“You go there to learn about children — but you come back remembering who you are, and why you do what you do.”

  Harriet, Early Years Educator at Atelier

In this very special episode of Atelier Talks, we’re reflecting on our recent team study trip to Reggio Emilia, Italy: the city that inspires so much of our practice and pedagogy here at Atelier. Clare & Laura are joined by Harriet and Rosie, two of our incredible team members who have walked the cobbled streets of Reggio and returned home enriched by the experience.

Together we explore what it feels like to immerse yourself in a global community of educators and return with a renewed sense of energy and inspiration for your early years practice.

Whether you’ve visited Reggio yourself, or are simply curious about what it really means to be Reggio-inspired in a UK nursery setting, you’ll finish this episode brimming with ideas.

In this episode::

• What it’s like to step inside the Loris Malaguzzi Centre for the first time
• Reflections from the infant-toddler centres and what it’s like to observe learning in action
• Why Reggio’s approach is as much about values and culture as it is about methods
• Real stories of international connections and cross-cultural dialogue between educators
• What intelligent setups and environments that speak really look like
• How our team are already transforming their spaces with the “Reggio lens”
• What we learned about process over product, and the radical power of respect
• The ripple effect of deep learning and why we believe study tours grow entire teams, not just individuals
• Standing on the shoulders of giants

The thinking behind Atelier's pedagogy draws deeply from the Reggio Emilia philosophy and wider foundational theorists. This episode references the work of:

• Loris Malaguzzi – founder of the Reggio Emilia approach and the concept of the hundred languages of children
• Reggio Children & the Loris Malaguzzi Centre – for inspiring our architectural, social, and relational design thinking
• The Reggio Atelieristas – for reimagining creativity, representation and research in early childhood
• 
  

Find out more:

Find out more:

Website and newsletter: ateliernursery.co.uk

Instagram: @ateliernurseryltd

Consultancy enquiries: Contact us via our website

Together, we’ll unlock the potential for incredible growth and learning.

Atelier Talks is a Decibelle Creative original podcast

Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative – decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative

Keywords: Reggio Emilia UK, early years study trip, Reggio Children, Loris Malaguzzi Centre, early years inspiration, international early childhood education, Reggio philosophy, early years leadership, environment as third teacher, hundred languages, process over product, atelierista, reflective practice EYFS, intelligent environments, emotionally intelligent early years, early years consultancy UK

>> Clare: Welcome to Atelier Talks, the Early Years

Collective.

>> Clare: This is the podcast brought to you.

>> Clare: By the Atelier Nursery team, exploring the art and

science of early years education. We're here to

share knowledge and insights from our unique

research led approach. So if you're passionate

about early years education, you're in the right

place. Let's find out what's in store for you on

today's episode.

>> Clare: Hello and welcome to Atelier Talks. Today we're

very excited to be bringing you a special episode

recorded directly from our nursery and bath, where

we're joined by the lovely Rosie and Harriet.

>> Rosie & Harriet: Hello.

>> Clare: And coming to us as well, we've got Laura, who's

joining us from Chippenham as well.

>> Laura: Hello.

>> Clare: So we've asked Laura to join us today to give us

the insight of the educational platforms that's

happening at her Chippenham nursery. But we've got

Harriet and Raisie joining us today because they

are freshly back from a study tour in Reggio

Emilia. So thank you, Harriet, for joining us.

Even though you're probably slightly exhausted and

slightly overwhelmed with all of the learning

you've got going on, I'm excited. And then, Rosie,

you went to Reggio, was it, two years ago?

>> Rosie: Yeah, two and a half years ago. April 2023. So,

yeah, it was amazing. not quite as fresh in my

head as Harriet, but definitely got the core

memories of what an incredible experience. It was

brilliant.

>> Clare: And since that time, Rosie you've kind of grown in

your roles and your responsibilities at Tilio, So

you were a deputy when you first went to Reggio

and you're now one of our managers, so you're kind

of leading that provision and that Reggio

experience that our children have here at Tilio.

>> Rosie: Yeah, absolutely. It's really exciting having more

people from the team slowly joining and going to

Regio as well, and kind of building on the,

knowledge that we have really as a whole staff

team.

>> Clare: So, Harriet, take us then, for our listeners who

might not have been to Reggio, some of them might

have been to Reggio many times. Take us to that

very first moment when you arrived in Reggio

Emilia. What were your first thoughts, your first

impressions when you kind of stepped into that

city that's just immersed in children's learning?

>> Harriet: I think from the get go, you can feel how special

it is. Like, especially when we were on our way on

our first day. Like, you can feel the excitement

of everyone there who's there with you for the

study tour, but also all the Italian professionals

who are there and they're just so passionate and

it's just contagious, that kind of passion and

excitement and you can really feel there's

something special there in the town. Like it's

just really focused, on, children. But the value

of children. It has a particular culture.

>> Clare: We were talking, weren't we, Rosie? Just as this,

podcast started. And I think, Harriet, it's a

really lovely way in which you summarise that up,

that particular culture of children. Rosie did you

have that same experience? Because you were going

with Annabelle at the time, weren't you, who was

one of our, senior staff in Chippenham. And so we

were looking at that cross pollination across

sites. And Harriet, you went as well with a member

of our Chippenham team and Beth, who's one of our

leadership team. So did you have those same kind

of feelings when you walked into that city?

>> Rosie: Oh, absolutely. I think Harriet summed up really

well. There's that whole community which kind of

all has that shared excitement and love for

children and Reggio, Regio philosophy there. And

you can sense that straight away. And just being

in such a big learning community of over a

thousand people as well, from all around the world

is so exciting to be part of that.

>> Harriet: Yeah. Because everyone's there for that same

reason. They want to learn, they're really excited

and it just feels really special. Yeah.

