If you’ve ever struggled yourself or watched someone you love battle addiction, this episode is for you.

On this episode of Tri State Time Machine, I sit down with Adam Foster—a content creator and storyteller from Charleston who’s built a strong following by being unapologetically honest about his addiction, his recovery, and the realities of rebuilding his life.

Adam bravely shares what it's really like growing up in Appalachia, the trauma and family dynamics that shaped his early years, and how he found himself trapped in a cycle of addiction. Together, we explore his turning points, the heartbreak of hitting rock bottom, and the daily work that goes into recovery—not just as a personal victory, but as a message of hope for others.

Our conversation doesn’t hold anything back. We discuss the tough choices, the ripple effect addiction has on families and communities, and the challenge of rebuilding trust and making amends. Adam opens up about how sharing his journey publicly has helped him—and others—feel less alone.

I hope you’ll find honest inspiration in Adam’s story and see, through our conversation, that recovery isn’t about perfection—it’s about progress, resilience, and learning how to love yourself again.

Moments

00:00 "Adam's Journey: Addiction & Recovery"

17:53 "Life's Turning Points and Struggles"

24:15 "From Friends to Strangers"

34:09 "Confronting a Preacher's Hypocrisy"

50:53 "Transformation Through Determination"

57:10 "Reflections on Motherhood and Loss"

01:14:14 "Honesty, Recovery, and Advocacy"

01:20:07 "Raw Honesty and Vulnerability"

01:33:03 "Breaking Cycles and Finding Grace"

01:41:22 "From Addiction to Redemption"

01:55:18 Inspiration Through Shared Stories

01:58:03 "Learning Self-Love and Coping"

If you have a memory you would want me to talk more about, just send me an email at TSTM@mail.com. Or post a comment on the Tri-State Machine FB Group page.

Welcome to the Tri-State Time Machine.

I'm your host Vanessa Hankins. This is a podcast where my guests and I share our memories and present day stories of the Tri-State Area. That's West Virginia, Kentucky, and Ohio.

Nothing too serious, no political views, and no ulterior motives.

We're just here to share our fun stories about this great area.

Whether you're a past resident or a current Tri-State resident, I think you're going to have fun with us.

So join in, press play on your podcast player, and welcome to the Tri-State Time Machine! 

https://ts-time-machine.captivate.fm/episode/adam-fosters-raw-journey-through-addiction-and-recovery-in-appalachia

Copyright 2026 Vanessa Hankins

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/

Hey, guys, it's Vanessa. And today we're doing something a little out of the ordinary for our podcast. Our guest today is Adam Foster. He's a content creator and storyteller from Charleston. I think that's the best way to put it. Would you agree? Okay. He's built a very strong following by being honest about his addiction, his recovery, and what it really looks like to rebuild your life. Adam's story isn't about perfection.

It's about progress, about the moments that break you, the ones that wake you up, and the work that it takes every day after that. We're talking about where he came from, what addiction took from him, and what recovery gave back, and how sharing his story publicly has helped him both and others along the way. This episode may hit close to home for some folks. Addiction doesn't often just affect one person. It touches families, friends, and whole communities. Adam's story is his of his own, but parts of it may sound familiar to many of us here in Appalachia. So if you want to want a loose roadmap to what the story is going to look like, we're going to talk about before addiction, the turning point, maybe rock bottom, what that looked like for Adam, recovery and using his platform and the advice and hope that he has for the future for his listeners and followers. Sound good to you, Adam?

Yeah.

All right, so in your own words, go ahead and introduce yourself.

My name's Adam Foster. I'm from Charleston, West Virginia. I was born and raised in a holler. I was born and raised in a family that started off as alcoholics. My mom was a criminal. My first part of my life, all I seen was the bars and them just living their best life.

You would say at the time, absolutely. I can relate to.

My dad was an alcoholic, a womanizer. My mom was a criminal and a very hard woman that was raised with a bunch of brothers. I think she had six brothers, and.

She was a sister.

Times was what they was in Appalachia. You know, growing up in a holler, you didn't have much. You wasn't going to be much, and there was never much else but the lifestyle.

Yeah.

It becomes the narrative for most of us just to live that life, because that's what we've known. That's how we was raised, born around it. It becomes what it is. You know, when you go out in these other communities and see how people live, you can't understand it.

Yeah, it's culture shock. Like in an opposite way of what people are used to.

They the culture shock. Is that you're like, you see this stuff on TV that's being glamorized or glorified and you don't understand it until. I didn't understand it until I got older. It wasn't real to me. You went to school, you got to see these other kids living well. Y' all never was friends, really, because you couldn't relate to these people. You know, you couldn't be the rich kid or the cool kid or just the kid that had everything.

Yeah. Something that I often reflect on is I didn't get the opportunity even to be the kid that played the sports because I didn't have parents that could get me, you know, to the practices or to the games and all that. And it's little things that you don't think about that you miss out on.

Yeah. That was the one thing that growing up in the holler we did play. You know, I was actually a three sport all star all the way until.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

And I started getting high. I think I was 12 or 13. And that's when it started falling apart. When I was getting high, like on major drugs.

Yeah.

I started dibble dabbling, literally probably when I was 10 or 11.

Wow. You were young.

Just. Yeah. Like, I remember being in fourth grade and huffing glue in school because back then we had Elmer's glue and stuff. The cement. The rubber cement.

The rubber cement. And like the brownest bottle, brownest orange.

Bottle that would make your head high. Almost make out VCR cleaner. You know, there was stuff we found to get home.

I forgot about the VCR cleaner. Yeah.

Duster.

Yes.

Some whippets.

I was gonna say doing the bread bag with the spray paint.

Oh, yeah. Huff it all. Gasoline being in the hollow, the gasoline was the cheapest. And you know, it would fry brain cells. Like, still this day, I've got friends that's still messed up off huffing gas.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then, you know, the weed started because it became more prevalent. He was getting older. You could get to it. Everybody's parents had a bottle of Jack, Jim, George laying around.

Yeah.

Johnny something.

Always.

Yeah. Something. Something in the cabinet. So, you know, you would start drinking liquor and then you would fill it up with water until you got caught.

Yep, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. My. My decisions that I made around those ages are the reasons that I'm the strict parent that I am today.

I just had a talk with my. My cousins next door. They fighting great kids. And I ain't gonna say nothing about this. And they've grown up in holler, but it's changed. The narrative has changed. Right in our little one mile long holler. Now, you know, everybody's either family knows everybody, and my cousin's kids is who it is.

And they're at the beach, her and her husband. And I just had to have a whole moment with them the other day because while they was at beach, these little girls was up there fighting and fighting other girls from another hollow. And I had to sit down and explain to them. I was like, you live in the house where I made the first decision right out front that changed my life that I'm still paying for. I was like, you know, I started stealing stuff right outside and, you know, it hit home for them. They was crying about it because I was like, you don't realize, y' all's 12, 13, 14 years old. The decisions you're making right now, you're going to pay for the rest of your life if you make the wrong decisions.

100%.

Absolutely I have. And I was like, you know, in the driveway outside, it's the first place I got arrested. They never knew none of this.

Right.

They just know, you know, I wasn't around for so many years. From being in prison to me coming home now and things being different.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it was a couple hour long conversation with them. And then my cousin came home and was like, I don't know what you said to my kids. She was like, but they look at you completely different.

Right, right.

And put you on pedestal. And I was like, I didn't do it for that. I did it for trying to let.

Him understand, give him a warning. Yeah, this is what life can look like if you don't make the better choices. 100%. Yeah. Man, those are tough to have. We at Christmas were talking to my niece and her boyfriend, and we had previously been at a Marshall game and her. Her boyfriend. Yes, Go heard.

So they were just. And they're not of age to drink yet. And I know kids drink. I'm not, you know, I'm not Karen over here. I'm not like, don't have any fun. Don't do anything. But I noticed that they were starting to party a little bit more than their normal, you know, And I'm like, you know, running into you guys at the game, like, now you're chasing fun. Yeah.

And I said, you know, I said, I love you guys and I always want you to have fun. I want you to have fun responsibly. I said, but, you know, you're starting to worry me. I said, because it takes that one wrong move, that leaving the ball game and thinking you're okay killing somebody on your way home, killing yourself on the way home. Or, you know, there's just so many things that can happen from point A to point B. Or just getting into altercation at the football game because someone don't realize how drunk you are, you know, said the wrong thing.

Football games was where all of us started games.

Yep.

Friday Night Lights, you know, everybody was meeting and then figuring out where sneaking off to.

But yeah, those are tough conversations to have with the younger kids. But it's so important. And I don't feel like it's a burden on us as the older cousins or, you know, uncles, aunts, whatever. But you do have to have those tough conversations to help change that. I can't even think of the best word for it, that outcome that they could possibly have by making that one wrong decision at such a young age.

You know, it's hard to get them to grasp it. Yeah, it's hard to get anybody to grasp it that's not had life experience.

Exactly.

Because your brain don't register the same.

It really doesn't. It doesn't. And still, you know, I'm 40 years old and I still struggle with. God, this sucks. I want to go have a drink, but I know what that leads to. If that's my go to every time.

If that's your vice.

Yeah.

That brings you down.

Yep.

Everybody in the world really seems now, whether it be your phone, alcohol, heroin, meth, ice. You can name all the drugs, but then you gotta get down to people's hook to their phones more now than.

Anything they really are.

And you're living in a world of addiction and won't admit it, that you're. How many people you see don't have a phone in their hand when they're walking.

Right. And, you know, I was looking around last night while we were at dinner, There wasn't a person at a dinner table. And they're surrounded by their families and their friends, you know, having their New Year's Eve dinner. And everybody's got their phones out. And I look around my table, my daughter, her friend's got her phone. My husband has his phone out. It's like as soon as we get that two or three seconds of nothing going on, oh, pick up the phone, open up Facebook, open up Snapchat, open up TikTok. Like, whatever it is.

Which, it's. It's nice that we have that entertainment at our Fingertips. But I do believe 100% that it's creating addiction. Many, many people are very addicted to their.

People don't admit that. You know, if you're drinking pot, like drinking tea, caffeine, sugar, you know, the addiction has hit and people not being able to accept the fact that that's just what America is feeding us right now.

100%.

You know, how would a holler boy from Dry Branch be able to be a content creator? Just off making the dumb stuff I do and keeping a few hundred thousand people entertained. How does that work? Because they've created a lifestyle that made that.

Absolutely. And you know what's intriguing to me about Appalachia specifically, a lot of our people that are in recovery from whatever their advice may be, they do take to social media to share their story because. And again, this is a personal view. You don't get the support that you need from your immediate friends and family. They love you and they're happy for you.

That's because you pushed them to the point of.

That's exactly.

Like how many times are you going to relapse before what you're saying is true.

Exactly. So they turn to social media and then they get this somewhat of some fame. There's one content creator I'm thinking of specifically. I don't want to say her name or anything, but she got very, very popular. And it took one wrong turn, one wrong comment that she said about another content creator, and everybody turned on her. And within a week, she was dead. She overdosed. She relapsed.

And that's scary for me because. Or for, I think for everyone, because it just takes that one let down.

See, I never did it for Turn it Around. It was never, you know, in the beginning, there wasn't been a few hundred people in my Facebook.

Yeah.

And I just started telling a story, I think, to get it out of my head.

Yeah, absolutely.

Most of them don't do it for that. They're doing it seeking the attention, you know, and then you get hooked on the attention.

That's exactly what happened to herself, too.

Like, a lot of times I get on her event and I'm just. I'm dealing with my daughter, lives with her aunt, and she's upset with me right now because she feels like I'm seeking likes or comments. And I just tried to have a whole conversation with her was like, it's not even about that. Like, sometimes it's just about trying to get it out of my head.

Having a place to vent.

Yeah, yeah. Like it's been My journal, basically.

Yeah.

And I go back and forth, like telling dumb jokes. You've seen, like, it's basically like sometimes it's like the Robin Williams effect to me. Like I want everybody else to laugh because inside I'm dying.

