Artwork for podcast The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
Episode 420 - Footballers and Racism
11th March 2024 • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
00:00:00 00:52:32

Share Episode

Shownotes

Topics:

00:45 Introducing the Hosts and a Missing Member

01:27 Diving into Today's Hot Topics: Footballers and Controversies

05:55 Exploring the Complexities of Racism and Power Dynamics

12:11 The Legal Landscape of Racism and Public Perception

15:28 Analyzing Specific Cases and the Definition of Racism

19:09 The Debate Continues: Institutional Power and Racism

22:50 Reflecting on Behavior, Privilege, and the Essence of Racism

26:52 Exploring the Complexities of Racism and Privilege

28:04 The Condescension in Discourse on Racism

28:58 Redefining Racism: Beyond Skin Color and Gender

29:23 The Trivialization of Racism and Its Legal Implications

31:55 The Misunderstood Nature of Racism in Society

34:50 The Debate Over Racism Definitions and Its Impact

36:57 Summation: A Call for a Fair Understanding of Racism

41:21 The Nuclear Power Debate: A Futile Pursuit?

49:24 Closing Remarks and Miscellaneous Discussions

To financially support the Podcast you can make:

We Livestream every Monday night at 7:30 pm Brisbane time. Follow us on Facebook or YouTube. Watch us live and join the discussion in the chat room.

We have a website. www.ironfistvelvetglove.com.au

You can email us. The address is trevor@ironfistvelvetglove.com.au



Transcripts

Speaker:

Suburban Eastern Australia, an environment that has, over time,

Speaker:

evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of homosapiens.

Speaker:

But today, we observe a small tribe akin to a group of meerkats that

Speaker:

gather together atop a small mound to watch, question, and discuss

Speaker:

the current events of their city.

Speaker:

Their country and their world at large.

Speaker:

Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the

Speaker:

Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

Speaker:

Well, we're back.

Speaker:

Episode 420, Iron Fist Velvet Glove podcast, streaming to you live

Speaker:

on a Monday night from Brisbane.

Speaker:

I'm Trevor, aka the Iron Fist.

Speaker:

With me for the moment, Joe, the tech guy.

Speaker:

How are you, Joe?

Speaker:

Evening all.

Speaker:

And somewhere out there, might be Scott, but he just hasn't arrived.

Speaker:

So, don't know what the story is with Scott.

Speaker:

Hopefully, he'll join in at some stage.

Speaker:

So, so yeah, hopefully Scott will be there.

Speaker:

We've had a few technical issues in the lead up.

Speaker:

That's why we're a couple of minutes late.

Speaker:

If you're in the chat room, say hello.

Speaker:

There are two people there, apparently.

Speaker:

Unless that's just you and I that are counted in that too, Joe.

Speaker:

The tech.

Speaker:

Okay, good.

Speaker:

Say hello if you're there.

Speaker:

topics.

Speaker:

What are we going to talk about?

Speaker:

Well, you've got to hand it to footballers for presenting this podcast

Speaker:

with plenty of material over the years.

Speaker:

Israel Folau was fantastic for providing hours of arguments.

Speaker:

A lot of it involving the 12th man as well.

Speaker:

a lot of that time I was actually on the same wavelength as the 12th man, I think.

Speaker:

So anyway, we've got a couple of footballers in the last week.

Speaker:

Samantha Kerr, soccer player, and we've also got Ezra Mamm,

Speaker:

who was racially insulted, while playing in America on the NRL game.

Speaker:

Or was he racially insulted?

Speaker:

It's all getting quite confusing, Joe.

Speaker:

Have you been keeping up with the to ing and fro ing about how different

Speaker:

people have labelled these events?

Speaker:

I merely saw the Sam Kerr stuff, I didn't see the other one.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

So, so yeah, dear listener, there's quite a lot of discussion about what these,

Speaker:

are you, you know, the true meaning of these events, whether they were racist

Speaker:

and a lot of people getting very upset online about, how they label these events.

Speaker:

So, so we're going to spend a bit of time on that and what

Speaker:

else are we going to talk about?

Speaker:

what else is on my list here?

Speaker:

We've got, a little China update and, About the Reserve Bank and, oh,

Speaker:

remember we spoke just a week or two ago about, our obligations in relation

Speaker:

to supplying arms to Israel and whether we were in breach of, of, laws

Speaker:

regarding the supply of arms and how, The Netherlands had stopped supplying.

Speaker:

Well, in the meantime, Anthony Albanese has been referred to an

Speaker:

international, yes, an international court for his actions and

Speaker:

inactions in relation to Israel.

Speaker:

So kind of along the same lines, a bit about that and, maybe we'll talk a

Speaker:

little bit about nuclear power as well because that's come up on the radar.

Speaker:

Because that's the one and only policy that Dutton and the Liberal

Speaker:

Party, Joe, have come up with.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

It's it's Clean Coal 2.

Speaker:

0, isn't it?

Speaker:

It's what?

Speaker:

Clean Coal 2.

Speaker:

0.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's another excuse not to, stop burning coal for the next 20 years,

Speaker:

whilst we faff around thinking about possibly maybe doing nuclear.

Speaker:

Correct.

Speaker:

It, it just shows how abysmal this group is, that that's the best

Speaker:

thing that they could come up with.

Speaker:

And it's a complete dud of a decision.

Speaker:

Nobody is, is going to be up for this except Joe, their existing

Speaker:

voters who might like the idea.

Speaker:

But, but when, in terms of the crowd they've got to win over to win an

Speaker:

election, this is not going to fly.

Speaker:

And as people learn more about it.

Speaker:

they'll, they'll be even more against it, I think, once,

Speaker:

once they understand the facts.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Anyway, we'll get to that.

Speaker:

So, ah, oh, before we start, Joe, what we're grateful for, let me just say I'm

Speaker:

grateful again for Anesthetic, because I'm going to have some more of it tomorrow.

