Navigating the Coaching Industry: Going Solo vs. Joining a Company

In this podcast episode, Angie and John delve into the complexities of the coaching profession, specifically discussing the advantages and disadvantages of working independently versus under the umbrella of a coaching company like BetterUp.

They share personal experiences and insights into the certification process, client acquisition, income expectations, and the potential limitations of non-compete clauses.

The conversation also touches on the importance of doing thorough research before joining a coaching organization, the value of having a defined niche, and the prospects of building a successful coaching career either independently or as part of a coaching company.

John and Angie encourage listeners to weigh the pros and cons carefully, considering the impact on their long-term career goals in the coaching industry.

00:00 Opening Banter: A Playful Start

01:11 Diving Into the World of Coaching: Solo vs. Company

01:30 Exploring the Pros and Cons of Coaching Companies

03:49 Certification and the Coaching Industry Standards

09:27 The Financial Aspects of Coaching with a Company

14:41 Personal Experiences and Insights on Coaching Careers

16:03 Navigating the Coaching Company Landscape: Questions and Considerations

33:17 Closing Thoughts and Listener Engagement

Angie,

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Angie: Hey John.

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Do

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John: you like doing it by yourself

or do you prefer some help?

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Angie: I'm very confused about

where this conversation is heading.

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John: Angie, we're a

podcast about coaching.

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How dare you insinuate that

my very intentional double

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entendre was about anything else

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Angie: So you're asking me if I like

to coach alone or with a company.

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John: Was there ever any doubt?

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Angie: Hopefully I just can't with you.

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Let's start the show,

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John: So Angie, today there's a few

things we want to cover, some questions

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that we're going to try and answer.

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So things like, do you need

to be with a company like

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BetterUp or something similar?

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What are the pros and cons of that?

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Are coaching companies

getting all the prime clients?

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Is it better to go it alone?

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How can you manage a mix?

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All those kinds of things.

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So let's get into it.

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Angie, let me ask you, have you

ever been with a company like

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BetterUp or something similar?

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Angie: Yeah.

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Yep.

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Actually, even later

in my career, honestly.

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Yeah, so I've done it.

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I've definitely done it both ways.

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Stop it.

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I see how you're looking at me right now.

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Oh my goodness.

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John: Pull your mind

out the gutter, Angie.

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Angie: It's a hard task.

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It's a hard task.

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I'll try.

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John: I'm similar, I've had a bit

of a mix and have done a whole bunch

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of my own stuff and worked with

companies where I've had my clients

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by the hour, that kind of thing.

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So yeah, it's it's an interesting concept,

but I've never been with BetterUp.

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So, I do know plenty of people who are

with them or with some similar kinds of

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companies and there, there definitely

seem to be some pros and cons to that.

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Angie: I definitely agree.

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I'm sitting here thinking about

it from all angles, like what's

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really the great thing about it?

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What, pros, cons kind of a thing.

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I think if you're coming into coaching,

and we've talked about this a little bit,

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we've started talking about should we get

certain certifications and do they matter?

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And all the things.

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And I feel like working with a company,

one of the big pros is that hopefully

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if you're being trained, you're not just

being trained on their concepts, right?

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Because there's differentiations

out there, right?

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There are con, there are.

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Companies that have a very

specific framework that they want

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you to follow, which is fine.

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And then there are companies that want

to rely on your experience and they're

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only going to hire an experienced, higher

level coach to work with their clients.

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So I think that's it.

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I think it's fair to mention that

there's a couple of different angles

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when working with those companies.

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John: So, I do remember

when people, when better up.

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I think it was one of the first times

where there was a big organization

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that were like hoovering up coaches,

left, right, and center and saying,

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come on work with us and we'll

provide you clients and we'll have

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different levels for newer coaches,

more experienced coaches and super

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experienced or highly qualified coaches.

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And they have that, and it's worked

very well for a lot of people.

