Roger LeLievre is the owner, publisher, and editor of "Know Your Ships" which is now in it's 65th publication. They discuss Roger's passion for ships and the shipping industry, how he inherited the responsibility of publishing the Guide from its original author, Tom Mance, as well as his mission to keep the maritime enthusiasm alive among a younger generation. The conversation includes stories of interesting vessels and anecdotes, depicting Roger's path from being a boat nerd to a recognized figure in the maritime industry. Roger also details his efforts to keep the "Know Your Ships" Guide relevant and engaging.
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Ships have a history just like anybody else does.
2
:People are curious when
they see them floating by.
3
:Where are they coming from?
4
:Where are they going?
5
:It's a little world
going by you out there.
6
:And all those people on those boats and
on the shore that make those boats go.
7
:They all have stories.
8
:And the story of the ship is
important, but the stories of the
9
:people are twice as important.
10
:Cliff Duvernois: Hello everyone, and
welcome back to Total Michigan, where
11
:we interview ordinary Michiganders
doing some pretty extraordinary things.
12
:I am your host, Cliff Duvenois.
13
:And once again, I'm up in God's
country, up here in Sault Ste.
14
:Marie.
15
:And one of the things that I've
discovered is, in my adventures
16
:running around Sault Ste.
17
:Marie and capturing some really
great stories up here, every place
18
:I go seems to have this one book.
19
:And when I asked some people
about it, they were like,
20
:obviously you are not a boat nerd.
21
:Which I didn't even know was a thing,
but apparently it is a huge thing.
22
:And there's people who just love this.
23
:And I sought out the author and
he's kind enough to give us some
24
:time today to talk about his book.
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:And you probably have heard this
before, but it's called Know Your Ships.
26
:So with that being said, ladies and
gentlemen, please welcome to the show.
27
:Roger LeLever.
28
:How are you?
29
:Roger LeLievre: am absolutely great.
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:Thank you.
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:Cliff Duvernois: Roger,
where are you from?
32
:Where did you grow up?
33
:Roger LeLievre: I'm I'm Sault Ste.
34
:Marie, Michigan.
35
:I grew up here, went to college
here, for my first year.
36
:I spent my summers with my grandparents
in this very cottage that we are
37
:sitting and talking to you today
on the banks of the beautiful St.
38
:Mary's River.
39
:Cliff Duvernois: And talking
to you today you go to college?
40
:Roger LeLievre: I went to
Central Michigan university.
41
:Where did you study?
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:Journalism.
43
:I got a degree in journalism in 1977.
44
:And went on to work at the Ann Arbor
News and I spent thirty years there.
45
:Cliff Duvernois: I What made
you want to get into journalism?
46
:Roger LeLievre: I think it's in my blood.
47
:I, during those tests that they have
when they check out to see what should
48
:be, what should be when you grow up.
49
:Yeah, you know those things.
50
:I scored really high in language
in the arts and really dismally in
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:anything to do with science or math.
52
:So that was pretty clear.
53
:one of my favorite toys growing up was
a little, uh, toy printing press where
54
:you had little pieces of rubber type.
55
:And you set them and
made it cranked a little.
56
:There was such a thing and I loved it.
57
:I loved it.
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:I took some printing classes in college.
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:I took some in high school.
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:And when I was still in high
school, I actually started
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:working for the Sault Ste.
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:Marie paper as, as what we
called it back then, a stringer.
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:So I would cover some of the high school
events with pictures and photographs.
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:Yeah, and in high school
I was the yearbook nerd.
65
:Photographer for the yearbook.
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:We had a beautiful darkroom,
which was also my locker, my
67
:lunchroom, my hangout place.
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:So, definitely, definitely
in the nerddom thing there.
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:So, boat nerd, high school yearbook nerd.
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:Cliff Duvernois: Well ok so that
leads to the next question is
71
:how did you become a boat nerd?
72
:Roger LeLievre: Now, therein lies a tale.
73
:Cliff Duvernois: Ooh, good.
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:Roger LeLievre: I love to say to people,
I'm just a boat nerd like you guys.
75
:I'm just the luckiest one, the
luckiest boat nerd in the world.
