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Some People Are Afraid of Food
Episode 1130th August 2021 • ManHearted • Asher Black
00:00:00 00:38:13

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Know someone who doesn't eat vegetables? Yeah, it's a thing. "I'm a meat and potatoes man!" But Asher Black suspects it's being scared of oysters, afraid of eggplant, aquiver at sushi, and creeped out by hummus. WTF is hummus?

Welcome to another episode of Manhearted. The show about being a man I'm Asher black, your host powered by spunk. And once again, we'll aim to get to the heart of it, manhood people all the time asked

Me what the show's about. You know, what the heck is man hearted. Anyway, man hearted, it's really a show of cultural criticism. I remember back in the days of public intellectuals, that this was more common. The idea that we do cultural criticism instead of just sort of take sides and sit on opposite sides of the island, sling mud at each other, everyone wasn't also just handing out advice as a loss leader for their personal coaching practice, which the internet is made possible and unfortunately, incredibly prevalent, but they were weighing instead culture and its meaning. And if you remember, you know, people like Noam Chomsky and way before him, you know, Upton Sinclair there, lots of these guys that were talking to us about culture and its meaning, and that's no different than what we're doing at man hearted. We're just plugged into a particular aspect of the culture that I think is one of the linchpins of how we think what we expect and the lives that we build for ourselves around the three questions that I mentioned in the last episode, who am I, what is my relationship to the world?

And what do I do now? Or what do I do about it? Those are the three questions of the ancient quests, the three universal questions that all human beings, if they don't ponder, at least in some regard they pursue. And you can see that even in people that aren't particularly thoughtful as they confuse things like manhood, for instance, with their identity and a particular definition of manhood. And so on, they're still trying to answer the question, who am I, what is, what is my identity? And we are addressing those questions from a completely different perspective. And one that I would argue is older and far more traditional and far more tolerant and open and, and interesting than some of the canned answers that we're getting today. So man hearted, as a show of cultural criticism, there's really not much more to it than that.

We're talking about all kinds of different things. And for instance, today, we're talking about fear of food. I know strange topic, right? And for those of you who aren't interested in exotic foods or have, you know, we all have levels of exotic. You know, some of you have eaten, you know, poisonous puffer fish, and other people live animals. I'm not doing that. Sorry. We all have limits, et cetera. But tonight my dinner included among a number of items I got from the Indian restaurant through delivery through seamless of course was baby kale, pakora. If you know Indian food, you know what a Procore is, it's basically a deep fried appetizer. It's delicious. It's better than potato chips. But if you, if you're not into Indian food, you you're going, what the hell is that I understand. Let's just say that somebody took kale and fried it in so much stuff that you, you think you're eating a pretzel.

It's delicious. What can I tell you? And if you can deep fry, a Snickers bar or a banana at the county fair, you can eat deep fried kale and it can be lovely now. And I know, I know it sounds all whisky, right? Baby kale did eat your baby kale. We're going to get into that. So the topic, the core topic I want to address last is fear of food. And you see this, I don't know, have you seen this people afraid of not just one or two things, but a number of things I've seen this in the Midwest where people are afraid of vegetables. Can't tell you how many, mostly men, but how many people have told me, I don't eat vegetables. I'm a meat potatoes kind of guy. You get that cliche right there, kind of makes it okay. Nobody says I'm a, I'm terrified of vegetables.

You put something green on my plate, I'll have a little tantrum. I'll break down emotionally, but instead, you know, and potatoes kind of guy. And so it becomes a, you know, the thing you're scared to death of becomes a badge of your, your manhood. That's part of what I mean by cultural criticism. Is that really manly? Is that man hearted at all, if you're, you're afraid of some brands granted the starchy vegetables though, you know, are green beans and corn. Yeah. The vegetables that have the most fat in them, the vegetables that, I mean, corn, if you grind it up, you can make just about everything that's bad for you and causes you to be, you know to be a little bit chubby, right? Like giant family size bags of Cheetos. And what is it? Corn, of course it's corn. So, you know, if you rule out the superstar T vegetables, which are just fat in another and another disguise, a lot of people are afraid of them.