Speaker:

Because I've got, ah, the listener, I've got really bad

Speaker:

varicose veins on my right leg.

Speaker:

I've had them for years and I decided to do something about it.

Speaker:

And while I'm getting these maintenance issues done on my

Speaker:

body, I thought, what the heck?

Speaker:

I'm 59.

Speaker:

I'll get these things done before my warranty expires.

Speaker:

So I'll be under the knife again tomorrow and enjoying some anaesthetic.

Speaker:

And, yeah, I'll be fixing out my varicose veins.

Speaker:

So, so once again, I'm grateful for anaesthetic.

Speaker:

You grateful for anything, Joe?

Speaker:

Are you?

Speaker:

Well, my sister in law bought me a bottle of rum whilst I was in

Speaker:

France, which I wasn't thankful for at the time because I had to get it

Speaker:

back through customs and in luggage.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

but it does turn out to be a very nice bottle of rum, so I'm thankful for that.

Speaker:

There we go.

Speaker:

That's a simple one.

Speaker:

That's good.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Dear listener, just a, a, a reminder, this podcast has chapters, you should be able

Speaker:

to look on your app and find the chapters and scoot around topics if you don't want

Speaker:

to hear us fluff about with our personal anecdotes at the beginning, if you want

Speaker:

to jump straight into the meaty topics.

Speaker:

Check out the chapters and do that.

Speaker:

So, well, Samantha Kerr, another footballer presenting an ethical

Speaker:

conundrum, if you've been living in a cave and haven't heard, so there

Speaker:

was an allegation that the Matildas captain, Samantha Kerr, was in a

Speaker:

taxi cab and threw up and there was an altercation with the taxi driver

Speaker:

about the fare and the police became involved and that she called a British

Speaker:

police officer, a stupid white bastard.

Speaker:

And that she has denied.

Speaker:

She said she called him a stupid white cop, I think, is the latest version.

Speaker:

But certainly the use of the word white is not disputed.

Speaker:

And as Crikey said, this has seen a flood of takes.

Speaker:

conservative commentator Calla Bond, writing for the Herald Sun, said the

Speaker:

decision to charge her with hurting a policeman's feelings was madness.

Speaker:

Adding it would be one of the least offensive things he'd been called.

Speaker:

Writing for Crikey, lawyer Michael Bradley said there was a legal precedent

Speaker:

that being called white isn't a term of abuse, nor a descriptor of any

Speaker:

ethnic, national or racial group.

Speaker:

And he based that on a case where a woman called a prison officer.

Speaker:

Oh, by the way, dear listener, language warning in this episode, unfortunately.

Speaker:

Keep the kiddies away.

Speaker:

So yeah, a woman called a prison officer.

Speaker:

A fucking white piece of shit, some years ago, and apparently got off.

Speaker:

That was in Australia, wasn't it?

Speaker:

Yes, it was.

Speaker:

Indeed.

Speaker:

And this is in the UK.

Speaker:

Indeed.

Speaker:

And no doubt the laws are written quite differently.

Speaker:

They are, yes.

Speaker:

former socceroo, Craig Foster, urged Football Australia to

Speaker:

strip Kerr of her captaincy.

Speaker:

If the allegation is proven, saying all racism should be dealt with equally.

Speaker:

But later on, he recount, he, he went back on that, and he said, quote,

Speaker:

Sam Kerr's case has created immensely important conversations and exposed gaps

Speaker:

in Australia's knowledge, including mine.

Speaker:

I am not at all surprised to have got this wrong.

Speaker:

Apologise to Sam for reaching the wrong conclusion, and am very pleased

Speaker:

to be able to improve my advocacy.

Speaker:

So, that was him going back on what he'd originally said, and, we've

Speaker:

got, an academic told the Sydney Morning Herald, racism is prejudice

Speaker:

plus institutional power, and Kerr's alleged slur didn't fit the bill.

Speaker:

so, oh look, dear listener, what it's going to come down

Speaker:

to is people's understanding, Lyman's understanding of racism.

Speaker:

Compared with legal and sort of NGO government use and

Speaker:

understanding of the term racism.

Speaker:

So, we'll get to that.

Speaker:

Um, here's another take.

Speaker:

This is from a Twitter account of AYEDFY who's posted Lots of people on the

Speaker:

left, suddenly okay with a highly paid coloniser denigrating a working class

Speaker:

Indigenous person with racial slurs.

Speaker:

Good on the local police for resisting Kerr's imperialist violence.

Speaker:

Joe, I like that one just as an example of, you know, every, one man's freedom

Speaker:

fighter is another man's terrorist.

Speaker:

Just another way of looking at things.

Speaker:

I like that one.

Speaker:

Appreciated that different take on that one.

Speaker:

Yeah, I mean, the UK is well known for being the police chasing

Speaker:

down people for Twitter comments and charging them with offence.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

so that it's happening in all directions doesn't surprise me.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

Here's some more comments just to give you some flavour of the arguments.

Speaker:

I don't get it.

Speaker:

How is it possible to give racist offence to a white person?

Speaker:

It's hurt feelings against The exercise of racial power through language.

Speaker:

Conservatives think they win by turning everything on its head.

Speaker:

And another person writes, A lot of people don't actually understand the

Speaker:

true definition of racism is based on systems of power and oppression.

Speaker:

not just insults in a bar.

Speaker:

And Joe, the Human Rights Commission said, Racism is the process by which systems

Speaker:

and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities and

Speaker:

outcomes for people based on race.

Speaker:

Racism is more than just prejudice in thought or action.

Speaker:

It occurs when this prejudice, whether individual or institutional,

Speaker:

So Joe, I would have thought that if you just think that a certain racial group

Speaker:

is, is less worthy, is somehow lower in status, is to be denigrated in some way,

Speaker:

you've got a negative attitude to a racial group, that that was kind of racism, is

Speaker:

how I would have thought of as race, kind of the dictionary definition of racism.