76
:Right.
77
:And I can tell you how that came about.
78
:And it's really my life story
and how things interacted.
79
:Courses my life took over the years When
I was a little kid, like five or six
80
:years old, it was Father's day coming up.
81
:And my grandfather worked on the
coal docks here on the river, putting
82
:coal on the freighters for fuel.
83
:What if we get gramp for Father's day?
84
:And we thought, maybe we'll get
him some pictures of some of
85
:the boats to put on the walls.
86
:And my mother knew about
this guy in Sault Ste.
87
:Marie, whose name was Tom Mance.
88
:And he was a photographer.
89
:And he sold pictures of boats.
90
:And he published a book
called Know Your Ships.
91
:So my mom called him up.
92
:And we went to his house and
sat around the kitchen table.
93
:And he was pulling out these boxes of
photos that he had developed himself
94
:in his own darkroom in the basement.
95
:How cool is that?
96
:I was hooked.
97
:I, clearly I was six
years old maybe, seven.
98
:and he sensed my interest.
99
:And so we got the pictures
from my grandfather.
100
:And Tom and I became friends.
101
:He taught me how to take pictures.
102
:He taught me how to develop
them in the darkroom.
103
:How to file the pictures.
104
:He got me a job first of all in high
school as a tour guide on this museum
105
:freighter we have here in Sault Ste.
106
:Marie called the Valley Camp.
107
:That he ran in addition to his book.
108
:And then he got me a job on the
freighters the summer I turned 18.
109
:What'd you do on the freighters?
110
:I worked for a freighter owned
by the Ford Motor Company.
111
:And we carried eight passengers
on, on board the ships.
112
:They were guests of the
company, big wigs, executives.
113
:And, you know, Ford with his vertical
integration wanted to own everything.
114
:Yes.
115
:And he owned a fleet of ships to
bring his raw materials into Detroit.
116
:Cliff Duvernois: Oh my
goodness, I never knew that.
117
:Roger LeLievre: I worked on
that ship for the summer.
118
:I was called a passenger porter.
119
:Because we carried those
passengers, those guests.
120
:So, I was kind of like the galley slave.
121
:Really?
122
:I carried, really, I carried all their
luggage up from down on the dock.
123
:I made their beds.
124
:I scrubbed their bathtubs.
125
:I made sure there was enough ice at night
for all their many, many, many cocktails.
126
:So this is like a cruise ship.
127
:It was like, for them,
it was a cruise ship.
128
:For me, it was work.
129
:Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
130
:so I did work on the freighters.
131
:And I, it was good, because I
wanted to know if I liked it,
132
:because I thought I might make a
career out of that kind of thing.
133
:But I was also interested
in journalism as well.
134
:So I spent that summer on the freighter.
135
:And I liked it.
136
:But it didn't hook me.
137
:The way I thought it might.
138
:It just didn't hook me.
139
:I was promised a job back the
next season, if I wanted it.
140
:So, I got off.
141
:And I'm going to college and I'm
working a little bit for the Sault Ste.
142
:Marie paper.
143
:And the editor, a fatherly fellow
with the long, long mane of hair that
144
:looks like an editor should look,
put his arm around on my shoulder and
145
:says, Roger, I got a deal for you.
146
:If you don't go back on the boats next
year, I'll guarantee you a job all
147
:through college, all your vacations,
all your breaks, your internship.
148
:If you'll just not go back on the boats.
149
:how can I turn that down, right?
150
:You know, I left the lakes.
151
:However, the lakes never really left me.
152
:Ooh, you were hooked.
153
:You know, I was hooked, you know.
154
:I grew up taking pictures of
the boats out here on the St.
155
:Mary's River from my little boat and
reading about the lakes and all that.
156
:And here I am in journalism school.
157
:And I'm figuring out ways about how
I can write stories about boats.
158
:Yes.
159
:Some of my high school term papers
or whatever were about boats.
160
:The impact of winter
navigation on the Great lakes.
161
:Uh.
162
:I go away to, to Central.
163
:And I'm the student
professional photographer
164
:there for information services.
165
:So I cover all the football
games and all that stuff.
