Five things I've learned working in the Utah State Prison:

1. People are good. Treating people with respect, even when their problems seem small compared to what they're facing, opens the door to real connection.
2. We are not our worst mistake. That mistake is part of our story, but it doesn't have to define who we are.
3. Extending grace to others helps us move toward our own healing. The inmates who let go of anger toward their parents seem to move forward more easily.
4. We always have the power to choose. Kindness, our language, whether we fight. We don't have to wait for some future date to start living what we value.
5. Real change is about you and your relationship with God, not about convincing other people you've changed. Lasting change comes from wanting to be different, not from proving it to someone else.

Also mentioned:

Join Brooke for a live in person class on nervous system regulation, Thursday, September 10th at the South Jordan Community Center. $25. You can learn more about it and sign up here: https://brookeoniki.com/emotional-regulation-workshop/

Welcome to Midlife with Brooke.

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I am your host, Brooke Oniki.

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I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ,

a wife, mother, grandma,

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and a certified life coach.

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On this podcast, we talk about all things

mothering, health and emotional wellbeing.

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I share practical tools and

examples from my life and from the

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lives of my clients to help you

navigate this new season of midlife.

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It can feel tricky and confusing and

a little bit out of our comfort zone

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as our children grow up and they

don't really need us in the same way.

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These concepts and principles have changed

my life and I've watched them change

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the lives of my clients, and I hope that

they can be helpful if there are things

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that you wanna change in your life.

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So let's get started.

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Welcome to the podcast.

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I'm so glad that you're here.

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Before we start, I wanna remind you that

I'm teaching a live in-person class on

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Thursday, September 10th in South Jordan.

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We are gonna talk about nervous system

regulation and how do I learn how to

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process emotions, how do I learn how to

recognize when my body's telling me that

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I'm in fight or flight or I'm in shutdown.

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What can I do to get myself

back into a regulated state so

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that I can have constructive

communication with the people I love.

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Some of us are constantly in this

state of like, "I'm walking on pins

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and needles," or, "I don't know what to

say," or, "I don't say anything 'cause

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I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing."

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Or sometimes we're snarky or

passive-aggressive and we're

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like, "I don't like how I'm

showing up in my relationships."

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If that's who you are, come to this

class and I can help you learn how to

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understand your nervous system better

so that you can be the kind of person

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you wanna be in your relationships.

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It is powerful.

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I have taught it to businesses.

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I've taught it to individuals.

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I've taught it in groups, and

also, to my private clients.

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So fun to see it change my private clients

as they work at it week after week,

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and I wanna share this stuff with you.

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It's $25 at South Jordan Community Center,

and I'll put the link in the show notes.

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I hope that you will come Today we're

gonna talk about the things that I've

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learned working in the Utah State Prison.

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I realize this isn't a parenting

conversation, but I think the

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things I've learned there would

be very useful to you as well.

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So a couple of years ago, I had

a former client, reach out to me.

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She does a lot of prison reform

work in the State of Utah.

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She works with legislators and

government officials to try to improve

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what we do in Utah State Corrections

so that people aren't continually

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returning to the prison system.

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And she writes to lots of inmates,

and she was talking to them about

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all of the things that she had

learned through coaching, and she

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said, "They're so responsive to the

things that I talk to them about.

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I think you should go

teach classes there."

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So I went through all of the training

necessary and the background checks,

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and then two years ago, it will

be in September two years ago, I

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started teaching classes in the men's

Prison, and I have learned so much.

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I go out there every week, and I stay for

two hours, and inmates come from a certain

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facility where they have, privileges

because of their good behavior that

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allow them to come to institute classes.

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They can come and do classes like Captain

My Story or Kindness Matters, and my

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class is called Coping Skills, and I teach

them all kinds of life coaching things.

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To help them with their nervous

system regulation, to teach them

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about separating facts from stories,

We have lots of conversations

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about the definition of manhood.

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Is it beating everyone up when they

question your manhood, or is it being

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strong enough to not be easily provoked?

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Anyway, we have really deep

conversations every week, and

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it has been so rewarding for me.

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So I'm just gonna tell you five

things that I've learned since

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I've worked at the prison.

