This is the second half of the Kids Media Club's conversation with Chris Heatherly, the former Disney executive who oversaw Club Penguin at its peak. The discussion picks up where part one left off, diving deep into online safety, the realities of moderating kids' platforms at scale, and where kids gaming is headed next.

Chris pulls no punches on the subject of child safety online. He walks through the specific tools Club Penguin used — heavy speech filtering, outright bans for serious offences, and a clever technique called "fake send," where borderline messages appeared to send but were never actually delivered to other users. The insight behind fake send is worth sitting with: when bad actors stopped getting a social reaction to their behaviour, they largely stopped bothering.

He's equally candid about the limits of any platform's ability to keep kids safe, and draws a sharp distinction between what he sees as genuine child protection efforts and a broader political movement using child safety rhetoric to push for internet regulation that would affect everyone. It's a provocative argument, and one that sparks a good back-and-forth with the hosts.

Roblox comes up repeatedly throughout the episode, with Chris offering a robust defence of the platform against what he considers unfair criticism. He points out that the most serious harm tends to happen off platform — predators use Roblox to make contact but drive kids elsewhere to avoid detection — and argues that Roblox's moderation efforts are more substantial than the headlines suggest. He also shares some remarkable behind-the-scenes stories from the Club Penguin era, including a DDoS attack during a Star Wars event that exposed Disney's complete lack of cyber protection, and a subsequent investigation that pointed to a potential hostile foreign actor using teenage hackers as cover.

The conversation then shifts to the state of kids gaming more broadly. Chris argues that the market effectively collapsed after COPPA-style regulation created an uneven playing field — legitimate kids platforms had to comply while others with large child audiences didn't bother — and that Roblox and Minecraft essentially rebuilt it from scratch. His framing of Roblox as "the new console" is a headline moment: he believes it represents a genuine architectural and business model shift away from the console and mobile era, not just another platform.

On the creator economy, Chris is optimistic. He sees AI as the tool that finally lowers the barrier to game creation enough that the YouTube-to-Hollywood pipeline becomes the norm for gaming too. He also flags that handing development over to creators brings its own risks — notably questionable monetisation mechanics — though he's sceptical of some of the more alarmist takes around loot boxes.

The episode closes with a strong point on parental involvement: platforms can't do it alone, and parents need to be treated as a distributed moderation force rather than passive bystanders.

Takeaways:

1. The Kids Media Club podcast is currently accepting sponsorship opportunities for interested parties.
2. Listeners can engage with the podcast via LinkedIn or the official website for strategic conversations.
3. Chris Heatherly, an influential figure at Disney, shared profound insights during our discussion on children's online safety.
4. The conversation surrounding online safety for children remains critical and unresolved after two decades.
5. The challenges faced by Club Penguin in moderating content are similar to those currently confronted by Roblox.
6. We believe that empowering parents to monitor their children's online activity is essential for ensuring their safety.

Links referenced in this episode:

1. kidsmediaclubpodcast.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Disney
2. Club Penguin
3. Roblox
4. Pinterest
5. Sago Sago
6. Takaboka

The Kids Media Club podcast is open for sponsorship.

If you'd like to strategically put a conversation into the ears of your stakeholders before big events like BLE, Annecy or Mipcom, then drop us a line on LinkedIn or via our website kidsmediaclubpodcast.com.

Our conversation with Chris Heatherly, one of the key Disney execs that oversaw Club Penguin, was so dense that we opted to split it into two parts.

We really enjoyed this one and there was so much good conversation flowing.

This second half talks a bit more broadly about safety and kids online, which is a really hot topic at the moment.

And Chris has some really firm views on it.

We hope you enjoy.

I don't, because I'd love to talk a bit about the safety element because I feel like that's something that is still unsolved 20 years later.

Right, so what were you guys doing?

Obviously there was extensive in person moderation, chat filters.