166
:Guess what that gets me?
167
:A beautiful darkroom.
168
:Yes.
169
:again, I'm continuing to foster
the interest in photography
170
:and hone my skills in that.
171
:Then I went to work for the Ann Arbor
News, which, you know, is a half hour
172
:from the Detroit River or a little more.
173
:And I spent quite a bit of time
convincing my editors that there was
174
:a story going on over in Detroit about
boats that they should write about.
175
:So I got sent to Detroit to cover
Jacques Cousteau when he was in town.
176
:What?
177
:With his Calypso going down
to the Edmund Fitzgerald.
178
:I went over to Dawson Great Lakes Museum.
179
:I did a story about the museum.
180
:I did anything.
181
:Passenger ships coming
back to the Great Lakes.
182
:I wrote about all that kind of stuff.
183
:I couldn't get away from the ships.
184
:I couldn't work on the ships.
185
:But I could sure write about the ships.
186
:And I did it as much as I could.
187
:Um, so, I spent a lot of time in
my working years at the Ann Arbor
188
:News conniving ways to put together
enough vacation time, comp time,
189
:holiday time, weekend time, to
get enough cobbled together so I
190
:could come up here to Sault Ste.
191
:Marie to spend some
time or, or chase boats.
192
:Uh, Someplace else on the Great
Lakes over down to the Welland
193
:Canal, up to Duluth, over to
Wisconsin, just, that's what I did.
194
:It worked.
195
:Cliff Duvernois: It's not that
you're just writing about a boat.
196
:but you're focused on the
story that goes with it.
197
:Where did you think
about marrying those two?
198
:Roger LeLievre: Right from the beginning.
199
:When I was still at Central and getting
my journalism and photography degrees,
200
:I was stringing for the Saginaw News,
the Bay City Times, and a publication
201
:called the Upper Peninsula Sunday Times.
202
:And I was trying to figure out what I
could write about, the stories I could
203
:tell that would make people who read
those newspapers and those editors making
204
:those decisions, to want to buy those
stories from me as a freelance writer.
205
:And you have to come at that, that
kind of story with the approach
206
:of what makes this interesting?
207
:Why is this more than
just a hunk of steel?
208
:And you get into their story
and they have personalities.
209
:Ships have a history just
like anybody else does.
210
:People are curious when
they see them floating by.
211
:Where are they coming from?
212
:Where are they going?
213
:What are they carrying?
214
:They're so quiet when they go by.
215
:Who's on there?
216
:Those are the kinds of questions
I kind of like to try and ask.
217
:Or answer.
218
:It's a little world
going by you out there.
219
:And all those people on those boats and
on the shore that make those boats go.
220
:They all have stories.
221
:And the story of the ship is
important, but the stories of the
222
:people are twice as important.
223
:And that's what I try to marry together
then and now and all the stuff that I
224
:do with Know Your Ships and the stories
I put in there is people want to know
225
:the answers to some of these questions.
226
:what, what's up with all those boats
going by that are painted bright yellow?
227
:Well, that's a fleet of ships from
the Netherlands that's carrying
228
:windmill parts into the Great Lakes.
229
:They're, They're, yellow and all
their names start with happy.
230
:Happy Ranger, Happy Rover, Happy River.
231
:Now see, you wouldn't know that
if you saw that boat go by.
232
:But, somebody told me.
233
:I was able to figure it out and
put it together and that turned
234
:into a story in Know Your Ships.
235
:And now people know, as Paul Harvey
used to say when I was a kid, and
236
:now you know the rest of the story.
237
:And I was hooked on
Paul Harvey, by the way.
238
:Yeah,
239
:Cliff Duvernois: Still I find his stuff
on YouTube all the time and listen to it.
240
:Roger LeLievre: He did a
marvelous job of of storytelling.
241
:Yes.
242
:Very influential person he is.
243
:Cliff Duvernois: for our audience,
we're going to take a quick break and
244
:thank our sponsors when we come back.
245
:We're going to talk about how Roger
got involved with Know Your Ships
246
:and how he's absolutely been able
to take it to a whole new level.
247
:We'll see you after the break.
