Gaming is a universal language - Renz Chong , CEO & Co Founder Breeder DAO. Join us as we speak with Renz sharing his thoughts on how to enter the web3 space as a new project. Breeder DAO has worked with projects like the hugely successful Axie Infinity and is leading the game development industry by creating NFT's transferable assets and more. In this episode Renz talks about his journey from a gamer to the CEO of one of the most successful DAO's in GameFi.

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BreederDAO - Renz Chong

Participants:

• JP (CMO of AdLunam)

• Renz Chong (Co-Founder & CEO at BreederDAO)

00:22

JP

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Welcome to this episode of Diving into Crypto. This is JP from AdLunam, Inc. bringing you everything about web3. On the show today we have, as I've said before, the CEO of BreederDAO, Renz, who has a phenomenal track record and I'm really excited to get some of his insights from the magical stuff that they've been doing over at BreederDAO. Before we begin, however, I would like to remind everybody that views expressed on this program are meant for educational purposes mainly. They're not to be considered as financial advice. If we get cut off, keep in mind that you can come back to the AdLunam Inc.

01:06

JP

Twitter handle and you would be able to find a link that gets you back into the room or announcement that would indicate what has just happened. At the end of the show, we will open up the room for question and answers from the audience. In the meantime, if you do have them or you come across something that you'd like to ask, feel free to tweet that in and our team will pick it up. You can tweet it in to AdLunam Inc. Or to the speaker directly and we will have that question answered for you. I think that brings us to the end of these announcements. However, remember, ladies and gentlemen, that feedback is so important. It's important to the speaker, it's important to the show that you have found something of value. And every time you use that emoji, it reiterates that this speaker has contributed something phenomenal to your journey in this Web3 space.

02:00

JP

So feel free to use those. You have multiple options. Go ahead and try those out. Right. So that being said, welcome once again to this episode of Diving into Crypto. This show is hosted by AdLunam Inc. Which is the industry's first integrated, Engage to Earn seed crowdfunding and IDO Launchpad with a Proof of Attention allocation model. And that, ladies and gentlemen, brings us to let me introduce very briefly the speaker for today, our special guest Renz Chong, who is the co-founder and CEO at BreederDAO. Renz is a former consultant and brings multiple years of experience in the fields of growth strategy, data science, machine learning and all the good stuff that gives him the power to bring the magic into BreederDAO. I'm going to let him explain a little more about his background and what got him here. But he was also let's give him a round of applause for that.

02:59

JP

03:12

Renz

Thank you so much for that intro, JP. And I really love being on spaces just to chat with people and to listen to their thoughts as well as share my own. So, again, happy to be here.

03:26

JP

Thank you so much for accepting our invitation to be here. So Renz, let's get this show on the road. I have the question for you. Tell us a little about you and tell us what got you to the space that you're in.

03:38

Renz

Right, so I guess I'll start with what's usually not like in our descriptions. Right? So for myself, I'm actually a very avid gamer. I play games ever since I was maybe like in grade school. And the way I usually play is that I want to collect every single thing that can be collected. During the start it was mostly buying skins and then when Free to Play era started, it was about buying off all of these characters. Right. So I really spend a lot on gaming in general and I know the frustration of every single gamer where people who used to buy all of these skins eventually move on from the game without being able to bring on or do anything about their assets that are left off from the game. Right.

04:33

Renz

I know personally when I heard of Axie Infinity and the ability that blockchain provides so that you are able to bring forth your assets or buy and sell your assets. That was actually really magical for me. And I guess this becomes relevant because of how Activision is actually looking at porting over their asset from version one to version two. Right, we see now that people are actually realizing the benefits of NFTs and how Blockchain can actually help you not just in terms of like asset, but also in terms of being able to utilize your assets or really owning your assets. Right. So again, going back to myself and to BreederDAO, what really sparked the interest is the ownership aspect of all of these assets, gaming and the business and me. So you briefly touch on it where I started my career off consulting. From there I realized that there's actually a much bigger world than consulting.

05:43

Renz

Consulting is fun and all and you get tons of learning from different industries and from different countries. But I guess what it lacks for my firm specifically is the execution, right? So from there I decided to move to a startup which allowed me to wear different hats and to really deep dive or to really experience execution and doing their groundwork. So learned a lot of things as well from there. Dealing with. For context, my first project in the startup environment was actually called Ankas, which, to some of you who may not know, is actually similar to Uber. But instead of, like four wheeled vehicles, it actually uses two wheeled motorcycle vehicles, which is actually very relevant, especially in countries like the Philippines because of traffic and road situation. So from then I moved from one startup to another, eventually ended up in a crypto rabbit hole where, as I mentioned, Axie Infinity really made a mark.

06:55

Renz

07:21

JP

That’s good. Please go ahead.