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However, some of my resistance to going

down that path was that they require

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you to have your certification with the

ICF and that they seem to be very set

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on a particular kind of coaching, , ICF

certification requires that you primarily

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focus on ontological coaching rather

than consultative coaching, which is very

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different from how most coaches operate.

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And I'm not sure if From the coaches

I know who work, we're better off

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that that's what ends up happening

anyway, that they end up doing

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more a mix of consultative, which

I think is commonly where people

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tend to go down that path anyway.

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So that's where I had

some resistance to it.

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But also it's a lot of

hoops to jump through.

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It's a lot of money to invest.

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And there is no official governing

body in coaching, but no ICF is

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probably along the way to doing that.

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The EMCC in Europe, similarly.

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These are now the sort of main

governing bodies where if someone

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is asking for certification,

they're asking for it from them.

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And, I've looked at it and to me it's

a lot of money to pay and a lot of

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hoops to jump through to get there.

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But I see the benefits of that.

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I see the benefits of having coaches who

at least have met a certain standard.

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Who, you know, haven't just called

themselves a coach and set up a business,

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which is certainly how the industry

has operated for many, many years.

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And that still does, though.

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People can still do that.

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Angie: Yeah, and I think that's

where it gets a little murky.

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You know what I mean?

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Because I was coaching long

before I had any certification.

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And that coaching was based

on experiences, knowledge,

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creating my own content.

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I Which I feel like may be a better coach.

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However, in that space,

it's a longer road.

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It's very it's awesome.

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It has its benefits.

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It's like plug and play.

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I'm already a coach, right?

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By nature, I feel like I was anyway.

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And so I have this opportunity

to go work for a company where

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I don't have to find the leads.

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I don't have to do a lot of no

administrative work virtually,

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depending on the company.

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Maybe some notes, things

like that, but honestly.

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It's literal plug and play and if you're

passionate about coaching and you also

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want the stability of some income,

then yeah, there's a huge benefit to

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working for a company that is spending

their dollars to fill your calendar.

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That's great.

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Obviously too, what comes with that

is ha ha ha, no compete, right?

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So there's pieces to that and those

non competes are generally two to

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five years depending on the company.

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That's great.

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So the interesting piece is that if you

start coaching with somebody and you

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hit it off, you build rapport and they

only want you, you decide to leave, you

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decide to move on, like no touchy, right?

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Cannot touch that.

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So there's rules to play by, which

is fine, but I think being aware

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of all of those before you just

go, Oh, Hey why would I do this

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this way when I can do it this way?

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Right.

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Well, the longer road, I think,

is building your own business and

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your own and filling your pipeline.

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Right?

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Your lead generation.

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That's a long road.

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But I also feel like, I don't know, like

what's your, what was your experience?

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Mine happened to be a very good one.

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I'm not going to mention the company

that I worked for, but I worked

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for a very big name that everybody

who is a coach would know, even if

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they're not a coach, they would know.

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And was trained there in a very

different way and loved it.

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I did love it, but so why did I leave?

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Freedom!

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Needed freedom.

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I wanted my freedom back, essentially.

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John: Yeah I started off by myself,

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for sure but I was affiliated to some,

personal development groups, and I

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did bits of work from here and there.

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Then I did get brought in as a coach,

asked to join that coaching team.

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And then I, headhunted from one

coaching team to ask to join

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another which was very nice.

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And it's certainly a privilege, especially

being asked for by the guy at the top

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and that required being trained up in a

very particular way of coaching people

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that very much like the whole message of

the thing, all the branding was around

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the guy at the top, and then this is

Harv Eker, I don't mind saying, and so

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we had to be able to know the content

well enough from pretty much all the

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trainings and from the book selling

to be able to speak with his voice

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to some degree on the coaching calls.

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And so you can't really say

that there wasn't an element of

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consultative coaching on there.

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it wasn't still wasn't advisory.