I mean, is it still all the same things that we know today or why do you think it worked on Club Penguin?

Well, I mean we had all the same problems that Roblox has, right?

I mean, you know, there were constantly child predators trying to get access to kids.

There were, we had, you know, racist penguins that were, you know, would, you know, change their, like they would decide their color was going to be red and then they would go around and they would say to all the color, all the other kids in the room, you're green, you need to be red.

Change, change to red or get out of here.

You know.

And you know, there were, there, there were all kinds of, you know, whenever you create a platform, especially for young people, you know, bad people are going to try to come into that space and it's a forever game of whack a mole.

And so I feel, I have a lot of, I've been supportive of Dave and Roblox because I think they get unfairly maligned and I just, because I know how hard it is.

And you know, they've got far better technology than I had available at that time.

And a lot of what we did was pretty, I mean the things that, you know, in some ways it's like the, the really brutal tools were, are, are the most effective.

Right?

So like one was, you know, we just filtered, we just heavily censored speech in Club Penguin.

And you know, that's something that, as a more libertarian minded person when it comes to, you know, my own communications as an, on, on adult social media, I'm very concerned about censorship and, but, but I think you have to do that in a kid space, right?

And I draw a distinction between adults and kids.

You know, you know, we, so a lot we heavily filtered, right?

We had what was called fake sin, which was probably one of the most effective things, which is that you could post, you could, you could say if it was really bad, like you dropped a, like a curse word or a, like a, like a known racist word.

Like if it was like, let's say like, you know, 90 bad, you would just get banned.

And that was a very effective tool because kids didn't want to get banned, right?

And still one of the memes around colored penguin is, you know, oh, I got banned, right?

It was kind of became, became a joke.

But, but we, but fake sin was if it was sort of like, maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, but it's probably iffy, let's just err on the side of caution.

We would let you type it and it would appear on your screen, but it didn't go out to other people.

And that, and, and what we found is if people weren't socially rewarded for trolling and for being, you know, like for bullying, then they just stopped doing it.

And so, you know, banning, banning, fake send and, and, and, and filtering were really our three tools.

And then, and then, you know, and then moderation, right?

But moderation was, you know, we could only respond.

There were so many like igloos and you know, we'd have people who, you know, there's a thing in games called TTP which is if you make a, which is time to penis.

So if you make a, any kind of UGC tool that like somebody, one of the first things somebody is going to do with it is make some kind of phallic symbol or swastika.

And we kids would constantly do that and it would get reported.

And so, you know, when I see these reports on Roblox and it's like, you know, Chris Hansen goes online and finds salacious terrible content in Roblox.

Oh my gosh.

Like somebody made a Nazi game or something.

Like what they're not telling you is, is maybe five people saw that before it got reported or caught.

And then, and as soon as it got reported or caught, it got pulled down.

So you know, you're asking for a level of like pre crime and pretty prescience that you know that, that that is impossible.

Right?

And, and I, part of what I here's, here's the real thing going on with the kids media conversation, to be honest, which is there is a group of People out there that are activists who want to censor the Internet, they have their own reasons for doing it.

A lot of them are political or about control and they use these, this kid, this kid predator narrative to push stuff like online verification and a bunch of these laws that in the end probably are not going to do anything to keep kids safe, but are going to make, but are going to lead to a more Orwellian Internet for all of us.

And I really despise that because they're not being honest about their aims.

And some of them, and I've talked to some of these people because I know them from my days and some of them, and you know, some of them think they're doing the right thing, but they're just incredibly misguided.

But a lot of them, if you press them will say, well actually we think everyone needs to live under this kind of club Penguin, you know, very draconian, you know, kind of, you know, regime.

And my thing is like, look, what I think is appropriate for the world's largest playground is not what's appropriate for adults discussing the future of their country.

Right.

And so we have to allow for kind of different rules for different spaces and different audiences.

And so I don't like how the conversation has been distorted that way.