07:23

Renz

No, I was just going to say that. So I guess what really created that appeal to me as a user is not really more in the trading side because that's more of like the profit side, which a lot of us enjoy, but it's not what makes us stick to the space, really. Right. So for me, as a founder, I became really passionate about gaming. I became really passionate about asset ownership, and I became really in love with the idea of having control of your digital assets similar to how you do with physical.

07:55

JP

Right, okay. So Renz's, picking up on that same thread of where you were going. Right. I'm curious to know, and I'm certain our audience is as well. Right. What was the most memorable game that stood out for you? One that you would spend your endless hours just immersed in? Which one was it for you or which ones were it for you?

08:14

Renz

I guess there were two. The first one would be like an FPS, which is CSGO, which I'm pretty sure a lot of you are very familiar with the idea of being able to play with your friends. And back then it was just mostly land. You go to computer shops to be able to play with your friends and come out on top is just really appealing. I don't think people have moved on from that idea of wanting to come out on top and playing with their friends.

08:41

Renz

Right. And I guess the second one would be really Mobile League of Legends, where I got first contact with the idea of wanting to dress up my skins so that even if I'm actually not the strongest in the team, at least I have the best skin. And if there's one thing I know about people from Crypto and the Degens out there, it's that they want to show off. Right. And I guess that's also true for me and that's also true for a lot of other gamers.

09:11

JP

Yeah, I mean, it's like the adage, right? If you have it, flaunt it, and why not, right?

09:17

Renz

At least if you die like really cool.

09:21

JP

Yeah, you do. You die in your best suit.

09:24

Renz

Right.

09:25

JP

Okay. So curious now, FPS of like completely relate, especially where people across Southeast Asia would be able to relate to the same situation that, you know, you have these places that they just land computers. People would get there, they would get on. You may have somebody who is on the same team in a different part of the world or just in the cubicle next to you and you'd almost never know, right? Yeah. Those were brilliant ways of getting people together. I remember a time when, of course I'm from the Mortal Combat era when that came out, that was the one that hooked me. Gaming, of course, is a huge movement. Right. And GameFi is also a huge movement. How did that evolution started for you? I'm certain there must have been that I actually want to start here. I want to start at the point which, when you were not able to take your skins across to various places or your assets across to other games, which one was the most frustrating for you?

10:38

Renz

It was actually fairly quite recent and because it's a game that I spent a lot on, I don't know if you guys are familiar with it, but it's a square Enix game on mobile which is free to play. It's called Final Fantasy war of divisions. And I guess for context, one of the best games for me is like War of the Lions Final Fantasy tactics. Which is why when I heard about Brave X use and it could be the sequel to that, immediately jumped the gun and play it. And for most of you who didn't know, it actually on boarded a lot of different titles or at least a lot of different characters from the different Final Fantasy titles, which I've also played, which is why it was impossible to not spend and to buy every single character that there was. And there was like, what?

11:28

Renz

Collaboration every single month. So you really spent a lot of money. And I guess it did help that it was the Pandemic during that time when they actually launched. So there was nothing to do except to play. And so in order to become the best in the game, you would need to buy all characters and all of the assets. So, yeah, for me, being able to spending a lot on that particular game and then eventually getting tired of the game because the story kind of took a while before it started shaping up, and then there were a lot of different priorities because the market kind of ease up. Then you can go out and continue your life as normal, and you don't have that much time to spend just going around and then, I guess just playing around because everything was shut off during the pandemic, or a lot of industries were shut off during the pandemic.

12:24

JP

Yeah, that was certainly something that drove the movement, especially when it came to the play to earn aspect of GameFi. Right. You had that much time on your hands. Well, in many ways it was a dream situation that you could spend endless hours playing.

12:40

Renz

I guess you can say that movement kind of became really huge in places like the Philippines as well as other developing countries because for most of us, and a lot of us kind of experience it, there was a huge loss. There were many people who lost their jobs. And suddenly you have this new game that can actually allow you to earn higher than minimum wage, which actually lets you, quote unquote, work for less than 8 hours or even just 2 hours of your day. Right. So a lot of people jumped the gun and decided to just play this game. One, it allowed them to actually earn even though they're quote unquote jobless. Right. And then two, it actually became like a more lucrative opportunity. We know some people who are actually able to buy cars, buy houses just because of this game. And I think it became like a huge opportunity for those who, again, has lost their jobs.

13:49

Renz

And two, we're living quite ordinary and basic jobs. Right. So, yeah, extra income is always welcome. And I guess if you're actually in the lower socioeconomic class, you would always want and even myself, right. Who I won't necessarily categorize as someone from that level, would also want extra income, especially if it's something that I want to play, something that I want to do know, something that's really fun, or at least, like, more fun than my current.

