Bija Bennett has been a champion of the wellness industry for over 3 decades, since before wellness became fashionable. Bija has written 4 internationally acclaimed books including Emotional Yoga: How the Body Can Heal the Mind, translated into 11 languages.

Bija is known for her longtime professional association with Dr. Deepak Chopra, launched a Yoga Therapy program for him in Boston, served as Program Director for the Maharishi Ayurveda Health Center, and taught George Harrison how to do yoga. A lifelong learner, Bija currently writes for Rolling Stone, Ageist Magazine and numerous other publications.

How a young athlete restructured herself into a dancer. How music and the 5 senses shaped a richer experience of life. What lifelong learning and legacy look like when you have lived an extraordinary life.

www.bijab.com

Like all of us that grew up in the 50s and 60s, The Beatles were greatly influential as other rock and roll musicians. But the Beatles really had an effect on me and I'll explain there's a thread that goes through my life. Because 45 years later after I was teenager, I met George Harrison, and was in the position of teaching him yoga.

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the MY FOURHT ACT Podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your FOURTH ACT? I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected FOURTH ACTS, listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening on. Let's get started. I am so delighted to welcome Bija Bennett to the MY FOURTH ACT Podcast. Bija has been a champion of the wellness industry for more than 30 years. She's an internationally respected author, speaker, consultant, and business leader. Her practice focuses on the tenets of Mind Body health, and discipline she teaches through the use of easily accessible strategies. Bija has developed pioneering programs for Fortune 500 companies and major medical institutions. Peter has also written four influential books and many articles on health, healing and personal growth. And I want to mention just one of her books. This is one of her most acclaimed publications, Emotional Yoga: How The Body Can Heal The Mind, released by Simon Schuster in 2002, and published in 11 languages. And last but not least, in some circles, Bija is known for her close professional association with Dr. Deepak Chopra, a mentor and colleague with whom she has frequently collaborated. Hello, Bija.

Hello, thank you so much for having me.

Oh, and I have so been looking forward to this conversation for our listeners, I gave the official bio, but behind this bio, there is just an incredibly to me scintillating life story. And I hope we get into some of that as well. Before before we get to where you are now in your life, which is, I think always the most interesting part. Curious, when you were a young girl, or teenager growing up. And your dad, who by the way is a very well respected person and known person in a was in Chicago? Did dad ever asked you who do you want to be? And if that asked you that question, did you have an answer for him?

Well, that's an interesting question, because I don't remember my father asking me that. But I think early on, I realized that I was much different than he was, even though I had admired him greatly. I mean, he was a businessman and a real estate developer. I, in some ways, through the beginning part of my life, I avoided business and real estate, even though it was, you know, there in the home all the time, he would use us to play a game. Who did I have lunch with or dinner with? We didn't know anything. So he would talk about that. And of course, be impressed with certain people in terms of their wealth and their stature. But my mother would always say, is that person a nice person? Is he a nice person? So there was this, there were two things happening, one, being impressed by people who have been successful, and then the other side looking and saying who they really are. And I think both have influenced me. Maybe it was confusing at the beginning. I get it now. And I think you can be both I aspire to.

I love that that's where we end it No, which is about integration and the possibility of integration, right? One thing that struck me in your in your personal journey, because I mentioned Mind, Body health, and as a young person, and if I misrepresent you, correct me you. You intentionally explored all of that. So one thing that struck me is that you, you studied dance and you became a dancer. What drew you to dance?