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It still wasn't like giving you

specific business advice or specific

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direction, but being able to sort of

say, okay we can talk a little bit

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more into particular areas rather

than we just got asking you questions.

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I can actually throw out some

possibilities for you if you get really

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stuck or we can actually consider options

together rather than just feeling like

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you have to answer everything yourself.

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So yeah, that was fine.

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Certainly the rates were never

not bad, but they weren't great.

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You know, it's

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Angie: Oh

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John: of those things,

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Angie: right.

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They're, listen, because they

have to make their money, for

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John: They have to find

the clients for you.

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They have to do all the marketing and

they're investing in The programs,

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the creations, the marketing,

the organization, everything.

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And so all you have to

do is show up and coach.

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So if you want those situations,

but all you have to really

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do is show up and coach.

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It can be great for that and of

course you still have to do some

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of your own admin, but yeah,

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Angie: No, and I was thinking that

the whole time you were talking.

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I was thinking to myself, yeah, and

then there's the financial component.

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Right.

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my experience because many of my own

clients have, quit their day job,

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to become coaches and consultants

in their field or other fields,

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but mostly in their own field.

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And interestingly, framework

worked best for them, right?

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They just, they wanted to be a part of

something where there was a framework.

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And there is guidance because as you're

receiving information, you're getting

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the ideas of what you should do as a

business owner, as coaching, right?

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In coaching and that in that field.

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So I think for newer

coaches, it's not a bad idea.

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It's not an awful idea

because it is plug and play.

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There is a lot to learn.

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And when you start a business, you

don't know what you don't know.

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But if you're somebody who

is already so experienced.

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And maybe you're just tired of the

grind, maybe you're tired of seeking out

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clients and perpetuity and, all of that.

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So a lot of people do come back into

it, but I feel like from that financial

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space, when you have that experience,

you can command that higher hourly rate.

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And that's hard to walk away from, right?

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You might have to build up to it,

but in my world, it's worth it.

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So somebody might start out with a company

and maybe get paid whatever they get paid.

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I've seen it from, 65 a session,

which is an hour to 150, maybe 200

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if it's an executive level here

and there, there might be special.

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And that's just what I've seen and heard.

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So that's great, right?

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Like if, hey, if I can make 150 an hour

and you're giving me 10 or 20 clients a

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week, I'm making a pretty good salary.

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But it's not guaranteed.

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There's a lot of things that don't

come with it, but you're at least

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gaining experience at the same time.

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So that when you want to fly the

coop, which most do, most people

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that start out in a space like that,

they don't stay forever and ever.

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I've never seen it.

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Because they realize, well, wait

a minute, why am I doing all of

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this for somebody else when I could

really be doing it for myself now?

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I feel better.

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I have more confidence and I do

feel like I could command more

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per hour than I was making before.

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I mean, I won't mention what I charge

at this point, but it is light years

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away from baseline for plug and play.

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John: I think when you're getting started,

something better up now, I think if that

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had been there when I first started as

a coach, great, I would have definitely

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been up for that, joined in with it

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and, got more, probably would have

earned more whilst I was getting my

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grounding as a coach than I did when

I, when I initially got started where

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you kind of left to it all and they

do seem to have a lot of training and

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opportunity within them to be able to

step up to group things and and to develop

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yourself to high levels of certification

and things like that as well.

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So there's support in that system as well.

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And primarily, it doesn't seem like you're

actually paying into it other than you're

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doing the work for them as a contractor.

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Because I know there certainly are

coaching Companies, I think, active

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coaches, one that springs to mind,

but I know there's more than them

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who you have to pay to play kind

of things that you join up and

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you get all their marketing stuff.

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And so that could still be very

helpful, but it's not for everyone.

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But they have like particular strategies.

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I think it's more of a franchise

style of coaching coaching business.

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And you have the name and reputation

that goes with that as well, which

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can be great in some situations.

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But yeah, it does come with a downside.