14:25

JP

Yeah, it's a total Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn situation. Right. If work can be fun, then it's not really work. I also recall coming out since you mentioned the Philippines. I always come back to this. One of the highlights when it came to Axie Infinity was this uber driver who was based in the Philippines. He had his entire family staying with him in his house. But because of Axie Infinity, and he figured out that he could rent some of the characters or some of the evolution sorry, the evolved bred characters from there, he turned into a millionaire. That was a fantastic story.

15:07

Renz

Yep. It was actually featured in the daily.

15:12

JP

Yeah, that was okay, so we have this movement. It's going across Southeast Asia. I know that it's gone strongly also across Eastern Europe, certain parts of America at the same time. That game itself has evolved. But the appetite for games is still on. Right, but one of the positions today is the fact that you have everybody competing for the attention of that community. Right. And being in the position that you are, what are some of the things you see that new games that are coming out there or ones that already exist? Right. What are some of the better ways that they can attract their community, build that community together?

16:05

Renz

Honestly, I think the most common thing that people are now realizing, especially in the gaming space, is that building a community is very hard and all, but creating a product that's really fun is number one. Now, most of us didn't realize back then is that were creating a movement, but that movement was kind of centered around, like, income. And gaming at the core of it all is ultimately a source of entertainment for most, right? So with that element lacking, there was no reason for people to stick, especially once the earning or the income potential kind of subsided. We are now realizing and most of the games are now focusing on this and even the current ones who are trying to constantly engage their users. Still, gaming has to be fun. It doesn't matter whether that fun comes from creating the best visuals for your game.

17:09

Renz

Doesn't matter if that comes from just basically creating that sense of community who want to play and build on top of your game or always hang out in your game, right? It doesn't matter if that actually comes from having that sense of ownership within the game. But ultimately the idea is that you would want to provide a source of entertainment for your users and building off of that, assuming you already have a nice game, there are tons of other games and this is a question that you already posed. How then do you actually create an opportunity to be able to get a share or have that loyalty from your customers, from your community? And I guess this is actually one that people haven't really figured out and I myself are still going through the journey of trying to figure it out. But one thing is for sure, people are always driven by emotions and creating that sort of emotional utility.

18:14

Renz

And this also applies to creating that sort of emotional utility either via the lore of a particular game or the people that are able to onboard as part of your communities and I guess in a way ambassadors for your particular game. Or it may be via the streamers that are constantly creating content for your particular game or for a particular project. These are the things that people are looking at in terms of community building, of course, constantly rewarding the people who have retained. Now that we're entering into a new era of being able to reward contributors, being able to make them feel part of the community in ways that are more than just playing the game, being able to communicate with them. Directly and in the same time, being able to incentivize them for staying on and for continuing to become an active member of your community are things that people are now considering and are now looking into as a means to not only get a share of that market, but in order to retain users and provide that stickiness.

19:29

JP

Well, fair enough. And definitely I can see how that would create more engagement. I kind of want to throw you a curveball here. Do you see the community relating more to characters on the screen or the sense of community that, you know, multiple players have? So for example, any of the FPS games, right, you may have great characters or you may have better utility. You have a certain type of gun, a certain type of weapon that sets you apart from the others, right? And at the same time, you may have certain kind of characters that a lot of people just relate to, like a Marvel movie. Which of these two do you think is a stronger pull to bring the community together? Or is there a difference?

20:20

Renz

I think right now it's the latter, but in the future it's going to be the former. And I'll answer why I think it's very different when you actually have ownership of your assets. The way we attach ourselves to material things is that first and foremost we own it. And then second, we actually like it and it's a physical or it's a representation of ourselves, right? And the same way that we're looking at these physical objects as a physical manifestation of ourselves, eventually our avatars, the skins that we create in game would become like digital representations of ourselves. And the way we think about it is that blockchain enables for full ownership of your asset, sometimes even outliving the lives of the original creators. And then the second thing is that games are now looking more and more into UGC. The idea of being able to bring whatever it is that you want into these games is just so powerful because at the end of the day, we used to appropriate a lot of the ideas based off the characters that we create, which ultimately is made from the idea or from the concept of these developers.

21:28

Renz

But what would happen if we actually have the power to create assets based on our own image and likeness? Right? So in a way, if you unlock that kind of potential, and again, I'm not saying that this is actually the way moving forward, but it's an interesting thought, right? The fact that we're able to bring ourselves, the fact that we're able to provide that ability to recreate and reimagine ourselves in this whole cold metaverse is actually very much appealing. And right now we spend most of our times as well on the digital space, like in social media or on website. We already do that. But we can create that experience to be more immersive. And the moment that we're able to do that with our own avatars, with our own skins, then for me, people will have that sense of attachment and they will actually join a community.

