One of the more difficult areas of growth in a stepfamily involves getting to a place where you become able to separate the hurt from the person who hurt you.

In other words? When emotions are high, and perceptions of betrayal, anger, sadness, grief, and loss are present, it can be really hard to see the human being underneath the pain you feel.

But the human is there. And seeing the human for the human is such a powerful and liberating place to work from.

This is one of the best interviews we’ve ever had on the show, for so many reasons that align with the vision and mission of Stepqueen.

In this incredible episode with special guest Jessica Frew, we discuss:

• Her lived experience as a divorced biological mother & remarried stepmom, with one “easy” coparenting dynamic, and one “extremely high conflict” coparenting dynamic.
• The journey of marrying a man who later came out as gay
• The experience of living through infidelity “even though” her husband was gay
• Why we grieve the end of a relationship, even when we know it is the best (and only) decision
• How Jessica and her second husband have created a powerful relationship with Jessica’s ex-husband, and have become an inspiration for blended families everywhere!
• The secret to coparenting with someone who is extremely high-conflict

And so, so much more!

To follow along with Jessica & her incredible stepfamily dynamic, catch her over on Instagram @husband_in_law

To snag her free cards for blended families, head to https://www.theboldlogic.com/freecards

-

Book a free 30 minute consultation and let us help you get your life back https://calendly.com/foreveraftercoaching-newclients/consult?month=2024-01

Or try our 7 Day Stepfamily Stress Detox guaranteed to reduce stepfamily stress by at least 20% https://brittanylynch.podia.com/stepfamily-stress-detox

JESSICA:

And then about a year later, he was in counseling and the counselors like these

JESSICA:

things are an issue that you're talking about, but the real issue is your gay.

BRITTANY:

Where would you take your life if you knew you could not fail?

BRITTANY:

I get it as a step mom, mom and entrepreneur, sometimes it can feel like what

BRITTANY:

everyone else expects of you versus what you dream about for yourself are on opposite ends

BRITTANY:

of the spectrum. As a woman, you're taught from a very young age what society thinks

BRITTANY:

your worth based on how you look, how you behave and how much money you're allowed to

BRITTANY:

bring in. But I'm here to show you that you can be the woman who has it all and not just

BRITTANY:

on the outside. I'm Brittany Lynch and you are the queen of your castle.

BRITTANY:

Hello, hello, hello, welcome to another episode of The Queen of Your Castle podcast,

BRITTANY:

I am your host, Brittany Lynch, coming at you with special guest Jessica Frew.

BRITTANY:

Jessica Frew is a wife, ex-wife, mom, stepmom and a bold action taker.

BRITTANY:

She has a successful podcast called Husband in Law that she records with her husband,

BRITTANY:

Matt, and her ex husband, Steve.

BRITTANY:

Together, they're sharing their stories of love, marriage, coming out, divorce,

BRITTANY:

remarriage and co parenting to help others know that they are not alone.

BRITTANY:

They also own the bold logic.

BRITTANY:

And the bold logic is a company devoted to helping people go from living in an I should

BRITTANY:

mindset, a.k.a.

BRITTANY:

shitting all over yourself good mindset to taking bold action toward keeping and

BRITTANY:

reclaiming their sense of self.

BRITTANY:

Jessica is a firm believer that by knowing and understanding what it is you really want

BRITTANY:

in life, you can boldly create a life you love, no matter what your circumstances.

BRITTANY:

So obsessed with this, so important, so in alignment with our audience and what I

BRITTANY:

believe in and what Seth Godin believes in.

BRITTANY:

And I'm so happy to have you on the show, Jessica.

BRITTANY:

Thank you so much for being here with us.

JESSICA:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

BRITTANY:

Yeah, man, we've been talking about this for a hot minute.

BRITTANY:

And finally, finally, we're in the flesh in the virtual flesh because, yeah, we did it.

BRITTANY:

We did it. It feels great.

BRITTANY:

Thank you for being here. This incredible intro.

BRITTANY:

We love that. But.

BRITTANY:

Let's hear it right, let's hear right from your mouth, who is Jessica through what is

BRITTANY:

this very fascinating, very unique, very special story that you and your family have.

JESSICA:

Yeah, so currently my family is made up of myself, my husband, I have two stepkids who

JESSICA:

are 14 and 12.

JESSICA:

She's almost 13.

JESSICA:

That's crazy. And then I have a daughter from my first marriage and she's 11.

JESSICA:

Her name is Penny. And then my ex-husband is very much still a part of our family.

JESSICA:

He comes over for holidays, birthdays, Sunday dinner, like any time we can get him.

JESSICA:

He comes and hangs out by the pool and he actually works for my husband now.

JESSICA:

So my husband owns his own business and he recently hired Steven to come work for him.

JESSICA:

So, I mean, that's kind of our family dynamic.

JESSICA:

He does not live with us.

JESSICA:

There's nothing weird going on.

JESSICA:

But he is a very important part of our family.

BRITTANY:

Amy. For someone who doesn't know you or husband in law, I'm going to ask you to take

BRITTANY:

us away back to your first marriage, OK?

BRITTANY:

And explain this really in my ear from my point of view, really cool story.

BRITTANY:

But I'm sure from your point of view took a lot of healing to get to the point where you

BRITTANY:

could say it's a cool story.

BRITTANY:

So take us back in time.

BRITTANY:

Once upon a time, girl meets boy a fall in love then.

JESSICA:

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

JESSICA:

So and Steve and I, I mean, that is kind of how it happened.

JESSICA:

We met on a Friday night.