Speaker:

But what a lot of these commentators are saying is that, nope, it's got to

Speaker:

be accompanied by the person making the insult or, or sort of the racial,

Speaker:

racist act, has to have some sort of power over the other person, that will

Speaker:

allow them to discriminate, potentially, and also handy if there's some sort

Speaker:

of institution involved in it as well that they represent, if there's

Speaker:

some sort of institutional power.

Speaker:

So.

Speaker:

This is special pleading, isn't it?

Speaker:

Well, it's extra sort of hurdles and elements of Special pleading.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I think what's happening here So really what they're saying is somebody

Speaker:

insulting somebody in a bar, calling somebody a bastard or something like

Speaker:

that, isn't racism unless it comes with some sort of power imbalance or some

Speaker:

sort of institutional power imbalance.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And, unfortunately, the people wielding that argument are also doing

Speaker:

it in a way that's really denigrating the other people who are using the

Speaker:

more common dictionary definition.

Speaker:

And the reason this is happening, Joe, I think, is it because people

Speaker:

are applying a legalistic definition of racism to the circumstances.

Speaker:

And in the law, look, they don't want to deal with trivial cases.

Speaker:

They don't want to just deal with minor matters.

Speaker:

They do in England.

Speaker:

Well, okay, maybe they do, but I can see that the law would say, look, arguments

Speaker:

in a bar, we don't necessarily want to hear about somebody just slagging

Speaker:

off across the street at somebody.

Speaker:

we want to see, a genuine potential for discrimination.

Speaker:

We want to see power being used inappropriately.

Speaker:

We want to see, institutions involved in order for us to apply

Speaker:

extra legal penalties, because often this is like an aggravating aspect

Speaker:

of an offence, like if you are.

Speaker:

And so I can see how the law would say, we've got these extra bits

Speaker:

and pieces that we want to see.

Speaker:

before we're going to create extra penalties for racism.

Speaker:

And, but then the people who are wielding that argument are really

Speaker:

then saying, well, there you go.

Speaker:

That's what racism means in everyday life.

Speaker:

And it's not.

Speaker:

It can mean more than that.

Speaker:

It's, it doesn't have to jump through those hurdles in everyday life as we,

Speaker:

the common people, understand racism.

Speaker:

So, so that's where I'm getting to with this.

Speaker:

And I'm finding it dangerous, unnecessary, risky, when people want to, to make it

Speaker:

more difficult to describe something as racism, because racism is an ugly thing.

Speaker:

Why would we want to be?

Speaker:

Limiting the idea of it, when we don't have to.

Speaker:

We should be calling it out when it's there and not finding

Speaker:

excuses that it doesn't exist.

Speaker:

And it's all then complicated by sympathy for, for wanting things

Speaker:

tossed out when they're just trivial.

Speaker:

So that's an, sort of an overlay over, over the whole thing.

Speaker:

So I can see comments are starting to flood in and, oh, Scott's not joining us.

Speaker:

Not sure.

Speaker:

But, anyway.

Speaker:

I'll get back to the comments after I've had my rant on this,

Speaker:

and then see what everybody says.

Speaker:

Might be easiest rather than dealing with it.

Speaker:

So keep making your comments, and I'll try and get to them.

Speaker:

So let me do a bit more.

Speaker:

So, so where this gets tricky then is where we've had the case

Speaker:

of the Broncos footballer, Ezra Mann, who was playing football, NRL

Speaker:

first round, playing in Las Vegas.

Speaker:

And Spencer Leniu, Leniui, who I think is of a kind of a

Speaker:

Polynesian descent on the field.

Speaker:

called Ezra Mamm a monkey, and he, Ezra Mamm was immediately, greatly offended,

Speaker:

immediately reported it to the referee, and apparently shortly, you know, the game

Speaker:

finished not long afterwards, and he was in the sheds crying and very upset by it.

Speaker:

by this insult.

Speaker:

So if you're going to hold that it's only racist, it's only racism if it's

Speaker:

accompanied by institutional power, then you'd have to say that that

Speaker:

footballer wasn't acting with any institutional power against Ezra Mamm.

Speaker:

And therefore, what he said to Ezra Mamm.

Speaker:

Wasn't racist.

Speaker:

Because it was the lack of the institutional power and

Speaker:

the ability to discriminate.

Speaker:

And that's just crazy.

Speaker:

But also, was he calling him a monkey because of the color of his skin, or was

Speaker:

he saying, oh, you're a fucking monkey?

Speaker:

Because you've got less intelligence than the average human.

Speaker:

Yeah, who knows what he was Well, actually, I do have his statement here.

Speaker:

So this is the statement by Spencer Lenny Yu, am I right?

Speaker:

Lenny Yu?

Speaker:

I've mucked up the pronunciation, but, Because he was in front of the

Speaker:

NRL Commission, so he's been charged with, sort of, conduct unbecoming

Speaker:

to the game, I think is more or less what he's been charged with.

Speaker:

And his statement was, I'm so sorry I said that to Ezra and made him feel little.

Speaker:

This game is so fast, and at the time I didn't know the meaning

Speaker:

of that word, and how much it means to the Indigenous community.

Speaker:

He said something to me, and I said something to him,

Speaker:

and I thought it was banter.

Speaker:

At the time, I thought it was one brown man saying something to another brown man.

Speaker:

How we speak to each other is so common.

Speaker:

At the time, I had no idea what that word meant.

Speaker:

There is no room for racism in the game, and I'm glad he's brought it up.

Speaker:

I love the Indigenous community and their culture.

Speaker:

We wouldn't have the game without them.

Speaker:

Looking back on it now, I can't believe he used that word, but I didn't mean,

Speaker:

in any racial way, I'm so sorry.

Speaker:

So, does that answer that, Joe, as to what he was thinking when he said it?

Speaker:

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like he was just Let's, let's, let's, let's just assume

Speaker:

the worst, and they just didn't think it was a right, just, imagine somebody

Speaker:

using it in a racial slur, like they're just like, you know, if you don't have

Speaker:

institutional power attached to it.

