Today on the podcast, I'm talking to Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence. Melissa is a multi passionate creative and she splits her time between a copywriting day job, running her homeware brand and her most recent venture, an upcycling furniture studio where Melissa gives homeware a new lease of life and also hosts creative workshops. 

We talked about how Melissa’s businesses have evolved, and how she manages multiple projects, including the importance of having creative outlets and being able to switch off from work. Melissa shares how trade shows have been invaluable in helping her spot trends for her online store, and the decision making process she goes through when deciding whether to stock something - if you are looking to sell your product via wholesale, this is a great insight into what shop owners and retailers are looking for.

Melissa also shares some of her copy writing expertise, including how you can never have too much information, a breakdown of how to write a product description for your website, and how to communicate with your writing the value of your product to the customer. 

• An introduction to herself and her businesses (01:39)
• What inspired her to launch Honey Bee Home, her homeware brand (02:36)
• Managing multiple businesses (02:58)
• Copywriting tips for writing about products and e:commerce websites (05:48)
• A step by step breakdown of how Melissa writes a product description (07:45)
• Writing from a customer’s point of view, and showcasing how the product fits into their lives (09:51)
• How a business upcycling furniture grew to include curating and selling homeware products online (13:29)
• Building her range, and how she decides what to stock and not to stock (18:29)
• How her customer base organically diversified (21:01)
• Analysing buyer behaviour using Shopify analytics (22:28)
• How she sources her products, and the power of trade shows (24:22)
• How the upcycling side of her business works (29:36)
• Running creative workshops (35:35)
• Managing imposter syndrome (37:31)
• The importance of slowing down and being able to switch off from your business (39:33)
• Her number one piece of advice for product creators (40:48)

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Welcome to the Bring Your Product Idea to Life podcast.

2

This is the podcast for you if

you're getting started selling

3

products, or if you'd like to

create your own product to sell.

4

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert.

5

Every week I share friendly, practical

advice, as well as inspirational

6

stories from small businesses.

7

Let's get started.

8

Hi, today on the podcast, I'm

talking to Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence.

9

Melissa is a multi passionate creative

and she splits her time between a

10

copywriting day job, running her homeware

brand and her most recent venture,

11

an upcycling furniture studio where

Melissa gives homeware a new lease of

12

life and also hosts creative workshops.

13

So as you can see, Melissa does a

lot of things, um, and she spoke

14

about all of them with me today.

15

So I'm so excited to share with you, um,

all the different businesses that she

16

runs, how she manages, um, doing so many

things or not, as the case might be.

17

Um, I absolutely love how candid

and open Melissa was about, um,

18

how she makes things work and

how sometimes things don't work.

19

She also gave some really good

copywriting tips of products, businesses.

20

As I mentioned, um, Melissa's day

job is as a copywriter, and she has

21

some great advice about how to write

really compelling product pages

22

for your products, particularly

when you're selling online.

23

Um, so definitely, definitely tune in

for this whole conversation with Melissa.

24

I think you're really going to enjoy it.

25

Hi, Melissa.

26

Thank you so much for being here.

27

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

Thank you for having me.

28

Vicki Weinberg: Oh, you're welcome.

29

Can we start with you?

30

Please give an introduction to

yourself, your businesses, plural,

31

and what you sell and what you do.

32

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Okay.

33

So I am Melissa.

34

Um, I have been a

copywriter for 13 years now.

35

So I started quite early while

I was still at university.

36

Um, because my teaching plans had sort

of gone out of the window once I actually

37

got into a classroom and realized I

wasn't really that keen, but I loved

38

the subject, I loved English that I

was studying, and I also had a bit of

39

a business bug, so I really felt that

once I discovered copywriting in the

40

world of marketing, that that really

it was going to be a good fit for me.

41

So from then, that's pretty

much all the work I pursued.

42

But I also had a little bit of an

artsy, creative side to me that I

43

feel like at the time when I was

like early 20s, I didn't necessarily

44

have the confidence to pursue.

45

Um, but then sort of mid twenties, I

thought, okay, well, I've worked in

46

branding and marketing for long enough.

47

I've seen the inside of this now.

48

I actually feel like I could give it a go.

49

So I launched Honey Bee Home,

50

And then I started to upcycle

furniture a few years after that.

51

So I think I've been doing

52

Vicki Weinberg: Oh, brilliant.

53

Thank you.

54

Thank you for introducing all of that.

55

Um, so you have quite a lot going

on Melissa, and I know you started

56

businesses at various times.

57

Um, how, and I know this is a big

question, but how do you manage,

58

um, doing all of these things?

59

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

You know, sometimes I don't.

60

And, um, that's one thing I've had

to learn is that I'm only one person

61

whose brain has many tabs open at once.

62

Um, so for me, the way I've

tried to get on top of that

63

and manage that is by sometimes

hiring help, not all of the time.

64

So thank goodness for freelancers

because they honestly, they

65

keep the world turning, I feel.

66

Um, so occasionally when we're

very, very busy, I will have, um,

67

someone who will do the graphic

design for me, for the socials.

68

Um, and for things like our look books

and the little packs that go out to

69

the press and that sort of thing.

70

I'll have assistance with that.

71

Um, and I did have a part time social

media manager at one point in time.

