Shownotes
Okay, Actually is a show about what’s really going on at work — and what we can do about it. New episodes come out every other Thursday and are always under 30 minutes.
In this episode, I’m joined by Tristen Stawicki to talk about what founders bring into their businesses and what happens when their insecurities, habits, and struggles with trust become part of everyone else’s working day.
Tristen brings corporate product leadership experience and an MBA to her work as a coach, astrologer, and certified shaman. Our conversation makes room for all of that. We talk about astrology, what she calls energetic blocks, and the discomfort that can come with getting something you thought you wanted.
We also get very practical, discussing: hiring talented people without giving them authority, telling different stories to employees and investors, retreating into familiar work as a business grows, and rebuilding trust through changes people can actually see.
Whether you’re a founder, a leader, or someone working closely with one, we dig into the questions everyone should be asking to bring their best energy to work.
00:00 A Process Map and a Birth Chart
02:14 When a Process Fix Isn’t Enough
04:41 Founder Culture, Vulnerability, and Bravado
06:30 What Soul Work Looks Like
08:40 Exploring Energetic Blocks
11:51 Hiring Great People — and Getting in Their Way
15:31 Retreating Into the Work You Know
18:56 Taking Accountability Without Losing Credibility
21:13 What Are You Still Saying Yes To?
Questions to take with you
- What am I asking to change?
- What am I still doing that makes that change harder?
- What am I willing to do about it?
About Tristen
Tristen Stawicki guides women at a crossroads, bringing together practical strategy and intuitive insight. She has an MBA, a background in corporate product leadership, and is a certified shaman in the Q’ero tradition and a trained astrologer.
She is the creator of the Musings and Modalities™ framework and host of the podcast Musings & Modalities. Her work supports leaders and entrepreneurs navigating transformation, burnout, and questions about what they want to build next. She also works as a fractional chief product officer.
Connect with Tristen
Find me
Transcripts
After I talked with Tristen Stawicki, I found myself thinking about
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the best way to introduce this episode.
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We spent our time talking about
trust and delegation and founders
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getting in their own way.
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We also talked about astrology
and energetic blocks,
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and I thought, "I probably need to
let people meet a little more of my
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woo-woo side," because I actually
have one, which may surprise you.
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Um, I don't know that 25-year-old me
would have expected that, but with more
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life experience and, and love and loss
has come not always having textbook
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explanations and being comfortable looking
in less conventional places for answers.
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And often, when I've done so, I've,
I've gotten the answers I needed.
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I spend a lot of time thinking about
systems and how to make things work
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better, but I'm also really curious about
intuition and energy and why we can want
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something and still feel uncomfortable
with what getting it might ask of us.
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So it is possible to be interested
in a process map and a birth chart.
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There's room for both.
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Tristen has such a great background.
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She brings corporate product leadership
experience and an MBA to her work as a
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coach, astrologer, and certified shaman.
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She also hosts Musings & Modalities,
which is a podcast where I recently
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joined her for a conversation.
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You'll hear her talk about what
she calls energetic blocks,
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including the feeling that receiving
more may not always feel safe.
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What interested me was how this
shows up at work, wanting support,
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for example, while struggling to
give someone else real control.
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We get into hiring talented people
and then getting in their way,
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retreating into the work we already
know how to do, and what rebuilding
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trust truly requires from a leader.
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I'm Karen Doak, and this is OK Actually,
a show about what's really going on
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at work and what we can do about it.
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And here is my conversation with Tristen.
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Tristen, I'm so glad to have you here.
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I really enjoyed being on Musings
& Modalities with you, and I'm excited
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to continue the conversation.
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So I wanna start with something
that you've said, um, which is
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just that insecurities are rampant
in every business, and there's no
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single system that can fix them.
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So where do you most often see founders
reaching for a process fix when the real
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issue is something like trust or values?
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Tristen Stawicki: Hmm,
that's a great question.
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And thank you so much for having me here.
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I adore you, and every time we get to
talk, it's just the highlight of my week.
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Um, with larger companies, and I'm
talking, you know, over 200 employees,
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the distance you have from a founder,
from a CEO can sometimes, like, keep
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you insulated from their insecurities.
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It really seems like those in
their inner circle, especially
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at work, feel it the most.
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But when you're at a smaller company,
when you're working directly with
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a founder, um, you know, many of…
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I've been a, you know, the first
product hire, um, in my corporate days.
