazi race courts to determine new black people are?
Steve Palmer [:Well, again, I mean, this is like, you're you're exactly right. That's what that leads to. That's what that absurdity leads to because what you're gonna have to have eventually are DNA tests Yeah. With, alright. So you're x percent. We're gonna have to create a definition of those who are entitled to protection because of their skin color. And, you know, then then your DNA makeup is gonna decide that. So then, you know, play that out for a second. So everybody has to get a DNA test and be logged for a category of what you really are. mean, it's freaking insane.
Norm Murdock [:It's the antithesis of what Martin Luther King wanted us to get to. It is it is it's it's like content a character No. That doesn't matter. What matters is your your ancestry.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Which is it's that's madness.
Steve Palmer [:This is radical.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, and and because we know the city of California is gonna go through this whole thing as well too. because I mean, they're on the cusp of, okay. We're gonna pay you.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Reparations. Reparations. It'll never happen.
Brett Johnson [:It it it sounds like it's getting close, but it's the same thing. It's like
Steve Palmer [:--
Brett Johnson [:So it's it's easy.
Steve Palmer [:--
Brett Johnson [:that color again. The gator changes. So it's like,
Steve Palmer [:I I maybe it'll happen. Who do how do I know?
Norm Murdock [:Well, there
Steve Palmer [:seems to me that the
Brett Johnson [:that that it's all about the
Steve Palmer [:-- -- bankrupt. -- bankrupt everybody.
Norm Murdock [:There's that village. There's that village, or city in Illinois that is giving out 10 -- Oh,
Steve Palmer [:is there? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. $10,000. $10,000. That's gonna change the world.
Norm Murdock [:and it it is so I mean, you know, so they're virtue signaling with the taxpayer money.
Brett Johnson [:Where are they looking at this? I was like, okay. We're gonna pay you now. Shut up. Well, sign on the dotted line and no more discussion about it.
Steve Palmer [:-- problem with such entitlement. --
Brett Johnson [:it is, but you know what I mean?
Steve Palmer [:-- has no bottom. That's the problem.
Brett Johnson [:And and it probably is a bottomless well.
Steve Palmer [:It it's like it's it's not enough. So if you give somebody $10,000 and think you're gonna fix something that happened, whatever, 300 years ago, or be am I right?
Brett Johnson [:Well, it can go back. It can go back that far.
Steve Palmer [:Well, say say you go back. Right?
Brett Johnson [:So -- -- can.
Norm Murdock [:It can go back 400. Yeah. According to the 16 19 price. That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Whatever. But it's like, it's it's gonna fix none of that, first of all, because on its face, it it's a non sequitur And beyond that, it's not gonna solve anything. It's not gonna, like, given somebody $10,000 is is like, It's gonna do more damage in many cases. Right? So if you give if it it it doesn't fix anything, it's not enough to fix anything.
Norm Murdock [:Well, in in California, the reparations. The reparations board recommended, I think,
Steve Palmer [:$3,000,000. Like, 3,000,000. So you're gonna give somebody $3,000,000. So if and this has nothing to do with race. Give somebody who's never managed that kind of wealth, $3,000,000 and see what the hell they do.
Norm Murdock [:Well, the ethics and morality of it were were, you know, very clearly stated by Larry Elder. He said it's payments from people who never owned slaves to people who were never slaves. Right? I mean, if you were gonna do, you know, the what was it, 40 acres and a mule The time to do it was immediately after the civil war.
Steve Palmer [:Sure. That would that would at least would have a nexus, a connection,
Norm Murdock [:you know, to to the actual victims.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. But this is and throwing money at it is not a long term solution.
Steve Palmer [:No. It's a short in fact, it's a short term problem. You know, you're gonna give somebody $10 or 3,000,000
Norm Murdock [:are they gonna do with it?
Brett Johnson [:Because if there are inherent problems in the banking systems or housing systems that blacks don't get access.
Norm Murdock [:There will be
Steve Palmer [:--
Brett Johnson [:Then we need to fix that.
Norm Murdock [:Like, you gotta talk to them.
Steve Palmer [:--
Brett Johnson [:if that happens -- Identify the problem. Which it is happening.
Steve Palmer [:Identify the cause. and then attack the cops.
Norm Murdock [:But you talk you talk about racial animus. If if something like like I'm sure up there in Chicago, there are people who came in from communist, Poland. Right? Their big Polish population in Chicago, and people from Middle Eastern countries were, you know, like Iraq, or Syria, right, in Chicago. And and those people were victims too.
Steve Palmer [:Of course. Right?
Brett Johnson [:So But that, like, just that's
Norm Murdock [:the human experience we've all, you know, all cultures at some point virtually, or I I can't think of a culture that hasn't been oppressed or or you've been subjected to some genocide at some point. And the point is those people will be extremely upset when they're when people of who just hap happen to have a different skin color, but were never slaves. get $3,000,000 and some poor appellation guy who's who's ancestors.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, an Irish or Scottish guy. He's just absolutely.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. he gets nothing. Or Hawaiians that were
Brett Johnson [:that were encamped right after the bombing.
Steve Palmer [:You won't. You you
Norm Murdock [:don't think they'll
Brett Johnson [:be -- Those families lost everything. Yes. There
Norm Murdock [:is gonna be incredible.
Brett Johnson [:It is.
Steve Palmer [:That you can't fix it with a check.
Brett Johnson [:You you can't.