72

Um, I haven't replaced her just yet

because I'd started to move in a

73

different direction with the brand.

74

I thought I can't bring someone

else into this chaos until I

75

figured out what I'm doing.

76

Um, so yeah.

77

It really is just knowing that you

can do it all, just not all at once.

78

And I think that's a very tough lesson

I've had to learn actually, especially

79

finding out that I probably have

undiagnosed ADHD, which made a lot

80

of sense once I figured out what it

was in, in sense of like how my brain

81

works and how I have all the ideas I

want to do all of the things at once.

82

Um, so yeah, I, I get help when I can.

83

And, um, just try to stay

on top of everything.

84

Batching content I found

is the most useful.

85

I don't always do it, but when I do, I

thank, I thank myself for being organized.

86

Vicki Weinberg: Well, thank you for being

so honest about that because it is, it's

87

really easy to look at someone who's doing

a lot and go, how are they doing it all?

88

Um, so thank you for being so honest

about the fact that one is that

89

you're not always doing it all.

90

Because I think for anyone who's got

more than one thing on the go, whether

91

that's like more than one business or

whether that's a business and another

92

job or family or whatever the things are.

93

Often you do feel like you're dropping

a couple of balls, but not everyone

94

is open to sort of saying that.

95

So I think that's really useful and

reassuring for people to hear that it

96

is possible to do all of the things.

97

And it actually doesn't matter whether

you're doing all of the things all

98

of the time or whether you're getting

help or however you're doing it.

99

Because it sounds like you're passionate

about all three of your businesses.

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So I guess the main thing is that

you're getting to do them all.

101

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

Yeah, definitely.

102

And I feel enormously sort of

privileged to be someone who

103

has a lot of creative ideas.

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And so I feel like that passion

kind of comes from a little bit of

105

an urgency to actually pursue them

and not see anything go to waste.

106

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah, that makes sense.

107

Let's talk about all of your

businesses in turn, if that's okay.

108

So you mentioned that you started out as

a copywriter and, um, I hope you don't

109

mind, but since I have you on the podcast,

I would love to know if you have any tips

110

for specifically for product businesses.

111

So when you're writing about your

products or product pages, um, yeah.

112

And again, I know that's a big question,

so we can break that down, but, um, yeah.

113

What would your advice be, Melissa?

114

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: No, absolutely.

115

Um, my, a lot of my experience

actually came from e commerce.

116

So I used to work for a company

who would do the copywriting and

117

the photography and imagery for

some very large household names.

118

So once I'd seen the inside of the way

that that business ran, it helped me not

119

only in turning out copy very quickly,

but also having a system for doing so.

120

So I'm happy to share that because

I really feel like it helps.

121

If you have a product business, first

of all, the product page needs to

122

have as much information as possible.

123

You can never give someone too much

information because I, you would be

124

shocked at the amount of like large

brands who miss off things like

125

measurements, who won't photograph

something from more than one angle.

126

So just as much info as you

can give someone, your product

127

page actually is very powerful.

128

Um, I think sometimes we get very

caught up on like beautiful imagery

129

or having a fabulous um, homepage,

but actually those product pages will

130

work really hard for you if you load

in as much information as you can.

131

Um, and for something like search

engine optimization, which is where

132

customers will find you on Google,

the more informative a landing page is

133

and a product page, the better chance

you have of ranking and of people

134

finding what they were looking for.

135

So, you know, um, a conversational

tone is brilliant with e commerce.

136

Um, you know, we don't have that face

to face advantage that you would have

137

with chatting with the shopkeeper.

138

So that is your chance to have your

sort of chat with your customer.

139

That may be their first encounter with

your brand, but I actually have a system.

140

Um, so I sort of write product description

by sort of bronze, silver, gold, and

141

so bronze will be the bare basics.

142

So, you know, this is a chair.

143

It's red, it has four legs, it has a back,

it has no arms, and that may be enough.

144

Someone who's very functional may just

come to your site and go, yep, that's

145

exactly what I need, and disappear.

146

And they'll buy it and

that's your transaction done.

147

Um, silver will be a little

bit more descriptive.

148

So, you know, you may mention, you

know, functions best in the office,

149

will look great in the corner of

your lounge, that sort of thing.

150

But then a gold or even a

platinum description will

151

really sell the lifestyle.

152

It's like, this is the

chair of your dreams.

153

This is where you're

going to sit and think.

154

This is where you'll wind down

after a long day at work, you know.

155

So you really, you consider their

lifestyle, you consider the kind of

156

person who will be shopping with you.

157

I think that is my next tip is to really

know your customer or to really know who

158

you would like your dream customer to be.

159

Really get into their life,

you know, where do they work?

160

How do they spend their income?

161

What kind of income do they have?

162

You know, what are their priorities?

163

What are your products going

to bring into their life?

164

Um, and then when you're talking and

when you're communicating, have that

165

person, that avatar, that customer

profile in mind, and sort of always

166

just talk as though it's just you

and them, just you and your ideal

167

customer and not everybody else.

168

Vicki Weinberg: That's so helpful.

169

Thank you.

170

And I particularly liked what you

said about having all the information

171

needed on the product page.

172

Because my pet peeve, I guess as a

customer is when I go to look at something

173

and I'm like, I don't know if this is what

I want because I've heard as a mentioned

174

on, on there or the fab or whatever

it is, or it doesn't say what sort of

175

plug it, all of these small things.