Yeah. I feel that 100%.

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't create it because to me, that's the realest thing. Everybody's going through that now. If you can't laugh one moment, cry the next, and realize where you're at and still know that you got to draw your lines in life.

Right.

Then everything you do is going to be just the same circle.

Yeah. A vicious cycle that doesn't ever end. You're right. When things shifted from just use to addiction, did you realize it or was it too late after the fact for you?

Well, I sold drugs from the time I was probably 13 till I got locked up at 15. I got juvenile life for wanting to be out in the streets all the time, stealing a bunch of guns, just.

Like I said, getting up to no good.

Yeah. Google Maps just took me to one of my old gun dealers house here.

Yeah.

And had to go. I got locked up till I was almost 19.

Oh, wow.

When I got out, you know, and it was against family and when I get out, I felt like I changed.

But the family, you know, nothing had changed back home.

No, it didn't. And my dad was with a new woman. And I think I was there probably a month before they decided to kick me out. So my choice again, gotta get by. Stole everything that her and my dad had and I threw most of it in the river.

Fuck you guys.

Yeah, yeah. Like $70,000 worth of stuff in the river. And then I jumped in the river behind it, marched and froze. Almost froze to death. Swam miles down the river. It took them days to catch me. But the only thing I kept was the guns because I knew where to get rid of them. So they ended up catching me a few days later with guns.

And by this time I ended up making bond. And it took me a few months. And then I end up, you know, this time I don't have nowhere to stay. I'm 19 going probably 20. Yeah, it was probably right after my 20th birthday. And I get out then nothing. I don't have nothing. Right.

You know, none of the clothes. I got this big while I was locked up. You know, I went in six foot or so. By the time I come home at 18, I'm 6, 6, 265 pounds. Big since I was, you know, young. But I don't have nothing. I don't have no clothes. I don't have no family.

I don't have no money. I don't have no people.

Yeah.

So, you know, right around my 19 20th birthday, I started living in the projects because the only person I knew was like an extended cousin, and I started sleeping on her couch. Well, you know, I'd already experienced being locked up and knew what some of the hardships was.

Yeah.

And then the mentality hit. That's when the mentality hit. About 20 years old and I got shot. Then I was stabbed in. I'm talking in the Washington Manor in Charleston. Before they changed it, it was still, you know, really white people wasn't allowed over there. So I immediately started having to carry a gun. And, you know, you start seeing dead bodies literally within weeks of being in this place.

Yeah.

I got a bullet hole in my kneecap. I got a bullet hole in my hip, and I got one in my back.

Goodness gracious.

Little year time span over there.

Yeah.

Yeah. That was exactly when it changed because it went from living a holler life to going getting locked up to coming home to really having to be in the streets.

Yeah.

And childhood trauma will feed right into it. So I became ruthless. I became the one thing that life was teaching me how to do. I didn't want to die. And that's where it was at.

That's the scariest part, I think, for me and my listeners don't know a whole lot. They know that I come from a background that was hard and things like that, but I don't really share a whole lot of details. I share a little bit more on social media then I. Than I probably should. But I'm with you in. In the sense of, if it helps literally one person, me being vulnerable and opening up, that. That it was worth it, you know.

Absolutely. That's. That's. I there at 20. Like, I never realized I would make it this far.

Yeah.

Like, I feel like I'm on bonus time because I knew right at that moment, the moment you're talking about is I remember being in. And she ended up moving out, and I ended up being in an apartment alone. And I knew I was gonna get kicked out then too. So, you know, then it went being homeless and I met my child's mother this time. She ended up getting pregnant, and the girl loved me, you know, and I wasn't a bad person, but I was ruthless on the streets. And, you know, the things I did then, people still see me out and know, like. Right. You know, and it transcended.

And I ended up going to jail. Raw guns and going, doing a year, meeting new people, meeting new folks, learning how to navigate the streets. Even better. Come back, go right back to, you know, the streets. And by this time, I had a kid when I come home. My dad and him tried to help a little bit then, but by this time, I don't know. I'm already 22. 22, 24 years old.

And you've burnt bridges along the way.

Oh, yeah. And I'm a convicted felon.

Right.

Everybody that knows me knows that I was like a bad person out there on the streets. All I did was sell, drug, rob people.

One of those people. Can't trust what everybody says. Can't trust them as far as you can throw them.

You know? So it became, what do you do to survive? Because then I had a kid, it.

Wasn'T just you anymore.

Yeah. And all, you know, in your head was, you know, survive. And the good thing about Appalachia is that it teaches you to be resourceful.

It absolutely does.

Appalachia is that if you're on the streets of Appalachia, resourcefulness becomes.

It's a dirty game.

You're gonna live or you're gonna die here.

Yeah.

And if you choose, the addiction. And then right in there somewhere, about 24, 25, is when I started selling pills.

Okay.

I sold cocaine, sold cracks, sold anything in my hands on. I don't care. I would sell.

Right.

No matter. Whatever. Make money.

As I was gonna say, whatever was making money.

Yeah. Yeah. I kept a few thousand dollars on me at all times, just in case. Something I could buy and make money off.

Yeah.

Cars, drugs, just hustling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just the hustler's ambition.

Yep.

That's what. That's the street life. That's. That's the everyday effect of growing up in the streets. It don't matter. It can be Appalachian, but the thing about the Appalachian area is that we know different types of resourcefulness. Now. You go to these streets in other cities.

Because now I've done been. I've done bounce cities and everything. I've been from Florida all the way to.

Yeah.

New York to Detroit. All in this time.

Yeah.

And what it taught us down here was resourcefulness is that they don't have in these cities.

Yeah.

Like, they didn't understand the type of, like, we're gonna get it today one way or the other.

Yeah.

And, you know, once that the pills hit, because, you know, that's what it was. Oxy, 80s. Then that's what I started with. And I was selling them, and I was with the girl at the time, not my baby's mama. Didn't ruin that relationship. Started becoming.

That bridge was burned. Right.

Yeah. I tried to see my son and, like, me and him's best friends now, but he'll tell you it's been a long journey. But to realized, like, I thought the pill game was just. He was on top of the world.

Yeah. Because when that happened, I think everybody did. That was involved.

Yeah. When you was in the streets, I went from having to dibble, dabble, and sell all this stuff to now I found one drug and Huntington.

We come down to Huntington that everybody wants.

Yeah. And all the Detroit boys started showing up. Well, I'd already made such a name on the streets, people started coming to me.

So you didn't have to work as hard anymore.

There wasn't even other drugs to be sold.

Yeah.

We bought weed just to smoke.

Yeah.

Mushrooms, you know, to party. And then this girl that worked at Hooters, and I just went in the post I made with the girl in the hospital bed. So I started my addiction with. She's about to die, and she's in Pittsburgh. I work in Pittsburgh. So I. We started our addiction together, and she had. She had something done.

Happen to her. A little surgery. Minor surgery, and they gave her some, like, Percocet fives. Well, we're just eating these pills, and I've been selling ladies, and I hadn't touched them yet because this time I'm not. I'm not being an addict. I'm just. I just need.

Just on the grind. Right.

Just on the grind. And then when me and her. She starts doing them things, I'm. I'm looking one of these days. I think these are the same thing. They are and aren't, you know.

Right.

They're Oxycodone. Oxycontin.

Right.

And so I'm reading it up. It's a derivative. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, well, how do we do these?

Yeah.

And that was the start. That was the start. That was around 2008. 2007. 2008.

So at that point in time, I'm trying to think I had lost, at that point in time, five people from my graduating class already at that point, because they had hit so bad here that people were just dropping left and right.

Yeah. They hit up our way. But I was just in jail, and when I come home, that's when.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're 40, you said.

Yep, I'm 40.

One before, two in a few weeks. And I couldn't. We've counted up. I can't even. I don't even. I don't even know.

I don't know what the count is anymore. I tried to count it up. We had our 20 year union recently. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And you know, there's a girlfriend of mine and I'm sure you've experienced this, I'm sure with many people. We were best friends all through school, probably like fifth grade up until. Well, I mean we always knew each other, but you really bond at that fifth, sixth grade level, you know.

But we were friends all the way up. And I can go through the line where she works at here in Huntington, and she'll just look right through me like she doesn't even know me. And I'm like, this is the person that my mom and dad, you know, took us to get Olin Mills pictures made together because we were that tight. Like we were those. Yeah, we were those girls. You know, we went everywhere with each other's families. We were both like basically adopted by the other family and still like every single time. And my husband, I think he gets tired of hearing it, but I'm like, it just breaks my every time because I just want to be like.

Like I still love you. Like, I know that you are down. And I don't know if it's. She's ashamed of like the life she's lived and the life she's still living or if she truly just has no idea who I am anymore.

I've got friends right now that some I was with last night who refused to speak to me while I was getting on and now like you couldn't separate.

Right.

So I know the feeling you're talking.

Yeah.

Because I was the guy on where she's at. People that like really cared about me and they was the only ones willing to tell me when I was up.

Yeah.

Even when it was chaos and made them. And they was willing to look me in the face and be like, nope. That was the way like you. I just. I just really don't want you around anymore. The stuff you're doing that's not on that time. And I didn't even know anybody knew. It's just time I relapsed.

But yeah.

Yeah. I was with some of them last night and they. They're like brothers and. But like a brother. They told me when I was up.

Yeah. And you, you have to have that.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

You have to have it.

You're going to end up that content creator that's looking for stuff that.

Yeah.

After one little thing is going to be.

Yep.

The next person you read about. Dead.

Yep.

Yeah.

And it's heartbreaking. It really is. It's fucking like I, it's. I was telling you before we started recording, I'm. I'm so thankful that I have the strength and the tools that, you know, my, my, my aunts, my mother, their mother, my grandmother, they weren't given because in Appalachia, you know, it's pull yourself up by the bootstraps, move on, get the fuck over it. Like it's hard for everybody. So they weren't given those tools to talk out loud about the hardships and the trauma and all that. So I'm thankful that I have found those tools and a lot of my jobs in mental health and prevention and recovery have facilitated that.

I don't know that if I ever hadn't worked in those fields that I would have the strength to know. Yeah, it's probably not the best idea to run to the bar every time there's a slight inconvenience, you know, or I know I don't want to try certain things because I saw what they did to my family and I'm like, they liked it. They liked it a lot. And what if I do too? You know, it's that fear. So I'm thankful.

Well, I think the point there was always the drugs aren't the problem.

Oh yeah, it's you.

What are we using the drugs for exactly?

What are we escaping?

Yeah. Like drugs was the answer.

Mm.

Drugs was the way out. You know, and that's, that's what a lot of them are not facing. Like, you know, you're running from something. There's only one thing you start and even, even if you start it for fun. Well then what is it? Why did you need to have fun? Why? Why?

Why in that way?

Yeah. The why in there is what a lot of people can't answer even with themselves. It takes so much digging.

That's where a lot of self work.

A lot of the help is not had.

Yes.

That's where you don't know your self worth. People are down like relationships are at all time craziness right now. Girls think men are soft and we think women are just objects and just possessions and not. And it all stems from, you know, a lot of people get depressed instead of getting high like and relatable 100%. It's Appalachia.

It really is. It really is. And, and that's why I think it's so important for you to share your story with us today. Because I think a lot of people. Because a lot of my listeners are, you know, from here, but have moved away and they want to keep tabs on, you know, what's still going on at home and in the mountains. Yeah, what's going on in the mountains. So for something to watch. Yeah.

And, you know, the thing is, there's such. There's such a big gap in getting people the help that they need that we were almost without saying it, we're like, huh, let's see how many of them can die before we help a few of them.

Well, now. And even now, their answer is Suboxone and rehab, when in all reality, you're still not treating what the problem was. You're not dealing with the addiction. You're actually keeping the addiction going and making money off of it.

