What if the secret to creative success isn’t your portfolio... but your people?

Melquea Smith is a children’s book illustrator and artist who creates clip art of black and brown kids.

Her journey from side-hustling artist to full-time creative is built on one foundational truth: community changes everything.

In this conversation, Melquea shares why the lone genius myth is killing creative careers, how she’s learned to create her own luck through intentional relationship-building, and what it really takes to survive the marathon of creative entrepreneurship when patience is basically a required skill.

Highlights

The marathon mindset separates survivors from quitters.

Melquea is refreshingly honest about what it takes to make it as a creative.

The glamorous overnight success stories we see on social media? They’re not real.

What’s real is showing up consistently, even when the work feels invisible, even when progress feels impossibly slow.

“I’m learning through all of this is that it’s a marathon, not a sprint. And really it’s just like longevity, just outlasting everyone.”

Her story is proof that persistence trumps perfection every time.

Sometimes the only difference between the creative who makes it and the one who quits is one decides to keep going even when it gets hard.

But surviving the marathon isn’t just about persistence. It’s also about strategy.

Standing out means zigging while everyone else zags.

Most creatives hide behind their portfolios, hoping their work will speak for itself.

Melquea took the opposite approach.

She embraces podcasts, public speaking, webinars, workshops, and Instagram Lives. She does all the visibility work that many creatives shy away from.

“Right now I’m in my promotion phase where… people need to know that I exist.”

She understands something most creatives miss: talent without visibility does not get you noticed.

The goal isn’t just to create great work. The goal is to make sure people know your great work exists.

You can’t be discovered if nobody knows you exist.

Melquea is in what she calls her “discovery phase”—that crucial period where building awareness matters more than perfecting your craft.

Because your ideal clients can’t hire you if they don’t know you’re available.

“It’s just our job as creators and marketers to just remind [people], hey, this exists.”

It isn’t about being pushy or salesy. It’s about consistent, generous visibility that keeps you top of mind when opportunities arise.

The best marketing doesn’t feel like marketing at all. It feels like building relationships with people who genuinely care about your success.

Community amplifies everything you’re already doing.

Melquea has cracked the code on something most creatives struggle with: she doesn’t just create work, she creates advocates.

By building genuine relationships with other creatives and business owners, she’s created a network that does the heavy lifting for her.

“Other people will do that heavy lifting for you. They’ll share your work or repost your work without even asking.”

The magic happens when creatives genuinely support each other’s success.

When you help others win, they remember. When opportunities come up that aren’t right for them, they think of you.

Luck is just preparation meeting intentional outreach.

Melquea believes in making her own luck through relationship-building.

She reaches out to people in her network regularly, follows up consistently, and treats every connection like it could lead somewhere meaningful.

“You just never know what email will land into your inbox or DM on Instagram.”

We should avoid being transactional. We should create opportunities by staying genuinely connected to people.

The creatives who seem “lucky” are usually just the ones who’ve been planting seeds consistently, even when they couldn’t see the harvest coming.

Closing Reflection

Melquea’s story dismantles the myth that creative success is a solo journey.

Her path from side-hustling artist to full-time illustrator wasn’t built on raw talent alone. It was built on community, consistency, and the courage to be visible when it would be easier to hide.

She reminds us that the creative life isn’t just about making beautiful things. It’s about building the relationships and systems that help beautiful things find their way to the people who need them most.

What’s one way you’re building community around your creative work? Share in the comments.

When you connect with other people and they, they experience you as a person, they instantly intrinsically want to help you.

And figuring out ways to like, ask for that, like, oh, I'm looking for these types of opportunities, or I would love to learn more about doing murals for, you know, for municipalities or states or something like that, or cities.

Then somehow, some way somebody will know somebody will know somebody and that'll introduce you and, and then you start having those conversations.

And I think that's the beauty of building community.

Other people will do that heavy lifting for you.

They'll share your work or repost your work without even asking.

Welcome to the Standout Creatives, where making money and creating meaningful work go hand in hand.

You're already passionate about what you create.

Now let's turn that passion into a standout business.

Marketing your work doesn't have to be overwhelming.

It can actually amplify your creativity.

I'm your guide, Kevin Chung, and this podcast is your roadmap to creative business success.

I'll show you how to turn your unique talents into a business that truly represents who you are.

Let's get started.

Hi and welcome to another episode of Standout Creatives.

And today I've on Malkuia Smith.

Malkia, can you tell us about yourself and the work you do and how you got into it?

Yeah.

So hello, my dear listeners.

Hi Kevin.

Thank you for having me on this awesome podcast.

I am a children's book illustrator and I create clip art of black and brown kids.

I have been, I like to joke this.

I've been illustrating since I came out of the womb, but for the most part I've been drawing my entire life.

I grew up on the Internet.

I'm the age of, I'm at that age where kids were on DeviantArt and like posting their art online, conceptart.org which was a little intimidating for me really.

And I started learning pretty quickly that like artists can actually make money through their artwork and through like being a business owner.

And I've always had like jobs on the side and this is actually the first time that I've been like full time illustration and I'm still figuring it all out still.

It's still a work in progress and.

But I'm learning like through all of this is that it's a marathon, not a sprint.

And really it's just like longitivity, just like outlasting everyone.

Yeah.

I think the thing that separates people who succeed versus those who don't is the ones who do just continue to do it because they can't give up.

They have no choice but to continue doing what they want to do.

Yeah, it's literally that, like, yeah, okay.

Like, my work background was like, I fell into fundraising, so I just fell into becoming, like, a development coordinator.

And I worked for a nonprofit organization locally, and then.

Then I worked for another nonprofit, like, remotely.

And then recently, I guess you could say recently, like, last August, I lost my job and our whole organization shut down.

And I was thinking about, like, okay, but what.

And I'm looking.

I'm just, like, looking at other development coordinator positions, and I'm looking at other, like, fundraising jobs, and I'm, like, looking at the organization, and I'm looking at.

Dear Listener, you might not be able to see me, but I have literally, like, light periwinkle braids.

I have two nose piercings, and I'm wearing light pink.

And I just looking at myself in the mirror, and I'm looking at these jobs, like, job descriptions.

I'm like, do I really want to do this?

Like, the hair stays, the piercings are going to stay.

I don't want to have to feel like a part of myself in order to fit in with an organization or a company.

And.

And I was just like, you know, I have been doing freelancing, illustration and bits and pieces.

Like, as I've been working, I really want to just try to do this thing full time and whatever full time means.

Like, it could be.

It could mean 80 hours a week, it could be whatever, but it just means that, you know, this is like, my primary focus.

And so that's.

That's where I am right now.

And it is.

It's been a journey, but even though I'm, like, sitting in my.

On my dining room table, like, I'm realizing that, like, it takes a lot more to, like, build.

It takes a lot to, like, build your community and to, like, meet people.

And that's kind of been like, something that I'm going to harp on a lot is, you know, building community, be it other creatives, other business owners, especially, like, people that are not in your niche, especially that will help creatives kind of break out of that.

That trap of falling into trying to market to other creatives.

Unless that is your business model.

Yeah, I think we can listen.

There's always myths that people create about different things.

And the one for creatives is you have to be a lone genius in order to succeed in any creative endeavor.

And I don't know how this idea made its way into the lexicon or society or whatever, but from my experience of every creative person that I've ever met.

They have to do it within community, because otherwise it just makes it way too difficult.