176

I feel like, um, a product page really

has to answer all of the like reasonable

177

questions that a person might ask you.

178

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Yeah, I agree.

179

And it's also sort of removing

obstacles for customers.

180

What problems might they have?

181

So.

182

When you write a page or when you've put

something together on your site, look

183

at it from your customer's perspective.

184

What problem might they run into?

185

What question have you not answered?

186

What might they come to you and ask?

187

And just remove that obstacle so it

makes the whole process for them, that

188

whole journey with you much smoother.

189

Vicki Weinberg: Well, thank you.

190

And do you have any specific advice?

191

And, um, I realize I'm dropping this

question on you, but, um, so what, as

192

you said, so this is also e commerce

and lots of people only sell their

193

products online now, and some products

are really hard to sell online.

194

I'm thinking, for example, anything with a

scent, like a candle where you are, let's

195

be honest, at a bit of a disadvantage that

someone can't pick it up and smell it.

196

Or, um, in my example, I

used to sell baby products.

197

I sold baby towels and they were really

soft and thick, but it was really hard

198

to convey that in a written description.

199

Do you have any advice for

someone who's selling a product

200

where it's harder to describe it

functionally, if that makes sense?

201

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

Yeah, that does make sense.

202

And that's a problem that I

have myself, um, selling candles

203

and fragrance and diffusers.

204

So I really think, again,

it's talking about it in the

205

context of their lifestyle.

206

So, you know, people will maybe have one

kind of scent in their kitchen, you know,

207

that'll be great for when they're cooking

and what have you, and then they'll have

208

one in their bedroom, that's maybe like a

more woody scent that helps them wind down

209

or, you know, lavender for relaxation.

210

So for me, it's describing it in context.

211

So with things like, say, for example,

you had um, lavender for, you know,

212

uh, those pillow sprays that people

love, you know, so talking about

213

it in the context that it will be

used instead of, well, this is nice.

214

They're going to look at your

product and go, okay, but why?

215

So there's always the, but why to

ask yourself and also comparing it to

216

things that they may be familiar with.

217

So if I had a candle that maybe was

an unusual scent combination, if I

218

could compare it to another sense.

219

So if I said, well, if you love

vanilla, you're going to love Oud.

220

If you love, you know, a fresh scent, then

you're going to love this citrus scent.

221

Then that may help them to

place it in like a context

222

that they are familiar with.

223

And I think that makes

it a little bit easier.

224

Vicki Weinberg: Thank you.

225

I think that's really helpful.

226

And I like what you said about how

it fits in people's lives as well,

227

because I think that really, I think

that really helps if someone can say,

228

okay, this is how I might use this.

229

Um, I think that kind of makes

it a bit more persuasive than

230

just the features of a product.

231

I think if you can get an idea of the

benefits and how it might fit into

232

your life, that's a, for me anyway,

as a customer, I know that I'm much

233

more compelled to buy something

if I can see how I might use it.

234

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Yeah.

235

I agree.

236

Um, you know, for things

like gifting as well.

237

I love when it gets split into the

categories of like, well, this is a

238

gift for the person who has everything.

239

This is a gift for what he

loves, thrills and adventures.

240

This is, you know, for

wellness and relaxation.

241

So always just considering its purpose.

242

And like you said, the benefits

of features is brilliant because

243

straight away you've answered

questions for them straight away.

244

They're going to be able to

consider where this will fit in.

245

Vicki Weinberg: That's really helpful.

246

Thank you.

247

And let's talk a little bit

about your own products, Melissa.

248

So you mentioned that you had a love

for design and that's what inspired

249

you to set up Honeybee Homes.

250

So when, um, remind us when

that was and talk a little bit

251

about how you went about that.

252

So from having the idea of you'd like

to do something in e commerce, um, how

253

exactly did the business get started?

254

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: It, it was

a little bit of a long journey, um,

255

probably longer than it needed to be.

256

So way back in 2013, I was in a

charity shop and this was sort of

257

when upcycling and, um, giving like

furniture and homeware a new lease

258

of life was really taking off.

259

Um, and I bought a table and

I thought, I am going to paint

260

this and I'm going to sell it.

261

Uh, lots of other people are

doing it, I could do that.

262

But then I quickly ran

into a few problems.

263

So I didn't have a space to work from.

264

So it would make upcycling the

pieces a little bit tricky.

265

Um, I thought, well, you know,

I'm not going, I'm not going

266

to necessarily set up a shop.

267

I don't feel like I have the sort

of know how to do that right now.

268

There has to be something

ready to go alongside it.

269

So that was where the idea for

Honey Bee Home came from, because

270

the, ready to go, sort of bought in

curated products were going to sit

271

alongside my upcycled furniture.

272

And I thought, well, that's nice and easy

because if someone came across my site

273

and all they wanted was a candle holder

and not an upcycled side table, then

274

they can have the candle holder and go.

275

So the idea of it being a boutique

really took off in my head and

276

I was like, yeah, this is great.

277

I'll have a nice curated selection

of products for people and you know,

278

it'll be the nice finishing touches for

their home and for their living space.

279

And I focused on two areas

of the house to begin with.

280

So, um, living spaces that were sort of

communal and the bedroom, because you will

281

find a lot of crossover in terms of things

like soft furnishings, candle holders,

282

um, you know, that sort of thing, throws.

283

And so I was like, well,

that's nice and easy.

284

I'll focus on those two spaces.

285

So honing in on the idea, it started

to sort of bring itself to life a

286

little bit and the upcycled furniture

idea, I kind of pushed to the side.

287

Um, I found, I think it was Autumn Fair.

288

Um, the big trade show that happens at the

NEC on, I think it's an interior blogger

289

who I was following and she visited and

I thought, oh, that looks really good.

290

That looks like it could help to

feed my idea that I've now been

291

clinging on to at this point

for, I think, two or three years.

292

So I went along to the show, I

found all these amazing suppliers

293

and designers and I just thought,

you know, I need to go for this.

294

So I pulled together some funding.

295

I've sort of bought the first range, um,

had it photographed by a photographer

296

that I know who did really lovely e

commerce photography and then sort

297

of ran with the idea from there.

298

Did a small launch campaign and

just helped kind of ask people

299

to help me spread the word.

300

And that was it.

301

I thought, you know, I've seen

how brands run on a large scale.

302

I can definitely make it

work as a small independent.

303

Let's give it a go.

304

And that's kind of what

happened from there.

305

So I would just buy in, um, really

beautiful homeware and pieces that I

306

thought went really well together as well.

307

I, I really wanted customers to come

to Honeybee home and know what they

308

were getting and it wasn't going

to be random and, you know, um,

309

anything that resembled a jumble sale.

310

Um, I really wanted it to be like a

curated, um, experience experience.

311

And that's what it became.

312

It's evolved over time.

313

So.

314

I went from just homeware

to introducing gift as well.

315

That really helped because it

meant I could diversify the

316

product offering a little bit.

317

Um, and then, yeah, from there

it's kind of taken on its own life

318

in terms of the look and feel.

319

I, for some reason, had deviated from

what I liked in terms of homeware, which

320

is very sort of, I love leopard print.

321

I'll put leopard print on

pretty much anything, anywhere.

322

Um, and I just remember thinking, oh,

that's not really what people like.

323

I think at that time, the industrial

kind of vibe was really big then.

324

So sort of, um, a lot of black metal

and, um, yeah, that kind of industrial

325

sort of look and very plain colors.

326

And over time, especially, I think

maybe the start of last year, I looked

327

and just thought this isn't, this isn't

a brand I would shop with anymore.

328

And there are some people who do and

they love it, but I felt like it was

329

a good time to really lean into what

I, what I liked and it's worked.

330

People love the sort of maximalist,

bold colours, clashing patterns.

331

And so we've, we started going

through a little bit of a brand

332

transformation over the last few

months where the look and feel is

333

changing sort of what I, and I like

the direction that we're headed in now.

334

Vicki Weinberg: Well,

that's really exciting.

335

And I think you're right.

336

When you look at your site, you

can, everything does kind of fit.

337

So do you have like really set criteria

for the products that you want to sell?

338

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Um, there

isn't a strict set of criteria.

339

I feel like I've learned a few things

that helped me to make decisions now.

340

So I know what just does not sell.

341

So things that I was really enthusiastic

about, super keen, very excited,

342

and my customers just weren't.

343

So, uh, for a time we did have a, quite

a large range of gift, um, not gift,

344

uh, greetings cards, and it just didn't

take off, uh, during the lockdown period

345

it did really well because we offered a

service where people would write their

346

message, we would send the card for

them and that was, you know, helping

347

people to keep in touch with each other.

348

But after that, I think I got a little

bit too excited and I designed a few

349

cards and I thought, okay, well, this

is our moment, you know, we're going

350

to break into stationery and, and

greeting cards and it just didn't happen.

351

And, um, yeah, I just accepted that.

352

And so I won't stock things

that I know don't sell.

353

So we don't stock a lot of lamps that

plug in, because one of my promises to my

354

customers was that it would be a lot of

renter friendly product and so there are

355

so many amazing battery operated lights

out there and so my promise is to always

356

have a range of battery operated lighting.

357

So that's one thing I really stick to.

358

We are sort of moving away from a lot of

neutrals and sort of leaning into that

359

sort of dark and more maximalist vibe.

360

I love, um, really rich colours.

361

And so then it's not a strict criteria

now, but I definitely feel as though

362

I shop with a few things in mind.

363

We don't stock faux plants because

they don't sell, but they will

364

absolutely fly off of the websites.

365

And so, um, yeah, it's using the data,

which is, I'm not a data person at all,

366

but I worked with a retail coach and

she helped me to use the data that I

367

have to inform decisions moving forward.

368

Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

369

Thank you.

370

And I think it makes total sense what

you're saying, that because you've

371

been running for years now, you

have that experience, you know, what

372

your customers will and won't buy.

373

And it's also really interesting what

you were saying about the plants that,

374

you know, there are people buying them

from other websites, but not you, which I

375

guess is all about knowing your customer.

376

So would you say that it's getting

easier the longer you're going to

377

kind of gauge what your customers are

looking for and what's likely to sell?

378

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

I think so, definitely.

379

And one thing that I found really

interesting is that the customer I

380

thought I was aiming for is not who

my customer has turned out to be.

381

So I am a millennial.

382

Um, and so the site that I had put

together and the look and feel and the

383

way that I was buying, was buying in,

was aimed towards, like, millennials

384

who were renting, maybe saving for

their first property, hence the battery

385

operated lighting, that sort of thing.

386

And then what I found over time was

that our demographic was actually split

387

50 50, so there are people, a lot of

people my age, um, and who are in my

388

sort of similar living situation, who

buy from Honeybee Home, but then there

389

are also a lot of customers, I would

say the majority, actually, maybe more

390

than 50 50, who are around, say, my

mum's age, um, and her sisters, and

391

they're, uh, you know, 50s ish, and

they've got a little bit more disposable

392

income, and their, their lifestyle is

different, and they buy in a different

393

way, they want different information,

um, they have different buying habits.

394

I'll see, you know, more frequent visits,

um, but they'll maybe spend more at once.

395

They may spend longer making a decision,

but when they do, they're very set.

396

And so looking at buyer behaviour as

well has been very interesting and

397

figuring out who our customer is as well.

398

Vicki Weinberg: And how do you get all

that information about your customers?

399

, Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: some,

sometimes it's been in person events.

400

Um, so very occasionally I'll do sort of

a Christmas market sort of thing or, um,

401

corporate events as well, where they'll

bring me into uh, sort of set up a pop up

402

for their, um, their employees and I just

see like who gravitates towards when you

403

be, um, and sometimes I'll look at the

information in the back end of Shopify

404

if, um, if, if it has that available to

show me, but yeah, a lot of the time it's

405

been from, uh, in person interactions and,

um, yeah, how it's spread word of mouth

406

as well, just like, oh, I know so and so,

and oh, you know, my mum shops with you.

407

And, um, yeah, that's where

the info comes from, mainly.

408

So our analytics and then

our in person interactions.

409

Vicki Weinberg: That's really interesting.

410

Thank you.

411

And I was, because I was wondering

if you were going to tell me you

412

had some like crazy analytics tool

that could give you all this data.

413

And I was thinking, wow, that's amazing.

414

But it's actually sounds to me,

better, that you actually know your

415

customers and you get to talk to

them because that's the best way, I

416

guess, of figuring out who they are.

417

And I mean, I know analytics have their

place, but actually knowing who's buying

418

from you, I think is really useful.

419

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

Definitely, and I love those.

420

It's only a few and far between, but I

love those occasions where I do get to

421

meet customers and I, I get to see how

they interact with the products as well.

422

So, you know, they can pick up

the candle and hold it in the

423

air and see what it smells like.

424

And, you know, is this going to

look nice on my sideboard and

425

yeah, it's just really interesting.

426

The sort of questions that people ask

you about products in person as well.

427

Vicki Weinberg: And so did you, um, so

just coming back to when you started.

428

Did you source your first

products from Autumn Fair?

429

Is that where you found

the stockists originally?

430

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

Yes, that's right.

431

And so it was brilliant for me because

I actually got to see, um, you know,

432

sometimes it's the person who designed the

products I was looking at, which is great.

433

Um, but that show in particular, just

having a lot of the suppliers all in one

434

place, I'd started to sort of curate the

collection in my head as I was walking

435

around because I'd go to one supplier

and then find something in another

436

supplier and so the range really started

to pull itself together from being

437

able to see everything in one place.

438

Vicki Weinberg: So you mentioned that

you originally, Melissa, you were

439

sourcing most of your products in person.

440

Are you still doing that now?

441

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Yes.

442

So I get to as many trade shows as I can

because I really do love those, um, in

443

person event, just in the sense that I

can see what something looks like, maybe

444

from their catalogue in front of me.

445

Also, a lot of those shows,

they will showcase their

446

newest collections at the show.

447

And so, you may have exclusive

access to what it looks like.

448

And very occasionally, there

will be a show discount as well,

449

which I make use of sometimes.

450

Um, And as much as I like to look

online, I do find that going to the

451

shows and, you know, there'll be a

talk as well sometimes, and so, from

452

an educational perspective, I'm always

learning as like a brand owner and as

453

a buyer, um, and, you know, a lot of

these suppliers will have like a really

454

beautiful showroom that you can visit.

455

And so I make use of showroom

appointments as well, where you

456

get that one to one interaction

with their, with their sales team.

457

You can ask all of the questions

and, you know, spend time,

458

just, I love just mooching.

459

I love walking around and

just having a look at things.

460

So, um, I'll sort of have set dates in

my calendar that I'll make with suppliers

461

and I'll go and I'll have a look at

the things in, in person, because, you

462

know, it may change your mind about a

product you weren't that sure about.

463

It may, you may spot something

there that you didn't see online.

464

Um, so I really like to do a mix of both.

465

If I'm sort of just topping up a range

and I know what I'm getting, then

466

I can make an order quite easily.

467

But if I'm really like having a

good think about what will be coming

468

up in the next few months, I do

like to go in person when I can.

469

Vicki Weinberg: That makes a lot of sense.

470

I was actually at a trade

show in London last week.

471

And I also like going to trade

shows because you get to meet

472

people, you get to speak to them.

473

Like you said, seeing the product

face to face, there's nothing, you

474

know, that's, you can't compare

that to the experience online.