Speaker:

The definition being used by a lot of these people Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker:

means it's, it's not racism.

Speaker:

And it clearly could be.

Speaker:

Well, then the special pleading is does he have more power because of the

Speaker:

colour of his skin than the person?

Speaker:

But they're both brown.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but one's an Aboriginal, one's an Islander.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

So is an island a slightly less high on the scale?

Speaker:

This is where, why would you introduce this power necessity if you don't have to?

Speaker:

Because it gets really ugly then, doesn't it?

Speaker:

Like, Joe It's the race to the bottom, isn't it?

Speaker:

It's, I'm more oppressed than you are.

Speaker:

Is, is a multi million dollar footballer With access to prime ministers and

Speaker:

celebrities and the media, more powerful than an English bobby, in some respects.

Speaker:

Yeah, an English bobby has the power of the law behind them.

Speaker:

But how about a white guy in a pub, a tradie in a pub, who is white, who

Speaker:

insults a multi million dollar footballer?

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

They get into an argument and the multi million dollar footballer,

Speaker:

Sam Kerr, if she'd insulted Just a working white, a white working

Speaker:

class man in the pub, for example.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Who doesn't have the power of the police force behind him.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

you know, the argument would be by these people running this line is, let's

Speaker:

say she insulted a white, the white taxi driver, not the white, Policeman.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

The argument would be, well, he's just part of the institution of white people

Speaker:

that's privileged, and therefore, whether he knows it or not, he's wielding

Speaker:

institutional power that she doesn't have.

Speaker:

And you know what?

Speaker:

People are going to get really pissed with that sort of argument.

Speaker:

When they are of the working class, they don't see any institution that

Speaker:

they're part of, and Well, they're standing up for them, correct.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's, it's a, it's a hurdle that people are wanting to throw in, that I think is

Speaker:

really only needed when you're looking at the legal issue, when you're looking

Speaker:

at extra penalties, and you're trying to find something worthy of extra penalty.

Speaker:

But for the general notion of a racist act, I think it's a mistake

Speaker:

what these people are doing.

Speaker:

So, um, actually I've got a clip here, Joe.

Speaker:

so, Milwaukee Rites, 2016.

Speaker:

Angry crowds took to the streets in Milwaukee on a Sunday night to protest

Speaker:

the shooting death of an armed man by a police officer hours earlier.

Speaker:

So, this was obviously a black man I think, shot by police officers, so,

Speaker:

let's just play, actually, I've gotta, because I got bounced out of there,

Speaker:

I've gotta put that back up, play this clip, and, here we go, play this.

Speaker:

Hey, white!

Speaker:

There's no white person!

Speaker:

Right here!

Speaker:

Hey, white, get that ass!

Speaker:

Run, nigga!

Speaker:

Burn that bitch up!

Speaker:

Hey!

Speaker:

Hey, they beatin up every white person!

Speaker:

They jumpin at every white person!

Speaker:

Man, no white person come down on Charmin!

Speaker:

Right here!

Speaker:

He white!

Speaker:

BBC!

Speaker:

Bitch!

Speaker:

A crowd of rioters looking for white people to beat up, Joe.

Speaker:

But if they don't have institutional power, it's not a racist act.

Speaker:

does Bob have institutional power?

Speaker:

Certainly has power.

Speaker:

Yeah, well, the definition these people are using is, is institutional power.

Speaker:

And if you're just going to talk about power of any sort, it gets

Speaker:

very hazy as to, as to power.

Speaker:

It's, it really complicates the issue.

Speaker:

Anyway, just for some, some light relief in the middle of this, from

Speaker:

the shovel, Matilda's captain, Sam Kerr, has been honoured for her unique

Speaker:

contribution to Australian culture after she got shitfaced, chucked up in a cab,

Speaker:

disputed the fair, and then called an English cop a stupid white bastard.

Speaker:

Nothing exemplifies the Australian spirit better than getting munted and then

Speaker:

picking a fight with law enforcement.

Speaker:

It's what this country was built on, a spokesman for Australian

Speaker:

of the Year Awards said.

Speaker:

People do need to take a bit of a step back on this one at some point

Speaker:

and go, it's pretty poor behaviour.

Speaker:

To get shitfaced and throw up in a cab, and, and then start arguing with

Speaker:

people, like You see a lot of comments by ex taxi drivers saying what a pain

Speaker:

in the ass it is when it happens, it disrupts their income for the trip,

Speaker:

it's impossible to get the smell out fully, and a multi million dollar

Speaker:

soccer player should be effusively apologetic, and People are wanting to

Speaker:

stand up for her in this situation.

Speaker:

Kind of, just, remember, that's actually what happened.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

When you, So, so, a, a privileged person who's earning millions of

Speaker:

dollars has ruined the evening's takings of a working person.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

yeah, take, take colourist skin out of it.

Speaker:

Let's, let's stop being racist and talk about colours.

Speaker:

Let's just talk about these people.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Really shitty behaviour.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

bear all that in mind.

Speaker:

so Michael Bradley writes for, he's from Markey Lawyers, he writes a lot

Speaker:

in Crikey, and um, he says that, he runs the legal argument that, It's

Speaker:

not racism, let me just find the relevant part here, He says, let's get

Speaker:

directly to the heart of the matter.

Speaker:

It's no defence to a charge of racial vilification to point to the literal

Speaker:

truth of the racist words you've said.

Speaker:

Use brown or yellow as a personal descriptor, and yep, that's racist.

Speaker:

So does the same apply to white?

Speaker:

As one conservative commentator insisted, if you're okay with what Kerr said, you

Speaker:

need to genuinely be okay with a white guy calling someone a stupid black bastard.

Speaker:

And you might be, but you need to be consistent.

Speaker:

So, conservative commentator says, if you're okay with what Kerr said, then you

Speaker:

should be okay with somebody, a white guy calling someone a stupid black bastard.