22:24

Renz

Not because they admire or they get inspired by this particular ideology, but because they are actually part of that and they're able to represent themselves in those spaces.

22:38

JP

Right? Okay. So yeah, I can totally see that it starts with, of course, the sense of ownership and at this point it is a larger part of community, but it's very quickly going to go to more of what you can relate to. And as you said, if you own it's obviously because you love it. Right? And that's one of the things that most of the new games have got to find that anchor of, they've got to find having those relatable situations or relatable characters that people will love and want to have more of. Is that encapsulated correctly?

23:20

Renz

Yes.

23:23

JP

Okay. Super. That being said, of course, developing communities comes with its own set of challenges. And I know that you guys, when you started out, you saw that there was so much that could be done, you had some of the challenges that were there, putting that community together. What were some of the challenges? And then, of course, what were some of the learnings from that?

23:46

Renz

I think the biggest challenge was really treating your community as like part of the core group. Right. I guess coming from like a Web2 background, right. I've always seen community as my customers, my clients. But the way that Web3 kind of changed that is very different because these communities are also your core contributors and used to be when you look at them from a perspective of customers or clients, then you're not able to fully share your ideas. You're not even able to communicate to them on how you want your product to go or your roadmap to be. Right. But I guess the difference with Web3 is that these people, especially those who are part of your ecosystem when they purchase like a token or when they purchase like an NFT under your platform, is that they are actually ultimately contributors and they are actually one with you similar to probably someone that you hired.

24:46

Renz

Right. And I guess treating them as one of you instead of one of them, who you have to appease, is very different from the lens of a founder like me because I used to think that these guys are our customers and we don't want to show weakness. Or it's very different because we have to present to them in a matter when we would be able to convince them to actually buy the product instead of them being part of the creation of the product or even the marketing of the product. Right. So I guess that's one of the hurdles that I first really experienced. One of the biggest ones for me because of my background and because even though people say that we're part of a community and you can tell me everything and I'm here to actually help you, it's really different. Because you know that you're not actually, quote unquote, paying them to actually be part of it.

25:45

Renz

Then you get all paranoid because they might share sensitive content outside, they might be not acting in the best interest, they might be actually working for a competitor and all of that. Right. But I think the same trust that we actually place on blockchain in general should be the same trust that we put on all of these community members that we have now. Ultimately, even though they're not acting in the best interest or they're not necessarily people who prioritize our project. Above all things else, they still want to contribute. Right? And that contribution may come in different forms, be it simple sharing of whatever news that you have, be it really providing their own insights on how the product should look like and where the product should go. And for me, these are things that have been solely underrated when it comes to community building.

26:48

Renz

And we've seen time and time again to be proven wrong that community is not just simply our clients. They could be the source of life for some of the projects that we know. It's the very same reason why NFT projects are being revived and are being taken over by different individuals. I can see a few SMB folks here, Solana Monkey Business where previously the original developers kind of didn't care about the development or like the future roadmap of the project. And it was taken over by the community who actually fell in love with their own PFPs and the community themselves. Right. Because the community has the power to make or break, like any single project. And that's one of the greatest learning that I really have. And I'm pretty sure most of us know that in one way or another, it's just really manifested in different forms.

27:39

Renz

And as we journey more into Web3 and as we immerse ourselves in the different projects, we kind of see that this is actually a very important part of any single project.

27:54

JP

Renz, I appreciate the orientation. It's refreshingly new. Because as a DAO, and I'm not saying that most of them operate exactly the same way, but as a DAO, you have the naysayers that come in and say, hey, you know what? At best, you can just have the average. You may not have the optimal outliers, but I think that you've spun that argument on its head when you say that. Treat your community like your core members. And I think that is something that a lot more people should follow because they are not customers like you're saying. Exactly. From a Web2 world, from any other industry, that would be a logical orientation, right? But when you treat them as part of the core team, then you've developed a sense of ownership that is unique to the community that you've evolved, right?

28:59

JP

Thank you for sharing. That being said, Renz, I know that this is something that you, Jet and Nico have feel very strongly about. Kudos to you guys. In addition to this will also help direct in some way some of the projects that you undertake because you've worked with some of the big names out there, like actually infinity and so on. How does this help you decide which projects you want to work on, work with, and which ones you choose? Hey, you know what? Maybe another time, right?

29:37

Renz

I think ultimately you'd want to look at your vision and what it is that you really own in terms of the space, right? And for us, it's quite simple. It's really more on the asset side of things. What we want to become is the factory of the metaverse and the big, hairy audacious goal is really to have an influence or to create and have an influence on every single assets that created in this digital world that we're entering into. And I know that's like too big of a goal. And we all know that assets are the underlying building blocks of any single digital world, right? For us, after honing in on that and really looking into our own perspective of mass customization and looking at our competencies as well, which is mass customization and mass production, right? The projects that we're working with are always around or centered around that particular goal.

