JJ Wilcox, a former NFL safety, shares his journey from a small-town kid in Cairo, Georgia, to playing for the Dallas Cowboys and beyond. He discusses the challenges athletes face, including the pressures of performance and the impact of social media on their lives. Wilcox delves into the complexities of player dynamics, particularly during the Colin Kaepernick protests, highlighting the struggle to balance personal beliefs with professional obligations. He also reflects on the emotional toll of being traded and the realities of navigating the NFL landscape. As he emphasizes the importance of faith and resilience, Wilcox encourages young athletes to stay true to themselves and focus on building a foundation for their future, both on and off the field.

Chapters:

• 00:00 - The Kaepernick Situation
• 05:21 - The Journey from Underdog to Opportunity
• 08:01 - Transitioning to College Life
• 11:31 - The Temptations of College Life
• 17:31 - Transitioning from Player to Advocate: The NFL's Role in Player Health
• 24:07 - The Call That Changed Everything
• 29:02 - Misunderstood Players and Team Dynamics
• 34:33 - The Rivalry and Its Impact on the Game
• 37:52 - The Legacy of Tony Romo
• 39:58 - Transitioning to Life After the Cowboys
• 46:48 - Navigating the NFL's Social Justice Landscape
• 54:07 - The Dark Side of Sports Betting
• 57:22 - Chasing the Bag vs. Spiritual Fulfillment
• 01:06:07 - The Rise of Podcasting: A New Chapter in Football Insights
• 01:10:56 - The Dynamics of Player Movement in Football
• 01:18:17 - Transitioning to Coaching and Community Involvement
• 01:21:50 - Building Blocks of Success

The Kaepernick situation, man, I was with him.

A lot of people wanted to be with him as well.

But we understand that our money at that time would have kind of scratched as far as Kaepernick maybe could have.

A lot of US was no $100 million player signed at that time.

And this is our way of life.

And at that time, the owners was kind of like, okay, if you just be on the bottom of the, you know, roster and stuff like that, you better come very correct.

Because at that time, you might be cutting right.

Real life.

It ain't real life.

Real life street stars know what time it is.

Real life street stars, man, we in here with, I deem, as a legend.

Cause he was a cowboy.

My boy JJ Wilcox in the building, man.

What's good, man?

What's good?

Feel good to be back in D town, man.

Oh, you say back when you was gone?

Yeah, man.

You know, I stay in Atlanta.

Okay, okay, okay.

I'm up in Atlanta, man.

Georgia, boy.

Georgia, boy.

Up and down, bro.

But Texas, though, man, Texas, they got a soft spot in my heart, man.

I love Dallas, man.

It's always love, man.

I definitely feel like when it comes to football, Georgia, Texas and California be like the three states that stand out.

Oh, yeah, And Florida in Florida.

Yeah.

Oh, my bad.

Can't forget Florida.

Can't forget Florida.

Can't forget Florida.

But, yeah, Georgia and Texas, man, they got some great football, man.

Real great football, bro.

Man, so, you know, it's you.

I think you might have been the.

No, you the second cowboy that been on the couch.

But we don't get a lot of sports people.

And we've been trying to tap in with the sports world, man.

Yeah.

And, you know, like I said, it's an honor to have you on the couch, man.

We appreciate your time, but for those who don't know J.J.

wilcox story, man, just give us a brief history.

Brief history before we get into it.

Yeah, man.

If you don't know much about JJ man, small town kid, man, from Cairo, Georgia.

Cairo, population is about 10,000.

I grew up with both my mom and my dad.

My mom and dad was both hard workers.

My mom worked two to three jobs.

My dad did what he could, you know, far as, you know, driving semi trucks and doing different things.

That grew up my little sister.

And, man, we was very tight.

It was just us four, a small house, man, middle to low class income people trying to survive in a small area, rural area, man, so.

And I love football.

I got pictures of me, man, when I was One to two years old, my dad played and so way of life and the way that I kind of envisioned myself, man, I just love to play football and something to take me away from all the chaos that was around me, man.

And my mom and dad did a great job of sheltering me, giving me everything that I needed, plus more to help me get to where I'm at now, man.

But just a small town kid, made a little football, little family love, you know, I'm saying, doing outdoors things and everything like that, man, I just wanted to have a better life than what I was kind of where I was raised up in the environment that I was from, man.

So that's a small nutshell that's kind of, you know, jj, kind of in the spit in a sense of a little bit of background now, you know.

Like in Texas, man, you know, as a dad.

Right, because we, I'm sure we're all parents here and you go to the games and you always see that one kid that just stick way out.

You're like, he just way colder than everybody.

Was that you growing up or did you have to kind of grow into that?

No, man, I was kind of the kid that was always kind of overlooked.

I was kind of the one that was always, like I said, immature until my junior senior year in high school, man.

So I didn't even start to my senior year in high school.

So my story and paths.

I can relate to a lot of people that's been overlooked or just late bloomers.

I was a late bloomer, man.

So I was the one that was just trying to figure out a way to get on the field.

If it was just standing out the practice, catching some extra footballs or balling out on scout teams so I could get a look and get some extra reps in the game time.

But now I was the one.

I had a lot of other great players around me, man, that was really talented.

Who were some of the people you played with?

I played with, man.

Back in my era in high school, I had a running back named Reginald Bryant, man.

Real, real, real, real good running back, man.

Like I told him all the time when I got to the league, he was the one that I could see easily doing it.

Angelo Pease, one of our top quarterbacks and in the high school division in that year, man, was top notch as well too.

So we had some cats down there, man.

Some real cats down there in South Georgia.

Some real good football down there now.

You know, growing up in the hood or just growing up general, there's always that one kid that you see that you like, you know, he going to the league, but something happens.

He either goes left with drugs or he goes left doing some gangster shit, goes to jail.

Do you have anybody that you was like, oh, man, I just know he finna make it.

But then something detoured his life.

Yeah, man, I know a couple of cats like that, and there's no offense to that.

Like I said in the way that we grew up, man, it ain't too many of us really making out of there, man.

You know what I'm saying?

So at that point, stuff changes, you never know.

Livelihood, what they needed to do to make some income from what they had in their circumstance.

So I know a couple cats like that, man, that was really just talented, but, you know, they were just so talented that the work ethic, once you get to certain levels, man, you got to take that work ethic and take it to a different level.

You know, talent only get you so far, but you got to have that heart, that discipline and sacrifice to get you to those elite levels where you have to get, man.

And I think that's some of the tantrums and the characteristics that get overlooked.

You get.

What I'm saying is, you know, you can be talented all day, but the talent, you know, people gonna catch up with your talent wise, and then it's gonna come down to harden and how bad you want it, right?

So coming out of high school, you were planning to be a walk on, and then you got offer from Georgia.

Yep, Georgia Southern.

That's crazy, man.

So.

So that had to feel real good, right?

Like, you just like, bullshit, I'm gonna just be a walk on and actually get an acceptance.

Take me through that emotional journey.

Like you said, you was the underdog, and then now you're starting to see your success to somebody actually saying, no, we want you on our program.

How does that feel?

It felt great, actually.

I went to a wide receiver camp going into my senior year, and at this wide receiver camp, coach Ron Dugan is the guy, man, that I love and have a lot of respect for.

He's the wide receiver coach at Florida State right now.

He was kind of the main guys at that wide receiver camp.

And he, man, I went there and I came in first place in the wide receiver camp.

And he said, I'm following you, man.

You know, I know you only have a lot of fam.