Well, it's interesting because in continuation of the first question, I was very active growing up. And again, I think I chose some times these activities because my Father was a very athletic person. And I had wanted to bond with him so much because I admired him so much. The good news is I had the ability, mind body coordination, athleticism, to some degree. I swam, I rode horses, I skied, I played baseball, I was on the boys baseball team. My grandfather taught me how to throw a ball, I'm really know how to throw and catch. People are kind of impressed with that now, I can throw a football and all I loved being out, maybe that was kind of my body type, just really active almost too much, you know, hyperactive to some degree. But sports and those kinds of tennis were really good for me because it helped me channel my you know, body. So development of my body was really important. However, I never was a dancer. Prior to that, I was very musical. And music was also a great influence in my life at the beginning. I grew up next to or near the ravinia Festival, which is the oldest Music Festival in the country. And outside of Chicago in Highland Park, which is a northern suburb. So I grew up seeing Leonard Bernstein and Seiji Ozawa and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. And that that was a very powerful experience for me. And I did study music. But you know, it wasn't until high school I was in, and I helped create an auger rock and roll band. And we had a lot of fun. But movement kept being coming up for me that I needed to keep moving my body, and I met someone in college, who was a dancer. And I thought to myself that I really liked this idea. And pursued that. And I ended up at UCLA, after much work, studied dance as an undergraduate and graduate student. But I really had to, I guess, because I retrained my body in a very short period of time, to be a dancer, which is different from an athlete. And it was a struggle at first. But, you know, I realized that I could do that I could really restructure the way I moved. And the way I presented myself, it was very fulfilling in the end, and it really has influenced my life ever since.

That phrase you just use I could restructure myself. And how I presented myself that is that, you know, I'm a fellow writers, I go, gosh, that is so cool. But if I can connect that to the music you talked about, because where my mind was going, I feel like we were drawn to all the senses and the connections between all the senses. Could you speak to that a little bit.

That's a beautiful way of saying it. You know, an iron VEDA, which is the traditional medicine of India, the senses are extremely important. And in yoga tradition, which we can talk about, at some point, but through the senses, we perceive things, that's how we take in information, touch, sight, taste, smell, all of those aspects are really important. And you may be right. You know, I began to maybe train myself in some of those areas. And music or sound is an extremely important one to me. I mean, like all of us that grew up in the 50s and 60s, The Beatles were greatly influential as other rock and roll musicians. But the Beatles really had an effect on me, and I'll explain there's a thread that goes through my life. Because 45 years later, after I was a teenager, I met George Harrison, and was in the position of teaching him yoga, but he had great influence on my musical studies. Because at UCLA as a dancer, we had Interdisciplinary Studies at UCLA, the dance program, and ethno musicology was one of them. So I studied Indian South Indian vocal music. That was the time when George Harrison met Ravi Shankar and brought Ravi Shankar to the United States and Indian music, I believe, was really developed at that point for the western here. But I began studying through something they called the music circle in Los Angeles, where Indian musicians, classical Indian musicians came to Occidental College every month, and I would listen and here's another restructuring of the scales the way the sound, the beat or whatever you could say. meter of that was so different from the way I grew up and understanding classical music. And I believe that affected my dance my movement, but there must have been some sort of an inner kind of movement that happened as well, this was around the same time I started transcendental meditation, which also influenced me greatly. So it was kind of this integration of the inner and the outer that began during that time, I was interested in Eastern philosophy in college and all the senses, I think were very important also, when you pay attention to them. It's an external thing, but it's also an internal practice. Really sense. Yes, those experiences. And I'm continuing to explore that, to this day.

Just a little aside to our listeners, Bija, and I have the zoom video on as we're recording in Bija is an incredibly kinesthetic speaker, you're hearing the voice, but I'm watching the whole body involved, and demonstrating things for me, which is a complete delight. And obviously, when you're manifesting everything you're talking about, as you're talking to me, which is great.

I love doing that on stage, too. I think that was when I started teaching with Dr. Chopra. You know, he's not so much that way. And so a highly intellectual, spiritual, brilliant poet, author, and speaker, and I learned much from that. But I also kind of, I was an entertainer, a dancer, I like to move on stage and inspire people. As I spoke, they could almost in some ways, see it in manifest, you know, through my body, not like I'm jumping around waving my hands. But you know, there are ways to teach even breathing where you can gesture and move, you know, to show the flow of awareness or the flow of the breath. Maybe that comes from the dance training. I'm not sure but I it's, it's a way to express and communicate that I really enjoy.

Well, in the last three minutes, there were at least 10 different doors and conversations that I wanted to walk through with you. So I'm just going to go to one that is too tantalizing to not go into it. The Beatles also influenced by their music when I was a child, you know, and so I have, I feel them in my body. So the fact that years later, you got to work with George Harrison. And this is not so much about telling you George Harrison story but around what dots were connected for you. And perhaps for him through the encounter with each other.