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Your earnings are somewhat capped

to what they're willing to pay you.

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Your clients are somewhat capped to

what they can assign to you, because I

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think clients still have to choose you.

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They have selection of coach

profiles to choose from.

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I believe there's some algorithms

helping make suggestions.

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But also you get rated on every single

call you do, and you're still very

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much on an hourly rate or half hourly

rate, and you're limited to how many

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sessions you can do per client and

how much time you can spend with them.

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And you definitely are because I

have a friend who stretched the rules

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on that one and ended up getting

laid off from edirap because of it,

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Angie: Well, I was going to say,

and there's that non compete piece.

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So if somebody, as you're growing,

if people are like, oh, you're a

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coach and they start referring you,

there are some companies don't care

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and some are very strict about you

work for us, even though you're not

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an employee, which is interesting.

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But you cannot work for

yourself at the same time.

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Do you have a business?

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Do you have an llc, who are you and it's

like ooh, but again it I don't want to

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sit here and poopoo that because if I

Had it if I could go back knowing what

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I know now I would definitely have

been jumping in with a company because

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I would have learned so much about

Even if it's not so much the back end

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and how they're, cause I don't know

anything about how they, what their EAs

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do and who's, how they're selling or

whatever, but it would have been a great

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opportunity for me to at least have some

organization behind what I was doing.

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Nowadays though, I mean, think about

who might be coming into coaching

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now versus when you and I started.

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So I know things are much different

anyway, and there's so many

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more things available to people.

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In terms of training and certifications

and whatever it is they think that they

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need, but I think that at this point, I

like the structure of working for myself

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and being in charge of the car, right?

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Like I'm the driver.

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I want to be the captain of the ship.

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Not the first mate.

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John: I do like, and I do

still work with this as well.

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I guess we both do to some degree

of having that foundation of having

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a regular contract with work coming

through to you and being able to

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build your own stuff around that.

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So again, not being tied down

by being able, not being able to

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compete or anything like that.

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But having that steady, knowing you've

got your steady income as a coach and

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whatever else you decide to do on top of

that, and to be in an environment that

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actively encourages those things as well.

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It's also very good.

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But yeah not everywhere is the same.

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And my, my experiences working

coaching organizations have varied

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and I don't think anything's been

particularly bad, but certainly the

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very first company that I worked with,

I did get to a point where I was like

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struggling to get paid from them and

things like that, it got a little bit.

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Angie: Oh, no.

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Alright, that's never a good thing.

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I would say this.

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Why don't we say what are some

questions that people could ask

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themselves if they're trying to

decide is this the right fit for me?

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I would say, first of all first and

foremost, is to do your research.

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On a company, right?

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If you're even considering doing a

big old, or just, work for a company,

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do to your point just now, because

you don't want to be chasing dollars.

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That is absolutely not

where you want to be.

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But I think that's a first step

is, let me do some, let me make an

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educated decision about what to do.

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But what do you think are some

questions that somebody should ask

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themselves before they make that choice?

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John: They should ask, maybe ask

themselves whether they would like to have

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a bit of baseline income that they don't

have to work too hard for in terms of they

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don't have to do their own marketing for

and someone can just provide for them.

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the clients for them up and down to that.

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You end up sometimes with clients

that you'd rather not work with.

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Angie: Government journalism?

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Yeah.

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I

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John: you don't get to personally

interview and select your clients,

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but if you're in a company with a

whole bunch of other coaches, you

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might choose to say at the end of a

session this isn't really a great fit.

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I think maybe you should

take a look for another coach

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Angie: is.

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Absolutely.

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John: a, or even decide, try and

help them find that other coach.

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So I'm sure there, I'm sure there

are ways around that sort of problem.

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But yeah, think about do you

already have your niche or niche,

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however you want to call it.

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Figure it out.

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And if you do and you have a specific

problem that you want to solve, this

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might actually be something that

holds you back from going as big

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as you could go is if you have, if

you're already set up and ready to go.