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Number one, people are good So I was

a little nervous to go out there.

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I haven't had much experience with

people who have been in prison, and my

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first hesitation was, I don't know how

they would receive a person like me.

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I am what I would consider

a privileged white female.

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I grew up in a family that loved me,

that cared for my needs, that cared for

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my physical, emotional, and spiritual

wellbeing, that cheered me on my whole

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life, and I've had a really blessed life.

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So I was a little nervous that me

walking into a facility like this and

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talking with people who had been through

such horrific things themselves and

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then also had created more challenges

for others that they were now dealing

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with, that somehow they might look at

me and say, "Who do you think you are?"

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and, "What makes you think you

have anything to teach us?"

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But I've actually found it

to be exactly the opposite.

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I remember after I'd been teaching

there for a while, I told them that.

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I said, "I was worried when I first

came that you might think, yeah, as

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if she has anything to teach us."

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And one of the inmates said to me,

"The reason we love you so much is

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because you treat us like people."

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'Cause when I first started, I didn't

really have any examples from their

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lives that I could use, so I just used

examples from my life and examples

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from my clients' lives, and it felt

like maybe the things we were worried

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about were really small potatoes

compared to what they were dealing with.

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And so I thought maybe they would think,

"Oh, yeah, as if that's hard," or, "Oh, so

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you had a disagreement with your spouse?"

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it seemed like those were really little

things compared to them keep figuring

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out how to have better relationships

with their families that they had hurt so

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much, or learning to forgive themselves

for the crimes they had committed, or

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learning how to take radical ownership

of their own mistakes instead of blaming

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others, and facing their addictions.

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they have some pretty big things that

they're having to face and deal with,

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and so I thought maybe they would

think I was silly or that my problems

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were small or that my solutions for

those things wouldn't work for them.

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But I have found that as I treat them

with respect and as I talk to them

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about problems that are just pretty

ordinary that they have a lot of ordinary

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problems too, that they also have to

deal with getting along with people

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Lots of them live in cells with eight

people, and they have to learn to get

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along with people who have volatile

tempers or maybe are really negative

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Or have broad mood swings.

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So they are in their own culture and

bumping up against people who don't

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think the way they do or feel the way

they do, people that they can't control.

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so I've found that in a lot of

ways our situations are similar.

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We're all in relationship with others.

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We're all learning to deal with people

when we treat people like people

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who deserve respect and kindness

and consideration, they respond,

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and I have found that to be the

case as I work with these inmates.

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When they are addiction-free and

have opportunities to learn, they

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are the best version of themselves.

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I had one inmate say to me one

day, I feel so blessed to be here."

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I, I am the best version of myself here.

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I'm learning, I'm growing, I'm

reading books, I'm exercising, I have

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a job, I consistently go to my job.

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And so when they are free from this

world of pressures that they had on

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the outside, they're learning how to

live in a constructive way, and that's

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something they still have to choose

because there are drug problems in the

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prison, and there are gangs, and there

are things that are-- They can still

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stay in these really negative loops.

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So I have a lot of respect for the ones

who choose to rise above that and decide

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that they're gonna make changes in their

life and are determined to learn what

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they need to learn so that they don't

make these same mistakes over and over.

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Number two, we're not our worst mistake

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That mistake is part of our story, but

it is not who we are we can move forward.

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People in my class are allowed to come

because they keep the rules, which earns

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them opportunities to come to classes.

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They get to move into a part of the

prison where there's less violence.

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There are opportunities to come

to institute, to come to classes

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They can learn to play instruments.

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They can knit and crochet

and do humanitarian things.

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So they get lots of opportunities

for growth as they keep the rules,

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and it's really impressive to see

the kind of growth that they make.

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I have had an inmate say to

me, " I can't forgive myself

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because it would be irresponsible.

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I've hurt so many people that forgiving

myself would somehow free me from

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the agony that I think I deserve."

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And so he wasn't really interested

in forgiving himself and moving on.

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But I do have other inmates who say,

"I'm paying my debt to society, and

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I'm choosing to change and become

a different version of myself.

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Instead of defining myself by my

worst mistake, I'm choosing to

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change and be a different man now."