Right, exactly. And another thing that I really hate about the recovery, a lot of the recovery programs that kind of inundated Huntington there for a while, a lot of them have been ran out of town because of their bad practices and things like that. But a lot of them seem to want to replace the drugs or, you know, like whatever their vice was with religion.

It has to be faith. Yeah, that's. That's. And I'm not down on any of it. It's a great way to live wonderful life. But if you think you can substitute one thing for another, okay, I don't care if you're substituting one drug for another or one drug for a faith, you're still not giving that person the chance to deal with what's going on.

Exactly.

You know, it's just, well, I'm just going to believe in Jesus now, and I'm not going to get high tomorrow. And it might work for a while.

It might. But then they get that inconvenience. God failed me, so what am I gonna go back to?

Yes, and God didn't fail you. You failed yourself. You know, you should have known that. I don't. I'm not saying that. And this is my point of view, too, because I told you, I've been around all these rehab places. I still deal with a lot of them. I still send people there sometimes.

That's the first step in the route. But I don't believe that religion should have anything to do with it. I think they should make it all about the mental state, why you're chasing it, what's going on and dealing with it.

Now, if you choose to have the religion, too. Yes, yes.

Let them make that choice and say. Because, you know, when they first started down in Huntington, you couldn't even get in. You had to be. Had to go to church. You had to do this, or you can't even come to the program. So it was the forcefulness of it. If you're telling an addict, trying to force an addict, the first thing you're going to get is a brick wall. Bamboo.

Absolutely.

That's all they've had their whole life. And you're going to keep hitting that wall and they're going to sit on the other side and be like, I can't do it. I can't do it. Instead of putting a door in that wall and opening up and being like, this can be the way.

Yeah, can we. Do you want to talk about this? How can I help you help yourself?

You know, and we got religious programs and we got faith or however they want to say it, but instead it became the commodity.

Yep, 100%.

And you see how it failed and failed and failed for so long because they wasn't treating the problem right. They wasn't treating the addiction.

You're right.

Monopolized.

And you know what's crazy to me is I. I recently went to a baptism of someone who has their in active recovery. I think they're going on like seven or eight months, and that's a.

That's the hardest point.

And they had asked everyone to please come support me. I'm getting baptized, yada, yada, yada. And I'm like, okay, you know, So I make this drive out in bfe and I'm like, there's no cell phone service. I'm surrounded by people that I don't know. And like, I mean, a church full of people that are in different states of their sobriety journey, that you don't know their background, you don't know if they're going to relapse, you don't know if they're in the room and they're like, well, fuck all these people. Like, there's no cell phone service. I'll rob them all, you know? You don't know. Yeah, you don't know what you're in the.

So I'm like, okay, well, here we are, you know, and he gets baptized and all that. And it's like, suddenly they all wanted baptized because that was his answer. And he felt good, you know, And I was just like, man. And then the preacher comes up. The preacher comes up and starts preaching. And again, this is a very country church. And Starts talking about specifically, you know, those gothic people, they. They hate the Lord, they love the devil.

That's why they wear the black and blue. And I was like, my God, like, this is terrible. If this. If this is what this room full of people is, seeing as the answer, they're bound to. To fall apart. Like, this is not substantial. They're going to go out into the world with their hearts full of hate because someone's wearing black.

You know, my dad didn't go to church still. And I go over and sometimes I go with them. Yeah, it's. It's not my way. But they don't preach the fire and damnation.

Right.

You're supposed to love everybody. You know, putting Jesus's words, he. But he liked. He would rather have 99 criminals than 1. That person ain't never done it.

Yeah.

He wants the bad. Like, they all went to jail, I'm pretty sure.

Oh, I would guarantee it.

Yeah.

Not trying to be judgmental, but I would guarantee it. That's probably how they all met.

It's just. It becomes one of them things to where you're feeding the wrong part of the brain.

Yeah.

Wrong stimulation.

I literally wanted to, like, the preacher had come up after the service, and I guess he had kind of noticed me probably rolling my eyes because I can't hide my emotion at all. I don't even try. Yeah. So he came up and he said, you know, sister, did you enjoy the sermon? Blah, blah, blah. And I just. And I was trying to be supportive because I'm in the row surrounded by, you know, all these people in recovery. And I didn't want to trigger anything in them, but I just wanted to, like, grab him by the shoulders and be like, how fuck. How fucking dare you have this audience and you bring up any sense of hate verbiage at all? Like what? You know, you sound like such an asshole, but I'm like, what made you as a preacher? Someone who has supposedly been called to the Lord to help save people.

But you wanted to bring up all these gothic people. They hate the Lord, they love the devil. And I'm like, why would you do that? Like this. This is not Christianity. This is not.

The devil speaks with fourth tongue. Right.

I mean, I couldn't get out of that place fast enough. I could not.

I went to Christmas school in every day.

Did you?

Yeah.

Okay.

I can quote it.

We have an ongoing joke with. I won't go too far, but my husband and I, with some people that he's very close to. They. They went to the Local Grace Christian here in Huntington. And almost all of them have been in and out of jail. Da da da da. And I'm like, you know, their parents paid for this higher education, you know, with the gospel and everything else. I said, but it was a worse place.

There was more availability of them getting their hands on the bad stuff than what there was in the normal high schools. Because a lot of them are affluent, they have the money, the parents are away, the access, you know, the money.

The money's the thing.

Yes.

I mean, they say it's rude. All evil for a reason, but, you know, you can't survive without it. You know, you gotta. The fine line has to be there. But when you're young and you're able.

To get your hands on mine, you're untouchable.

It creates a different level of. Because you can sneak this way, that way, and this way, and people don't notice.

Cause you're just a kid, and they don't notice. But then when it becomes a problem, suddenly the parents don't want to look bad, the family doesn't want to look bad, so they sweep it under the rug. They fix the problem, they pay it to go away, you know, and that enables it worse. And it's like, instead of stepping in and being like, you know, what is it that my kids escaping, they're just like, oh, it's okay, honey. Just keep going.

Yeah, gotcha.

It's fine. Let me get you a new car. Once you wrap that one around the light pole last weekend, you know, partying with your friends, Even though you're 17, you know, let's. Let's just get you a new car and send you on your way.

It happens.

Yeah.

You know, our school wasn't as prevalent with, like, the higher. I went to Dupont, then Riverside.

Okay.

And there was a lot of money there. There were some kids that had vehicles, you know, when we was young and stuff. But it wasn't the money. Wasn't like when I started experiencing the other schools and.

Yeah.

Places. And, you know, once I come back home at 18, 19, and being around these other places, and I was like, these other kids got money. I guess we start running up down the valley selling weed because all the other schools had all, you know, man, they got money. They got money. Money.

Yeah. They got money to spend, and I'm ready to take it.

Buy me one of their cars. They got.

Yes, absolutely. Who or what made for you Recovery unavoidable. What. What was it in you there? What stopped you in your tracks to say, like, this is not the life for me anymore.

Well, I can almost January 27th of last year. So I'm getting ready, hit my two year mark.

Okay. Congratulations.

I went to the hospital, I was, I was dying and I knew it. I had flu building up on me bad. Like I probably weighed 200 pounds at the time.

Jeez.

But I was over 300 pounds.

Yeah.

Like I was blowed up like this.

Yeah.

Looked like I was pregnant. I was big. And I went to the hospital and checked myself in that night. And I was on the run. I had a warrant. It was probably just a way to dodge a warrant too at the time. But I knew I was messed up too. Yeah, my dad talked me into going and dropped me off over there.

And I was sitting outside smoking heroin. Then right then I done collapsed all my veins. I hadn't been able to shoot up in over a year because I've collapsed everything in my body, everything but my neck. And I could never hit.

Yeah.

So I just started smoking it. So I'm sitting outside the hospital smoking heroin. They finally take me upstairs. Well, as soon as they start running my vitals and stuff, they was like, you're going to ICU right now.

Right now.

And I was like, all right. So then I'm like, I'm about to be dope sick up here. Because it. Hospitals ain't about no. They don't care if you're dope sick or not.

Nope.

Well, they take me upstairs and get me naked, start checking me like. Cuz I'm bad sweat.

Yeah.

I can't tie, I can't even. My feet are so big. I'm wearing sandals and barely fitting them, you know.

Damn.

And so they get me naked, start cleaning me up, check me. Everybody start trying to find a vein. They can't, they gotta get a central machine. Well then somebody gets shot with a gun, they leave me wide open, door wide open. And I just walked out. I went to the nurse's desk and got all my stuff because I knew my heroin was in it and left. So I left, left that day. And I made it about another two weeks and the warrant finally caught up with me.

And by this time I'm messed up. Messed up. Yeah, I can't hardly walk. Like I'm still in cars just to get place to place, right. Well, I drop one of the cars off, start walking. I don't make it 100 yards. Sheriff sees me and knows me, shout out to him. I won't say his name, but he's a local canal carry sheriff.

And he's a training officer now, but he picks me up and was like, what? I didn't know his wife worked at the hospital. And he was like, I heard he was about to die.

And I was like, where'd you hear that? Yeah.

I didn't find out until a few months ago.

Okay.

How he found out. Yeah, My cousin lives next door to me, and her work together.

Okay.

I worked hospital. Nobody tells me this till a few years ago, but he was like, I heard you was about to die. And he's like, it looks like, yeah. He was like, I'm gonna give you two options. He was like, I'm gonna take you to your dad's house, and I'm gonna give you 24 hours, and I'm gonna be back tomorrow. And he was like, if you ain't in the hospital, I'm gonna arrest you. And he was like, and you're gonna die in jail. He's like, because you're about to die right now.

He's like, and you're not getting the help you need in the jail.

Nobody else doesn't went through it. Doesn't come down out there, done overdose out there, done died out there, done. The detox pods at regionals was started because me and a guy went in so high. He died and I fell out. His family sued, and within months, they started the detox pods. I'd have to go back and look, tell you exactly when it was, but, yeah, it was me and another guy. But we get to my dad's, and I'm like. He calls in and tells his shift officer.

He's like, I'm not arresting him, and sent him a picture of me. He's like, I can't even get handcuffs on him right?

So swollen.

Couldn't put cuffs on me, couldn't put shackles on me. He was like, where we can come up here and get him tomorrow? He was like, he can't even hardly walk.

Yeah.

This was the night before Valentine's Day. And I was like, ah. My dad hadn't seen me since I walked out of the hospital. You know, it's been a couple weeks already. Almost three weeks. And, you know, it's five in the morning, six in the morning, the sheriff's got a knock on my dad's door. My dad's, you know, almost 70. And wake my dad up and told him and my dad I wouldn't allow my dad's house.

Yeah.

Because of how nasty I was living, how dirty. But this time, I've been on the streets for. Right, for a Minute they got me, multiple murders they blamed on me. It was just a very bad time.

Trying to get things stuck, see what would stick. Throw it and see what sticks.

Yeah. Yeah. And so when I get there, you know, Dad's like, he can't come in here. And Jersey was like. He asked him. He was like, give him 24 hours until I'm asking. And he was like, and if he leaves your house out in the hospital, he's like, you call me, I'll drive straight back up here.

Yeah.

Even if I don't do it, I'll get my car, I'll come get him.

Yeah.

I was like, oh. So Valentine's Day, the next day, I made a choice. It was time to go to the hospital.

Yeah.

And just. I didn't know I was getting my addiction up still.

Yeah.

I knew I was dying. I already knew I was dying. I had a heart attack somewhere in them a few days, didn't I?

Goodness gracious.

By the time I get back to the hospital that next night, I went in, I had three types of pneumonia, flu B, hepatitis C. I had a heart attack. I had endocarditis. And I had a little over 100 pounds of flu on me when I landed. And I went to the East End instead of Canal City this time. And when I went down the east end of Charleston, which is Memorial, one of them is Memorial Williams General. I always get them mixed up.

I do, too.

And I hated both these hospitals because they suck.

They. They absolutely do.

But they immediately, as soon as they see me, same thing. It was like, you're going upstairs to. They call it the death here and second floor. And you're going upstairs.