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This might just slow you down.

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That's all I'm saying.

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So I think it's worth considering that,

but if you're still figuring that stuff

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out, or if you still really want to

get more of a, an experience in the

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coaching industry and have some income

coming through this, I guess the thing

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I'd say is, if you're thinking that this

is going to be your long term career,

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that's where I think it might be risky,

because I, we don't know how long.

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Better Up may be around for years and

years, or it may not, but you don't know.

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You're building your business

on other people's territory.

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And you're in this situation as well.

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They can, they control how much

you get paid to some degree because

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that they have their rates and they

maybe have some control over how

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many clients you get and they could

end your contract at any time any

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Angie: Listen, there's definitely the

risk to that, but I also think too,

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if you decide to take the route of,

Hey, I wanna go maybe give this whole

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work for another company a try, you

might wanna decide, because again,

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talk about the niche for a second.

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Are you gonna be all things to all people?

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And the reason I ask that is

because there are companies that

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are specifically geared toward.

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For example, in the real estate world,

there's Brian Buffini and Tom Ferry.

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They're like two of the biggest

names in coaching in that industry.

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And they both have companies where

they have coaches that get paid by

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them to coach people in that arena.

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So you want to figure that out as well.

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If I was going to sign on

with a company, I would.

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What would it look like have a little

bit of a vision even if you don't know

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what you don't know yet Just come into

it with something and say I was in sales

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or I think I would be great and say len

Maybe you want to work for a company

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that is geared toward coaching in the

sales arena Just saying yeah, you don't

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have to and then there's companies

that hire facilitators to come in

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and Just deliver information for them.

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There's different ways that you

can do this and earn an income.

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And how comfortable are you if

you're going to go into that space?

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If you're going to do it yourself,

that's a whole different episode, right?

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But this is that whole space

what should I really consider?

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How would I even, if I don't know

what I don't know Angie, then what

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questions should I be asking myself?

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And that's like that space.

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Do you think you can work for

a company, John and I have been

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talking about the ups and the downs.

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Thank you.

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Sometimes chasing money, sometimes not

most times I think not, and looking at

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the reputation of not the company in

terms of what their clients are saying

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specifically, because if the clients are

saying good things, it's because they have

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great coaches, which is good, a good sign.

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But you also want to look at it and

say, what are people saying that

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work there or have worked there?

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I did work for a company where I was, I'm

a great coach, but I was not treated well.

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I just was not.

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And that didn't affect my coaching.

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So I was getting rave

reviews from the client.

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But if you asked me about my

experience and there wasn't a fear

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of I don't know, somebody coming

at me for it, the honest answer was

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John: yeah,

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Angie: treated well

behind the scenes at all.

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John: yeah.

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I, I've had some experience like that,

probably not quite as much as, I think

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the worst of mine was struggling term

actually get money, which I did eventually

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get, but most of the places that I worked

since then has never been an issue.

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I and some of that is down

to reputation and leadership.

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if the people at the top are somewhat

questionable, even if they seem to

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deliver great and, have, there seems

to be like the best people go in,

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but if there's something there that's

making you think maybe they don't live

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everything they preach is off of that.

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You may find that that comes down,

it flows down as well and that there.

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could be some issues there.

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So I do think it's worth

taking a look at that.

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You're right.

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Look at what people who have worked

there have been saying about it and

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Angie: yeah!

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John: has been.

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People tend to talk about that stuff.

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Angie: And don't assume like just

because it might be a big name oh,

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it must be a great company, right?

401

They must be awesome

because it's this person.

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I'm gonna say no because no, that's all.

403

That's all I'm gonna say.

404

John: Don't

405

don't be blinded.

406

Yeah.

407

Don't be blinded by glitzy

packaging and stuff like that.

408

The reality of what goes on behind

the scenes could be very different.