And I think that a lot of what's going on with Roblox is frankly those people who are trying to push the online verification thing like crazy right now, but it's not going to end with that because they want all kinds of controls on all kinds of things on the Internet.

But, and it's, it's just a never ending list.

And in the uk you're, you're seeing this, you know, all over the place, but, or it's short sellers who just want to short the stock.

So I, I, I've looked into Roblox and look, I'm not an expert.

I, I do know Dave, I've talked to him a little bit.

But I, I like, I've researched what they do on the moderation side and I don't see any major holes that I'm like, oh, like you guys are obviously not doing that.

Like, I think it's, it's more a case of like it's really, really hard and no one else is doing it at this scale.

And frankly he's got a bigger social online audience than all games combined.

He has CCU bigger than Steam.

So he's dealing with a community at a scale of like a Facebook or Instagram or whatever that's never been seen in A game anywhere before.

And people are trying to hold him to the perfect standard.

And I think sometimes he gets grumpy in his public communications and you really can't.

But you need to be transparent, I think.

But, but I want to defend them because I feel like, I do feel like they try and they put a lot in place and frankly they have a lot more in place than a lot of other people on the Internet.

And, and do you, do you.

But do you think that in some ways that, so where they've succeeded in terms of their moderation and do you think that's partly come in response to pressure around kind of children on the Internet?

And they kind of, that's become much more of an amplified conversation at the moment.

So I kind of, I completely understand your point around maybe the thin end of the wedge aspect to it in terms of age verification.

But, but I also feel like that it becomes much more a conversation now and I feel like that must have an impact on platforms like Roblox in terms of increasing some of those safeguards.

I can't say really, to be honest.

I think that, my impression is that they were doing a lot already and now they're, they weren't talking about it.

And now.

And I think that, and this was a problem that Disney, I think Disney.

Look, we, we.

There were bad articles about us too, right?

People just don't remember that.

But, and, and, and you know, hiding behind the Disney name is like, you know, there's a lot scare Disney.

Do you think?

What's that?

And did, and did that scare Disney?

Was that kind of one of the reasons that they might have ended up becoming a bit lukewarm in terms of their support of the platform?

Well, no, no, it didn't scare them, but they started realizing it was like the theme park business where, you know what, they're there, there, there, there are, you know, there are pedophiles in, in Disneyland too, right.

They never talk about it, but that whole place is low jacked with cameras and face recognition.

And I mean, you know, they're, I mean, you know, like there's no more Orwellian place on Earth than Disneyland or Disney park, right?

They have to do that to keep those kids safe.

You know, and so it's, you know, I think that.

But they don't talk about it, right.

And so one thing that we did at Penguin is I did a, I did a summit one time where proactively, because we were proud of it and I was like, look, let's.

This was during the whole COPA 2 debate, you know, and so I brought a bunch of kids, media journalists, you know, David Kleeman was one of them, you know, but a bunch of people like this up to Kelowna and we took them through like, you know, how we do it.

They met with the moderators.

Like, we really, you know, we, we took them through every aspect of how we do safety.

And, and, and we were very honest about, look, we're like we're encountering this.

I mean, man, I would get, I mean, I would get stories about some of these kids and how they were being abused or wanted to commit suicide or whatever that would curl your hair and, and, and I would have to get on the phone at Saturday night or Sunday night or, you know, whatever.

My, my head lawyer would always say, you know, like, if we have any chance of going to heaven, it's because of the work we're doing right now.

Right?

It was like, you know, we would, we would, we would.

Fortunately, Disney had, you know, ahead, a former FBI, you know, very senior guy running security.

And we had great connections with law enforcement, especially because of the parks, because after 9, 11, they had to be really on top of terrorism.

And so we were able to use that infrastructure to, you know, to save, legitimately save kids lives.

But Disney didn't want to talk about that stuff.

