Beth Sherman is a multi-Emmy Award-winning comedy writer who spent 30 years writing for Letterman, Jay Leno, Ellen DeGeneres, and multiple major awards shows, including the Oscars. She now works as a keynote speaker and executive presentation coach, helping leaders and professional speakers build rapid rapport using the same principles comedians use to convert a room full of strangers.

In this episode, John and Beth explore what professional speakers can actually learn from standup comedy — not the jokes, but the craft underneath them. Beth shares her BETH framework and challenges the assumption that being funny has anything to do with telling jokes.

What you'll take away:

• Why trying to be funny is one of the worst things a speaker can do — and what to do instead
• The BETH framework: Brevity, Elephant in the room, Truth, Humanity
• Why specificity and truth are the real engines of humour and connection
• The difference between self-deprecation and self-awareness on stage
• What comedians know about building trust with a sceptical audience that most business communicators don't
• Why silence on stage felt like failure to Beth — and how she's working through it
• What a "callback" is and why it's the most underused tool in a speaker's closing

Visit bethsherman.com or connect with Beth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beth-sherman/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Meet Beth Sherman

02:20 Comedy Roots and Writer Room

05:38 Standup Lessons and Testing

07:30 Humour Influences and Favourites

12:24 Stagecraft Rapid Rapport

13:46 Bombing and Hecklers

19:09 From TV Writing to Speaking

23:36 Building a Speaking Business

26:27 Positioning Humour as Rapport

27:39 Trust Through Humour

29:15 Standup And Speaking

31:51 Keynote Challenges

35:57 Stop Trying To Be Funny

38:36 BETH Framework

39:24 Brevity Wins

40:42 Elephant In The Room

42:56 Truth And Self Awareness

45:55 Specific Details

47:59 Humanity Over Jokes

49:03 Working With Beth

53:06 Quick Rapport Tip

54:46 Wrap Up And Takeaways

Frequently Asked Questions

Do professional speakers need to be funny to be successful?

According to Emmy Award-winning comedy writer and keynote speaker Beth Sherman, no. The goal is not to be funny — it is to be human. Trying to be funny often comes across as inauthentic and can undermine credibility, particularly for women and speakers from minority backgrounds. What engages audiences is vulnerability, relatability, and genuine connection. Laughter is a by-product of that, not the target.

What is the BETH framework for speakers?

The BETH framework was developed by Beth Sherman and stands for Brevity, Elephant in the room, Truth, and Humanity. It is a four-principle approach derived from professional comedy writing and stand-up that helps speakers and leaders build rapid rapport with any audience. Brevity means using fewer words for more impact. Elephant in the room means acknowledging what your audience is already noticing. Truth means that specificity and honesty are inherently engaging. Humanity means being relatable and vulnerable rather than polished and performative.

How can speakers use humour without telling jokes?

Beth Sherman teaches that truth is funny — comedians do not invent absurdity, they observe and report it. The most effective way for speakers to add humour to a talk is through specificity and self-awareness rather than constructed jokes. Sharing the particular details of a real experience — what was in the room, what was said, what you did when you got in the car — creates universal relatability because audiences recognise the truth in it. This approach works regardless of whether the speaker considers themselves funny.

What is rapid rapport, and why does it matter for speakers and leaders?

Rapid rapport is the ability to build trust and connection with a new or sceptical audience quickly. Beth Sherman argues that until an audience trusts you, nothing else you say matters — not your data, your story, or your framework. Comedians develop this skill by necessity: they must win over strangers, often in hostile conditions, within minutes. The same principles apply in leadership communication, sales, and keynote speaking. Beth's keynote and masterclass work translates these principles for business audiences.

What is the difference between self-deprecation and self-awareness for speakers?

Self-deprecation means putting yourself down for the purpose of getting a laugh. Self-awareness means acknowledging what your audience is already noticing about you or the situation. Beth Sherman advises speakers to favour self-awareness over self-deprecation, particularly if they belong to a group that may already face unconscious bias from their audience. Self-deprecation can undermine credibility; self-awareness builds connection and trust.

How do you open a talk and win an audience over quickly?

Beth Sherman's primary recommendation is to smile and look like you want to be there. Beyond that, acknowledge the elephant in the room early — whatever your audience might be thinking or distracted by. If you open with tension or a dramatic hook, relieve it quickly. The goal is connection, not perfection, and audiences respond to speakers who appear present and genuinely engaged with the room.

Visit https://strategic-speaker.scoreapp.com to take the 2-minute Strategic Speaking Business Audit and find out what's blocking you from getting more bookings, re-bookings, referrals and bigger fees. There's a special surprise gift for everyone who completes the quiz.

Want to get coached for free on the show? Fill in the form https://forms.gle/mo4xYkEiCjqtz9yP6, and if we think your challenge could help others, we'll invite you on.

For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening. Rating the show 5* on Spotify helps their algo recommend the show, so please take a moment to follow the show and leave a rating.

Welcome to Professional Speaking, the podcast for speakers who

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want to be known, booked, and paid.

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I know that a number of listeners

out there are eagerly awaiting this

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particular episode that I promised

to be the next episode, and then

5

snuck in another great episode with

Elliot K about the Speaker awards.

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I hope some of you have indeed

entered from that as well.

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My guest today though, has spent

three decades in professional comedy.

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She started as a writer's assistant

in Los Angeles, worked her way up to

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a Writer's Guild of America Union card

at 23, and went on to write for some

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of the biggest names in television.

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David Letterman, Jay Leno, Ellen

DeGeneres, and multiple major

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award-winning shows including the Oscars.

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But here's where it

gets interesting for us.

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She took everything she learned in those

writer rooms, the brevity, the rhythm,

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the precision of a well constructed

thought, and turned it into a framework

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for speakers and leaders who want to build

genuine connection with their audiences.

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She's a keynote speaker and executive

presentation coach, a standup comedian,

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and yes, a multi Emmy award winner,

the first I've ever had on this show

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for sure, but hopefully not the last.

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Please, let's welcome Beth

Sherman to professional speaking.

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Beth Sherman: Thank you.

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I like, that it's also the name of

the, the podcast, but it feels like

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a very formal Professional speaking

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John: Beth.

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Beth Sherman: Welcome to the

second part of your career.

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John: Well, yeah, I wasn't quite going for

that, but I can see where that comes from.

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That was maybe part of the, idea

behind changing the name of the show

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when I, rebranded it recently as well.

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one of my goals

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has been to bring on more people who are,

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really sort of shining brightly in

the professional speaking world.

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Your profile when I keep,

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just stands out and there's not

many people's profiles on LinkedIn

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and places that you sort of think

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they look really cool.

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I really think I need to go and

need to go and speak to them, but

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yours is definitely one of them.

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And it's not,

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not so much the awards

and stuff like that.

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You actually post really cool

stuff and, and you have a kind

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of natural way of doing that.

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And I think some of it.

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Some of that comes from the

ease of being able to be funny

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and have that confidence when

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you come through.

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And can you tell us a bit

about your, your background in

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comedy for anyone who might not

have come across you before?

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Beth Sherman: background in

comedy is, is pretty thorough.

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It's the only thing I ever

wanted to do, and it's what

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I've been doing professionally

since I was 20 and now I'm 23.

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I'm not, God, I'm 53, 30 years,

like officially 30 years.

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I used to round up, but I.

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Grew up listening to comedy albums.