JESSICA:

We went out on Saturday night and we were together everyday.

JESSICA:

We could be together until we got married and we had like that kind of idyllic first

JESSICA:

year of marriage, which a lot of people don't get.

JESSICA:

And we were very happy together.

JESSICA:

Now, that being said, about six months into our marriage, I found a whole bunch of gay

JESSICA:

porn on our computer, like I got onto the computer to do something.

JESSICA:

And all of this gay porn just starts popping up and I'm like, oh, my gosh, my husband is

JESSICA:

gay. Like, straight guys don't typically look at gay porn.

JESSICA:

And I asked him about it.

JESSICA:

He's like, oh, no, no, I'm not gay.

JESSICA:

And he was in extreme denial at that point.

JESSICA:

And then about a year later, he was in counseling.

JESSICA:

And the counselor is like, yeah, these things are an issue that you're talking

JESSICA:

about. But the real issue is you're gay, like your your gay.

JESSICA:

And so at that point, Steve kind of came to terms with the fact he was gay and we decided

JESSICA:

to stay married because we were happy.

JESSICA:

And we we both were raised in a very conservative Christian religion where LDS

JESSICA:

Mormon, however you want to look at it, whatever term, you know.

JESSICA:

And so we stayed married.

JESSICA:

And even during this time, like we were trying to have a daughter, I, I don't get

JESSICA:

pregnant easily. I am not fertile.

JESSICA:

And so we are going through like fertility treatments and all that jazz.

JESSICA:

But we were happy and honestly gave Steve a safe place to kind of figure out who he was.

JESSICA:

And I was felt very much at peace with that.

JESSICA:

I knew there was a good possibility we could get divorced.

JESSICA:

Right. Like this is a very real side of him that he might want to experience someday and

JESSICA:

and understand on a deeper level.

JESSICA:

But we stayed married.

JESSICA:

We had our daughter Penny, about five years into our marriage.

JESSICA:

And then about just before she turned to a few months before that, Steve ended up having

JESSICA:

an affair. And I remember very clearly I had been out of town for the weekend.

JESSICA:

I came home.

JESSICA:

He was at the airport to pick Penny and I up.

JESSICA:

And it was like I knew as soon as I saw him, there was something different in in his

JESSICA:

appearance. It was so bizarre.

JESSICA:

And he didn't tell me for a little bit like I asked him.

JESSICA:

I was like, is something going on?

JESSICA:

What's happened? And then just like a week later, he came clean.

JESSICA:

Within a week, he's like, listen, I had an affair.

JESSICA:

I was with man. And now I don't know what to do.

JESSICA:

I feel so confused.

JESSICA:

And we tried to work it out for a good couple of months and it was just a mess like

JESSICA:

so hard and so, so painful for both of us.

JESSICA:

We got divorced shortly thereafter and then we actually dated again after we got

JESSICA:

divorced. He had moved in with this guy he had the affair with pretty quick after.

JESSICA:

And he's like, I'm just not happy.

JESSICA:

I can't leave you. I don't know what I'm doing.

JESSICA:

So we tried again and it was like six months of hell.

JESSICA:

And but we knew we had tried everything.

JESSICA:

We had done the best we could and we needed to figure out how our relationship was going

JESSICA:

to work now. And my biggest fear with getting a divorce was how does this look for

JESSICA:

my daughter? Like I know I'm going to be OK, but the only versions of divorce I've seen,

JESSICA:

my parents are divorced, but like friends and family and people in the church, they get

JESSICA:

divorced. We're very negative.

JESSICA:

And I just thought, I do not want that for my daughter.

JESSICA:

And so what do I need to do to give her something different?

JESSICA:

I wanted to be able to be at weddings and graduation and whatever it is she does in

JESSICA:

life together without her worrying about her parents being in the same room.

JESSICA:

And Steve and I talked about that a lot.

JESSICA:

And he was very much he was very humble.

JESSICA:

I think we both I would say we're very humble in that he he took ownership of his

JESSICA:

part of it. And he was just appreciative that I was willing to make things work and

JESSICA:

accept this new reality.

JESSICA:

That was not something we had either planned on.

JESSICA:

So, yeah.

JESSICA:

So that's that was my first marriage

BRITTANY:

I just thought about. I just like it only because this is really in my consciousness

BRITTANY:

right now. This is like something that's been that's been coming up a lot is the word

BRITTANY:

affair. And though the connotations of like infidelity and and what that means and the

BRITTANY:

the shame that our society has about that and the blame that.

BRITTANY:

They want to prescribe to somebody, and it's it's interesting to me that.

BRITTANY:

The you knew that his sexuality was not straight, right?

BRITTANY:

I have no doubt in my mind that you guys were like fantastic at being partners.

BRITTANY:

Right. We can be great partners in in lots of ways.

BRITTANY:

But it's interesting still that the way that.

BRITTANY:

Steve, being true to his sexuality is still essentially stigmatized as being an affair,

BRITTANY:

right? And so it was, at least from how I see it and how I understand it, was it was

BRITTANY:

maybe this really confusing time of like, how do I process this?

BRITTANY:

Like, I knew that his I knew that he was gay.

BRITTANY:

I knew that this was going to happen.

BRITTANY:

Right. But this is still from what I was led to believe about the world.

BRITTANY:

I grew up in the church. This is still an affair.

BRITTANY:

This trail. This is all of this.

BRITTANY:

And when you add all of that confusion onto maybe his first experience with a man, maybe

BRITTANY:

maybe all of this, I couldn't imagine what that would have been like to process and go

BRITTANY:

through together and go through a part and all of the feelings that came along with

BRITTANY:

that.