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Uh, many of my friends that are
still on that path, you know, work
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directly with founders, and as they've
climbed up, climbed up the ladder,
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they see this where a founder goes,
"What software can we purchase?
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What consultant can we pay?
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Who can we bring in?"
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When in reality, they're not
necessarily doing their inner work.
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They're not necessarily healing the parts
of themselves that don't communicate well.
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That's a big one.
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They'll often bring in a business
partner or try to expand their
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business and form relationships.
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, and when they're people in their
personal life that have not had
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luck in relationships, have maybe
have had multiple marriages.
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And oftentimes when I, when I talk about
this, people go like, "Oh, I've never
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thought about that," which absolutely
fair, but it really is indicative of
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kind of those, those core traits that
make, um, a founder that is, you know,
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high trust, that matches my own values.
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You know, typically when you're
working with a founder that you,
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you really believe in and you can
see that they're on that path and
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trajectory of doing great things, um,
it's often people that have strong
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relationships in their personal life.
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Um, maybe they've gone through
this a few times, um, or have been
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set up for success in other ways.
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And those that, you know, have a
high sense of distrust don't give
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their team or their, um, their
executive teams especially autonomy.
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You can really see that play
out in their relationships both
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personally and professionally
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Karen Doak: That makes perfect
sense, and I've definitely
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experienced that, , myself.
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And I, I wonder too, just founder culture
in general, what things people are sharing
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with each other that may get to that
point of like, you don't need to have a
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million friends if you're spending all
of your time on your startup or your
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business or whatever, that may be sort
of reinforcing some of the negative
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that you're even mentioning there
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Tristen Stawicki: Definitely.
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And I also find that male presenting
founders, , they, they typically struggle
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to share their insecurities, or they might
do it with maybe a close friend or their,
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their spouse or partner if they have one.
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, Where I find that women presenting
founders tend to be more open, um,
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especially in their networking groups,
especially like you and I are very open
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about where we're growing in our business.
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You know, I've talked about it,
and, um, it seems to be this level
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of vulnerability that's a bit more
comfortable, for specific founders.
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, And it seems to be that fake bravado is
probably great with investors, right?
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It's really great for getting funding.
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It's really great to build a
rocket ship and things like that.
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Um, but in building something
that has stability and building
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something that's a true legacy,
that's, that's not the same traits.
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And that's really fascinating as you
find people that gravitate towards,
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"Oh, I wanna build a startup.
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I wanna sell it immediately.
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You know, I wanna just be on this kind
of truly rocket ship for three to five
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years, and I'm off to my next project."
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Versus those of us that wanna build
something that is, you know, maybe
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it isn't in our life forever, but is
something that we really wanna put
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time and intentionality into because we
know it's going to have lasting impact
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Karen Doak: I love that.
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, And I hadn't thought about some of
the differences that you brought up,
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but I've definitely seen that too.
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you know, lot of this sort of comes
back then, and you're talking about
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building trust and being authentic and
being vulnerable and sharing things to,
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you know, being able to actually, , do
some work on your soul and come from
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this, that more authentic space.
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So what does soul work actually look
like, and how do you help founders or
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business leaders see it and see the value?
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Tristen Stawicki: Yeah, that's
such a beautiful question.
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I find it really expansive, both
the work I've done myself on myself,
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in addition to working with coaches
and the work I do for my clients.
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Um, I, I'm someone that I've done, you
know, four years of really intensive,
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, EMDR therapy, and with soul work,
it's really a lot of unlearning.
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It's really a lot of coming back to self.
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Um, it's creating a, a space
of safety, of fully being seen.
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I like to say there's, there's really
no taboo subject in working with me
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because, um, so often people feel the
need to edit or hide parts of themselves.
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Um, and that really isn't helpful
in the kind of work that I'm doing
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because ultimately that shadow side
is, is gonna come up in some way,
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whether you plan for it or not.
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So I'd much rather openly talk about it,
address it, um, and see what needs to
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be integrated and, and perhaps what's
actually helpful or a gift for you
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Karen Doak: How, if, if I were working
with you and you were li- trying to kind
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of uncover that, w- where do you start?
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What, where, where do you go first to
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Tristen Stawicki: I, yeah, I
love starting with a birth chart.
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, So I'm a trained astrologer.
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, I, I worked with incredible mentor,
KJ Atlas, who's absolutely wonderful.