It's interesting, I never thought of connecting dots, but they kind of spontaneously happened. I think I did influence him as he influenced me it was like kind of we bumped into each other It seemed when I bumped into the Beatles, I was excited about rock and roll music and also Indian philosophy because they learned from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi from the Sargent peppers on, George always did, he tended to move in a direction that was more spiritually oriented. And I was very attracted to that he wasn't my favorite Beatle at the beginning either. But he became that of course, and through the music and Indian philosophy. When I was in college, I studying Indian music. I also studied with Lakshmi Shankar was a northern Indian music professor, and she knew George. So there were times, you know, I feel like I knew him. And when I finally met him, so we're connecting the dots. So from that point at UCLA, and Master's in dance I, I moved into the arts, actually, but always continuing my spiritual practice. And then eventually, when I met Deepak Chopra, I asked to work with him. And he allowed me to come and begin this with him, directing the yoga therapy department at an Ayurvedic Medical Center outside of Boston that he was just becoming the medical director of, and at that time, he was chief of staff at New England Memorial Hospital, so that he began to change his trajectory as well. And through that, and health center, it was one of the first medical spas in the country. Many celebrities started to come there and meet because of Dr. Chopra's influence, and as he began to write books, so I saw all that and that at that time in around 1991, I met George Harrison, he just came to the health center and stayed for a couple of weeks. And I said to him when I met him, sitting there in a yoga room, just the two of us, but I was in the position of being the teacher. And I said to him, I don't think I would be here without you. Beautiful. So I, you know, I learned from him. And then he learned this particular style of yoga and yoga therapy that I had learned. And it was kind of a mutual sharing of something that it was a great moment in my life. It wasn't that I had always wanted to meet the Beatles. But it just happened. And it was a very powerful experience to me.

A word from your sponsor, that's me, I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast www.my, fourth active.com, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own for tax. Please check it out. And now back to the conversation. You mentioned yoga therapy. I know this is something you are known for. I have and many of our listeners are very familiar with yoga, but they don't connect yoga and therapy. Would you explain to us what that means to you? And in which ways it is therapeutic?

Yes. Well, there actually is a subset of yoga called, that's Yoga chikitsa, which is therapy. It's interesting, because in India, yoga was always adapted to the needs of the individual. And even in Sanskrit terms, there are different phases of life. Because when you're young, you have no risk to the body, you can jump around and be on your head and fall down and, and have fun. And there's no risk really. And you're just learning at that time to integrate the mind and the body. So very kind of strict, almost militaristic, perfect form yoga, was naturally taught to children, so that they could integrate mind body. But as you grow older, you go to school, perhaps you have studies, you have a family, your demands emotionally on you and your family and your body increase, according to Vinny yoga, which is the style of approach of yoga that I've learned, the type of yoga that is taught to people after the age of 25, is modified slightly. So breathing, the integration of movement and breath is there because the breath really supports the movement of the spine, the autonomic nervous system, you you need to sleep, or you are exhausted after a full day? And how do you help your body and mind adjust to that and rejuvenate? and all those kinds of things are the opposite. If you're depleted, how do you bring nourishment and energy back? So breath and movement combined? And then as you get older, there are different kinds of practices that are suggested, as we age and grow older, because we become more interested in how what our careers are, what's the meaning of life? What about our relationships? What about our relationship to the world, our community, our family, and these techniques of meditation are very good for self reflection. As you grow older, those kinds of practices are needed. And then as you are even older, sometimes we have injuries or things that we need to fix, or we're uncomfortable from sitting all day, or whatever it is Yoga chikitsa, which is more therapeutic. kind of the way you sequence, a yoga practice the kinds of adaptations of postures and movement, how you combine it with breath, sound, and create personal rituals for different times of day. So that's really more of the therapeutic aspect, but it's technically a subset of yoga. I'm actually working with the global wellness Institute right now as chair of the global yoga therapy initiative. And we're doing a white paper on the very subject that you just asked, which is what is this relationship between yoga and yoga therapy, it's markedly different,

as you just described it, and this is what I heard. So this is the Watkins lens and what really resonated with me is the adaptation of Yoga into something that becomes a personalized ritualized practice. Yes, and I also heard it potential playfulness in it. So that was really intriguing to me in the language he used. And I appreciated the description of the different stages in life and how yoga can have a different meaning in different stages and from purpose. If I can connect with therapy and healing, healing at the deepest level healing, the soul, the spirit, can that be part of therapy? Is that part of therapy? What would you like to tell us about