They won't eat them. And it's kind of fanatical, right? Like when I was growing up, I was in this boarding school, the country guys that would ask me the strange, just things, you know, like I have one guy one time later on, this is later on in life as an adult, he asked me if I was wearing and a belt and I'm like, why, you know, first, why are you focused on me? Why is this what our conversation has come to? It's not how about that next? But are you wearing a belt is like, well, if you have belt loops, you should wear a belt. If you don't have belt, that's a whole different story. You'd probably have belt loops. But if you have Belushi where I'm like, God, this parochial obsession with conformity aside, you know, why are you focused on this?

So I had a guy asked me when I was a kid and this is not my weird thing. I've seen this all over the country in various communities, lots of just random people that don't know each other. And it's not me bringing it to, I've heard them talk about this to other people heard other, yeah. People tell me about it, but maybe your experience is different. You know, everybody grows up differently with a set of experiences and sees different things. I lived in 23 cities before I was 18. I got somewhat of a breadth of experience, but I know I seen everything. So this guy, he says you know, if you're finished with your dinner and you're still hungry, would you rather have seconds of the meat and potatoes? Or would you rather have dessert? I said, well, what's for dessert. He says, it doesn't matter.

And him saying, well, we'll make something up, but he's like good blueberry pie. And I was like, oh, I'd rather have the blueberry pie. It's like, oh yeah, you're not manly. And why? Because a real man would watch seconds of the meat and potatoes. Cause we're mad. And this is what we do. We work, we eat our meat and you know, the, the, the pie is optional. It's only if there's no meat and potatoes left, then you eat dessert. God who makes these rules, you terrified not just the food, but that somebody might be doing it wrong. And you got limits. I remember, I remember that the first time I went to the deep south, I mean, we're talking about the Willie swamp kind of deep south. I got no problem with the deep south per se, Hey, what it's become is kind of a monstrosity these days.

But you know, one could argue it was always a monstrosity. Okay. You know, but when I'm talking about is not, everything is bad, right? So I mean, there's music that comes out of the south that I think is fine. Scanner free Burton. Now I don't mean that, but sweet home, Alabama. Anyway, the point is that I've what was I going to say now? I've lost, lost my train of thought. That's what happens? You lose your train of thought as you get older. And then you've got to suffer through a podcast with another older guy, because you're probably about my age. If you listened to the show. All right. So what the story was I going to tell? Oh, sweetie. I mean, yeah, yeah. From the south, you know what that is. If you have never heard of sweet tea and you're going, like, what the is that you've not even been to the south, not, you may have driven through, you may have flown over, but that's not the same thing.

Sweet teas, a thing. And we're talking sun tea, sweet tea, you got to make your own tea. You know, and it's too much work at the gallons of sun tea. People drink, it's insane, the amount they put away. And so the only way to do it is get these giant jars, you know, 20 times the size of a Mason jar, make it outside, put it out in the sun. It's it's risky. But you know, the attitude is like, screw the microbes. If I die, I die. I got to have sweet tea. I had a friend that owned a gas station in Oklahoma. You know, he said, he says, most gas stations, their money off of, you know, in town. They make their money off of beer and cigarettes. And that's understandable. I mean, Y if you're hanging out at a gas station for other reasons, you're that creepy guy.

That's standing too near the bathroom going I'll hold the door open for me. You know, be careful. Watch that guy watch out. Especially if the, if it's around back and you have to get a key, who's touched that key. I wonder, see, I'm squeamish about some things, but, but his rural gas station made most of its money off of sweet tea. They couldn't keep the stuff in stock. They'd have these trucks come up and that's all their hauling. They would just Iowa. It would just fill an entire aisle with sweet tea. They had called at, at warm. And he would just sell out of it like crazy. They could add trouble, keep it in stock. Sweet teas up a thing, man. I remember when I first went to the, I was talking about the Willie swamp when we first went to the south, not the literal Willie swamp, not the one of the Charlie Daniels song, which is excellent.

If you haven't heard it, there's things that walk and there's things that Crow, things creep them out in the night. No, something like that. You got to hear that. So anyway it's almost as good as uneasy writer, which I like a little bit better. So it, don't not Charlie Daniels T you heard his full repertoire, by the way, you might not like hillbilly music might think you don't, but until you've had some sweet tea and a piece of apple pie, I'm kidding about the sweet tea. That stuff will kill you until you've had some, some apple pie. And you've been sitting there and listening to a guy, play out one of those songs in a banjo on your porch, in the heat of summer as the Wipper wills go. And, and you know, the cicadas make their, add their concert noise to it.