248
:Are you enjoying these amazing stories?
249
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250
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251
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:Hello everyone and welcome back to
Total Michigan where we interview
266
:ordinary Michiganders doing some
pretty extraordinary things.
267
:I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
268
:We're continuing our conversation with
the I guess I'd say the king of the board
269
:nerds and that would be Roger LeLievre.
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:Roger, mentioned before about
Tom Mance and about how he
271
:actually started Know Your Ships.
272
:Now, how did you get connected with him
and start working with him on the Know
273
:Your Ships books that are coming out?
274
:Roger LeLievre: that's
an interesting question.
275
:Here's the thing is, none of this
would be here today without Tom Mance.
276
:And he was a guy who worked as a
machinist at the power plant, the
277
:big hydro plant here in Sault Ste.
278
:Marie.
279
:And where his office was, or
his shop, looked right over the
280
:boats going by in Sault Harbor.
281
:And somewhere along the line he got
the idea that maybe a little guidebook
282
:or a little directory to the boats
would be something people would like.
283
:But he came out with this little
book called Know Your Ships.
284
:It was 44 pages, uh, in 1959.
285
:And he did all the work in his basement.
286
:He had a big drafting table down
there, and he had a darkroom,
287
:and had bunches of file cabinets.
288
:And he'd go down there.
289
:And he'd work at it.
290
:And he came up with this book.
291
:In 1959, the shopkeepers along
Portage Avenue there by the locks,
292
:they didn't see the value in that.
293
:They didn't think anybody
would want to buy that book.
294
:Tom would not be stopped.
295
:So he went out and he got some high
school and junior high school kids and
296
:gave him those old fashioned carpenter's
aprons with the pockets and some money
297
:in one pocket and the book in the other.
298
:And they sold them to the tourists
leaving the locks through the park gates.
299
:Well, the shopkeepers saw that and saw
all those books being sold and all of
300
:a sudden they were in those gift shops.
301
:Seeing is believing.
302
:Seeing is believing.
303
:And, Sault Ste.
304
:Marie is my number one outlet
today, which is not surprising.
305
:Number one area of sales.
306
:Tom could sell anything.
307
:He was a born salesman.
308
:He loved to get in his car and
drive someplace with books in
309
:his trunk and just, as he would
just say, sell, sell, sell.
310
:Took his family on vacations.
311
:Where did they go?
312
:They went where the boats
were so he could sell books.
313
:Sure.
314
:So I met Tom Mance when I
was about six years old.
315
:And my mom knew this
guy here in Sault Ste.
316
:Marie that sold boat pictures
and published this book
317
:about, about the boats.
318
:We wanted to buy my grandfather
some boat pictures for Father's day.
319
:So we went to his house
to look at pictures.
320
:He sat around the old kitchen table there.
321
:And he brought out these boxes
of photos from his darkroom.
322
:And I paged through them, and boy,
I tell you, I was really into it.
323
:I was really into it.
324
:I was into it before then.
325
:But something clicked,
really, with those pictures.
326
:Pretty soon I was on the phone.
327
:Mr.
328
:Mance, can I come over
tonight and make pictures?
329
:I'm sure he was absolutely delighted
to hear that, that call come in.
330
:I was under 12 in that period.
331
:So I'd wander over.
332
:He lived pretty close to us there.
333
:I go down in his basement.
334
:We shared his office and his
little darkroom and like his
335
:wife's washer and dryer and sink.
336
:You know back in the old days
you had to wash your film and
337
:your pictures of the chemicals.
338
:So we'd have to make sure his wife
wasn't gonna do a load of laundry
339
:because we needed the water water.
340
:So he so he taught me how to do all that.
341
:He'd pick me up and say hey, let's
go see what boats are coming.
342
:Pretty soon I was taking my own pictures.
343
:And he put a couple of them in his book.
344
:Cliff Duvernois: You must
have been very excited.
345
:Roger LeLievre: I was, I was very excited.
346
:I think I had my first picture in the
book in:
347
:I was real little.
348
:so I was just, I was taking
my own bull pictures.
349
:So Tom taught me those skills that
brought me forward into my later life.