Yeah, you know, I just.

I just got this information from someone.

Somebody told me, like, I was in a virtual networking group today, and I was having a conversation with someone, and I was telling her about my clip art business, and she was just like, oh, my God, like, I need this.

Like, I've been looking for diverse stock imagery and clip art, and knowing that you're a creator that's actually making this just makes me, like, so happy.

And I was telling her, I was just like, you know, I'm so happy to hear that.

And I've gotten a lot of people who said that they need this or they're interested, but my dollars are not reflecting that.

And she's just like, but right now, where you are, you're in a discovery phase.

Like, people need to know that you exist in order, and in order for them to kind of have it in the back of their head.

And then people will buy when they're ready.

So it'll be like six months down the line, three weeks down the line, two months down the line, whatever.

It's just our job as, like, creators and marketers to just remind them, like, hey, this exists.

Hey, this is it.

Hey, it exists.

And then when they're ready, like, you just, right time, right place, if you're consistent and you show up, then they'll be like, oh, yeah, that's right.

I want to actually buy this thing.

So my focus now has been shifting from shifting to just, I need people, as many people to know that I'm doing this as possible, so that even if there's, like, an educator that's a friend of someone's, and they're like, have you heard of this?

Oh, my gosh, you would love this.

Or, oh, my gosh, your classroom would love this.

Or, you know, you're making stuff and you can't find this.

Here's an artist that's actually doing this.

So I'm just in the process of like, telling as many people as possible stuff as possible and then.

And just getting them on the train.

The email list is like, the train to get them on, like, the platform to get on the train.

So that's.

That's where I am right now.

So I'm just like, okay, I can just focus on just, like, outreach and focus on just, like, getting in touch with people and.

And collaborating with folks and.

And kind of building almost like a pathway to, like, here's how someone Hurt hears from me.

And then this is how they can.

Like, here's the end goal, like, the destination to like.

And for me, it's email.

Email list for sure.

Yeah.

So, so many good things in there.

One.

One thing that I love is that you're just leaning into the idea of promoting yourself and, you know, saying, this is what I do.

Because as artists and creatives, we can say, I don't, I don't want to push myself because whatever, whatever reason we have in our heads that thinks, oh, people don't want to know about this.

But people are not going to buy from you unless you tell them what you do and what you offer.

Right?

Yes.

And it's so difficult too.

It's so difficult.

Like, my little nine dollar a month membership is so easy to promote.

But when it comes to say, I had this like, higher ticket offer and it was like custom art, and it was like, custom.

I was doing like a custom character design for children's book authors.

And I had the idea, I had everything like, laid out.

It was perfect in air quotes.

But, you know, but then I had to talk about it and I froze up and I was like, oh my God, no one's gonna buy this thing.

It's too expensive in this economy.

How care.

How dare she like it?

And so I'm still working on that too.

It's.

I'm still trying to figure out, like, just.

But something also in my mind and like, my heart was like, this doesn't feel right.

And I'm still trying to figure out what that is.

Maybe it's the audience, maybe it's something.

But it was like, it doesn't feel right.

Like, I feel like my email list is filled with these types of people that might not be interested.

But how do I know that if I don't talk about it?

Yeah, it's always such a dilemma to figure out the best way to talk to the people, because especially when you're just starting, it's very difficult to find out what people are looking for, where they are, when they're looking for the things.

It's just a whole bunch of research, trial and error, and making connections, I think is probably the best way to do it because people will love to offer advice and connections.

Oh, have you met Okuya?

She does this right Versus I don't know where to look, but other people do.

And unless you ask for that, no one's gonna tell you where to go.

Yeah, and I find it awesome too, because, like, other people are willing to, like, help you out.

So if you might be a little bit more reserved or you might be a little more introverted, or it's harder to talk about yourself.

Like, I can sell other people's stuff any day.

When it comes to my stuff, like myself, it's so hard.

Like, I used to be in the anime convention circuit, and I meet, like, other artists, and if they'd be like, oh, could you actually watch my table?

Have to go to the bathroom?

And then I'd be like, sure.

And then, like, they come back and there's like, three sales that were made, and I'm just like, it's so easy.

But then it comes to myself, and I'm like, hi, here's my art.

But, like, I think, like, building community, once you do, like, once you are.

And I guess we can talk more about, like, what does that mean?

What does build community?

What does that mean?

But when you connect with other people and they.

They experience you as a person, they instantly intrinsically want to help you.

And figuring out ways to, like, ask for that.

Like, oh, I'm looking for these types of opportunities, or I would love to learn more about doing murals for, you know, for municipalities or states or something like that, or cities.

Then somehow, some way, somebody will know.

Somebody will know somebody, and that'll introduce you.

And then you start having those conversations.

And I think that's the beauty of, like, building community.

You'll.

You'll be able to.

Other people will do that heavy lifting for you.

They'll.

They'll share your work or repost your work without even.

Without even asking.

And it's.

It's really helpful.

Yeah.

And I think that's why it's also important for you to be generous as well.

Like, here is a connection to this person, because when they remember you helping them, in a way, it's like a.

The society that we built, at least in the U.S. i'm not there anymore.

But the way that the U.S. society is built is the individual is all you have.

Right.

You have to do.

You have to make it on your own.

You have to do this, and you have to succeed because, you know, you're independent or whatever.

Right.

It wasn't.

I need to do this for myself, because there is not really a way for you to do that.

Right, Exactly.

Like, I think there's also this thing of, like, you don't know what you don't know.

And I was, like, talking with a friend about, like, his like career and stuff like that.

And he was saying how much he likes conservation and this and that and, and environmental conservation.

And I was just like, you know, have you ever thought of like working for a nonprofit?

Like, yeah, I know in the US like nonprofits are like literally on fire.

But this, you know, and he had no, he didn't even think that that was a possibility.

Like, wait.

And so his brain, he need like a minute to like process that one sentence.

He's like, oh my gosh.

I'm like, yeah, like there's a ton of like conservationists or like even like in some sort of environmental justice or like, whatever.

Like there are ways to be able to, to do that.

And so I feel like it's.

You don't know what you don't know.

Like, you can talk to one person and like a sentence could literally change your life.

And that email that you get in your inbox could literally change the game for, for like your creative career.

And that's, that's one reason why I love to just like wake up every morning because you just, you just never know what email will land into your inbox or like a DM on Instagram and you're like, oh shoot, this could be like a really cool opportunity and you just have no idea like how, how, how far that can take you.

Yeah, I love the idea of making your own luck because it does take a lot of luck.

Any, any success.

I don't care if you're a giant corporation or like a single person business.

Everything is some happenstance of the way that history unfolds and you don't really have control over like 99.99% of what happens to you or around you or any of that stuff.

But you can put yourself into as many opportunities to make those types of connections as possible versus, oh, I'm never gonna find anybody.

But if you don't take the intention to try to do that, you're.

You're obviously gonna fail because you, you didn't do anything.

Yeah, yeah, I've been trying to do that by doing like reach outs.

I.

Another thing I haven't done for a few months, but sending an email every day to someone in my ecosystem.

Like my, my, my.

Yeah, my ecosystem.

Just someone that I know or someone that I maybe met once in person or not in person, just like sending out a reach out and hopefully, hopefully giving them like some form of like, value, whatever that means.

Like, have you heard of this program?

Have you heard of this thingy?