409

I certainly know many coaches

who worked for a very well known

410

coaching organization before.

411

I've coached many of them and I know

that they were making far less than

412

I was as a coach and mostly they

413

weren't very happy and they

weren't very well appreciated.

414

Yeah, and one, just one of the reasons

why I would never have gone and worked

415

for that particular organization, which

I'm not going to name, but in terms

416

of something like BetterUp, and I know

there are some similar places, but I

417

think we are generally talking about them

because they are the top dog for this.

418

The places that I know that are somewhat

similar do not pay anything like as close.

419

So if you're going to go down that path,

you probably are at least at the moment.

420

Mainly looking at them and you

also need to look at do you already

421

have your ICF certification?

422

Because if you don't,

that's a whole big thing.

423

How much time are you going

to have to spend on that?

424

How much money are you going to

have to invest in doing that?

425

How many coaching hours are

you going to have to build out?

426

To be able to get that certification or

EMCC is similarly, which I think EMCC

427

is cheaper for those who are in Europe.

428

And then should you be lucky

enough to get in with BetterArt?

429

You have to go through the onboarding,

which again is several months where

430

you may not be earning very much.

431

Are you set up for that?

432

Are you prepared to, it might be

actually quite a while before you may

433

have to invest a fair bit of money.

434

And time that you may not really

have if you're just getting started.

435

Angie: that's a great question

for them to ask a company.

436

I love that you brought that up,

actually, because you might, let's just

437

say for example, somebody answers an

ad or something or is looking online

438

and says, Oh, I want to apply and

they send in a resume or whatever.

439

One of the great questions to ask

is, okay, I see that, the range is

440

that we're supposed to be able to

handle between 10 and 20 calls a week.

441

How long before I reached 10 and

how long before I reached 20?

442

What's, is there a criteria that

must be met first of some kind?

443

Because where I worked,

there was a criteria.

444

And I didn't know that until, cause I

went in thinking like, Oh, this is great.

445

I'm going to do this many sessions and

I'm going to make this much per session.

446

And that's going to

equal this much per week.

447

Cause I mean, hi, you're

sitting here, you're an adult.

448

You want to know what you're making.

449

And that wasn't the setup and

it wasn't a bait and switch.

450

It wasn't like that, but I didn't

realize that there was a process

451

and that was going to take time.

452

And I thought, well, geez, I have to

go through training, and I have to do

453

all these things, and how long before

I'm actually getting a full schedule?

454

Whoa.

455

And it was like five, six months.

456

It was five or six months,

I believe, at the time.

457

That is not a bad thing,

but you want to ask that.

458

And ask somebody, say, hey,

realistically, What's the timeline?

459

What is ahead?

460

What does it look like for coach's path?

461

And you might get an ambiguous

answer where maybe it depends on

462

how well you do and how acclimated

you are and that kind of nonsense.

463

And I don't buy into that.

464

Well, it's up to you really.

465

No, that's shit.

466

John: I think you may also struggle

to get hold of the people who you need

467

to get hold of to be able to answer

those kinds of questions for you.

468

So I think that could be another issue

is it is pretty much a data company,

469

or an algorithmically run company.

470

So getting hold of actual people that

you need to speak to might be a little

471

more challenging than you care for.

472

You may not have direct reports as such.

473

You may not get the sort of

feedback in those sorts of ways.

474

Their feedback probably collated and sent

back to you in a report rather than having

475

a meeting with somebody where it's going

to be delivered more, more personally.

476

This is all my kind of imagining, or

at least what my understanding from

477

people who are working with them.

478

And so that there's good and bad to

that, you're working very independently,

479

but you can also be involved

with some group things going on.

480

And I know they do have those

kinds of elements in there as well.

481

So, you're not necessarily out on

your own, but I would say if your

482

goal is to become a million dollar

coach, like earning a million dollars

483

a more year sooner rather than later,

484

Angie: Puttin it out there.