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So I think that's interesting as well.

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Do we have a belief system that

keeps us stuck in where we are,

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or can we have beliefs about

ourselves that we can change, that

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we can grow and become different?

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Do we believe in God's ability

to heal us and forgive us of the

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things that we've done wrong?

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Can we start examining our lives

and recognizing what patterns got us

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to where we are right now, and what

patterns we could change so that we

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could leave those parts of us behind

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It is so fascinating to me to see how

different people view their mistakes.

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Some of them have really examined

themselves And they're trying to make

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peace with why those things happened,

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We have so many interesting conversations

about when they're on the outside, how

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soon do you tell someone about your

crime when you're applying for a job

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or you're in a romantic relationship?

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Lots of them have fears that if I

share my mistakes too quickly, people

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won't give me a chance, but if I wait

too long, they'll be suspicious of me

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that maybe I'm hiding other things.

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And they all have different

thoughts about that.

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Some of them walk into a job interview

and just immediately tell them what

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they've done and, and then say, "If

you're interested in having me work

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for you, I'll bring you my resume."

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And other people feel like, "Oh, I

wanna, you know, get my foot in the

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door and have a couple of interviews

before I mention these things to them."

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So it's very fascinating how

everybody feels really different.

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but the thing I think is important

is that we are not our worst mistake.

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Whether you've been to prison or not,

we all have made mistakes in our lives,

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things we've done that we've regretted

and wished could be different, and I can

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either focus on that and have all kinds

of shame and guilt and keep myself stuck

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there, or I can move through it and make

it a part of my story that taught me to

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grow and learn and repent, that changed

my relationship with God and Jesus Christ.

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I can let that mistake

transform my soul if I choose

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And I've seen it.

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I've seen it in inmates who have

decided to let God in their lives,

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and their countenances are different

and their ability to move forward

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and to feel hopeful is so clear and

evident, and it's been such a strength

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to me to see that in them, and it's

also encouraged me to let go of my

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own errors and move forward in faith.

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Number three, extending grace to others

helps us move forward in our healing.

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The inmates tell me stories about

their childhoods that are so tragic,

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so difficult, and I'm super impressed

with their willingness to have grace for

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their parents, even though many of them

were not parented particularly well.

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Lots of them had a lot of neglect, uh, a

lot of drug abuse amongst their parents,

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or single parents, or they're, they were

gone a lot, or high a lot, or, you know,

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just all these things that they weren't

really parented with much intention.

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And I've been impressed with the

way they've been able to have

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compassion for their parents.

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And maybe it's because of the mistakes

they've made themselves, but I have found

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that the ones who are willing to let go

of their anger towards their parents, it

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seems easier for them to move forward.

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And that has caused me to think,

"Do I extend grace to others that

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I feel like have harmed me in some

way, or labeled me in some way?

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Can I extend grace to those people?"

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I really believe that if I can, It just

frees me up to move forward, 'cause

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I'm not so tied up in the wrongs that

others have done to me or created for

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me, and that is a beautiful learning

that I've learned from the inmates.

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Number four, you always

have the power to choose.

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Even though they're incarcerated,

they get to choose whether

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or not they're gonna be kind.

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They get to choose the

language that they use.

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They get to choose whether or not

they're gonna fight Those are some

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common things that we talk about.

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There's a lot of volatility in

prison, lots of people trying to

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prove their manhood, so we have many

conversations about what a real man is.

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Is a real man someone who stands up and

fight when someone questions his manhood,

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or is a real man someone who's willing

to not fight, who's willing to say,

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I don't want a write-up.

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I don't wanna get in trouble, so

you can get mad at me, but I'm

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not gonna do anything in return"?

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I had one inmate tell me a story

about someone getting mad at him and

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starting to hit him, and he said, "I

was not gonna fight, no matter what."

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So he said, "I just-

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Kind of bent myself over and

held my arms close to my body.

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And as he was beating me up, I just

kept saying to myself, "I'm going home.

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I'm going home to my wife and family

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And you can beat me up as much as

you want, but I'm going home And

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so that day we talked about that.

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Like, what is a real man?