I stumbled upon a blah, blah, blah, and and then, like, connect, like, what's going on in your world?

Like, would you be up for virtual coffee?

Or.

I'm in the process of doing this.

Do you know anybody that would be interested in this?

And so that's one way of, like, making your own luck, which is just, like, reaching out.

And it is terrifying.

It's terrifying the first time you do it.

Like, you're like, oh, God, I am bothering this person.

They're gonna hate me forever.

And I don't deserve.

Whatever your brain is gonna.

Whatever the brain worms are gonna say.

They're gonna say their thing.

But the more you do it, like, the easier it becomes.

I hope it became a lot easier because it's just like, okay, I'm just gonna do it and just send it out and.

And then people will get back to me when they do, or I'll follow up.

Which is definitely another skill to have.

Like, always follow up and always give grace.

Because everyone is busy, I guess.

Like, everyone's busy.

So you just, you know, hey, just following up.

But like, when you send, like, email or a voice note or whatever just to, like, make your own luck and.

And also be a resource to other people.

Yeah.

I think it's so funny because the alternative to you sending the email is nothing happens.

And if they ignore your email, it's the same as if you would not have sent the email anyways.

So there's really nothing to lose unless you go scorched earth and do something really stupid.

Right.

It's like, there's nothing to lose by just, like, reaching out to people.

Especially if you're trying to offer something helpful or, you know, just reconnect.

Because I think people are surprised when they receive an email unsolicited from somebody that they met, you know, a while ago, and they're just like, saying, hey, versus, you know, do you want to buy my thing?

Because, I mean, no one.

No one wants to see that, but they do want to see, oh, I'm working on this.

And do you know anybody that's interested?

And they might be interested themselves, which is kind of a pathway in that sort of sense.

So I think it's important just to reach out to people if you feel the need or you want to.

And I love the idea.

I was doing this a while ago, and I also stopped.

So.

So what does it mean to reach out to somebody you haven't talked to in a while and just connect with them on a human to human level?

Yeah, you did talk a little bit about, like, a spreadsheet that you you're using before we jumped on to record.

Can you talk about how you use that and how that's kind of helped you like manage all these relationships that you're, you're in.

Let me see if I can pull it up so I can know what the heck I'm actually talking about.

So I was mentioning earlier before we were live, that I have the spreadsheet of tracking people that I have connected with somehow, some way.

And dear listener, it's going to sound like I'm like super cool and I'm like I've got like everything under control and I don't.

All right.

Like it's, it's not, it's actually, you know, it's, it's a little tough.

But I figured with my old fundraising job, we had this like, database where we would keep in touch with all our donors.

Not all of them, but like, like if a person donates 20 bucks and you just have a little bit of information about them, who they are, if they have a social media, we would go more in depth for like the larger donors for obvious reasons.

But I was thinking about that after my job ended and I was like, oh, it'd be really nice for me to keep an idea of like, who do I actually like connect with?

Because I talk to a lot of people here and there or I might send a voice note or whatever.

And so I ended up creating the spreadsheet and it's just like on the, so x, y axis on the, the launch latitude, left, right to left.

You start with the name.

I have this, this little area called the type of reach out based off of a book.

And I will figure out the book title in a second.

Their business or organization, what do they do?

A link to their website, their email, a social handle, whatever their target audience is, if they're like an entrepreneur or something like that.

The reason why I wanted to connect with them, when did I first reach out to them?

What was our first conversation?

What was the outcome?

Any next steps?

Is there any follow up emails?

It goes a while.

It's not super, super in depth.

I don't go into it for everything, but it helps me realize how did I know this person.

So like, for our lovely host here, I met Kevin through another podcast host and creator, Stephanie, who, who I got introduced to for my friend Beth, who I met Beth through an email marketing group.

So it was, it's that whole link of like, how did I even get to know this person?

Like, how did I even talk to this person?

And as I'm Looking at some of my, the names on the, the spreadsheet, I'm like, oh, these are some people that I haven't talked to in a minute.

You know, I want to reach out to them or, you know, go back to my old emails and be like, oh, wow, when was the last time we talked?

Do we, should we, you know, get back in contact?

Like all of these different things and it's super helpful to know like, just to keep tabs on like, people because it's so easy to just to lose, lose contact.

Especially for folks that you may have not met in person or, you know, they're not like in your like immediate circle just yet or things like that.

So that's something that I do just because, like, I have ADHD and it's hard for me to remember like people like, it's definitely an out of sight, out of mind thing.

Like if I don't, if they're not, if the algorithm hasn't put you on my like feed or, you know, I haven't gotten a recent email, I might be like, somebody talk to that person.

Oh God, six years ago.

You know, it's just, it's so easy to forget.

So it's really nice to just like go back into the networking tracker, go through some of my past emails and be like, oh yeah, I'm talking to this person or you know, I'm offering to do this or you know, different ways to like, you know, have business besties and to do, you know, creative collaborations and different things like that.

Yeah, because you, you can think that you'll remember, but if you're meeting people all the time, it gets so hard to, to remember.

Even within like a week's worth of time, I have to look back.

I made a calendar invite and we're meant to talk and I don't remember.

I have to look.

Oh, that's right.

That's who this person is.

So definitely a way of tracking all of that is something I probably need to work on myself.

I just comb through my emails and hopefully I find it.

If not, I'll, I'll just figure it out.

I honestly, I feel like it's like walking and walking.

I, I don't know how, where I got this like, thought from or like where I read it, but.

Oh, that's right.

I was studying an animation cycle and for nerdy animation reasons.

And walking is literally falling forward like your other foot is catching you before you actually fall.

And so when you walk, you're just falling forward.

Sometimes that's what I, that's what I feel like I'm doing with business.

Like, I feel like I'm just falling forward and just hoping.

Hoping I can sprint.

But for now, we're just gonna.

We're just gonna keep going and hope I don't face plant along the way.

The funny thing is, I think we're all just doing that constantly until you've like developed a system or a pattern of things that work specifically for you.

Because what you do may not work for me.

Right.

Just because it's successful for somebody doesn't mean they'll be successful for everyone.

Especially since everyone is different.

Yeah.

Different connections.

The way that you operate is different.

It's all about figuring out how to best work for yourself.

And there's no one that can teach you how to do that for yourself.

You just have to figure it out.

Yeah.

And that's the.

It's a little scary sometimes because you're just like, like with creative businesses and like, being an artist, like, there's no, like, there are some paths that are kind of laid out, but most of it is just chance, luck, a little bit of like just hoping that someone reaches out, you know, Like, I didn't become an agented children's book illustrator.

Like, I got my agent through referral and it was through chance.

I did a reach out to one of my mentors and he was on a podcast episode and that ended up turning into me co hosting the podcast episode with the host.

And then I reached back out to him saying it was so awesome talking with you.

And he reaches back out to me and says, have you ever considered like, are you agented?

Do you want an agent?

Let me know what you.

Let me know your thoughts.

And I was like, well, I wasn't expecting that.

Sure, let me know, like, what are you thinking?

And so he reaches out to me again and he gives me my current agent's information, like direct email and everything.

And he's like, submit your stuff.

And.

And I.

And I of course, was just like, can I name drop you?

Because I know how this game works.

I definitely need like an if I'm gonna get an in.

I'm gonna take and give me the edge.

I'm gonna take the mile.

Let me name drop you.

And he's like, absolutely.