485

John: that's probably not

the fastest way to get there.

486

And you're not going to be

making that kind of money.

487

Really with, better up unless

you're working ridiculous outs.

488

And

489

Angie: And listen, there

are so many companies, exec.

490

com, if you actually just did a

Google search, there are so many

491

coaching companies out there,

and, again, I think it really just

492

comes back to what's the vision?

493

What's your need?

494

What's your necessity?

495

Do you need to be making

money immediately?

496

Well, maybe, going into coaching

or transitioning out of a full time

497

job all at once doesn't make sense.

498

Maybe there is a transitional

period that needs to happen so that

499

you can have the best experience

and the best outcomes possible.

500

No matter which path you decide to

take but I think at the same time,

501

you really have to have some idea.

502

Of what you want you will learn

as you go as John and I share

503

our own experiences, right?

504

It's you know Some of them are similar

and some of them are and I've learned a

505

lot just by talking with him and saying

oh I didn't know that it could even be

506

a thing But do the best you can to do

your research to see how companies and

507

if you're interviewed by somebody Don't

be afraid to interview them back, right?

508

Don't be so like with any job.

509

Don't be like I'm just ready to take

this job because I saw that it pays

510

whatever 125 a session and okay,

but ask them good questions Right?

511

About what the expectation is, how many

clients, how many, is it algorithm based?

512

Because the company I

worked for, it was not.

513

You were chosen based on the background

and the need of the person coming in.

514

So essentially, I guess it is, but

it's not, it was really like we're

515

just going to give this person to

Angie because she can handle them.

516

John: Eeh?

517

Angie: They're this, they're that.

518

It wasn't, it was personally just,

it was decided, in that moment.

519

Again I always had that question in my

head are there any favoritism going on?

520

John: Ha ha.

521

Angie: No, really,

seriously, you're laughing.

522

But even for or against me, right?

523

And not always against, but am

I just getting people because, I

524

can handle a challenging client.

525

So you just want to ask a lot

of those baseline questions.

526

what's the expectation in terms of count

and, how long do your coaches last?

527

You can ask those kinds of questions.

528

I don't know.

529

I think it's not just it's

not so black and white

530

John: No, no.

531

But, what's your take on.

532

I think we've both encountered this.

533

The companies, organizations where they

have a set of programs and they want

534

you to have taken all of the programs

before you can be a coach for them.

535

Angie: I did that.

536

Yes.

537

John: Yeah, I've done it too.

538

Angie: Taking them.

539

I'm not a big fan of hey Pay for

our program and then you can coach

540

for us necessarily let me think

how I want to articulate this.

541

So my feeling is I don't

want to pay to be trained.

542

However, if I'm taking after I'm trained

and I'm working for this company, if

543

I'm taking their intellectual property

and using it outside of their umbrella,

544

their company, then I don't mind paying

for that certification or that fraud,

545

like whatever, I don't mind that, but

I'm not absolutely not going to pay.

546

For my own training essentially is what

it comes down to not going to do that No,

547

John: mean, I was in a situation

where I'd already done the trainings

548

and got offered the coaching

position, so I didn't actually have

549

to pay to go and do the training.

550

Just so I could do the job

as I had already done them.

551

And that's one of the

reasons that I was invited.

552

But with the same company I was

responsible for introducing new

553

coaches around Europe for a while.

554

And so I was selecting, interviewing

people at events and putting them forward,

555

but the director in charge of all that was

asking them to basically become coaching

556

clients for three months before coming

to the program, which I didn't like.

557

And I didn't agree with cause they

had to pay to come into the program

558

as clients to have that experience

that I, that should not be happening.

559

so I,

560

Angie: but you know what I did In

one space I did have to part of my

561

training and I got paid for this

training It wasn't a lot, but I did

562

get paid I had to go through their

program, their framework, because it

563

was specific, modules and whatnot.

564

I had to go through it as a client

first, then I was trained on it from

565

the coaching perspective as well.