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Is it that pride part of us that

says, "You're not gonna disrespect

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me," or, "I have to prove to you that

I'm stronger than you, that I can

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have some sort of dominance over you?

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Or is it the man who looks ahead

and says, "What I really want

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is to be with my wife and my kids.

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And so I'm not gonna let you provoke me

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And most of us aren't

experiencing things like that.

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I've never had anyone try to beat me up.

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I've never had anyone

question my womanhood.

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And so that's not something I deal with.

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But I do think that sometimes I

don't look at the long view, that

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I sometimes am impulsive and do the

thing that I want today instead of

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the thing that I want long-term.

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And so learning how to make decisions

based on those long-term desires.

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What kind of relationship do I wanna

have with this child, and what would

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it look like today to build on that?

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What kind of a relationship do I

wanna have with my health, and so

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what would I do today to make sure

that I was working in that direction?

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Do I exercise?

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What do I eat?

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What kind of movement do I get?

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What kind of sunlight do I get?

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What kinds of things am I doing

to reach those long-term goals?

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And so we always have the power to choose.

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I have one inmate who decided

maybe a year ago that he was gonna

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quit swearing, and he said, "It's

really hard not to swear in here.

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Everyone swears in here."

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Which maybe isn't fully true, but

most people swear a lot in prison.

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And he was a big swearer, and he said,

"I just decided to take it a little bit

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at a time," and now he doesn't swear.

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And he said, "I feel like I've mastered

this part of myself that was so hard

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for me, and now I feel like I'm capable

of mastering even bigger things because

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I've been able to master my language."

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So I love that he is working on

his own personal growth instead

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of waiting until he gets released,

'cause that's a common thing.

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When I'm out of here, I'm gonna

do this and this and this.

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When I get on the outside,

then I'm going to…

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But my encouragement to them is

why would we wait until this later

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date to start making changes when

I can make changes right now?

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When I can learn to get along

with the people that I work with

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here or the people in my cell.

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Like, there are so many relationships

right here that I can work on right

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now, that when I get on the outside,

I will be even more prepared.

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And so choosing to work on those

relationships right now is beautiful.

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Choosing kindness, choosing to manage

our appetites, how we take care of

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our body, if we get a job, if we learn

how to not fight, all of those things.

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If I can choose to manage those now,

I'll have all those skills that I get to

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take with me when I get on the outside.

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So I do think it really

relates to us now as well.

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Am I waiting until certain

things happen before I make time?

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Am I waiting until I don't have a job

before I dive into the scriptures?

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Am I waiting till I'm not babysitting

my grandkids before I start to exercise?

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Am I waiting for some later time

when it will be easier to do

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those things that I say I value?

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Those are some good questions.

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we do the things that we value, and so

I have to decide if I say that I value

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spirituality, that I value relationships,

that I value my health, what am I doing

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to work towards that right now, or am I

waiting for some better more convenient

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time before I start doing those things?

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And number five, your change has to be

about you, you and your relationship

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with God, and not about convincing

other people that you've changed.

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So many times inmates want their

kids to know that they're different.

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They want their wife or their

ex-wife or their partner to

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know that they've changed, or

their parents or their siblings.

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Like, they just want the people

on the outside that they love

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to know that they're different

and that they've changed.

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And so they'll come to me and say,

"I write letters to my kids every

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week, and they never respond.

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I call all my kids every week,

and they never answer my calls."

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And it's really, really

discouraging to them.

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And I try to talk to them about how their

kids are having their own experience

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with having an incarcerated father,

and maybe they're not ready to forgive

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you, and maybe they're not ready to

accept that you've changed, or maybe

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they've tried to trust you in the past

and you have then disappointed them.

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So we can't worry about

what their experience is.

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The change that we make has to

be because we want to change.

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And if we know, and we know that

God knows that we've changed,

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that's all we can control.

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And if when we get to the outside and

we build trust with our kids and we

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let them know, they may let us back

into their lives, and they may not.

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But if I've changed because

I wanna be different, then

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that will be lasting change.

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If I'm doing it to prove to someone

else and then they don't see it, then

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it's like, "Well, why did I even try?