Yeah.

Then, like, the main doctor come in. I'm still in, like, emergency room downstairs. Well, right before that cop had arrested me, I traded that car for bag of heroin big enough to kill myself. So when I got to the hospital.

You're trying to go out without any pain.

Yes, I was. And they was like, you don't have an hour or two for anybody in here. So as soon as they leave, I start trying to overdose myself. The nurse comes back in about 10 minutes later to tell me my son's there. Catches me with the dope.

Yeah.

And I got enough. I probably had a half ounce or maybe an ounce of heroin on me. I had enough. I was going to prison for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

And my condition wouldn't be long anyway, but right. I was going. It was a life sentence because of my history, my past. And she was like, I'm gonna give you one chance. She was like, you can either give me everything you got on me. She was like, and when I get back, you're gonna have to make a choice whether you're gonna die in jail or you're gonna help yourself.

Yeah.

And my son came in, and he hadn't talked to me in two or three years, but he's 19, 20 at the time.

Yeah.

And he come in and just looked at me and shook his head, and he was like, yes, I'll go out. That's what you're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's hard. That's real tough. Yeah.

And he said. And talked to me for a few minutes, but he was like, I can't see you like this. He was like, you look like shit. The nurse just told us that you're. And they hadn't even told me yet, but the nurses told them, like, I guess my family, that I needed to make a will.

Yeah.

I wasn't gonna make it more than five or seven days. No matter what they did, I be dead by the end.

Right.

And then she come back in and told me right then. Right then I made the choice.

Damn. You're ready to live again.

Yeah. Yeah. So. Oh, God. It was. I think it was two months, three months in the hospital and on that floor, the death floor, almost the whole time.

Goodness gracious, move off it.

Until like, the last month. And I didn't have none of the surgeries. I refused all surgeries. I refused everything. Some in my head just kept telling me, keep fighting. Keep fighting.

Yeah.

And I just kept fighting. Four out of the six roommates I had died right beside me. Because that's just how.

That's how the floor rolled. Yeah.

It's the floor you're on. That's what's going on. That's what's gonna happen to you. We've got to look forward to. And then, like, the last two weeks, they finally moved me down to, like, the regular icu, or, you know, just. You might make it.

Yeah.

And then when they finally decided to kick me out or, you know, just discharge me.

Yeah.

You know, they come in and tell me. He was like, I had 8% heart function. My fraction value was at 8%. He was like, we couldn't even done the surgeries if we wanted to because if we put you under, you wouldn't have woke up.

Right.

And that. That stayed all the way until, like, April this year. Like, I just got.

Wow.

Yeah. Fought the whole time.

Yeah.

And I think when I got out of the hospital, I was probably 200 pounds, 206 pounds. So they said they took 109 pounds of water off of me and don't eat salt. The doctor giving me a whole thing. He was like, but more than anything, he was like, I ain't gonna tell you that relapsing will kill you the first time. He's like, but I'm not gonna tell you it's not right. He was like, your heart's bad. He was like, if you relapse, you're gonna die. And he was like, if you make it more than a week getting high.

He was like, I'm gonna call it a miracle. And he was like, you're walking miracle right now, because you should have never been here.

And honestly, like, thank God for someone speaking that truth to you, because a lot of people tiptoe about addiction.

He stepped all of my feelings.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

And I can't lie. He was the realest doctor I'd had said that with me. And he just sat down nonchalantly and told me. He was like, yep. He really did. And just told all of them, hey, good. See you got left. I mean, and.

Yeah, just shock and awe on how for real it was. But he was the same one that come in and told me. He was like, yeah, you got to make a wheel. And he was the one I broke down to, I think is why he come in and tell me that. Because when he told me that, I was like, I don't have nothing but heartaches and chaos to lead people.

Right.

I was like, I can't go out like this.

Yeah.

I was.

Just got a lot of wrongs to make right.

Yeah. I've been making amends since. Yeah. Everything from robbing preachers to, like, I can say so much stuff, and they're probably gonna listen to it. One of the. I was at a funeral. One of my friends, like, I said, guy I've known my whole life. His dad's a preacher.

My dad is in the church. And another one. They're real good friends. Like, I'd stole a bunch of stuff, but the police couldn't hardly catch me doing nothing right. But when I seen him, I broke down. I'd been sober about a year at the time, but I hadn't seen him yet.

Right.

I seen him at the funeral. Broke down. Yeah. I broke down on him. And he was like. He was like, oh, I knew. He was like, but you coming to me the way you have, and sober, like, just making amends everywhere.

Yeah.

Back to being good. Good graces. With all of them talk to everybody. They check on me all the time. Like. Yeah, it's. It's definitely. That was definitely the point.

Yeah.

The whole past year with that moment was being told I was going to die and relapse and seeing my son right now in about a minute.

Right. Yeah.

I was going out. I was going to kill myself. I didn't want nobody to see me like that. I done burned every bridge.

Yeah.

None of the family was there. None of them was going to come. You know, don't push the point. Like, it's just. It's just another happen.

Exactly.

Either I'm either finally going in the grave or I'm going back to jail. That's just. And that's.

That's the story. Right?

15 years old.

Yeah. Again, I think a lot of our listeners, especially our younger generations, are really going to relate to this. And then I think some of our older ones are going to see a side that they didn't know was real. Because I don't. You always hear like, you know, we do recover, you know, we get better, we become who we were before the addiction, yada, yada, yada. But a lot of people, oh, you change. You change so much. Yeah.

But I think a lot of them have never got to hear the story or see it in a real sense from a real human that they can, you know, look up on social media or get to know. So I'm hoping with this episode that people see that, you know, it is true. It's not just a slogan. When someone wants it bad enough and they get sick enough of themselves and they want to make it happen, they can make it happen. You talked a little bit about, you know, the officer, the sheriff who kind of saved you. Is there anybody else that you feel like was a. And I love that it was a law enforcement. I really do love that.

And I love that. Yeah, I love that. Because, you know, we were talking before we started recording that sometimes addicts get lost, lost in the mix of, you know, people just assume they're these zombies that, you know, they're going to die one day or another, you know, so what's the point? And there is a point. There's a point that these are still humans. And, you know, they. They weren't given the tools that they needed to overcome that trauma. And I live that every day. You know, I.

I make the decision every day. And I am. I'm not in recovery, but I know that addiction is so heavy in my family on both sides that, you know, it. It keeps Me in line. It makes me not want to test.

The waters when you don't have that. I think it was just a shock and awe to me. Like, finally what hit. It was just. Yeah, I broke. I really, finally broke.

Yeah, yeah.

Like you. You hear people say that and I'm like, if you would have really broke, you to really change.

Yeah.

If you really hit rock bottom, let me tell you, most of these people that say they hit rock bottom don't realize there's a shovel sitting right beside them. You can get deeper. Because I. I swore I kept hitting it and kept hitting, kept hitting it.

Right.

I rubbed that shovel down to where it wasn't nothing but a stick. Then I started using a stick to use the dig. Right. So people. And then now I even say after I got the end of the stick, I finally quit. In all reality, I could have kept digging with my hands until you're in the grave. And they don't understand that like rock bottom to everybody is different. Rock bottom is one of them things to where when you hit it, you're really going out.

You're really going to be able to.

Right. And we're all so different as human beings. You know what your rock bottom is? Maybe my two slight inconveniences depending on how strong you are, you know. And I think that's. I think that's why Appalachia has been so heavily hit with the opioid crisis and with.

I don't have the picture stated, but you could be able to get on my Facebook.

Yeah.

The sheriff was just at my dad's house.

Oh, I love that.

With six or seven officers. Oh, and I'm in Pittsburgh.

Yeah.

That. Don't ever video call me while I'm work.

Yeah.

And he's got this big grin on his face and he was like, there's somebody here wants to talk to you. And he turns the phone around and I got. There's a big post about it. And he turned the phone around. In Jersey, it's got all these new sheriffs up here that he's training. And it's like I just wanted him to see what real change looked like.

Oh, that's beautiful.

Pittsburgh. Yeah. My dad's crying his eyes out over.

Yeah.

You know, anytime there was ever at me, cops showing up to my house.

They was looking bad news. Right.

Yeah. It was hard times in my life.

Now I bet your dad's heart dropped when he saw them all at the door before he realized what was going on.

Now, like for once, like, he knows. He knows where I'm at. Yeah, he's been through enough with me. In his head, he knew, like, either it's something from the past or something's going on.

Yeah.

He. He don't have them thoughts anymore.

Oh, that's wonderful.

Finally. Finally.

All right.

Yeah, that's wonderful. Almost 42 years into it, he finally look at me and be happy with what's going on.

Right. I'm glad that you have been able to mend that relationship, because like you said with your mother, with the, you know, the criminal past and the addiction and stuff like that, sometimes when people choose to just stay in that life until it does kill them, it's so hard to connect with them and get that relationship that our hearts desire so much in order to heal.

Yeah. You know, I still long for my mom. You know, it's my mom, but I'm just. More than likely she's going to die and we're going to be on bad terms.

Yeah.

It's going to crush me because she was always my rock. But what I didn't realize and a lot of people here, it's. It's going to hurt some feelings. But she was also always running from her own demons and.

Yeah.

And enabling me to be as toxic as I wanted to be.

Right.

And when I. When I got out of the hospital, that's where I went. Last year, I went to North Carolina. Down there. I'm going to go down here. I'm going to try to help myself and save my mom. I had a life vest on because they were still. Even when I got hospital, they were for sure I wasn't gonna make it.

So I had to wear one of the vests to shock you back to life when you fell over. And I got hit a few times. Goddamn. Things ain't cool.

Not a good time.

No, they ain't. But as soon as I get down there, my sister's there, and my sister's an alcoholic, and she's struggling with her own demons. She's got problems just like everybody else, but she's not dealing with them. Right. And my mom had a hard life, and she probably had a harder life than I did.

Yeah.

And that's saying something. To look back now, and she's not learning how to cope or deal with it.

That's. I shared a post this morning, and people who follow me on social media, you'll see it. We lost my aunt yesterday. All said and done, alcohol is what got her. And as a child, I remember, and I'm named after her. My middle name is Carol. And that's her name. And so as a child, I just remember looking up to her because she was the one out of our family that kind of moved away and made something of herself.

You know, she was a Sunday school teacher, she had this great marriage, she owned businesses, like a, like a strip mall with like Laundromats and little stores and stuff like that. And, you know, and they had a boat, they went out on the weekends and, you know, I didn't know anything like that. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know anything about what that looked like, you know, so I just thought she made it, you know, but, you know, looking back now, you know, becoming 40 and losing my mom and it's made me really dig deep of like, why, why couldn't they be the mothers like my aunt, my mom, specifically. Why couldn't they be the mothers to us that we deserved? But the point is they were never given those tools.

That's why I'm not mad at my mom.

Yeah, you can't be. You can't. You can't hold that grudge.

She loves in her own way. And yep, it's, it was, it's not a correct way, but it's, it's the.

Only way they knew.

It's what she knew.

That's exactly it, you know, and.

Yeah, it's just hard going down there. Last year, you know, the first thing she did, she had me hiding her pills. She still gets pills. She had me hiding her pills. And I'm sitting there trying to save my life, coming just months off being a full blown thousand dollar a day heroin user and stemming from pills and to have here's a couple hundred bills to hide for me. So your sister don't take them all or steal them. I don't eat them all. So we try to stretch them out through the month.

Laying in here dying, literally. And that's when I made the choice to get up. I started going to Suboxone clinic, then made a poor choice and I'm gonna say it. And if you can get around taking Suboxone, people you listen to this. Don't take it, but if it's a must, take it. And I ended up being on it for like 18 months and I finally just got up and I got tired. I got tired of it too.

Yeah, because I realized that's like, obviously I'm not an addict, so I can't speak from that point of view. But it seems like keeping up with the clinics and when they open and the hours and all that like that, that's a Lot of work in of itself just to. Just to be able to get by from not being dope sick.