You don't know, you don't know. So anyway, Genesee, I guess I'm open to the south. They got room for it in my life portions of it. My, I got relatives that were farmers in the south. And this is part of what me off is, is people don't eat like that anymore. You know, if they did, they'd be healthy as those great-grandparents were back to the sweet tea thing. I guy, when I first went to the south and he's like, look your people, you know, from the north, I, it doesn't take much to be north north of there, north of bar that's north. If you people from the north, you drink here, your coffee cold and your tea hot. I was like, all right, you didn't have a finish for that sentence, basically. Yeah. The end of that sentence was that ain't right. That's wrong.

I remember saying that in a coffee shop, one time, I just belt it out. Some guy was going on and moaning about people that weren't from there. And I said, if it's different, it's wrong. And he said, right. I'm like, there you go. That's the belief. So yeah, I mean, afraid of doing it wrong, mixed with this food thing, food is a cultural icon. It's like when you go into a church and one church has got statues and belts and smells and incense and robes and crosses and holy water and the other church, Tory, I mean, they got none of that stuff and you would not get away with bringing that stuff in there. These things are there, cultural icons they're important, right? Food. Let me go back to this issue of farm food, by the way, and how the diet has changed, not just in the south, but really across the country.

I mean, it's different, right? New York city, Brooklyn is going to be different than Springdale, Arkansas, you know, just face it it's that way. But even in Springdale, Arkansas, you know, my, my relatives were farmers in the early days. And when they served a meal, I mean, it was Southern style. You know, they would cook and there'd be four kinds of beans and three kinds of melons. And there'd be both roasts and him, or maybe Turkey and roaster. It'd be a couple of kinds of meat and there'd be roles. In addition to other kinds of bread, there'd be two or three kinds of pie. Like, you know, a sweet potato pie, a buttermilk pie, a blueberry pie, and just every kind of produce and, and vegetable that, I mean, I tried wax beans, put it this way. I once had black IPS and purple whole peas, which are just purple, black IPS.

They were in different dishes next to each other. You had your choice. You want black IPS or purple. Hopefully is a milling. I don't know how are they different? They're the same. It was like, all right, well mix them. I don't care. They'd lay out a spread. And then you didn't need an invitation. The way it was in the old days of the south, people would come over. They would come up. Your family would come on. Oh, look, it's cousin Jimmy. And his four kids, they just roll up. They knew there was going to be food. You knew that you had enough to feed them and nobody needed an appointment. You didn't know if you were going to see them again for three or four months. But I mean, eventually you would, anybody could just about roll up. But if a neighbor stopped by you fixed them a place, it's sit down and eat.

You know, you couldn't get out of there without having something. At least even like, oh, I'm, I've had all I can stand. The Mrs. Fed me is like, here, you gotta have some pie. You gotta try her pie. He has some pecan pecan pie has some fresh pecan pie or some Walnut ice cream made with the walnuts from our own trees. I mean, this stuff was, it was an amazing way to eat and you could eat as little or as much as you want, but what people did was they ate a meal and then they fell asleep. They napped because you know, you do that on Sunday or whatever, Sunday afternoon, you've been working the other six days. And then you wake up and you graze. And that was of your dinner. You know, you might shove some bacon into some leftover rolls and have yourself, some black eyed peas and some ham.

And then maybe another piece become pie and go back to bed for the night, you know, listen to the Wipper Wells and the cicadas. And he got up and he worked your off. And what's funny is the farmers were mostly kind of slim. They weren't Tebow's, but things changed. You know, I remember the next generation after my great-grandparents my grandparents, they were all into that Betty crocker Pillsbury that they sold us. That ration of, that wonder bread's better than mom's bread, baby formulas, better than, and breast milk, all the crap, the corporations shoved them. Yeah. On our throats that changed the diet. And of course, from there, it just got worse, you know, TV dinners, you know, featuring them, you know, terrible sugar cereals that, you know, wow. With 11 and essential nutrients and vitamins as part of a healthy and balanced breakfast.