566

John: I mean, I've done that too,

but you didn't have to pay for it,

567

right?

568

You

569

just were expected to Yeah.

570

you were expected to learn all

the materials that you would

571

need to know in order to do that.

572

Yeah, because I think even like he

was even in the situation where I had

573

already done the trainings There was a

bunch of other trainings that weren't

574

even available in the UK where I was

based at the time That I needed to

575

know so I had to do what recordings

of those and get brought up to speed

576

on all the bits that but I was never

expected to pay for any of that

577

and Yeah.

578

There's some dodgy stuff going on there.

579

So If it's one of those things that

like seems like a really great job

580

offer and then they're asking you to

pay up to be able to, pay to play, have

581

a good think about it and look into it.

582

Like really do your research.

583

Like some of these places are reputable

and, but they do have that kind of

584

model and may well work out very

well for you, but not everywhere is.

585

So do your homework on that.

586

And

587

before you start putting money into

it, because it's all too easy to have

588

things look really great and shiny and

not have all these promises made to you.

589

May just end up not getting

delivered and I've been there,

590

Angie, and it really sucks.

591

I think maybe you have as well.

592

Yeah,

593

Angie: company and I didn't do,

I didn't have a bad experience.

594

I loved the program.

595

I believed in the process.

596

That was important for me.

597

It was in alignment with

how I like to coach.

598

Also, although it was framework, there was

a lot of room to still sprinkle a whole

599

bunch of Angie into the sessions, right?

600

and that was important for me.

601

again, on the back end, it was

just not a good experience for me.

602

I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go venture

out into the cold a little bit.

603

It's,

604

John: I do think if you're a, if you're

very much a go getter, if you're a type A

605

kind of overachiever and really ready to

go for it, you might feel a bit held back.

606

by some of these companies, organizations,

and you might well be better off just

607

going for it by yourself, figuring

out what your niche is, doing all

608

your marketing and getting into it.

609

But if you want to go a bit slower

with that, to have time to figure

610

out what that is, work on your

niche learn also about marketing

611

and have some income coming through.

612

And I think this could be one of the

ways that you might choose to go.

613

There are other coaching

opportunities out there.

614

There are some that don't

require you to have ICF or EMCC

615

certifications, just so you know.

616

It's not, whilst it may be

starting to become a bit more of

617

a standard, it's not there yet.

618

So just know that it's not, you're

not excluded from the market.

619

But also you might be thinking

can I get to work with some

620

of those big name companies?

621

If I want to work with people from Google

or MasterCard or, I'm trying to think of

622

big name companies off the top of my head.

623

But if you want to work with those people

and you know, that like better up or

624

somewhere similar has contracts with them.

625

Can you still get work with them?

626

Yeah, you can.

627

Angie: Oh, absolutely.

628

John: you can.

629

Pack

630

Angie: absolutely.

631

It's not exclusive

632

John: Yeah, it's not a monopoly,

as much as they might wish

633

it was.

634

Angie: hmm.

635

John: We've probably covered about

as much as we need to with this, but

636

it's certainly an interesting, topic.

637

And we'd like to know maybe what you

think and where you are with this.

638

Maybe you're working with

BetterUp or somewhere similar.

639

Maybe you've had some good

experiences with this, maybe

640

you've not had good experiences.

641

let us know, and let us know

what your questions are.

642

that you want answered either

related to the business of coaching

643

or the practice of coaching,

you can contact us at speakpipe.

644

com that's speakpipe as it sounds dot

com forward slash the coaching clinic

645

podcast you can find the link in the

show notes you can leave us a voicemail

646

and let us know your thoughts and your

questions we'd love to hear from you

647

Angie: Yeah, absolutely.

648

I hope you guys all take advantage.

649

It's been great.

650

John: yeah and we'll see you

again very soon with another

651

episode have a super week

652

Angie: Bye.

653

Bye