JESSICA:

And it was very interesting because, I mean, Steve and I, we were very close because we

JESSICA:

had let each other into our worlds.

JESSICA:

Right. Like he had let me fully into his world and who he was because he had shared

JESSICA:

the side of me that he had not shared with anybody, that he was scared to share with

JESSICA:

anybody because he wasn't sure if people were going to love him afterwards or if how

JESSICA:

they were going to react.

JESSICA:

And I was the first person he let in that still loved him.

JESSICA:

Right. And that that proved to him that he was still worthy and that he was still a good

JESSICA:

man. And that's what I always told him.

JESSICA:

I'm like, see, this doesn't change who you are.

JESSICA:

It just is another part of you that we get to, you know, explore and experience.

JESSICA:

And and people always ask me, well, it didn't hurt, it is bad, you know, because I'm

JESSICA:

sure it didn't hurt as bad because he's gay, like it was a man, not a woman.

JESSICA:

And I like it still hurts.

JESSICA:

But because I had kind of understood that this was a possibility, I also knew that this

JESSICA:

wasn't about me.

JESSICA:

It was a huge part of me that.

JESSICA:

Really understood and accepted that and made it easier for him to not carry as much shame,

JESSICA:

he still put a ton of shame on himself.

JESSICA:

But I did not. I tried my hardest to not add that onto him because I knew he was going

JESSICA:

through a lot. It was a big change for him, was a big change for me.

JESSICA:

And I wanted him to be happy.

JESSICA:

And I watched, you know, I mean, he he got to a point where he was suicidal and during

JESSICA:

all this, because he's coming out and he's so scared and, you know, his family is not

JESSICA:

sure what to think and all of these things.

JESSICA:

And I'm like, if he doesn't still have me and understand that, I will support him and

JESSICA:

love him as Penny's dad, as my friend, then who does he have at this point?

JESSICA:

Like, he needs to know that he has me.

JESSICA:

And so there was a part of me that was able to let go of a lot of things just because I

JESSICA:

knew how much he was hurting.

JESSICA:

While that didn't diminish how much I was hurting, I was still allowed to feel that.

JESSICA:

I still embrace that.

JESSICA:

And he was very sensitive to that as well.

JESSICA:

It was like we were given this little gift of a bubble to be able to see and understand

JESSICA:

each other and to and to feel that and to let that be.

JESSICA:

So it was an interesting and I think very unique process.

JESSICA:

We went through

BRITTANY:

Mom and I and I think that, you know, for various reasons, every single day people end

BRITTANY:

up getting divorced.

BRITTANY:

And and I I've never personally experienced a divorce, but I mean, I work in it every

BRITTANY:

single day. Yeah.

BRITTANY:

I wonder how much of that pain it was related to.

BRITTANY:

When you get married, you create a vision of how the rest of your life is going to go.

BRITTANY:

And and when that comes to an end, it's like you lose your identity, you lose.

BRITTANY:

I'm no longer Steve's wife, right.

BRITTANY:

We no longer have this life that we have planned together or that I've planned in my

BRITTANY:

mind. And so regardless of the reasons that lead up to.

BRITTANY:

The dissolution of a coupling.

BRITTANY:

There's so much stuff, yeah, to process and there's so many feelings to go through and

BRITTANY:

and what a gift that you are able now to share with the world to come at this from a

BRITTANY:

place of really being in a very unique, very painful situation.

BRITTANY:

That's not like when people say, well, like he was gay.

BRITTANY:

Right. Like that shouldn't it shouldn't hurt.

BRITTANY:

Right. It's not necessarily about that.

JESSICA:

No. And I always tell people I'm like, listen, you you are allotted that time to

JESSICA:

mourn what you thought you would have, just like you're saying, like you are rethinking

JESSICA:

your whole life, no matter why you got divorced.

JESSICA:

There's still this process of mourning what you thought you were going to live the life

JESSICA:

you thought you were going to have because you don't marry somebody thinking I'm going

JESSICA:

to be married to him for five years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever, and then we're

JESSICA:

going to be done. And so there's that part of it.

JESSICA:

And then I also tell people, but listen, you also have to let go of the idea of what you

JESSICA:

thought you would have to be able to see what you're being given.

JESSICA:

And that's really something that I was able to do and that Steve was able to do to

JESSICA:

realize we still had something that could work in a different way than we ever

JESSICA:

imagined. But maybe there was something good here.

JESSICA:

And the more we opened ourselves up to this idea that we could still be friends and get

JESSICA:

along and do Penny's birthdays together and all of these things, the more beautiful and

JESSICA:

easier it got because we still got to enjoy good parts of each other.

JESSICA:

So.

BRITTANY:

And I'm making an assumption here, but I wonder if those are the parts of each other

BRITTANY:

that brought you together as a couple in the first place, right.

BRITTANY:

Or you didn't really change as people, from what I understand, other than maybe going

BRITTANY:

through a lot more therapy.

BRITTANY:

Yes, you are in the end.

BRITTANY:

But but how amazing is it when we're able to separate the hurt from the person.

BRITTANY:

Right. And when we're able to remove ourselves and.

BRITTANY:

Heal and process and like, what an absolute gift for for everybody, including your

BRITTANY:

daughter and and your new husband.

BRITTANY:

Current husband.

JESSICA:

Yes, yes.

JESSICA:

And that really it was interesting when Steve and I were talking about our divorce

JESSICA:

and how we wanted to look and stuff like, well, what about your new husband?

JESSICA:

And I'm like, well, I'm going to need to marry somebody who can at least somewhat

JESSICA:

embrace our situation.