>> Clare: So when you close your eyes and you think about

that first morning of the study tour, and I

thought what was brilliant was we set up this

like, little WhatsApp group, didn't we, before

they all left? And there was great excitement

coming in from Mia about how she was feeling

around it. Ah. And Beth was kind of, she was

organising a little bit and making sure everybody

was at the meeting point at all of the right time.

But when you kind of take yourself back in, what

was that, that kind of, that emotional reaction to

what was happening? Was there like a moment that

really stood out for you for that very first time?

>> Harriet: I think when I first walked into the conference

centre, because it's the Loris Malaguzzi Centre, I

think I was amazed by the space in general because

it's such a beautiful centre. And then when you

walk into the auditorium and you've just got that

buzzing of everyone, that was just the thing that

I was like, oh, I'm really here, I'm really doing

it. And, I just can't wait to do it. It was like,

it was just so.

>> Clare: Exciting because you both separately, obviously on

different years, applied for the opportunity. So

looking I guess, kind of looking back, because we

posed that question to the team almost a year in

advance about who would like to go. And, one of

the things that we do atelier is we don't just

kind of make that assumption for people that

they'd enjoy it because not only is it a week away

from home and their families, you know, it's quite

an intense experience. You know, there's lectures

that start from about 9:00 clock and run until 4,

4:30. you're in and out of the infant toddler

centres. There's learning opportunities that take

place into the evenings. that. It's a.

>> Clare: Isn't.

>> Clare: It's a brilliant thing, but it's a. It's a long

and intense day, isn't it?

>> Harriet: I was feeling nervous before, like, just the. That

feeling of, strangely, just whether you're going

to be able to cope with it, even though you are

excited. But it almost dissolved as soon as I

walked into the lecture hall. It was just so

buzzing that I was like, oh, no, I'm here, I'm

going to learn. I'm so excited. So, yeah, it was

great.

>> Rosie: I think it's quite reassuring being with people

that are, like minded in a way, because you know

that you're all there for the same reason. You all

care hugely about children, about pedagogy, so

you're in the right place, even though it's

somewhere new and alien to you.

>> Harriet: Yeah. And that Reggio, itself is so unique,

really, and special that even though. Even when.

If you'd met people who'd been there before and.

Or from settings who have been Reggio media for a

long time. But you also meet people who have never

heard of the approach until that year or have

never been before, who have only just started

implementing it into their settings. And then I

met people who were just there for, their own

personal. They wanted to learn as a homeschooling

parent or just to better their understanding

because they worked in a museum with children. So

it was like, lovely to see you. Just felt all in

the same boat anyway, so all my nerves, everything

just dissolved. I think it's a great place to go,

even if you are nervous.

>> Clare: I think it's something. I loved what you said

there, Harriet, is that bit about sometimes we

have to come out of that comfort zone. And that

bit about actually remembering that learning can

be really magical, but can also be quite. It can

be quite daunting. It can, you know, can provoke

lots of different emotion in us. And I think for

those of you, or for those of us that are

listening who haven't ever been to Reggio before,

you know, when you first walk in, everybody within

the town knows about the Loris Malaguzzi Centre

because it's such a central point of everything

they're doing. And so you almost feel like a real

sense of privilege, don't you, that you're there

and you're walking in and they've got this

beautiful kind of spiral, staircase that goes down

and out from the front and the greens that sit out

the side. And you kind of see everybody arriving

and everybody's got their matching tape bags and

their journals and everyone's kind of ready for it

and you walk in and raise it. Take us through when

you first walk through those doors, because it's

quite. It's quite a sensational building in its

own right, isn't it?

>> Rosie: It's a stunning space architecturally. and you get

to go in, I think for the first day we had a

little look around all the. That's kind of like

mini ateliers and, and really kind of creative

spaces that are quite inspiring around the Loris

Malaguzzi Centre. And then they've got a really,

really gorgeous gift shop full of really well

curated, beautiful books and they've got the

textbooks all about Reggio, but lots of amazing

children's books as well. So we just kept looking

in there, obviously. Spending money.

>> Clare: Yeah, spend a lot of money. Yeah.

>> Rosie: So definitely, if anyone goes, bring your own

money to spend in that lovely gift shop. But,

yeah, it's just really inspiring. And then you've

got the lovely 100 languages poem kind of on a big

installation in the centre, which is just

beautiful. So we all had our picture there

excitedly. And then you go into the actual kind of

lecture hall. Is that the word? And it's just

huge. It's just bigger than anything I'd

experienced before. When I was at uni. It was sort

of like 200 people maybe in a lecture, tops. But

it was 1,500 people and they'd have a microphone

to kind of talk to different people. And. Yeah,

obviously, yeah, the main speakers have

microphones as well. So you're just so aware.

Aware of what a huge, well, opportunity is, but

also the amount of people there. It's crazy.

>> Clare: So what did it feel like when you think about. You

know, I know when I. My last study tool, There

was, yeah, 1500 people. I think there were 48

different languages spoken amongst all of those

that were attending. So for me, not only was the

learning I was having from ratio so overwhelmingly

exciting and fabulous because we were immersed in

everything that we believe in and everything that

we want to kind of achieve. But it was also that

international community. So it was, you know, our

colleagues from New Zealand or our colleagues

from, America, or our colleagues coming in from

Europe or, you know, in from Asia, and this whole

mix and diverse community where so many educators

are working within different restraints with

different curriculums from a different political

kind of pathway. Did you. Did you manage to have

any of that engagement with any of your other

colleagues there, or was it.

>> Harriet: Yeah, I managed to actually, because at the start,

it's like Rosie said, they have. They got everyone

to stand up and read out all the different

countries and there was like a huge welcome. So

immediately you kind of felt connected to

everyone, even if they were from the other side of

the world. you felt connected and in the same

boat. So. And it was quite good because you got to

split off into different workshops and different

tours. So I ended up getting to chat to, lots of

different people from loads of different places.