Norm Murdock [:Well, if you selectively pay 1 group of victims, who weren't really victims, but the ants of the descendants -- -- enough.
Steve Palmer [:Like, you give somebody 10. They want 20. It's like it it's it's like imagine if your kid says, I really want this or anybody who knows this. So if your kid gets if your child gets in money problems and --
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [: more $: Norm Murdock [:Well, last week,
Steve Palmer [:it doesn't do anything.
Norm Murdock [:There's never enough money to compensate you know, really for human tragedy. So, like, last week, we talked about that $787,000,000 verdict because a baby died. Right? There is no ma there is no I'm sure that's why the jury gushed with such a huge number. because there isn't enough money to pay those parents for what they went through.
Steve Palmer [:No. But that has a see, but that this that's a little bit different because
Brett Johnson [:it is
Steve Palmer [:a little bit of a deterring impact on future, torts.
Norm Murdock [:I got you. Right.
Steve Palmer [:So but this is, like, And look, I'm I don't mean to suggest me certain races can't can't handle their own money. It's this is this is deeper than that.
Brett Johnson [:ever anybody. I agree.
Steve Palmer [:Anybody anybody who happens to collect on those reparations, there may be a certain percentage that are already wealthy. They're just gonna get more wealthy. There's gonna percentage that have 0 operative or 0 understanding of how to manage that kind of money and then people in the middle, but it's not gonna solve any of it. It's gonna broke the country or the the who whatever the governmental entity you've given it. And if somebody's taken my money and given it to somebody because, look, folks, this is our money. These are tax dollars. it it this has huge ramifications, sort of like the student loan thing when they were just gonna all of a sudden -- Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Well, that's back.
Steve Palmer [:It's coming well.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Look. It's about to hit with a vengeance in September. I think all the advances that have been in place since COVID are back and student loan payments are back.
Norm Murdock [:Biden rolled out a new plan this week. Oh, do he? Oh, yeah. He's trying to
Brett Johnson [:admit it.
Steve Palmer [:Let's take that around. What is
Brett Johnson [:it now?
Norm Murdock [:It will. But, yeah, I'm not I'm not pulled up on that particular thing, but but once again, it's going to be, forgiveness. it's gonna be income based and which is a joke, right, because some of the richest kids that borrowed money to go to college. Right? Well, they're not even gonna get jobs. they'll show an income of 0. Of
Brett Johnson [:course. Right.
Norm Murdock [:because they're trust fund babies,
Steve Palmer [:and they're gonna get their tuition gains. So it won't be income and, you
Norm Murdock [:know, they're the so their their tuition will get paid And once again, it's the kids in the middle, the working class families, the the shrinking middle class kids that Maybe work at, you know, Wendy's or they work at, you know
Steve Palmer [:And who signed on that loan document? without knowing they were signing on a loan document.
Norm Murdock [:Adult adult adult adult young people.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Right. And and look. It's we all have to learn these lessons. I have signed on car loans. I have signed on --
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:-- other, I took on other debt that I shouldn't have, and I look back and guess what? It's my obligation to pay it back, and that's what you do.
Norm Murdock [:At that age, you can go down to the recruiting, center and join the air force of the marines or the coast guard or whatever, you're putting your life on the line. So really, you're you're you're application to pay back some educational debt in that respect is a rather, rather minor thing.
Steve Palmer [:Wow. And Compared to your life, I know I know it's the go to argument because it's the it is the right, comparison. Those who didn't take on the debt, those who went to work, Those who went and bought their mechanics tools, those who went to learn to be a pipe fitter or learn to be an electrician or the lineman who who risked their lives day in and day out for their income.
Brett Johnson [:They
Steve Palmer [:didn't take on a 100 or $200,000 worth of student loans, and you're asking them to pay for yours so you can sit somewhere and do nothing.
Norm Murdock [:Alright.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, They would say and I don't mean to be presumptuous about it, but they would say go get an effing job --
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:-- and pay it back.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Because they pay back their truck loan They paid back the snap on loan for their tools.
Norm Murdock [:That's where I
Brett Johnson [:wrote out that apprenticeship that paid nothing.
Steve Palmer [:-- nothing. And now they're cashing in and they're putting food on the families on the table for their families. And
Brett Johnson [:they're coming in and clean, and and they're they're fixing your plumbing. Yeah. They're fixing your car. And we cannot live and we cannot live without them.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, my stupid.
Norm Murdock [:Well, I
Steve Palmer [:mean, even Most capable people on the planet, you're asking them to pay for your stupidity. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Well, e even even worse would be the young person who looked at the cost of going to college, looked at the fact that they would need to get a loan and then chose Right? On the basis of sheer accountancy, chose not to go to college because they said I can't afford it. and then along along comes retroactively, you know, post facto this forgiveness And and, well, see, you've totally cheated that person.
Steve Palmer [:But they they changed the language. Right? It's like, this is this is like, Orwellian speak.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It is.
Steve Palmer [:It's not forgiveness. It's like, we're asking the taxpayers to pay it back. You're not forgiving anything, so you don't forgive money that you owe. Somebody has to pay it. Yeah. The bank has to pay it itself if they don't get paid back, And if the bank is getting paid back, they're asking us the taxpayers to pay back. It's not forgiven.
Brett Johnson [:So on the radio, money moves somewhere. Yes. Because because educators had to be paid. universities tend to be paid.