that? Absolutely. Sometimes, when a person comes to you, and as a yoga therapist, it's different from a yoga class, because yoga classes, instructing someone in how to do something, and a yoga therapist, like a psychologist or any therapist, you sit with someone, and you listen, and you observe, and you hear what their story is, or what's going on with them. And you continue to do an intake, we say, so that we look at them, you know, you look at somebody from different dimensions, there is a model in yoga therapy that looks at the human being in many dimensions, because we're not one dimensional, we have the structure of our body, we have our physiology, the mind and the senses, as we spoke about before, and relationships, our emotional life, as well as some spiritual connection with something beyond us, whatever we want to call it. When you sit with someone in here, then the yoga therapist begins to develop programs that are extraordinarily personalized, that's the heart of yoga therapy. And someone may come in for a low back problem. But really what's going on is they're having relationship issues with their husband, or wife or family or work. And you really start to uncover those things. And the kinds of practices that are given by the therapist, depending on how insightful and creative they are, eventually address those deeper issues.

Just the way you describe that relationship. For me as a mature man, that kind of relationship with a helper slash healer is so appealing. There are their rituals, their habits, but they're so personal, there's so about paying attention to what's going on. And the whole being as I'm listening to you, I'm going, Oh, I think I would like to do some yoga therapy. That sounds very cool.

It's much different than a yoga class where you just learn in a group, I quite frankly, don't really go to too many group classes, although you can orient group classes, for specific reasons, you know, you'll go with a purpose, not just go in and jump around and we becomes you know, Yoga has become very westernized. And because of that, I think it's the value of it that the depth of it this 5000 year old science has been trivialized. I'm you know, hope that people are starting to see you know, the wellness benefits and healing benefits of yoga. If the interests go there, I personally suggest finding someone who is a yoga therapist to train yoga therapists, which is certified yoga therapists. And you know, seeing what kinds of things you can learn to be able to then choose your own practice, because only you know, what's going on in your body and mind at any moment in time. And that's the practice of being self aware, I'd say is the greatest gift of yoga.

The question that's, that's formulating my mind as I'm listening to, which is, I'm wondering, because I see you as an iconoclast who, who draws on different things and integrates. And you just reminded us of both the purity and history of yoga and also the westernization. Yeah. But you know, you, you studied dance, I know you chant, how many different things do you integrate in your own work, if it's at all possible to describe that, but I love for you to try to describe the synthesis and integration in the work that you do.

Right now I'm kind of in a phase where I am integrating everything, not just in the way that I'm expressing it. I'm writing a lot now. I have a relationship with various magazines, one in particular, the Rolling Stone that I'm loving, being part of, and I get to choose various subjects that I think people would enjoy being out in nature. You know, very Simple kinds of breathing practices that one even can do in the workplace. But I was thinking about this this morning, because I do have kind of routine, go to sleep, I have meditated in the morning for, oh my gosh, I don't even want to say How long since I was in my early 20s. You know, I'm not perfect, I love drinking coffee, and I love wine, and all of those things, but I think in certain moderation, but I take our Vedic herbs, I, you know, I, I really spend a lot of time and self care even more now, I do do certain kind of yoga therapy program for my back. And for, you know, anything that I need, I have, I've actually had hip surgery, and probably from so much movement that my body needed, you know, there was a certain thing that happened where it didn't function anymore. But I've been able to come through that in an extraordinary way because of practicing working out moving, meditating, those kinds of things that I tried to do most of each day. And even, I'm learning even more kind of going back to what I had learned. Back in the days of when I was with Dr. Chopra, the our Vedic lifestyle is paying very much attention to circadian rhythms and what happens in the morning, and the times that you should eat during the day, it's not a strict thing. But for my body type I function better when I am aware of those kinds of things. Also, my sister is an organic farmer. And I'm learning more about the value of eating locally kinds of sourced foods, and I love cooking. And so I guess, you know, as there's just certain kinds of habits and choices that I've been able to make during the years of learning all these things, you can't do everything. But I just, I think what's important, and I encourage people to do is to continue learning these things, if that's your interest. My dad lived to be 97. And I think it's because he was always learning and always reading and always wanting to, you know, achieve better habits. And I think I've gotten that from him. Yeah, I've really, I kind of appreciate that. I think it's really important, especially for your mind to keep focused on things and continuing to talk to people, which has been hard lately, relationships. I'm a very outgoing person. And so I miss, you know, talking to you in person, and talking to audiences in person. And hopefully, in the near future, I'll be able to do more of that.