And it was really nice to be. You find, no matter

what the setting, you know, and all different

curriculum, like. You said, you still had those

same. Values and you were all there for the same

reason. But it was super interesting to see. Where

everyone was working from. there's lots of people

from New York, some people from Korea. Everywhere

that I spoke to, it was really insightful to get a

glimpse of how they were working. And we. And we

would talk about what we learned that day, what we

were going to take back to our settings. And. And

they were all really interested in our setting,

actually. And it was. It was really nice to feel

really, really proud of where I work and say,

well, yeah, actually we do this. And, so it was

really nice to connect with. It's such a huge

variety. But like I say, it's. You found that you

had more in common than you had, different, no

matter what.

>> Clare: I think it's really interesting because I met a

completely, round of me. I'll be really honest, I

was feeling a bit grouch. It was like on day four,

I was already a bit exhausted, quite tired, and

ended up. We were on the buses and we were heading

out, and when we went, we weren't able to see the

settings in situ with children. So that was

something they changed for the first time since

COVID this year for you guys. and so it was kind

of at the end of the day, we got to do our school

tours after all of the Lectures had happened and

the schools had actually been closed for the day

and I was sat next to this lady on the bus and she

must have, like, she must have tried to sense my.

My kind of childishness and she was trying to chat

to me and she just sort of said, oh, you know,

where. Where are you from? So I said, oh, atelier.

And she kind of looked at me, she went, oh, no,

no, no, where, where are you from? Thinking I

meant the ateliers, in the infant toddler centres.

And I said, oh, no, we've got a nursery in Bath

and one in Wiltshire. We're called Atelier. She

just sort of fixed I seem to follow you on

Instagram. And then she pulled up our Instagram

page and she was like, I knew I did. You've got

the pottery wheels and, and you had the baby on

the sewing machine. And I was like, yeah, that's

her. And we kind of got chatting on this shared

bit and now she's actually one of the people that

I kind of follow all the time. She was working at

an international school in Asia and she's now

moved, actually she's in Vietnam now. But even

those connections, past those bits and, you know,

we met a really lovely Rachel who was in,

Australia when I happened to go back to Milan at

the weekend for lots of different other reasons

apart from studying. and I remember her sort of

saying, oh, when you're, when you're in Meiji,

when you come back, because we have to fly home by

Milan, just, you know, make sure you go down, onto

the canals and all of those kinds of memories and

those connections of the people that, you know, I

met the year before will kind of come back. It's a

special place. It's a special place for building

relationships.

>> Rosie: Absolutely.

>> Rosie: We, we're really lucky, actually. Myself and

Annabelle, we met some friends pretty much

straight away and they were.

>> Speaker D: A group of other women.

>> Rosie: One, well, one was a manager, from the uk. Well,

they're all from the uk, actually. With her,

practitioner with her. And then we had a couple of

early years lecturers from Wales, and a primary

school teacher as well. So all British are really

lovely women. And I think we were just all got on

so well, went to dinner every night together after

the lectures and schools. Yeah.

>> Rosie: So it was really full on socially for me. But it

was so nice just to have those people kind of

bounce ideas off all the time, really, and

reflect. And they were the same. They were really

kind of impressed with what we do at atelier,

wanted to come and look around. They still

haven't, actually, but exactly. So, yeah, it's

really nice to kind of still have those people as

contacts as well.

>> Clare: What about you, Laura? So you've had the lovely

Mia come bouncing back with absolute energy into

your nursery this week. Have you seen that kind of

impact from her in terms of her learning and the

opportunity that she had?

>> Laura: Absolutely, yeah. It's. It's almost. It's

immediate, isn't it? That absolute, like you were

talking about, that excitement, that passion, it's

contagious. And as soon as Mia stepped, she came

into my office this morning, she went, babes, I'm,

back. And she just got out her notebook and she

was like, look at all of this. This is what I've

learned. This is what I've been. And she was just

so proud to show me everything that she'd learned.

She was like, look how many notes I've taken. And

then I've literally spotted her all day, sat there

with her notebook and she's, like, flicking

through things, making notes, really, then

applying it to, her practise back in our nursery.

And it's just lovely to see her then starting to

disseminate that through to other staff on the

nursery floor, and share the things that she's

learned. and I loved her sending the pictures

while she was there as well. She kept sending me

photos. I'm like, it's just stunning. It's so

beautiful. I can't believe it. And it just gives

you that, I suppose, that excitement and that kind

of drive to want to make, it as beautiful as we

can and to really kind of represent our kind of

Reggio, influence in our nurseries in a really

meaningful way. and, yeah, she's just come back

full of ideas, full of energy, so excited to make

it, you know, as a Reggio inspired as you can be.

so it's, it's such a. An amazing opportunity for

them to. To kind of have a look at where it came

from and really understand the depth and the real

reason behind it. And then to come back and be

able to then apply that to, our context, our

setting, where we are and then start to, introduce

new ideas. It's beautiful.

>> Clare: I think that depth law is really, really important

because it's one of those words when, you know, I

know I felt it when I was going around the Infant

Toddler Centre, but also visitors, when they come

into our nursery and they're almost. There is

almost a sense of surprise when they can see

actually the depth of children's thinking and how

the children are really working at such a level

when. And I'm really in awe, Harriet, that you

managed to get to go into the infant, toddler

centres with children present, because we miss

that. But actually, was there a moment when you

went around that centre, that you kind of saw that

depth of thinking, that kind of like you had that

wow moment or that goosey bumps moment where you

kind of see that interaction and those. That

learning taking place, I guess, between staff and

children or children and children?