Speaker:

And, and the writer, Michael Bradley says, Well, white man, no you don't.

Speaker:

There's legal precedent for why you're talking about two unrelated

Speaker:

things which only reflects the simple truth that really gets your goat.

Speaker:

Reverse racism is not a thing.

Speaker:

and then he talks about, this case of, A Samantha Power visiting her partner

Speaker:

in a prison, and when she was refused entry, allegedly expressed her unhappiness

Speaker:

by calling a police officer, a prison officer, a fucking white piece of shit.

Speaker:

And the officer claimed he'd been racially vilified, and that was rejected

Speaker:

by the Federal Magistrates Court.

Speaker:

Ian Bradley says, that's similar to the UK offence.

Speaker:

It was essential to the charge that powers abuse of the officer

Speaker:

had been done because of his race, colour or national or ethnic origin.

Speaker:

The judge ruled that being white, per se, is not descriptive of any particular

Speaker:

ethnic, national or racial group, nor is it of itself a term of abuse.

Speaker:

White people are the dominant people historically and

Speaker:

culturally within Australia.

Speaker:

They are not in any sense an oppressed group whose political

Speaker:

and civil rights are under threat.

Speaker:

And, so, Radley says, I don't know historically.

Speaker:

For a very, very small period.

Speaker:

Yeah, we're saying that the Aboriginals have been here for 40, 000 years.

Speaker:

White people have been dominant for 200 of them.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

And not even.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

Mm hmm.

Speaker:

Um, he goes here, The law of race hate was invented to combat actual

Speaker:

racism and its toxic social effects.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

White people in the UK, as in Australia, have never been

Speaker:

the victims of actual racism.

Speaker:

The privilege afforded by their skin remains intact.

Speaker:

And he says, That Kerr's undoubted hostility towards his police officer was

Speaker:

not because of his race, whatever his race may be, could be anything from French

Speaker:

Canadian to lower Slobovian, is surely beneath our dignity to have to explain.

Speaker:

Nevertheless, it is apparently a terribly difficult thing for many

Speaker:

white people to get their heads around.

Speaker:

As they melodramatically insist that all lives matter.

Speaker:

Like men's rights activists, they shout at the passing clouds of progress, unwilling

Speaker:

or more likely, unable to understand, that the loss of privilege that equality

Speaker:

requires is not a loss to mourn or fear.

Speaker:

And yet they fear.

Speaker:

And we get stupidites like this.

Speaker:

I hope the English court gives Constable Snowflake the justice he deserves.

Speaker:

Joe, just the tone of this, where he says, Well, white man, no you don't.

Speaker:

And he says Surely it's beneath our dignity to have to explain this and saying

Speaker:

things like, we get stupidites like this.

Speaker:

This looking down on people, Joe, because they're trying to start with

Speaker:

a basic understanding of, well, things should just apply equally, and why

Speaker:

wouldn't this apply equally racially?

Speaker:

And the dismissive, tone of it irks me and irked a lot of commentators.

Speaker:

That, that sort of.

Speaker:

Let me tell you, stupid racist white man, what's really going on here.

Speaker:

Really condescending, I guess is the word I'm looking for.

Speaker:

So, So, I mean, so black is not a race anymore than white is not a race.

Speaker:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

It is not a race either.

Speaker:

But, yeah.

Speaker:

I mean, the fact that she needed to point out skin colour, you

Speaker:

know, had she gone for gender?

Speaker:

Would that be a sexist remark, you stupid man?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

You know, it's all so trivial.

Speaker:

Like, at the end of the day, it's, it doesn't deserve any extra penalty

Speaker:

in my mind because it's so trivial.

Speaker:

Who cares?

Speaker:

But if you're just looking at definitions But in the UK it is,

Speaker:

it is, worthy of special penalties.

Speaker:

Right, yes.

Speaker:

Because they are cracking down on any form of offence.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

And, you know, if you're wanting to stamp out Racism against black

Speaker:

and brown people, and yellow people, and whatever colour people.

Speaker:

Then, you're doing a disservice to the cause if you start nitpicking

Speaker:

when it turns out the other way.

Speaker:

It's, it's, it, it reduces the cause.

Speaker:

I think just saying, look, you can't comment on somebody's

Speaker:

colour of their skin.

Speaker:

You can't comment on, what's between their legs.

Speaker:

You know, those are just off the table, as far as insults are concerned.

Speaker:

You can call them other things, but And you know, what we should

Speaker:

be saying is, that's really poor form, in terms of social cohesion.

Speaker:

You know, in most cases, completely doesn't warrant some

Speaker:

sort of penalty of any sort.

Speaker:

But we should all be turning our nose up at it and going, that's really poor form.

Speaker:

Like, that's, that's not good.

Speaker:

And, and Aye.

Speaker:

I know someone who gets upset whenever the terms idiot or moron or retard are used.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Retard is common, but idiot or moron, because they have

Speaker:

historically laden prejudices.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

and she gets very offended every time.

Speaker:

Well, it used to be, Joe, it was an insult to call somebody spastic at one stage.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

And then, you know, people suffering from various Um, disabilities would go,

Speaker:

hang on a minute, we don't want that, that's actually really offensive to use

Speaker:

that term, because that's me, and so, and, and you know, we, we as a society,

Speaker:

if we hear that, should be going, come on, that's not right, cut that out, we

Speaker:

don't want to hear that, but actually, you know, charging somebody with some

Speaker:

extra penalty as a result of it, I don't think so, but, I'll move on.

Speaker:

So, in Crikey.

Speaker:

By the way, dear listener, there's a special on Crikey

Speaker:

subscriptions, so look into that.

Speaker:

Contact me if you want to know what the code is, if you're

Speaker:

interested in a Crikey subscription.

Speaker:

but they have a great comments section down below.