I know you not even a starter yet, but I like what you did.

I like the way you came in here to compete.

I like the heart you Came in with some of the talent boys you have as an athlete.

We like it and I'm going to follow you.

And man, I stuck on that and ran with it, man.

You know, I had a great season that year.

Had a couple of touchdowns in the state championship game.

I was playing both ways.

I was versatile, you know, I wasn't somebody that was limited and coming as a liability.

And man, I.

I just grinded, man.

I just put my head down that year and grinded.

Had a couple of offers from Western Kentucky, Valves State, some other schools.

And then I had two recruit visits to go to Sanford University, which is in Birmingham.

And then I had Georgia Southern too, and I went to Sanford first, and they was the first one to offer me, you know, come in as a recruit and come in and do a visit.

And I went there and it was a blast, man.

But, you know, Sanford was good.

It was four hours away.

Going to Birmingham from my small town, I never.

I didn't know anybody there, so I said, let me go to Georgia Southern, man.

And I went to Georgia Southern, man.

And my parents and the brothers that I met there, from Darius Eubanks to Josh Rowe and those guys, man, we came in as a recruit and we said, we gonna take this university and make it nationally known, man.

And we put our heart and love into it.

And that's when I kind of committed to Georgia Southern.

But at that time, it was a package deal.

Cause they wanted my quarterback at that time, Angelo Peace.

They wanted to de.

Tackle an outside linebacker.

But these guys, they wanted to go to Kansas State and all these big teams.

So I was like, I'll come.

Even if they don't want to come, I'm still going to come up and from there, man.

It was the best move I ever did, to be honest with you.

So that's kind of how I got there.

Didn't really have a lot of looks.

Like I said, when I committed to Sanford, I was just ready to get out of Cairo, so wherever I can go.

And then Georgia Sultan was like, hold on, we might make some work for you.

You know what I'm saying?

Just come up here and work out for us.

Make sure that we least give you a good opportunity.

And at that point in time, as a senior, one year senior guy, I just need the opportunity.

And that's a message for a lot of people.

A lot of youth today, man, is just capitalize on opportunity.

If you get one shot, maybe take it, man, and run with it.

So how was your first game in college?

First game in college Man, I ain't gonna lie.

I was nervous.

Excuse my language.

I was nervous, man.

I was nervous as hell, man.

Especially with the stage like that.

Some of my people coming up to see me play on a big stage.

It was cool, man.

Like I say, it was fun.

I had a lot of good fun at Georgia Southern, man.

The crowd is crazy, electric.

And to get a chance to play some of the boards that I had just literally signed with and get a chance to go out there and play, man, it was great.

It was live.

It was kind of everything that I anticipated.

The first couple snaps, I was nervous, you know, to go against the D1 talent.

In a sense, I was like, man, small time for K Row.

I only had a couple of weeks in training.

Then you had training camp, and then it was the first game.

And the first game we had was a big game, big Division 1 game.

So it was cool, man.

It was fun.

It was everything that I dreamed of.

Like, I said, bigger.

Jill in the rush, for sure.

So.

Now I gotta ask you this, right?

When in college, Right.

One thing that we see in college is that their locker room.

Yeah.

When they turning up with their music at the time, who was the.

Who was the artist that used to just get y'all hype, man, to go out there and go crazy?

It was a lot of good, man.

You had Wayne with the dedications.

Yeah.

You had Waka Flocka coming out.

Yeah, yeah.

Waka Flocka.

And I grew up on Pastor Troy.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Pastor Troy down South Georgia, boy.

So all that good stuff.

So Pastor Troy for sure was one of mine's.

Jeezy.

Yeah.

I mean, we can go on.

Future was coming out.

He was in that young Future stage.

Mixtapes and Molly World and all that good stuff.

So I definitely say, like, you know, like Lil Jon and crunk music with Lil Wayne with dedication, A Waka Flock or Chief Keef.

That area definitely got us in the mood.

We needed to, man, to go out here and take care of business.

Now I got a detour.

When you heard Pastor Troy go in on no Limit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

What was your thoughts, bro?

Cause that was just a wild beef.

Yeah.

I mean, he stood up, man.

He stood up for the south, man.

He was like, hey, we get it.

Well, y'all ain't the only ones out here making good music and making stuff like that.

But he had to let it be known.

Him down South Georgia boys came to represent, bro.

So I loved it, man.

It was good.

It Was it was the.

I think it was the push and stuff we needed.

Cause Pastor Troy, man, he's a legend.

Back my way, man.

I listen to his music all the time.

So, yeah, he was one of the goats when he did that, I felt like, hey, man, okay, we push it back, man.

You know what I'm saying?

We ain't just finna let y'all just come in here and just, you know, take all the publicity.

We make some noise down here too.

So I feel like it was great.

Now, man, with the surgeons of the Nil, right?

I want you to take it back to like when you was in college and imagine that everybody on the team had an Nil deal.

Do you think that team would have worked?

And what is your thoughts on Nil?

So it's a two part question.

I'm for it.

I hate it.

I hate it.

Waited till after I left to finally get a chance to get in there.

I feel like, man, you know, I could have somebody, like I say from my area of time could have really used to put that.

But I know God don't make no mistakes, man, and all that good stuff.

So I knew it was the timing for it.

I'm for it, but I don't want it to take away from football.

And I feel like sometime it does.

I feel like people get a chance to kind of quit.

People say, transfer this.

And I feel like it's quitting, man, because at the end of the day, if I start something, I'm the type of person I like to finish.

I'm old school, you know what I'm saying?

So the Nil deal, I think is great to take care of people, take care of your people.

I think it need to come with some things, literacy and different stuff like that.

Because, I mean, when you get money, it's a lot of stuff that come throw it at you.

And I can only imagine having a pocket full of money, 18, 19 years old, walking around a college campus.

Hey, let's talk.

Wait, so let's talk about some of the temptations.

Yeah, walk me through.

Like, as a person that's 18 on a football team in college, like, realistically, what are the expectations?

I mean, not expectations.

What are some of the temptations that come along with that?

It's a lot, man.

I mean, you gotta think, we ain't got no curfew, your mom and dad ain't there with you to take a look after you.

I mean, you ain't got nobody really checking on you.

I get to come in any time of the night.

I want to.

I get to hang out long as I want to.

I get to do kind of, in a sense, kind of everything you ever dreamed of once you go off to being an adult, you know what I'm saying?

So it's a lot of temptation, man, and it's tough.

It's tough because you can get lost.

I know a lot of players that came there and didn't finish and left the first year, the first semester and different stuff like that.

So it's a lot of stuff to get lost in, man.

There's a lot of temptations, but it's kind of like life in general.

You get to make those decisions and make those choices and turns and you're gonna make some mistakes along the way, man.

But having your good circle and a good, like I say, with the right mindset to go in there, hey man, I know why I'm here.

And my mom and dad used to tell me all the time, know why you're there, son, you know what I'm saying?

You're here to better your life, to get education and play the dream sport that you always wanted to do.

So don't lose sight of that.

And I think once you put that in the forefront, it makes things a lot easier.

So you're a two way player in college.

Do you think that made you more smarter on the field?

Did it give you more awareness of what the wide receiver was going to do against you, what a DB would do against you?

I think it gave me some advantages.

It gave me some advantages because I get to see things from a two way perspective.

I get to say things from an offensive perspective when I play receiver and running back.

And then when I went to defense, I had a chance to know what offense was trying to do to defenses.