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They don't even care.

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they don't even see that I've changed."

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So we've got to really understand that

any kind of change that we're trying

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to make is because that's who we wanna

be, and that we wanna align ourselves

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with God because that's who we wanna be.

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And if other people see it and want

to be a part of my life, that's

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frosting on the cake, but I'm not

doing it for them I'm doing it for me

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Because I wanna be a different person

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So in our own lives

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Any change that we make isn't to prove

to other people that we're worthy or

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good or different than we were before.

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We want to transform ourselves because

we want to be more like the Savior.

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We want to be more aligned with the

things that we value, and we're doing

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that because that's who we wanna be.

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And who we are will

reveal itself over time.

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I tell people all the time, you do

not need to muddy the waters for

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your kids about your ex-spouse.

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He will reveal himself over time.

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And I know that you want him to know

right now how he betrayed you and hurt

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you, but you just let it all unveil

itself They will know who he is over

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time, and hopefully he'll change, and

they'll have a good father who loves them.

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But if he doesn't, You don't

need to be the one who lets

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them know how awful he's been.

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He can reveal himself over time.

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And so if we have changed and become a

better person, that will reveal itself

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over time as we're consistent and loving

and kind, as we keep our commitments

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in our family life, as we hold down

a job and do honorable and noble

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work, we reveal ourselves over time.

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Our character is what we develop

and reveal And if I have changed

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over time, the people who care

about me will see that change.

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If you have betrayed trust over

and over again, it may take a long

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time before people can see that or

give you a chance again, and we may

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have to build new relationships.

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You may have to get a

new wife and start again.

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You may need to get a

new job and start again.

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But it's worth starting again.

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It's worth doing those things because you

are a changed and transformed individual.

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You have learned from what you've

experienced, and you can now move

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forward in that new version of

yourself, who's gonna make mistakes

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and who's gonna struggle because

it's not like we learn what to do and

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then we never make a mistake again.

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But we can be transformed as we

forgive ourselves, as we forgive

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others, as we seek to be honest and

upright and move forward in faith.

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So with the inmates, they've burned a

lot of bridges and they've hurt people

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and they know that they have hurt people.

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And so coming to radical acceptance

of the things that they've done

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and figuring out how to move

forward is, it's a powerful thing.

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And getting to be in conversations with

them as they deconstruct their life and

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what has happened that has brought them

to this place, it feels like such a holy

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space to be there with them as they're

trying to rebuild and recognize that

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they can be forgiven and that they can

have hope and that their worth is intact.

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I've shared this quote with them that

I love so much from Tamara Runia, and

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I just wanted to share it with you.

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This is from her talk in April

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worth isn't tied to obedience.

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Your worth is constant.

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It never changes.

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It was given to you by God, and

there's nothing you or anyone

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else can do to change it.

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Obedience brings blessings.

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That is true, but worth isn't one of them.

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Your worth is always great in

the sight of God, no matter where

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your decisions have taken you."

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And so as they learn to be different

because they want to be, and they

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wanna do that because that's the kind

of man they wanna be going forward,

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and it's not because they need other

people to know they've changed.

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It's not to prove it to anybody.

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As they do it because they wanna be

different, they change they can be

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making progress even while they're there.

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That it's not something that God

won't allow them to repent and

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move forward for a long, long time.

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The law requires that they pay

their dues to society, and that's

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an important thing for them to do.

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But when they have a change of heart

and when they are ready to move

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forward and change and be a better

version of themselves, that God

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is there and ready to help them.

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This isn't actually a religious

class that I teach, but I've been

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amazed at how much they wanna talk

about God and how much God has helped

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them in their journey to change.

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And so I guess that's my message for

you today, is that even if you're not

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in prison, we all need to learn that

we are good We all need to learn that

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we are not a sum of our worst mistakes,

and that extending grace to others

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can help us move towards healing.

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That we always have the power to choose,

and that any change we make is about

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us and our relationship with God.

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It's not proving to other

people that we are of worth.

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So I hope some of these things are

helpful to you as you work on your

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own growth and your own understanding

of your relationship with God and

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the divinity that is within you.

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All right, I hope you have a good week.