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And if you're watching this, if

you're watching a clip, you'll

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see some of them behind you.

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But I didn't listen to music growing up.

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I just, I was obsessed with comedy albums,

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But I fell in love with the, the

relationship between words and, and these

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comedy albums were recorded live, and it

was magical to me, and I never thought.

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I could do that myself.

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It just didn't even occur to me.

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I didn't grow up anywhere near show

business, but when I was about 15 or

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16, I found out that, I saw a behind

the scenes for a TV comedy that I

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liked, a sitcom called Murphy Brown.

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And they did a behind the scenes

and they showed this magical place

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called the writer's room and,

and that was a room full of guys.

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It was mostly guys at that time, about

10 guys around a conference room table.

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A few women in that one

and their entire job.

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Was to do what we call

in the states punch up.

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It was to, one person would get

assigned to write the script.

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The script would come into the writer's

room, and then they would go through

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it line by line to make it funnier and

not just funnier, but funnier in the

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voice of the character and in a way

that deepened our understanding of the

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character and move the story forward.

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But basically they got paid to be funny

and, and genuinely since that moment.

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As soon as I found out that was a job,

it's the only thing I wanted to do.

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And so I went to university, I majored

in television, which was, I would

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say, an enormous waste of money.

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But I, I like the education,

but it, I might as well have

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studied history or something.

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And then I moved to Los Angeles when I

was 20 years old and worked my way up

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from a production assistant to a writer's

assistant and eventually started getting

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opportunities as a writer, and I got

my first full writing job, writer's

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Guild of America Union job at 23.

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That was the Rosie O'Donnell show.

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I moved to New York for

that one from Los Angeles.

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That was amazing.

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I was suddenly working at 30

Rockefeller Plaza, looking out onto

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wrote for Letterman, moved back to

Los Angeles, wrote for, Jay Leno

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and The Tonight Show for years.

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Wrote for three years for Ellen

and started getting into, a

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lot of award show writing.

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So I've written for the Oscars a few times

in the Screen Actors Guild, and along that

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journey since a lot of the other people

in that room were also standup comedians

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who wanted to get in off the road.

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They were tired of spending

300 nights a year on the road.

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And they wanted to apply it

differently when they found out that

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I had this secret yearning to do

standup, but I was a little chicken.

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I mean, they just literally

picked me up and threw me

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into the deep end of the pool.

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And so I was already a working

comedy writer, and at least I

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had the confidence that I knew

that I could construct something.

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and then once I did that and got my

first laugh, I mean, it's addictive.

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It's so, I, I did that

steadily, professionally.

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Concurrently for about 15 years.

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John: Oh Yeah.

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there's definitely that thing of.

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When doing, very new

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to standup.

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I've been doing it

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for a few years.

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open mic stuff,

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experience, I'm still a baby in this, but,

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but just finding out that people find the

stuff that you think's funny in your head.

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Funny as

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well.

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That's something kind of amazing to me.

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But you already knew that before you

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got on the stage To some

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degree,

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Beth Sherman: Yeah, it is humbling 'cause

because there's still, and to this day,

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even as professionals we know in our

from experience, this should be funny.

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I mean, this makes me laugh.

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I am someone who has a bar that

is higher than the average person.

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And if this sort of tickles

me, I am pretty confident

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it'll tickle other people.

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But then you get on stage.

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And it does fine.

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It's just fine.

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But then the thing that you say that

just kind of falls outta your mouth

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or something that is almost filler

is something that, but there's just,

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for some reason it, there's some,

it comes from some deep part of

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your soul and that gets a response.

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That gets a huge response.

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So it's still, and this certainly

relates to speaking, but.

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Everything has to be tested.

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And I, I have watched the

biggest comedians in the world.

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I mean, Jay, Leno, Ellen, they go

up and they say, is this anything?

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It, it, no, no one has more experience.

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No one has more craft.

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And they say, eh, anything.

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I mean that, that literally is the,

is the, the word, is it anything?

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I don't know.

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we

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John: still need

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that external check on, on

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these things, whether,

whether they're funny or not.

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Anyway, I'm curious whether,

were you already making jokes

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before you got into comedy writing?

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Were you doing any stuff that was

like, at least making your friends

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laugh, things like that Or, yeah.

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What

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Beth Sherman: was was class clown?

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John: Anything like that?

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Yeah.

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Beth Sherman: I'm an introvert.

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I.

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I wanted to be invisible in, in

school, but at home and something I

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didn't appreciate until, because our

experience is the only one we have.

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We have nothing to compare it to.

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But at home I do come from a family

that had a very good sense of humor.

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My dad had a good sense of

humor, my mom had a good sense

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of humor, making people laugh.

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Was something that happened in our house.

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I also come from a culture that

is known for its sense of humor.

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I, I mean, east Coast Jewish, that's

whole sort of, it's called the Borsch

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Belt, but it's the, it's the Mel Brooks.

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I mean, it's, it's the generation that

really pioneered American television.

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So, so I have that cultural experience.

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I mean, there are a lot of

cultures that use humor.

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As a, coping mechanism.

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I, I mean, many of them are Jews, Irish,

I mean, it's, most cultures have some

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form of, if you can't laugh, you cry.

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So we prefer laugh.

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John: Was any of, marvelous Missive

Maisel series based on your life?

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Noticing some parallels.

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Beth Sherman: Well, yeah.

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Being the only woman in the room for

most of my career, that didn't change.

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That's starting to change now.

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But the, the, the hunk of my career

that I did that, I was spent most of my

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career as the only woman in the room.

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I will say that's a show everyone wants

to know if I watched it, I haven't,

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but it's sort of like being doctor

and someone saying, do you watch er?

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Well, yeah.

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I mean, I appreciate someone's

telling the story, but

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John: it's,

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Beth Sherman: there's

similarities, but it's

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John: it's it's a great show,

but yeah, it might be, it might

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be a bit close to home is all.

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But, did you, did you pretty much pick

up the sort of joke structures and

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things like that from the, those comedy

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albums you were listening

to when you were young?

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Or was it

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something that you developed in a,

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in a different way?

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Beth Sherman: Yeah, I think it

was a lot of listening to it.

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It's, it's, it's an ear.

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If I, if, if, look, if my

family had been into jazz.

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Or classical music, and that's

what I heard 24 7 or that's what

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their record collection was.

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And I realize I'm dating myself by

saying record collection, but if that's

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what was there, then I'm sure that I

would have an ear for music that, that,

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that, that would've affected my wiring.

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and also, It's trying to get people

to find humor in things, I point

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them to standup, consume as much as

possible, develop your ear for it.

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Those things, you'll

never stop seeing them.

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You'll, you're, you'll constantly

be breaking those things down.

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Whether you realize it or not, it's useful

and I mean, you can't beat it as homework.

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Go watch some standup.

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John: It makes, makes a

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big difference.

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feel very fortunate I've been

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able to learn from, do

you know Judy Carter?

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wrote the

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Beth Sherman: new comedy

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Yeah, I do.

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John: so, so I've been

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fortunate to learn a lot from Judy.

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I

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even had a, a coaching session just

this week working on my next set.

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So it's been very, very lucky.

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But I don't know if I could have

picked all that stuff up just by

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watching,

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other people doing comedy.

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But, but lemme ask you like, who,

who are the people at the moment

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who you love watching for, for

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standup?

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Who are your favorites right now?