What you got to realize is when you're chasing that dope every day, it's an everyday, all day, constant affair. So it actually like substitutes that substitute again. Like, it gets to the point where you're exchanging having to get up in the morning, go break the law, steal something, sell something, do something.

Instead you're going to get in line.

Instead you're going to get in line. So it's, it's, it's. You're just substituting one for the other.

Yeah.

So the time waiting in the line when you're talking to all the other lifelong addicts there, all of it just feeds into that same Persona.

Yeah.

And I just got tired of it. I immediately like dealing with the clinic.

They.

I had to work out of town. They didn't want me to be working out of town. How you gonna tell me, like, I got a good job.

Yeah.

For U.S. steel, I gotta live. Yeah. It's like. So I, I talked to my boss. I was like, you know, I may need a week or two off. I was like, but I'm gonna try to walk this out. And you know, Suboxone.

And they end up giving me a shot, the Suboxone shot. And it's only last a week. It's all lasted.

Yeah.

And Suboxone and methadone are like real hard to come off of it. I've heard that takes forever to withdraw your system. So I spent, I spent like two months sick and didn't tell anybody.

Yeah.

But I walked the plumb out. And everybody's like, you know, how'd you do it? I was like, you wanted it. Will and determinations, I'll tell you.

Yeah.

Because I was sick the whole time.

Yeah.

Yeah. Probably two months. I was quiet. Didn't say nothing. Just couldn't. Only eat.

Yeah.

I'm driving truck as big as, you know, vacuum truck.

Right.

I'm having to. I'm having to pay attention to everything I'm doing and feel bad on top of it. But.

Yeah.

Yeah. It just comes to the point of the 1. Are you tired of it or not? Did you hit that rock bottom or not? Did you. Did you accept the fact that you will be an addict the rest of your life or not? Because I didn't. I hate being a loser. The one thing in life that's always been like, my thing is I hate losing anything. I guess I'm a sore loser. And I felt like I was losing.

Yeah.

I was losing the battle. And even with, you know, using Suboxone, I still felt like I was letting the government control the battle that I was fighting.

Right. That's a. Interesting standpoint to have.

Yeah. And I decided to quit losing.

It's so interesting to me, the divide amongst addicts and people who aren't addicts as well. If Suboxone is the answer, you know, it's divided. It's one side or the other.

Here's the answer to that. If you know that you can't beat it, use it.

Yeah. If it's the way to stay alive.

If you're willing to be honest with yourself and this is the best life that you can live. Because if not, you're going to go back because you can't beat it. Absolutely. 100%.

Take it.

But give yourself the chance first.

Yeah. See what you're made of.

Yeah.

Might surprise yourself.

Yeah, I did. I swear to God, I'd be dead or back in jail. And here I am sitting with you, telling your story. Yeah. Telling my story. So it's definitely a change.

Absolutely.

Change of guards.

Yeah, 100%. I'd like for you, if you don't care to share, tell me about a time that you most regret during your active addiction.

Most regret probably. Leaving my son at daycare once. It's a small story, but, yeah, I chose my addiction. And his mom, they ended up calling. He was there like an hour longer than anybody else. It's the one that hit me the hardest. And he was like 5 or 6 at the time, so he was old enough. He was a dad.

He knew something was up.

Oh, yeah. And this is how I knew that, like, the choices was finally being made, that everything I was doing was going to crash my life. And it's when I pulled away from my son and my child's. My child's mother, it was that day. It's still, you know, and it's been 18, 16 years ago. He's 21 now.

Yeah.

And I remember that day still, like, that's the first thing that flashed my mind because that's the day I knew that I was choosing addiction over everything in life.

Yeah. When you can do something over your child, I can't even imagine, because that is the kind of thing that sticks with you because even has nothing to do with addiction. But if I'm 10 minutes late running behind because I got a wreck or something, I feel like the mom guilt so bad. So I can't even imagine it being.

For a choice robbing other drug dealers or Any of the mayhem that comes with it. I physically hurt people, but they was bad people. Just like I was. It was. It was my kids.

Yeah, I get that.

Everything to do with my kids, 100%.

What does recovery really look like day to day for you?

It's a struggle every day. Yeah. I'm almost two years in. I don't care. It's a battle every day. And you know, coming off the Suboxone stuff, that's when I realized it. If you're really gonna fight, get really sober. And you know, I drink some, but I'm not alcoholic.

I don't drink to get drunk. I don't do like everyday partying. But using a needle every day and shooting, like I said I was shooting the last probably year, year and a half. My addiction, I was probably doing 8 to 10 grams of heroin a day and probably 4 or 5 grams of ice with it at the same time. I'm speedball junkie.

Right. Yeah.

So.

The fact that you're alive today is like astounding.

Yeah. 12 times I've either overdosed or been pronounced dead. 12 times. They either told me I wasn't gonna make it to the morning or I've been Narcan seven times. I can't. Like it's been stabbed seven times. I had my throat cut. Like I can.

There's so much to it that it's not even like just the amount of everything I went through for being an abbey. Even when I got stabbed. They stabbed me seven times. I got up off the floor, took the 80s I had out of my pocket, lung collapsed, throat cut and hit the 80s under the sole of my shoe and fell back out. Went to jail for two and a half years and then went straight back to the police department and got my stuff so I could get. Get the pills and was still my stuff.

Holy moly. And they were still there.

Yeah.

They didn't even check your stuff to.

Well, they had. I just got stabbed seven times and they cut everything off me.

Right.

And it just went into evidence. Yeah.

And then that's wound.

Then I wouldn't even press charges like to do because, you know, I'm in the street mentality. You don't tell.

Yep.

So keep your mouth shut. Victim of a violent crime fund. I was looking at 200 some thousand dollars because a dude stabbed me at the bar when I was working. And because my street mentality and being a drug addict, I chose. I let him walk.

Yeah.

Yeah. I wouldn't go to court on him or nothing.

Yeah. There's A lot of that in Appalachia as well. I think the whole mentality of the snitches get stitches runs deep.

I mean, it does. But nowadays, like, the sad thing is everybody says it, but that's not the case.

It's not. People turn right now.

Yes, they do, absolutely. Like being in prison here lately. Lately? I've been out since 21. It's not lately no more. It's been a few years. But the last run in the prison, some of the gang literature now in the own bylaws that they're allowing to tell on people as long as they're not. It's not their own brothers or gang members. Yeah.

Like it's getting serious. Like. Yeah, you hear people say that, but anymore it's a dog eat dog world, period.

Oh, 100%. 100%. That's why I told you before we started recording. You know, I work a lot with the police department and you hear bits and pieces, like when something crazy happens in town and finally you get to have that sit down. What really happened, what went on, you know? Oh, we knew from the get go because immediately we got three phone calls telling us exactly what happened. We just had to watch them for a couple of days and, you know, check the facts and. But they know. They know immediately.

Sometimes they know before it even happens. They were probably watching and didn't do shit about it because they're trying to build a case for something else.

Yes. Yeah. Sometimes in that world and in the street life, if you're smart enough to sit back and think that these drug dealers have been selling drugs in the same spot, same location for 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, and are not working with the police.

Exactly. You're living. You're living in an alter. Yeah. You're living in a dream world.

It's an alter ego. Like there's no way. Because in this life, they're not gonna want to be dope sick. They're not gonna go without it. The first time you piss them off, don't give nothing, they're gonna tell on you. And then you've been out here doing this this long.

Yeah. You're talking to somebody 100%. So talk about over the years, your relapses, the accountability you had for those relapses and rebuilding the trust with the people that you care about in your family.

Well, let me be honest. The relapses was only because I went to prison. I never stopped getting high.

Yeah.

This is the first and only time I acted like it a few times. And Said it. But I chased dope from the time I was 12, 13 years old when I started doing meth. And you know, back then the meth was really strong until Valentine's Day a couple years ago.

Yeah.

Even in prison. Fought people, hurt people. Was facing life sentences inside. Beat people up so bad inside. A couple people died. Crazy stuff happened. I saw it in.

Yeah.

Matter of fact, it's probably the first time I've ever admitted it, but.

Well, I hate this narrative that everyone thinks that we're going to arrest our way to recovery. Like that's not going to happen. The drugs are so much more easy attainable in jails. From what I've educated myself on.

They're giving them Sabacci and at the cart now.

Yeah.

You can come in on nothing.

It's wild.

And just doing other drugs. They will give them. They're giving them some option.

Yeah. Because we're getting you into recovery.

Yeah.

That was my air quotes. You guys can't see that at home.

But like that amazed me. I was like, like, you drive detox people to killing them here just 10 years ago. Now you're literally. If they're on meth or they're on. If. If you're on anything other than heroin, you should not be put on an opiate drug.

Right.

So you're going to jail with a mental addiction that you could clear with maybe some stuff.

Yeah.

And some help.

Yeah.

And then you're coming out with an opiate.

Yeah.

So now they just made you speedball junkie because now you're chasing opiates and.

Right. You know, I was really shocked. I'm not gonna say who. It's their story to tell. Not me, but. Or not mine. But girl I know was in jail, had never used drugs in her life probably. I mean she smoked weed and caught like in college, like they dab.

She dabbled in stuff, you know, but never had a problem. I pick her up from jail and one of the second or third things she told me I tried heroin. I just wanted to die in there. It was so miserable. It was so bad. She said, you know, you can't be honest and tell them what your mental state is because then they put you in the hole because you're suicide watch.

Put you in a pickle suit. They take all your stuff from you and all you guys in paper ground are freezing to death.

Well, and she was telling me specifically. I'm not even gonna say what state she was in because that'll give it away of who it is. But said there Was literally a hole in the floor, like a drain. That was her bathroom for number one. Number two, no toilet paper in there. You would have to tell them, hey, I use the bathroom, I need a shower now. Or something like that.

Yeah, you can put in a pickle tank.

It's crazy but. But I was like, how the hell did you get your hand on this? She was like, you know, I wanted to die. She was like, you know, you hear all these stories of these people just dying from one time use. She said, I was hoping I was gonna be the one.

Yeah, you still see even here locally lately there's been people overdose. That is a narrative.

Yeah. We're definitely not going to arrest our way out of this problem.

Even with the Suboxone if they check it long enough. Yeah.

It's crazy that so much of this is common knowledge, but none of like in an official capacity. Nothing's changing.

What do you mean? They need the revolving door. They need the money.

Oh, you're right. You're right.

They need this to happen. Because if not, you can't have a.

Whole woke that funding goes bye bye.

You can't have a whole woke community because then everybody realizes what you're doing and you're right.

I never thought of it in that way.

It can't get the funding. It can't get. You have to have the revolving door to create. One of the largest jobs in Appalachia is the Department of Corrections and the.

Prison system and it's such a mess. Yeah.

Coal mines is dead now. What do you like around here?

You're right.

They say Big Pharma did it. Well, they're still doing it. They just was doing it in the jails now.

Yeah.

So now, now, now you're using the recovery. Oh, well, we're getting them in recovery. So we're going to give them Suboxone and we're gonna give them Subutex and we're gonna give them these shots and we're gonna do all this stuff to help them. Well, if you would just give them the real help they need.

Right.

There's not no money.

Pay for some damn therapy and give them the time that they deserve with that therapist pay. Yep.

You gotta pay to help them instead of getting paid to help them.

Right. Again, that was Mary Quiz, guys.

Yeah. You'll realize they've. They've not gave up. It's. The world's gonna keep functioning how it functions.

Yeah.

It's crowd control.

Yeah.

They need everybody to overdose and creates that revolve.

Yeah. And I really Think. And that's a big reason why I wanted to do this episode. And I remember you asked me, you were like, why me? Why me? I was like, well, you're so. You're honest. You're honest about your story, about your addiction, about your recovery. And we're gonna have to, as a community or in each of our communities, you know, you're from a different area than I am, but we're gonna have to have people that are advocating in a way that these younger generations have the tools that they need to be like, hell, no, I'm not touching that. Like, I know what that outcome is.