>> Harriet: Yeah, I think I felt it the whole way round. I was

very, very emotional. It was such a beautiful

setting, the one I went to. And, it had multiple

ages and I felt it the entire time. I felt so

emotional at how beautiful a space and the

learning could be. And all the children were so

engaged. And there was one room in the preschool,

area, so it was around 2, 3 year olds there. And,

they'd built this huge, intricate building of,

blocks, but it was all balanced on like two

cylindrical blocks. And then these really young

children, 2 and 3, were building it up and, there

was. These staff in the room were just super

engaged with the area they were, they were at. But

these children just kept going and they, the staff

were capturing it on a big camera. And just the

interactions between them and how those children

were fully, fully viewed as like, completely

competent as directors, as architects and they

could build it themselves. And you could see when

the child had. Because I sat there and watched on

the stage and tried to stay out of the way. But

when the children, you could see, they kind of

came across an issue like they couldn't do

something correctly. The adult was just there

enough to help them solve the problem, but help

them get to the solution themselves. And that just

comes from really, really, I think, just listening

and watching and being there in the moment with

the children that you can see what they need. And

I found that really like touching, but it existed

in every room. I went round to the other larger

space with age 4 and 5, I think children, and they

were just so engaged and so busy, but seeing what

they were doing. They were doing these intricate

little drawings and then cutting them out and then

sticking them on something else and doing it all

with an adult present. But it was just such an

exchange. Like it was just the way they were

learning was completely based on their

interactions with the materials, the environment,

with the adults around them. And it was just, it

was beautiful to watch. And then up on the stage

there was a beautiful little girl painting this

wonderful thing on the wall with a projector and

then there's also a clay table going on in the

same space. And it was all so busy, but just so.

Like, just such a beautiful exchange of, of ideas

and learning between the adults and children.

>> Clare: And you describe it beautifully.

>> Harriet: I got very, very emotional, Kiran. Like, I think I

was gonna cry.

>> Clare: I think as an educationalist, when you, when

you're able to really immerse yourself into

somebody else's work and see the impact on those

children and the impact on those children's

learning, it is emotional and I think it's

brilliant to be able to, to share that. And you

know, you dialogue that so clearly and so

articulately because it is, It's a really emotive

setting to be within.

>> Harriet: Yeah.

>> Clare: And I think when you're. You're kind of

triangulating all of the knowledge, all of the

research, all of the, all of the, all of the

training and the qualifications that we hold, but

then actually you reframe it and you're. You're

almost looking at it through the child's eyes,

through the pedagogue's eyes, through the parents

eyes, in a completely different setting, in a

completely different country with different

curricula that they're needing to follow. But

actually seeing the value and the value of

education and actually that whole relationship

basis between everybody within that setting. You

know, the va. You used that word earlier. The

values that everybody is bringing. How was it for

you, Rosie? Because did you have that real click

of emotion kind of going through?

>> Rosie: Yeah, absolutely. I think I, in the same way kind

of envy Harriet a lot just from being there to see

the interaction with the children. So it was the

same for me. It was in the evening. So a lot of it

was about the environment for me, and hearing the

way, the teachers, and pedagogy studies were

talking about the children and the pedagogy. But I

think that was really, really kind of emotive and

beautiful to hear on its own because you're just

hearing people talk about children in such high

regard as they should be spoken about. But for us

over here in the uk, with our government, and kind

of general attitudes to child care, to education,

especially in the early years, it's really, really

refreshing just to hear that love, and real

inspiration for respect. And respect, yeah, for

the children, because we know how amazing our

children are and all children are, but

unfortunately it doesn't feel like everyone does.

So just being over there and hearing that from

people that are so skilled and you know, at the

forefront of education. They know exactly what

they're talking about and they're saying all the

right things, which we fully kind of align with M

in terms of our views.

>> Harriet: They don't place value on an outcome. Their

interactions with the children aren't to get the

children to an outcome. And I've, because I feel

like in the UK and in different places it's always

focused on, you know, children are the adults of

the future and they will provide value in the

future and this interaction, this project will get

this outcome. And it's like they just place

children. Exactly. They place value on the

children in that present moment as having value,

as having as people who can create culture and

create things. And, and they just put such value

on the process. And it was just, it was wonderful

to be reminded of that because I think, I think

most people who work with children align with a

lot of those values and it's just amazing to be

reconnected with that within yourself and be

reminded.

>> Clare: Because the ateliers are actually described as

places where those ideas take form. So I think for

me, when we were kind of entering this, and you

use that lovely word osis and that, that reach

between the indoors and the outdoors. And we were

so fortunate on our last study tour, that we got

to go to three different settings. and one of them

had a purpose built outdoor indoor space that was

just glass roof, glass walls and all of them could

move, all of them could slide open. So the, the

design and the architecture and the thought behind

each of the spaces is really quite amazing. But I

think it, those spaces that are there to create

imagination and actually to be completely free in

those children's thinking and where and whichever

direction they want to take. And I remember going

through one of the ateliers and there was an X ray

machine from an airport. And I was just like, is

that really an X ray machine? And so the pedagogue

kind of came across and he opened the doors and he

said yes. And you know, and the children go here

and you know, they're really, really fascinated by

this project that they were doing around X raying

and how it kind of worked and how they were then X

ra all of these different objects and they were

creating sculpture with inside the X ray machine

and then taking the X rays off them and then

bringing the sculpt, the X rays out to then use as

part of their artwork. And, and were there any of

those like oh my gosh moments for you? Because I

had never Ever thought. I thought my thinking was

really wide. I thought our resourcing was really,

really rich. But we haven't got an airport X ray

machine in our nursery, as I'm sure many haven't.

But were there any of those kinds of real wow

moments for you as you encountered those ateliers?

>> Harriet: Oh yeah, massively. I think again I was, I thought

I had a well stocked area and then when I walked

in, same thing. It was like the open shelving and

how they have just every material you can think of

but it's all laid out and with these little things

that have clearly been inspiring to the children

are there with lighting and things. So it's all,

it looks quite jumbled but in like the best way.