I never saw anybody eat it as part of a breakfast. I said, let me half a box of cereal as their breakfast. So the diet changed. And unfortunately, you know, it's havoc on us. We have a, an obesity epidemic. I mean, all you gotta do is fly to a place where the primary restaurant is, you know, Chili's Applebee's and TGI Fridays. And the people there might be making fun of, you know, hot tea and avocado toast. But geez, you know skipping a meal once a week, while maybe running down the street, instead of driving in your SUV from one parking lot to the parking lot at night store, and maybe eating something with a little bit less. So Austin MSG in it that, you know, would be a good idea. You know, it always brings up ranch. When I was in the Midwest, I saw these guys, I delivered pizza there as a kid, and I used to take it to the dorms and the frat boys would be like, you know, be sure, yeah, put extra ranch in their ranch.

I hear people just yelling at, across the Denny's ranch. Denny's right. Ranch. And it's just milk and MSG. That's all it is. I mean, ranch dressing was invented as an MSG delivery vehicle and MSG was invented to cover the taste of spoiled rotten food. And so what do you put it on mediocre food that isn't healthy? You know, it's got a little sugar, a little MSG in it and a little bit of fat from the milk. And it creates this flavor sensation. That's an an excitotoxin that tells your brain that, you know, the food is good. Even if it's been sitting out in the sun in a dirty diaper for an hour. Yeah. Image you don't want, but that's how bad some of that food is as far as I'm concerned. So the food's really changed, right? People now waddle in and out of the cracker barrel, they got those commercials.

I've seen them on TV, the commercials everybody's thin and lie. Then he, and you know, they're eating three servings of vegetables and one little portion of it. That's not how people have you been to a cracker barrel. That is not how people eat. And it's certainly not what they look like in there. And I don't just mean their models versus not models. I mean, these tall slender people. It's like if there's some tribes somewhere where those people live on earth, flying around in their space, capsules, you know, launched out of George shores is compound in the Arctic. Those people aren't eating at Applebee's, but they don't exist. Mostly. They're just figments of commercial makers imagination. Anyway, the point is this fear of food thing. People are afraid of healthy food. And that's the thing is if you're culturally, if you're culturally pre-programmed or if of your cultural identity, part of who you are saying, you're not a man X or you you're, you're a man, if you do eat Y but not Z, if it's that deep that you associate it with your manhood, then you got to admit, there was an incredibly strong cultural bias there, and culture plays an enormous role in people's health choices.

And essentially what people end up looking like and how fast they die. I mean, I can't tell you how many friends I've had that. I met him and see him three years later, and they're there twice the way they were there. They're not going to live to be 55. That just isn't going to happen. They're well past diabetes and other issues related to destroying their joints and things like that. The writing and the special carts around the Walmart, these guys they're bound for the coffin sooner than they have to be. And it's sad to think that a lot of that is culture and some of it is even fear. You know, I don't know what that stuff is. I would need it. I can't tell you how many people I've described God, Indian food, Greek food, Lebanese food, and like, oh, you know, that's, I couldn't imagine that sounds gross.

I would never try that. I won't even try it. You got to break out a colleague of mine as a chef. And he went to New Mexico to see his friends and they wanted to go, I don't know. It was like, not Applebee's, but it's one of those places, right? The big box stores for food where everything's got MSG sauce. And, and he was saying, know, they, they make fresh Molay around the corner and a person who's been living there for years. Like what's Molly. He's like, look, there's this little old ladies making handmade tortillas, just down the street. Why on earth would we go to some corporate chain with ferns and brass bars rubbed down with Sheila's shine and suspenders with flair on it, try the local fair. It's good for you. It comes. Yeah. From here, it's made by people in people's kitchens, the old way, the way that people ate a hundred years ago before they were falling over, as Tebow's at the rate that we are now, and you might say, oh, you're making fun of people because they're no, it's a wake up call.