I was such the bad person in my community. Like, nobody wanted to be around me. And still they're scared of me because of the choices I made and did, like, families, kids, people, like, people don't. People like that don't change is what everybody. Everybody says.

Yeah.

And I'm still me. You see what I post. I'm still goofy as hell. I never lost my mentality of, like, what I was when. Before all this.

Yeah.

You know, just being a jokester and making people laugh and trying to be funny. But I will hit them with some of the realest conversations you'll have. And I had to learn that there's got to be a balance in there and in life. But when you become that stigma of your area and then they see how you're living day to day, and it becomes like, I can just openly sit and talk about the mayhem now. Now it enthralls people to have the conversation with me because you can ask a question and get a real answer. You're not going to get that from most people. And when you're asking questions, most people really would even be scared to ask.

Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of people, depending on where they are in their journey, you want to kind of tiptoe because you don't want to be that trigger that sends them down that hole of thinking about those bad. Because maybe they don't focus on those. Maybe that's their coping mechanism for the time being to get themselves sober. And you don't want to trigger that. I know with, like, family members of mine, my grandma would always say, you know, we don't talk about that. We don't discuss that. That's their business, blah, blah, blah, you know, And I'm like, now as I'm older, I'm like, we have to talk about it.

It's got to be a conversation or we're gonna keep losing everyone.

The reason why it's still even the people that get the right type of help, the problem is they're not getting the mental help. And people are getting sober and thinking that that's what the thing to do is. Getting sober is just getting sober. If you got sober just to get sober and not make amends for what.

You'Ve done, probably not gonna last and.

Make amends with yourself. Whatever it is that's caused you to create the problem in your head, sooner or later, it becomes your problem. I don't care where it caused childhood trauma, what it was, anything in life.

Yeah.

Sooner or later, it becomes your problem.

Yeah. And it always catches up.

And if you don't deal with it, then you're gonna. You're just waiting on the next problem to arise so you can relapse.

Right? Yeah. It was my husband and I this morning. We were watching the Today show because we're old people now. That's who we are in our. He's in his late 30s, early 40s. I know, right? So we're watching it, and they're talking about their New Year's resolutions and stuff.

And New Year, new me.

Yeah. So he. And he's a smart ass. Like, he's. He's one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. I'm. I'm so thankful for him. But again, we come from two different worlds.

Two different worlds. So he looks over at me, being a smart ass that he is, and he says, what's your New Year's resolution? You gonna drink less coke and eat less fudge rounds? Because, like, I'm. I'm a sweets jun. Like, I 100% is. But I'm always like, I'm gonna do better. I'm gonna quit buying them. I'm gonna be healthier. You know, I'm not gonna do.

I want to do that, but I'm not gonna do it. But, you know, there was a moment of just this raw feeling in me, and I looked over at him and I said, you know, I want to be less depressed. That's my goal for this year. Because I've had tremendous loss in the last three years, and I've dealt with so much. And I never felt I knew what depression was. And I've saw other people struggle with it, but until I struggled with it myself, I didn't understand how hard it is to, like, fucking open your eyes, put your legs over the side of the bed, get up, take a shower. Yeah, man. Like, it's hard.

And, you know, again, he's a smart ass, and he Said, you just gotta fight through it. And I said, that is the stupidest fucking thing you could ever, ever say. I said, please never say that to anyone else. I said, I know that you're joking. I said, but somebody may not. I said, and that is not the answer. The push through it. I said, because depression, you.

Yes, there's medicines for it, but you have to be careful, again with Big Pharma, of what they're putting you on, because then your body becomes addicted to it and you can't function without it, and that's nowhere that you want to be. I don't think as a society, it's great that these medicines exist, but is it. Is it for some people, maybe we've.

Been on this planet how many years?

You're right.

Since when did medicine come into play?

You're right. I didn't think of it that way. You're right.

It was herbs.

Well, that's what I was gonna say. You know, they went for hundreds of years, you know, hundreds of thousands of years without it. And you didn't have this shit and.

Didn'T have none of this.

You didn't have none of it. People thr. They were hard workers. They lived long lives, you know, So I just looked at him and I was like, you know, that's the dumbest thing that you could ever say to someone. I said, please don't repeat that again. But in those moments of raw honesty, you almost feel naked, you know, to say that. And it's very, very hard to say it to your significant other that, you know, the one person that you don't want to burden with that mental health and those traumas and where we do come from, two different worlds. Sometimes I'm like, man, what if he just decides? And, you know, we've been together 20 years, so I know this is me in my own head.

I'm like, what if he decides he hates me? Like, what if he don't want to handle my drama, you know, or my. My not even drama, my trauma? What if he's tired of seeing me cry? Like, what if he's tired of my sadness? You know, I go through it.

I still have relationship problems because I don't know how to deal with people. I don't know how to communicate.

Me neither.

I was just with the one girl. I mean, just split up. And I just really. The stuff I don't think there's anything wrong with, I gotta take a step back and look at and realize, like, damn, that's kind of. That's kind of assholish I was. It just takes me a while to comprehend because. Because of the craziness in life and like, people think they've seen, you know, I had a hard lifestyle and stuff too. And I think they think the same way.

And they. And they realized that everybody's brain process is different.

Absolutely.

And I've realized that I'm a very hard person to deal with. And I have that same thought you just said, like, with everybody now. I don't care if it's friends, family, because I feel like everything I ever had I lost. And everything I loved did me wrong. It's just them times. I don't care if it's 20 years or it's been 40 for me. And I'm still having the same thoughts.

Yeah.

And the people I got around me now, like, I know love me. Like my friends and family and stuff.

Yeah.

So I know I. Relationships is going to be a hard. That's always going to be hard for me.

Yeah.

What I went through.

Yeah. I can relate to that. That's. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Because that's. I mean, that really is what.

And I hate this word, but that's. For lack of any other better word to use. That's what triggered all of a lot of my mental health stuff that I've been shifting through is when I lost my mom. And kind of. We didn't. When I lost her, we weren't on good terms. It's a mind fuck.

I just wish mine. Happy Mother's Day. Sure. Try and talk to her. And she wouldn't even answer me. She'll talk to my son. He just went down to her, seen her for a few days. But he come back to him, like, said they look bad.

Yeah.

Like that she'll be dead.

It's hard for him to see that.

You know, we're on bad terms. And like, it's. I felt like the mother's love that I had is not what I'm able to show other women. Like the little bit of, like, motherly love that I have that I know how to show a little bit of my grandmother.

Yeah. Same.

You know. And she was my rock.

Yeah.

She'd been dead for 13 years now in just a few weeks, like I said. Right around my birthday.

Yeah.

So, you know, she was the rock of the family.

Yep. Same grandmas have that, you know, My grandma was fucking tough, man. She. She raised all nine kids of her. Of her. All the nine kids on her own. And she lost her husband very early on. They were army family.

Anyway. So she never had a career. She never finished her education. You know, so she was the local caretaker. She was the local waitress, cook, you know, in the diner.

Mama was just a local legend. My momma, like, she was very old. I lost my paw Paw when I was young. I didn't even really get to know him. I was young. He was early 90s, dies of Alzheimer's.

That's what we lost my grandmother to. That's a rough disease.

Yeah. It's all I can remember is him forgetting stuff.

Yeah.

But he would bounce me on his knee.

Yeah.

That's all I remember. Just him making me giggle.

Yeah.

I was young.

I love those kind of memories that you can latch on to like that. Because you literally said that out loud. And I can feel it in my brain.

Yeah. Like, it makes me giggle now.

Yeah. It was so fun. And, like, sliding down their legs.

He was a good, good man. You know, mamas, even when she died, like, they told her they might be able to give her another year or so. Chemo couple, maybe five, went well. And she literally looked at us and was like, no, I'm good.

Yeah. I've lived my life.

Yeah.

Just as I did my job, nonchalant as possible. That was my grandma.

Nothing. I was like. It flabbergasted me. But to sit and look at it now, I was like, she went out like a gangster like that.

Yeah, she did.

That's the. If it come to it in life, they made my choice. If they ever tell me that again and I'm on that time, I'll do the same thing. Watching how strong she said it and was like, I want to go see paw.

Yeah. She was ready.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And she went out on her own terms. If you're saying you're gonna die and you say that, you wouldn't want to go out on your own terms, I would say you're lying 100%. If you're able to just sit and make a choice and look at your family and the people you love around you and be like, well, I'm a dial my own terms. I would say that that's a win.

Yeah. And, you know, not to go down another rabbit hole here. And it's controversial. And I always, like, worry when I have. When I share these personal opinions with my listeners, because I know a lot of them don't share the same ones as me. And that's okay. We can all disagree or agree to disagree. But that's where another facet of recovery comes into play for me and with religion is, you know, the idea that now these businesses exist who come in.

And essentially it's a hospice, but it's not ran by the government, but they'll help you die in a dignified way. And it's so controversial with religion, especially of, you know, that's not God's way. You're going to hell if you choose to do that. And I'm like. I'm like, man, get out of here. Because if I have the options to die a peaceful death, I'm gonna take that.

The one that. The one that got it started was in the court whenever. Just a few years, I kept up with that.

Yeah, dude's name.

But. And they finally let him. But I was in my head, this, like, the case he was making in court. He was like, how can you tell me that? I've got. He had just had a few months left.

Yeah.

And it's going to be the. Because he had whatever disease was going. Hurting as we had a horrible day and. And not be able to go out on my own by that medicated doctor in my house. And they ended up still not letting the doctor do it. He went home and did it himself.

Yeah, right.

Let's let him do this.

Yep.

I was like, man, and we shouldn't.

Have to fight for that. Right? We really shouldn't. Because, you know, I mean, if.

If it's. There's no other way and you're making a choice, your family's okay with it. I don't understand what shouldn't be an issue.

I agree 100%. You know, to share a little bit of how fucked up my family is. Again, I don't share a whole lot of this on the podcast, but, you know, my uncle, my last remaining uncle, he's a piece of crap. He really is. He's always been. He's never held a job. He's never been a good dad to his. He never had drug problems or anything.

He just. He's just always been a loser, for lack of any other way to put it. And, you know, he decided he wanted my aunt who was dying. Well, her trailer looks real nice out there. I've never owned my own house. When she dies, if I take care of her, who's gonna get that? Me. You know? So he decides to take her in, and we get her in hospice, and we're doing all the things we're supposed to do as a supportive family, trying to have her have this dignified death. And he's bringing her alcohol and cigarettes into the hospice house.

The two things you're not allowed to have, which seems kind of silly to me if you're in hospice, like let people have what the fuck they want to have to go peacefully. But she, so she gets kicked out of the program, you know, not once but twice. And so he takes her home and she was given just a couple months, which we didn't think she'd make it that long, which she didn't. But this asshole shoots a video of her taking her last breath and shares it to all of us in the family before, you know, the funeral home has even come and got her body. And I'm like, what a piece of shit. Like I, like I've never had so much anger in my life.

That right there, I don't even know.

Like he took every shred of her dignity away.

That would.

I haven't spoke to him. When I see him, if I see him, I hope I don't, I really, I don't know how I'll handle myself.

Yeah, I was a violent man for a long time and like when it comes to family, that's probably the only thing left in the world that I'll be violent over. Like, I don't fight people no more. Like you literally gotta put your hands on me and I can't cage fought, boxed. Yeah, Spend a lot of time. Can handle myself for the best of them.

Right.

15 years in prison.

I mean, I'm five foot nothing. I don't know how much I can handle myself. But I may come unglued Your family.

Yeah, it don't matter. You're still flipping that switch.

Oh man. I just think it's such a disgusting thing. But you know, I think as Appalachians we have to share these stories. The good, the bad, the ugly. Because if not we really can't heal.

And sugar coating what's going on here.

That's true.

Not relating to half the people out here. You're not broadening the audience. You're not. Because if you're not relating to what's really going on around here, you're not going to be speaking to nobody but a few people.