And that kind of gave me an advantage with my defense and stuff because I kind of knew how offense wanted to tack, right?

So it worked perfectly.

And also my ball skills from offense helped me as a DB.

They say DBs don't have a lot of ball skills or athletic.

I beg different, you know what I'm saying?

Cause you take a good receiver and just train him up smallly at the safety position and he can go get the ball like you Ed Reeds and different things like that and attack the ball and understand leverages and angles and where the offense is trying to attack.

So I think it played a huge dividend and not also me getting, you know, drafted, but also just understanding football IQ as well too, man.

So we have a.

There's a guy named Travis Hunter on Colorado.

Yeah.

Who is like, who is that cat man, man, he's like one of the most remarkable players I've seen in a long time.

Because you see Beast on offense and D like he's almost equally as talented.

So I got a two part question for you, right?

Because you went in and you was multifaceted, but you went in as a safety, what advice would you give him?

Like if you were in Travis Hunter's position, what would you tell him?

Should he focus on one position?

Should he do both?

And does wide receiver or safety pay more?

Or cornerback, I guess is his position.

I got you.

I definitely say maximize each opportunity.

Gotcha.

Don't limit yourself at all because the more versatile, personally, the more you can do in the league, the better.

It's hard to get rid of somebody that can do two to three jobs instead of someone that can do one.

Right, right.

And we gotta understand that perspective.

So maximize that as well.

But I also want you to take accountability that, hey, you only got one body, one life, you know what I'm saying?

So also, whatever energies you putting it to be the great athlete you is, make sure you putting that into recovery and everything else as well too.

And your life around you mentally and physically to be in the right state, to perform at that high level.

Because now they see it here, now we want you to do it in the same thing in the NFL, but it comes with different pressures and different measures and money and everything as well too.

So I definitely tell him, man, just keep maximizing it.

He's doing a great thing.

I think he's kicking in a lot of doors.

There's a lot of players that could have done it.

Not to his magnitude, but enough to, you know, to get drafted and do some different things.

And whatever one he had fall in love with the most, that's the one you go pursue.

I mean, receivers, they pay good money.

Cornerbacks is diamond dozens hard to find good corners nowadays.

And a corner, I mean, they pay you good money to come and be a franchise cornerback as well too.

And safety.

So I mean, he's in a great position to be either key spot because like I said, you gotta have a good one or two receiver, you gotta have a good corner, a good corner or two and as well as safety too, man.

So I think the safety game is trying to make us make a way back.

You know what I'm saying?

I think it's an overlooked position too.

Yeah, for sure.

I feel like when I was growing up we had such as yourself, Troy Polamalu, it was like so many great safety play, but it also.

They let you hit a little bit.

Now, I don't see.

Like, I remember, I seen.

Was it James Harrison, somebody hit that and his whole body was still like.

I was like, God damn.

They used to have segments on espn, Hit of the week or whatever.

Yeah, Boom.

Them and all that stuff, man, espn.

But now it feels like they've kind of.

They're trying to wipe that away.

Like, they don't want y'all to hit so hard.

I understand it because of the whole head injuries, but for you being a defensive player, how did you look at it?

It was tough, man.

I knew if I was playing nowadays, I'd probably be broke and fine and all that kind of good shit, man, because I took pride in hitting, man.

They come and land the broom.

I mean, that's part of football.

Landing big licks and getting the momentum going and getting the spark you need in the game.

You know what I'm saying?

That one hit can change the whole momentum of a game.

You know what I'm saying?

And nowadays I understand it because.

Let's talk about the health of NFL players, man.

It's tough.

It's tough, man.

You know what I'm saying?

You go out there and you sacrifice your body for hours and years at a time.

And, you know, some of them players don't make it out the same, you know what I'm saying?

They start them ones you see snapping on the news, and people just can't understand them because they've been in this environment, this gladiating environment for over 20 some years.

And now you take me out and it's like, okay, now I gotta adjust.

So I would say, man, I understand the perspective of the cte, and that stuff is real, you know what I'm saying?

Protecting us.

Cause we gotta make sure we got a long life outside of football, too.

So I understand that part of it.

But it's a physical game, dog.

You know what I'm saying?

So, I mean, it's kind of hand in hand if you want us to play ball.

If you don't, you know, if not, we'll go to lead.

I mean, NFL flag or something.

So, I mean, I understand the safety part of it, but it's only.

It's a violent game, man.

So it's a thin line between it.

So after you retired, right, was there any precautions that the NFL has taken to help you with your recovery?

Yeah.

For your mental health or anything?

Now, you know what?

The NFL has done a really good job.

They have Done a really good job.

I heard a lot of horror stories from a lot of old heads when I was playing of how the NFL and the NFL pa, you know, certain things get misconstrued and like how certain things move.

But I think at the times what I've reached out, I was heard and I think football players in a sense that's retired or anybody just want to be heard for a sense because when the light stops shining, who knows what may happen or what may happen around you, but you just still want to be heard and felt.

And I think the NFL have done a better job of hearing the stories, seeing certain things going on that they're trying to do a better job of interacting.

They do offer different things as far as, you know, mental health community events where we get all the local alumni and players that was in your shoes, older and good job of trying to bring that locker room feel back to the real world to keep us all tight knitted and close.

So the NFL has done a really good job and better job of that.

There's still some work to be done but I think the direction is heading is going to be is for the better man.

So you know it's crazy, right?

Because again, I'm a Dallas Cowboys fanatic, bro.

I watched every single game.

So we watched you get drafted number three.

So before that, before we touch on that, when you were in college, did you feel like you were making waves to make it to the NFL?

Did you know at some point, oh I'm good enough to play in the NFL.

I started hitting the buzz, I'll probably say around about game five or six in my senior year, but.

So you felt like it took you all the way to your senior year?

Yeah, it took me all the way to my senior year.

My junior year I had a lot of buzz because I mean I was one of the top offensive players in the offense and that Division 1 double A at that time at Georgia Southern.

And at that time I was playing running back.

It was the option.

But I knew I maybe can get an undrafted free agent, maybe, you know, a couple shots here, maybe I can get a work out of here or go try out for a team.

So you never thought I was a slide receiver?

No, I never thought.

I never thought draw drafted.

And I'll tell you a little bit of story.

My coach came to me my senior year.

I was like, man, you wait all my senior year to tell me to switch positions when I got all of my film on offense.

So I ain't gonna lie, I never forget, man, My dad.

I called my dad, I said, hey, Dad.

I say, man, coach want me to switch to safety?

I'm like, man, I ain't, man.

He waited my senior year to try to pull a stunt like that.

But my dad was like, hey, man, I'm gonna tell you something.

That might be the best move for you.

Whatever you do, if you can't do it.

Cause he said he gave me an option to coach.

Like, hey, we don't like how you look by camp, we'll move you back to offense.

We know you can play offense.

My dad was like, man, do it.

Because if you don't do it, they gonna lab you.

Not a team player, and you selfish and everything else.

So you go in there with your head high, you work your tail off, and it may be the best move for you.

And I mean, God forbid it was.

So my dad really helped me in that situation.

Cause at that point, I was like, man, switching, man.

Keep me on offense.

And who knows?

I would have never been the JJ that would draft the third round to the Dallas Cowboys, the highest draft pick ever out of Georgia Southern University.

From being unselfish, how much do you.

Think that goes on where a coach is really trying to have the kid's best interest at heart, and the kid is just stubborn to it.

It's all about how you approach it.