350
:and helping him on Know Your
Ships, I think also triggered
351
:something, in me, because I did
pursue a career in journalism.
352
:So I would help him with Know Your
Ships over the years, you know,
353
:with photos and corrections and
design and all that kind of stuff.
354
:He, uh, got me a job on a
freighter when I was 18.
355
:So that was very helpful for me
to decide my future career path.
356
:Fast forward to 1994 at, Tom passed away.
357
:And before he did, he set things up
so that I could take over his company.
358
:And, uh, he, he didn't
charge me any money for it.
359
:He just gave it to me.
360
:That's incredible.
361
:Yep.
362
:He didn't have any idea I could do it.
363
:He had faith I could do it.
364
:And, you know, I was in
the newspaper business.
365
:I did have some of those skills.
366
:But it freaked me out because I really
felt some responsibility there that I
367
:had to carry this guy's word forward.
368
:Cliff Duvernois: Well just to put
this into context here, how long has
369
:he been doing the Know Your Ships?
370
:Roger LeLievre: it'll be our 65th year
371
:Cliff Duvernois: So then in 1994,
what he's probably 30 years into this.
372
:Roger LeLievre: Yeah, I think the 44th
or 45th edition was when he passed away.
373
:Cliff Duvernois: And at this point in
time cranking out these books every
374
:year, selling books every single year.
375
:Roger LeLievre: And working at the
newspaper until not too long ago.
376
:Cliff Duvernois: He's really built
up like a cult following, you know,
377
:around his books at that time.
378
:So I can imagine that's the
pressure on you to keep it at
379
:that, you know that high standard.
380
:Roger LeLievre: Well, and then also in
:
381
:we have now called the internet.
382
:Or a computer.
383
:I remember my first computer.
384
:I brought the book from a yellow lined
legal pad to a computer when Tom died.
385
:And if he could see how we do it
now, he would be flabbergasted.
386
:Cliff Duvernois: Yes.
387
:Yes.
388
:So when you took over the Know Your
Ships, what were some of the things
389
:that you had to keep in mind to make
sure that, that this brand would
390
:not only survive, but to thrive?
391
:Roger LeLievre: You know, I'm not even
sure I thought about that at that point.
392
:My main concern was that I'd be able
to just get the next year's book out.
393
:I didn't have any big future
vision for it at that point.
394
:Okay.
395
:I just, I just wanted to keep it going
'cause I thought it was important.
396
:I liked it.
397
:I liked the boats.
398
:I.
399
:So I found somebody, a fellow
boat watcher, that was a little
400
:more computer literate than I was.
401
:And he put all the vessel listings
kind of into a spreadsheet
402
:that I could use with the book.
403
:And guess what?
404
:I still use that same spreadsheet today.
405
:I update it every year.
406
:So thanks Phil Clayton for that.
407
:that.
408
:And his wife Angie.
409
:There's boat nerds all over the place
that have been helping me all these years.
410
:I could not do it without all these folks.
411
:But as far as the actual
book goes, my mom helped me.
412
:Believe it or not.
413
:Really?
414
:Yes.
415
:Uh, when I got the book, I was
working full time in my career.
416
:And this book got added in.
417
:And there's a lot to do behind the
scenes that no one knows about.
418
:One of the things that I do not do
well is financial part, bookkeeping.
419
:And my mother was retired
as city clerk of Sault Ste.
420
:Marie.
421
:And she knew that stuff.
422
:So she did the bookkeeping
for me for years.
423
:And she also delivered books
for me in the Sault Ste.
424
:Marie area.
425
:Because I wasn't up here at the time.
426
:Cliff Duvernois: Right.
427
:Roger LeLievre: So she was a big part of
the business, unsung behind the scenes.
428
:And that's, you know, I got better
at it, of course, as time went by.
429
:And we had new technologies
that made it a whole lot easier.
430
:But in 2008 my newspaper
career came to an end.
431
:The Ann Arbor News was closed by
the company that owned it out of
432
:New Jersey, Newhouse Newspapers.
433
:So anyway, I'm now working
on Know Your Ships full time.
434
:And I've got the internet
and I've got a car.