And so I send reach out again to the agent, introducing myself and introducing my work.

And then, you know, it was the longest four days of my life.

And they reached.

Then they reached back out to me saying, let's chat.

And so if I didn't have that, that muscle of Just, you know, I'm just going to send this email and.

And by the time when you're doing this every day, you kind of forget who you reached out to anyway.

And so it doesn't feel as much of a rejection because you already are already going to have a new person that you're reaching out to every day.

And you're already gonna start like about a week, two weeks in, you're already gonna start getting email responses and things like that.

So it's not as like, scary doing it as.

And it just becomes, it becomes a repetitive thing like riding a bike or falling forward, you know.

Yeah.

It just becomes something that's like, natural to you.

Yeah.

It's so funny because everything that you do is a learned habit or skill that you develop over time.

We expect to be able to do a bunch of things like you said earlier, that you didn't do well on your talk, but that's because you haven't done it before.

And you just need to constantly practice in order to build the skills and the muscles to be able to do it confidently.

Because otherwise there's no reason that you should be able to do it like automatically.

Right.

Unless there's some hidden things that people are obviously built for specifically just as like DNA and whatever.

But everything else we have to actually figure out as we try to attempt to do it a bunch of times.

Yeah, I love that.

I love that so much.

Yeah.

Can you talk about your start into drawing?

Was it as a kid you drew like characters or what was your path from, like a child, you said from the womb to kind of deciding, oh, I can actually start to make money from it?

Because that was also not instant.

Right.

My artwork started off as these like, lying esque Lion King esque monsters was inspired by like Disney movies and video games.

And like my, my main three was like Sonic the Hedgehog, Super Mario and Spyro the Dragon.

Those are like my three, like, you know, core memories of Little Mall.

And I was strictly like an animal artist.

I drew animals, anthropomorphic animals pretty much until I broke into picture books.

And then I had to do like.

I didn't have to do it, but I decided to do like a hard shift into drawing people, which is hilarious because I hated the thought of having to draw five fingers, five fingers and five toes.

It was so hard.

It was so difficult.

So.

But starting through that and just drawing a lot, mostly for pleasure, always for pleasure and for just the inherent need to express myself through art.

But being on DeviantArt and on other websites, I was able to learn that other people did commissions and they did like custom artwork for like, you know, clients.

And I didn't have like this knowledge or terminology, by the way, but it was like seeing the dollar signs of like, the amount of like, custom art for these like, really popular artists.

I was like, wait, what?

You could, you could charge that much for like a piece and, and people have like their commission lists all booked out and I'm like, I want to do that.

You know, and it got to a point too where I was just like, this is the only thing I can do at this point.

You know, I'm grateful that I have like, I guess, fundraising background and I guess I could like, fall into that.

It's not something I want to do.

But like, even when I worked in like an office, a non profit, I honestly wanted to just spend my days drawing anyway, so.

But so I grew up and I tried a little bit of everything.

I did a lot of like, just custom artwork of just like my own, like my own characters and original characters a little bit.

I didn't do like a ton of fan art, but I did a little bit of fan art here and there.

Then I eventually got into, I think I'm missing like a part that I can't remember some other thing that I did in my art world.

But I ended up getting into the convention circuit, like anime cons and video game cons and furry conventions.

And I learned that like, you know, I wanted to sell my original paintings and my original art, and I did, did okay.

And I was still in school and so I didn't really have like this inherent need, but I got into cosplay and also other cool stuff.

And then, you know, people all my life were telling me, oh, get into children's books.

It's so easy.

Like, it'll be.

Your work is totally, you know, into picture books.

Like, you'll be fine.

And I had a choice when I took a mentorship with a business coach named Chris Art business business coach Chris Oatley.

And he had to beat it in my head that I had to pick one.

And it's a good thing he did because his philosophy was like, everything you'll do going forward is going to get you into this industry that you're trying to, that you're trying to break into.

And imagine if you're like hitting a window and you're hitting a window everywhere, each strike is somewhere different.

If you keep hitting it with like, very precise, like very precise, like, actions in the same spot, you'll eventually break in and crack the window.

And that was terrifying.

At the time, I wanted to get into either animation or illustration.

Animation, not necessarily being an animator, but somewhere in the animation industry.

And then illustration was picture books and like, the children's book world.

And ultimately I made the decision for picture books for a few selfish reasons.

Like, I want my name on the book.

Like, in animation, you know, you'll have to scroll and it's like, wait, there is that one millisecond.

There's so it's like I want, like, by Malia Smith on a book.

You know, I have a little bit more control, a little bit more control of like, the.

The final product.

And, you know, it seemed actually a lot less scarier getting into publishing than it did animation, because animation to me felt like such a huge industry, which, honestly, like, looking back, I still think it is a really big industry.

And so I chose.

I was like, okay, then I'm getting into publishing.

But, you know, all those people that were saying, oh my gosh, it's so easy.

You'll be fine.

It's not.

I had to unlearn everything I was drawing for at the time, like, convention, like, Anime con artwork.

So like, basically like artwork of a character looking at the audience, posing cool with cool effects or whatever.

And that's not children's book art at all.

It's all narrative storytelling.

And it's like, how do you tell a story with an.

With one illustration, like for your portfolio or a series of illustrations for your portfolio?

And so I had to learn that character consistency is a big deal.

And my style, or like, the way that I, like, executed my artwork is actually still being in.

Still being molded and crafted.

And I'm still shifting some things.

My huge eyes and little, like, chubby cheeks and stuff, like all of that is shifting a little bit more to fit into the longitivity of being in.

In this industry.

So it's really interesting.

And at first I'll.

I'll be candid.

I had a conversation with my agents about just like, my artwork and like, the.

What they.

What they liked and what could change.

And you know, I am.

I don't know why I'm never good at getting feedback, but it.

It's so annoying to me because it's like, no matter where you are, no matter who you are, like, you have to get feedback.

Like, that's especially in publishing.

Like, like I said, I have a little bit more control, but I don't.

Like, marketing has a say in my book covers and my characters.

And the art director is Going to have a say in how this works and to help me craft this.

And publishers and all these different folks are gonna have opinions and have suggestions and feedback.

In order to actually stay in this industry for long, you have to be able to take feedback and, like, and be a problem solver and be a collaborator.

And for some reason, I'm still learning.

I'm still trying to figure it out, but so I had feedback on, like, just, like, my overall art style, my overall work, what's working, what could change.

And I felt I took it a little too hard, and it.

I needed to take it too hard at first just to kind of go through that, go through those emotions and stuff.

And then now I can't unsee it.

Now I'm like.

And it's not in a bad way, but it's more of.

So, you know, I was grateful that they said, listen, we love your work, but we want.

And we want to make sure that the publishers that we have connections with also love your work.

And the publishers that.

That have been in the game for a long time and the.

The art directors and editors that have been doing this for a while, they have, like, certain specific tastes.

And we want you to fit, like, not even fit closer to it, but we want to make sure that we eliminate the.

As many opportunities for them to say no as possible.

Like, we want to keep you in this thing for the long run.

And so I was like, you know, that's right.

Like.

And so now my.

I guess I would say, like, my energy and my vibe is just.

I trust you.

You know, I. Y' all are my agents.

We have signed this contract.

Y' all are doing all this work for free.

I haven't made a single dollar through, like, since signing with them in August.

Till now, like, I have not made money or have not brought on a project yet.