It's, it's very, very inspiring. But I think for

me the biggest one was in the atelier of, of this

Diana preschool I went to. they had this wonderful

stop motion set up that was all completely child

led and you were watching these really young

children, I think four or five it was, and they

were constructing this stop motion animation. But

they bought things from home. So they had little

toys from home, but they had elements of the

nature from the garden and from everywhere. They

had these things they'd made. So they had clay

figures there and then they were using string and

they were creating like telling this little story.

But they were all working together, all four of

them and they would take turns just completely

organically, operating the stop motion and then

doing the puppetry. And then alongside the

atelier, Ristor was there to help them in that

process and help solve those little problems they

couldn't do themselves but was just scaffolding

what they were already doing. And that was amazing

to see and super inspiring because I used to do

that when I was younger. So it felt like a huge

like pull through. I wanted to learn.

>> Clare: Yeah, it's amazing when you kind of, when you're

there we have a range of teams, teaching teams

within the preschools and the infant toddler

centres. And then they have that, that lovely word

atelierista. So the atelieristas work with smaller

groups of children and really focus on that

thinking. So when you're watching the work of

those ateliers, was there anything there that kind

of influenced your thinking about your role now as

an adult, as a researcher, as a listener, as a co

constructor?

>> Harriet: Yeah, absolutely. I think the, I suppose it's a

more in general what I took away from the whole

experience, the lectures and watching those

amazing adults was really viewing how. Viewing

myself in terms of how the children view me. So

they call it like looking at yourself through,

through the eyes of others. And it is just. I

think I took away how children's learning is

entirely based on interaction and immersion. And

so watching them interact so specially, it really

inspired me to remember about all those little

moments and how being really slow, really in the

moment with that child and just focusing on that

interaction, even if it's only those couple of

minutes, how much impact that that has. And, yeah,

just viewing them as completely competent and

learning from them as much as they're learning

from me.

>> Clare: Because we have the most amazing Emily, don't we?

So we have, a range of creative practitioners and

educators. We have our resident artists and then

we have Emily Husarista. And, I had a bit of a

magical moment with Emily in your nursery

yesterday, Laura. So it was Laura's day off

yesterday, so I was leading practise in Chippenham

and Emily had joined the studio team and she was

talking to them about their observations of the

children and they were naming all of these kinds

of very small projects that were taking place for

the children. And Emily wasn't having any of it.

She was like she was them to go much, much deeper

in their thinking. And I was kind of in, Laura's

office and I was just kind of eavesdropping and

hearing kind of some of that challenging and some

of that questioning. and I think it's a really,

really valid point, isn't it? It's about that

perception and through the eyes of others and

actually what were the opportunities that were

being offered? Were they at that depth? Were the

children really being respected as autonomous

thinkers and autonomous learners within their own

right and actually really capable learners? And it

was a brilliant planning session. There was so

much kind of challenge and confronto really kind

of taking place. And in the afternoon I came down

and there was Emily on the floor. Everything else

cleared away, the whole floor covered in huge

reels of white paper and just beautiful setups,

that were just there. And I think it was that bit

about really immersing the children within the

environment so the environment will then lead the

learning. And when I saw that really taking place

yesterday was absolutely beautiful. And Rosie, you

talked about it earlier when we were kind of

preparing for today, and you talked about it as

that kind of project being posed as a question and

the livingness, and that was exactly what I saw

happening in Chippenham yesterday, was the way

that Emily had brought objects and opportunities

into one space just to provoke that new thinking

and that new learning. Is that something that as

managers raising law, you see? And I know, I know

when we talk about it as a leadership team, we're

always kind of pushing the team to be. To be the

best they can be and to offer the widest

opportunity and the richest of environments they

can be. How do you manage that with your teams

practically in terms of the materials? How are you

supporting staff and your team to really think

about how the materials are speaking to children?

As Harriet kind of was talking about observing

those atuniosters working, I'm thinking like the

clays and the receivers.

>> Laura: Yeah. So, one of the big things that we've always

kind of taken inspiration from from Reggio Emelia

is the whole idea of the hundred languages and

children really being able to explore, and create

and imagine through so many different, methods. So

for example, clay, paper, paint, charcoals,

chalks. So for, for me as a manager, it's really

important that our, our rooms are well resourced,

well stocked, and also getting the educators to

see the resource as unlimited. So not kind of

thinking, oh my goodness, they've nearly used the

whole of the red paint. Actually, if there's

meaning, if there's purpose, if, there's something

that that child is creating that needs the red

paint, it's about inspiring that child. And you

know, I felt really emotional listening to Harriet

talk about kind of viewing yourself through the

eyes of the child. And actually what does it mean

if someone's telling me to stop doing that or that

I don't need that much red paint? How does that

feel for me as a, As a child when the person I'm

kind of wanting to be alongside me and facilitate

my learning is kind of stopping me. So I think

it's so important that that interaction is so,

geared towards what that child needs and what

they're telling you they need, rather than it

being you leading that and kind of limiting the

resource. and I think as well, it's just making

sure that the staff have the opportunity to play

and to explore as well and to actually enjoy

working with the clay. And it not just being kind

of a, part of their. What they're doing, it's

actually them being in that moment with the child,

immersing themselves as well and seeing it as a,

as an opportunity for them to learn and explore as

much as it is for the child.

>> Rosie: M. I think that part in particular is what I was

going to agree on.

>> Laura: Laura.

>> Rosie: I think just Having permission to kind of feel

like we as practitioners can sit and play and

interact with these materials and really enjoy it

because that's really important for the children

to see us, us actually engaging with these

materials in a creative way as well. so, yeah,

just really kind of trying to role model that

because I feel like it's important for me to have

those moments of joy with the children just as it

should be for all of our staff team. and we can't

expect our children to be creative interacting

with these different materials if we can't kind of

role model that ourselves and really enjoy it.