30:47

Renz

How we actually create our products and how we actually produce assets is based off that idea that we want, that we really believe in. So to give you an idea, we started really off with creation and customization of playable characters. And that's really specific to gaming, right? Why? Because, one, we see that gaming is actually really still one of the best ways to allow for mass adoption just because for us, gaming is a universal language and no matter where you come from, who you are, like your gender, your race, gaming is something that you've encountered in one form of another in your life, right? And then the second would be they were actually the first largest or they were actually the first to penetrate the web3 space and to onboard a lot more users. So it started really off with playable characters. Imagine like, releasing 10,000 assets and then allowing the users or your players to actually generate the next few wave, right?

31:57

Renz

And so for us, we kind of like partook in that process where we worked with a lot of guilds and we worked with a lot of games to be able to create assets for different users and allow them to also partake in that experience. So we kind of became like the bridge between the games and the users in that effect. Right? But I think we can actually do more and this is why we're actually venturing more into the other facets of games, because now we actually look at games and see that it's not like a singular component and a game is not necessarily just dictated by its playable characters. There's content, there's lore, there's skins and wearables, and each of these components have an asset play to it. And for us, one of the biggest market and one of the biggest plays that we could actually do would be more in the skin, which, again, is very much common on games, but it's not just limited to games and creating a tool which would allow people to generate their own assets and then bridge those back into the.

32:59

Renz

Different games that we're partnered with is one that we're actually exploring. Now, if you've seen most of our recent posts, we actually shared a teaser for our next project, which is AI Skins. And this ultimately allows you, with the power of AI as well as blockchain, allow you to customize your own assets and create 3D assets from just 2D prints, which is something that we haven't really seen before because most of the implementation for mid journey and standard diffusion has always been on a 2D perspective. Right. And not to say that the metaverse is limited to 3D, but it's actually made much more understandable and much more appealing via a 3D implementation. Right. That's one of our first approach in venturing outside. And as you said, and as I've been saying, the kind of vision that we have for the project and for the brand itself ultimately dictates what sort of products we're able to create and what sorts of individuals or projects we want to partnerships with.

34:06

JP

This is interesting. I'm actually checking out the Tweet right now. Right, of course, you have the NFTs, you have the Wearables. What separates one from the other, right? What makes one project to work on more appealing to you as well as the community as opposed to another?

34:32

Renz

Well, I guess ultimately the traction that they've built is something that we look at because, again, we want to be part of every single project and I guess, in a sense, help in the asset creation, but we don't have that much resources to be able to integrate with everyone. So I guess, like users to a broader community is one that we usually look at. The way we're thinking about it is that if we're able to be successful partnering up with a project that's quite huge and has built a name for themselves, then it's easier for us to kind of create that trickle down effect to the rest of the community. Because then instead of us actively reaching out to them and then creating a custom solution for every single one, that we can create like a standardized solution, which then all of these other projects can now apply.

35:27

Renz

It's the same reason why in terms of games, we're partnering with the biggest ones, starting off with Axie Infinity, then moving to the likes of Digi de Gaku, Pet Polygon, as well as Azure games. And then in terms of the branding side, in terms of fashion, we're looking at UNXT as one of our biggest partners. So, yeah, eventually the way we're thinking about it is that how do we actually create the largest impact and then how do we essentially target the largest user base so that if and when we kind of become successful, then it's easier or it's an easier conversation to the rest of the world or to the rest of the projects.

36:11

JP

Fair enough.

36:12

Renz

Okay.

36:12

JP

So that certainly is a guiding star in how you select the projects that you want to work with because your contributions are immense. The orientation in which you take is different from everybody else. And of course, you're working on new and exciting projects, so that's a huge plus. Right. I'm going to go out on the limb here and ask you what was, for you, one of your favorite projects to have worked on?

36:43

Renz

I guess it's really the start of BreederDAO because that kind of gave us the confidence and in a way, that kind of created our legacy for ourselves as well. Right. And that was actually done via breeding of Axie Infinity characters. Breed it out in its core is actually producing assets at scale. And we first showed up with Axie Infinity. Back then, Axie Infinity was experiencing a huge growth and were similar to other players. We were trying to get like SLP and then exchanging that for fiat and then basically utilizing our assets to generate revenue. But when we thought about it's not as simple as just being able to earn from it. And if we really wanted to make a larger impact and assuming that this trajectory kind of continues for them, there needs to be someone to create assets at a larger scale instead of just allowing the guilds to fend up for themselves and then create assets by themselves or buy from the markets and rely from the breeders.