And like I said, because for me at that time, I didn't like how it was going, but I knew that if I had a shot, it was going to be on offense because that's where all my fem was.

But he knew deep down inside for us to get to win the championships that we needed, we needed to stop people because we can score points, because we had Jerry McKinnon, who was a draftee, who played for Kansas City and got two super bowl rings.

We had some other pieces to put up points, but we couldn't stop nobody.

And so I took it as a challenge.

I took life in general.

I take things as a challenge.

I like a challenge and run with it.

Must have did good.

I didn't do too bad with it, man, but I took it as a challenge, man, and I ran with it.

And it was one of the best moves I did, man.

So.

And that's how I did.

And piggyback a little bit on what you're saying as far as scouting and getting noticed, right?

We had a big deep tackle that was getting a lot of NFL buzz, and he was bringing a lot of scouts in the building.

Oh, I said, okay, so you bringing them on in now?

It's time for me to go out here and you give me the platform, and that's all I need, opportunity.

He was bringing them in.

So when I was trying to get my 12 to 10 tigers a game and get my picks and different things like that, he got them in the stands.

So they seen.

They came to see him, but they gonna leave out knowing who number 19 was.

And that's how I approached it, man.

Just real quick.

There was a Netflix series.

It was about a guy that had a fake.

A fake team that ended up putting on esl.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Was playing against IMG and all that stuff, man.

Yeah, I seen that.

I seen that.

That was one of the wildest documentaries, bro.

How did he even get that far?

How did he even get that far, dawg?

Like, parents and everything.

To me, that was.

That might have been.

He might be up there on the scammer list, bro.

But I don't know.

But anyway, so you make it to the Cowboys, man.

So I'm talking about.

Everybody knows when you make it to the Cowboys.

It's the buzz is there, the city's there.

Like, talk me through getting that call.

Like, did you know you was going no.

3?

Yeah.

So the whole story behind the draft thing and Jerry calling me, man, is I had a vision that my agent.

Me and my agent was talking.

You know, he was saying I was day two guy.

So I knew I was going.

He was saying, early day two.

So early day two is like the second round, right?

Early second round, early third.

And so time was going.

I didn't get a call in the second round.

Seen some safety that I was actually better than getting picked before me.

I'm like, man, I'm calling my angels like, what's up, man?

Angela was like, man, just a waiting game.

I'm thinking you're gonna go here just, you know, pick 30.

I mean, third round pick, like 45 or something.

Bob, blow past me again.

And my mom at the time, I'll never forget.

I had people at.

Down at Cairo.

I had the whole neighborhood.

The whole Cairo.

The whole city was in my neighborhood, man, Just soaking around the block.

I had the TV out there, the news people.

So now at this point, I'm like, okay, now I'm looking like a fool.

I got all these people here and everything here, and nobody called me yet.

And I started crying, bro.

I walked away from everything.

I had Georgia Southern in the front all.

I mean, in the front.

And I walked away from.

I walked to the back room.

I just started crying.

My mom Was like, at that time, she was ill and battling some different things.

At that time, she say, son, what you back here crying for?

She was like, man, it's a blessing that you even hear.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, regardless, look at everybody showing you support and love.

Look how far you came being from a senior to here.

Like, why is you back here crying?

I was like, man, I'm supposed to be going.

I know I'm better than this safety.

I know I'm better than this DB and I'm still here sitting.

And, man, literally, literally 10 minutes later, man, I was sitting there, and at that time, my phone rung, and Jerry Jones called me, man.

And that call changed my life, man.

I ran to my mom, literally 10 minutes after we.

I'm back there crying tears of anger.

I'm in her arms, crying the tears of joy, man, from Jerry Jones calling me.

Because Jerry don't call a lot of people, man.

And he called me and my.

My family and everything, man.

It was just.

It was.

It was one of the best feelings of my life, man.

It was.

It was everything.

Nah, as a Cowboys fan, man, man, bro, I could have sworn y'all was gonna win, bro.

Y'all had to what, Man, Y'all had DEZ Bryant, y'all had Tony Romo.

Y'all had the best offensive line.

Y'all had you, demarco Murray.

Oh, oh, my, bro.

You had Barry Church, Mo Clay boy.

Y'all had the pieces, man.

And so one of the questions that I have, right, as a Cowboys super fan, I always hear Jerry, Jerry.

They always blame Jerry for everything, right?

How much of that would you say is valid criticism?

I mean, it's easy to pick the big fish out and always point a finger at him.

And I get it.

You know what I'm saying?

And with those teams we had, man, I'm be honest with you, though.

Yes, bro.

And then they came back years later saying it was a catch.

And people don't understand how mentally that messed with our team, because that team ain't gonna never be the same, right?

People gonna leave to go to free agency.

People gonna get cut, you know, coaches changes.

So we knew that was our one shot to really give us a chance that we had.

And to get robbed from a call, man, that was vivid.

And a playoffs like that, man, it bothers.

I seen, you know, my brother dez, man, he battled that for a while because he's a guy that was very pat about the game.

Somebody that I Looked up to was a lot coming to my four years through Dallas and to see him like to be distraught, like, you know, man, like what I couldn't give it no better effort than I did.

And you know what I'm saying, they're calling out the catch.

So that catch, it bothered with that locker room for a long time, man.

So stuff like that does definitely linger on.

Yeah, it does.

It does.

And Jerry did a good job because he did the Zack Martin draft pick.

We was like, who is Zack Martin?

Why'd you pick old lineman in the first round?

We was like, but no offense to him.

We just didn't know who he was.

And at that time, we thought we needed this piece and this piece.

But Jerry take a lot of criticism for things that the people that.

Things that he don't see, because he did that he did to Frederick.

When I was Travis Frederick, when I got drafted, he was the first round draft pick, one of the top online man.

At that time, it was back to.

It was catching.

Yeah, that's what I was saying.

And he was just building that piece.

And when we had the number one rushing offense that year and rushing game and offense that year, that's what we had.

Murray, right?

They was saying he was like the next Troy.

No, not Troy.

Emmett Smith.

Comparing him to Emme.

He was toting it, man.

He was going crazy.

Online was good.

We had a good.

They don't understand.

We had a good team in team chemistry too, man.

We jailed together, we hung out together, we did everything together, we climbed together.

If it was one, it was all right.

And, you know, we took those dinner, DB Dinners and different things.

Serious, man.

And that's what made us the team we was, you know what I'm saying?

And made us really good that year.

Yeah.

It's just, you know, like, I don't know if it's.

Maybe it's Jerry.

He could sell it.

But every year, we really, truly, as Cowboy fans, we really, truly feel, oh, this is our year.

Yeah.

And with that situation, I think was Jason Garrett.

Was Jason Garrett.

Yeah.

And it was one of those situations like, oh, we got an ex Cowboy, he's doing his thing.

And we were successful.

We were getting wins.

We was getting them wins, but we just never got over that hump, you know what I'm saying?

And I always used to wonder why it'd be like, we would play so great and then the playoffs would happen.

And to the credit, that was a great game, y'all versus Green Bay.

Hey, all you can ask for is your team to fight.

Hell, y'all did everything you could.

You know what I'm saying?

But for you, when you go in there and you're like, you're in Dallas, you get drafted by Dallas in your brain.

Did you buy into the hype, too?

Cause that's one of the things that they always say, is that the players buy into their own hype and they start walking like, oh, we just gonna win.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is that a true statement or no?

I mean, once you're in Dallas, you know you're in Dallas.

Cause every game is a Super bowl game.