JESSICA:

Right? Like, yes, things will change and there will be new boundaries and all of that.

JESSICA:

Like that's part of new relationships.

JESSICA:

But I my goal in dating was to find somebody that was confident, secure enough and

JESSICA:

understanding enough to see the benefits of me still having a good relationship with my

JESSICA:

ex. And Matt very much did.

JESSICA:

And the awesome thing, too, was Steve and Matt had a mutual friend and they ended up

JESSICA:

going mountain biking together like a handful of times before Matt and I met.

JESSICA:

So they knew each other.

JESSICA:

And so and Steve actually introduced me to Matt when they were leaving to go mountain

JESSICA:

biking. One day they met in the parking lot at this apartment complex where I lived

JESSICA:

because the mutual friend lived there and he's like, hey, this is Matt Frew, my biking

JESSICA:

buddy, whatever. And it was like I knew I was going to marry this guy, which I always

JESSICA:

tell people they're nuts when they say that.

JESSICA:

But and I told Steve that like a week later I said, well, I'm going to marry Matt.

JESSICA:

And he's like, You've only met him not once.

JESSICA:

I'm like, I know, but and it was, you know, nine months later before we started dating

JESSICA:

and we actually ended up married.

JESSICA:

But I think that helped, too.

JESSICA:

That was nice that they already knew each other.

JESSICA:

But then, Matt, that was something that I fell in love with about Matt.

JESSICA:

We had a lot of other crap to deal with and a lot of other things that made our

JESSICA:

relationship hard. But that thing of him being OK with my relationship with my

JESSICA:

ex-husband and being open to getting uncomfortable sometimes to see how it felt

JESSICA:

and all those things is really I mean, that for me was like I'm years like, this is

JESSICA:

amazing and.

JESSICA:

And so I was very grateful that I've been able to marry somebody who was open to that,

JESSICA:

and the thing is, I always say if we didn't have this side of co parenting because we

JESSICA:

have two sides of co parenting where we have an easy relationship with Steve and it works.

JESSICA:

And not that there's not hard times, but in general it's easy and we have the extreme

JESSICA:

opposite on that side.

JESSICA:

And so I'm like, if we did not have one easy side, I don't think we would still be

JESSICA:

married. Like we could not have emotionally gotten through it, even though we love each

JESSICA:

other so much emotionally, I think it just would have done us it so that I think that's

JESSICA:

also why Matt is so understanding, because he sees and appreciates this side of things.

BRITTANY:

Right. I want to ask you, you know, before before we press record, we are kind of

BRITTANY:

chatting about this. And from my experience, from what I've observed and again, this is

BRITTANY:

just my own lens, how I observe the world.

BRITTANY:

But there tends to be kind of two camps of of stepmom's that I deal with.

BRITTANY:

And one of those camps is they have a hard time bonding with the kids.

BRITTANY:

And the other camp is that they have a really, really, really high conflict.

BRITTANY:

Co parenting relationship, and it tends to be that the people who are

BRITTANY:

falling into this trap, queen circles, typically tend to have a hard time bonding

BRITTANY:

with the kids. Right. We have really intense dynamics with the kids, and that's amazing.

BRITTANY:

And I will hold all of the space for that in the whole entire world.

BRITTANY:

But I don't have a whole lot of experience with high conflict co parenting because I am

BRITTANY:

so removed from the co parenting relationship like my husband and his wife's

BRITTANY:

co parenting relationship belongs to them.

BRITTANY:

I have nothing to do with it.

BRITTANY:

I have worked through all of my jealousies and my insecurities and stuff that used to

BRITTANY:

get me muddled up into the middle of it.

BRITTANY:

So I don't often engage in conversations about this high conflict dynamic and I know

BRITTANY:

that it happens. And I don't ever for a second want to pretend that it doesn't or

BRITTANY:

that all you have to do is ignore it or, you know, like that silly advice.

BRITTANY:

I could be the bigger person that that at the debt that's dealt with that I know that

BRITTANY:

it's so much deeper than that.

BRITTANY:

I've just never had to survive that.

BRITTANY:

I've never had to grow through that.

BRITTANY:

I've had to go through my own stuff, but I haven't had to grow through somebody else's

BRITTANY:

stuff per say.

BRITTANY:

So I don't want to make this, like, dramatic, but I'm also intrigued to hear

BRITTANY:

because you have such a wise and healed and beautiful perspective, I want to hear what

BRITTANY:

it's like compared to with somebody who is almost impossible to cope with and what

BRITTANY:

that's like for you.

BRITTANY:

And how you handle it in a way that doesn't eat you up from the inside.

JESSICA:

Because it will it will eat you up from the inside.

JESSICA:

And that's how it was in the beginning of our marriage, because not only like Matt,

JESSICA:

when we got married, he was struggling because it was like trauma, like it brought

JESSICA:

up a trauma trigger of, oh, my gosh, I'm married again.

JESSICA:

What the heck was I thinking because of the things that happened in his first marriage

JESSICA:

and that he dealt with it and processed it, but he had it.

JESSICA:

So he was dealing with that.

JESSICA:

And I'm trying to figure out what the heck just happened to the man I married.

JESSICA:

And then I'm I'm trying to show up in all the ways.

JESSICA:

Right. I'm trying to be the good stepmom.

JESSICA:

I'm trying to be the wife to be supportive and take care of the kids and do all these

JESSICA:

things, which I love doing.

JESSICA:

And I'm trying to have a good relationship with his ex-wife because I knew what it was

JESSICA:

like to have a good relationship with my ex.