I mean, seriously, you can just say, well, Jill's fat and it's not her fault. I'm not talking about Joe in particular, maybe jail. But I'm talking about the trend that allows Jill's condition to be considered normative in places in Missouri, Kansas, Texas, Arkansas, Florida, there, you know, they need an extra seat on the airline. They got a two seater, toilet they're disabled. And they got that way by completely controllable behavior. They ate themselves into it. You know, part of this, I get, it's a mix of poverty, depression. The fact that you're in a parochial area that doesn't have, you know, access to the things that you make fun of in a place like New York city, avocado toast and you know, skinny jeans and all of that, don't fly. I get it. And those things can be freaking annoying. I live in Brooklyn and I find it annoying, right?

And I don't like avocado toast and I don't wear skinny jeans. And I get it hipsterism is another topic, but a reaction shouldn't be the basis on which we decide, you know, what to do with our bodies. And I think we emphasize exercise. We emphasize health checkups. We emphasize a lot of things, but I don't see enough people talking about the cultural significance of food and food is a communal thing that we don't just accept in our bodies. But we share it with other people. It becomes part of the commerce we have with people in our sphere of influence people in our EGIS, our monkeys sphere. If you want to use that analogy, if you don't know what that is, Google it monkey sphere. It's a great analogy, but you can only have so many people in your monkey sphere. That's why we have so much conflict as one of the reasons we're apes.

This is how it works. But this fear a set of fears. These phobias around food, I think are driving us a little bit crazy. So a couple more things to say, we'll wind down, but I want to point out that one ticket to being man hearted is try something that you haven't. If you haven't had hummus cat, some hummus, man, if hummus is old hat and you haven't, you're like, oh, I don't eat Indian food. It's too soon bicy. You're reducing the United States to chili dogs. There's a lot more here, you know, all kinds. Did you know that there's like lamb with cumin, there's Chinese cowboy feud. There's all kinds of food out there in India that spicy. I just had some it wasn't spicy. What are you talking about? It's not all Curry. Just cause that's what's around you. It doesn't mean that's what's there.

There's all kinds of stuff. And by the way, avocados. Yeah. Good for you. So think about doing something that's outside the norm, but also can we get over just being so fearful about food? I mean, God, the last president used to eat at McDonald's and Kentucky fried chicken, but because he was convinced that the factory is safe, blue line process somehow made it cleaner and somehow more stair aisle, you know, this is a guy that wouldn't touch the faucet at, in a bathroom in order to wash his hands. Cause somebody else might've touched it. It was a guy that used to get a new toothbrush every night and throw it out. Not because he's rich and could, but because the idea of a germ being there from the next day would freak came out that level of phobia as almost become nationalized at this point.

And I think at some point we got to address it. We got to find our man hearted selves and start taking on some foods that not only are better for us, but hell are just frankly, a little more interest. So last story. I remember one of the things, things that, you know, I mentioned my family growing up as farmers they would do is in the morning they would make a bacon and often bacon and sausage and eggs. You think, oh, that's a lot of fried food. It's not good for you. Hey, all I can tell you is my great grandfather died at the woodpile with an accent, his hand, and a smile on his face and tobacco in his mouth. And this is how he wanted to die. And he died at a ripe old age. I hope I'm not saying that, you know, risky behaviors are wise.

I'm not putting out medical advice. I'm just saying that eating some bacon is not going to kill you. I mean, it's going to kill them pig, you know, due respect to you, vegetarians and vegans. Yeah. But it's not going to kill you. Well, it depends, you know, eating a cow might kill you, given everything. That's here in the factory beef industry, eating chickens that ate those cows might kill you, but that's a different story. Best saved for another moment. I want to say that they made bacon and sausage and a Southern delicacy, which I still, I can't get good. It doesn't happen in New York, white gravy and biscuits. If you've been to both places, if you've been up north the Mason Dixon line in order to white gravy and biscuits, it's not, it's either just flour and water, which is not really, it's not good or it's, I mean, sure.

You can get that at the I hop and it's crap. It's just plaster of Paris or it's yellow. And it's somebody got caught creative with it and they've put pimentos in it. Like what are you doing? Or they mix the eggs in it. It's just disgusting in the south. The one place it does it, right. I hate to say is cracker barrel. They make this stuff called a red eye. It's just Southern white gravy and biscuits. It's like a sausage gravy where the drippings and the bits and stuff, they get left in the cast. Iron skillet. If you make your sausage, did a cast iron skillet, that stuff forms a Ru when you mix it with flour and it becomes part of the gravy and it makes this great, wonderful concoction that you put over biscuits, even canned Pillsbury biscuits will work fine.