All of this work that you guys are doing, you know, helping me, like, shape my portfolio and helping my work, it's been free.

And they're just gambling on me.

They're taking a bet to hope that, like, my.

That I'm able to be, like, a Caldecott winner or be able to, like, bring in, like, bigger projects.

So.

So it's kind of trust on both sides.

And so I had to take a, you know, not even a slice.

I had to eat the whole humble cake and be like, yeah, wait a minute.

There's a reason why they're agents.

There's a reason why their agency represents these.

These wonderful illustrators and authors and storytellers.

And there's a reason why they're, they're in this business and they, they know their stuff.

And so, so being a collaborator, having community, like, all of that stuff is super important.

And so that's where I am now.

I'm in the process of like, shifting my work some more, figuring out, rounding out my portfolio as an, as a illustrator, learning how to write.

Because writing is an interesting thing.

Like, how do you tell a story from A to B to C and make it entertaining and storytelling and then just trying to figure out what's the right path for me in terms of, like, my writing process and things like that.

Because I want to be an illustrator and author for my own books as well.

So that's kind of where I am.

Yeah, I think it's so interesting to, to realize that any stage that you, you need to rely on other people, you can't always, especially people who have experience or an eye for the things that do work because essentially they're trying to protect you from a bunch of rejection versus, you know, saying that it needs to change because it's not good.

It's not that.

It's like they know what works and what you can do to improve your odds of getting that contract.

Because I think we can oftentimes be stubborn in the way that we want to do things, but we live in a world where we need to work with other people.

Unless you're doing the whole thing yourself, like, if you choose to publish your own book as the author and illustrator, you can obviously dictate whatever you want to do.

But when we're working with people and for people, it's always important to be able to take feedback in that, take it personally, because it's not personal.

It's never personal.

It's just opinions of other people based on experience.

Right.

And.

And I'll even, like, challenge the fact of, like, you might have all the experience, like, all the control being the author, the illustrator, the publisher, but now you have to sell it.

And you gotta hope that people are going to, like, respond positively to your book because it's good.

And it's really important to get feedback no matter what, because, like, it's ultimately like, if you're making money, it's a business.

And so you have to be able to have, like, feedback from other people to know what's working, to know what people like to know, to kind of and to kind of like, still stay true to yourself.

But also keep in mind of, like, there is a market and there are in the capitalistic world that we live in, There's a market and there is a reason.

There's like, there are things that drive people to buy these stories and buy these books too.

Yeah.

How did you decide to create this stock library of characters and what was the, the opening seed to that and how has it evolved since you first thought of it?

Yeah.

So I am a part of this email marketing group called Email Marketing Membership with Liz Wilcox.

At the time of this recording, she's actually celebrating her fifth year anniversary of doing this.

So there's a lot of cool, like, speakers and people that are like, presenting as a celebration.

And so I joined the Email Marketing Membership, I think last year.

A year ago?

Yeah, something like that.

And, you know, I'm seeing her email marketing membership and it's like $9 a month and every week she sends a email template that you can use to like, shift and like to mold to whatever business that you're, that you're running.

And that helps me because I really wanted to get back into email marketing and just like staying in touch with my folks with my email list.

A little context.

Publishing, before Twitter became not Twitter, publishing was primarily on Twitter.

That was the best way for me to get my work shared, to hop into conversations with art directors, to connect with, you know, authors and illustrators, and to connect with people in the entirety of the industry.

Then Twitter went down in flames and we're all spread out everywhere.

You've got folks on Blue sky, you have folks on Cara, I guess you have folks on like substack and threads and, and there's no like, hub, like central Hub, Blue Sky.

I feel like people are starting to get on there, but I don't, I just still don't see like the, the return on investment for me yet to get on yet another platform.

So.

And I'm, I'm tired.

I don't want to have to get on another platform.

So I was just like, you know what?

I want to have my own thing, like my own way of keeping contact with folks and email list is where it's going to be and the, the next thing is I need to learn how to get people on my email list and then I have to learn how to get people to stay on my email list and what the heck do I talk about every day?

So, or like, you know, every week?

So I joined Email Marketing Membership and I, a few months in, I started talking about like, you know, I like this idea of recurring revenue, but I just don't know, like, what I could offer.

And so Liz ended up tagging someone in Warren Carlisle.

And he just went in, was just like, in a comment and was just like, so here's what I'm thinking.

Like, list of information, all this other stuff, some insights.

And would you like.

I think he said something along the lines of, like, would you be interested in, like, having your own membership somehow, some way being able to provide something through your illustration work or whatever?

And I just sat with that and I was like, I don't know what I could offer.

Like, I could, like, what would that look like?

I don't know.

And so I started thinking about it and I was like, oh, but wait, what kinds of people look for artwork?

You know, and some people that look for artwork are like homeschool parents, educators, authors, entrepreneurs, people who create content on social media, educational programs, not like, small nonprofit organizations.

Like, anyone who has, like, the means to get something.

People who are on Canva and they're making, you know, a literacy program flyer or something.

And so I started thinking about that and I was like, okay, but how can I, like, what can I do?

How can I offer that?

And so I started talking to some author friends and I started thinking about clip art.

And a lot of my author friends are like, people of color.

And they were like, I can't find clip art of kids of color to save my life.

Or I found something on Canva, but it's actually really hard to find more clip art of these kiddos.

Or like, there's no one that, like, actually focuses on creating clip art.

Like, I've.

And I said, okay.

And so I was talking to my best friend about it, and she was like, why don't you do some market research?

So I ended up doing a little bit of research.

I went on Etsy, this website called Teachers Pay Teachers.

And I think Creative Market is another one where you get, like, a lot of different digital assets and stuff and digital downloads.

And I started searching.

I just was like, black kids reading.

Just, just Google.

I just wanted to search black kids reading clip art.

And what I saw was on Etsy, just a bunch of AI, just AI generated imagery.

And to the untrained eye, it looks fine.

But to someone who wants, like, a lot more diversity, you know, the hair, like, hair wasn't as, like, I don't want to say detailed, but there wasn't a lot of nuance in the way that hair is represented.

Like, we.

Especially for, like, folks who have kinkier and coilier hair, there is just so much just hair alone.

Like, you can have hair that's more like that have, like, zigzag coils or are a lot more coarser.

That's like 4C hair or wavier hair or different hairstyles.

So just hair in general.

Then you have skin tone.

Skin tone is just your sim.

Like, the same brown, you know, across, like, all different.

All different kids.

There's no darker skin tones or lighter skin tones.

Heck, if you can tell me if you can find, like, 10 pieces of clip art with a kid with albinism, I'm waiting, you know, So I was like, oh, this is interesting.

Just that alone.

Teachers pay teachers.

You see a little.

You do see, like, a little bit, but not a lot.

Same skin tone.

Hair leaves a lot to be desired.

And not a lot of different body shapes, too.

Body shapes and types.

And.

And this is.

This completely aligned with, like, the types of kids that I wanted to draw my picture books.

I'm like, we.

There's got to be some way to be able to marry these two.

And so I started talking with.

With people and asking them questions, like, would you be interested in, like, clip art that focuses on black and brown kids that you could get in your inbox every week?

You can download it both in full color that's illustrated by me, or black and white, if you wanted to, like, you know, have it on a sheet of paper and, like, print it out and have, like, coloring pages or things like that.

And people were like, yeah.