Everybody trying to knock you off, everybody want to take you away.

Cause they know we the most talked about team, but deservedly so.

I mean, you know, we had the championships that we had.

We had to run with Irving, them.

And like I said, we didn't go deep into the playoff and different things.

And they come with respect.

You know, if you go, you know, be the talk of the town, we got to back it up.

Yeah.

And so.

But we knew that every game we go out there and fight, man, it was going to be a battle.

We knew that what we had to go up against and the hype is like, you got to.

If you're going to walk it, you got to talk and everything as well, too.

So you got to, hey, Jerry's putting us on the platform and giving us everything we need as a player.

Right.

Why not back it up and have a little confidence and swag, but still be humble enough to understand that you got to go out here and earn it every game.

So I think you still have to feel it a little bit.

Yeah.

Especially when you get the wins.

Right.

And you get to see in the media and different things like that.

And you're gelling, and it's a good feeling, man.

And you get to know the difference when it's like, okay, right?

Yeah, that's we them boys, man.

You know what I'm saying?

We earn it, we talk it, we backing it up, and we balling on Sunday.

So, yeah, that's us.

Do you feel like it was unfair how they painted Des Bryant?

They always tried to make him like he was demonstrative.

Yeah, not really, man.

I mean, I think some people, they get misunderstood.

They don't know how to be people, don't know how to talk to them.

And they feel like, you know.

You know how this guy all of a sudden, just snapping and doing, being the derogative to our locker room.

My experience with him, he was great.

He was a great teammate.

If we ever look if he needed anything, this guy, to put his arm around it.

I think he was just misunderstood.

A lot of people didn't understand the way he grew up.

He grew up tough, man.

He grew up and not really.

He grew up kind of the breadwinner from the time he, you know, stepped foot on that field.

And it come with a lot of pressure and a lot of stuff, and you don't know how you're going to react.

And he was just passionate.

I was passionate too, you know what I'm saying?

And we bumped heads and we did different things, but we knew at the end of the day we wanted to win.

And, you know, once that come, the nominators, goal is set.

Shoot, man, the sky's the limit.

But I just think he was a guy that was a big franchise player at the time.

Misunderstood.

A lot of people just didn't know how to understand to kind of communicate to him.

He had a lot of stuff pulling from him and still going out there and balling.

Being a first round draft pick, that's a lot of pressure.

Yeah, because you can be a bust, you know, a.

A franchise player or a bus.

Yeah.

And there's.

There's no enemy, there's no in between.

When you're a first round draft pick, man, that's a lot of pressure, man.

So I think you just was misunderstood.

Some things couldn't handle better.

But I think you get.

The more you get, the older you get, the mature you get, man, it just come with time.

So, you know, you play with a lot of great players.

Like when you.

When you're in practice and you competing, who was your toughest?

Yeah, competition I'm talking about, bro.

Those practices probably were more vicious than the games, man.

It was serious.

Whitten.

Whitten was a guy older guys slow.

But man, he gotta get open.

He know how to work leverages, he know how to work stems.

Getting about his breaks.

And him and Romo just know how to put it.

He's basketball.

You out, man.

Man, say I'm talking about.

I remember that one game where he got hit and his helmet came off.

Came off, and he just kept going.

Like that, snot bubbles and all, instead of running down the field, man.

And that's what.

That's who he was.

Every day he came to practice, he came.

He was talking noise, but we knew when it's time to go to game time, it was clutch.

He was going to make that catch and make those first downs that we needed.

But battling with him, man, was tough.

DEZ as well, throwing up the exit practice and all that stuff.

That guy kind of, you know, our defense is like, man, we got to step up.

So, man, we had some.

Our practices probably were more louder than the games, to be honest.

Just because we had a defense that wasn't going to back down.

And they had an offense that by all means had everything on the field from receivers to running backs.

So.

So we know the best players are your team, right?

Who do you think was the toughest player on someone on other teams?

Ah, you got your hit on Julio Jones.

Yeah, I got it here.

I got Julio.

Julio, man, Julio was.

Julio was a beast, dawg.

I say him.

Calvin Johnson.

I didn't know how strong Calvin Johnson was, man.

To be that big and like, I hit him and, you know, most of my hits, I can, you know, make them bounce off a little bit.

I was the opposite.

I bounced away from him, trying to thud him, man.

That was weird.

So, man, I had some good.

I mean, I had some really good talent, man.

From Calvin Johnson to Julio Jones back in his prime in the Falcons to AB I'm talking about 5, 10, 5 11, backside of 3 by 1, working.

You gotta double him and he backside 5'ten I'm talking about doing damage back there, man.

He was.

Ross was cold, fast, good awareness.

Who else, man, we had some good backs.

Devontae Freeman was nice.

He was a nice back, man.

That was tough to kind of battle week in and week out and man, it was just a lot.

I know I'm overlooking a lot of players, but it was some dogs, man.

You had Russell Wilson, Marshawn lynch, back when he was in Seattle with the Skittles and everything.

He was a dog too, man.

So even my running back down in Houston, 23.

I forgot his name, man, but he was.

I forgot his name.

Foster.

Aaron Foster.

Yes, he was a lot.

He don't get a lot of credit that he was doing.

He was really slippery, dog.

He was really good and slippery, man.

Yeah, he was smooth.

So I had some.

We had some good cats, man.

A lot of good cats, dog.

I played against and are the rivalries in the NFL.

How vicious do you think they got?

The rivals?

Yeah.

Like you and the Eagles.

Yeah.

It got tense.

It'll make you break you.

It can get you cut.

It can get you all kind of stuff, man.

Because those little games, you gotta win if you wanna get to where you wanna get.

When you wanna hold that trophy open These goals that we set in the beginning of the season, if you wanna get there, you gotta take care of these games.

And they hate you just as bad.

And they know they trying to get the same prize.

And with the intensity of that, we playing each other twice a year, it becomes a pride thing.

Like, okay, Mano gets anno.

You beat me the first time, but I'm gonna come beat you the second time and, you know, go back and forth.

So those rivals are intense, you know what I'm saying?

Like I said, they can get people, coaches fired, players fired as well, too, if you don't handle business with those rivals, man.

So, yeah, those rival game is pretty serious and intense.

I had a chance to do the one with Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

That's a tough one, too, man.

Ravens and all that good stuff.

AFC north is pretty.

Pretty vicious too, man.

Especially around these time of the year when it's cold and you gotta go out there and lay that hammer.

You supposed to be the hammer, and it's cold, it's like, boy, all right, let's go show what's up.

So, yeah, man, them robbers is pretty serious.

It can make or break you make or break a season.

And it can get coaches and players, you know, released and cut and stuff, man, if you don't take care and perform to the way you need to.

Right.

And, you know, again, as a Cowboys fan, we looking at this is the year.

Cause I think this was the year where it felt like we were super stacked.

Yeah.

And then we got a running back.

Yeah.

That year, Romo broke his collarbone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's when he was hurt.

Yeah, he was hurt.

And we was bad, man.

So 40.

We went like 4 and 12 that year, right?

So we knew we had Romo coming back, we had winning, and everybody's coming back.

So, like you say, we was coming back stacked, right?

Then he gets hurt.

And then preseason game in the preseason, then all of a sudden you have this.

This young man from Mississippi goes out and lights it up with the running back, right?

Yeah.

And then Romo is not hurt no more, but he doesn't play.

What the.

What was happening, bro?

Like, we, like, we were sitting back and.

And I was asking Jalen, right?

Because he's a sports guy, right?