>> Clare: So there sounds like. And we knew there would be.

That's why we keep going back year after year. So,

how you must have been our 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,

9, 10 member of staff, which is special award for

that. Yeah. to go to Reggie this year. And I think

for us it's around check. It might even be more

than that because I'd forgotten me, I'd forgotten

Christina and marriage. I think you might be. So

within that, you know, was that we knew it was

going to be magical, we knew it was going to be

wonderful, we knew it was going to be

inspirational, we knew it was going to be emotive.

Was there anything that kind of challenged your

thinking that you didn't expect?

>> Harriet: Lots of things because I, I went with a very open

mind, I thought anyway. But then you find that

it's opened even more and you realise like there

was no boundaries anyway. so I think there was

things that, that challenged me, especially the

looking at myself through the eyes of others. And

it was. We were watching videos on the babies and

how they take their baby spaces and how they

interact with them. And I think the main thing for

me that made me really think was often we hear the

term, like child centred and we think yes, the

child is at the centre of my practise and my room

and we all have that view. But then I realised

that through this learning, through these lectures

and this experience that my view had become quite

narrow. And yes, it was child centred. I was

really focused on the child, but a lot of my

observations were so focused on the child that I

almost didn't have a wider lens on my interactions

with the child in that moment. So it really

highlighted for me that yes, you can have a really

child centred approach and observation and play

with the child but. But you're still looking at it

from your eyes instead of a super wide lens on

what's going on in general and who, who else the

children are interacting with, how, how they've

come and sat on your lap at a certain point or

certain. Or you've reached to grab that for them,

or you've expanded, they've been interested in

something, so you've gone, you've scaffolded that

and, and grabbed a similar object so they can

compare the difference and things like that. And.

But. But that entire process for them is

interaction. And it just highlighted that you can

observe the child in a narrow mind in a narrow

way, instead of having that wide lens on how the

child is interacting as a whole with you as the

observer and the environment. And, it just

highlighted that for me how it can be so much more

open than even, you know, even with the same

intention, it can be so much more open and free.

>> Speaker D: Make me go, go.

>> Clare: I think it's. I think it's such a powerful study

tool to participate on. And, you know, you're.

You're just at the beginning of your reflections.

You know, I thought it was brilliant that, you

know, this morning was your first day back in at

nursery since.

>> Harriet: I know. And I'm on a podcast and you're.

>> Clare: On a podcast this afternoon and hadn't been pre

worn, so that's kind of like, you know, you really

have taken it on for us this week. So thank you.

But I think it is, you know, it's so powerful.

Isn't it amazing when you kind of, you know, when

we hear from our team, you know, combine that with

our own experiences. You know, it's not a cheap

study tool to participate in. It's, you know, it's

a real investment in terms of the team. But when

you hear, you come back with such powerful

reflections and such powerful observations of not

just like, you say, the children and the

children's learning or the environment, but

actually your practise. yeah, you know, that's,

that's really. It's just huge. I haven't even got

enough words to describe it, but you really have

genuinely made me goosey. So thank you, Harriet.

And I think, I guess again, back to you, Rosie and

Laura. You know, as leaders of your teams, you

know, you've got this team now who we're. We're

gradually, and we're slowly getting all the way

across to Italy. We've got, What have we got? Five

staff, I think, on one of Hayley Peacock's new

study tools in terms of, you know, they're setting

that, really use and embed the Reggio, influences

within their practise and kind of learning from

some of the work they're doing. But that

challenging of thought is also really important.

You know, it can be a challenge of thought. And

one of the conversations that Laura and I were

having earlier, Laura was around, you know, how do

we balance that project led learning with that

high level of quality of care and that, you know,

that absolute, for what's really important for us

at atelier, that embedded relationship as a key

person and that key person approach. And so it was

lovely to kind of think about that from the baby's

perspective, because I know Laura, that's

something you're kind of really challenging and

thinking about for your team. and within the

training that you and Emma are doing with the

Hayley Peacock was just that kind of, you know,

how do we get that balance of care, of education,

of documentation, of relationship, of encounters

between all of those children and what does their

day really look like? It's always something to be

thinking about, isn't there? So I guess, Rosie,

from you, is there something that, you know, two

years down the line you've kind of still held

onto, or you're still thinking now, having kind of

spoken to Eva, Mary and Christina as they came

back last year, and Harriet and Mia and Beth as

they've come back today, you know, is there

something you're kind of going, oh, my gosh,

actually, yeah, there was that bit I loved the way

when you were chatting and you went, I love the

bathrooms too. You know, was there anything like

really so many straightforward that you take

forward, so many things?

>> Rosie: I think just really simply the way they were

talking about setups and how they needed to be

intelligent in the way that they were kind of

considered, but sort of thinking outside the box

as well. Not just kind of putting out something

quite simple, but kind of thinking about that

creative learning and all the places it could go.

So kind of thinking intelligently in that way.

And, One of the things that surprised me actually

and made me think quite a lot was similar to what

you and Laura were talking about earlier in terms

of pushing the staff team for that kind of deeper,

learning and deeper, meaning in terms of projects.

But it was one of the, teachers in Reggio kind of

pushing one of the children to challenge

themselves more. I think they were trying to draw.

They said they wanted to draw a picture of a scary

dog. And she was saying, that doesn't look very

scary to me. I wonder how we could make it more

scary. You know, how could you do this? And she

was really pushing the child. And it surprised us

a little bit watching it. And we thought, oh, you

know, considering yourself as quite a gentle

practitioner, one that wouldn't usually push

children that much. But actually she was being so

ambitious for her child and she knew that they

could really draw something incredible that told

that story that they wanted to tell. So I think

kind of, yeah, challenging the staff, but also the

children to be the best they can be, really.