Norm Murdock [:It's not forgiving. So I'm not on a radio when one of the Biden Flacks was explaining this program to your point about Orwellian speak. they referred to people who because of their low income or no income, do not have to make a payment They called it a $0 monthly payment. And I'm like, a $0 monthly. So you can put 0 into your little book where you tear off the coupon and you called $0 your monthly payment. I mean, That is incredible. Right? I'm going to make a $0 monthly payment with the you're not pay you're not making any payment at all, but that's a way to make you feel like Oh, well, I'm I'm I'm putting this little coupon in an envelope and mailing it away Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Awesome. I understand this. They're making their sending in the payment coupon, but putting 0 down and calling that, the student loan for That's
Norm Murdock [:your monthly payment. It's $0. But
Steve Palmer [:you still have to send the check. I guess so. -- to send the stamp.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Or or that's how they're talking about it as if oh, these people these are just they're just
Steve Palmer [:they're just white washing their life.
Norm Murdock [:These people that's right. These people are still making payments. They just happen to be $0 monthly payments. Oh, I see. I have a mortgage.
Steve Palmer [:You know, and I write a I write a number in there every month, and I transfer the money every month. It's on 0. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It's not I've never heard real payment that's
Steve Palmer [:0.
Norm Murdock [:It's real.
Brett Johnson [:And then
Steve Palmer [:if I said 0, the balance wouldn't change.
Brett Johnson [:Right. And we all walked the PPP loan stuff. Same thing. Same thing knowing, and I was surprised that they forgave some. I walked into it, said yes to it knowing. I'm gonna to pay back. And I did the numbers going okay.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Brett Johnson [:I wanna take it. I'm good. Yep. I'll pay it back. I I was signed on the line willingly paying, you know, only it had to pay it back. Yep. And think okay. Thank you for it did not ask you that. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:And it wasn't forgiven.
Brett Johnson [:It wasn't forgiven, though.
Steve Palmer [:Somebody paid it. Somebody got those dollars, and it was the taxpayers. And, you know So let's
Brett Johnson [:I almost would rather have paid it back, honestly.
Norm Murdock [:I so let's let's print it. So let's let's transferred to that discussion because this week also, in Vanity Fair major article about The this will shock you guys if you didn't read this. People like post Malone, nickelback, Melissa Etheridge, and the list goes on, I think, smashing pumpkins. a lot of these entertainers applied under the ERC PPP type of programs and and some of them got
Steve Palmer [:$10,000,000
Norm Murdock [:in its forgiven.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:Like like We're talking multimillionaire entertainers.
Steve Palmer [:Look. The standards that are not the money. It's unbelievable. The standards to get the money were only that has has the shutdown hurt your business. And it and look. I I don't know if there was a better way to do the standards, but I can tell you this. It it opened up the door to just about everybody. I mean, it's like, you know, it's been wonderful. It's inflation is running at 10,000 degrees hot.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. These scams are I mean, So, you know, people, your your milk prices, your egg prices, your bacon prices, your your your fuel costs, everything, the government is taxing and and the private sector is is having to reflect the higher taxes and the lower profit margins. We're all paying for this.
Steve Palmer [:I have a very close friend. You know, it's funny. My dad always said this as as I was growing up because when you know, once you get established, get your job, whatever it is, make a relationship with an accountant, establish a relationship with a doc, establish a relationship with insurance guy, you know, get your get your people. And it it it's paid off. And I think everybody sort of does that naturally, but it's in a mechanic. you know, just guys that you, you know, folks that you were gonna work with are gonna be your your your support structure going forward. And, I was talking to my insurance agent a little earlier this week, about something. And he's like, man, it's rough. because rates are going up.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, they're
Steve Palmer [:they're they're skyrocking. They are. Like, why? And he says, well,
Norm Murdock [:they are.
Steve Palmer [:you know, there you can't get a car fixed. You know, nobody can get a car fixed because it takes forever.
Norm Murdock [:They're totalling cars for minor damage.
Steve Palmer [:They're totally cars for minor damage because they can't get them fixed. And so there's all these rebuilt titles out there, and those are difficult. it it just is it is one mess -- Yeah. -- after the other --
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:-- in the insurance game. And, you know, the other thing you said is that the car thefts. So the total loss for car thefts is off the charts. It's like gone in 60 seconds in reality. You know, it's right. Right. Because there's so many stolen cars that people are paying for that. You folks, for your government, not not enforcing crime, not going after thieves, You are paying for that. You are paying for that in your insurance dollars. So your mortgage is gonna go up because, your house insurance homeowner's insurance is gonna go up. So it's not your principal and interest, but the other household expenses will go up. Usually, that's part of your escrow. And that's all gonna go up. And, it's because of bad government policy. Yeah. Like, let the thieves steal the cars and get away with it, then the people whose car is stolen reported to insurance. And then their insurance writes a check. So in a vacuum, you would say, well, that's awesome. I got paid for my car because I bought insurance. Well, guess what? The rates are going up next time. and and scale that up across the country, across the world. It it's bad.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's really bad. And, yeah, I'm sure people are seeing it. They're homeowners. They're automotive. everything and all the insurance. That's why
Steve Palmer [:I was talking to my insurance. My bill went up. And I'm like, what's going on?
Norm Murdock [:And it really went up. It really jacked up.
Steve Palmer [:It was it was more than just a a cost of living.
Norm Murdock [:And and energy went up. I mean, like we talked about here, AEP for, the Ohio, consumer in May went up 38%. Mhmm. I mean, good god. I'm just I I you know, but there's a lot
Steve Palmer [:of suffering. -- says it's the best economy ever. You know, friedonomics is can
Norm Murdock [:plug some plug in your electric car at
Steve Palmer [:38%
Norm Murdock [:higher electric rates. Oh, yeah. That makes sense.