You will? One question that's in my mind as well, because in the intro, I mentioned that you've done, you develop big corporate wellness programs, and you're very much been a pioneer before. Some of these things are quotation marks trendy now or fashionable. But you did this before that was so. And for folks who don't have the depth of your history and education, on the surfaces can seem Frou Frou or woowoo, or scary? How did you create programs for Fortune 500 companies or large hospital entities that were inviting and didn't scare people? How did you do that?

A word comes to my mind is languaging. And I think I learned this from Dr. Chopra. I think it's important to speak a language that people understand and can relate to. There is actually something in the ancient yoga tradition that says you give medicine in a way that people will accept nice, people are used to eating their rice and vegetables in a bowl, you can give the medicine that way for a king or queen. You might give them their medicine on a silver or a golden spoon. I think for corporations nowadays, it's a lot more accepted than before the moment you said yoga, everybody thought of doing all these postures and they say they can't do that. And for a while I was not using that word, because I felt that it was always misunderstood. But now breathwork Yoga and movement for back pain and stress reduction, anxiety, depression, which is a lot of that is happening in the workplace, people not being able to sleep, you know if you relate it to those demands and those needs and talk about movement and talk about breath and talk about being able to focus the mind in a particular way. That's the same thing as Asana, pranayama, meditation, you know, ritual, people are even accepting personal rituals these days. I know that many teachers have taught that. So I think, for me was important in, whether it's hospitals, or an architectural firm, or any kind of company, how you language things is extremely important. And then give people a structure for something to do, and do it slowly over a period of time, so you're not overwhelming them.

That makes so much sense. You, you're leveling, you lovingly described your dad as a lifelong learner, and I have a sense that you are as well. So I'm curious at this stage in your life, where you've experienced a lot of things, you know, a lot of stuff and you continue to learn, like, what are what are some things that are emerging for you, Bija, where you go, Oh, this is interesting, or I'm drawn in this direction.

I think relationships are very important to me right now. Especially personal relationships, as well as business relationships, what I'm seeing, just, for example, talking to you brings tremendous joy to me to be able to share, and especially with audiences, it's always been really important to me, and I would like to pursue that more. Another thing that I'm doing more of now is I'm going to be renovating I am renovating an apartment that was my parents apartment. So I'm learning about, you know, architecture and design and budgeting very difficult. And you know, how, how you choose kinds of things to create a certain kind of environment for me, which I would like a more settled kind of environment that I can work and I can live. At the same time. Philanthropy is another important part, I think, in life. And I also grew up, I think that was something that my parents always did, and always were part of. And also, I'm carrying on a little bit of a legacy. For my family and my parents, they were involved in medical research in Israel, and music, with the symphony, and those are kinds of things. My father started a real estate school in Chicago through Roosevelt University, and I'm interested in that, even though I'm not a real estate expert, wellness and real estate now that's becoming a very big trend. So I feel that some of my value with it seemed more crazy out there for as I was growing up yoga, and all that is, is really wellness, disguised. So many different aspects of life now are opening to those kinds of ideas and choices and practices, things that you know, you wouldn't even imagine. But also bringing it to people who can't afford to, you know, go to spas, and have these great wellness programs and all of that, I think that's extremely important to make sure that our world is healing, not just the wealthy are those that can take yoga classes and studios and such like that. So that's kind of been an interest and is becoming more powerful for me as I get older.

It's almost as if the world is catching up with you. But there's a phrase that I remember from my time and of chanting and being in Hindu environments, which is which amount to call it tasting the sweet nectar of life. And you described some of it already, but if What does tasting this sweet nectar of life mean to you? And what might it mean to our listeners,

as you're throwing me on this one? Sorry, that's okay. Kind of still comes back. I believe for myself. The that part about self awareness that we talked about that could be maybe the thread through everything. I remember a practice that Deepak had given to a seminar that I was co teaching with him, and he had us close our eyes and begin to picture ourselves. We were when we were very young. And he went into great detail and continued to progress in the explanation and discussion of where we were at certain times, as we grew up and went through school and had relationships and to where we are now. And it was such a powerful experience for me. And in the end, he he asked if anyone had an experience, and I raised my hand. And what I recall in that experience was that it was me all the way through. Yeah, there was no difference between who I was when I was younger, two all the way to now. I'm the same person. I thought, That's a powerful experience for all of us to perhaps, learn or experience. Also another teacher of mine, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi always said, to do less, to accomplish more, do less and accomplish more. And in some ways, experiencing the sweet nectar of life is to experience almost nothing. If that does that make sense? So as I begin, if I draw my attention inward, and, you know, focus on my inner experience, whether it's an inner experience of my senses, or the inner experience of what's happening in the seasons, right now, as things are changing color, and decaying, these are the natural flows and movements of life, I think the experience of the sweet nectar for me is to really be able to tune in to this, these interchanges and flows that are going on all around us. But sometimes we don't pay attention to because we're so concerned with what's happening externally, which is important. But also that sweetness is to be able to turn your attention inward and be able to be settled enough to experience what that is, and what's going on inside. So to me that that would be the sweetness that I'm hoping to continue for the rest of my life.

37:27

I appreciate you for dancing with the word sweetness that was such a joy to listen to.

This is my final question. And I would like to sort of invite you to direct it to our listeners who might be thinking, you try has explored so many things they might think she's a deep Explorer, she's explored things that I have not explored, or maybe things I have wanted to explore, but the circumstances weren't right. But I'd like to take some baby steps around. Again, the exploration of the inner self and the connectedness of everything. So what what kind of guidance would you would you give those

folks I think there are many different tools now that are available so many more than when I was beginning, this kind of exploration. And I encourage you all to keep looking out there and seeing what's there. But also, listening to your own self, your intuition, just because it's a famous yoga teacher or this or that. If it doesn't, you know, and this is kind of a new age word resonate with you. If you don't feel good about it, it or you don't feel that that meditation technique works for you. It's fine, move to something else, until you find it, then stick with it for a while and just practice it on a daily basis. Even if it's for five minutes. There's no no, there are no rules around this, how long you should do something and when but I mean for me, if you find something that you feel good about, that helps you to feel good, whether it's a breathing practice, or taking a walk every single day, or a particular kind of aroma therapy or, you know, even working out continue to do it because it's through repetition, I have found that it really brings much more fulfillment and you will start to see changes. There's a wonderful Western teacher Rudolf Steiner that there's a book knowledge of the higher worlds and its attainment at but he says if you can just change one habit that does more for your spiritual life than almost anything. I would just continue to observe See, try something, see how it feels. And then if it feels good, then continue that for some period of time, that would be my recommendation.

We already know that our listeners can find you in Rolling Stone. And I mentioned I mentioned the title of one of your books. For anybody whose curiosity you piqued, who wants to know more about you the work you do your writings and wants to be inspired? Where would you like to direct them?

Well, right now my website www.bijab.com I give a lot of practices. Basically, it's a site where there are over 70 videos you can choose from, and I write a lot. And so there are many blogs and articles, some of which are in other magazines, ajuste magazine, and Rolling Stone magazine and such, I also offer a complimentary audit, audit your wellness that you can take and just get a sense of in those five areas or dimensions of yourself from the physical to the emotional, physiological, etc. And you could just give you an idea of maybe where you're at and what you might want to work on a little bit more. And those I offer on the website, and I would be thrilled to hear from you as well.

Again, the website is www.bijab.com. I thank you for so generously sharing yourself with me and our listeners. It was just a joy for me.

It was a joy for me. Thank you so much. Also there are social media that I forgot to fill detail. Yeah, no, I you know, LinkedIn and Instagram, b2b and things like that I share weekly, new articles and new ideas that I have about certain kinds of practices and what's going on out there in the world of wellness, that it would just be great to hear from some of you, because I love to communicate and hear what your experiences are. Thank you so much, Bishop, and thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure. Thank you.

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