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Beth Sherman: there's a guy called

Jim Gaffigan who really makes me laugh

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and one of the reasons I like to.

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Point people to him is because he

does what is known as clean comedy,

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but that doesn't mean that he doesn't

acknowledge the existence of sex

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and things that are controversial.

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He just doesn't use profanity

when he does it, and he doesn't

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sort of go for the gross out part.

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Which now that I am in the business

world, obviously I don't wanna

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point anyone towards anything.

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And we live in a world that is incredibly

divided and people are just looking

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to be offended every part of the.

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Every part of the spectrum.

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So, so I, I love watching him.

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I'm a fan of his and I love

pointing people towards him.

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I'm also a big fan of, of Wanda Sykes.

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She, I mean, she is, she, she will

rip something right to the bone.

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Jim Jeffries, his latest special

was, was a bit crude for me, but

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John: haven't seen yet, but

I've watched a lot of his stuff.

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Yeah,

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Beth Sherman: well, look, it's,

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There's different, there's a

different flavor for everyone.

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John: Yeah.

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Beth Sherman: but, but generally,

and his past stuff, it's to me

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as a, as a comedian, as an art

form, nothing's offensive if it's

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funny, but it makes the bar higher.

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And now that is not advice for speakers.

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That is my own Beth opinion on comedy.

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Nothing's offensive if it's funny,

but it makes the bar higher.

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So it really better deliver that.

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Better be some chef's kiss truth

that you are delivering if you

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are venturing that direction.

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what was the question?

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you

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John: well, you've answered it.

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Your, your, your fa your favorite,

standups at the moment, and, I'm curious

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what, before we go onto your speaking

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career.

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What did you learn about

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stage, stagecraft and performance from

comedy that you were able to bring

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with you?

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Beth Sherman: Well, there's,

there's the bigger lessons.

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It's failure isn't fatal.

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I mean, there's really life lessons

in that if you do standup, and as

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you said, you've been starting to

do it, and anyone who speaks knows

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this, but failure isn't fatal.

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we learn how to fail as comedians.

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Sometimes the jokes don't work.

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Often they don't work, but

sometimes that's also what it is

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that you're trying to deliver.

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Might work.

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Maybe you just don't have

the audience, maybe you

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haven't engaged them yet.

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And, and that's the sort of thing that has

informed both my work with speakers, but

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the larger topic that I speak about, which

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And, and I call it rapid rapport.

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'cause that's what we do as comedians.

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if if we don't have you.

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if we fail as comedians,

it's not called failing.

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It's called dying, right?

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It's literally called dying on stage.

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very, doing very well is called killing.

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I'm not sure why it's so violent, but,

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John: No, it's true.

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It's like dying or bombing is like

those, those very, very kind of.

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Violent language expressions that

we use for, a bad performance.

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they say every comedian remembers

the first time they bombed.

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how, what was your first

experience of that?

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Beth Sherman: Well, it, it actually,

it took a minute because there's

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that line between just not getting

a reaction, not getting the room.

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You're, you're just speaking in front of,

you're speaking to a lot of, Foreheads

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because people are bent down just looking

at their own notes waiting to go up.

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So they're just not even listening.

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So first you have to

get them to, to listen.

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and then once they listen, whether

or not they like you, I, I think the,

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the, the craft is learning to pull

the plane out of the nose dive.

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Finding a way to connect with any

audience, but I do have one story

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of that, one of the first times,

so I, I did Vegas a few times.

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Uh, there's a comedy club at hers.

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It's a, I think it's still an improv.

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Uh, I mean, the club is called the Improv.

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It is standup and the way American

comedy shows work mostly, it's slightly

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different here in the uk, but there's

an opener, a feature, and a headliner.

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And the opener is sort

of the mc or the host.

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You go out, you do, five to seven minutes.

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You, it's, it's called taking the bullet.

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You basically go out there,

you're the sacrificial lamb.

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You get everyone listening and

focused, and then you bring

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up the next two acts and.

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went out there and this was a

Friday late crowd, and they, now,

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again, this is counterintuitive.

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you would think that people are out

to party on a Friday and they're

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out to have a good time and they've

just paid good money and there's

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a two drink minimum in the us We

have to convince people to drink.

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I went out there and it, what happens

in Vegas is that most people have

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traveled there on Friday and they,

and, but somebody had the great

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idea to book a show, so rather than

them being at the casino or the bar,

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they're now stuck inside a showroom.

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John: And they don't wanna be there.

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Beth Sherman: And, and now.

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And now here I am trying to, to

get them to pay attention while

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also they're looking at the menu.

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They're, yeah, they're doing

all sorts of other things.

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And so it is, yeah.

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It so, so even though you think

people are out to have a good time,

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they're not, they're, they're,

they'd rather be somewhere else.

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Saturday's different.

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Friday sucks.

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So I, someone decided that

they were funnier than I was.

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Which at that particular

moment, he'd had more to drink.

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Maybe he was so, so I

gave him the opportunity.

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All right.

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All right.

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So yeah.

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All right, well, why don't you go for it.

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This is your big moment, buddy.

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Come on, come on up here.

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You give us a joke.

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so he stood up and he did

a joke and it, he died.

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He just absolutely died.

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And so I got to say, oh, it's

harder than it looks, isn't it?

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And, and I mean, they were, the

audience was behind me 175%.

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I mean, it just, it was a great laugh.

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It was a great moment.

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But I looked in the back of the room and

the light for me to finish was not on.

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So, which meant that I still

had another seven minutes.

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and I could not, for the life of me,

think of where the hell I was in my set.

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So I had this, imagine you're a surfer

and this great wave comes towards you,

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and instead of paddling out and being

ready to coast this wave, it just

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sort of hit me and, and knocked me

down and rolled me around in the sand.

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just went from the dizzying heights to.

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No, you're right.

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I suck.

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you were right the first time.

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It just, I've never lost, a crowd

won and lost a crowd so quickly.

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John: Man, but yet you come

back from these experiences.

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I think at the time it, it's, it sucks so

bad, but once you've got a bit of time and

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distance from it, it's, you can start to

recover yourself and you sort of think,

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all right, some things went wrong, but you

know that you've had good sets as well.

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You know, you can get them on

side, you can make them laugh.

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You get back up there and do it again.

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Beth Sherman: And I so proud

of myself for, for, handling

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the heckler in the right way.

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Don't, don't tell him to shut up.

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Don't do anything.

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I, I gave him a second.

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It worked out.

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Everything just lined right up and

then, I, yeah, I learned to put a,

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put a little bookmark in before you

stop your set to do something, add

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John: a bookmark in

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Beth Sherman: your brain.

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John: see these people, they put these

videos online now, like people handling

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hecklers and doing these great put

downs and stuff, and it looks so easy.

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Some people make it look really

effortless and yeah, I know that if

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that, I've never been heckled yet.

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But, I did go on a, to perform

just after someone who was

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getting heckler and it come.

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He was, very new as well, and,

and it completely threw him.

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And I think it would do

the same for me as well.

387

It is like you don't really

know until you're up there.

388

I do think people, there's an element

of, some people look at it and

389

think that it's so easy, but they

probably would never get up there

390

and do it themselves or be terrified.

391

But with a bit of, Dutch courage, they're

happy to shout in from the sidelines.

392

Right?

393

Beth Sherman: Oh, sure.

394

And learning to handle it

is part of the experience.