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And since then, I found it to
be that thing that is so far
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beyond a personality test.
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It's not us saying, "How do I feel today?
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Do I feel introverted?
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Do I feel extroverted?"
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There's no guessing.
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It's very much a snapshot of the, of
the sky and the planets at the time
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of your birth, and that, that time
is very, very important, um, for
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that kind of the layout of the chart.
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And I find the way people resonate with
the truth in their chart of how their
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placements could show up in their life,
, in not a prescriptive way, but just say
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very much, "Does this relate to you?
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Does this resonate?
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How have you seen this?"
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And it really gives them the opportunity
to reflect on their experiences in
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a way that they often don't get to.
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And so it's just a beautiful
kind of uncovering of a soul.
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, Karen Doak: When we were talking
in the past, , we talked about
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sort of the difference between an
energetic block and a mindset issue.
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So when you say an energetic block,
what do you mean and, and what might
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someone notice in their day-to-day
experience to actually sort of
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see or experience that themselves?
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Tristen Stawicki: Absolutely.
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So I often see this in terms of
wealth blocks for other people.
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, And in working with someone, for instance,
where they're like, "I, you know, I, I
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wanna make, um, above six figures, and
I just can't seem to get, you know…
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I, I'm doing everything possible.
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I'm, I'm networking.
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I'm, you know, showing up,
interviewing, getting hired," and
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they're right at the 189 mark.
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You know what I mean?
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Not above the 200,000 mark or, you
know, whatever they wanna be at.
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And it's really saying like, "Oh,
there's actually an energetic blockage.
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I can feel your level of abundance.
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You don't feel safe kind of having that
come into your world, and so nothing
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about that, that number or level of
abundance is being attracted to you.
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You're actually repelling it."
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Karen Doak: In terms of addressing the
block, is, is the first step to that,
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like, acknowledging that it's there?
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Or, or you know, how does someone
approach it if they, if they're
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realizing that that is what's happening?
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Tristen Stawicki: Yeah, so it, it
is very much, , acknowledging it,
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seeing in the patterns they've had
in their life, and then removing it.
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So that removal could be, , kind
of working through the truth and
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replacing that kind of limiting
belief with the truth of, of how they
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feel safe and working through that.
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'Cause ultimately something like an
energetic block is there's a level
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of truth or a nugget of truth to
it that is so needed to uncover.
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And so I never wanna say like,
"Oh, we removed something from you.
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There's nothing to learn here."
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It's always, you know, there's something
to be removed here, but there's something,
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some wisdom from it that we really need
to sit with, we really need to integrate,
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Karen Doak: If a founder keeps getting
stuck, how do you sort through whether
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they need practical support, , a mindset
shift in how they're thinking, or as
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you've talked about, energetic work?
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How do you kind of uncover what
the starting point needs to be?
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Tristen Stawicki: I always start
with what they, what are the
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stories they tell themselves, um,
before I start looking externally.
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That, because no matter what process
you put into place or what software or
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what people you bring in, there is…
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If there's a limit in the founder's
thinking, and there's so, especially
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many of them tie their identity to the,
the businesses that they've founded.
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Um, so I really wanna start there because
ultimately it's not enough to kind
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of solve their next three decisions,
we need to solve their next 10.
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And if they're in the wrong state of mind
for that or making decisions from a place
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of lack, making decisions from a place of
mistrust, it's not gonna get any better.
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And actually that would be a disservice
to any people I'd be bringing in there or
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any upleveling to the business because y-
the container won't be able to hold it.
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, And so the founder is such a key
component to success, especially for a
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business that has under 20 employees,
under 50 employees, that I really wanna
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make sure they're set up for success,
especially if they're someone that has a
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couple different businesses at one time.
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Karen Doak: That's really interesting.
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So I'm wondering just if you could
give some examples maybe of, of the
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patterns that show up again and again,
either in the behavior of the founder
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or in, um, the environment of the
organization or, or whatever else.
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What are the patterns that you see are
consistent with founders who haven't
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really done their, their own inner work?
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Tristen Stawicki: Yeah.
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Um, a really prevalent example of this
is when they hire brilliant people and
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don't give them the space to succeed.
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So they won't hand off tasks that are
actually at the level of their role.
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So they, for instance, they'll hire a
chief product officer, bring them in,
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but the founder wants to stay close to
the product, um, especially if they have
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product experience themselves, and they
never allow the chief product officer to
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fully own the roadmap, um, to fully own
a, a team if they're able to build one.