Speaker:

So this particular article had like 165 comments underneath and one of the top

Speaker:

ones was, was by this guy Joe F who wrote, referring to Michael Bradley's article.

Speaker:

If I ever have to explain why my fellow progressives sometimes annoy me, I might

Speaker:

just provide this article as evidence.

Speaker:

There's always nuance.

Speaker:

My students of Indian heritage were chatting with me the other day about

Speaker:

how racist their parents are towards those with darker complexions.

Speaker:

They think it's funny that the dominant attitude is that you

Speaker:

have to be white to be racist.

Speaker:

Maybe this article was meant to be sarcasm.

Speaker:

That's a good point.

Speaker:

Indians, racist towards other Indians.

Speaker:

Oh, the caste system is awful in India.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

but, and this just seemed to be darker complexion.

Speaker:

It's not even related to caste.

Speaker:

So, is it racism?

Speaker:

Because they're probably of the same, you know, but race is a social construct.

Speaker:

It's so annoyingly, difficult.

Speaker:

Another guy wrote here.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

And this sort of nauseating, smug, do as we lecture you not as we show you

Speaker:

hypocrisy from society's rich, privileged, tertiary educated, white knowledge class

Speaker:

is the key reason societies not rich, not privileged, not tertiary educated, white

Speaker:

working and underclasses vote for the destructive impostors like Donald Trump.

Speaker:

Hell, rub my face in too much of this patronising double standard junk

Speaker:

and I might vote for Trump just to wipe the condescending hypocritical

Speaker:

smirk off this odious overpaid little ambulance chaser's gurning dial.

Speaker:

So, colourful language, Joe, but I get the point about, the smug, condescending

Speaker:

It's the basket of deplorables.

Speaker:

It is.

Speaker:

It is the basket of deplorables, yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

No, further on, I think the same guy responding after

Speaker:

somebody then responded to him.

Speaker:

He goes, But I'm a white, mostly straight, middle aged man, and Sam is a

Speaker:

female lesbian of some Indian heritage.

Speaker:

So I have patriarchal institutional power and she's an oppressed minority.

Speaker:

So she gets a free pass from Mike for what is, whatever way you cut it, lousy

Speaker:

behaviour with a racially abusive element.

Speaker:

Let's put a statue up to it.

Speaker:

Can you not grasp why people like me have no faith in privileged progressives,

Speaker:

people like Bradley, and the elite civic systems, which are, admirably, and

Speaker:

rightly supposed to be progressive too, and are flailing around for political

Speaker:

alternatives that don't rub our faces in partisan driven double standards.

Speaker:

and, yeah.

Speaker:

Oh, and there was another argument that went running

Speaker:

through this comments section.

Speaker:

people were referring to the dictionary definition, which was basically exhibiting

Speaker:

prejudice against another person or group because of their Based on their skills?

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Um, and these people were saying, Well, you just You know, the

Speaker:

dictionary definition doesn't matter.

Speaker:

It is the legal definition that matters.

Speaker:

It is what groups like the Human Rights Commission use.

Speaker:

You're just using an unsophisticated, amateurish understanding of

Speaker:

racism, and that's not what it is.

Speaker:

And this person's saying, well, a dictionary is describing what

Speaker:

the understood use of a term is.

Speaker:

It's not It's, it's descriptive, it's not prescriptive, it's not telling

Speaker:

people what racism should mean.

Speaker:

It's saying what people understand racism to be, and and these people

Speaker:

are just being dismissed in these comments as just dumb hicks for

Speaker:

relying on a dictionary definition.

Speaker:

And it just gets back to my original point at the beginning of the spiel, which

Speaker:

is, People have a simple understanding of what racism is, basic prejudice

Speaker:

based on skin colour, and in those additional requirements of institutional

Speaker:

power are handy if you're wanting to impose penalties on people because

Speaker:

you really want something substantive if you're going to impose a penalty.

Speaker:

And I think what's happening is people in the business of of arguing against racism.

Speaker:

They really concentrate a lot on unintended racism that permeates through

Speaker:

systemic power that we don't even see.

Speaker:

And I get that, you know, you would want to emphasize that.

Speaker:

You shouldn't need it.

Speaker:

Actually, I've got a summation here and then once I finish

Speaker:

this, I'll go on to the comments.

Speaker:

So here's, here's my summation.

Speaker:

Discriminating against people based on an inherent characteristic is unfair.

Speaker:

Racist acts can be systemic or or can be individual.

Speaker:

Doing it systemically or ad hoc, both are unfair.

Speaker:

The racist may be powerful or not.

Speaker:

In either case, the act is racism.

Speaker:

Defining racism as needing a power component is useful when defining

Speaker:

aggravating circumstances where you need to find serious conduct,

Speaker:

not just trivial, in order to justify a greater legal penalty.

Speaker:

It might also be useful for the Human Rights Commission, which would

Speaker:

want to disregard trivial matters.

Speaker:

But that is different to everyday discourse about what constitutes

Speaker:

inappropriate behaviour.

Speaker:

Why would you want to give a free pass to some racist behaviour if

Speaker:

you are trying to discourage it?

Speaker:

By all means, highlight systemic covert racism and highlight power imbalances,

Speaker:

but don't insert them as necessary elements in a broader, non legal context.

Speaker:

Elites are lecturing to people that Kerr's racism is not so

Speaker:

bad because of technicalities.

Speaker:

People might excuse it because of triviality, but they won't accept

Speaker:

the technicalities that appear to a.

Speaker:

breach the principle that the law should apply equally to everyone, and b.

Speaker:

ascribe institutional power and privilege to working class white people

Speaker:

who correctly see themselves as not enjoying any such privileges, and c.

Speaker:

ignore evidence that some members of minority groups enjoy enormous

Speaker:

privilege in excess of the so called majority privilege class.

Speaker:

There you go.

Speaker:

There's a rant, right?

Speaker:

What's in the chat room?

Speaker:

Joe let's see what lies there.

Speaker:

Good evening.