395

Just like in speaking it's,

it's just having the experience.

396

Lots of different

experiences under your belt.

397

And, what's the Mike Tyson line?

398

Everyone, Mike Tyson, the boxer.

399

Uh.

400

John: Oh yeah.

401

Everyone has a plan till they're punched

402

Beth Sherman: in the

403

Exactly.

404

Yep.

405

And,

406

enough

407

John: What was, I mean, you moved

from that into speaking, which to

408

me seems like a natural progression,

but maybe to our listener might

409

not seem so natural, but so can you

explain how that ended up happening?

410

Like, you sort of think, all

right, maybe you're gonna move away

411

from the standup stage a bit now

and move into keynote speaking.

412

What, what caused that transition for you?

413

Beth Sherman: Well, really what I moved

from was writing because my, full career

414

was in my, headline career was as a, as a

writer, a comedy writer on, on TV shows.

415

So that was really what I did.

416

The, the standup.

417

It was nights and weekends and, and

hiatus weeks are when the shows were dark.

418

So, so there were years and years of that.

419

But my day job was always comedy

writing and, and writing for tv.

420

So what that evolved into was, I started

doing a lot of speech writing on the

421

side and doing punch up for people.

422

Who were giving speeches outside

the world of entertainment.

423

So it was helping people with,

conference speeches, CEOs, I'd

424

help with their conference speech.

425

Then they come back, my daughter's

getting married, I need a

426

father with a bride speech.

427

And that, a lot of that

started out as ghost writing.

428

And I realized really what these

people need is because also the big

429

executive have executives have a

comms department, or there's usually

430

someone drafting their speech.

431

What they need help with is.

432

Engagement.

433

they need presentation skills.

434

They, they just, and what they would

say is, I don't wanna be boring.

435

And they would think they wanted jokes,

but really what they needed was to be

436

able to connect with their audience.

437

So for, probably eight or nine.

438

now, yeah, closer to eight years now.

439

I've had a sideline doing that,

doing what is basically executive

440

presentation coaching, and most

of that was, is through zooms.

441

So I just get on a Zoom with someone

and we, I, I share my screen,

442

which is their speech, and we

just go through it line by line.

443

And it was in the course of that,

as I was explaining these things

444

to people, this is what you want,

but here's how we can achieve it.

445

And, and these are things that I

was already doing with celebrities

446

and these are things that I, but I

realized that I, so much of what I do.

447

Is instinctive, but realizing, oh,

for other people, this isn't, they're

448

not seeing this as an opportunity.

449

They're not seeing this line as

just something that's begging

450

for a little more truth.

451

They're, they're not,

they're not seeing these.

452

So, and I loved doing it.

453

I loved because I'm, I'm showing someone

how to, one, it's, it's taking someone

454

from being very nervous and giving

them confidence in what they're doing.

455

And often they, it was for big moments,

someone's got a TED talk, you know,

456

someone's got a wedding speech, the

someone's, been asked a keynote at a

457

conference, and it's because they've

reached a particular part in their career.

458

so those conversations and those

explanations and that teaching is

459

what moved me into, into speaking

because I realized that their.

460

Was a need.

461

There weren't, these people had

never heard these things before,

462

and, and, and I, I was useful

and, and it lit me up inside.

463

It, was, I love it.

464

John: How, how easy did you find

it to go from kind of writing for

465

other people and other people's

voices to finding your own voice on

466

the stage and writing for yourself?

467

Was that, is it simple for you

or was there some challenges?

468

Beth Sherman: in standup.

469

That was a challenge for a minute

until I could sort of figure that out

470

because I'd spent all of my career

at that point just, just literally,

471

uh, writing in other people's voices.

472

Uh, for speaking, it was, yeah, it

was a bit of a challenge because

473

I never had the problem I solve.

474

mean, I must have, but not in the same way

475

John: Yeah.

476

Beth Sherman: because of the nature of

my 30 years of experience, I, I sort

477

of have, it's sort of like being an

athlete and, and having someone say,

478

what are you thinking when someone

throws you the ball and you run and you

479

look that way and you look that way?

480

I don't know.

481

It's muscle memory.

482

So, so some of it was a lot of doing a lot

of q and as with people paying attention

483

to what questions speakers were asking me.

484

John: Yeah.

485

When, when you decided to move into

speaking as, as more of a career, what

486

was it, an intentional shift like, this

is what I'm gonna do as a career, or

487

was it maybe like, oh, let's do a bit

of this and see how it goes, and maybe

488

I'll do more of that if it goes well?

489

Beth Sherman: I, I would

say a little bit of both.

490

you sort of want proof of, of concept.

491

My first stop was Maria Franzo.

492

Uh, I.

493

Spoke with her before I had done,

actually, I, I guess I had done

494

one, uh, a client asked me to

speak and I'd already done that,

495

um, actually maybe once or twice.

496

But I asked Maria, is this

something where, is this

497

something that's sustainable?

498

Is this something, is

there a need for this?

499

And also, how would you.

500

Position it in, in the business world.

501

'cause I've never worked a

second in the business world.

502

I, I've always had the luxury

of being It's no, they're

503

the creatives in that room.

504

Just close the door behind you.

505

They're, so it, it's been

an, it's been interesting

506

coming into a, a brand new world

and, and, but ultimately what I've

507

learned over the past few years

is that the problems are the same.

508

John: So how, so how did you go

about getting your first stages?

509

Beth Sherman: I first, well, Maria

sent me to the PSA, the Professional

510

Speakers Association, and that

was my first stop and the reason,

511

People in that area understood the

relationship between people, humor and

512

success, at least on a surface level.

513

John: Yeah.

514

Beth Sherman: What I've been doing is,

is going further into it, and I'm happy

515

to share all of those things, but they

understood, at least if people are

516

laughing, this is immediate gratification,

that it's, it can't be going too badly.

517

So they understood the importance of that.

518

after that I started broadening

it to more, more of the conference

519

stages, things like that.

520

More of, a bit of free speaking, but

free speaking in front of professional

521

audiences and slowly building my own

skills and slowly building video.

522

Photos, understanding how to

express my value in, in a pitch.

523

I mean, how, how, how can I sound as

if this is relevant for this audience?

524

How can I sort of, even just for

the application, which is a really

525

good, which is harder than it sounds,

526

John: Yeah.

527

Beth Sherman: especially, especially

when you speak in my area.

528

I mean, right now, if you just

say ai, people go, I get it.

529

We need it.

530

But because so much of my credibility

is wrapped around the word humor, one

531

of the things I've been struggling

with is sort of, how, how can I make

532

that the subtitle not, not the title.

533

John: So do, do you find, I'm curious

about this genuinely curious about this.

534

'cause I, humor's a very interesting area

to me, and I'm, I'm someone who's been

535

very, I, I've been obsessed, you could

say, with the sort of, tools of influence

536

and persuasion for a, for a long time.

537

And it.

538

Especially the more I got into a

speaking, the more I realized how

539

intertwined those things were.

540

I started learning more about rhetoric

and things like that and, have come

541

to see humor as being one of the most.

542

Valuable skills of influence from, from a

stage in terms of being able to positively

543

lead and, and connect with an audience

and be likable by them, achieve so much.

544

how, how do you position that in, a

corporate to a corporate audience?

545

in terms of speaking is like, what do

they see a need for, for humor or, or.

546

Is it positioned in a particular

like learning way that they

547

recognize they need that?