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And so you can see where the founder…
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You know, if every decision still flows
through the founder for one specific
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kind of piece of the business, that's a
really great, um, kind of red flag to me
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to go like, "Oh, there's some, there's
some things to kind of work on here.
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There's a bit of insecurity or…"
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You know?
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Um, because there are brilliant people
available for every role, right?
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And so if you've hired well, they're a
culture fit, all of those things, you
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know, the handoff should be a no-brainer,
and typically that gets very, very sticky.
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Um, the second piece is when they, um,
two-faced is a strong term, but what
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they say to investors and the board
and people outside of kind of the
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day-to-day business and the promises
they make, um, versus what they tell
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the business or, um, are listening to
customers, um, is a very big red flag.
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Because if they're not acting with
integrity, if they're not kind of having
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consistent messaging to both their
employees and to, you know, um, those
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that they are, you know, responsible,
uh, to, to kind of steward the money
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that's been invested and things like
that, I've often seen that's, um,
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indicative of layoffs needing to happen,
over-expanding, over-indexing on employees
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in some way, over-investing in areas
that are probably going to fall apart.
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Um, and that's been really
fascinating 'cause I've seen
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that play out two or three times.
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Um, and you can just start to see
kind of the, the red flags go.
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And that isn't to say that every single
thing that happens in a board meeting
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sh- be shared with every employee.
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Karen Doak: Right
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Tristen Stawicki: But there's a level
of messaging and consistency that when
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it-- there's an inexperienced founder
especially, um, or maybe someone that,
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um, you know, is, is not the right
founder for the business, which, which
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happens, is not the right shepherd for
the idea, um, and you can, you can really
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see, like, that's gonna end poorly for
literally every single person involved.
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Karen Doak: I, um, first of all,
have experienced both of those things
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and, and the first circumstance you
described, one where a founder hires
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great, great people, great leaders, and
then doesn't trust them to do the work.
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of the cycles I've, I've seen there is
they then blame the people for like,
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«You're not taking it off of my plate.
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You're not able to remove
me from the situation.»
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And, and also it kind of does connect in
a little bit to the second piece, which
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is that if you are telling different
stories to different people, really
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be pulled out because you're the only
person who knows, who knows what and
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what the truth is and everything else.
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And so, um, those are two
great red flags and, and two
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that I've seen play out myself
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Tristen Stawicki: And it's also
interesting when a founder doesn't
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understand their job is sales,
and that's a huge, huge red flag.
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'Cause ultimately as a CEO, your
job is to be the face and you sell.
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And so you can hire, you know, chief
sales officers, chief revenue officers,
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and things like that, but you being with
a customer, that's, that's what it is.
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That's the role.
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Um, and when they wanna, you know,
put on a hat and be in operations
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or product or any other role and
you're like, "You actually can't.
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Every time you're doing that,
you're putting the future, um,
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of our operations at risk."
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Karen Doak: Do you think that's-- I mean,
as you said, that's putting other parts
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of the business at risk, but what do you
think a founder might be afraid would
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happen if they stopped operating that way?
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Because, because we're able to see this
pattern, and maybe they don't want to
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address the inner work or they don't
understand that that's an actual problem
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here, but, but they do see that their
current way of operating doesn't work.
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So there must be some fear
or something motivating it.
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I don't know if that's something you've
given thought or have perspective on.
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Tristen Stawicki: Absolutely.
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Yeah, I've actually coached several
founders that, um, struggled with this.
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Um, part of it was visibility.
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They wanted to go to the thing
that they knew they were good at.
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So, you know, in their time
at corporate, they were in
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another executive role, right?
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And so they came up through the ladder
of operations or a product, and I've
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had either instance, um, in my clients,
and they go, "But, but I see the
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problems there, and I can fix them."
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And I go, "That is great for you
to highlight for the people that
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you're paying for that role.
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You know, it's a great call-out.
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It's a great way to give guidance,
and it's actually not the
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problem that you need to solve.
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You need to let other people solve
that problem while you go do what
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you need to do because there's
no one else that can do that."
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Karen Doak: Right
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Tristen Stawicki: Um, and
selling's hard, right?
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It's something that I myself as a founder
am still working to get better at.
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Um, it's incredibly vulnerable.