Steve Palmer [:That'll work.
Norm Murdock [:the other kinds of Ohio news, we had a school bus, school bus staff over in the, Springfield, Ohio area And once again, that triggered a slew of stories about seat belts on, for children on school buses, in anybody seen the video of that knows that, by the way, it was a Honda Odyssey that went left the center and, force. Yeah. Right. And force It really was. It it a thirty five year old guy that texting. He did not have a license. Uh-huh. And therefore, it got charged with a vehicular manslaughter of felony instead of a misdemeanor.
Steve Palmer [:It enhances if you're driving under suspension. Yeah. It will and he
Norm Murdock [:had no license. So, apparently, it wasn't even suspense. Like, I don't know if he's an illegal immigrant. I don't know the deal.
Steve Palmer [:This is easy to happen. So if suspend. You know, what happens a lot? And this is maybe a fair warning. I'll give you a little lawyer talk breakdown.
Norm Murdock [:Got it.
Steve Palmer [:If you're if your license is under suspension, say you've got a say you got an OBI, DUI, and your license under suspension, for a period of time, you don't have a license. You can't identify yourself. Some people go get what's called a a, temporary identification card, or I'm gonna go get a state ID. If you check, it's it's harder to do now because the way it the BNB agencies deal with it But if you say the wrong thing, if you say I want a state ID, you run the risk of getting something called a permanent identification card. And as soon as you get a permanent identification card, it cancels your driver's license. So you need to ask for a temporary identification card. So that's just one way where you could be an experienced driver, check the wrong box, get an ID, And all of a sudden, you have no license. In order to get it back at that point, you gotta go back to square 1. You gotta retest maneuverability. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:or bus, guys, it ended up on its side.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, it's horrible.
Norm Murdock [:I don't know the mechanics, you know, the report hasn't come out. The NTSB is gonna investigate safe patrol, etcetera. but what always comes out of these things, and there's some organization in Cleveland, you know, one of these organizations that's got always has a you know, uh-uh, a knee jerk reaction to these scenarios, you know, we want seat belts on school buses. We're only 8 states, out of the 50 have a law requiring seat belts. Ohio doesn't require seatbelts. it's permissible but the reason is is because in as in this case, if a bus goes over on its side or the roof, You have kids strong in seat belts hanging in mid air.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I mean, like it there's always a give and take on this stuff.
Steve Palmer [:That's
Norm Murdock [:right.
Brett Johnson [:And
Steve Palmer [:this is my Thomas, so I've told a story probably on this show where there is somebody, a child, an infant died in a plane crash. so there's a result of the plane as a result of that, Congress, boy, they're they're gonna fix that. So they imposed a restriction or an or regulation upon airlines that every child has to have their own seat in a seat belt. And, because the the young child or the toddler died, it was on its mom's own his mom's lap or whatever.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And as a result of that, traveling fatalities, for children, went up exponentially. And it wasn't because they, of the seatbelts in the airplanes. It was because Every child had to have a seat, families couldn't afford to buy seats on airplanes because it was too expensive to fly your family of 5 and and not have your kid on your lap. then they started driving on the roads. And then on the roads, they died in traffic accidents where it's far more dangerous to drive. Far more.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You know,
Steve Palmer [:the I'm not saying there shouldn't be regulations like that. What I am saying is open up your eyes people because it there's always, like, nothing happens in a vacuum. There's always unintended consequences or alternative consequences that happen. And then this is economics. So go read Thomas Sewell to open up your eyes to this kind of stuff. So if you put seatbelts and buses, you know, you like you said, Norm, you might so somebody's gonna have to do a study or somebody's gonna have to figure out.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, it isn't
Steve Palmer [:better, or is it not better?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It's been.
Steve Palmer [:And where is the where the where do the curse us.
Norm Murdock [:So what what what where it is better? Okay. I can answer some of this because I used to be in that industry as a lobbyist. But where it is better, so the National Science Foundation, did a study. The NTSB has done studies. the NTSB does not require that the department transportation does not require seatbelts, but it encourages it. So it's a mixed message. So so if the bus stays upright -- Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:That's weak. Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Norm Murdock [:That so if a bus stays upright and it's a frontal collision, right, The seat belts work as expected like they would in your car. The the problem is school buses have a high center of gravity they are easy to roll over because the platform is way up high. The weight of the children and the passengers is way up high. So it's it's a more teeter totter kind of vehicle like a your SUV. Those are more apt to flip over than say a Corvette or a Porsche, right? And SUVs higher up off the ground that weights higher. And so it's just a matter of simple physics that in a really tight you know, emergency maneuver that the vehicle can has a higher propensity to roll over. And in that case, all of the all of the studies basically say kids being very flexible including their skeletons are very flexible that if you have a containment cell padding is basically what we're talking about. And and it and it it kind of captures that the kid can kinda get tossed around inside this padded environment like a bouncy ballroom. Right? that generally the children survive, maybe have a broken arm or something like that, but don't die. whereas if they were in a belt, they're essentially, like in a noose, they're they're they're hanging from mid air, maybe by their neck, Right? In a in a seat belt that's no longer is belting them into the seat, but it's it's actually got them strung up in mid air. That is not good. And and when you think of 52 kids on a bus and the school bus driver having to constantly know whether or not Little Johnny and Sally have their belt on correctly. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:What is what kind of monitoring does that take?
Norm Murdock [:Oh my god. It's oh, and you touched my child by rearranging his seat belt
Steve Palmer [:if you didn't, like, so you're a sexual predator now. And heaven forbid, if a if a kid, was injured as a result of a crash and didn't have the seat belt on whether or not that was the result the injury,
Brett Johnson [:which they'll have to monitor where the seat belts are actually clicked. So every click will be monitored, so he'll have a panel. why are I guess so the discussion let me it's something rattle in my head when you talked about that high center of gravity for buses. Maybe the the the school buses we know it should go the way of the dodo bird. Why are we looking at a metro bus?
Steve Palmer [:We could do something
Brett Johnson [:different. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:We might be able to do something different.
Brett Johnson [:Lower gravity, they're down lower.
Steve Palmer [:Or at least study alternatives to to figure out. So maybe it could be that a different style bus would be safer than seat belts in the current buses that we have.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And then you have to figure out what that what the consequence of that is.
Brett Johnson [:hear many metro bus pro crashes.
Steve Palmer [:Correct? You don't.
Norm Murdock [:And the those are about five times more expensive than a school.
Brett Johnson [:And I would imagine they are. Yeah. I and and I get it's probably the in expensive way to build a bus is that. Well, school school buses. It's a metal box, you know, Sardine can.
Norm Murdock [:Brand new school bus probably somewhere around a 150 to $200,000. Okay. And a Metro bus that they can be 750,000 and
Brett Johnson [:up
Steve Palmer [:Wow.
Norm Murdock [:You know, they're running on in it, you know, natural gas, you know, propane.
Brett Johnson [:And they're kind of decked out inside too comparatively.
Norm Murdock [:And they, you know, they go up and down for, you know, handicapped people.
Steve Palmer [:it's -- Might be cost prohibitive.
Brett Johnson [:I don't know. It might be.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, and look, you'd have to study the statistics on how many school bus crashes they really are and what are the fatalities. I mean, there's there's that goes into that. That is
Brett Johnson [:still a sad story.
Steve Palmer [:It makes me it makes
Brett Johnson [:me think
Steve Palmer [:of this. Like, I, you know, then we can move on about it, but it was, I had, I just got rid of my truck, but it it was, It had this alarm where if something were behind me or if something were in front of me, the alarm would go off. And It scared the living crap out of me to the point where that almost caused me to wreck more than what it was trying to alarm me about. because I knew that there was a car in front of me slowing down. And, I was in go either moving to the other lane or whatever it would be. And I didn't wanna, you know, but if that alarm went off a couple of times it happened, I hit, you know, your reactions to freak out and and slam your brakes. Yeah. And, I did that once. and somebody hit me from behind.
Norm Murdock [:Wow.
Steve Palmer [:And I'm not saying that they like, they're responsible because they weren't following close enough.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Or they were falling too close. Yeah. Yeah. and it was it it was one of those impacts where I happen to have my trailer hitch on, so it just put a hole in her bumper. But, it it only happened because I freaked out at my car alarm, that --
Brett Johnson [:And you couldn't turn that off?
Steve Palmer [:I didn't I'd I never tried. I'd I got rid of it.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, I
Steve Palmer [:can't say that's the reason it only had, you know, but it scared me to the point where I probably wouldn't have slammed the brakes on as much as I did, except for that alarm.
Norm Murdock [:Well, these nanny controls, I call them nanny, you know, like a a minor. These controls are
Brett Johnson [:increasingly unable to be
Norm Murdock [:turned off. Yeah. I'll Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Now I'm not saying it doesn't prevent certain action. It probably does, man. But studies need to happen to determine what's the unintended downside to it. because, you know,
Norm Murdock [:well, these nanny controls and some of the automatic driving capabilities
Steve Palmer [:of these cars, things.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. They are actually causing in attention behind the wheel. That's the other driver. Because the drivers are becoming inured. complacent. that, you know, hey, this car kinda drives itself.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, it gets driving itself. Read the newspaper. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Right. So I'm
Steve Palmer [:in a my I'm a watch YouTube. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And I
Brett Johnson [:don't think there's some safety advances that have been made. They're really gonna mean that the the the, the lights that go on in your rearview mirrors outside.
Steve Palmer [:And, you
Brett Johnson [:know, then the blind spot stuff. I whoever invented that, I hope they're a millionaire.
Steve Palmer [:There's some good stuff.
Brett Johnson [:Oh my gosh.
Steve Palmer [:But it's most of the I I I just feel like a lot of this is theater. So we're gonna put these alarms in cars and
Brett Johnson [:they're gonna
Steve Palmer [:be safer, but they haven't really if they have studied it, they don't care because it sounds good. We gotta do something.
Brett Johnson [:See, but
Norm Murdock [:even even the mirror thing, Brett, so, like, what happens when the light bulb burns out? Because you've conditioned that driver now to never check his mirrors. because he's got an automatic mere checker.
Brett Johnson [:There's always a yank in
Steve Palmer [:the yanks,
Brett Johnson [:but there is.
Norm Murdock [:So so I I would I would if if that was an option, which it's not. But if it was an option, I would uncheck that option and say no. You know, norm the race car driver religiously turns his head physically and looks behind and checks his mirror.
Steve Palmer [:present company, I think, will be okay. without with or without those lights, right, because we all learn to drive without them. So it is it is so ingrained to me. I I
Norm Murdock [:never -- And I don't trust them.