548

Beth Sherman: Well, I

position it as rapport.

549

It's building trust and rapport and,

and that what I do is I break down how

550

comedians create pretty much instant.

551

Rapport with strangers, often drunk

strangers, but with strangers.

552

Let us say a skeptical audience, how

we create nearly instant rapport with

553

a skeptical audience and how using

those exact same principles, you

554

can do the same thing in business.

555

And really, it's not, it, it's

about building trust quickly

556

to smooth the process of

everything that comes afterwards.

557

I mean, in sales it, it's,

it's relationship building.

558

In leadership, it, it's very

important to emotional connection.

559

I mean, people don't take

action until you've felt trust.

560

John: Yeah.

561

Beth Sherman: And trust is built

by making people feel emotion.

562

And as we've seen in, in politics,

anger's an emotion that seems to work

563

and seems to get people on board.

564

But so joy, humor is.

565

When I, when I speak about

it, it's positioning it as not

566

humor for the sake of jokes.

567

It's positioning humor as humanity,

the ability to find common ground

568

quickly, to be relatable, to, grow

that know, like, and trust factor.

569

I'm not out to make more comedians.

570

I don't need the competition,

571

but I think everybody until

you get people to listen.

572

It doesn't matter what you say.

573

And that goes for speakers,

for leaders in sales.

574

Until you have people's attention,

they, it, it really doesn't matter

575

how good it is, whatever it is you're

selling, especially if it's yourself.

576

John: the, I definitely wanna get

into some of the detail of that, but

577

I have, I have some questions I, I

wanna get to, first one thing is, I'm

578

curious, do you still do any standup?

579

Do you still get up there and do,

do the, do the comedy mics, any open

580

mics or anything like that, just

for fun or, or for anything else?

581

Beth Sherman: I haven't in a few years,

because the speaking has sort of scratched

582

that itch, not that I'm going up there.

583

With the purpose of just, let

me just hit 'em with a bunch of

584

jokes, but it's the same skillset.

585

It, it's sort of, I would call it

cross training, but, but that said,

586

because speaking, even on a busy

week, I'm not doing this, when I did

587

standup, I wanted to go up every night

of the week as many times as I could,

588

sometimes multiple times a night.

589

So in speaking, even on a good week, I

am probably going to go out and start

590

finding some open mics just to develop

some new material to, I haven't done

591

standup for British audiences yet.

592

I'm an, I'm American, as

people can hear from my accent.

593

But I live in London and I so.

594

I'm terrified, but I will go and do that.

595

I seem to make them laugh on

an individual basis, but at a,

596

John: Which is always good.

597

It is a good, it's a good indicator.

598

I, I think, if you could make your friends

laugh, if you can make people laugh on an

599

individual basis, there's a good chance

you can, make people laugh from the stage.

600

But I mean, you, I think

you already know you can.

601

I, I think British audiences, pretty open.

602

I don't know.

603

I live in Valencia in Spain, but

there's an open mic scene in English

604

here, and that's where I've been.

605

so I'm doing, so I've been doing open

mics with some English audiences.

606

Yeah, sure.

607

But some of them are Spanish, some

of them are from Eastern Europe.

608

Some of them are from, Nordic

countries, get some Americans

609

and Canadians coming as well.

610

And so fairly international

crowds, which, which is.

611

Which is interesting, but it's always

in, it's always interesting to me to see

612

who's actually responds well to the humor.

613

And I do tend to find some of

the best audiences I've had, have

614

been with, have been quite a few

German people in the audience.

615

Like they love to laugh,

they really have a laugh.

616

Beth Sherman: Boy, that's a

sentence you don't hear every day.

617

The

618

John: Germans love

619

You wouldn't think it, but

they, they absolutely do.

620

It's these, these sort of,

preconceptions we have in our mind,

621

but they, they are, are quite raucous.

622

I would love, I'm very much keen to do

standup in the UK myself, so I, I, I

623

look forward to hearing how, how you go

at, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll try and try

624

and get some leads on some places to, to

perform when I, when I come over there.

625

I, I'm curious for you, what, what.

626

What challenges, if any,

have you experienced on your

627

journey into keynote speaking?

628

Is that, have there been any

things that were sort of unexpected

629

coming up, or has it been a pretty

straightforward journey for you?

630

Beth Sherman: Just

crushing it from day one.

631

John?

632

Uh, um, uh, yeah, I would

say, well, two things.

633

One was positioning, uh, or one

is positioning and I think that's

634

sort of universal with speakers.

635

Like anything we don't.

636

It's a two-way street.

637

We know what we're good at.

638

We know what we can teach and share

and what we want to teach and share,

639

but getting that aligned with what

people are willing to pay for or

640

what they hear is something that

they should prioritize and pay for.

641

So, I mean that's, that's a lot of my

move away from sort of saying, because.

642

The power of humor in business.

643

Humor is an incredibly powerful

business tool, but the world

644

is a, there's interesting stuff

happening in the world now.

645

There's a lot of uncertainty.

646

There's a lot of, so, so just as

a priority, the word humor does

647

not, put me at the top of the list.

648

But if it's about rapid rapport

and, and here's how to build trust

649

quickly in uncertain times, and.

650

the way, the reason I am someone you

should look to for this in a pitch, by

651

the way, I'm the, is because I have a

tremendous amount of experience converting

652

skeptical audiences very quickly.

653

And, and I can show you these, these

human skills, and, and understanding

654

that really the problem that business is

dealing with is that they, they need to,

655

their business needs to keep evolving very

quickly, but, and management has to get.

656

People at all sorts of levels to

buy in to making these changes.

657

But they're struggling to get buy-in and

they're struggling to get buy-in, partly

658

because it's generational, because, human

skills, there is a generation that's

659

coming up that that just has had less

experience with human skills and also

660

just it's the nature of the beast that

people get promoted because of expertise.

661

Not necessarily because of people skills.

662

So you have a lot of people who

are brilliant at what they do, but

663

getting people on board and, and

creating connection with people

664

is, is a skill that they haven't

had the chance to develop as much.

665

So when I explain things like that.

666

It makes a lot more sense to

people in business as a priority.

667

So I would say positioning.

668

And then the other thing that I've, that's

been an interesting journey is just having

669

the comfort to have silence on stage

in the sense of, as a comedian, we have

670

a rhythm, and that rhythm is, my brain

is set to have a laugh every so often.

671

I mean, and, and, and there's,

eight laughs, a page, 10 laughs,

672

a page, whatever that is.

673

So at the beginning when I

was explaining something,

674

people were listening.

675

But what my lizard brain felt

was just, they're silence,

676

silence, silence bad, silence bad.

677

And, and, and that would sort of

immediately erode my confidence even

678

though they were listening to something.

679

I was not telling a joke.

680

I mean, I was telling it lightly.

681

I was sharing information in

a way that's lighter, but.

682

actual information and instruction

at a lighter level gets a, has

683

different impact and gets a more muted

response than jokes told to people

684

who are there to have a good time.

685

So my goal is, and I'd say I'm three

quarters of the way there it is, to merge

686

those two things and to be able to teach

what I teach with the same amount of.

687

Laughter or the same level of reaction.

688

John: Yeah.

689

I, I'm sure you would've heard that

old adage in the speaker world of, do

690

you have to be funny to be a speaker?

691

Only if you want to get paid.

692

But how true do you think that is?

693

I, I know where I stand on that.