Speaker:

Whatley says, conveniently refined to suit woke ideology.

Speaker:

Alison says, I presume she was affected by alcohol.

Speaker:

Is, didn't she throw up in the taxi?

Speaker:

So whatever she said.

Speaker:

So the cop was drunk talk anyway.

Speaker:

Yes, Ian Whatley says Redhead's a fair game for mockery, for some unknown reason.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

The reason is, Whatley, is because gingers have no soul.

Speaker:

And therefore can't be insulted.

Speaker:

Have no soul?

Speaker:

Where does that come from?

Speaker:

Have no soul.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Do you not know this?

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Rangers have got no soul.

Speaker:

Oh, there we go.

Speaker:

Are you a redhead, Wattley, by any chance?

Speaker:

You're often quite angry.

Speaker:

You're angry enough, Wattley, to be a redhead.

Speaker:

Might explain something.

Speaker:

I'm a ginger.

Speaker:

I'm just bald, but True.

Speaker:

Yeah, you are that sort of gingery colour, yeah.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

As Tim Mitchin says, only a ginger can call another ginger ginger.

Speaker:

Did he say that?

Speaker:

Have you not heard his song Prejudice?

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

Oh, okay.

Speaker:

So, he had a song comparing things that went together, and one of the lines

Speaker:

he had written with an Australian view of a certain word that begins with the

Speaker:

letter N, and said he hadn't realised the strength of feeling it engendered

Speaker:

in America, and was called out on it.

Speaker:

And so he went off and wrote this song called Prejudice.

Speaker:

And I think you need to go and listen to the song.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Prejudice by Tim Tim Minchin.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

By the way, Anthony Mundine, he didn't think it was, racism when

Speaker:

Ezra Mann was called a monkey.

Speaker:

And he said that, I mean, it ain't racism when two brothers are brown or

Speaker:

blackfellas, you can slur each other.

Speaker:

You can call them a Black C or a this and a that.

Speaker:

That's what they are.

Speaker:

It's like African American and another African American

Speaker:

calling each other the N word.

Speaker:

And he says, I think they ought to toughen up.

Speaker:

It's not racism.

Speaker:

Ah, there we go.

Speaker:

What else have we got here?

Speaker:

Alright, that's the racism and our sporting stars providing

Speaker:

some food for thought there.

Speaker:

You 8.

Speaker:

45, Joe.

Speaker:

15 minutes left.

Speaker:

let's do, there's been an ASEAN conference.

Speaker:

The Malaysian PM talking about China.

Speaker:

he despaired at the rising tide of China phobia.

Speaker:

And, he said, the international community was eager to see a return to

Speaker:

friendlier ties between the US and China.

Speaker:

I sense that some countries just cannot accept the fact that you

Speaker:

have another superpower emerging.

Speaker:

I don't have that problem.

Speaker:

He says force is being used by the United States in their foreign

Speaker:

policy more than any other country for the right and wrong reasons.

Speaker:

And most often, in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, the

Speaker:

consensus is for the wrong reasons.

Speaker:

And,

Speaker:

that was him.

Speaker:

Let me just see.

Speaker:

Ah, Keating's had a go at Penny Wong again about foreign relations.

Speaker:

I think, Joe, let's talk about nuclear for the last 15 minutes.

Speaker:

So, ah, is Di Straits in the chat room?

Speaker:

Because he's always been on about these small nuclear reactors.

Speaker:

Oh, SMRs, yes.

Speaker:

Yeah, that don't exist.

Speaker:

And so, so Dutton was, has been criticised that in the Dunkley by

Speaker:

election the Liberals had no policy, and he's basically, he and his, you know,

Speaker:

shadow energy minister have announced that the Liberals are all in on, on

Speaker:

nuclear power, both small and large, and in saying that, Australia could have

Speaker:

nuclear power operating within ten years.

Speaker:

Basically they want to build it on the same site as the coal fired plant.

Speaker:

Yes, yes, and every expert put out by, by any media organisation is just

Speaker:

calling BS on the idea and saying that we have zero experience when it

Speaker:

comes to operating nuclear facilities.

Speaker:

Even if you looked at countries that do it all the time, they couldn't get a nuclear

Speaker:

reactor up and running in 10 years.

Speaker:

And, and we'd be starting from scratch.

Speaker:

We've got state governments who are against it.

Speaker:

And so just the, we've got no regulations to deal with it.

Speaker:

They would all have to be drafted up.

Speaker:

And no company is going to stump up the investment for this.

Speaker:

Let's just say Dutton got in at the next election because they'd be thinking, well,

Speaker:

in three years time, Dutton could be gone.

Speaker:

A Labor government comes in and cancels the whole project.

Speaker:

So no nuclear finance group operator would enter this with any certainty.

Speaker:

that the project will continue, through successive different governments.

Speaker:

It's complete pie in the sky.

Speaker:

Add to that, it's incredibly expensive and, it just makes no sense at any level

Speaker:

whatsoever, except if you're wanting to keep fossil fuels going as long as

Speaker:

possible, because you would be arguing we don't have to do anything Because

Speaker:

we'll just wait until all this great nuclear comes on board in 10 years.

Speaker:

And the other option would be, the sort of, the big end of town gets

Speaker:

to run these nuclear facilities and presumably enjoy government subsidies

Speaker:

to run them and exercise power.

Speaker:

One of the things about having all this rooftop solar is it's taking power

Speaker:

generation out of centralised businesses And distributing the power so that

Speaker:

business has less, political power than it did previously, because, every mum

Speaker:

and dad has a sort of a stake in it.

Speaker:

So, Joe, any thoughts on, on the just pathetic nature of

Speaker:

Peter Dutton and this proposal?

Speaker:

it's, it's obvious that, he's been Advised by the fossil fuel industry.

Speaker:

It's the only reason, that he could be putting this forward.

Speaker:

as far as I know, the only reason you'd want to build nuclear reactors

Speaker:

is to enrich uranium for weapons.