435
:So I start going around the Great
Lakes and knocking on doors of
436
:gift shops and what have you
saying, Hey, I got this book.
437
:And we managed to build
up our sales that way.
438
:Now we sell a lot of books, not only
through those bookstores and gift
439
:shops, but also, Oh, I've got a bait
shop, a restaurant, a couple of motels.
440
:Uh, you know, Any place that will
stick that book there where there's
441
:freighters going by, it'll sell.
442
:that it will sell.
443
:Cliff Duvernois: Reminds me of the
interview that I did with Jonathan
444
:Rand for his Michigan Chiller series.
445
:He did the exact same thing.
446
:You know, wherever he could
stick his book, he would.
447
:You're talking about, you're
coming out with a new edition
448
:of your book every single year.
449
:Yes.
450
:Why?
451
:Roger LeLievre: Because
there are changes every year.
452
:Like what kind of changes?
453
:Well, within the shipping industry,
the part of the book that I like
454
:to call the directory or the field
guide that tells all about the boats
455
:and who built them and how big and
who owns them and all that stuff.
456
:There's always changes going on.
457
:Ships are scrapped out of the fleet.
458
:New ships are built.
459
:Ships are renamed.
460
:So that's the kind of a scorecard.
461
:If you're using the book as a boat
watcher and you're sitting in your,
462
:in your chair on your deck and you're
looking out the river and you see...
463
:See the, uh, Arthur M.
464
:Anderson go by.
465
:You can pick up my book
and find out all about it.
466
:So that's a guidebook.
467
:That's data.
468
:Kind of pretty straightforward data.
469
:But there's a lot more to the book.
470
:And it's because of two things.
471
:One is I felt I needed to
expand the book out more.
472
:But the other, other reason
is there are fewer ships now.
473
:you know, one of these days there
won't be a whole lot of, much
474
:left of the listings, maybe.
475
:So you got to figure out what
to fill that space up with.
476
:What do you fill it up with?
477
:People's stories.
478
:Photos.
479
:More pictures.
480
:Photos that you, as a boat nerd, might
take somewhere and send in to me.
481
:And I'm captured by it.
482
:And I put it in the book.
483
:There's a lot of that.
484
:I get thousands of pictures every
year from around the Great Lakes from
485
:people hoping to get in the book.
486
:And that's the second component
to it that makes it all the more
487
:interesting to people is that
stuff in the back, I call it.
488
:Stuff in the Back.
489
:The Spotlight section with the stories.
490
:Uh, The section about how the locks work.
491
:The maps.
492
:Where all the ports are.
493
:What all the, uh, whistle signals mean.
494
:The smokestack markings.
495
:They're all there.
496
:Every, every fleet has a,
a stack with a logo on it.
497
:We've reproduced those
in the book as well.
498
:It's not only just the Great Lakes
but the saltwater fleets that come in.
499
:We have people like to
see the older boats.
500
:So we have a nice gallery of the
old timers in there, pictures
501
:from years and years ago with
a little bit of an explanation.
502
:There's some history in there.
503
:So I say we're where history and
industry meet is what we are.
504
:Cliff Duvernois: You've now
gotten to a point where you've
505
:actually hired help, right?
506
:So you've got these two young guys
that you've hired to come on on
507
:board and help you out with that.
508
:I'm assuming they're
internet social media savvy.
509
:Yes
510
:Roger LeLievre: in their 20s.
511
:Of course,
512
:Cliff Duvernois: so the first part
is is is you know why make that hire?
513
:And then the second question I got for
you is why is it important to reach
514
:out to younger people about the boats
Know Your Ships on that whole thing.
515
:Roger LeLievre: Off your first
question first Uh, why is it, why
516
:did I bring Sam Hankinson and Nick
Stenstrup in, that's their names,
517
:is that I'm not getting any younger.
518
:I'm, gonna be 70 in a couple years.
519
:I can't do this forever.
520
:It's important for me to
continue not only what I've done.
521
:But it's extra important
for me to continue what Tom
522
:Mance started, the legacy.
523
:I wanted to take the opportunity
now while I could, to make sure
524
:that that happens in the right way.