JESSICA:

And I so wanted that to be able to have this amazing relationship with his ex wife, for

JESSICA:

him, for the kids, for me, for all of us.

JESSICA:

And I dove in like we I would call her when I was taking the kids to the pool and she

JESSICA:

would meet us there.

JESSICA:

I'd let her know what I was going to work out because we worked out the same gym we'd

JESSICA:

work out together. I took her out for her birthday for Mother's Day, like when I try to

JESSICA:

connect in real, genuine ways that that helped both of us.

JESSICA:

Right. And it got to the point where something didn't go right.

JESSICA:

And I didn't think of the big deal.

JESSICA:

And the next thing I know, she has, like, snapped and is yelling at me that calling me

JESSICA:

a bitch in front of the kids.

JESSICA:

I'm not there. This is all just to Matt and taking all of these things that are very

JESSICA:

personal to me and throwing them out there to try and put a wedge in between my husband

JESSICA:

and I. And I was like, oh my gosh, like what just happened?

JESSICA:

And and, you know, it's that mourning process again is I realized, OK.

JESSICA:

This is not going to be what I thought it was, and while that's OK, we can figure this

JESSICA:

out. I need some time to mourn this relationship.

JESSICA:

I thought I was going to be able to have with his ex and relationship.

JESSICA:

I thought I was going to be able to have with his kids because because of this,

JESSICA:

because of how she's treating me, how she talks about me, I can't I can't have the same

JESSICA:

relationship with the kids.

JESSICA:

They feed on that.

JESSICA:

She feeds on that.

JESSICA:

And so there had to be a lot of boundaries that got put up then of figuring out how to

JESSICA:

protect all of us. And I'm not saying like boundaries are to keep her out.

JESSICA:

I think often when we hear boundaries, we're like, this is just for somebody away.

JESSICA:

We're trying to whatever. But it's it's really setting up expectations for how

JESSICA:

everybody can engage.

JESSICA:

OK, well, these are my boundaries.

JESSICA:

So we're going to stick with this so people know what to expect.

JESSICA:

And ultimately the kids know what to expect.

JESSICA:

They know how things are going to go down.

JESSICA:

They know well, mom and my my mom and dad aren't going to engage together.

JESSICA:

They're going to this is hell pick up and drop offs are going to go just because not

JESSICA:

doing this, this and this anymore, because we've seen how that goes when she does.

JESSICA:

And it's things like making them lunches for school and stuff like that that I can't do.

JESSICA:

And while it looks like I'm just a jerk, it's because she's showing up at the school

JESSICA:

to check their lunches. If I make them every day to see what I'm putting in them and I'm

JESSICA:

like, this isn't healthy for them, this isn't healthy for me.

JESSICA:

So I did a lot of work and it took a lot of time for me to remember that, you know, I can

JESSICA:

keep putting myself out here.

JESSICA:

I can keep putting myself in this situation.

JESSICA:

I can keep trying to prove my worth to these people.

JESSICA:

But all I am doing is telling myself I'm not of worth.

JESSICA:

And ultimately, that's what it came down to, is I am losing who I am.

JESSICA:

And I can't do that because that doesn't serve anybody.

JESSICA:

And something I knew from being made to see, like if I'm going to stay in a marriage to a

JESSICA:

gay man and help and support him, I also have to keep who I am to be able to do that.

JESSICA:

So I've put in a lot of time of figuring that out and changing ultimately the story I

JESSICA:

tell myself about who I am and how I am a step mother.

BRITTANY:

Shameless plug for the step mom story.

BRITTANY:

Change your story. Change your life.

BRITTANY:

Yes, change your life.

BRITTANY:

And it's so true.

BRITTANY:

Like it's so cliche, but it's so true.

BRITTANY:

And that's what this story is all about.

BRITTANY:

Change your story and your life.

BRITTANY:

Yep. There's nothing I would argue nothing about anything really changed as far as the

BRITTANY:

high conflict went.

BRITTANY:

The only thing that changed was your story about the high conflict.

BRITTANY:

Am I correct in assuming that

JESSICA:

One hundred percent?

JESSICA:

Because I started telling myself, like I'd been telling myself what I need to show up.

JESSICA:

I need to do all of these things to prove myself.

JESSICA:

And then when I started changing that story of saying, listen, I don't have to I don't

JESSICA:

need to do this, Matt is capable.

JESSICA:

They have two parents who are capable.

JESSICA:

And if people outside of our relationship judge me for not doing those things, that's

JESSICA:

on them. Not on me, which is another thing.

JESSICA:

I live my life by somebody judging me.

JESSICA:

That's their issue, not mine.

JESSICA:

And so really, I was I started thinking, OK, if I'm staying in this marriage to this man

JESSICA:

who I love, I have to do this.

JESSICA:

And while it might be hard for him to understand in the beginning, well, why are

JESSICA:

you pulling back? He also saw that as I pulled back, it wasn't really pulling back.

JESSICA:

It was showing up for myself.

JESSICA:

Things got easier, right?

JESSICA:

Like, oh, she's not complaining about this thing anymore.

JESSICA:

My ex-wife isn't because Jessica's removed herself from the situation or.

JESSICA:

Oh, she's you know, she finds other things to complain about.

JESSICA:

But because we're refusing to engage now, it's it stops.

JESSICA:

And so, like, I'll still every like once a year get a text from her out of the blue

JESSICA:

because we do not talk.

JESSICA:

I'm I relate to you and not like there's no contact between us.