If you've got a good gravy, it's fine. The gravy is awesome. Shouldn't be the centerpiece of a healthy breakfast, but it's something but that sausage and the bacon and the leftover biscuits, she used to sit down on the counter all day long. And yeah, you either put a paper towel over it or, you know, maybe you'd cover the biscuits or something, but the bank, which just sit there. I remember I had somebody, my house one time and I had bacon. It was sitting out from the morning. I was planning to use it, to make, I dunno, bacon burgers or something that night. And she flipped the hell out. She was like, oh, you know, I've, I've got a health card that enables me to work in restaurants. And I know you're not supposed to leave meat out. And I'm like, this is cured meat. It's already, it's done.

It's been cured. It's not going to go bad. You know, long, it would take this to go back. You could bury this in a pair of gym socks for two or three months. And the bacon would probably still be fine if, if moisture didn't get to it or rodents or so they, if you put it in a Cedar chest, you could pull that bacon out and eat it in the apocalypse. We'll be finding bacon biscuits that some southerner put away in a Ziploc bag. And we'll be glad we got them. Those things last forever. So the bacon sits on the freaking counter. I heard all of this about, oh, you can't do it. It's been at room temperature. It hasn't been kept cold. You got to put it in the refrigerator, which by the way in the south, we called an ice box. It's not true.

We've got to get over these phobias. We're watching too many commercials about how to keep our food sterile and safe, too much stuff about it. Saran wrap and baggies and cleansers and things to wipe the counter down. So not a single microbe can survive. And we're not looking at the fact that food first is meant to be enjoyed. Secondly, it's sure meant to be interesting if you're eating the same. If Tuesday is taco night and Wednesday is tuna casserole night and Thursday is meatloaf night. And that's the way you live 365 days out of the year, except for the once a week that you drive to the Applebee's you're missing out on so much aside from the fact that you're going to have unnecessary problems later. So try something new. Don't be afraid of food. It's time to, we give out another excellence in manhood award.

E I M a and this one is going to go to Anthony. Now, if you're not familiar with Anthony Bordain, the late Anthony Bordain, he died June 8th, 2018 at the age of 61, he was a celebrity chef and author travel documentarian. But most importantly, he was a brave. I'm going to put it that way. This guy, he had these shows, right? Like Anthony Bourdain, no reservations. Just imagine your restaurant show where you go out to different restaurants called no reservations. He's got, he had one called Anthony Bordain parts, unknown love that. You know, it was all about trying something new, tasting the on tasted adventures in food. This guy ate things that tried to crawl away while he was eating them. I mean, you know, not everything was like that. He also, you know, this guy knows where the best taco truck is. That's the kind of stuff like, where is it?

I used to live in Elmhurst in Queens and like, look, the hunt for the best taco truck is a never ending thing, you know, because, okay, so they got the right stake, but they, you know, they get the, the Assata tacos are fantastic, but the salsa is not as good over here. They, these guys are shoving avocado into their salsa. These guys do it right with the, just the pure tomatillo salsa. It's the good stuff, stuff like that. You got to watch board. Dang. Cause they'll take you on the right trip. Right? His shows are still out there. You can read his best-selling book, kitchen, confidential adventures in the culinary underbelly. If you're a bookish kind of person, I hope you're not too bookish. Cause I want you listening to my, but as it is, Bordain is just quintessentially an American tough guy. I like him a lot because you know, you see the guy open collar, just, you know, dressed like you know, like it might Paul Newman dressed, you know, and he's, he's talking to you about race cars and for Bordain food as his racetrack, it was fantastic to watch this guy.

I couldn't watch everything. Is there certain things I'm, there's no way. I mean that jellyfish, that's not happening. I can't, no, I'm not drinking that beverage that's made out of yak urine or that, that didn't really happen. But you know what I mean? There's some limits to what I'm willing to take. We all have them someplace, but the fact that he treated tastes the sensation of taste and I mean, it's one of the big ones, right? You can see, you can smell, you can hear, you can taste, you can touch the taste thing. A lot of people cut that off and put it in a little box of what is safe or what is culturally accepted the bowl, or you know what everybody around them is done or just what's available within 20 feet of where they live. This guy traveled the world, experiencing tastes that had nuance and richness that, you know, I mean, I'm that way about my coffee.