>> Clare: I think for us all, isn't it? It's about that,

unwavering commitment to what we want to achieve.

And we started this academic year agreeing that we

weren't going to try and take over the world, and

that the political landscape was going to be

challenging enough. And so what we really want to

do is do everything that we do to the best it can

be done. And I think you're absolutely right,

Rosie, is that self challenge and the challenging

within those relationships that we hold with our

children or relationship we hold within our

parents. I'm really thinking about that depth of

engagement, the depth of documentation, the depth

of thinking that we're promoting with our

children, with our environment. Yeah, I'm really

excited for this year. I know we're like a quarter

of the way through, but I do think, I do think

this is, I genuinely think this is the stepping

stone. This is the next stepping stone for what

will be next for atelier. And actually what are we

now? I've forgotten how many years old we are. 12,

12, 13 years in. It's probably, it's probably a

good time to have a consolidation. Yeah. And

actually really take that time to just talk and

really reflect and have those confrontes around

it.

>> Speaker D: Absolutely.

>> Clare: So when we start really thinking about that

evolution of education and where this all started

with Malaguzzi, right at the end, of the Second

World War. And we look at 2025, the day before

budget day, you know, a huge politically changing

landscape for early years. We've got, the rollout

of the school nursery agenda, we've got the

rollout of the breakfast clubs, we've got the

rollout three months in now of the 30 hours

extended childcare offer for working families from

nine months. That rolls off the tongue nicely. you

know, how are we going to hold Fat Fisher? Because

I think for me that was what felt so important

when we say about this being our consolidation

year. You know, I am all for growth, I am all for

parents being able to access high quality care and

education. But how do we hold those visions and

values? How do we make it say that all of those

interactions make us goosey. What's it going to

look like for atelier?

>> Harriet: I think that's interesting you say that because I

was. One of the main things I took away from

Reggio was how it was. I like how you focus on

your own back garden before you go out and do

anything else. And I think the way they can do it,

the way they built it, is just through

participation and community. And I think if we

really just focus on the everyday and our

connections with our, parents, with the just local

community and really like, really just connect and

foster those relationships in our environment, I

think the rest will flow naturally when it can.

that's something I mainly really like, just really

took away was the participation of everybody.

Like, they see the parents as not just parents of

the children, but parents of the school and

parents of the setting and citizens in a city. And

I think that's. That was really powerful for me to

focus on my room and my nursery and my children in

the day. But, just. And our connection to the

local community, I think is the most powerful

thing we can foster.

>> Rosie: M. Maisie I think that a lot of it hopefully comes

quite naturally to us and our ethos, but it's

quite simple. Just those real, true core beliefs

and m. Respect, love children, to be independent,

to have autonomy. These things that kind of are

very embedded, I'd like to think, in our practise.

But I think sometimes it is just kind of reminding

ourselves how we. How highly we, view our

children, really. But I think as long as we have

that everything else should follow. And yeah, like

you say, our relationships with. With our parents,

our community. but yeah, so the kind of simple

things are almost the most inspiring as well. I

think over there.

>> Clare: It's funny, I think it's that really, you know,

there's that thing we always kind of say in the

leadership team. It's, you know, pay attention to

that and it is. Sometimes I think it is those bits

where we can walk past the everyday and we can

walk past what we call the back to basics. But

actually, those are the things that we need to pay

the attention to. And actually all of those

interactions, you know, we. Our children should

have gloriously beautiful bathrooms and our

children should have gloriously beautiful sleep

spaces to rest within. And actually the pencil

should always be sharpened and the paper should

always be cut. And I think it is about those whys,

isn't it? And really pulling back that. Paying

attention to things, because actually those will

be the things those Absolute, tiny, tiny details

will make the difference for those children as

they come into our settings and to our learning.

And I love that participation, you know, whether

it's the family festival or whether it's the

exhibition or whether it's the theatre trip or

whether it's, you know, the reconnect days. But

what actually do we do on an everyday basis for

our families to participate within their

children's nursery and, for our children to

participate within their city? And what does that

really look like?

>> Rosie: Definitely. We were talking as well about kind of

feeling special, going to visit the infant toddler

centres in the schools. And it's like the little

things that make you feel special. Special, like

having the lovely fruit platters and the cheese,

and things like that. But it's kind of like all

those special things we do for our children and

our families in our environments to make them feel

a real sense of belonging and like, you know,

they're just happy and engaged to be here. not

that we might have fruit patters every day.

>> Clare: But we should be having some. I think it's. It

isn't. It's that valid point, isn't it? You know,

when you walk in the door.

>> Harriet: Yeah.

>> Clare: How does atelier feel exactly? You know, we want

our children to feel like it's a home from home.

So actually, how do we now extend that to their

wider family and to our staff team? You know, our

staff team are working incredibly hard 10 hours a

day. I mean, they get a lunch break in the middle,

nine and a quarter hours of the day, but, you

know, they're here four days of the week. We're

spending more hours together as an educating team

than we are with those that we're choosing to be

with at home. And so actually, how do we make it a

place that is responsive? How do we make it a

place that, supports that participation on every

level?

>> Harriet: I think it's.

>> Clare: Yeah, there's. There's always lots to think about.

And I think when you go on those study tours,

we're experiencing environments and we're, you

know, we're experiencing a really established, way

of working. So there's so much for us to take

forward with. So I guess, Laura, I'm going to ask

you on behalf of Mia, Ah, what have you seen ready

from her in terms of those seeds that are being

planted that she might be taking.

>> Speaker D: Forward within your setting?