Right.

Because everybody around here has been affected by this stuff. Yeah, everybody.

Yeah.

I don't care if it's the judges, the good people, the people that ain't never done it, that's getting robbed, their cars broke into. If you're telling me that it is not affecting everybody in our area, then I'm gonna tell you that you live on a satellite on Mars. Y' all had the OxyContin Express right here. We used to fly out Right here and go to Florida.

Yep.

You know, this. This whole area from here to even into Beckley, like, upper end of Beckley, you know, it was all on the run. And the addiction has hit everybody. I don't care in one way or the other. You either got stuff stolen from you, your kids got so dope, somebody you know has died. The addiction has hit every part of our area.

Yeah. And, you know, and I tell that story about my uncle being the piece of shit that he is because, you know, I don't think a lot of people.

We call them good dudes nowadays. When the dude.

Good dude. I like that I might steal that.

So you don't have to say it in a bad way. Like, nah, he's a good. Wait a minute.

Yeah, hold on. Yeah, but the reason I share that is because I think specifically people who have not, and people who are lucky enough to have not been affected by the trauma in their life, they need to know that there are people like this good dude, my uncle, you know, that exists, doing these really shitty things, and then it's a mind fuck. It's like, why would you do that? I puked in my mouth. The video lasted, I think, like, 45 seconds. I made eight seconds in, and I puked in my mouth. And I was like, what a sick individual. And then I'm like, you know what? I have to, like, give myself graces. Like, I.

Cause I'm angry as fuck right now.

I'm thinking about it right now, too. So, yeah, you should realize that. What happened to him in his life.

Exactly. And that's. You know, I made that post this morning about losing my aunt. And I said, you know, I wanted to get on there because there were several people that are, quote, unquote, family that immediately run to social media to share. You know, she's dead, blah, blah, blah. First of all, her house is sitting there alone in the middle of nowhere.

Oh, there's people like us right now. I'm telling you that the worst thing they could have done used to be obituaries.

Mm.

Seeing it on there.

Yep.

You know, it's fresh.

Yep.

There. We would literally. Yeah. We'd already been there.

Yeah. So I'm like, fuck up. Number one. Like, what. What a piece of crap you are. Number two, you sent that video to me. I thought I had him blocked on social media, So I don't know. I don't know how he sent it to me.

He's blocked now for sure, but I thought I had him blocked before, but I'm like, how Disgusting. Her grandkids and great grandkids didn't even know that she had passed yet. And he's out sending this video to people and I'm like, you know, I have to remind myself to give those graces because these are the people that I grew up around. These are the people that I was supposed to look up to. And then I'm like, man, why is my brain so jumbled? Like, why do I. Why am I fighting depression the way that I am? But it's like the weight of the world is on us to kind of change the narrative for not only ourselves, but for our children. We don't want them to have that experience. We don't want them to see that ugly in the world like this man is, you know, So I just think it's so important.

And like I said in the beginning of the episode, I know this is not a typical Tri State time machine piece, but if we're going to talk about our past and our future, we can't do that responsibly if we're not sharing at all our area. The good, the bad, the ugly.

Our area's done and a lot of this stuff is affected. You see, the businesses are going, the money's gone, you know, the coal mines are not as prevalent, you know, and it's became drugs. And if it continues to go that route, then what history are you going to have to talk about?

About 100%. 100%.

We just do about that. Then even the history we've got, we forget about because there's nobody out there that either wants to hear it, talk about it because they want to sweep.

It under the rug.

Hillbillies, that's them. Hillbillies. That's the pillbillies.

And that's the thing, though. It's not since holding the positions that I've held in the city and being intertwined in social tears that I wouldn't have ordinarily been involved in. People are still, you know, doing coke like it's the 80s, like it's no big deal and they just don't talk about it. They're, you know, they're, they're thirsty. So they're going into the kitchen and everybody's getting a drink together or, you know, you know, like, what the fuck? Like it's not the pillbillies anymore. It's not the ones from just out in hall. It's, you know, the guy that's a lawyer that's representing you in court on Monday morning. Is the doctor in the er.

Like, this is not A poverty stricken problem anymore.

I work in Pittsburgh five days a week. So you know, larger cities, bigger area. But it's not as like metropolitan as like, you know, New York.

Yeah.

Detroit or some other places I've been to. It's still stretched out enough that it's still similar to being down here somewhere.

Right.

It's just more people and yeah, it's still, it's still prevalent. But you still. I've. There's like 14 of us up there. We work for U S Steel, you know, largest steel factory in the nation. Most of us are all recovering addicts. I don't got a bunch of us jobs. We're up here and change our lives doing our thing.

Yeah. I love that you're pulling people up with you.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. If they want it.

Yeah.

If they want.

They have to want it.

I don't do the nonchalant half in between. I don't care. We can fist fight in the parking lot. We can do whatever the craziness is going to be, but we're going through it together.

Yep.

And yeah. So there's a group of us now and few I may worked out. Most of them have because you got to make good choices watching them big cities function. See, you see it's more prevalent. And then you realize that people from down here, we're all different. Like all 14 of us up there are some of the hardest workers up there. And just our demeanor because you know, we're all from down here. The world for the Appalachians and you know, each ship hit is always go herd.

Yes.

Go mountaineers. Go barrette Sweet Carolinas. Always gonna be the song always. But they laugh and joke with us. It's good and it's good nature and it's fun and you realize that even though you're, you know, because they're still upper Appalachian too, they're still a lot like us. And it's good. It's good to be still four or five hours away from home.

Yeah.

And still know that this Appalachian Mount there's just something about it. Like something about it. It's home all the way down in North Carolina with my mom and him and Stu. And then it's just something about this is the water. Something in the water.

I agree 100%. I tell people all the time, you know, because I've lived all over the place. Especially when I was younger, my mom would drag me to the next boyfriend's house that she met who knows where, you know, and she always wanted to be, you know, the best mom in the world every time she got the new boyfriend. So, you know, she'd get me for a couple months until I. She was sick of me again. But I've lived all over and. And I can't imagine living anywhere else, even with the good, the bad, the ugly. This is home.

Yeah. They did try to get me to move up here, and I stay in a hotel five days a week, and I've been doing it 13, 14 months now, and no.

Right.

I will live and die in one of these hollers.

Yes.

And hopefully it's not, you know, anytime soon. But I love being the holler. Life and being close to town is cool.

Yeah.

Because I live right outside of Charleston, but I can literally walk out of my apartment and walk about 30 foot, and I'm on the side of the mountain.

Yeah.

And if I want to just take off for days, I could.

Right.

Yeah. Like, I don't want to have to walk out and have a flower pot for my front yard. That's not ever going to be my life.

Yeah. That's been a hard. You have the give and take on relationships, and that's been a hard part for me because my husband grew up, you know, in town, and I.

He's a city boy.

He's a city boy. He's a city boy for sure. Which, I mean, you wouldn't know it by his work ethic, but. So I'll give him that. But he definitely is a city boy.

I mean, there's good aspects of that.

100%. 100%. But we live in. Down near Cannon park in Westmoreland, and we have a big lot. But you can't walk out on your front porch in your underwear if you want to. Like I grew up doing, you know, you could do whatever you want. You want to have a big bonfire in the backyard, front yard, side yard, didn't matter. That's yours, and you can do it.

Yes.

You need to get rid of that old furniture. Good. Put it in a pile and light it on fire.

You know, wait for West Virginia to win. Just.

But, yeah, that's been an adjustment for me. It's very hard to navigate neighbors that are in your business. And I don't think they mean because all of our neighbors are older, which is nice because they're quiet, but they're. They're looking out for us. You know, that's my air quotes again. But at the same time, you're like, man, mind your business. I miss when nobody could be in my business because nobody's close enough to know about my business, you know.

Yeah. Back when you just had to have a mean dog.

Yeah.

You know, you far enough up to holler, you just kept calling mean dogs.

Yes.

Every single around you knew.

Yes, exactly. Or someone at the beginning of the holler was making the phone call to the one at the end of the hauler. You know, these people in this red sedan.

It'S called a holler because you holler.

Mine was too windy for that.

Nah. Yeah, they just wasn't hollering.

Or jump on the four wheeler and get to the next house.

The people going up the road in a four wheeler.

Yeah. 100%.

Maybe a three wheeler back in.

Well, yeah, I don't even want to talk about a three wheeler. Those things. I'm surprised I'm not dead from those things. Talk about a little bit if you don't care about why you chose ultimately to share your story publicly on social media.

Well, I had so many friends that was in prison, still in prison that I still talk to. I had so many people, people still out here struggling and they were reaching out to me when I hit about my year mark, you know, because it was just spotty until then, just talking about here and here. And people started reaching out when they really knew that I changed.

Because I want to know what's the secret?

I mean, I've gave.

How'd you do it?

Yeah, I gave you a preliminary of the story, but the truthful of the story is I was probably one of the worst people you've ever met in life when it comes to addiction and the things I was doing. And everybody knew it from how high I got to what I was doing in life. Police knew it, my family knew it. I was labeled as one of the most violent criminals in the state at one time, even while I was locked up, all this. So when I kept having to. To tell people and tell people that I changed my life. I changed my life. I changed my life.

I got tired of having to tell because that was my whole life. It was 40 years of everybody. I knew that this is what they knew about me.

They had that narrative already planted.

It wasn't a narrative, it was the truth. That was just the way it was when I hit that wall in the hospital and I realized that I was going to have to change almost every aspect of the people, places, things, what I was doing.

Yeah.

And I got tired of having to explain to everybody separately, individually.

Yeah.

And I think that's still the reason why I continue. Because it's like people now, people are just waiting for me to fall apart because, like, no way you come out of doing murders and mayhem to making it in the world. They say it's just not possible.

And you're living proof.

Here's what I'm gonna continue to do, is just show them that simple thing my dad used to tell me. Whether there's a will, there's a way.

Absolutely.

If you wanted to get up and get high in the morning, you had the will to get high. You was going to get high today. That's what I've had to realize.

Yeah.

Got to make choices every day still. I still fight demons every day. Don't say I don't. But I'm not a needle junkie. I'm not a heroin addict anymore. I'm not a meth addict anymore. And I get up and go to work every day. And I'm still learning how to be a good father.

I'm still learning how to be a father to my daughter because I never in her life. Me and her mom was both addicts. And it's just let people know that the struggle is real. And matter of fact, the struggle is probably harder now than it was when I was getting high. I probably struggle more now than I.

See that in life.

And people don't like hearing that because they're like, you're doing great. And every time I get said that, I thank them and I'm like, yeah. But then I give them the truth. The struggle now is realer than I, because I could always run for, like, go back to prison. I could just hit the streets again. I could do this, I could do that. That's the easy way out. I lived like a king in prison.

I was. I was.

I just respected and, yeah, I just aspect. Yeah.

Being inside and out here, you know, in the beginning, that's the main thing I had to get out of my head is like, you're living like a peasant, is how I felt. And then I realized I was like, well, that's really about the best life. I mean, I'd never done none of this. 40 years. I'd never held down a real job. I'd never lived a real life. So now the normalcy is like, what.

I crave is a solace in it.

Just. Yeah. Just being normal. Being out there, just trying to. Trying to learn to be a normal person. And it's a learning curve for me because, like, I feel like I just hit puberty.

I get that.

Relationships.

Yeah.

Dealing with my family, dealing with friends, dealing with my kids. Like, sometimes I gotta stop and be like, listen, I know y' all feel like I'm this old, but realize that I went from 15 to locked up. Back out.

Yeah.

Back in and out for 15 years of my life, you know, my time in there. And then in the middle of all this, I was a drug addict.

Yeah.

I just decided to do all this shit two years ago. I know I'm 40 years old, but really, it's me going back to 15, because them 30 years in there, 25 years in there, are just a blur of chaos. And so when you get to sharing that stuff, people still, I can't beat it. It can't be done. You can't do it. And I'm telling you, if you want it bad enough, it can be. You hit the rock bottom. For real.