38:01

Renz

39:21

Renz

We've managed to create up to like 100,000 assets in general. Of course, bulk of it is actually via a Infinity. But I guess what's really important for us is not the amount of revenue that we're able to generate from that, but the amount of people and individuals that were able touch because of this asset. While, you know there were people who actually lost their money with Axie Infinity, I know of a few people who also gained a lot from this, which jump started their career in web Three. And that to me, kind of is the purpose or the reason why we're actually here. Because we know that assets and blockchain powered assets can actually change lives. And the more that we produce, the more that we can influence people and the more that we can transform more lives in the process.

40:19

JP

Well, I can totally see that arc, and I'm certain that would have been a very exciting proposition to have the opportunity to work on a game that you love, one that has been a sweeping movement, because at the time that you're mentioning it was taking over the world by storm. Right. Those must have been very exciting times. Very exciting times indeed. Okay. So that being said, Renz, I'm curious from here on, right. I know that there's a change in trends that are happening. And of course, where it comes to the space that you're in, share with us what you see as some of the evolutions that are happening in new avenues. Of either the models that you're seeing that are coming out with games and NFTs and in some ways, also the trend that some of these games that they're taking in terms of which ones are becoming hot favorites.

41:27

JP

What's your take on that?

41:28

Renz

Right. So I guess I'll start with the general frame of mind that we have with gaming in general. So previously, the way we look at decentralization within games has always been centered around playable assets, right? It's why the models were usually buy an asset and then play it, or buy an asset because you can create more assets and then you can sell those assets and then earn from it. So that was the frame of mind that we had when we first ventured into it. And you can see from a lot of other games that came out after Infinity that this was the most common mindset of everyone and people weren't looking at playability, people weren't looking at other forms of content to be able to bring or add value to the table. But I guess looking at it and trying to look at decentralization within games in the form of being able to decentralize the creation of playable characters, we've actually came a long way from that.

42:29

Renz

And now you can see that aside from people creating better content, right. The idea of blockchain and its application to game is also being pushed forward. A game is not just simply about its playable characters, and I've mentioned that earlier. But what we're now seeing is that if a game is not just simply its playable characters, then what's it about? Right? You look at the different components of games, starting with playable characters and then moving into skins and wearables, and then moving into lore, moving into content, moving into environment creation and other things. Right? Now you take a look at every single component and see that there's actually projects that are championing the decentralization of every single aspect. You have Strider who's actually trying to create a decentralized idea of a lore where instead of the developers kind of dictating the entire story or the entire narrative, you now have people participating in where the story would go.

43:32

Renz

Right? You have Treasure DAO who's trying to create like a decentralized environment for creation, where the games themselves are not necessarily just being built by the developers, but different content are being created by other participants in the ecosystem. And then you have for environment creation, you have NFT worlds or the likes of NFT worlds who are actually building the infrastructure to be able to support the creation of different worlds based off the imagination of whoever wants to create. Right. So we're now seeing a huge shift because we're also exploring not just what would make people want to play a game, but what would actually be an interesting application for blockchain that we've never done before. And I guess apart from the actual composition of the game, we're now looking at different ways to also engage with our users. Do I onboard users via free NFTs because then I create like a buy in for them and they spend nothing to potentially earn something and be part of a community that not only that they want, that also rewards them.

44:42

Renz

Right. So these are the things that we're now looking into and these are things that I wouldn't say weren't possible before, but were hard to implement before. And now that we've actually taken this new direction and people are entering this new era, we're now realizing the value that it can bring to the table. And that's quite fascinating for me as a founder and also as a participant in this entire space.

45:12

JP

I like how you close with that as a founder and a participant because you're immersed so deeply into not just what you're doing with the team as well, but also as a gamer. That perspective is priceless. Right. I'm glad that you touched upon those parts about where the evolution is happening because the density of what went into a game before and what it requires to have now is exactly as you've described it. Right. Playability the element of fun characters that you can relate to, the lore that goes behind it, and even the environment as it's getting built needs to be stronger in all these parts before you have a game that really lasts the test of time. I remember Final Fantasy as one of the examples you've mentioned from its days in PlayStation, right? And how it evolved, the number of characters that got added on, the various weapons that were mired in mythology, as a lot of these games do.

46:18

JP

Right. It leads me to think about what are some of the risks that you see in these spaces that people should watch out for? What are some of the dangers of these emerging and these evolutions that happen from what we like to where we are going?

46:43

Renz

Well, I think it's one is very obvious if they actually just ape into it without actually doing any due diligence because there's still a lot of bad actors. And I'm not saying this specific to Crypto, right, because there's a lot of bad actors everywhere. Just earlier this morning, I read a news about people, or people getting rugged because factory workers for Pokémon cards were actually getting their rares and then selling it in a black market or outside, right? So now every time you purchase a pack, you can more or less expect that there's not going to be any rare in there. The idea of Gotcha or the randomization of it all isn't actually happening because people are rugging you in the same manner as our looking at it in the space, right? If you actually just go into it without really fully analyzing, there's going to be a lot of bad actors versus a company who's managing Pokémon, right?