I did, right, because I thought it's like people need to understand that, that you know, what, the Internet isn't safe and, and, and Club Penguin is trying to be the safest place on the Internet.

But that doesn't mean that we're ever 100% safe.

And a lot of what we tr in our advocacy and our social giving and other things was to do educational programs for kids to help them understand, like you have to take responsibility for your own online activity.

And this is, you know, I raise my kids this way, right, because they, I raised them with Club Penguin and they know about all this stuff, right?

And as a result, like, they have not been as, you know, let's say, promiscuous on the Internet as some of their peers, you know, because they understand that the Internet is, can be a great thing, but it also can be a very dangerous thing.

And I think that what we have done is that we lie to everyone that, you know, some corporation or, you know, AI or some other thing is going to make the Internet just perfectly safe for them.

And they don't have to be vigilant.

And the reality is that everyone has to be vigilant because there are bad people out there trying to do bad Things all the time.

All the time, all day, every day.

If, if Dave, if Dave came out and told you how many kids they've have, have, have.

I bet he gets hundreds, if hundreds of kids a week, if not a thousand a week, who, who go online and say they're going to kill themselves.

And I would bet you all of those are getting referred to law enforcement.

And they never talk about it.

Right.

And so people need to.

And you know, to a certain degree you could talk about, well, how appropriate it is to get into that.

But that's the dark side of all this that no one wants to talk about.

But I can because I'm kind of out of it.

But it's hard, right?

And I think you have to.

And I can say that, right?

And people will listen to me and go, oh yeah, he's saying it's hard, it must be hard.

He has no agenda to lie to me.

But if Dave says it, it's like, well, he's just saying that now.

He's whining, he's making excuses and it's like, well, no, it's hard and you have to constantly go at it.

But if you have a focused effort, you can keep it mostly safe.

And mostly safe is better than most of the Internet.

Yeah.

And I remember reading Juice Van Drunen, who writes a gaming newsletter super juiced at he after the Hindenburg short selling kind of alarmist report that was what, 18 months ago?

Just over a year ago.

I forget.

But he published his newsletter with a table of reports from one of the centers for Child exploitation that monitors these reports and active investigations in the US And Roblox came in behind Pinterest, lower than Pinterest for reports of child exploitation and investigations.

So again, there was all of this alarm and the Hindenburg report had been launched and everybody was going crazy and pausing projects when, you know, it was behind all of the meta platforms, but it was even lower than Pinterest.

What happens with Roblox, and I found this in some of my research, is that it's exactly the same problem we have with Club Penguin, which is that it's too hard to groom on the service itself, but you can meet people and then try to drive them off the platform to some other service.

Yeah.

And the thing is that, that you, that the predators are, they're really good at what they do.

They're really good at convincing these kids that, that you know, that they're to interact with them.

Right.

And they're also, and a lot of these are kids who look, they're they may be on the spectrum or have other, you know, other psychological issues or, or, you know, developmental issues or whatever.

That's why they socialize online, because they struggle they over.

I'm not talking about everyone because everyone's on the Internet, right?

But, but the, but your hyper Internet

people tend to be the most social vulnerabilities, basically certain.

So they're more vulnerable, right?

And they're lonely.

And now somebody pays attention to them.

And then these groomers are very good at.

The other thing is they create.

They find ways to.

We used to call it dictionary Dance, but ways to, ways to use emojis or, you know, they come up with code for the app they want you to go to or for the account they want you to follow or whatever it is, right?

They come up with a code that is hard to detect.

And then, and then because they're not just saying go to Instagram and DM me at whatever there.

It's in code, but the kid knows the code or they figure out the code or they search.

They figure they search somewhere else.

They put two together and then they meet off platform and that's where the bad stuff happens.

But they meet on Roblox.

And so this is the thing that's really hard is that Roblox gets a lot of grief.

But if you look at the cases that turn really bad, where, where it really gets bad is outside of Roblox, where they can't control it.