Speaker:

in this day and age, you're, you know, it was a great technology back in the 1960s.

Speaker:

we have new technologies that are better.

Speaker:

They're talking about, the UK, which is nowhere near as blessed as us, are having

Speaker:

problems getting nuclear on stream.

Speaker:

and the long term is going to be renewables, pumped hydro, and peaking gas.

Speaker:

so we will be using gas for, the foreseeable future, but only

Speaker:

as a backup in the rare cases where we don't have enough.

Speaker:

Wind and sun, and stored energy in terms of pumped hydro and whatever

Speaker:

battery technologies come along.

Speaker:

Hmm, you know, it might be a completely different scenario in other countries,

Speaker:

but for Australia with our enormous landmass, our plentiful sun and wind, it

Speaker:

makes absolutely no sense economically for us to go down this pathway.

Speaker:

And, you know, it's again pandering to that sort of outer regional

Speaker:

electorate, non university educated, culture war sort of argument.

Speaker:

But the Liberals need to win back the Teal seats that, They've

Speaker:

lost and they're not going to do it with a nuclear power policy.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

They're just going to be in the wilderness forever if they keep doing this.

Speaker:

so I think they just You know, maybe they're hoping to get the

Speaker:

coal mining seats with a dream of that they're going to set up nuclear

Speaker:

power instead and these people are going to get employment and that.

Speaker:

I think you'd be much better off with a what other industry can we

Speaker:

build up for the miners to move into?

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

and preferably out in remote areas so that, because a lot of these towns are

Speaker:

going mining is our lifeblood and if the miners move away, what do we do?

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yeah, but, you know, there's also a lot of these towns are getting gentrified as

Speaker:

well with people sort of tree huggers sort of moving out of Sydney and other areas

Speaker:

into there, and, you know, how many people are actually employed in these mines

Speaker:

sometimes is another question, so Well, the WA mines are more and more automated.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

You know, all the trucks are run automatically from

Speaker:

a control centre in Perth.

Speaker:

And where you've got camps, fly in, fly out workers, staying at

Speaker:

campsites, you know, not a lot of action might happen in a lot of

Speaker:

communities as a result of the mine, so.

Speaker:

Yeah, insanely stupid and, that's the best they can do.

Speaker:

The calibre of thinking in the Liberal Party is just appalling.

Speaker:

They're really just moving, they're just trying to move into the Nationals

Speaker:

territory, really, aren't they?

Speaker:

They're sort of geographically, heading into that sort of territory,

Speaker:

and just leaving the cities to the Labor and, and the Greens.

Speaker:

I was going to say, do the farmers even want nuclear?

Speaker:

No, I wouldn't think they would.

Speaker:

Like, I was, when I was in Japan, my wife and I were walking down the street

Speaker:

and all of a sudden there was this crowd of people and they were looking at this

Speaker:

department store window and everyone was just stopped looking at it and we

Speaker:

couldn't work out what was going on.

Speaker:

And, and then, like the Japanese are always very still and very, well, they're

Speaker:

just always polite and Undemonstrative.

Speaker:

And it was kind of like everyone was kind of silent and then

Speaker:

they all just disappeared.

Speaker:

And we just sort of tried to grab somebody and said, what was all that about?

Speaker:

And it turned out it was a minute's silence marking the, the disaster of,

Speaker:

of the most recent, nuclear, you know, where that tsunami had caused the damage

Speaker:

to the nuclear plant and, and all that.

Speaker:

So they were sort of commemorating it.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I think that was it.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It was happening while we were in Japan at the time, so, yeah.

Speaker:

Crazy.

Speaker:

But again, there's been a knee jerk response to shut down nuclear power

Speaker:

stations that are effective and are running, which I think, you know,

Speaker:

Germany has shut down a whole bunch of nuclear power stations and had

Speaker:

to turn back on coal generation.

Speaker:

Hmm.

Speaker:

So, so that's a bad thing.

Speaker:

You know, shutting down existing nuclear reactors isn't

Speaker:

necessarily the best outcome.

Speaker:

But certainly building new ones is, is ridiculous.

Speaker:

and Fukushima just goes to show that the amount of devastation, the amount

Speaker:

of damage to the area and the impact that that has had If that had been a

Speaker:

coal fired power station, the, the, radioactive tailings, the poisonous ash

Speaker:

would've been spread across a wide area.

Speaker:

Mm-Hmm.

Speaker:

So, it, it's not been great.

Speaker:

But realistically, in terms of the environmental damage, the

Speaker:

disaster, given the size of that accident, it's been incredibly low.

Speaker:

Mm-Hmm, , so the impact has been negligible.

Speaker:

they are relatively safe technology.

Speaker:

So it's not nuclear is bad, nuclear is the devil, it's just we have better

Speaker:

alternatives and why are we going down this antiquated technology path?

Speaker:

Yeah, yep.

Speaker:

Right, so we've nearly come up to an hour.

Speaker:

I could go on to other things but, I think I might make this a, a briefer one.

Speaker:

let me see.

Speaker:

okay.

Speaker:

Yes, he is a redhead, apparently.

Speaker:

He is, he's a ragger.

Speaker:

There we go, that explains a lot, so, yeah.

Speaker:

and he also says Nationals don't listen to farmers, just the corporations.

Speaker:

Yeah, I think that's true.

Speaker:

Right, dear listener, don't know what happened to Scott.

Speaker:

Hopefully he's okay, maybe he's just come down with a bit of

Speaker:

a bug or something like that.

Speaker:

So, we'll see him next week, I would assume.

Speaker:

wish me well as I undergo some more wonderful anesthetic tomorrow

Speaker:

morning and, I'll be hobbling around with a stocking on my leg.

Speaker:

But, yeah, see how that goes.

Speaker:

Thanks for tuning in.

Speaker:

We'll talk to you next week.

Speaker:

Bye for now.

Speaker:

And it's a good night for him.

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube