Michael Bungay Stanier (MBS for short) is an internationally renowned author, company founder and thought leader in coaching. Michael is the founder of Box of Crayons, a learning and development company that helps organizations move from advice-driven to curiosity-led. He's the author of 6 books, the best known of which is The Coaching Habit which has sold close to a million copies and has thousands of 5-star reviews. His latest book The Advice Trap, focuses on what it takes to tame your Advice Monster.  We start off the conversation reflecting on his career choices and discussing the differences between academia and industry. He then discusses what it means to be more coach-like in our work - staying curious a little longer, asking good questions, and being slower to jump to advice – as well as how to recognise our different advice monsters. We finish off with some questions posed by participants on a recent academic leadership development course.

Notable quotes:

[10:49] “[Two things] I hope. One is people find work that is meaningful for them, that lights them up and you enter that virtuous circle of doing work that amplifies and strengthens the best of who you are. […] And then the second thing I hope for is that you do work that gives more to the world than it takes.”

[17:00] “I'd love people to stay curious just a little bit longer and rush to action and advice giving a little bit more slowly.”

[20:13] [Even] if you've got some advice, which is stellar, which is the perfect advice, […] is this the right act for the moment? […] What's the consequence of me giving advice at this moment?  Sure. It might solve the problem, but does it increase capacity and confidence and competence and autonomy and self-sufficiency in those around me? Because often the bigger win is to build those capacities because they're longer term capacities.

[30:27] “You don't have the answers because it's not your job to have all the answers.”

[33:39] “The three advice monsters are tell it, save it and control it….But each advice monster has prizes and punishments. And the prizes tend to be short term and a bit kind of ego-driven punishments tend to have bigger implications.”

[38:13] “If you can manage people in a way that liberates them and frees them and encourages them, then that's brilliant. And your advice monster is not going to be a path for that.”

[39:54] “What is the game being played and how are you playing this game? And are you happy with the choices you're making? Because for many of us, those choices are automatic rather than mindful.”

Overview (times approximate):

[Full Transcript also available here for download.]

00:28 Preamble

04:07 Bio: Michael gives his short bio and introduces his two books, The Coaching Habit and The Advice Trap

07:26 Career choices: We discuss interesting career path choices, finding work that is meaningful and gives more to the world than it takes

11:41 Academia: We explore the ways in which academia might be different and also similar to other organizational contexts, especially when it comes to being ‘experts’

16:45 Curiosity: Michael talks about the power of curiosity, reflected in his manifesto for change, where people stay curious a bit longer and rush to action and advice giving a bit more slowly.

18:05 Advice challenges: Michael discusses the three challenges with moving to advice giving too quickly and proposes instead we first explore what is the real challenge.

23:26 Getting practical: Michael gives some practical conversational phrases and strategies for how we can play this out in different situations.

32:22 Advice monsters: Michael describes the backstory to The Advice Trap book, and explains the three different advice monsters, tell-it, save-it, control-it, and their respective prizes and punishments.

42:51 Misc questions: Michael responds to three questions from our recent Academic Leadership Development course: when is a coaching-like approach not appropriate; what if others around you don’t buy into this approach; when is it culturally appropriate; and can you apply this in giving advice eg to government bodies.

51:32 Wrap: We wrap up the conversation. My post-script

53:55 End

Related Links

https://boxofcrayons.com Box of Crayons has taught coaching skills to hundreds of thousands of people around the world

https://www.mbs.works “Where people find clarity, courage & community to do work that's thrilling, important & daunting.”

And you can find the link to the advice monster questionnaire at https://go.mbs.works/theadvicetrap

Books:

The Coaching Habit - the best-selling book on coaching this century

The Advice Trap Be humble, stay curious & change the way you lead forever

Do More Great Work: Stop the Busywork. Start the Work That Matters.