Steve Palmer [:I have those lights in my mirror. I don't even look at them. I don't even know. I mean, I I don't they just blink and I don't even pay attention.
Brett Johnson [:That's a good point.
Steve Palmer [:I always check my mirrors. Always check my mirrors. Not because I'm a great driver. In fact, I I suffer at times of from a little on on inattentiveness.
Norm Murdock [:Can I ask you a question?
Steve Palmer [:-- condition to do it. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So do I'll bet you check your mirrors even when you're just toodling down the road and you're not about to make a lane change.
Steve Palmer [:control all the time.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You are doing What do I call that, situational awareness?
Steve Palmer [:Yes. All the time.
Norm Murdock [:All the time.
Steve Palmer [:And I I I I I the only reason I know that I do this is because I had to get my I had to teach my 2 sons to drive. Made me a little bit more aware of how I drove.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And I I started to realize, like, look, you're always like it's almost like a routine.
Brett Johnson [:That's
Steve Palmer [:right. This that that forward this. Or if I happen to do something like I'm fiddling with the radio -- Yeah. -- the next thing I do is check around me.
Norm Murdock [:Absolutely.
Brett Johnson [:And I
Steve Palmer [:don't do it on purpose. It's it's a habit.
Brett Johnson [:Well, it's it's part of defensive driving.
Norm Murdock [:It's muscle memory and the word defensive, Brett, is perfect. So it's like when I was a defensive lineman, my coach said, Norm, put your head on a swivel. You are you're monitoring everything because, you know, it could be a sweep coming at you. It could be a fake reverse. you know, like you need to be ready for exigencies and put your head on a swivel. Look around all the time. like constant awareness. And that's how you need to drive, folks.
Steve Palmer [:But then and I think your point, Norm, so we have this seesaw sliding scale. safety features that that on their face, presumably make our cars safer and you become more aware as a driver, but the unintended consequences you become less aware as a driver and you become lazy. And then when those features go away or you drive a car that doesn't have
Norm Murdock [:it.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Or if, if you're in a scenario where they don't or that happen not to be the solution and fix, you're screwed. You know?
Norm Murdock [:But the classic is the people that are pushing a button. that does parallel parking for them.
Steve Palmer [:Oh my gosh.
Norm Murdock [:And that
Steve Palmer [:that should be outlawed.
Norm Murdock [:And so there's a whole generation of young people, right, that if they're in dad's, you know, classic 75 Buick La Sabre, and they're out, like, prom night, nothing.
Steve Palmer [:Calling that classic is an interesting.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Right. They cannot
Brett Johnson [:You can't parallel park. That's it.
Norm Murdock [:And and you'll be behind them, like, on a road waiting for them to parallel park in front of the restaurant. and you're like, okay. I I guess I got a half hour.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and and and a good example of this. We were down at Cincinnati last week. And I have I've kind of avoided parallel parking with this gladiator because, I mean, it does not turn on a dime. Yeah. I'm saying, okay. I got I gotta learn well, how to do this.
Norm Murdock [:It's a long vehicle.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And and so there is a spot, and I drive by and going, I can get in there. So Angie pops out of the Jeep I'll help you get in just because she knows it's the first time. It took me a half a dozen times to get it in because I'm number 1, I'm going uphill backwards. Yeah. You know, in Cincinnati. Right. So give that. That's I give this Cincinnati 1, but I did it.
Norm Murdock [:And next time
Steve Palmer [:I'm at ticket at the time.
Brett Johnson [:It will. It's just knowing where that that point is, but it to your point, if you have it automatically due for you, you never learn your vehicle.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:It's it's sort of like back in a trailer.
Brett Johnson [:It was frustrating, but it got
Norm Murdock [:takes practice.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It takes practice. I I am no pro at that, and I've got my father-in-law who is a former tractor trailer driver.
Brett Johnson [:when I
Steve Palmer [:-- So it's like more pressure than you can imagine.
Brett Johnson [:When you see people do it, the first time, it's like, god, that's a skill. Yeah. I love seeing people just being able to one time do it that's am amazes me.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It is a skill. I gotta throw this in guys. I know we're getting there on time, but, I found this to be unbelievable. So there was a, a a customs and border patrol official speaking about this program. I don't know. So so we could do we could do home on the range here and do another song because this involves this involves Antelope. This is this involves Antelope. That that's a state song at Kansas, by the way, home on the range. Anyway, saying I sang that at my father's funeral.
Steve Palmer [:That's gonna be far more complicated musically than the weight.
Norm Murdock [:So when I when I cave, When I gave, when I gave the talk at dad's funeral, we sang home on the range because dad always wanted to be a cowboy. And, he married a girl from Kansas. That's a Kansas state song. Anyway, hey. Biden, this is unbelievable. This is unreal. So if you think that the Democrats in the White House are not intentionally trying to change blue states to the or excuse me, red states to blue states. this is this this will this will take away your naivete on that subject. So in the name of Antelope reproductive freedom, right, They have cut a
Steve Palmer [:110
Norm Murdock [:gates. And now and we we are talking gates that are like 40 to 60 feet wide in the trump fencing. You know, that as Trump would call it the beautiful fencing. Right? that that that, those those steel vertical slats that he did five hundred miles of those. Right? they cut a
Steve Palmer [:110
Norm Murdock [:holes in those 40 to 60 feet wide. Well, he sent welders out to cut literal permanent holes, not gates that can be locked up again, but they're just open. Right? And so the antelopes aren't using them. Guess who's using them. The car tech.