And I always thought that the rule was you don't lose your spot to an injury.

Is that a thing or not?

To a certain degree.

It is.

It is.

It's the respect thing, you know, just kind of like, hey, I've been here.

I've done this.

It's mine until otherwise.

Right.

But at this time, you gotta think.

We was damn near 8 and 0 going into the season.

And it was like, do you want to break this up?

Did we go to Romo?

And then we started losing, and then it's like you snatch Romo out.

And Romo was just like.

He was a team player at that point.

He's like, man, roll with it.

Cause I'm out.

So he was.

So he wasn't hurt no more.

And he knew it.

Or.

I mean, we was rushing for him.

We didn't know how dad was gonna be.

So we know with the injury thing, we was trying to rush him to come on back, like, okay, if you can do it, do it.

But at that point, we was winning.

So he was like, I ain't gotta rush it.

I can let it fully heal.

I get myself ready for a late push or at the back end, which we was kind of gearing for at that time.

But it was hot dog.

I remember having a conversation the back of the plane with Whitten after some weight games.

I said, what you think?

Four, man.

This kid's coming in, man.

Rookie going crazy.

What you think?

He said, yeah, I say about.

I said, that was about game three.

He was like, give me about week five or six or seven.

He said then to come back and holler at me.

Went back there week seven, week seven.

And old, he's like, yeah, this guy, real deal, man.

This guy, real deal, man.

He's like, yeah, he doing it.

And he's taking command of the room and everything.

And I think at that time, we had a hot hand.

We just rolled with it.

So with him, it was like, hey, it ain't broke.

Don't fix it, right?

And he put up, man.

He came in and did what he had to do.

I got a lot of respect for him.

That was 133 season, right?

Yep, 13 3, man.

So it was one of the most craziest seasons I seen.

But what stood out to me, right, was that very last game, which was a throwaway game, when they put Romo back in there, and he looked like old Romo, I was like, God damn, he looked good.

So I was sitting here, like, as a fan.

Cause the thing for me, right, I acknowledge Troy Eggman.

Love Troy Eggman.

But for me, Romo was my favorite Cowboys quarterback.

Like, he just.

I don't know why, but he was wilding out.

He would fumble the ball, grabbing, juke somebody.

I seen the JJ White when he spent over him, and it was like, he do stuff like that, dog.

I seen him throw5.5 picks and win the game.

Yeah, just slinging for me.

I know that sounds nuts, right?

But for me, he was my.

I always wanted to see him win one, right?

Yeah, man.

And so I always wondered this.

Did that.

Cause any type of.

There had to be some kind of division in the locker room.

Like, damn, this is Romo, but damn, this young man is going crazy.

I mean, it can be, but we had good people.

That's why you go to who you bringing in the locker room.

That's what's up.

We had people that were selfless, and we had people that understanding what we was trying to get.

And regardless of how it looked, if Romo get in there and win the last three, regardless of what it did, we all won.

You know what I'm saying?

And I think it was a good.

It was a good sportsmanship on Romo of him.

And they said, lady, man, let me just heal.

I'm older.

Let this guy, man, if he can take us to what we need to get and I can do the back end is just as equal.

You know what I'm saying?

So it was a bunch of selfless guys, man.

Romo was.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Romo was magical, man.

He was cool.

He was magical.

He could do things that you never thought his body wasn't like.

He wasn't no chisel or no, you know, no cam.

New stature.

But when you go out there and it was time to make plays and sling it, he was one of the best at, you know, doing that.

So my hat off.

He was a great teammate, too.

I enjoyed Romo, man.

Yeah, man.

Like, it's crazy.

So I grew up watching him, man.

It was crazy, bro.

Me coming in that locker room, it was, man, I was blown, man.

I was starstruck for a while, right?

My first game was kind of against Peyton Manning and those guys when he was in Denver.

I was like, eli Manning.

I'm standing across from him.

I'm like, man, I grew up watching these cats on tv, you know what I'm saying?

On practicing in the living room like my little kids do now, trying to run the football to NFL Sunday Night Football and stuff, man.

And to actually be out there, it was cool.

Didn't we get.

We got jerked in that game too, though, right?

That Playoff game.

Which one?

The one that Dak played in.

Yeah, they came out to a last minute Simon bust on defense, man.

We had one of the young guys supposed to be blocking the sideline, didn't get enough depth.

And Jerry Cook tiptoed it on the sideline the last year.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And kicked the field goal to win it, man.

Cause we had them beat all game.

And like I say, we had the bye week, right?

Cause we was the number one seed.

That's right.

I hate that bye week.

Number one seed with a rookie.

Bro, that's crazy.

Yeah, it was crazy, bro.

That's crazy.

He had a good team, man.

Really good team.

So life after Cowboys, right?

When you get traded away and you start actually dealing with other organizations, what would you say?

Like pro and con, right?

What was some, one of, some of the things that you feel like the Cowboys could use maybe to make the organization run better, if any?

I mean, they might already be top tier.

Yeah, I mean we always can be criticized of ourselves and get better.

You know what I'm saying?

We can always look ourselves in the mirror and say, how can I get better?

I think for me, I was able to go to some top notch organizations.

Was I left, I did a small stint at Tampa Bay, but I went to Pittsburgh for a year with Mike Tumlin.

I mean that's another hierarchy, top tier team.

A guy that's arguably one of the hall of Fame best coaches.

And to see his coaching style from coach Gary.

Coaching style, it was an eye opener for me.

Cause tumbling, when you go up there, there's some dogs, you know what I'm saying?

We had dogs too, but I mean you got a dog as a coach and everything else.

And this whole pedigree of how he coaches and run his team is like how you practice is how you play.

And if you ain't practicing the way we need you to, you will not dress out.

And it was a wake up call, was like, oh shoot.

Okay, all right.

So hey, okay, all right.

Just because you wanted two on the depth chart, hey, this three and four, if he come in and have a good day, a good practice and we feel like we can win with him, we're gonna put him above and do what we gotta do to win.

So you get it.

So it's not.

You do get a shot.

If you play good over there, if you practice and do what you gotta do and you make your name and make your presence felt, you will get a shot to play up there in Pittsburgh.

Mike Tumbler just Want to find dogs to go out there and go, take care, go hunt.

That's what's up.

Regardless of who it might be, what you may look like or where you come from, what round you drafted.

That's what we looking for.

We come here to win.

That's it.

But I definitely think we can always take some pieces and make some other organizations great.

Dallas was great to me, man.

Probably one of the top tier franchises.

I had the opportunity to be around from top to bottom, you know what I'm saying?

And like I said, I had Pittsburgh, I had Indy.

Indy was cool.

It was the only world.

There's not much going on there, but I mean, it's focused on football.

That year we wanted to play Mahomes in the snow, in the playoffs.

And then I came home to Atlanta, you know, and in Georgia.

And that's a whole different world.

Cause I'm back home now, you know what I'm saying?

And the Falcons got its pedigree of greatness that it had.

I was there with Dan Quinn and it was cool, man.

So those franchises all have their pieces of what make them great and stand out.

That's what's up.

If you were to predict the super bowl, who's going to be at the Super Bowl?

Who do you feel like right now?

Right now, week 12?

Yeah, it's going to be hard, man.

But I think I'm going to go with either KC or Buffalo on the AFC side for sure.

I mean, Detroit right now is tearing it up, bro.

You see what happens when you get some former players that understand the walk of life and what it takes to run those locker rooms and get those players to buy in.

You see it.