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There's a lot of, um, risk that can
go into it, especially if you…
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I've also seen, right, where founders
aren't close enough to a product and are
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selling things that they don't understand.
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And so, you know, selling is a challenge
both ways, where you're really close
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to your business and perhaps too close,
so you can't see what the dream can be.
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And then also they go, they'll talk about
something that's not at all in the reality
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of what's been built and what their,
you know, their business actually does
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Karen Doak: Yeah, and some of it I think
goes along with maturation of a company
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that when they were operating in a smaller
scale and they were driving most of the
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product or service that was delivered,
um, they actually had to control the
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output better, faster, et cetera.
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And once you have more people in,
once the product is more complex or
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the service has more layers in terms
of how it's delivered, um, some of
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those quick changes aren't possible.
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So it, it, it's sometimes hard for
them to realize and accept the level of
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growth that's happened that's removed
them from what was working before.
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Tristen Stawicki: Absolutely.
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Karen Doak: working.
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Tristen Stawicki: Well, and
I also, and, and to be clear,
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oversight's important, right?
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Ultimately, you are on the line.
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So I, I'm never advocating for you to
get further away from your customers,
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not have an understanding of the
customer feedback, not getting reporting
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from your reports to make sure you
are, you know, still understanding
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what's happening on the day-to-day.
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That can all still happen and should be.
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And also, you have to see the next
level of dreaming and possibility
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for the business to keep it thriving
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Karen Doak: Absolutely.
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Once a, a founder recognizes their
part in that pattern, assuming that
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happens, um, what do they owe the,
the people that have been affected
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or the people in the organization?
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Or what kind of behavior change
do, do you think they need to show,
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um, to, to fix that, the trust?
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Tristen Stawicki: Absolutely.
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Yeah, especially when
it's something like trust.
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Um, so a perfect example
would be the autonomy.
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You know, um, you've hired great
people and you go, "Oh, I, I see I'm
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recreating patterns that I had in
corporate that I actually hated, and
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that's why I'm an entrepreneur now.
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But that was kind of what I grew up with.
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That was my training.
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That's my baseline.
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I don't wanna do that anymore."
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And so I always advocate and coach them to
be really transparent on where this change
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is coming from, acknowledge how they can
do better, and you can do that in a way
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that doesn't completely blow up your ego.
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You can own- you can take ownership
and accountability without
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losing your credibility and the
authority you have in your role.
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Um, and I really recommend doing that
kind of one-on-one with people, um,
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especially because you can, you can
really get feedback in a safer way,
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especially if there's not been trust.
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And then you own what the next steps are
that you're gonna do, because ultimately
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your words, you know, can, can feel
very shallow at that point unless you
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back it up with immediate and actionable
change that is actually helpful.
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Um, I also make sure that the people
that are advising them, and they
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should have several advisors, right?
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Not just me.
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They should have a number of mentors, um,
that help them, and they really reflect
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on who they've outgrown and maybe who
gave them advice that would kind of enable
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them staying on the path of mistrust or…
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You know what I mean?
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Things like that.
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Um, and that's been really helpful to say
like, "Oh, was that your idea and your
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thought, or were you following the advice
of someone that has been successful but
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maybe that was, you know, 15 years ago?"
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And now the way people like to
be managed and the way business
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is run is actually very different
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Karen Doak: Makes sense.
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And, and exactly.
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There's, there is so much change that's,
that's occurred, not in terms of just how
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business needs to be run, but also the
workforce that's there today and their
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expectations and what they, what they
expect to see in terms of how leaders
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communicate and interact with them.
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Um, a founder or future founder
takes one, like, key action, uh,
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or piece of information from this
conversation, what, what should it be?
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Tristen Stawicki: It's the exact same
advice I would actually give every
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single person, you know, regardless,
is like find one thing that you're
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really dreading for this week, right?
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And see where you can delegate
it, where you can let it go, and
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where you can fill your time with
something that replenishes you.
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'Cause oftentimes, whether you're a
founder, you know, or in the corporate
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world, there's this level of, of
just stuff that we just keep on our
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plate, and it, it's because of habit.
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You know, it's because of,
"Oh, we've always done it.
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Oh, if I don't do it, no one else will."
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And so I really say, like, choose just
one thing for this week, but really start
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to have a habit of looking at what you're
saying yes to, because, uh, whether or
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not you, you feel like you're actively
taking something on, you're, you're still
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choosing to have it continue in your life.
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That's an active yes.