Yeah.

And that's why. That's why I share as much as I do. My dad tells me I should overshare sometimes, and I've dumbed it down. But there for, you know, six, eight months. Like, I told the whole story out there. Like, if people go back and actually read my post, it's just talking about everything, you know, from. From the prison to my mom to just being with my kids, not being with my kids, trying to figure life out. Like, I ran it down to him.

I was like, you know, I can't tell you what to do. Let me tell you here. Here's the what not to do.

Yeah, I know that part.

I'm gonna give you what not to do.

Yeah.

Because what not to do was this. Because I did it and it don't work.

Yeah.

And I think I just continue to post so the journey is seen.

Yeah.

So there's just some aspect of somebody's life they can look at and be like, he ain't perfect. He's honest, but he is far from what they swore he was going to be his whole life.

Yeah. I think that's a big thing that I struggle with is especially, like, when I go back out into, like, East Lynn and Wayne, everyone's all like, you're sivy's daughter, blah, blah, blah. And they've got this preconceived notion of what it must be like. And then, you know, what are you doing nowadays? And you tell them, well, I do this. This is my job, and I have these two children, and this is what they do. And it's like the look of shock on their face that like. Like, what? You don't. You don't live out here.

No wonder I don't see you. Like, you live in Huntington. Like, what. What Are you doing out there? You know?

Yeah, I can do it. When I tell people now that I ain't seen them from forever, cuz just happened yesterday.

Yeah.

I seen somebody I had seen some years, and last time I seen him, it was no good time. And they immediately, like, soon as they see me, hey, how you doing? A lot better. Like, don't worry, I'm doing a lot better too. This is a person that I met in a. In a moment in the middle of the street one day that just. People could have died. Bad situation. Drug deal gone bad.

And at the moment, I was gonna kill him. And I made a choice that day not to. And I seen him yesterday for the first time since then, and I sat down, made amends with him, talked to him, give him a number to call a girl. I know about getting a job.

Yeah. And that's like the narrative. That's what I was gonna say. That's all we can do, is make the amends where we can. Because not everybody is gon take it. Some of them don't hear it, but the ones that do, it's nice for them to see that side of you that they didn't expect. It's almost like that shock factor is everything in the moment. You're like, yeah, yeah.

It shocked the world because he told me he was struggling, and he was like, he wants to box him, but he's getting sober in his own way. Good for him. But he wasn't on the time as the last time I seen him, he was on different time. And I could tell, look better, acted better, just like I do now.

Yeah.

So when I seen him, I just immediately wanted to apologize and talk to him and be like, you know, bad choice. Wishes was made that day, but no lives were lost. So here I am. And, yeah, like, what's going on in your life? I started talking to him and he was like, damn, you really have changed. And I was like, yeah. And then I got him in contact, and I don't go any farther than that. I give him the options and the outs to talk to people because people trust me now. And I send him to a girl that'll give him a job, and it's like, delivery place.

It's rewarding to give them the opportunity to build those bridges, whether they do build the bridge or not. You've laid the first board and put an L in it and said, here's the way. Here's the step you can take.

Yeah. The girl I was seeing, like me and her was fighting, and I was. Went up to her house. Just like the next day, we got a fight because her brother was coming. Her brother's bad office. I was probably need surgery, about to die, swelled up. And he was talking about wanting to go to rehab. So immediately I write to him.

I saw people write to him. I called people down here. I called people in Parkersburg, getting those.

Connections lined up for him if he was ready.

And. And then he was like, well, my girl wants to go, too. You know what? Let me cut you real quick.

Yeah.

I call California. So I give him the option, Right. Then give him the info, all the stuff.

Yeah.

Like, he still ain't win. He ain't ready. But, yeah, shout out to him. Hopefully, you know, they might listen to this and he'll realize that, you know, there's better things out there.

Yeah.

You know, if it ain't him, somebody else will hear it. But there's couples rehabs. There's. No matter what choice you want to make, it's there. The help is there in one way or the other, and then it'll get you strong enough to get on your feet. And I just say they're stepping stones. A lot of people are using them as outs when they're really just a stepping stone. The next step is to really get really sober.

Then get your life right, and then get your head right. It's just a step. A lot of them are. The goal is just to be sober.

Yeah.

And if your goal is just to be sober, well, you're still a piece of. You're still a piece of work most of the time.

Yeah.

Getting sober don't make you a better person.

I agree with that.

Yeah. Getting sober does not make you a better person.

I agree with that 100%.

Getting sober just makes you sober.

See, that's kind of the boat that I'm in with the gentleman I was telling you about that got baptized. I don't know him real, real well. I met him through other people, and I love his energy and I love where his head seems to be at. But he's got. I mean, the rap sheet, man. Like it. It makes you. Because he's very early in his recovery.

Walk, you know, 55 arrests.

Yeah. So it does. Especially having children in your home.

Probably not. If he's been in trouble, I probably won't.

I'm sure, I'm sure. I'm sure. But he seems wonderful. And I bet before the dark times in his life that he probably was a wonderful kid and a great guy. But you see his rap sheet, and you're like, man, he's so early in his recovery journey. At any point, like I was talking about in that church with all those people, at any point they could see, you know, a ring on someone's finger or the offering plate being passed around.

Don't be the one to put that negative.

Well, you.

You just listen. That is the common thing.

You. You can't. You can't be my naive when you're dealing.

Yeah, well, that's just knowing what the possibility is. Yeah, but it's also knowing that you could go out here and get in a car wreck right now.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

The narrative that needs to change is he making amends. This is how you feel.

See, and that's what I worry about. That's where he seems to be clinging to the people who are naive and see the best in everybody.

He's not making amends.

He's not going around and going outside that comfort circle at all.

He's getting sober to get sober. Just realize that you'll know when they hit that point. That's how people knew. With me, there was a difference because six to seven months is when the hard time comes. Instead of, like, relapsing and letting it hard time, I made a choice that was like, well, if I'm a struggle to still stay sober, then I need to figure out a better way to live and to function. And the only thing I could come up with was it was time to make amends for all the bad shit I did.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's what I try to tell them I was like, you know, and it's unpopular opinion, too. It's another one that's going to be rough. Felt if you got sober just to get sober and not fix in your head what caused that and then not fix what you made happen in other people's lives.

Other people's lives. Yeah.

You made a whole ripple effect with your addiction. No matter how good or bad it was or how much you think it didn't hurt anybody else. If you're not willing to. If you're not willing to calm those waters, sooner or later, that ripple effect comes back to you.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

There's. There's. If there's not a man's made and you don't really change the person that you are, then. Then sobriety is just that.

Yeah.

You're just waiting for the next.

Opportunity, though.

Not even. Maybe not even the next problem because you're not creating positivity.

Yeah.

If you're not creating positivity, then. Then what? Are you doing? You're living like the rest of the world.

You're right. You're 100% right. I'm glad we had this conversation today. I really am. Since starting your social media journey and, you know, becoming a, you know, quote unquote, content creator, whatever they call them. Yeah, whatever. Have you received any messages or anything like that that's really stuck with you. That just kind of reiterates back to you like, I'm on the right course.

The reason why I've continued it for sure is the amount of people that I don't even know that's reached out to me over the past year. And I'm talking people I've never spoke to a day in my life. I can go in my phone right now and pull up messages page long messages of just being like, I've been watching your story, your journey, and like, how much it related to him and family members. I did a post over a homeless art dude in Charleston that went viral. His daughters reach out to me. Like, I've been trying to figure something out with getting him to help. He just got him an apartment. Wonderful artist, had health problems, drug addiction.

Being a piece of shit and not a good father, I went through it all. So those messages getting from people that I have all over the state and matter of fact, it's been. Went past that. It's multiple states now. North Carolina to one out of Michigan, one out of New York. Have wrench out just to like, I've been invited to rehabs all over the.

To speak and stuff.

Yeah. Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky. Got people everywhere now. And this is the first I've done any of this. And it's probably the start because I told myself this year, like, it was time to open up about it.

Yeah.

And that on my hardest days, it's like that's when they come through.

Yeah.

It's like when I'm having the hardest moment. I swear, it's like the universe says, got something for you.

That's. We were. Yeah, we were talking about, like, how we. How I told you that I believe in signs 100%. You know, with. With the GPS taking you, you know, to the old dope house, you know, and that's never happened before, ever. Yeah. No, I believe you.

I believe you 100%. But it's almost like it was like let. It was something saying, let me put you in this right headspace, Adam. Like this. This is where you're supposed to be. You're supposed to be sharing that story today.

I giggled. Yeah. And I Saw her immediately, like, yeah, it's. There's no coincidences in life.

Yeah. I believe that 100%.

There's no coincidence, coincidences. Everything in life happens for a reason.

Yes. I wholeheartedly believe that. What would you say to someone that's still struggling today? That would be like your first advice to them that is struggling mentally with their addiction.

You're always going to struggle, even when you're not an addict.

Yeah.

And you're going to have to learn coping skills and you're going to have to learn how to love yourself are the first two things. And those two things transcend all the way everything and through and through till your death. And if you can't find a way to love yourself, then you'll never be able to give anybody any other type of love. And if the hardest thing in the world to do because you're not really taught how to love yourself growing up. Yeah, you're taught how to love other people, but when is anybody. I really don't care. You're taught how to love everything in life but yourself. And then when you become an addict and you start struggling, the one thing you need more than anything is to know how to love yourself.

You weren't given those tools.

That becomes the problem. And if you're still struggling, well, just know you're always going to struggle. But the struggle should always be forward, not backwards.

Ooh. Solid advice. It's really good advice. Really, really good advice. What would you say to families that are watching someone struggle?

Tough love hurts, but stop enabling them. Don't give up, but stop enabling.

Yeah.

And that was. That's a hard pill for me to swallow because I've had to realize that I had a lot of tough love and a lot of enabling. And enabling them is killing them. It's not fixing them, it's not helping them. And sometimes it takes a really rough moment. It did me here. You got five days left to live. Nobody's here.

Your family's not coming. Nobody wants to talk to you. Nobody wants to be around you because of everything you've done in your life. And that's the tough love I got.

Yeah.

And.

It'S the reality check you needed. Yeah.

We're all hard headed. We're Appalachian.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Appalachian Americans.

Absolutely, absolutely. Is there anything else that you want to share with the audience that we haven't talked about? Anything that's heavy on your heart that you feel like needs to be out there?

I just want to. Whatever listeners you got out there know, not everybody was raised the Same, born the same, treated the same or understands the same or lives the same. And loving the world means love in every aspect of the world.

I like that.

Give people a chance. Because my whole life, I was a guy that you didn't want to be around. You didn't want to get caught on a dark alley with. You didn't want to have to deal with on a bad day. But my friends knew me, that knew me still to this day. I got one of the biggest hearts in the world. But if I met you on a bad note or so don't give up on the world because the rest of the world's giving up on.

That's heavy. You're right. All right, guys, I know this has been a long episode, but I hope you take the information you've set with it. You really give it some true thought. Don't use your preconceived notions about what recovery is, what addiction is really set with it. And if this resonates with you, share it with someone. If you think it may help someone get it in their hands some way, share it on social media. Everybody's got Facebook, everybody's got a phone now.

Everybody. So there's no excuse. I'm not saying share it because I want the shares. The shares, I mean, they're great. If you're trying to make money. I don't make money here. This is for me to tell these Appalachian stories. That's what I feel like my calling has been with this podcast.

So get it into the hands or the ears of anyone that you think needs to hear this. And we appreciate you guys. Adam, I appreciate you making the drive down. Absolutely. No, absolutely. Thank you for spending your time with us and spending your New Year's Day telling your story. I really think it's going to be impactful and I think, like we've talked about many times, if this makes a difference in one person's life, then we've. We've been successful.

Yep. Absolutely. Alright, guys, we appreciate you. We love you. Always. And we are out of here.