And this is the hardest hole to close is the I met someone and then I go somewhere else problem.

And, and it's just.

And it's a, it's, it's.

It's a game of Whack a Mole.

Because the code always changes the tool, the ways, the tools that they use.

Like all these people do is sit there and try to find ways to lure kids off your service into the raw, into unsafe places.

That's it.

You know, and they work in groups and, and, and they're, they're.

They're often fronts for things like, for example, we got hacked one time.

We were getting brutally.

I mean, one of the things that really killed Club Penguin was we were getting botted at just insane levels, right?

And during the Star wars party, which was going to be this huge event, right?

And everyone's trying to log in, and we got savagely, DDoS.

It turned out Disney had no DDoS protection as a company.

None.

Zero for disney.com for any, any of their sites.

No DDoS protection.

So it took us, you know, days and days and days and days to get DDoS protection, all while because we had to come up with it because Disney had never been dosed before.

Never been dosed.

And we were like, well, how do you surely.

Like, you're a big corporation, big name.

We just never encountered it before, so we didn't need it.

So we're dealing with all this, and then we wind up hiring.

It was so material on our business that we wound up hiring a private investigation firm to find out what's going on.

Well, what we found out was that it was a group of kids out of the UK and France.

They would find these, what they called script kiddies at the time, but kids who, you know, especially with Flash, it was very hackable, and so they were looking for exploits.

So what these kids were.

And there was a guy behind them.

And I think we eventually found him, but I. I think he was a hostile foreign actor.

I don't think that he was just a.

Like a hacker.

I think he was maybe affiliated with the government or something, and he was using these kids.

He told them how to hack it.

And so they were just running these scripts and doing this stuff, and they thought they were doing it to get free stuff, like we're gonna get, you know, free costumes and legacy items and whatever.

But what they were actually doing was they were like running at the electric fence, you know, to draw the current off so he could get through.

And he was basically piggybacking off their efforts.

And he was inside Disney systems.

He was pulling scripts from the studio, doing all kinds of stuff.

So there's all kinds of stuff like this that happens out there, right?

Constantly.

Constantly.

And you just.

All you can do is fight it, you know?

Whoa, there are some real war stories there, Chris.

That's unreal.

So this episode's going to go out the week of gdc.

What do you see as the current state of play for kids gaming?

What are the hopeful spots?

What are the lookouts?

I mean, I think we've gotten into safety, and you've given some really great context there, but what else are you.

I mean, kids gaming kind of died in a way after copa.

And this is.

This is part of the reason that I don't love regulation is what I realized is that the.

The regulation, if you were a legitimate actor and you admitted that you were making stuff for kids, then you had to follow all these laws, and the laws made it harder to make a good business.

And then it.

You, you know, and you were competing against actors who had significant kid audiences, but.

But didn't admit it and so they didn't have to follow law and you were at a real disadvantage.

And so that's what was going on with mobile, right?

Is there is.

Kids were a massive part of the mobile game playership.

Remember Smurf's Village, that controversy, right?

There were tons of kids playing mobile games and the mobile games were unrestricted and in, in monetization, in, in activities, all of this stuff.

And kids just kind of moved from traditional games to whatever they're or from kids games to whatever their parent had on their phone.

So the kids gaming business, the kids gaming business outside of Roblox kind of collapsed to, you know, preschool kind of stuff like, like oh, I'm forgetting the Canadian group that, that just closed that was doing that did kids games but was really good at it.

Sega, not Sego.

Mini.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, yeah, them too.

Right?

There were, there were Sago Sago and

yeah, you know, Tucker Takaboka.

Takaboka was one.

And then there was another group in Canada that did kids get like licensed kids games.

But there were a few.

But really the kids market kind of collapsed and then Roblox took off and, and brought it back.

And so I think that in many ways kind of the kids gaming market is, you know, the kids gaming market and Roblox are the same thing now.

And Minecraft, right?

Those two things really absorbed the kids market.