694

I tend to think it's pretty important.

695

But do you think it is essential

for professional speakers

696

to be able to at least.

697

Bring some humor and, and maybe

playfulness into their talks.

698

Beth Sherman: No, of course not.

699

I actually don't.

700

And one of things that I think.

701

I feel pretty strongly 'cause when,

when I talk about these are some of the

702

mistakes that I see all the time, one

of the biggest mistakes I see people

703

make is that they try to be funny.

704

Now I will clarify that because I am

a comedian, obviously I enjoy humor.

705

It's the try part of that sentence

that they are trying to be funny.

706

That's not a recipe for success.

707

Instead of trying to be funny.

708

Think about what it is

that you're trying to do.

709

It's instead of thinking it, of it

as humor, think of it as humanity.

710

You are trying to create an emotional

connection with your audience.

711

You want them to see you as human and

a little vulnerable and relatable.

712

You don't have to be bestie,

bestie, but you want to capture

713

their intention, their attention.

714

You want to make them

want to listen to you.

715

That's humanity and relatability.

716

That doesn't have to come from jokes.

717

And, and the, the thing that I talk

about quite often, and, and this is

718

here's the whole secret of comedy,

everybody, the get pick up your pen,

719

but here's the whole secret of comedy.

720

not if you're driving,

don't write this down.

721

If you're driving and listening,

um, uh, it's the truth is funny.

722

You don't have to be funny yourself.

723

Truth is funny.

724

All we do as comedians is

observe and report truth.

725

That's it.

726

Life is absurd.

727

People are bonkers.

728

Truth is funny.

729

So when people say, just start with

a joke or just try to be funny,

730

to me that comes can come

across as very inauthentic.

731

It comes across as I'm

trying to please you.

732

Here's, here's something I thought of,

because this is gonna make you laugh, and

733

that gives people a different message.

734

That's that's a very different

message that you're giving to people.

735

And that's a first impression, right?

736

That's usually the point at which

you're giving them that message.

737

John: Yeah.

738

Beth Sherman: So truth is funny, and I.

739

I try to get people to, well, I have a

framework that that works also in the

740

business context, but it works in, in

speaking and, 'cause I've learned the

741

business world just loves a framework.

742

John: Oh, we do.

743

Beth Sherman: You love a, you

love a framework, and if you like

744

a f and it even has an acronym.

745

I know you love an

746

John: They're the best.

747

Beth Sherman: They're

the, they're the best.

748

and I wanted an acronym

no one could steal.

749

So my acronym is Beth.

750

It's, uh, it's, it's my first name.

751

It's Beth, so the Bee now.

752

So if you are trying to create

connection, create emotional

753

connection with your audience, with

your team, whatever, um, this is,

754

these are the four principles that we

use as comedians and, and it works.

755

So the B is for brevity.

756

Less words better.

757

That's, that's pretty much the,

the fewer words have more impact.

758

So overall, if you are a speaker,

first of all, just look overall,

759

write your speech, write it fat.

760

Write it with as many words as you

need to use 'em, all if you have to.

761

But then cut it down.

762

Look at every, every thought that you

have, everything you're trying to share.

763

Take 10% out of it, take 15% out of it.

764

Each of those sentences,

fewer words, have more impact.

765

It makes a huge difference.

766

John: Yeah.

767

Beth Sherman: Um, and, and I, I spend a

lot of time, I, I've found a niche or,

768

or lawyers in the legal profession and,

brevity is not a word that you hear often.

769

John: Well, not when

you're paid by the hour.

770

No.

771

Beth Sherman: Yeah.

772

fewer words have more impact.

773

The next email you write, write it

and then take a look at it and, and

774

say, what are 10 words I can remove?

775

I guarantee you, you can remove some

words and it will, it will create

776

connection one, because your intent

will get across more clearly, but also.

777

People will appreciate it, that they

will say, well see that you've made

778

an effort to not waste their time.

779

That's connection.

780

the e is for the elephant in the room.

781

Always acknowledge the

elephant in the room.

782

That's what we do as comedians.

783

You don't necessarily have to

go into it, but acknowledge it.

784

If you are the first speaker

and it's seven 30 in the morning

785

and there's been some sort of

welcome drinks the night before.

786

People just acknowledge

it, just like, wow.

787

Yeah.

788

Uh, I see some of the people who

helped me close down the bar.

789

I'll keep my vo, I'll keep,

I'll keep my voice down.

790

John: it's so weird, Beth, because you,

you kind of reminded me of one of my

791

set openers, which was exactly that.

792

It's like, I'd like, just like to start

by addressing the elephant in the room.

793

I prefer to be called a bear.

794

I find elephant a bit fattest.

795

Beth Sherman: See, there you go.

796

and something, and in your case,

you are using it for a very

797

specific, you're using the word

elephant for a very specific reason.

798

But something I find I have to tell

speakers, when you acknowledge the

799

elephant in the room, you don't have to

say, I need, you don't always, I need

800

to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

801

You can, if there's a reason.

802

You know, like, like, you

are, it's an animal joke.

803

You're sort of, um,

it's that juxtaposition.

804

But, um, some speakers do it.

805

And again, the elephant in the

room is what it is, is you're

806

acknowledging something to remove

it as a potential distraction.

807

If my arm were in a sling, I would have

to acknowledge it because otherwise

808

people are just gonna be looking

at me and thinking, what happened?

809

You just acknowledging it.

810

Because if they're, if the inner

811

monologue.

812

In their brain is, I wonder what

happened, or, good lord, how tall is he?

813

or where is she from?

814

Is she American or Canadian?

815

Are we allowed to like her?

816

which country is she from?

817

The good one or the one that's,

um, but it's just a, if, if they

818

have that voice in their head, the

voice they're not listening to is

819

yours.

820

So simply answer that question

that's in that thought bubble above

821

their head, and then we can all move

822

John: But you have to

know that it's there.

823

Right?

824

Because I know that I hear, do hear

speakers saying that sometimes they've

825

done a, a, a guy's particularly done a

whole performance with their flies down

826

and a bit of their shirt sticking out.

827

If they don't know that's the case,

that's what everyone's watching.

828

They're not listening to them.

829

It's like, is he gonna realize

that his flies are undone?

830

You're absolutely right.

831

Beth Sherman: Sure.

832

Well, and that kind of brings me, to

the T, which is the truth is Funny.

833

that's the T in the Beth acronym,

uh, brevity Elephant in the room.

834

T is for truth.

835

Truth is funny and there are

two kinds of truth in particular

836

that work very well for humor.

837

They lend themselves to it.

838

The first is self-awareness,

which is where the, uh, fly down.

839

I mean, those sorts of things.

840

If you feel like there's a weird

energy in the room, you can just

841

stop and say, there's a weird

kind of energy in the room.

842

What is it?

843

Is my fly down?

844

I mean, obviously you're hoping

the answer to that question is no.

845

But it could be, oh,

someone just got a text.

846

we all, everyone in the company just got

a text or an email that said there's an

847

emergency meeting that's coming up right

after this, and everyone's now distracted.

848

But we as speakers can feel that.

849

So.

850

Just ask if you have to.

851

It.

852

It's, it's okay.

853

The, the goal is

connection, not perfection.

854

How you rehearsed it in, in your

home office, also known as the

855

second bedroom, doesn't have

to be exactly how it comes out.

856

The goal is connection.

857

That's what people will remember.