JESSICA:

I see her at games, at sporting events, whatever the kids are doing and I'll say hi,

JESSICA:

but that's it. But I'll get a text like once a year and they're usually pretty vicious and

JESSICA:

I show them to Matt and I delete them.

JESSICA:

I do not carry it.

JESSICA:

I do not go back and read it over and over.

JESSICA:

I change that narrative like this might be how she perceives me, but this is not who I

JESSICA:

am. I remember I was out for a run one day and we had worked past a lot of things.

JESSICA:

But I was still convinced that I was just a horrible stepmom, that these things were all

JESSICA:

my fault, that I like and not all of it.

JESSICA:

But I took on a lot of it and I'm sitting there running and I'm like, OK, I know how to

JESSICA:

deal with this. Like, I have to change this story.

JESSICA:

I'm telling myself, like, I have to change this.

JESSICA:

And so I really get into that of.

JESSICA:

What's true about this is it's true that I'm a bad stepmom.

JESSICA:

What are the signs pointing to the fact I'm a bad stepmom and I make sure I've made

JESSICA:

mistakes, but I learned from those I try to do better.

JESSICA:

And I'm like, what is proof of the opposite?

JESSICA:

That I'm doing OK, that things are good.

JESSICA:

And I'm like, I give these kids a safe place to live in.

JESSICA:

They they have food to eat, they have clothing, they have their own rooms that are

JESSICA:

done however they want.

JESSICA:

Like, what do we help do that we want them to feel like they have their space in our

JESSICA:

house. That's theirs every time they come home.

JESSICA:

And I'm giving them space to enjoy their dad to go have this free time.

JESSICA:

And I'm like, OK, I need to change what I'm telling myself, because ultimately I might

JESSICA:

not be a perfect stepmom and that doesn't matter.

JESSICA:

But I'm a good step mom and that has really made a difference.

JESSICA:

And every time I feel that old way of thinking coming in, I'm like, nope, nope,

JESSICA:

shut it down. Let's change how we're thinking about this.

JESSICA:

What is the truth in this situation?

JESSICA:

Are there things I can improve?

JESSICA:

But let's work on those. What do make me feel better about myself and let some of the

JESSICA:

things go of what I feel I should be doing that I should mindset.

JESSICA:

Right of. Well, I should be doing this.

JESSICA:

Yeah, but it doesn't work for us.

JESSICA:

So it's OK. I'm not.

BRITTANY:

Yeah. And I thank you for sharing that.

BRITTANY:

I was like super amazing, super insightful.

BRITTANY:

So thrilled that you just had all of those things.

BRITTANY:

I listener, I'm going to invite you to rewind the last like three minutes and listen

BRITTANY:

to that over and over, because Jessica just gave you the keys to life.

BRITTANY:

Like, actually everything you need to know about life is in the last three minutes of

BRITTANY:

this episode and you are welcome.

BRITTANY:

But specifically, the place that I want to go with this is, you know, it's it's it's

BRITTANY:

funny but not funny because there's no such thing as coincidences, but kind of the the

BRITTANY:

theme that's been coming up in the sub.

BRITTANY:

I'm sorry, right. Now, if you're not familiar with the sub, I'm sorry.

BRITTANY:

It's the group community coaching program that I facilitate.

BRITTANY:

And the theme that's been coming up this last week has been in self worth and self

BRITTANY:

love and these prescriptions that we assign to ourselves of what makes us good, bad,

BRITTANY:

right, wrong, valuable, not valuable, worthy, not worthy.

BRITTANY:

And I would warrant a gas that probably ninety nine percent of those really

BRITTANY:

unhelpful, really hurtful things that we tell ourselves.

BRITTANY:

I'll begin with this conversation that we have in our minds of I should get to that.

BRITTANY:

So let's go down that rabbit hole, shall we, Jessica?

BRITTANY:

Let's go down the should let's go down the shooting on all all over ourselves.

BRITTANY:

Rabbit hole.

JESSICA:

Yeah. I mean that is I one hundred percent.

JESSICA:

I agree with you that that is where this starts.

JESSICA:

That is where the laughs and we, we put on ourselves all of these things we should be

JESSICA:

doing instead of embracing the things we are genuinely good at and focusing on the things

JESSICA:

where we excel and realizing that, you know, this other person is awesome at this other

JESSICA:

thing that is so great.

JESSICA:

I'm so glad they're good at it because I'm not.

JESSICA:

Instead, we feel like, well, I should be better at this.

JESSICA:

I just had an example that popped into my head.

JESSICA:

I have a cousin. She has six babies like little guys.

JESSICA:

I swear they're they're probably ten and underwear under underwear, ten and under, but

JESSICA:

there's six of them. And her last one she just had and she's had to they've had to be

JESSICA:

in the nick you and she's had a hard time with all of them.

JESSICA:

And I sent her a gift after this last baby and she she got on the phone with me and

JESSICA:

she's like, oh, you're just so thoughtful.

JESSICA:

I should be better about this.

JESSICA:

I should be more thoughtful of other people.

JESSICA:

And then I'm like, hold it right there.

JESSICA:

You have six kids at home that you are mothering like.

JESSICA:

That's enough, you don't need to do anything more like this is where I'm at in my life, I

JESSICA:

have space to do this.

JESSICA:

I have mental capacity to do this.

JESSICA:

If you'd asked me two years ago, I wouldn't I didn't have the emotional space to be able

JESSICA:

to show up like this.

JESSICA:

But I do now. And I also have the financial space to do this right now.

JESSICA:

A couple of years ago, I might not have been able to either.

JESSICA:

And so we don't give ourselves grace in that.