My kids all went on a Minecraft after Club Penguin.

One of my kids still plays it.

And you know, that's kind of defined kids gaming, you know.

So I think the kids gaming sort of is the future, has pioneered the future of where we're headed with games now, which is really the creator culture because you know, where we're headed is, you know, games that are more like content that are deployed into these social networks that the gaming social networks like Roblox that or Minecraft, right?

That where the creators of that content are able to monetize, right.

And build their own little cottage business.

And some of them much more than a cottage business.

And so I think that Roblox is a complete.

I don't think people understand what Roblox really is because it's a architectural and business model shift from the gaming of the last like, you know, of the console era and the mobile era.

I always say, I was just on podcasts earlier where I was saying, look, Roblox is the new console, right?

It is the.

Everyone keeps saying when's the new console going to come out?

There isn't going to be a new console that changes gaming materially the new console is Roblox, right?

And to a lesser degree, ufn.

And so this creator era is where we're headed.

And then you get into this new set of problems, which is okay, now I can have hostile actors who are not just on the, who are not just on the player side, but they're also on the developer side.

And so Roblox is seeing this with like, you know, all kinds of like gambling mechanics and you know, and, and you know, loot box mechanics and stuff like that.

That some of which I think there's too much fear factor and kind of engineered uninformed BS that like loot boxes are fine.

Right?

Like, like this, this whole thing around, I know half your audience has passed out, but you know, loot boxes are fine.

There's no, you know, there's no one you're not going to go to there.

There are no AA meetings for, or 12 step programs for loot box addicts.

Right?

It's just, it doesn't exist.

Like, you know, like if a kid opens too many loot boxes and they run out of credits, they have to go back to mom and ask for more Ro Robux.

Right?

And mom can say no to that.

So the, the, the idea that like loot boxes are the problem, we need to ban loot boxes.

You know, like there's much more insidious mechanics that I think people are.

And, and you know, this is a culture that at one level wants to ban loot boxes and is mainstreaming prediction markets.

Like we're completely schizophrenic on the message that we send to the culture, to our kids.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Like if you're under 18.

If you're under 18, you know, we want to act like it's Mr. Rogers neighborhood and the second you turn 18.

Yeah, no, it's only sign up for Polymarket and Couchy and only fans and stuff like that.

It's, it's.

The dichotomy is bizarre.

Right?

Yeah, yeah, but, but, but you know, the, the thing to me is that so, you know, handing game development over to creators creates those risks as well.

But I think that where we're headed is a more egalitarian form of game development.

If you want to be a game developer, you're not going to come up like a lot of us came up, which is like, you know, you go work, you go get some job in a studio or maybe you work in QA and then you kind of work or you work in, you know, moderation or something.

And work your way up.

It's going to be that you vibe coded something and you put it out there and you got some traction and people noticed it and, and you know, more of kind of the way I would imagine that the YouTube to Hollywood kind of pipeline.

Right.

You know, I'm a YouTuber and I learned to edit and that's how I got my editing skills.

And maybe I went to college and maybe I didn't.

And so I just think that, that Roblox is the big disruptor.

You know, I mean there's really, if you read Matthew Ball's report, there's sort of two big things that are impacting gaming right now.

And it's, it's Roblox and it's China.

And you know, China is a whole other kind of rabbit hole we could go into.

But you know, from a Western perspective, the big disruptor in gaming is Roblox.

And I, I, I only expect that to continue.

And I think, and I think what's that?

I said I think a wise woman said that on a podcast a few years ago and many.

Yeah, she's right, I said it.

Where they're headed with AI Happen to where they're headed with AI, right?

On Roblox, Dave announced that they're doing an mcp, which is Model Context Protocol.

It's a way to, to integrate AI with.

Yeah, and you can generate models like that now you'll be able to generate

code, whole games, all that kind of stuff.

I think that the different, there are architectural reasons that I could go into that.