858

So uh, two kinds of truth.

859

So self-awareness, and again,

self-awareness is simply

860

acknowledging whatever your audience

might be noticing or thinking.

861

And I always try.

862

Especially the speakers to make

a distinction between being

863

self-deprecating and being self-aware.

864

I'm a fan of being self-aware.

865

I'm not a fan of being self-deprecating.

866

Being self-deprecating is

simply putting yourself down

867

for the sake of getting a laugh.

868

John: Right.

869

Beth Sherman: You can do it, it works.

870

But when people worry about humor,

potentially undermining credibility,

871

that's the kind of thing that does it.

872

Especially if you're something that

I like to call a woman or a person

873

of color or any other minority,

because look, we don't know the,

874

the, biases of the, people

that we're speaking to.

875

And if there's any potential

that they might think you're less

876

than, why are you gonna make their

877

argument for them?

878

John: No, I agree.

879

Yeah, it's a hundred percent like the,

of there's a, there's a fine line really

880

between not taking yourself too seriously

and actually undermining your credibility,

881

and that's an important one to find.

882

Beth Sherman: Yeah, and it,

and again, it is a fine line.

883

So to have the instinct that there's

this thing that you want to point out,

884

there's not a thing wrong with that.

885

It doesn't mean that whole

subject as something to point

886

out is, is off the table.

887

Just in your wording of it, Just think

about, just keep that in mind and which

888

side of the line you want to be on.

889

It can be subtle, but everything that

you say transmits a message, so just

890

be conscious of what that message is.

891

two kinds of truth,

self-awareness and specificity.

892

so, if truth is funny,

details are hilarious.

893

It, it's, it sounds

894

counterintuitive, but.

895

there's a great quote from, uh,

James Joyce, author of Ulysses.

896

Noted, funny man, James Joyce.

897

He's at the Chuckle Hut next Friday.

898

Um, but James Joyce, but he said in

the particular lies the universal.

899

That's it's, I think that's fantastic.

900

In the particular lies, the universal,

the more personal something is to you,

901

the more specific it is to you, the

more relatable it is to everybody else.

902

We don't all have your, we all have kids.

903

We don't have your kids,

but we all have kids.

904

We don't all have your parents,

but we all have parents.

905

There are things that are universal.

906

Look, we've all been fired.

907

In one form or another.

908

What are the details of that?

909

I, I work with a lot of speakers

who speaking is their second career.

910

Sometimes they're third, but

they're usually speakers because

911

they've had a very successful

career doing something else.

912

And sometimes it's a natural evolution.

913

Sometimes it's because they

said, I ain't doing this anymore.

914

And, and they've actively said

that and, and they're leaving.

915

John: Yeah.

916

Beth Sherman: tell me more about that.

917

If you got fired, and that's your origin

story, don't just Tell me you got fired.

918

Tell me What happened.

919

How did you word it?

920

What was your boss's reaction?

921

these are the things I fish for.

922

We don't, they don't, the audience doesn't

need to know every single thing, but these

923

are the sorts of things I ask on a call.

924

What, what was the first thing you did?

925

What did you put your stuff

in when you walked out?

926

What was the first thing you did when you

got into your car and closed the door?

927

Did you cry?

928

Did you laugh?

929

Did you call your partner?

930

What Did you do on the drive home?

931

Did These are things that are

small, but they add humor.

932

they they add humanity, which add

humor, which gets the laughs and

933

smiles that you're looking for in a way

that's authentic to you and relatable,

934

and you don't have to be funny.

935

And that just, I, I'll won't belabor

it anymore, but the H in that Beth,

936

BETH, um, brevity, elephant in the room.

937

Truth, the H is for humanity.

938

That's, That's, it.

939

Be human humor.

940

I think humor is a love language.

941

It's a way to say things between the lines

and the things that you're usually trying

942

to say between the lines as a speaker are.

943

I want you I want you to understand

944

this I wanna make this as easy as

possible for you to understand.

945

I want you to understand

where I'm coming from.

946

I want you to see me

947

and remember me

948

in the best possible way.

949

John: Yeah, that's great.

950

That framework is really, really helpful.

951

And I love that.

952

I think this is the first time

I've ever come across someone who's

953

been able to brand their framework.

954

So personally as you have,

that's, that's quite spectacular.

955

I bow to you.

956

That's amazing.

957

Uh, but that's also very memorable.

958

It's like, well, they

remember the framework.

959

They have to remember you to remember, to

remember the framework That is so clever.

960

I wish I, I wish I had thought

of something like that.

961

But I know that you do

teach these skills as well.

962

You do help other people to develop

them further and, can you share a

963

little bit about the work that you do

and, and how people could come and work

964

with you if they want to find out more?

965

Beth Sherman: Sure.

966

Well, I have the, the, the

keynoting and the, and the,

967

masterclasses part of my business.

968

And that's all around, rapid rapport

and how to build trust quickly the way

969

we do as comedians using those same

principles and that those I use with,

970

I mean, it's, it's, Big businesses.

971

So it, it's more around that

and leadership, communication.

972

What I do with speakers is it's,

they are, it's a, it's, I call

973

it the writer's room, really.

974

I mean, because that's what it is.

975

30 years of being in a writer's

room, it's the most effective way

976

possible, I know, to improve material.

977

So I act as a really, as a sounding board.

978

I put myself in the position

of the audience and.

979

I go through, their content with them.

980

I go through, often people are, have

a keynote that they have been working

981

on, or they have been delivering

and looking at where it lags, where

982

is there a drop in engagement?

983

how can we add more to this?

984

I get sent a lot of, people who

are professional speakers because

985

they have, they're adventurers or

they're athletes with lots of medals.

986

They're very intense.

987

This is what got them to where they

are, and they are perfectionists and so

988

they have stories that are incredible.

989

But what's lacking sometimes is

that human, that self-awareness

990

that that their message on paper

may say, I did this, and anyone can,

991

but there's a disconnect between

getting people to really believe that.

992

Because there is an intensity that

has served them well in other things.

993

So how can they balance

994

that with being relatable?

995

I, I work in 90 minute sessions.

996

I review everything beforehand

and then we go, line

997

by

998

line

999

through content.

00:51:13,162 --> 00:51:14,962

We look at the beginning,

the middle, and the end.

00:51:14,962 --> 00:51:15,922

'cause I'm an expert.

00:51:16,222 --> 00:51:21,682

Those are the three places that that

talks often need the most engagement.

00:51:22,132 --> 00:51:23,002

At the beginning, you're setting

00:51:23,002 --> 00:51:24,592

a tone in the middle.

00:51:24,652 --> 00:51:27,562

It can be a lighter hand, but

you wanna reengage people.

00:51:27,562 --> 00:51:28,912

And at the end, that's what people.

00:51:28,912 --> 00:51:29,542

remember.

00:51:30,082 --> 00:51:33,172

And in comedy, there's

something called a callback.

00:51:33,742 --> 00:51:36,862

Every comedian set watch

any standup special.

00:51:36,862 --> 00:51:42,442

We all end with a callback, which is

usually, which is a reference back to.

00:51:42,877 --> 00:51:46,897

Let's say a, it's usually the

biggest laugh, but in terms of

00:51:46,897 --> 00:51:51,457

speaking, it would be the moment

of deepest emotional connection.