47:54

Renz

Both of these actors are currently anonymous, right. And if it can happen to companies like that, then you can bet for sure that it will happen here. And now that it's like meme, coin season, a lot of people are getting burnt again. A lot of people are earning as well, right? So really trying to do your own research and placing your bets on specific things would really be immensely helpful and something to do to be able to counter some of the risk. I guess another risk that I would say is that a lot of these are actually experiments and we're not saying that these are going to be the future, right? These are potentially things that we will enjoy down the line, but these are also things that may just very well get lost in its trap, right? So the things that we're trying to create right now, decentralized, lower decentralized content, decentralized ownership, what if ultimately people don't want them?

48:56

Renz

Right? And it's not to say that it's bad because we kind of like spam on these things, right? Or sometimes there might be like a really good idea, but poor execution. So for me, risk in terms of maybe profitability and I guess aligning yourselves towards a particular ideology, right? It's always something that's going to be present with any innovation and with Blockchain being at the forefront of that innovation. It's not going to surprise me if most of the stuff that we have nowadays that we seem to believe to be the future will eventually end up in trash. Or I guess you can also see all sorts of risk from that one, right, if you actually ape in and put all your money there. I guess just give like an example. Do Kwon came up with the idea of stable coins and people were all amazed by the fact that it's actually the future, right?

50:02

Renz

But we all know what happened there. And I guess not to say that it was actually a bad idea. In fact, I remember seeing one of CZ's tweets that it's actually a good idea, just poorly executed. Because there's also a case to be made where Fiat and backing these stable coins with simply a government backed currency is also something or can also be like a cause of concern. Right. And that's the reason why we know SVB, the USDC, the Pegging and all of that, because there's always going to be risk in the market. Right. And going back to my earlier point of doing research and then really understanding what it is that you're betting in and not simply aping it for the sake of earning, is also something that's really crucial for all of us and something that we should watch out for.

50:53

JP

Well, and suffice it to say, it is good advice. And often a large number of us, especially those that are new into the space, we want to believe that nothing bad can happen. Right. But it does happen to the best of us. The question is, all right, maybe let me ask you this. How do we, as a community help circumvent these risks? What is it that we should do to protect ourselves?

51:22

Renz

Right. One of the things that I really appreciate about the Web3 community is that they're very much open to providing feedback and providing information. And for me, just like with any innovation, education is always going to be key. Right. Without understanding. And because we're at this nascency stage, without understanding what it is we're trying to do, then we couldn't really push the limits of what's possible. Right. So it start really with education, and the community is or would be the best, I guess, project platform that should be able to propagate this kind of information. And ultimately, each person has its own or have their own network. So sharing that across your network is one of the ways where the community can actually push this forward.

52:16

JP

True. Yeah. I guess that the more people that know about it, for example, you have considerable experience in the industry, and you're speaking about this as a cautionary point. That's a good forum. More people who have been victims of situations like this, whether it's throughout polls, or whether it's those especially if it's those fake links that tell you can buy this token in exchange for ETH, the BNB, or even Bitcoin. This is exactly some of the things that you have to watch out for. Right. So let it be said, ladies and gentlemen, you've heard it here. Protect yourself, do your own research. Check multiple times. I don't know if I said it before, but check once again before you make that investment and that transfer. Right? Yeah. Okay. I want to pivot because I know that we're coming to the end of the show. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have questions that you would like to ask Renz, please tweet them into AdLunam Inc.

53:21

JP

Or you can ask them up on the show. You can even send a message to our host. If you want to voice it absolutely fine. Just raise your hand and our team will get to you. But I've got two more questions where

53:39

JP

This is concerned, right? So the first one, Renz, is you have an illustrious career. You've picked on projects that have had huge potential, have understood the market in the market need. Right? And one of the things is what keeps your focus on that? Where's your inspiration coming from, Renz? What are your sources of inspiration where these things are concerned?

54:10

Renz

Right. I'll be honest, actually, and I won't say that I've been making the best bets. In fact, I guess it's true for most of us.

54:20

JP

Checking Sound just 1 second. Renz, can you hear me?

54:23

Renz

Hello? Yes. Are you able to hear me?

54:30

JP

No. Check. Sound.

54:33

Renz

Hello?

54:35

JP

Yes. There you are. You're back.

54:37

JP

Okay, sorry, not sure if you caught the question. Let me know.