JESSICA:

We just pile that on to the things that instead of recognizing, oh, it's so wonderful

JESSICA:

this person can do this right now, we flip it to, oh, I should be better about doing

JESSICA:

this thing. I also use like the example, I am not a mom that goes to the school.

JESSICA:

Like, I don't help in classrooms.

JESSICA:

I don't I don't love going on field trips.

JESSICA:

I will. But that's not my strength.

JESSICA:

It's not where I find joy.

JESSICA:

I like that my daughter goes to school and she gets to learn there and be herself and

JESSICA:

figure herself out.

JESSICA:

But I'm not going to I'm not going to feel bad about that.

JESSICA:

And I know there's so many moms that feel so guilty because they can't show up in the

JESSICA:

classroom. If that is your thing, embrace it.

JESSICA:

Go do it like.

JESSICA:

But if it's not, let it go.

JESSICA:

And so we have convinced ourselves that we should be all of these things, our culture,

JESSICA:

our family, our society, like whatever it is, it's influenced you.

JESSICA:

You hold on to these beliefs.

JESSICA:

And when we start letting go of those beliefs and embracing the things that truly

JESSICA:

bring us joy, that is when the magic happens.

JESSICA:

That is when we get to I call it being bold.

JESSICA:

That's when we get to be bold and embrace who we are.

JESSICA:

And I always say, you know, it's not it's not about being a better version of you.

JESSICA:

It's not about being the best version of you.

JESSICA:

It's about being you, because then that's when you're all of those things.

JESSICA:

But we have such a hard time hearing our own self speak, hearing what it is we really want

JESSICA:

because we're so caught up in the goods.

BRITTANY:

Insert Mike drop.

BRITTANY:

Where's the mike drop? I'm I'm clopping I was amazing.

BRITTANY:

I have nothing left to say.

BRITTANY:

All right, well, I can die now because I've heard everything in my life came by.

BRITTANY:

So nice not. You are truly inspiring and a ray of light and

BRITTANY:

spreading such important.

BRITTANY:

Healing and hope and transformation across this world and from the bottom of my heart, I

BRITTANY:

want to thank you because this is not.

BRITTANY:

This is not an easy place to get to.

BRITTANY:

To have this perspective, I'm getting misty right now, it's not an easy place to get to

BRITTANY:

to have this perspective.

BRITTANY:

It's not an easy place to get you to have this level of self-love and self worth.

BRITTANY:

Because. In my experience, this level of self-love and self worth usually is

BRITTANY:

only built up when you have been completely 100 percent broken down into a pile of

BRITTANY:

nothing. And what an absolute.

BRITTANY:

Gift that you are able to alkermes that pain.

BRITTANY:

To bring to heal other people, to bring them out of this place where they feel like these

BRITTANY:

are the darkest days ever.

BRITTANY:

And. Man, you're just you're incredible, you're amazing, and you're the work that

BRITTANY:

you're doing is so important and so needed and the message you're sharing is so

BRITTANY:

important and so needed. And I'm very grateful.

BRITTANY:

I'm very, very, very grateful to be sharing this with.

BRITTANY:

Whoever you are listening right now, so thank you.

JESSICA:

Well, thank you. I feel like that's that's the work we're doing right, is to take it

JESSICA:

gives it gives that pain more purpose.

JESSICA:

It gives where we were at more purpose to be able to help somebody who we know is going

JESSICA:

through something similar. And if we can help them not get to that fellow, we can help

JESSICA:

them see that there's hope and brightness and and love themselves enough to do the work

JESSICA:

before they hit that point.

JESSICA:

What a gift and what a blessing to to be able to share that.

BRITTANY:

And it's not about pretending that there's no pain.

BRITTANY:

Right. It's about pretending that these things are not wrong.

BRITTANY:

It's about allowing and choosing, but allowing and choosing.

BRITTANY:

Amazing. I don't even know I don't even.

BRITTANY:

How do you follow that like anybody have any idea?

BRITTANY:

Anyone I want

JESSICA:

Whenever I want, I feel like there's some podcast interviews you really connect with.

JESSICA:

And when I connect, like I feel like we connected, which I love, I love those moments

JESSICA:

and that's why I do this. But I feel like those things that we feel like the

JESSICA:

appreciation that we feel for the other people who are doing this work to help other

JESSICA:

people. That is what I want these women to feel that are listening to this.

JESSICA:

I want you, the listener, to understand that you are just as strong.

JESSICA:

You are just as powerful, like even in your pain, even in wherever you're at in this

JESSICA:

journey, you are still of worth.

JESSICA:

And to understand that, to see that and to see that, yes, this is work, but man, it is

JESSICA:

so worth the work and you are worth that work.

JESSICA:

You are needed, your voice is needed.

JESSICA:

What you are doing is enough.

JESSICA:

And you get to add on to that as you, as you deal with this emotion stuff, as you deal

JESSICA:

with the emotions and the physical and all of it.

JESSICA:

I feel like this is the first year I've been able to dive into the real I mean, I've

JESSICA:

always taken care of myself. I always work out like I love that part of it.

JESSICA:

It's very therapeutic for me.

JESSICA:

But this is the first year I've been able to like.

JESSICA:

Let my body relax and and it's probably been 15 years of my body holding so much of my

JESSICA:

emotions for me and I feel like, you know, that's that's the next phase for me.

JESSICA:

And we each get to go along these phases and whatever phase right.

JESSICA:

Is, OK, it's beautiful.

JESSICA:

It's real. And you embrace that and know that you are worthy at that at that state.

BRITTANY:

So far, so good.

