Get ready to dive into the wacky world of clowning with our guest Sara Kantner, who’s bringing her show "The Queen (WIP)" to the Pittsburgh Fringe Festival! From March 21st to the 27th, Sara’s gonna be strutting her stuff at the Conjure Bar & Stage and the Mr. Roboto Project, and trust me, you don’t wanna miss it. We’re talking comedy, improv, and a sprinkle of wrestling vibes as she navigates the wild ride of performance art. Sara spills the tea on how she stumbled into clowning and what makes her shows a unique blend of chaos and connection with the audience. So, buckle up and join us as we explore the art of making folks laugh, one clown wig at a time!

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Connections with Evan Dawson

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Connections

Well, that music means it's time for another episode of Just Can't Not.

I'm your host, Chris Lindstrom, and this is part of our preview for the Pittsburgh Fringe Festival.

I know this is outside of our typical Rochester and surrounding area content, but the Fringe is universal and we're thrilled to partner with the Pittsburgh team for their 13th year running from March 19th through the 28th.

To learn more about all of the shows and get Tickets, go to pittsburghfringe.org Tickets cap out at $20 and an entire event pass is only $150.

So make sure to get your tickets today and join the action over on Pen Ave. And on this beautiful Saturday morning, I'm here with a guest.

Guest, why don't you introduce yourself?

Hi, my name is Sarah Kantner, and I am a clown based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, who will be doing work in bridge.

Yeah, I'm super excited to learn about this whole thing and your history into it.

But what day is your event and where is it being held?

Oh, yeah, my shows will be happening from March 21st through the 22nd.

On the 21st, Conjure Bar in Allentown at 7pm and then I have the rest of the shows at the Roboto from Monday through Friday starting on the 23rd at 8:00pm Okay.

I mean, that sounds fantastic.

I was just talking to somebody who was doing an event, I think in the same space, and it just sounds like just this weird little spot that is perfect for this kind of event.

Yeah.

So the Roboto project I did my show last year at as well, it's sort of like a punk by went venue.

So it's like a low state, very low tech.

You can kind of make a mess.

It's a real fun venue.

I like the intimacy of it.

Well, I think for something like this that is like, especially nowadays is not thought of nearly as much is the art of clowning and especially doing it historic, like a historic thing with something that is more of a, you know, historic practice in many ways.

Like, it has to be like, all right, it's a niche on a niche, but I'm going to go all in and I'm going to do it as best I can and make something cool.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think, like, my style is very.

I'm an improviser at heart, so it's a little wild and free.

So being in a space that is like punk and then being in a queen's costume in this whole ordeal feels very fitting for me.

Well, I. I love that too.

Is that it's you Know, that's part of the joy of being on stage is that once you find your comfortability, you can be.

You can have a structure, but you can also read and react through the thing, through your.

You know, through silliness, through all those other things, and change what you're doing.

So it never feels like the same every time.

Yeah, that's definitely, like, a huge piece of this work for me is.

I always say every show is a little different because I'm working with the audience.

Right.

They're my scene partner.

And so what they throw at me changes it.

And changes, like, could change the whole vibe of the show.

Yeah.

And it's.

I. I think that's kind of.

It's a fascinating thing.

And also for many people, the most terrifying thing they can think of is, oh, I'm up there roughly by myself.

I mean, obviously, you're with the whole group, but that's the thing that's hardest to get into your head.

You feel like you're against the audience or you're with the audience when you get that comfortability.

Yeah.

I think, like, from my perspective as a clown is I want them to love me from the minute I step on stage, so that I've always begin with, like, addressing them and playing a little game so we're all on board and then we just go from there.

And, you know, I think, like, there's a really great line that people love, seeing the clown in peril.

And I think being up there alone adds that, and improvising adds that little bit of peril where it's like, oh, is this going to work?

And it gets the audience that sort of tension and release of the laughter houses.

Yeah, well, I think that's, you know, different people have different comedic sensibilities.

You know, some people, they just want.

They just want bright.

They just want joke after joke after joke, and they want it to be bright and light.

Some people need that, like, little element of.

That little element of darkness to make the light so much more bright.

And it really depends on who the performer is and what they're trying to bring to the audience.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think, like, for me, I'm a very, I guess, kind of warm performer in a way.