And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna start this.

And so it started off as just like.

I was talking with Liz and was like, all right, well, I have this idea, but I want to, like, launch it.

And she's like, girl, I am not gonna launch anything or do work unless I'm paid to do it.

And so you need to get people that are going to start that are gonna, like, be your founding members.

And so I did, like, a mini campaign or I think a pretty large campaign.

I didn't even have a name for it at the time.

It was called the Illustration Membership.

And it was just like.

And I didn't know what I was doing really.

I was just like, you get a.

You get clip art, and it's every week, and it's nine bucks a month, and I'm giving it to you for six because I need you to, like, I would love for you to opt in and be, like, my founding member.

And I've had folks are like, yeah, I'm willing to sign up.

And then we just.

And I was just trying to fall forward, figure it out, you know, and just, like, make tiny tweaks along the way.

So originally I would send I.

The way that it's built is it's basically a paid newsletter.

So I use kit.com and that's like my newsletter provider.

Yeah, something like that.

Newsletter provider.

And I just email out the illustrations every week, and I used to send it through, like, a Dropbox link, and that was the way that I did it.

Then I learned that I could actually just give you the direct download in the email.

So that really helped out.

Helped out.

And he's making these tiny tweaks.

So now.

I'm making these tiny tweaks.

And then now I have all of the different themes that are already set up for the rest of the year.

So I literally have, like, themed clip art that I'm creating and collection mini collections throughout the year.

And, you know, I have my members vote on what they want to see next, or I'll have my members vote on the color scheme of what they want the next clipart collection to be.

I even have people, like, send me messages of, like, I'll ask, like, what's missing.

A lot of folks have been saying kids that have, like, different.

That are disabled kids or what is it?

Limb differences.

So I'm now learning about, like, different limb differences and disability tools and different ways and mobility aids just to be able to illustrate that and illustrate that, like, authentically and truthfully.

And so it's now become a bit of a community thing where people are able to send, like, feedback to what they want to see.

And then I'm like, all right, I will.

I'll see what I can do.

I've had folks, you know, have their dogs and cats be featured.

When I did my Kids With Pet series, a member has a limb difference, and so she sent me photos of her hand, and I incorporated that, a character's limb difference into.

Into the clip art.

And so it's just like.

Like, week by week, bit by bit, we're growing this, like, library of illustrations that are gonna, like, diversify the world.

That's amazing.

I think the first big lesson that everyone should take is you can't rely on other platforms to grow your audience, because if that thing ever goes away, you've lost everybody.

So you really need to.

I think that's why everyone still says that email is the best path to keeping in contact with everyone, because everyone needs an email address.

And you also can't control what surrounds you in the feed, so you can be surrounded by stuff you don't agree with.

But as, like, email here, you're essentially building a container and in that container you can control everything within it versus, you know, competing with all this other stuff.

Yeah, I definitely, it got to that point like one Twitter just like blew up in flames.

I was like, oh gosh, are you kidding?

And so like even in my like the children, I consider like my business kind of multi pronged.

So I've got the B2B side which is like the illustrating for like publishers and working with my agent.

And then I have my B2C side which is my clip artwork.

And I, I'm not going to rely on my agents for the B2B side.

I'm going to definitely lean on them for sure.

But I also am noticing that like if I could just collect emails of like art directors and editors and then just send like an email blast like every quarter with like new artwork, that it's just, it's again that marketing of like you're in the discovery phase.

People need to know you exist and then the right time, the right place, a little bit of like fairy dust and magic and like the right time and you're good to go.

Like, and things may happen.

You're kind of creating your own luck.

And then the B2C side of course is just like I definitely want to just have like direct contacts and information with other people because on Instagram, the algorithm, if the algorithm decides that you're not relevant to someone, then you're not going to be shown.

If you don't post, then the, you know, the algorithm decides that you're not relevant.

So your posts are going to be out in the ether or and I'm not saying that like don't do that, but I am very email focused because I feel like that's the most valuable.

Like I don't think I've ever sold something through social media.

Ex.

Okay, maybe except from like a old Kickstarter I did forever ago.

But I've sold more through email than through social media because people are on social to be entertained then you know, than email where you get to just like kind of be a bright spot on someone's in, in someone's inbox and they're looking to actually hear from you.

Yeah, I think that's so important just because you don't know when somebody is going to buy.

So the ability to control when and where they receive a message from you is very important because you can say I want them to see this every month and you have the ability to send whenever you want to so you can really build your campaigns or ideas around specific themes and things and that you don't really have control of, because social media will show whatever it wants to show to anybody, and they can.

They can ban you.

Like a podcaster that I.

A podcast coach that I follow.

He got his threads account banned, and the only reason he was able to get it back was because he had an email list and he said, oh, thank you.

Took away my threads account.

I need you all to spam the threads people and say, this is a real person and he has a real business, and that he got it back only because he had built an audience where he can say, oh, this happened to me, and here's why you need this.

That's wild.

And that's literally.

So I'm in a creative accelerator program right now with, like, we're just a bunch of creators, and we're all.

All, like, growing our businesses together.

And it's hosted by this artist named Kelsey Rodriguez.

And we.

I also have a classmate who is literally in this process right now whose Facebook account just instantly, just randomly got banned, and they've been trying to get it back, and it's just like, this is.

And they're.

They're kind of like, this is annoying.

But, you know, I wasn't on it like that anyway, so it's not so bad, but it's still awful.

Like, I don't like any of this.

Yeah.

And definitely, if you have email, make sure you are downloading that list every so often, because if, say, your account got hacked or something terrible happened, they.

They stop send, letting you send through that specific platform.

You still have those emails that you can take to other places and you're not bound by it.

So definitely have an email list, but also be backing it up at least, like, once a month.

Just so that way.

Okay, you.

You never lose any of the stuff that you've built.

See, and that's another example of you don't know what you don't know.

Like, I just wrote that down.

Like, I need to have that as, like, a recurring reminder.

Even if it's.

Yeah, that's.

That's a definite need.

Yeah.

And I love the fact that you just took a chance on this thing, the subscription, because, you know, there's.

We don't know what's going to work.

And the only way to figure out what could potentially work is to do experimentation and just, you know, be willing to throw stuff at the wall, and if it fails, it fails.

But if you don't take the chance you were going to fail anyways.

That's true.

Yeah.

Like, I think what makes me that gives me so much hope is, like, seeing Liz's membership, like, she's offering something that is very, you know, useful to people and has built a community and has, you know, thousands of people on.

On in this membership alone.

And, you know, it gives me a lot of hope because even though it's very.

It is a marathon.

It's a marathon of just like, person by person by person and hoping that they.

You retain them and all this other stuff, but, like, you know, it.

I don't know if it will be successful, but what I can say is that this year I want to keep things simple.

I just want to talk about my membership and.

Or talk about, like, the clip art that I'm creating.

You know, I ended up doing like, a little, like, you know, design where I just wanted to see, like, all the clip art that I've created since launching in May.

And I've almost illustrated 50 illustrations.

Those 50 consistently of, like, illustrating this thing.

And that's 50 chances of diversity.

Like, 50 different hairstyles, 50 different types of kids.

Like, you know, that 50 different chances of a kid to say, that looks like me, you know, like, that's super cool.

50 Chances of, like, literally like a kid with a.

With a limb difference being just proudly shown on, like, social media graphics or as a coloring page or, you know, for bookmarks or whatever you.