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And get really, really, like, look
yourself in the mirror with that, um,
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and see where you can cut quite a lot.
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Karen Doak: I love that advice.
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I-- The number of inherited
responsibilities and commitments that
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we have that they were right three
years ago, five years ago, three
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months ago, but are so slow to actually
cut, and we are so quick to add.
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And, um, I, I love that advice overall.
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Tristen, this has been such a great
conversation, and I think you've obviously
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been able to demonstrate your perspective
is, is really unique, um, being able
401
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to blend, I think, uh, you know, heavy
product tech corporate experience and then
402
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also, um, really the more let's go with
woo-woo or touchy-feely side of things
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in terms of being a trained shaman and,
and, uh, astrologer and everything else.
404
00:23:14,234 --> 00:23:18,144
Um, can you share more with people
about how they can work with you or,
405
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or any other parts of your business?
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00:23:19,934 --> 00:23:22,874
We will definitely have links in
show notes, but would love people
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to hear from you about your work.
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Tristen Stawicki: Absolutely.
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Thank you so much.
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, So part of my work, I'm actually a
fractional chief product officer,
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so I'd love to work in that capacity
to kind of take, , both the mindset
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and my actual corporate background,
, to in-incredible companies.
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And then you can also work with me,
, one-on-one in a 12-week container.
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It's very specific to 60 minutes
to maximize kind of the results.
415
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We're really able to take kind of
your entire world and shift it.
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Karen Doak: I love it.
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Tristen Stawicki: Thank you
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Karen Doak: well, again,
thank you so much.
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I've really enjoyed this conversation
and appreciate your time.
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Tristen Stawicki: Oh, same here
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Karen Doak: The part of this conversation
I keep coming back to is the founder
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who hires someone to take work off
their plate, keeps control of every
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decision, and then wonders why the
person isn't taking work off their plate.
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I've seen that happen, and it's
easy to recognize from the outside,
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but it's harder to notice when
you're the person saying, "I just
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need to stay close to this," or,
"It'll be faster if I do it myself."
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00:24:22,881 --> 00:24:26,341
So that's where this conversation
connects for me, and I know you may
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relate differently to some of the more
spiritual things that were shared,
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00:24:28,991 --> 00:24:32,881
but there are key questions that are
worth sitting with no matter what.
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00:24:33,081 --> 00:24:34,681
What am I asking to change?
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00:24:35,001 --> 00:24:37,781
What am I still doing that
makes that change harder?
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00:24:37,821 --> 00:24:40,201
And what am I willing to do about that?
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00:24:40,641 --> 00:24:43,611
And maybe you need to try
something you haven't tried before.
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00:24:44,681 --> 00:24:47,661
And if other people have been
affected, recognizing the
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00:24:47,661 --> 00:24:49,241
pattern is only the beginning.
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00:24:49,331 --> 00:24:52,891
I really appreciated Tristan's point
that you can take accountability
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00:24:52,891 --> 00:24:54,821
without giving up your credibility.
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00:24:55,471 --> 00:24:58,481
You have to tell people what
you're going to do differently, and
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00:24:58,481 --> 00:24:59,971
then you have to actually do it.
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00:25:00,671 --> 00:25:02,871
Her suggestion to look at one
thing you're dreading this
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00:25:02,871 --> 00:25:04,931
week is a great place to start.
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00:25:05,151 --> 00:25:08,381
Before you automatically carry
it forward, ask whether it
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00:25:08,381 --> 00:25:09,531
still belongs on your plate.
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00:25:09,841 --> 00:25:12,811
And if it belongs with someone
else, think about what authority and
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00:25:12,811 --> 00:25:15,101
support they need to actually own it.
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00:25:15,711 --> 00:25:19,091
And if it's a difficult conversation
that belongs to you, maybe that's
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00:25:19,091 --> 00:25:20,421
the thing to stop avoiding.
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00:25:20,911 --> 00:25:23,761
I wanna thank Tristan again for
being so open about her work.
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00:25:23,801 --> 00:25:27,991
You'll find links to connect with her,
links to learn more about how to work
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00:25:27,991 --> 00:25:31,791
with her, and how to listen to Musings
and Modalities in the show notes.
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I'm Karen Doak, and this is OK Actually,
a show about what's really going on at
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00:25:36,241 --> 00:25:40,461
work, sometimes what's happening inside
of all of us, and what we can do about it