Steve Palmer [:The coyotes.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. So, the hon he had a he had a the this particular border patrol had, a guest with him that was, a hunting expert, right, in Arizona, talking about antelopes. He says You know, if there's no hole in that gate and that thing in the wall and that and that antelope really wants to get to Mexico, It's it's like a 1 hour to 2 hour trot to go around the end of the of the wall.
Steve Palmer [:Right. It's so stupid.
Norm Murdock [:It's so stupid in transparently obvious that it it's it's not being done for antelopes. Yeah. One frustrating thing for me, and I predicted it on this show. So we had the Supreme Court decision about race based admissions to colleges. Right? And that was that Harvard And University of North Carolina case. and okay. They they They came out with a very clear statement, right, that race in and of itself is not to be a criteria for admitting people to college. and I said at the time how frustrated I would be with that because the there was an opportunity for the Supreme Court to make a much wider statement about race based bias in all kinds of things, promotions, scholarships, whatever. So now coming inevitably, right, because they did a very narrow decision, which was stupid by the Supreme Court, in my opinion. They are now faced with a case involving admissions, race based admissions to high schools. we're gonna go through every sliver of life. Here we go. Right? So next, it'll be fire departments and then it'll be police depart. And if they keep construing these cases on a narrow set of facts instead of just blowing up the idea that, hey, guys, you can't use race.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Hold on a second.
Norm Murdock [:Come on.
Steve Palmer [:Let me let me let me
Norm Murdock [:So here we go. Now they gotta decide high school rates.
Brett Johnson [:Let me
Steve Palmer [:give you the other side of that coin. What you don't there there's a concept called judicial restraint. What you don't want is a Supreme court that legislates And it has to take the case or controversy that's before it. And if you wonder where that term comes from, it's in the constitution. So it's gotta have the the case or controversy before it. It can't decide facts and and give advisory opinions on other factors. So what the lawyers do, what this this this is what's amazing about our system of justice, the western system of justice, something broadly known as the common law. It evolves as as humans, explore the boundaries of what the previous decision was. So now what's gonna happen is a lawyer's gonna say, well, we can apply that decision parallel over here, and we're gonna say this rule law should apply to this scenario. You don't want the US Supreme Court predicting all the scenarios at once. It's gonna take time, and it took time to get to this mess. It's gonna take time to untie this mess. but the the the writing is on the wall, so to speak, and it's pretty clear where it's going. We're doing the same thing with the 2nd Amendment norm. We're I mean, they're they're taking the brewing decision and and we as lawyers are sort of exploring the bounds of that by trying to apply the history, text, and and, I've I've lost the other one, but the the the analytical approach of brewing, to other gun related scenarios. And it's gonna take time for it all to evolve. That's what common law does. So, look, I would I you know, it would be nice to say, let's just have a decision that applies to all those things and let's just outlaw it all right now. But you can't do that because the Supreme Court is not the legislative branch of government. The legislature could do it, and then somebody on the other side would challenge that law, and it would have to be decided by the Supreme Court anyway. So
Norm Murdock [:I wish I wish Steve they would have gone at least this far and just said for educational institutions. Right? It it it it make it at least that broad and just say, okay. It's colleges, high schools, grade schools, trade schools, community colleges, any kind of educational opportunity. Right? You don't
Brett Johnson [:decide that based on race.
Norm Murdock [:They could have at least done that. That's that, you know, instead of requiring this. So now we have society and chaos because somebody is gonna litigate every different fact scenario.
Steve Palmer [:That's happened with every single constitutional issue since we started our government. So you wanna and
Norm Murdock [:I find that it's so messy. Yeah. This is about racial discrimination, and I think and I think, you know, they could have made a broader.
Steve Palmer [:dismantled in the first place with decisions like that. It's gonna have to be it's gonna have to be fixed with with the same pace. It just doesn't it's just how it's gonna be.
Norm Murdock [:I find it frustrating.
Brett Johnson [:So do we I can't disagree with that. Yeah. Do we ultimately walk into this with a voucher system, though, too? It might
Steve Palmer [:end up a school voucher.
Brett Johnson [:Be because because well,
Norm Murdock [:Ohio has that now.
Brett Johnson [:was gonna say because okay. So, you know, you wanna move from one high school to another, and that high school can only have x amount of students. Right. So how how when do how does this decision process?
Norm Murdock [:Lottery. Lottery. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Well, so no more
Steve Palmer [:--
Brett Johnson [:Oh, yeah. -- you know, turn into something where we have 1 a half. We we we say we're gonna allow 1 a half percent because we wanna
Steve Palmer [:-- Well, that's lottery. So, you
Norm Murdock [:know, in Columbus, there's that fancy arts and whatever school. And Cincinnati has the 1 in Cleveland. And it's -- And there's way more public school students wanna go to that.
Brett Johnson [:Right? by law, it has to be a lottery? You're talking about c c the clinical arts.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. They they use a lottery.
Brett Johnson [:It's okay. I didn't I don't know because you didn't have to walk into it. I didn't know.
Norm Murdock [:There would be Right. There would be marches in front of the place in any other system.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, right.