I'm always on the hunt and I have fine coffee damned for the coffee. I get my coffee. So, you know, I have two coffees that mix them together. I get Gotham blend from Irving farms in upstate New York, the stuff's fan freaking tastic. And I get capital blend from Bob's coffee and Vermont, which is, you can really only get it in Vermont or you can get it online. And it's got this sort of ashtray taste. I know that sounds terrible, but it's fantastic. I love it. It's dark, it's black, it's ashy and the, the upstate stuff, the Gotham named after New York city, of course the Gotham blended from Irving forms is it's a little sweet, but not sweet enough that you think this is sweet and it's dark deep roasted and just meaty. You put those two things together and it's just, it's like what a good whiskey should be right in, in my view or a nice, a nice pipe tobacco or a great cigar.

So those are topics we should, by the way, save for another time. Hey, if you want those topics, you got to get in the comments section, you got to request them or get on Twitter. I'm not going to, I'm not going to do them just because I think they're right. So anyway, Bordain is getting the EIMA because it takes balls. My friend traveled around the world, eat things that most of us wouldn't recognize as food we're talking fruits and dangerous fishes and things that fight back that's excellence in manhood. That's a man hearted way to go. He died the way he lived, not choking on a, not joking on one of those boys and buffer fish, but you know what I mean? He, he lived his life in a way that it's very Sinatra like, right? He did it his way. So to me, that typifies excellence in manhood.

So to you, Anthony Bordain, wherever you are, you got the posthumous E I M a. So if you're a visual artist, an art entrepreneur, a creative professional, or know someone who is, you surely know about the Clark Hulings foundation, CHF is a massive resource for the working artist and art industry professionals. There are regular virtual workshops there salons a podcast, a thriving campus, and CHF puts on several conferences a year. They putting on one shortly that, you know, if you want to get a virtual ticket, you can, and in which anyone in the world can participate. If you're not plugged into these guys and you have anything to do at all with art or creative entrepreneurship, you probably should be. The Clark Hulings foundation is named after American master painter Clark healings. And you can explore Again, tell a friend if they're in the arts Clark Hulings, okay.

It's time to give out another L L w a Lily livered whistle award. And like we did last time. I'm going to give it out collectively. So, you know, we can give this person a, a nickname if you want call him Brad. Like we did last time we had John DOE that's representative of, of all you people that sort of fit this description, but this is kind of an important one to give out. See, I live in New York city and it doesn't matter if you're New York city or Chicago or a major city where gangs are a regular reality, hell. They're regular reality in small towns in Southern California and other places as well. We're not even talking about south of the U S border, but it's getting freaking annoying, right? Every day, there's some kind of shooting where you know, it, here's a headline 10 wounded.

My more than 40 shots in bloody NYC gang shooting. There's another one, two days ago, NYC, gang banger fires bullet through innocent families window. Here's another one, two days ago, NYC, gang members arrested in connection to shoot out that injured. Dad, shielding three kids. I saw a guy run up on the sidewalk and, and shoot a guy who was had a toddler in each hand. He had like a three-year-old on one hand and a three-year-old on another like little brother and sister and a guy just firing bullets into them just to get the guy. These are all moral people with no values, no understanding of what it means to live in a society. And I really hope that a taskforce has given some teeth to break some heads and take them out. At some point it's self-defense, we're doing this for the species folks, and we kind of bust some heads.

You may not agree with that, but if it was your three-year-olds, I think he would feel a little bit differently. And the fact that it is disproportionately more often for it to be the children of the poor, the husband of the poor, the wife of the poor, I think it imbues us sometimes with a kind of self-righteousness about what we need to do in response. Oh, you know, I don't agree. Violence begets violence. And yet, if this was happening in your neighborhood, on your street, I bet you wouldn't be saying, we need more counseling services. It's time to do something from, you know, the subway guys that are randomly slow stabbing people to these guys that they think their manhood is wrapped up in. You know, they got to shoot somebody, they got to get blood on them in order to, to be the, you know, the right status within their gang.