It's going to be difficult for Unreal or Unity in their current form to incorporate AI at the level that Roblox is.

And so I think that Roblox is almost uniquely benefited at technologically or uniquely situated from a technology standpoint to benefit from AI.

And so I think that that plus the creator monetization, I mean one thing I've learned in Web3 is that, you know, this generation, they understand that when they're creating content.

See, when we were doing, when we were doing Club Penguin or a lot of games of that era, community was something you got for free, right?

So it was like, I make a good game and of course there's a community and they just, that just happens, right?

And over time people figured out, wait a second, I'm, I'm, I'm creating a lot of value for these games.

How do I benefit from this?

Right?

And by the way, this, this is becoming not just a hobby, but kind of a second job.

I'd like to be able to make some money.

And as the creator economy starts to happen, because a lot of these kids also grew up aspiring to be a YouTuber or TikTok or whatever, they think with that psychology and now that they can do that in gaming, I think that approach is going to be kind of the primary approach that people come to the games industry, that's where they're going to start.

And so the creator economy plus AI, plus this, plus the fact that Roblox is a cloud gaming platform, not a client side platform, which I think the.

Is one of the big architectural problems with a lot of the game engines is they're still.

Or they're still.

There's still artifacts of package software and like downloaded stuff.

And so the fact that Roblox is a social network.

Right.

And has social effects like a TikTok or an Instagram or whatever, all of those things just kind of make it evolutionarily more adapted to where the future is going in gaming.

And I think that, I mean, Chris,

I think kind of you kind of what you put your finger on there for me is that the.

What I always thought was an obstacle for social gaming platforms was that unlike YouTube where you could literally just get your phone and video yourself and.

And upload, took quite a lot of work to build your own game.

But I think AI provides, provides the kind of the ability for everyone to become a game creator in a way that just wasn't kind of feasible before.

So it really, it really amplifies that platform for roadblocks.

That this has been a kind of fascinating, fascinating discussion.

Kind of sobering as well.

Although I was wondering if in some ways it's something that we spoke about on a previous podcast, that maybe the best way to safeguard children is rather to have a ban is just to make sure that platforms like Roblox are kind of responsible in terms of the moderation because that's safer than kids having a VPN and then going onto those platforms that way really.

So it made me think that it's kind of more responsible way.

I think it's also with AI, you can, you can keep the parents more informed of what their kids are doing than ever before.

And I think that you have to.

You, we have to empower parents to.

They are our distributed moderation force.

Right?

Yep.

And they need to know what their kids are doing and, and you know, without tattletailing on the kid every five seconds.

Like they need to know if their kid, if something happened.

You know, I have a friend who, you know, contacted me because her daughter lost her account because some kids she brought, you know, met online stole her account and stole all her stuff and, and probably sold her account.

And, you know, that that was the first time she really, up until then, she'd just been giving her kid gift cards.

Right.

And, and, you know, I sort of, she asked me what to do about it.

I sort of gave her some advice.

But I said, look, you need to, you know, if your kid's gonna be on a platform like that, you, you, you need to monitor what's going on because don't.

You can't just rely on some corporation to catch it.

They've got millions.

Yeah, yeah, you've got one.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

I, I mean, I think.

Yeah, and that's a kind of very powerful point, I think.

I mean, we could probably talk for another hour quite easily, but.

But I know that's been a really fascinating discussion.

Thanks so much for that, Chris.

Well, thank you guys.

Really appreciate it.

Thank you.

That was awesome.

Chris really loved it.

So, so much more to say.

We'll.

We'll repeat.

Well, yeah, we'll have to get you back for a second episode.

Yeah, happy to do it.

Amazing.

Beautiful.

Take care.

Great.

Thanks very much.

I'll do a quick sign off.

So thanks to Chris for being a fantastic guest and thanks to you guys for listening.

Please like and subscribe and you can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts and we will see you next week.

Week.