525
:I was handed this publication
on the guy's deathbed.
526
:I don't want that to happen again.
527
:I want to have a plan.
528
:So these two guys, one of them
actually works in the shipping
529
:industry on the shore side part.
530
:He works at a port in
Michigan, Port of Monroe.
531
:But these two guys have
a passion for it already.
532
:They understand the importance
of people's stories.
533
:If it weren't for the people,
there'd be no shipping industry.
534
:They get that.
535
:They get it.
536
:And they get it on a deep level.
537
:And also, they can write.
538
:You know, Sam's a great writer.
539
:Uh, They have great ideas.
540
:So many ideas, I can't believe
when we have idea sessions
541
:and stuff that they think of.
542
:I never would have even thought of.
543
:And that's what it's going to take to
make the business continue, is it's got
544
:to get, continue to change with the times.
545
:Like, I brought in a
computer to do the book.
546
:Well, they're going to
bring in something else.
547
:Right.
548
:Yes.
549
:They're telling me I need to
have stickers and magnets.
550
:So I have stickers and magnets.
551
:And they're selling them like crazy.
552
:So that's why it's important
to bring those folks in.
553
:And then you talked about
the other younger people.
554
:And that is a particular passion of mine.
555
:Someone, namely Tom Mance, back in
:
556
:gift of giving me his company and
sharing his talents and his skills
557
:and teaching me and bringing me along.
558
:And that's, at this stage of my life,
what is important for me to do, is share
559
:and encourage and help in any way I can
to bring the next generation either into
560
:the hobby or into the shipping industry.
561
:And I've done both.
562
:There are amazingly a large
number of young people that are
563
:really interested in all this.
564
:I often, I ask them, how did
you get interested in this?
565
:You live in Montana and you want to,
566
:Cliff Duvernois: You're
completely landlocked.
567
:Roger LeLievre: Yeah, what happened?
568
:You know, they all have
their various stories.
569
:The Edmund Fitzgerald is one big reason.
570
:But I get calls from grandmothers
that say, my little eight year old
571
:can't get enough of these books.
572
:Well, that's what I like to hear.
573
:Because they're coming into a
hobby that is an outstanding hobby
574
:with great people involved in it.
575
:Yes.
576
:there's actually a network of young,
young boat nerds, young kids that
577
:Sam, my, my heir in there, heir
apparent, he takes charge of that.
578
:And, we all keep a lookout for when
the young people come along and we
579
:say, hey, there's this, whole group
of people they're called boat nerds.
580
:And, there's this network of the
younger ones that would talk to their
581
:parents and we do whatever we can to
just bring them along, bring them in.
582
:Cliff Duvernois: There's so much more
I would absolutely love to dive into.
583
:So that just means we're going to
have to have you back on the show
584
:because there is so much depth here.
585
:We've barely scratched the surface.
586
:So Roger, if somebody is listening to
this, they want to, connect with you.
587
:They want to check out your books.
588
:What's the best way for them to do that?
589
:Roger LeLievre: We
have, uh, knowyourships.
590
:com is our website.
591
:And that's where you can order the book.
592
:You can order our new magazine.
593
:We just started this summer called
Extra yeah, we have a variety of of
594
:cool stickers and hats and magnets
and all that kind of boat nerdy stuff.
595
:Great stocking stuffers or everybody's
got a refrigerator got to have a magnet.
596
:You can find all that on knowyourships.
597
:com.
598
:There's another place you can
go is a website called boatnerd.
599
:com Which is Great Lakes Ship
Central for the internet with
600
:news and, and tracking systems and
histories of boats that go there.
601
:Cliff Duvernois: Roger, thank you so much
for taking time to chat with us today.
602
:Really do appreciate it.
603
:Roger LeLievre: Thank you, Cliff.
604
:I'll go anywhere at any time and talk
to anybody about Great Lakes ships.
605
:Cliff Duvernois: Nice.
606
:And for our audience, you can always
roll on over to TotalMichigan.
607
:com, click on Roger's interview,
and find the links there.
608
:We'll talk to you next time when we
talk to another Michigander doing
609
:some pretty extraordinary things.
610
:We'll see you then.