You create clip art on or use, like, different designs on.

And I find that so cool that, like, at the end of this year, you know, it'll be an additional 52 weeks, over a hundred illustrations, like little mini illustrations I've done that is a library of.

Of that can be used.

And if I play my cards right, I can try to work smarter, not harder, by batching, creating it.

Because I have some ideas for some really fun, like, really fun, like collections like kids with dragons or, you know, kids as mermaids and kids' fairies.

And being able to, like, also have, like, really fun, like, like super really fun, like, what is it called?

Themes.

Yeah, that's it.

And if I play my cards right and I, like, build those out, I could have more than 52, like, you know, things that people are looking for or people that are things that they're like.

I didn't even know I needed this until literally today.

I just.

I love being able to.

To offer that and to be able to use my artwork in a way that's a little bit more accessible than the literal tens of thousands of dollars that it takes to hire me to illustrate your children's book.

Yeah, it's so Great that you started this.

Even in the, like, political environment that we're living in now.

It's kind of crazy, the fact that you're starting this up and when the inevitable swing back to your justice and diversity and all this other stuff, you'll have, you'll have that all ready to go.

And people be like, oh, I'm searching for this because no one really wants this, but we are allowed the opportunity to seek that again.

You'll be prime set up for anybody who's looking for that.

So I think that's perfect.

I didn't even think of that, but that's wild.

We're living in wild times.

A couple more questions left.

Yeah.

Do you know anyone else who personally runs a standout creative business and what do they do to stand out?

Yes, I wrote that down because I was like, I don't want to forget my friend Ness.

Her name is Vanessa, and she teaches creators on, like, surface pattern design.

And she was like the first artist that I really met that I was like, oh, she gets it.

She gets art and business.

And under, like, she, her and I will have, like one on one conversations.

And I like, as a store, this little mini story time.

Dear listener.

I was talking about my clip art and we were talking about the membership, and we're just like, you know, I still want to keep it at $9 a month for now.

I don't know if it'll change.

It may not.

It may, but I just want to keep it, you know, accessible.

And so I was like, well, and we were talking about pricing for the individual packs that I would in, you know, inevitably sell just as one offs.

And so we're like, throwing different numbers around.

I was like, maybe like, you know, $19.

She's like,$19.

She's like, that doesn't make sense.

And I was like, well, I mean, you know, I was like, I want to make sure that this is still accessible.

And I, you know, sometimes, still, even as a fundraiser and even as like a person who is like a business person, like, I still feel funky about money sometimes.

And she's like, you're offering something that does not exist.

Like, you're literally creating something that is handmade, that is unique, that someone is looking for.

You need to raise your price.

And she.

And that still sticks to me till this day.

We've had this conversation like, eight months ago, and I'm still like, I'm still.

Like, grappling with it.

Yeah, I'm still grappling with it, but I'm like, accepting it, like, she's right, you know, and so Ness, she ended up hosting this entire, this entire like, art creative summit and found a bunch of like, art creative businesses and all different people to speak on, on different topics.

And I, I spoke to other creatives about like, my membership and how I wanted to break the mold of not falling into the trap of teaching other artists, which if that is someone's business, totally fine.

But I started like my.

It was easy for me to start talking about what I knew, and then it started.

And because of that, that meant that I started attracting other artists.

But they're not my target market, they're not my target audience, they're not the people that would pay me unless I really leaned into that and I didn't want to.

So she's been like my like biz bestie with creates with creativity.

So I think NASA's a standout creative.

Awesome.

What's one extraordinary book, podcast, tool, or other resource that has had the biggest impact on you?

Let's see if I can find it.

Reach out book.

I hope I can find it.

Oh, there it is.

Oh, I love that.

Okay.

It's called reach out.

The simple strategy you need to expand your network and increase your influence by Molly Beck.

This book was the start of me, like doing those daily reach outs via email.

And she breaks it down in this like really cool way of like, here's a type of reach outs that you can do.

Like, you can do a reach out where you've already talked to this person and they're already like in your circle and they know that you exist.

You could do this follow up reach out, which is like you go to an event and you know, let's say you go to a in person or virtual event and you reach out to them and saying like, oh, so nice to meet you, blah, blah, blah, let's have coffee one or one on one or whatever.

I don't know the name of this one, but it's like you're reaching out to somebody who you don't know who would be like your magnum opus.

Like, oh my gosh, this like influencer or you know, like, if I were to ever do a collaboration with like Color Me Courtney or you know, like somebody who I look up to and I just send an email, like those types of reach outs.

And she even breaks down the strategy of like, how you can do it.

So like those, the pie in the sky, like reach outs, those are, can be like once a month just to, just to do it.

And then everybody else could be this or like you know, you'll have a higher success rate if you reach out to folks you already know versus those who you don't, and then things you can ask for.

And so I really like that book.

It was really easy to, like, grasp.

And it.

It's not this, like, book that makes you think, oh, I don't know what the heck this.

This author is talking about.

Awesome.

There is another book that I would recommend based on that.

It's called Rejection Proof.

In this, there's this guy who essentially gave himself the challenge to get rejected, like, a hundred days in a row, and he constantly escalated the type of ask and how hard it would be.

Um, oh, my goodness, it's.

And he has a TED Talk that you can find that also talks about it.

But what he learned is that it doesn't really matter, and there's no reason not to make the ask.

You just have to build that muscle just like every other muscle.

And there.

There was a group that I was part of, but I. I figured out that I was getting way too many yeses and I couldn't.

So I guess I think I need to reach higher or, you know, reach for the stars instead of for whatever's on the.

The shelf.

Yeah, I love that.

I.

You know, there are some things I'm just like, oh, like, I would love to, like, illustrate a board game.

Like, one of my favorite board games ever is Flamecraft, and the artwork just makes my heart, like, three.

Three times.

S. Three sizes too big.

And I just.

And I would love to be able to do something like that where, like, all of my artwork is, like, on a board game or, you know, a puzzle or, like, things like that.

And so I want to be able to just throw it out there and.

And follow up, of course, because, you know, the first step is the actual, like, reach out, and the second step is, like, the follow up.

And then after that, like, you know, become the queen, king, royalty of following up.

Because, like, I.

Like I said earlier, like, an hour ago, like, people are busy, and, you know, it's.

It's all right.

Time, right place.

You know, they might.

You might have gotten, like, sent the email and they read it and they're like, oh, this is great.

And then their kid starts crying, and it's like, okay, now I have to, like, focus on this and on the wayside, right?

Or, you know, like, you're like, me with, like, 20 million tabs open.

And, you know, my sister calls me and I'm like, oh, yeah, hi.

Says, blah, blah.

And I'm.

And I Step away.

Then you reach out again, and you're like, that's right.

I needed to get in contact with this person.

And then, you know, and even if you fall off the wayside again, like, three months down the line, six months down the line, reach back out, like, there's no harm unless you just don't get anything back at, like, at all.

At all.

And then you're like, all right, I'm gonna just, like, take a break for, like, a few months or a year or whatever.

But even so, being able to do that and reach out and follow up.

Following up is so important, just in general, like, it's so, so important.

Yeah.

You would never have gotten your agent if you had not said yes to the.

That's a random podcast.

So you never know.

Just constantly communicate and meet people who are, you know, interested in helping you and you helping them.

And, you know, like, as a society, we can all just do better.

Yeah.

And that was actually.

So the podcast I was on was from a friend named.

Named Nancy Miller.

She's an author, illustrator, and she hosts my Creative Life podcast.

And so she talks to other, you know, creatives in the publishing industry about their journeys and.

And about their books.

And we were on a podcast, and she was saying, like, she would really love it if she could have this particular guest.

And I was like, oh, my gosh, you should totally reach out to that guest.

Like, I was like, the only.

I was like, if he says no, the only reason why he would say no is because he's busy.

Like, and that's usually his.

Like, he's, like, super busy all the time.

Like, we.

Like, his name is London Ladd, and he actually lives in the same city I live in.

And we've only met in other, like, events because he's so busy outside of our city.

And so.

And I.

Actually, that's what gives me a reminder.

I need to reach out to him and be like, can we have coffee?

Like, we're in the same city and I'm not traveling.

And ideally, you're not traveling, and let's make something work.

And so she was just like, I don't know.

I'm really nervous.

And I was like, listen, the only way he would say no is because of this one reason.

Like, I'm.

I'm, like, 98.9% sure he's going to say yes.

So she reaches out and he says yes, and I'm like, yes, I told you so.

Now a guest on their podcast.

And so she told me, like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited.

And so I was like, I told you it'd be totally great.

Like, it's gonna be great.

I'm so excited.

She was like, would you want to co host this podcast?

And I was like, oh, yeah.

And so then after that, I ended up following up with London and asking him and then he, you know, and then that's when it all like, happened.

And so it's like that.

Building your community and building your community and then also just being able to follow up with folks.

Awesome.

What do you think makes a creative business stand out and what have you done to make yourself stand out?

Basically that you're building a community and zigging where people zag.

You know, as a creative, as an illustrator too, like, it's easy for me to focus on like being on podcasts and, or not even focus on being a podcast, just like, you know, being an illustrator and then just like focusing all on like my portfolio, which right now I'm like in like my promotion phase where it's like, people need to know that I exist and so I will, I'm not afraid to like, be on podcasts or public speak or, you know, do webinars and workshops or be on Instagram Live or, you know, all these things that like, you know, stereotypical, and I say this in air quotes, creatives might shy away from.

You know, whenever my book comes out, like whenever I like get a book deal and do the, all the things, like, I'll tell my, my publishers, like, yeah, no, like, I have a long history of being on podcasts and talking and sharing things and speaking and whatever.

So if you have anything with the marketing team, like, put me in contact, we can do this together.

Like, I, I run a business.

I don't just draw.

So you know that like, having that mentality is really important.

Building community.

I know I promised us like 30 minutes ago of like, what do you actually do to build community?

How does one do such a thing?

Offering to help.

So you, like, when you're doing your reach outs and you say, is there anything you're working on and how can I help you with that thing?

And then you can list little things like, I think I have good strength in like helping folks like ideate and brainstorm, either like ideating and brainstorming or, you know, next steps or like, there's a bunch of different things that you can do to help people out.

And so you ask them, like, is there something you're working on or something that you're stuck on and can I, like, I would Love to help you out with that.

Following up is also a good way to keep them in the community.

Finding a way to keep in contact with folks and then, you know, sharing resources if you can.

So, like, I don't know, if you are at your local bookstore and you love your bookstore and you wanted to, like, make a post on social media about it and tag them in it, or even now, at the time of this recording, there's this really cool thing that Instagram is doing, which is like a. I think it's like a collaboration post, so you can have it, like, on your.

Your audience and the other person's audience.

And that's something I'm going to heavily lean into if while I'm on Instagram.

And that's just one way to be able to just, like, kind of give back.

And so that's one way to stand out and in doing all of.

Just doing this whole entire thing where it feels like you're in a silo as a creative.

Yeah.

I think it all comes back to being, like, a kind and generous person, like, just to be a good person and hopefully things will turn out, because if you're the opposite of it, no one wants to work with you.

Yeah.

Like, the only way you can get in a creative industry by being a butthead is if you, like.

If you're really, really good.

Like, like really good.

And someone's like, I don't like that.

I don't like Malquia's personality, but, oh, God, she actually gets the work done and gets it done fast and gets it done good.

So, all right, email and hire her.

Like, that's the only way you can get through this industry.

So you're good fast and not even on time.

You have to be good fast and before on time.

Then you can be a butthead all you want.

I guess.

That not even.

That takes a long time to be that good.

Right.

Sure does.

You just learn to be that good so that you can be, like, a dick about it.

It's either that or somebody who is, like, nicer and actually more pleasant to work with will take your job because.

Yeah.

Do you have a challenge that you want to present to people in order for them to stand out?

Yeah.

Think about, my dear listener, think about maybe the last five people or even 10 people that you've connected with, talked to, DM'd, messaged, met in person, and write them down.

Think about what your goal is.

And you can have multiple goals because you're gonna have multiple people in your life, too.

Think about your Goals and what you are that you would like to accomplish and see how those folks can help you do that and if they, that connects, if that works.

So for example, the last person I talked to is a bookstagrammer and I want to see if there is a way that we can collaborate together.

So and my goal is to spread the word about my, my clip artwork.

So now we've got a nice line or a nice little like through line of that.

Now let's send an email.

The next step, the next challenge is go to our library, buy the book, whatever.

I don't get a commission for the book, but apparently audio I don't really get on the Amazons, but apparently there's audiobook membership trial, I don't know.

You know, get that book, reach out.

The simple strategy you need to expand your network, increase your influence, read it and then craft an email.

And she actually has like, also like a little email template that you can use too.

Craft the email, send it, like close your eyes and just press send.

And then, then do the next person and try the next person.

But the first step is just thinking about the types of people in your ecosystem that you worked with.

One thing that I've actually started doing too was even if that person is not like able to help me because there are some like just it like a person is like an insurance salesperson that I met at a networking event.

We don't really have a lot in common in terms of that and that that's their focus this.

But I, I, I have had insurance salespeople connect me with educators or connect me with like other people.

So I always ask like, do you know anybody who can, that I, I could be connected to or can you introduce me to people?

And that's a way to grow your, your pool of people that know that you exist.

Awesome.

Well, Makui, this has been incredible talking to you.

You have a fantastic story.

Good luck to you on your, your illustrations, your books, your clip art, all that stuff.

Where can people keep up to date with all the stuff you're doing?

Awesome.

Thank you so much for joining me and for my dear listener, thank you for just like spending this hour and a half with me and Kevin.

You can find me on my website@pretty Kittypainting.com if you're interested in getting free clip art.

I actually have, I'm gifting clipart.

If you sign up for my email list, if you're on that website on the right hand side, it's going to say free clip art.

Big pink button, you can't miss it.

And you sign up and you can get instant download of, you know, of my work and we can stay in touch that way.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Well, thanks again for coming on.

It's been such a a fun time.

Thank you.

Okay, bye.

All right, we did it.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Standout Creatives.

If you're feeling stuck, let's chat and see how we can help you start standing out instead of burning out.

You can sign up for a free strategy [email protected] if you want to keep up to date with everything I'm working on, including interviews, essays and upcoming projects, head to standoutcreativebusiness.substack.com and if you have any thoughts on this episode or just want to chat, you can follow me on Instagram.

StandoutCreativeBusiness.

Thanks again for tuning in and as always, lean into your creativity and curiosity.

I'll see you again on the next episode.