54:39

Renz

Yeah, I actually did. As I was saying, I wouldn't be making the best bets, like every single time or every single step. In fact, I guess it's kind of true for most of us. What people know about us is usually what's written in our CVs. And what's written in our CVs are usually the success stories. Right. But I've actually dabbled in a lot of projects that have also failed. And I guess just to share some of the ones that I've actually did, I dabbled in aquaponics hydroponics. Wasn't really successful. I realized I didn't have the ability to grow fishes and plants at the same time. And yeah, ended up killing a lot of fish in the process. But, yeah, it was a learning process for me. And I realized I didn't want to cause more harm to the environment than I wanted to because I started off this project trying to make a sustainable way to generate, produce and not kill them off in the process.

55:40

Renz

And also as one related to community selling, where it became really huge, I guess in the country or in the Philippines and I guess all over the world, especially when borders were down, right, or malls were closed, people needed to get their goods. And so we created mini malls in the context of these smaller communities, within villages and all of that. So we have a spot where we drop off all the goods. And again, when the country started easing up its restrictions, then we realized that it was time to move on from that idea. And then I guess call it a day, right? But I guess what I'm saying is that in life and I guess in my own experience, we don't really make the best bets every single time. The way that we actually should go about it is that every time there's an idea, we go for it.

56:44

Renz

And I know that resources are limited and all of that, but the same way as how VC thinks about these things, right? There's a cool idea, I want to invest in it, but I don't necessarily believe that it's going to moon or it's going to make up for every single or all my investments are going to be a winner, right? What I'm hoping to believe is that eventually I land on a project that's going to really boom and that's going to really compensate for the 100 other projects that I actually invested in that are good ideas. But it's not just about the idea, ultimately, right? And you may have the best people on board, but if your execution is flawed, ultimately, then it can make or break like a project. So what I'm saying here is that just go ahead, test things out, experiment if you want, innovate, push the boundaries of yourself and continuously challenge yourself because that's the only way that you're able to really, I guess, in a way become successful.

57:44

Renz

And that's a way that you're able to identify who you want to be, what you want to do, and then where do you want to spend your time in.

57:55

JP

Interesting. And thank you for sharing that, Renz, because a lot of us, as you said in your CV, you're going to see all your wins, right? But the objective is to keep moving, keep experimenting, keep trying, and know when it's the time for you to back away from something that is as matured, that has reached its prime, and that's that. Okay? So thank you for sharing that. That's one secret of success. My second question to you about that was, Renz, you've had, like I said, an illustrious career, been at the forefront of some admirable, even envious activity, right? But what is your personal philosophy and what keeps you going?

58:45

Renz

I guess this is something that people kind of believe to be something that's innate with everyone, but they don't really value it as much, especially since they take it as like or they really take it from candid. It's really the idea of trusting in yourself and not backing down from any challenge. And I know it's been time and time repeated and people around you would usually tell you, right? But it's different when you actually imbibe it and you really believe in it. Right? So it's one thing that people believe in you, but believing in yourself comes first and foremost for me, because believing in yourself would actually give you the frame of mind to believe that this is actually the right path for me. And believing that is actually the right path for you would then force you to actually try harder than the rest.

59:36

Renz

And ultimately, sometimes it takes another try to make yourself successful. And for me, that's really what I usually go with. It's not that I'm overly confident about myself, it's just that I believe in myself and I trust in myself. And I trust that whatever I do, I should always do 100% just because I trust that my heart is in the right place and my beliefs are in the right place. And making yourself confident would actually create a consequential effect of you always wanting to make things successful. And sometimes it's on the mind. Right. The moment that you put your trust in something, then you will. People have been saying you manifest it and that's absolutely true time and time again. I've always seen it happen, not just to myself, but to other people. Sometimes in jokes, right, you're going to win the lottery or something and suddenly you actually did.

Renz

Right? But, yeah, for me, having that complete confidence and trust in yourself would more often than not lead you to success. And that's the journey that I've been encountering. That has been my experience and that's where I want to keep continuing with my journey.

JP

There's a popular saying, believe in yourself and you're halfway there 100%. Those are great words to live by, great thoughts to have and thank you for sharing them. Renz, appreciate you taking the time. And hats off to you and your team at BreederDAO, Jet, Nico, you guys are phenomenal. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

Renz

Likewise, JP. It's been a pleasure. I really enjoyed the conversation and I hope the audience also enjoyed it as much as we did. But, yeah, always happy to be part and to share my thoughts and to hopefully influence one guy out there who also is venturing into the space and trying to learn the ropes of how to become like a founder.

JP

Brilliant. So thank you for sharing those insights, Renz. I'm certain that we're going to have a lot of people inspired know when this comes out on Spotify as well. We will, of course, be sharing that with you, but I know that the message is going to spread far and wide. So looking forward to it. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being on the show. This is JP from AdLunam Inc. bringing you everything about web3. Thank you. Have a great day. Cheers.