I got to say, Brad, and all you people like it. You guys doing these shootings, you're a bunch of wusses. You're a bunch of Lily. Livered cowards. I mean, seriously, you roll up on unarmed people. You amen. Men, women, children, of all ages. You hit people don't expect it. You hit him from behind. You hit him without warning. You hit him with, you know, disproportionate force without their ability to strike back. It's not. And even thing, you didn't call them out in the street and say, here let's, let's do a duel pistols at Dawn, you know, 10 paces. You get yours. I get mine. You have your champion. I have mine. We have an equal number of guys. It's none of the ballsy manly stuffed of the, of yesteryear. Instead it is it's drive by shootings and God, is it ever, was he? And I'm I'm frankly, sick of watching it.

You guys are not men. I've heard these guys it's talk. Right? I picked up these guys outside of a home Depot wants they're going to do some work for me. And aside from the crazy they were putting on my radio, the crazy they were saying was worse. They were, you know, I'm in the, you all truck. I'm hauling stuff around. I got lumber and other things I'm trying to get some work done on a new place. And one guy says the other one, well, you know, the way you get status is you got to kill somebody. That's the spiritual deal with the devil is until you get blood on your hands, you won't really get what you want in life. It takes a sacrifice to be successful. And I put a out there and these are like junior. Want to be gang bangers that live in the projects.

And like, I mean, you know, I just told them time came for a, do you have any more work for us? I'm like, look, people like you don't work for people like me. I have values. I have standards. People that talk that way, in my opinion, don't deserve to live. So I'm going to give these guys that award because I can't help. But point out that all of this gang posturing is about being tough about not letting anybody talk down to you. Not disrespect you. And you know the thing about being man hearted, somebody can disrespect you. Somebody calls me an. I just up that's it. That's all you got. I mean, somebody, somebody threatens me. I just say, look, it's just words. Come on. If it was going to real, you had done something already. Instead. I just hear more words. Blahblahblahblah let me know.

Let me, let me go over here and have some coffee and sit down and relax. Read a book for a while. While you work up your courage, you know, instead these guys, somebody even looks at them the wrong way. Why are you mad? Dogging me. Some guy killed somebody the other day for mad. Dogging him like looking at him the wrong way. It's like, if you're that insecure, you are a wuss. You are not a man. If you're killing unarmed people in order to feel, I command, it means you're not a man. You weren't a man before. You're not a man. After you do it, this nonsense about achieving manhood through violence. It doesn't make you more of a man. It makes you less of one. It makes you less human. How can it make you more manly? You know, I still go back. We did an episode about, we talked about Rambo.

You know, you drew first blood. I did that movie, not on all the ones that came after we're. Now he's the superhero. And he's going to Russia to kick some and rescue people. You know, not all of that crap. Rambo wanted one thing. He wanted to be left alone. He's just walking through town. He's like, he wanted to be left alone and he wanted a sandwich. He's like, look, I'm just going through, can I get something to eat? And I'm going to move on. They couldn't leave him alone. They had to mess with him violent. They brought the violence, they beat him. They struck him. They beat him with clubs. You know, they did stuff. They stole from him. They treated him like. Dumped him on the side of the road. Of course he's gonna, of course, he's gonna fight back. Of course, he's going to turn on him.

That's manly. Sure. I got no problem with that. You know, I do the same thing, but when it comes to rolling up on somebody, who's a member of some rival group. What if we all solved our problems? That way, you know, what if sports teams did where the jets we've lost yet, again, it's to be expected where the jets let's go over there and roll up on our rivals, just unload on them. Aside from being unsportsmanlike, it's not manly. This is not the world. Our fathers taught us.

And aside from whatever you believe about, you know, the roots of gang affiliation and how people need a sense of belonging in all the little stories we tell ourselves, at some point, my father said this and I agree with him. He said it was very few things. I agree with my father on, but one of the things he said to me when I was younger, he said, at some point, it doesn't matter. If the madman has a psychological ailment, he breaks into your house. He goes after your kids, you still have to finish him off. It does not matter that he's mentally DeRay he's, he needs help. He needs treatment. At some point you remove the guy as a threat from society and these non men who have won the Lily livered what's award. Brad at this point, you guys are non men.