00:51:53,047 --> 00:51:56,437

But we refer back to that and,

and also who doesn't wanna leave

00:51:56,437 --> 00:51:59,377

on a smile just psychologically.

00:51:59,977 --> 00:52:01,507

But I go through that and,

00:52:01,507 --> 00:52:05,827

um, people seem to be, so that's

what my sessions look like and

00:52:05,827 --> 00:52:07,177

people seem to be pretty pleased with

00:52:07,185 --> 00:52:09,660

John: who, who wouldn't want

an award-winning comedy writer

00:52:09,660 --> 00:52:10,890

going through the, the tour?

00:52:11,125 --> 00:52:12,245

I I certainly would be very.

00:52:12,910 --> 00:52:16,360

Uh, very tempted, very keen to book

you, myself, Beth, though I could

00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:17,770

do with, I could do with your help.

00:52:18,010 --> 00:52:20,989

Um, for people who would, would

like to reach out and work with

00:52:20,989 --> 00:52:23,419

you, what's gonna be the best

way for them to get in contact?

00:52:24,881 --> 00:52:27,161

Beth Sherman: they can find

me on LinkedIn, Uh, under

00:52:27,161 --> 00:52:28,721

my name Beth Sherman, or at

00:52:28,721 --> 00:52:30,221

the very cleverly named website.

00:52:30,986 --> 00:52:32,636

Beth sherman.com.

00:52:33,986 --> 00:52:35,366

you don't get you don't get daytime.

00:52:35,366 --> 00:52:39,056

Emmys took me ages and ages

00:52:39,056 --> 00:52:39,506

John.

00:52:39,816 --> 00:52:42,306

and I wanna emphasize that so

much of what I do, it's not,

00:52:42,396 --> 00:52:43,506

you don't have to be funny.

00:52:43,506 --> 00:52:45,726

It's not, it doesn't

have to be about humor.

00:52:45,756 --> 00:52:46,596

That's the result.

00:52:46,596 --> 00:52:48,846

The laughter and the smiles

are, that's the result.

00:52:48,936 --> 00:52:52,986

But really what we're adding and what

I would encourage anyone to add and

00:52:52,986 --> 00:52:55,236

be aware of, it's adding humanity.

00:52:55,656 --> 00:52:57,516

Vulnerability, relatability.

00:52:57,666 --> 00:52:58,476

That's

00:52:58,566 --> 00:53:00,186

what engages people.

00:53:00,276 --> 00:53:04,086

That's what gets them to listen and

keeps them listening, and you don't, you

00:53:04,086 --> 00:53:05,376

don't have to be a funny person for that.

00:53:06,024 --> 00:53:08,394

John: Beth, you've already been

very, very generous with your time.

00:53:08,394 --> 00:53:13,464

If I can be a, a little cheeky, do

you have like one quick tip tool that

00:53:13,464 --> 00:53:17,244

somebody could use to like, get that

quick rapport when they get on stage?

00:53:17,244 --> 00:53:19,344

Like what would you think is the,

what's the first thing you should

00:53:19,344 --> 00:53:21,444

do to, to win your audience over?

00:53:23,031 --> 00:53:23,901

Beth Sherman: Smile.

00:53:25,041 --> 00:53:26,331

I mean, how's that for basic?

00:53:26,331 --> 00:53:28,371

But it's, it's true.

00:53:28,431 --> 00:53:31,491

I look, I smile.

00:53:31,581 --> 00:53:36,201

It, it's, it lowers people's guards

look like, and, and even if it's not

00:53:36,201 --> 00:53:40,401

smile, look like you want to be there.

00:53:41,061 --> 00:53:46,251

I see a lot of people who start

very earnestly and even if.

00:53:47,481 --> 00:53:49,761

People sometimes will come up and

they'll have a very dramatic first

00:53:49,761 --> 00:53:51,201

sentence or something like that.

00:53:51,201 --> 00:53:51,891

That's fine.

00:53:52,071 --> 00:53:56,061

If you're gonna create tension, make

sure you relieve it pretty quickly.

00:53:57,081 --> 00:54:00,831

So, um, so sometimes a lot of the

adventurers, they'll, they'll, they'll,

00:54:00,831 --> 00:54:04,341

start with this moment in their story

where it, there's, there's a lot

00:54:04,341 --> 00:54:06,111

of tension and that's a great hook.

00:54:06,141 --> 00:54:07,131

It's a great way to do it.

00:54:08,061 --> 00:54:10,671

But if that 10 tune is unrelenting.

00:54:12,561 --> 00:54:14,871

It, it just, it needs balance.

00:54:14,931 --> 00:54:19,341

So I, I would say smile, it's humor is, is

00:54:19,341 --> 00:54:23,811

seasoning and everything needs balance.

00:54:24,789 --> 00:54:27,159

John: you said it would be all

downhill from the introduction,

00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:28,089

and it certainly wasn't.

00:54:28,089 --> 00:54:31,382

I think we've gone very uphill

Beth Sherman, thank you so much for

00:54:31,382 --> 00:54:32,402

coming and being my guest today.

00:54:32,402 --> 00:54:35,202

This has been a wonderful

conversation, it's been an absolute

00:54:35,202 --> 00:54:36,372

delight to connect with you today.

00:54:37,284 --> 00:54:39,594

Beth Sherman: Well, it's been a pleasure

and as you can tell, I hate talking about

00:54:39,594 --> 00:54:41,304

myself, so it's been a real struggle.

00:54:42,012 --> 00:54:43,157

John: We, we soldier on.

00:54:44,349 --> 00:54:44,639

Beth Sherman: Yeah.

00:54:46,310 --> 00:54:49,250

John: A great episode with Beth

Sherman there, and if you took nothing

00:54:49,250 --> 00:54:54,230

else away from this conversation,

take the Beth Framework, brevity

00:54:54,590 --> 00:54:56,780

elephant in the room, truth, humanity.

00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,470

Four principles that professional

comedians use to convert a room

00:55:00,470 --> 00:55:04,370

full of strangers and they work just

as well from the conference stage.

00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:09,050

The thing I keep coming back to is the

distinction that Beth draws between

00:55:09,050 --> 00:55:11,150

trying to be funny and being human.

00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:15,980

Most speakers reach for a joke when what

they actually need is a moment of truth.

00:55:16,790 --> 00:55:19,880

There's a much lower bar

and a much higher return.

00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:23,840

Now you can find more information

about beth@bethsherman.com.

00:55:24,046 --> 00:55:26,896

I will put her LinkedIn bio in the

show notes as well if you would

00:55:26,896 --> 00:55:28,306

like to go and connect with her.

00:55:28,306 --> 00:55:29,986

She's very friendly, very approachable.

00:55:30,166 --> 00:55:32,986

I do recommend it now, if this

episode was useful to you, I

00:55:32,986 --> 00:55:37,456

would genuinely appreciate that

you leave us a review on Spotify.

00:55:37,846 --> 00:55:40,246

Even if you don't actively listen

on Spotify, you'll only take

00:55:40,246 --> 00:55:41,266

you a few moments to do that.

00:55:41,266 --> 00:55:41,866

Leave us a review.

00:55:41,866 --> 00:55:45,136

Make sure you're following the show

Does make a real difference to how the

00:55:45,136 --> 00:55:50,776

show gets found next week, though, more

on the craft of professional speaking.

00:55:51,020 --> 00:55:56,420

But until then, go and do something

worth talking about and keep showing up.

00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:57,230

See you next time.