And that's what it is.

Because his roster from coaching down, all of them had some type of peer degree in football, you know, Aaron Glenn and all those guys and just that premier reality.

But Detroit, I see Detroit, Minnesota's a good team.

I like Green Bay.

I had an opportunity to do some stuff with them this offseason.

They look sneaky team, bro.

Yeah, they look sneaky, sneaky team.

And they ready right now.

We've seen the quarterback destroy our team.

I've seen it in person.

So yeah, so I had the opportunity to do some stuff this offseason with them, man.

They got a.

The organization from top down is pretty, pretty dope, man.

I ain't gonna lie.

They did a really good job of taking me in and doing some small things.

And I had a chance to witness Matt LaFleur, man.

He's a hell of A coach, man.

He's a hell of a coach, man.

He loved the game and he's steady evolutionizing the game.

You know him.

And that Kyle Shanahan pedigree, those guys, they all over the NFL, from Sean McVeigh to Mac McDaniels down in Miami, everybody got that Kyle Shanahan, Mike Shanahan type pedigree.

And those guys are very, very, like, smart and like I say, very like chess players, man, when it comes to the offensive stuff, bro.

So was there a guy that you took under your wing?

You know what?

I tried to take a lot of guys because I wanted that same love.

I didn't want some of the players, younger players, to make the mistakes that I did.

I took some guys.

I had an opportunity with Derrick McLennan, he's down, he's a practice squad guy down in Miami.

I had opportunity, man.

He really bought into me.

It came to me and he find, and to be honest with you, those young guys bring life and purpose to us old guys.

Because like I say, it's easy for us to get pushed back when you can't run the ball and run a four, four no more.

You know, go up and get the picks.

But those young guys coming to you, asking you for questions brings life to you and make you feel like, hey, man, I'm still important and my voice is still heard.

You know what I'm saying?

So I had opportunity to do a lot of young guys, man.

Derrick McLean is one that I had opportunity to train with this off season and do some great things and speak life into him, and he did, vice versa.

Spoke some life into me, man, and, and everybody I try to train with because I try to stay around the game.

At least if I'm not in the gym, you know, bringing people on, they come ask me questions, I do it.

So, you know, I can't pinpoint, other than Derek, just because I had a very hands on opportunity with him this past off season as a guy that I, you know, that bought in, that came and really brought me life as well, too.

So hypothetical question here, right now, if there is a open position at a coach at any, any team, what team would you want to coach for right now?

NFL or just the team in general or college or whatever?

College, NFL.

Get both.

That's a good question, man.

Cause you asked me that a year ago.

I'd be like, man, I ain't doing no coaching.

I ain't doing none of that.

I don't want to do none of that stuff, man.

I'm just Gonna get me in a boat and retire and float off in the win.

But I feel like my purpose was bigger than just playing football, man, and being able to give life to some of those people that grew up kind of like me on those rural areas and need that voice to be like, hey, you can do it.

You know what I'm saying?

Speak life into them.

So if I had a team right now, I would always go back to my alumni, Georgia Southern.

I would love to do that.

I would love to help Dallas, the Cowboys, in a sense.

I have a coaching background.

Internship I've done.

I did a couple of years of scouting, pro scouting and college scouting, too.

So Dallas, for sure.

Green Bay, like I say, they the one that gave me my opportunity for coaching intern this past off season.

Congratulations.

Yeah, yeah, appreciate it, man.

So Green Bay and those teams, any college team that's, you know, D1, D2, whoever sees me fit and I sees fit for me, I'd be open to it.

Now, if you'd asked me a couple months ago or a year ago, no, man, I would have said no.

But I think my purpose is a lot bigger than, you know what I'm saying?

Just me playing football for eight years and speaking life to these kids, because I want somebody to do the same for my kids, you know what I'm saying?

And I see how far that can take you, because speaking life to that one person, you never know how he hold on to that and take him to be the next JJ or, you know, better.

So, right.

If the opportunity presents itself, the right one, right fit, I'd definitely take it.

Now, I want you to keep it a thousand.

I want you to keep it beam.

With me on this next question.

When Colin Kaepernick start kneeling, right?

And then I remember the Cowboys.

There was that famous Cowboys picture where y'all all came and Jerry, I don't know if he was on a team at the time.

Yeah, I was going.

I know exactly what you're talking about.

When they went to az, yeah, it.

Looked like, all right, Jerry, you kind of wilding onto this.

What was the sentiments in the locker room for a black athlete, right?

You're trying to stand with your man.

Who's Colin, right?

Who has a message, whether you agree with the message or not.

And then you have Jerry, which.

It sound like he tried to play both sides of the fence, but the world looked at y'all like sellouts, just to be quite honest, you know what I'm saying?

So how was that trying to.

You know, when people are saying derogatory things to you.

But it's like, nick, we just play.

We just here to play football, bro.

Yeah, we gonna keep it a bean.

I mean, at that time, we understood exactly what Kaepernick was doing.

I mean, a lot of people think it was just what he was kneeling just not to do to the star pledge allegiance and all that stuff.

It was deeper than that at that time.

We had one of the highest police brutality to a lot of black African Americans and everything at that time.

Right?

And it was just not coming to the point where it was being seen on social media and.

And getting caught on, you know, on all type of, like, media platforms.

Right.

And at that point in time, Kaepernick was a.

He was a franchise type of player in San Fran.

And his message, what he was trying to get across was very approved.

Cause at that time, I was in Pittsburgh, and we did the NILA thing, too, in Chicago that game, to show respect.

But y'all did it a little bit more.

Did it as a team.

Y'all did it as a team.

Y'all were the one team that maybe, because y'all have a black kid coach, and he can probably resonate that message.

Yeah.

So it was.

So it was a collective like, hey, we're gonna do it.

We all gonna do it.

Right?

You know what I'm saying?

And if you disagree with it.

But, hey, we're a team, so if you disagree with it, we gave us an opportunity to speak on it in locker rooms before we even did it.

You get what I'm saying?

So it wasn't just like, hey, of the game, of, we just gonna go out here and we gonna kneel.

We had a whole talk of them from week to week, because everybody got their different perspective.

Cause you got people that done serve.

And like I said.

But the Kaepernick situation, man, I was with him.

A lot of people wanted to be with him as well.

But we understand that our money at that time would have kind of scratched as far as Kaepernick may.

A lot of US was no $100 million player signed at that time, and this is our way of life.

And at that time, the owners was kind of like, okay, if you just be on the bottom of the, you know, roster and stuff like that, you better come very correct.

Because at that time, you might be cut, right?

And then now you're being labeled as a guy that don't want to come in and be a team player.

And, you know, he's doing his own thing, and he's kneeling and being disrespectful to the flag.

And it's like, no, man, y'all didn't even come to the locker room and ask us what's going on, why I decided to do this instead of just blasting me.

But, you know, it's the way of the world and the league in a sense.

You know what I'm saying?

When you got people that's above you and feel a certain type of way to get that communication from top to bottom.

So there's going to be a lot of people.

Well, there were a lot of people that said, well, why don't all the.

There is no NFL without the black players.

Why didn't all the black players just go on strike?

I mean, it's harder than that.

I mean, I agree with that.

I feel like we could have stood together.

We could, but, I mean, you gotta have everybody on board, right?

And everybody at that point was like, hey, man, this is how I feed my family.

Yeah.

Like, I can't step away from this.

I leave paycheck to paycheck.

And you understand that.

But it's the way you go about it.