Steve Palmer [:This is this is my son's taking -- -- this
Brett Johnson [:then. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Well, it's a great point, and I'm gonna make a broad I'm gonna I'm gonna expand a little bit because my son is now at Bowling Green, and he's taken economics. And he's I talked to him on the phone the other day, and he's like, he goes, yeah, it's all about scarcity. And I said, yes, it is. Life is scarcity. It's all about scarcity and how we deal with that. And and, it really there is nothing infinite. There's a finite amount of resources. Now You know, sometimes scarcity is defined as how much money you're willing to spend to go add to your resources. Sometimes, it is a finite limit, and there's nothing you can do about it. only a finite number of places in schools, and the scarcity has to be dealt with on some level in some way. Yeah. And the it's, if you start looking at life that way, you will see a whole different viewpoint of it. You know, like, you can't just have everything. No. You cannot have everything. It's nothing is perfect.
Norm Murdock [:We all want the nectar. Right? Everybody is like bumblebees. We're circling around the nectar, and there's just not enough. Not enough. No.
Steve Palmer [:And and if anybody who's ever made a budget realizes you can't have the Ferrari and the house you want and this and that. And there's there's a limit to everything. Now you could go up to the very top and there's still a limit.
Brett Johnson [:You know, there's, like, you can't
Steve Palmer [:own the world.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:You know, you just scale it up and that there's always some degree of scarcity and it might apply differently to those of us who make less. but it it still applies to those who make more just a little bit differently. You know, there's always always a one. So this is where the, you know, sort the biblical concept, the western concept of sort of living within your, like, finding your unhappiness without the external things, you know, give up your life now and you're gonna live forever. You know, it's it's sort of like that that notion or even go to the old testament and just read Noah, you know, get a sacrifice now so you can you can, survive later. Yeah. And and it's, you can't have everything all at once. you have to make decisions and decisions result by the very definition in discrimination. So we discriminate day in and day out. You know, am I gonna am I gonna drink this coffee? or am I gonna spend my money on something else?
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Am I gonna do this, or am I gonna do that? Because time is the ultimate scarcity.
Norm Murdock [:I went to Wendy's for coffee. I didn't go Starbucks.
Steve Palmer [:So that you made you discriminated today against Starbucks. Now the reasoning for the discrimination, that the government imposes is what we're talking about. So the government can't say we're gonna make a skin color or race based, decision only and how that sorts out in the real world gets really complicated because there's other resources that are scarce, sort of like what you're talking about, Brett. It's like, alright. We still only have x number vouchers. Yeah. how do we sort that out? Should it be an equal number of people? Should it be a random lottery? should it be those who have had less before? This is this is where this is where it gets really, really complicated. And I I happen to believe that the people tend to sort that stuff out. We we tend to sort it out on our own. Got me
Norm Murdock [:guys, I'll bang through some some real quick things.
Steve Palmer [:Give us some nuggets.
Norm Murdock [:Sent some nuggets. So, COVID masking, tracing, vaccine mandates, seem to be coming back in certain pockets. Oh gosh. famously, a college down in Georgia. Forget the name, but, it's creeping back because of this, latest variant. So, we'll keep our antennas up on that. secondly, regarding covid YouTube, which is owned by Google came out with a policy this past week that the World Health Organization's take on all health related matters but most notably COVID, of course, is going to be gospel and that posts, videos, speeches, shows, whatever, which are in contradiction to the WHO will be taken off
Brett Johnson [:of here.
Steve Palmer [:Their their track record's so good.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. and then another thing. My last thing is weirdly enough SpaceX is being sued even though they're a vendor to the US government. The DOJ is suing SpaceX because it is not hiring undocumented aliens that and I don't
Steve Palmer [:mean space.
Norm Murdock [:And I don't mean space aliens.
Steve Palmer [:So if you're
Norm Murdock [:if you're able to trust
Steve Palmer [:her, well, you can't get
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So so Musk is saying, really, like, this is a defense related enterprise that we're in, like, we do this for the Pentagon. Right? And we do this for NASA. And you want us to hire non US citizens and non green card holders. Like, we're supposed to hire illegals. Yeah. And the and the DOJ is saying, yes. lunacy. lunacy. I love
Brett Johnson [:that idea for a sci fi book though. Right. What you just said about, you know, some DOD and some some something being built, but you can't hire aliens.
Steve Palmer [:Right. aliens. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:I love that that that's that's got such a a nugget of thought right there.
Steve Palmer [:There's there's a, an irony in that.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, that's another riveting hour or so of common sense, Ohio with the musical interlude or prelude, I should say,
Brett Johnson [:rather. concert.
Steve Palmer [:The the warm up. We'll we'll do more. So, Norm, maybe, you gotta I don't know if you're gonna find another song that you can --
Norm Murdock [:The night, the secret service drove Trump down to the Fulton County jail. And the people said, nah. Nah. Nah. Nah. Nah. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, you you go to work and just give me the feeling of the song. We'll figure it out. so common sense, Ohio, coming at you at, common sense, Ohio show.com. Why give you that website because that's the easy way to do it. Folks, go there, check it out, read norms, read Brett's blogs, subscribe to the the show right there. You can just hit subscribe, then it'll take you to where you need to go to subscribe, and and download. You can do that on your own, of course, at Apple, Google, or Spotify, else you'd like to get your podcast, put ours up there. It's growing fast. But I had some feedback from, a good friend of mine out in Dayton, Ohio. He was talking about, a legal case I'm working on with somebody out there and, mention I also have the podcast. He goes, oh, that's that guy. I know that podcast. He listens. so you can listen too. So all the cool cats are doing it. I promise it's the cool thing to do. check it out. Common Sense, Ohio show.com, and we are coming at you right from the middle, each and every week, at least until now.