>> Laura: The first and most beautiful thing is already

seeing her really looking at her setups already,

so really starting to think about, the real

purpose of it. really why she's setting that up,

how that then can support the children's learning,

but also starting to explain that to other

educators in her space. So why she's done it and

why she's made it to look a certain way. So I

think that's beautiful to see that already she's

kind of taking what she's learned and putting that

into practise. And I think as well, I've already

seen a massive change in her, sort of respect for

the environment. And I think we were also aware

that the environment was the third teacher. But I

think when you've been to Reggio and you've seen

it in action and you've seen the beauty of the

spaces and you've seen the real, sort of, I

suppose, the real focus they put on that

environment. Environment. She's already starting

to really look at how she can. Can manipulate her

environment to make it even more exciting and

special for the children. And I think that's just

gonna. And I keep coming back to the word that,

Harriet used, but the contagious nature of it. And

I think that people are just going to want to, you

know, copy Mia and that contagion is going to

spread and that passion and the. The knowledge is

just going to kind of go throughout the whole team

and it will ripple across. I'm really excited to

see where Mia kind of takes the whole team in the

next few months and, and what she puts into

practise and kind of makes. Makes changes in the

environment to see how it's going to work for our

children.

>> Rosie: So, so exciting.

>> Clare: No, I have no doubt that Mia, is going to support

that team, to really influence those environments

and the materials that you're using and really

support the ways in which we're listening to

children. I think, you know, I have no doubt it's

going to be quite magical over at Chippenhub. And

here again, Harriet, I guess, you know, when you

first applied for that opportunity to go to Reggio

tour, you know, what was it that mattered to you

then and what would it be now? You would say to

some of your colleagues if they were thinking of

applying, ready for next year? That's a good

question.

>> Harriet: I think then I just really had a drive to. Because

I'd never heard of Reggio Emilia until I came

here. So I had a real drive to just really immerse

myself in that approach and where it came from and

just really, really learn, and just the new

experience and feel like, yeah, just like, I can

go and do. Do this new, exciting thing. M. And I

think now it's just. I didn't expect it to be such

a grounding experience as it was, like, just

reconnecting myself with, like, the purpose of

what I'm doing and not only in those little ways

every day and the setups of things, but, like, as

a whole, like your values with working with

children. And I just found it really grounding.

Like, I felt like I was connected to the world and

other people and, just had, like, such a strong

sense of purpose when I came back. And I think I

would tell others that absolutely they could do

it. I think a lot of people worry that it might be

too much or they wouldn't be able to follow or it

might be too intense or they're not good enough

for it, like to do the lectures and things. But I

think I would just really, really encourage them

because, you know, what you take from it will be

so individual to each person, but it's just so

valuable. So I think I would just encourage,

encourage, encourage.

>> Clare: Yeah, we need to. We need to. I don't know, we

need to find a way to get everybody there

together, don't we? Yeah, just close for a whole

week and. Yeah. Have our own study tour and a

Tilio study tour would be found. But no, I think.

Harriet, thank you. Thank you for representing,

you know, the Bath team. A big thank you, Samir

and Chippenham for representing their team and for

Beth as well, because I know, I have no doubt that

what you'll bring back, and, you know, from our

conversations just today, you're already hugely,

emotionally. I don't know what the word. I can't

even find the word. Inspiring. I just think, you

know, it's. It's been a wonderful journey to see

you take and we look forward to all of the. All of

the developments to come under the depth of

knowledge, the research and the documentation that

I know will follow. So, Rosing, one last one for

you. what about those questions that you kind of

asked yourself when you were first there two years

ago? Are there any of those questions that you

still have now? Is there anything there that you

are still holding or wanting to take forward or

wanting to develop?

>> Rosie: That's a really good question as well. I think

it's hard because there's so many. That's so

dynamic. There's so many questions throughout the

whole week kind of ever changing. and I think your

practise is always changing as well, especially

for me, kind of stepping into the manager role.

but I Guess it is just kind of thinking about how

we can be really, really in tune with children,

how we can listen to their voice and really kind

of, of respect and represent them as much as

possible and kind of how we can, I guess, work

with our community, our local community, and kind

of contribute. Contribute back to. To where we are

as well. Because, remember, hearing in Reggio, you

know, you can't transplant Reggio. You can't take

it and put it here. It's all about our, local kind

of context and our community as well. So kind of

thinking about our ever changing nursery

community, who we have, who our families are and

our children, and just making it a, really special

environment for them because it's always growing

and changing, really.

>> Clare: I just feel so inspired from talking to you both

today and a big thank you to you, Laura, as well

from joining us from Chippenham. because I think,

you know, it really does cement my thinking about

where Atelier is at and the culture, the culture

that we have within our own setting, within our

own communities, but also the research and the

documentation that we want to take forward this

year and also how we share that. You know, we know

that what we're doing at Atelier is really, really

special and we know that all of those influences

that are coming through from Reggio and Shaping

that, are second to none. And I think, you know,

it really is that story of standing on the

shoulders of giants. And I think today is the day

that we say a huge than to the Reggie of children,

to the Laura M Malaguzzi Centre, to all of those

educators that have gone before us in terms of

helping us to shape the lives of our children in

Bath and in, Chippenham. And, yeah, let's give it

a real good shot because we think, you know, we've

got so much where we keep thinking is against us,

but actually, now's our time, I think, really to

embrace and to hold onto and to retain those

values, to make. To make Atelier magical. A really

big thank you from me for Rosie and Harriet and

Laura for joining us today. We hope for, you as

our listeners, that's given you a little insight

into the learning that's taken place on the study

tours and the impact that that's had on our

practise here at Tillier. If you'd like to learn

more about the work that we do or if you'd like to

come on a professional development day to see how

that's put into practise here at Tinier, please

don't hesitate. To get in touch. Thank you for

joining us and we look forward to seeing you soon.

Thank you. Thanks.

>> Clare: Thank you for joining us for Atelier Talks. If you

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find us, are in the show notes. In the meantime,

it's goodbye from us. Thank you for joining us. We

look forward to seeing you next time for another

episode episode of Atelier Talks.

>> Clare: Thanks for listening.