And at that time, we really didn't have enough knowledge of it because we were just doing it just because we were trying to get our message heard right.

You know what I'm saying?

And we didn't know how to move as a militant, as a team and as a.

You know what I'm saying, as a race and everything else.

But at that time, we just didn't have the knowledge of how to approach it the right way.

And it was new to everybody from the NFL, Pa, to everybody that, hey, we got a voice, and we trying to be heard, too.

We just ain't finna take this slap on the hand and brush it underneath the rug.

And that's what it is.

Like, nah, we want to be heard and fail.

But I ain't gonna lie.

Like, I feel like y'all kind of got put in an unfair position because at one point, it's like it just seemed like it kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

It just wouldn't go away.

I thought it would be here today, gone tomorrow.

No, this shit was, like, week to week.

It was getting worse and worse and worse.

And they were really looking like, is he gonna kneel?

Is he.

Are you gonna stand up for the national.

They was even killing.

Because at the time, I actually worked at the Cowboys as a beer vendor.

I worked at every stadium as a beer vendor, right?

And they was looking at people not standing up, putting their hand on their chest.

Like, there was black people sitting down on the national anthem.

And I would see the white quote, unquote, people or people that were in the army be offended, and they would say something about it.

Like, it was like a real tense time.

So, like, it was just really interesting to see that it only seemed to focus on football.

They never golf, NFL, nascar.

None of the other sports had that responsibility.

But y'all.

Did y'all feel like, damn, this is kind of unfair, man?

Like, I mean.

I mean, yeah, at the same time, because it's like, okay, if somebody did a nascar, which they.

I think at the time, we had other sports that maybe was trying to find a way to kind of kind of do it.

They wasn't held to the same.

No.

And that's the scrutiny now.

That's how we knew that it wasn't fair.

And I mean, life just not fair at times, man.

And I definitely think we got hit a lot hard for that stuff, just because we're one of the most viewed and watched, you know, sport in the league and in the world, in a sense.

So they look at us like we supposed to be these poster child people, but to be honest with you, the people that play football, man, come from some tough areas, dawg.

Nah, for sure.

And you know what I'm saying.

And it ain't as cupcake.

And it's given easy as it is to everything else in sports and everything else.

So I definitely think we was hitting brutalized for something that was, like I say, which everybody has their own opinion how they want to go about it, but it's just kind of.

It come with the territory, man.

It come with the price of playing in the NFL or being an NFL athlete.

That it comes with certain levels that you have to, you know, stuff you have to hold up to.

Yes, man.

That's.

I really felt for y'all during that time period.

That was crazy.

Time period.

But equally as crazy was Aaron Hernandez was catching bodies often.

Yeah, I know, right?

And kept going out and catching touchdown pitches.

Like, when y'all heard that story break, what was y'all.

Cause y'all played against them, y'all played with them, and then you see a story like that break, do you go, man, how does this happen?

Yeah, I mean, I was shocked.

I mean, he don't look like the type of guy that a lot of people put this Persona on, but, I mean, when the stories and stuff were coming out, I was like, whoa, man.

So you just gotta be careful, dawg.

I mean, I don't really know much about him.

He was a little bit older than me.

I think he was 070ish.

And by the time I was getting in, he was leaving.

Grunk was emerging as a tight end for him, but the Patriots at the time, so I really didn't know him.

I really, you know, just heard stories from him from back in Florida and different things like that.

And a lot of people I talked to say he was like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

I think some people, you know, are like that, really like that, and about their life and some people that just walk it.

And that was the two.

You could tell the difference between a guy that was really like that and some guys that kind of play like, okay, I'm a tough guy, this, this, and that.

But you got people that's really like that, man.

You gotta be careful who you around and, you know, how you deal with them and stuff like that, too.

I always want to know about this.

Gambling is gambling, right?

Parlays.

That's the new thing.

You could gamble from your phone now, which wasn't a thing.

I bullshit you not, bro.

I was watching.

I was.

I bet because I was heavy on the prize, but I had to quit, bro.

And I'm watching the game.

I don't know who I bet on.

It might have been like, let's just say LeBron, and he just needed 27.

Points or some shit.

This nigga got 26 points and subbed out the game.

Ooh.

I was like, wait a minute, bro.

Yeah, come on, bro.

Do you think this is just.

Do you think that there is some type of fixing going on when it comes to sports betting in the games?

Because, like I'm saying, like, you're.

I'm watching, like, when you actually gamble on the game, shit be like, wait a second, bro.

How he ain't.

Yeah, he couldn't give me 10.

Yeah.

I feel like it's so big now and there's so much money into it now that it may be something.

I mean, I'm the same way with you.

I know a lot of people that play and do it, and they be one or two points away from it, and all of a sudden that person sell by that, you know, can go over and beyond.

But I think from the time that I left the game to now, that gambling stuff, then it didn't.

Went crazy.

Now you got Vegas, them involved.

You got stuff, man.

You can gamble from all different angles and different stuff like that.

So I think it grew into, like, its own little fucking pride, profit or owner organization, where it's like, hey, we got enough pool nowadays that, hey, whatever we say, we need to get a little feel and, hey, understand what's going on.

Like, we here too, and we got enough money in the pot now where we can stand toe to toe and be like, hey, sit down.

Sit him down.

In the fourth quarter, if he gets 25 points or something.

Yeah.

Or if not, you know what I'm saying?

Who knows what may happen?

Cause I'm not gonna lie, right?

I played this out of my brain.

I was like, man, let's just say me and my six homies all made it to the league.

That's a parlay right there.

Like, who's to say they don't just got their granny or something?

Hey, like, I'm not finna get this granny.

Just go ahead and like, how do you really regulate that?

For real?

What's that?

Like, let's say you and six of your friends, or let's just say 12 of your friends conspired to say, okay, we see the numbers, we gonna have somebody on the outside, we gonna let them know what it is and what it ain't.

How do you regulate that?

For real?

That's easy money right there.

Yeah.

You put 10 bands on this, that's an easy flip.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I couldn't say if I was 18 that I wouldn't do that.

Like, I mean, who's to say?

Cause at that time, you know.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

The money and stuff, man, play into us.

And it's like.

I mean, at that point, I mean, it's all the decisions you gotta make.

It's tough because at the same time, like you say, if your homies, somebody really need it, it's gonna be that one person that be like, man, I need this, bro.

My folks down here, we ain't got nothing.

We ain't got much going on.

We got this and that and, hey, man, I need it.

You know what I'm saying?

So I gotta do what I gotta do.

You might have the other nine, I might not do it, but they may just do it to show love.

Because the brotherhood that we have look out for them and don't leave them handing and do it and take it.

You know what I'm saying?

So I think it's just different scenarios that be painted that may profit for somebody else to do it other than somebody not to do it.

Do you think as I'm just gonna focus on black.

Cause I'm black.

Do you think as black people, we focus too much on chasing the bag and not enough on God?

Cause I feel like, yeah, how much money do you really need?

Like, you know, it's like you.

It's like, it just seems like people are just searching for this endless amount of money when it's like when we're all y'all are married, I'm about to get married.

And then, you know, I know people that just like that single lifestyle, flashy, da, da, da.

But, you know, when I see people that are married, like, you can see, like, they always think about people other than themselves.

Like, they're always thinking about the greater picture.

And they're not trying to do too much.

They're just really trying to feed their family.

But then on the flip side, you got people that just nonstop chasing the bag.

And it's like, there's no God in there or there's no higher power.

There's no purpose in there other than the bag.