And so I want everyone to feel like they're having a great time.

Yeah.

I never.

If an audience member does something I don't expect them to do, I never am gonna, like, hide them or, you know, even if it throws a wrench in the show.

Right.

Like, I want them to feel like they are also the star of the show.

Yeah.

And so for me, like, the darkness maybe comes from some backstory, the character or something that's happened there, but in the end, like, silliness or goofiness sort of prevails.

Yeah.

So I'm.

I'm kind of intrigued.

So when you.

When you mentioned.

And I see your just, you know, your artist description, and you've done a lot of work, you know, around clowning, both studying and teaching and, you know, really in performing, how did you.

How did you get into it originally?

What was the.

Was there a moment.

Was there something you remember that said, hey, I need to try this?

Yeah, Actually, it's funny.

I was doing improv for probably, about, like, eight years at that point, and I was doing these characters, specifically one named Trombone, who's, like, an adventure boy who would come out and interact with the audience, and I just called it a comedic character.

Yeah.

And then somebody was like, you're a clown.

And I wasn't somebody that went to theater school or I came at this later in life.

And so I was like, what is this?

What do they mean, I'm a clown?

Like, I don't wear a nose.

I don't.

You had a very Joe Pesci reaction to it.

Yeah.

I was like.

And then I started to research a little more.

Somebody was like, look up, Natalie Palamides.

And I was like, oh, this is clown.

I was like, this is what I do.

And then I decided I'll learn, actually, how to do it and what it is.

Can you describe what it felt like to look that up and how would you describe them?

As a performer?

Yeah, I would say, like, people would say, natalie's one of the great modern clowns.

And a lot of it is that breaking of the fourth wall and willing to take your performance to a level that's, like, so chaotic, yet still so connected with the audience and yourself, that it creates this magical theatrical experience.

And I think, like, with Natalie, what I admire is, like, her bravado in her characters.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's also.

It's one of those things where people will have a.

They will have a singular thought of what is.

Of what.

What is clowning, because that's all they know of it.

And not the rich history of varied performing styles and, you know, all the different genres and the study and the art of.

The art of chaos, the art of being, you know, the.

You know, the classic, you know, the.

You know, the miserable clown this, the that.

There's so many different angles of it, and it's so rich.

The Background of it.

Oh yeah.

And I tell my students specifically, I'm like, you will learn from all different teachers what clown is.

And a lot of it is funny, what it is for you.

You know, like it comes out of, you know, there's a mask practice in the way that I feel like Halloween masks because I had found like this is my clown.

And I, so I really love learning about the history and seeing everyone's different styles of clown perspectives on it.

And so I'm curious to see where it continues to grow in the U.S. yeah.

And I, I, it's, I think fringe is one of those places where one, it not just belongs.

I think it's part of every fringe I've seen will have some aspect of it involved, whether it be the spectacle that are closer to, you know, those big, you know, those big Vegas style performances that have so many elements of that within it.

And then like here in Rochester last year, there was somebody who was working, they did this whole, almost outside of their performance style.

They worked with a whole bunch of drag queens and taught them clowning, but didn't prescribe what they should do and basically gave them, here's all these ideas, here's all these tools, come up with your own thing that's outside of what you normally do.

And what a delightful idea to bring creative people into this, this playground of concepts, this playground of ideas and let them like express another angle of how they perform and who they are.

Yeah, that's really an incredible idea.

And I also think like clown can help any performance because it's so much about like your gut and your impulse and what you have fun with that like giving those tools to drag burlesque actors for like a stage reading.

It's really adds life to any performance and it's also something unexpected.

Yeah, so you mentioned you came into, you know, improv and the other thing a little later in life, where were you in your life where you found that as something you were going to enjoy?

Yeah.

So I in my like late 20s thought, okay, I've always been funny, I'll try stand.

And it was not for me.

I was like this, I was like, I first thought, I have adhd.

So sitting down and writing, I was like, I can't.

Oh, I hate, I hate writing so much.

Like, I don't, I can't express.

So I got my start.

So most of my contents around food and drink and I've expanded outside and do different stuff now.

But when I started I was writing restaurant reviews and at some point I started getting published in, like, the local newspaper.

The amount of hate I have for that process and how much.

How painful it was.

Every time I would sit down, it would be last minute, it would be 1, 2 in the morning, hammering through.

And it's just.

It's just miserable for me.

I hate it so much.

Which is why I love doing this.

Yeah, I think, like, that sort of.

And it's funny.

I went to school for English writing, and I think that in a late diagnosis, adhd, like, it all clicked on.

I was like, I've been torturing myself with, like, headlines and sitting in silence and feeling like,

yep.

And so stand up.

Felt like, oh, I have to write jokes.

And I was not good at that.

And so I decided I'll try an improv class.

And then I fell in love with that, like, just spirit of teamwork.

And I think I feel a lot of those same things where.

And like, you know, being like, completely honest, like, I. I did like 20 of these last year for the Rochester Fringe.

And something I found I loved about doing these was I didn't have time to prep, so I didn't.

And it was great because all I had to do was talk to somebody and be interested in their path and know random things about stuff, which is like, oh, that is everything I love to do.

Yeah, it's so much fun.

And I think that's.

I really identify with that where you get to be free by.

Not by.

Yes, you're preparing.

Yes, you become passionate and an expert in this thing, but once you do that, you can have that freedom of not having to worry and just go out there and do the thing.

Yes, exactly.

And I think for me, finding an art form that didn't feel so precious.

Yeah.

That wasn't like painting or.

And I think great painters and great artists would say it's not precious, but in my brain, those things feel like, oh, it has to be neatly in a box and beautiful and it has

to have a perfect message.

And it's.

I, again, I agree with that completely.

It's where I think of things as capital A art versus.

Oh, I'm just doing the art of clowning.

I'm not an artist.

I just do the thing.

Yes.

And I think too, like, for me, I grew up in a small town called Johnstown, which is like a dying Rust Belt city.

So I don't have this sort of like, New York or la, big city roots.

I have very blue polar roots.

And so I look at is something that I want everybody to experience and for the accessible for everybody.

So it doesn't feel that art.

It is like the spirit of the humanity, you know, like, just, like, very woo.

But, you know, it.

It is, but it isn't.

Right.

Like, that's the.

That's the whole thing about that, is what do we want to do but engage?

Like, we can be introverts, we can be many different things, but in the end, like, engaging with people, doing something you love is the thing that we all.

You find that passion, you find that drive, and it's not about execution.

It's just like, hey, I'm trying to do a thing I love, and if it doesn't work that night, well, I'm going to go back and do it again.

Yeah.

And that's a huge thing with clown and improv, I would say, is that idea that if it fails or if it pops, we always come back.

Yeah.

Like that the passion and the impulse means, like, I will try again to make you laugh.

And usually, even if you flop, when you try again, they're like, look at this idiot.

They're continuing to cry.

That's something I also really love about.

Yeah.

And you can say that about yourself.

Like, God, what.

What is.

What is wrong with me that I have to go back and do this?

But when you do it, you're like.

And then you have the good night, and then you're like, yeah, this is the thing.

Yeah.

And it's like those moments when I look out in a crowd and I see all different folks from backgrounds laughing at me, and I'm like, I've done it.

It's worked.

So I'm kind of intrigued when you're picking.

When you're picking the topic.

So, like, I see your first show was kind of going down that route of, hey, this is a character I've developed.

You felt comfortable when you're developing this one.

Was this a character you had already done, or did you come up with this from scratch?

So this actually came from scratch.

I had been working over the summer on a wrestling character, and I was enjoying it.

Oh, let's.

I want to take a very quick diversion.

We don't have a.

We have, like, five to ten minutes left, but.

Are you a big wrestling fan?

I am.

Me too.

That's where I started with that.

Where.

Where was your angle going?

My angle was going sort of like.

We were going, heel.

She's like a female heel who's aged out.

Love it.

And it's like her last match.

Okay.

And so I was working on that, but then I stumbled upon a, like, Marie Antoinette wig in a Gown and I wore it for Halloween and I was like, oh, this is the second thing.

There's this idea that the second thing is the best thing.

Yeah.

And now I'm thinking about, as I wear this costume, are there pieces of this wrestler?

Right.

This sort of strength, this sort of, like this maybe a little bit of a heel, a little bit of these, like, undertones of dark, but being also kind of glossed over with this royal being very proper.

Yeah.

How does that all kind of work in this being?

But, yeah, it just like, honestly, a costume at Goodwill and just being in it, I was like, oh, I felt alive.

Yeah.

And I was like, oh, this is.

It didn't feel like I was performing.

It felt like I was.

Sarah is the queen.

Well, and I. I also love that you're like, well, what aspects of wrestling go in this?

Like, when you're in this, when you live within the world of wrestling?

Like, this one of my things I really enjoy.

Like, when you look at it, you're like, oh, God, everything's wrestling.

Like, everything's, Everything's.

Everything's a put on.

Everything's like you're just getting out.

You're getting over on the marks.

Like, you're just, like.

It's all, like, you just look at the show and the fakeness of so much in life that everybody is saying, oh, this is.

We're being honest.

Like, no, no, you're putting on a show.

You are.

You're doing a bit.

You are doing promos.

Like, you're.

This.

You're just doing the thing.

And it's also, like, affecting real people when you're doing it.

Yeah.

And I think, like, there's a clown teacher, Chad Damiani, who worked in pro wrestling.

Yeah.

And now's a clown.

And I mean, they really go hand in hand for sure.

Because it's this big melodramatic moment in wrestling and clown.

You know, we want the audience to either really love us, we want them to really hate us, or laugh at you.

Yeah.

And laugh at you in different ways, too.

It's like, it's.

You can see all the different angles when you look at the indies, when you look at different performers, you can see the wide range of those things.

But that's the same in clowning.

Like, there can be, you know, I'm going to bring up wrestlers that people won't know, but it's like, oh, there's Danhausen, who is the weirdest, like, clown, like, performer you could possibly be.

Like, he looks slight.

He comes out in, like, makeup and brings Out a jar of teeth and he curses people and he's the silliest, weirdest performer, but also does it so purposefully and is so within his character all the time.

Yeah.

And a lot of it is just that, you know, that commitment that deep, like, you know, that KFAB even like there is in the clown world this idea that they shouldn't see you like until you're on stage, you know.

And I tend to try to in the beginning stay in character if people do see me, which like can be weird for friends sometimes.

And they're like, hey, how are you?

Oh, I'm doing fine.

Yeah, exactly.

So as we close out, is this a show you're feeling like you're going to be performing for a while?

Is this a one year run?

How do you feel about the show?

Yeah, I'm hoping that I'm doing these six work in progress in hopes that by next year I will have everything like locked in.

Whether it's like multimedia elements, sound, lighting, design.

I do feel good about this character.

And I've done about a 10 minute piece in a standup night, oddly enough.

Yeah, that's awesome.

And it went really well.

And so I feel good about exploring this over the next year and building who she is, what this world is and where we're going to go.

And what better place than fringe to say, you know what, I'm going to step out on that ledge and I'm going to do a 50 minute show and I'm going to.

I'm going to do it.

Yeah, exactly.

And for me it's so much fun to see what hits with an audience and then say like, lock that in.

And if it works like three out of five times.

Oh, it's day.

If it works once.

Oh, that was a weird one off like that.

I like in one show I said my wife had bright red hair.

Yeah.

And it got a really huge laugh.

And then I tried it like three other nights and it was cricket.

Yeah.

So I was like, oh, this isn't a universal laugh.

Like one audience.

Hey, sometimes that one audience is going to be the one that remembers that oddball thing that happened that night.

So why don't you put the plugs out again for the shows?

Yeah.

So it's going to be on March 21st at Conjure Bar at 7pm and then we're going to be at the Roboto project from the March 23rd through the 27th at 8pm yeah.

And tickets are 15 bucks.

You can get those@PittsburghFringe.org you'll go out and support performers trying to do cool stuff all the time.

So any other social media plugs for use if people want to follow what you're doing?

Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram.

You can either just look up Sarah Kander or My name is Sack Nasty.

Of course it is.

Instagram search.

Sorry.

So, Sak Nasty.

Well, Sak Nasty, it's been great to chat with you.

Thank you so much for joining.

If you want to check out other shows and the Lunch Order Podcast network, go to lunchdoor.org really appreciate Pittsburgh French for having us, and we'll see you out on the fringe.

This has been a presentation of the Lunch Podcast Network.

Wrestling is clowning.

Clowning is wrestling Live.

The gimmick.

Yes.