BRITTANY:

So good. I wanted to before we wrap up here, you shared a really beautiful thing with me

BRITTANY:

on Instagram today.

BRITTANY:

And you can talk about that for a second because how cool is that?

JESSICA:

So we for years have always joked about the fact that there are not there's not a

JESSICA:

Hallmark section or not a greeting card section and Hallmark that speaks to X's

JESSICA:

parents, any of that and or to step moms or step dads.

JESSICA:

And I was like, you know, at this Mother's Day, let's put together a line of greeting

JESSICA:

cards that goes to this issue.

JESSICA:

And there are some that are super, I mean, sarcastic and whatever, and then there are

JESSICA:

some that are very tender and loving.

JESSICA:

And so, yeah, we put that out there just today in time for Mother's Day and Father's

JESSICA:

Day. But there's cards for all across the board.

JESSICA:

You could use them for any time of year.

JESSICA:

But really, just speaking to this, I mean, there's so many of us out there.

JESSICA:

Right, like this is.

BRITTANY:

There's so many of us out there, there's stuff out there,

JESSICA:

Yeah, it's just the story.

JESSICA:

And so I'm like, if we can speak to this some and and honestly, it's like we talk

JESSICA:

about with all marginalized groups.

JESSICA:

Right. That and I'm not saying I'm a marginalized group, but it's being a step

JESSICA:

mom. You can go that way like you can feel there's a similar aspect of that, but you

JESSICA:

don't see that it's not normal enough to be in the greeting card store yet.

JESSICA:

You know, it's not accepted enough.

JESSICA:

It's not understood to be there.

JESSICA:

And some like we can speak to this, we can sit down and there's some pretty there's some

JESSICA:

pretty funny ones on there and some, like I said, some that are very thoughtful.

JESSICA:

But they go across the board

BRITTANY:

Greeting cards for stepmom's that Momolu thing.

BRITTANY:

You can send this to your spouse and they can get you a card.

BRITTANY:

But you know what we're going to do for you.

BRITTANY:

Lessiter We're going to link those greeting cards up for you for free in the show.

BRITTANY:

And also, if you want to go ahead and take a peek and pretend to send a really sassy

BRITTANY:

greeting card to your spouse's ex.

BRITTANY:

There's a there's a button for that.

BRITTANY:

There is an option for that.

BRITTANY:

I am releasing myself from any liability of anything that might come from that.

BRITTANY:

So I do not recommend just do it in your head.

JESSICA:

Just don't send a card.

JESSICA:

But some write it out.

BRITTANY:

Some are nice though.

JESSICA:

It is so nice.

JESSICA:

Yeah. Yeah.

JESSICA:

And I do have a free workbook that goes back to that.

JESSICA:

Change your story, change your life thing too that you can pick up online as well just

JESSICA:

to start start that process of changing your mindset.

JESSICA:

I mean that sounds like you speak to that in your in the things you do as well.

JESSICA:

So that's awesome.

BRITTANY:

Mm. Yeah.

BRITTANY:

Jessica, if our listeners want to get in touch with you, follow along with you and

BRITTANY:

your Supergirl cool journey, listen to your Husband in Law podcast.

BRITTANY:

How can they find you? Where's the best place to find you?

BRITTANY:

Where do you hang out the most?

JESSICA:

Yeah, so I'm on Instagram, the most under husband in law.

JESSICA:

You can find us there.

JESSICA:

And then also our podcast, you know, we're showing up every week for one hundred

JESSICA:

episodes. And as of this.

JESSICA:

As of today. So yeah.

JESSICA:

Yeah. Husbandman, any podcasting platform has been on Instagram.

JESSICA:

I do have a Facebook group called the Bold Action Takers.

JESSICA:

I'm there as well.

BRITTANY:

Amazing. Thank you so much for this interview.

BRITTANY:

I was amazing.

BRITTANY:

You helped a lot of people with the message that you shared and you are going to continue

BRITTANY:

to help a lot of people out. And we love you and we appreciate you.

BRITTANY:

So thank you so much, Jessica.

BRITTANY:

It's been a lot of fun.

JESSICA:

Thank you.

BRITTANY:

I hope this episode got your wheels turning and showed you just how powerful you are.

BRITTANY:

I would invite you to take 30 seconds and tap subscribe to this podcast, when you

BRITTANY:

subscribe to the podcast, then rest assured you will never miss an episode and in no

BRITTANY:

time, spinning your wheels will be a thing of the past.

BRITTANY:

Thank you for listening and subscribing.

BRITTANY:

And if you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the absolute world to me if after you

BRITTANY:

subscribed, you jumped on over and left me a five star review and better yet a written

BRITTANY:

review. I am on a mission to let every mom and step mom know that you can create the

BRITTANY:

life of your dreams. And I need your help to change the world.

BRITTANY:

The world needs us.

BRITTANY:

Thank you so much for subscribing and leaving me a five star review.

BRITTANY:

I will see you next week.

BRITTANY:

Same time, same place

BRITTANY:

or more behind the scenes action.

BRITTANY:

And to get really up close and personal with me and our beautiful family, jump on over to

BRITTANY:

Instagram and follow me at the step queen.

BRITTANY:

Don't be shy. Send me a damn.

BRITTANY:

Tag me in your posts.

BRITTANY:

Tag me your stories.

BRITTANY:

Let me know what you're up to.

BRITTANY:

And what about the podcast has been blowing your mind.

BRITTANY:

I cannot wait to get to know you better.

BRITTANY:

And Instagram is my jam.

BRITTANY:

I love you so much.

BRITTANY:

I love you so much.