475

And it's also really interesting

to see what sort of trends are

476

coming through and things like that,

because you start to spot that.

477

I didn't know whether it's bright colours

or it's gifting or whatever it is.

478

You can sort of see what's

popular at the time.

479

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

Yeah, that's it for sure.

480

Like, I saw so many toadstools at the

last show that I went to because they're

481

just so trendy right now and people are

so into them and you just, sometimes

482

you just would never know unless you,

you know, once you're walking around

483

and you, you spot so many of one thing.

484

And over the years, you know, I've

started to get to know, um, suppliers

485

and I feel like having a good

relationship with them is so important.

486

You know, there'll be when I have run

out of a product and I'm very stuck and

487

I don't know when it's coming back in.

488

Just being able to pick up the phone

and have the name of the person, um,

489

and to know who you want to speak with.

490

Um, you know, just those having

good relationships like that makes

491

running the business so much smoother.

492

Um, you may need to pull in a favour here

and there, you know, just they're really

493

important for things like, if we really

get into the business side of things like

494

cashflow and just, you know, minimum order

quantities, having an actual relationship

495

with someone and being able to ask them.

496

And, you know, if that, you know,

once it's built on trust, you, you

497

have a much smoother experience as a

business owner, but these are things

498

that you will only learn over time.

499

So you know, start sooner than I did.

500

Vicki Weinberg: That makes a lot of sense.

501

And while I definitely think there's a

place for sourcing products online, I

502

think if you are in a position where you

can do it face to face, it really helps.

503

Like you say, it's like it just builds

in relationships and particularly when

504

you run on your own business, and if you

work on your own, it's just nice to have

505

relationships with, with real people

rather than doing everything virtually.

506

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: And, and those

shows are, um, such a nice experience

507

and a good chance to catch up with

other people in the industry as well.

508

So the retail coach that I worked with,

I've then seen at other trade shows

509

and we've just, you know, had a wander

around and grabbed a coffee and running

510

a small business can be quite lonely.

511

Um, you know, day to day when it's just

you and your social media schedule and

512

you know, the orders coming in, it can

feel a little bit lonely sometimes.

513

And so, so much effort

goes into those shows.

514

It's nice to sort of go along and be

able to catch up with some familiar

515

faces and trade stories and, you

know, see who's new on the scene.

516

And, you know, there's just a,

a nice sort of energy to it.

517

And I, I enjoyed those

days out of the studio.

518

Vicki Weinberg: Yeah.

519

It's always nice to just get out

and go somewhere different for sure.

520

Um, so let's talk a little bit

now about your upcycling business.

521

So I know that is up on where

you mentioned that you obviously,

522

that was the plan, right?

523

In 2013, I think you said, and

obviously honeybee home came first.

524

So, but now you are.

525

I was about to say up and up cycling.

526

That sounds silly, but you know what I

mean, that business is up and running.

527

Is that right?

528

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: It is.

529

That is right.

530

So it was, I think 2020 when

I sold my first piece online.

531

So this was a customer who had

come to me via Etsy and not just,

532

uh, family member or a friend.

533

Um, this was my first, like,

what I thought was a legit sale.

534

I was like, right, this is so exciting.

535

So I heard it, that coaching

notification that you get.

536

And I looked and I was like, Tennessee.

537

Oh, that's a lot of postage.

538

And so another thing I've had to learn is

just like overcoming logistics problems.

539

But I sold my first table on Etsy.

540

Um, just over three years ago and she

left me a five star review and the whole

541

experience is really lovely but I had

wanted to do the furniture upcycling

542

for a very long time like I said.

543

And I, I sort of do regret procrastinating

as much as I did, because I feel like

544

well you know could I be streaks ahead now

but um so many other things have filled

545

that time and that space in between.

546

I really feel like I've sort of come full

circle and actually this version of me

547

is much more knowledgeable and probably

have you know, manage to not make some of

548

the mistakes, mistakes I would have made

if I'd started, uh, when I wanted to.

549

So yeah, I have my own website and then

I sell on various of the platforms.

550

Um, because you just don't know where

people are going to find you with the

551

furniture upcycling because it is, I

find, a much more personal experience

552

where someone commissions you, say they're

handing over, you know, an heirloom,

553

you know, a cabinet that's been in their

family for decades and meant a lot to

554

them, for them to hand that over to you

and for you to be able to assist them

555

in like bringing out, you know, a new

style or, or putting a new design on it

556

is, it's a very personal experience and

so, I started to do more of that work

557

and then I found a lovely unit to work

from, which just so happens to be over

558

the road from my existing unit and so I

took that as a sign to really go for it.

559

And then, yeah, from there

I've really just fleshed out

560

ideas for the actual business.

561

So it's not just an upcycling studio.

562

It's also where I run creative workshops.

563

And so the idea, this is sort of

the new baby in terms of business.

564

But this studio I feel has massive

potential to be a real hive of,

565

of creativity and activity, not

just for me, but for others.

566

Vicki Weinberg: That's really exciting.

567

And yeah, and one more thing for

you to fit in somehow as well.

568

That is really interesting.

569

And I was a bit confused of the upcycling

because I thought maybe you can put me

570

wrong, maybe you are doing this as well.

571

So I thought you were buying

pieces or sourcing pieces and

572

upcycling them and selling them on.

573

Are you doing that as well as

taking on commissions as well?

574

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: That's right.

575

Yeah.

576

So, um, in the sort of upcycling

community and industry, those are

577

the two most common ways that people

will have their work out there.

578

So they will be feeling creative

themselves and go, well, I see this

579

nest of tables and I want it to

become, you know, this design and I

580

want it to be three different colours.

581

And, you know, they'll do

it in sort of their style.

582

And then I feel that's where the

commission work will follow because

583

a customer will find you, they

will like your particular style,

584

um, and how you do things and then

sort of approach you from there.

585

But yeah, that it sort of the, the

main bulk of the work is that, I

586

will source p pieces that I just have

spotted somewhere or seen in maybe

587

an antique barn or a house clearance

and just thought I have to have that

588

and I'll figure out the design later.

589

I have to have that piece.

590

And so, you know, it's brilliant.

591

You're, you're saving things

from landfill, you know, really

592

well-made furniture is being

given a new lease of life.

593

And as much as places like Ikea are

very convenient and, you know, very

594

cost effective as well, and I feel

like it definitely has its place.

595

I feel like with furniture we are and

have been sort of heading in the same

596

direction as fast fashion, in that

people go, oh, well, I'll just buy

597

that and then I'll put it on the side

of the street when I'm moving because

598

it's not coming to my new house.

599

I've got a nice new house now.

600

I don't need that, that Ikea unit.

601

If we took the time to invest in existing

pieces that are really well made that are

602

going to last for, you know, centuries

in, in many cases, and sort of add,

603

I think the objective really with the

upcycling is to give people another

604

perspective and to, to give that sort

of, you know, old furniture a chance and,

605

you know, see its potential because a

lot of the time, you know, it's really

606

solid and very functional as well.

607

Very easy to change the function of

furniture, you know, maybe you don't want

608

a telephone table, but maybe you do want

somewhere to keep your records or, you

609

know, um, so I feel like with with the

upcycling that that is the objective.

610

A lot of the time is to sort of put your

spin on something that already exists.

611

Vicki Weinberg: I think you're right

as well, that it's, it's nice to

612

have that sustainability aspect of

things, not just going to landfill,

613

going to the tip or whatever it is,

because yeah, it's, and like you said,

614

you do see this for fashion as well.

615

So many things just ending up

in the bin that actually could

616

be reused and reused again.

617

Um, just maybe needs a bit

of updating or a bit of care.

618

Um, yeah, I do think it's really

nice and I do think upcycling

619

hopefully will start to grow as well.

620

And is it something that in your

studio you're thinking of teaching

621

other people how to do as well?

622

I'm just curious.

623

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Well,

I feel, I feel like it may be

624

my imposter syndrome speaking.

625

Um, where I say, oh, you know,

I don't really feel like I'm

626

in a position to teach others.

627

Um, that's not necessarily true.

628

I do feel like I have a

lot to share and impart.

629

Um, so the, with the new studio,

I want, with it, wanting to be

630

sort of a hive of activity, um,

I am running creative workshops.

631

So they're not furniture upcycling

workshops, but it's other types of craft

632

and creativity where I really feel like

it's going to be a nice space for people

633

to sort of come and just switch off for a

couple of hours, maybe bring a couple of

634

friends and just do something mindful and

to do and to have something at the end.

635

Where, you know, I feel like a lot of

us revert back to what made us happy

636

as children and, you know, just being

outside and reading and being mindful

637

and being creative and so I really just

want our workshops to be somewhere that

638

people can come along and just you know,

switch off for a little bit and just

639

leave feeling uplifted and, you know,

like they've done something worthwhile

640

for a couple of hours, but without

that pressure to be productive and to,

641

you know, always be busy, busy, busy.

642

Um, so at the moment we've got sort of

wreath making workshops that will be

643

coming up towards the end of the year and

Christmas craft and that sort of thing.

644

And so um, I love that aspect

of like teaching and hosting.

645

And so I feel like that's really

where that outlet is going to be.

646

And maybe in time I would like to

teach, um, the upcycling, but there

647

are some real experience, very

talented people in the industry

648

who were sort of spearheading that.

649

So my idea is to, I guess I would

like them to be peers one day, but I

650

feel a little bit green in that sense.

651

Vicki Weinberg: Well, I, and I know it's

easy for me to say, but I obviously think

652

you don't need to be, because I think, um,

you were talking about imposter syndrome,

653

I think that's a real thing, isn't it?

654

But I think you only need to be, to know

a little bit more than the person that

655

you're helping, if that makes sense.

656

Like I don't think you

need to be the expert.

657

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Yeah.

658

And and to be honest, I, I

probably know more than I realize.

659

Um, when you are, when you do

start teaching somebody something

660

or explain something, you think,

oh, I actually know a fair amount.

661

But I think, yeah, my focus at the

moment with the upcycling is, is making

662

my name and, and working on my style

as well, um, which tends to be leopard

663

print, gold leaf, and bold colours,

and so I'm really leaning into that,

664

and so I, my, my objective and my hope

is that people just sort of look at my

665

work and know that it's me immediately,

and I really feel like from there, my

666

reputation hopefully will go before me.

667

Vicki Weinberg: I think it will.

668

And I think it sounds really fun as well.

669

It feels like such a nice thing, because

as you said, like it's really hard

670

as adults to have a creative hobby

that you enjoy and do it for fun.

671

So I think what you're doing in your

studio is really good because I think as

672

soon as an, as an adult, you start doing

something, you immediately start feeling

673

like, oh, is this a good use of time?

674

Or is this productive?

675

Or I've definitely, I've had before

where I've been, um, I've done something

676

as a, which I thought was a hobby.

677

And someone said to me, oh,

are you going to sell that?

678

And I'm like, well, no,

I'm not going to sell that.

679

I'm doing it just for relaxation

or for fun or whatever it is.

680

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Yeah.

681

And I feel like that is

what we need more of.

682

Um, the, as horrific as the pandemic

has been and as hard as lockdown was

683

for many people, um, I do feel like

some benefited from that slowing down.

684

Um, and I, I feel like we could

all just try to slow down a little

685

bit in our, in our day to day lives

and, um, just sort of not wait

686

until we're stressed to, to do that.

687

Um, for work, because my copywriting

job means I speak to all sorts of

688

people about all sorts of things.

689

I spoke with a dermatologist and we were

discussing sort of the link between eczema

690

and stress, and he said well, honestly,

my best advice is to get ahead of stress

691

before it, you know, becomes a problem.

692

And so even, you know, medical

professionals are recommending that we try

693

to slow down and find something that makes

us feel relaxed and switch off, um, and

694

not have that pressure to be productive.

695

And, you know, there's always, you

know, if you're a parent, there's

696

always someone tugging on your arm that

needs something from you and business.

697

There'll always be a customer

that needs something.

698

There'll always be orders to go out.

699

There'll always be something to do.

700

But, um, I feel like if we can just

proactively try to relax, then we, you

701

know, we can do our work from a much

more rested place, which is much nicer.

702

Vicki Weinberg: I totally agree.

703

I know it's easier said than

done for lots of us, but yeah,

704

that's really good advice.

705

Speaking of which, I'm going to move

on to my final question, Melissa,

706

which I ask everybody, which is what

would your number one piece of advice

707

be for product creators and creatives?

708

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: I would

say that done is better than perfect.

709

Vicki Weinberg: Oh, that's interesting

because that's my mantra as well.

710

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: And I think,

I don't know if it's the same with you,

711

but I think it's just advice I've had to

give to myself, um, to keep me going, to

712

get me going a lot of the time where I

will procrastinate and procrastinate and

713

sort of fall into this perfection cycle.

714

Nothing will ever be 100%.

715

And I think if we wait for it to be,

we can talk ourselves out of things.

716

And so, I am definitely an

advocate for just making a start.

717

However, it looks at the time, you

know, if I look at my first website,

718

first version of my website, um, to now.

719

It's a completely different brand,

but I never would have got to a

720

place where I'm happy with it now.

721

And even though it's still in development

and, you know, we're still trying

722

new things, I never would have got to

that place if I hadn't just started.

723

Um, and it's very easy to say that

to someone, but then in practice,

724

you know, it's, it's much different.

725

And so I would say to have people

around you who are going to be honest.

726

Um, I have like cheerleaders

in my life who will, everything

727

I do to them is brilliant.

728

And so I'll go to them when I

need a real confidence boost.

729

But then if I need someone to sound

ideas off, you know, there are people

730

who have a lot of sense and now, you

know, help me to hone those ideas

731

in a really like constructive way.

732

Um, but just making that start,

you know, and you gain momentum.

733

Again, and being someone who more

than likely has ADHD, um, having to

734

sort of attach dopamine to mundane

tasks is something that I've learned,

735

and so, you know, however you have to

make that start, just make those first

736

few steps and the sort of the rush

that you get from stepping out there

737

is, it's, you know, it's unmatched

and that's what keeps you going.

738

Vicki Weinberg: That's really good advice.

739

Thank you so much.

740

Um, you won't be surprised here, I

couldn't agree more because I always

741

think that starting something is always

the heart, well, for me anyway, it's not

742

seeing something through, it's starting.

743

And I think as soon as you take that

first step, whatever it is, however

744

small and don't overthink it and just do

something, I think that then gives you

745

the momentum to just keep moving forwards.

746

Um.

747

Yeah, certainly I've, I've learned.

748

I've, and it's something I've had to learn

is not to overthink things and sometimes

749

just to do something and not stress too

much about whether it's the right thing or

750

the perfect thing or the best thing, but

just do a thing and take it from there.

751

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence: Definitely.

752

I mean, one small thing every,

every day, every week that, that

753

moves the dial is, is enough.

754

Vicki Weinberg: That's

really great advice.

755

Thank you so much for this.

756

I thank you for everything you

shared and for all of your time.

757

Um, yeah, and it's been great

talking to you and of course I'll

758

have links to all of your businesses

in the show notes for the episode.

759

Melissa Reynolds-Lawrence:

Thank you so much for having me.

760

It's been a pleasure.

761

Vicki Weinberg: Thank you

so much for listening right

762

to the end of this episode.

763

Do remember that you can get the

full black catalogue and lots of free

764

resources on my website, vickiweinberg.

765

com.

766

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and also share it with a friend

who you think might find it useful.

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Thank you again and see you next week.