Artwork for podcast How to Take the Lead
Emotionally intelligent leadership
Episode 430th June 2022 • How to Take the Lead • Lee Griffith and Carrie-Ann Wade
00:00:00 00:28:43

Share Episode

Shownotes

In this episode we explore emotional intelligence... what is it? How aware of your own emotional intelligence are you as a leader? Can you look to build an emotionally intelligent team? We also reference the work on emotional intelligence by Daniel Goleman.

In this episode we share our thoughts, experiences and learning, including:

  • 05:47 – being vulnerable as a leader
  • 18:23 – putting your judgements aside
  • 24:30 – values-based recruitment and EQ/ IQ
  • 26:26 – how to become more emotionally intelligent

For further reading, Lee recommended Connect by David Bradford and Carole Robin.

-----------------

If you enjoyed this episode why not subscribe to the podcast. We would love it if you left us a rating or review and feel free to share the link to this episode with anyone else you think would find it interesting, using #HowToTakeTheLead

You can find out more about Lee Griffith via www.sundayskies.com and Carrie-Ann Wade at www.cats-pajamas.co.uk

Get social with us via:

Lee on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.

Carrie-Ann on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.

Transcripts

Lee Griffith:

They seem to be put up on a pedestal and and it

Lee Griffith:

drives me mad.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I knew your soapbox moment was coming.

Lee Griffith:

You're listening to How To Take The Lead with Lee

Lee Griffith:

Griffith

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and Carrie-Ann Wade.

Lee Griffith:

Two corporate colleagues turned business

Lee Griffith:

besties who question everything we've ever learned about

Lee Griffith:

leadership.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

What started with us putting the world to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

rights over a gin after work is now a weekly show challenging

Carrie-Ann Wade:

perceptions and exploring what leadership looks like in the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

modern day.

Lee Griffith:

We'll also be sharing our experiences and

Lee Griffith:

stories along the way.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

You can find our show notes at

Lee Griffith:

Hit subscribe to receive new episodes every Thursday.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

We'd love for you to rate or leave a review of

Carrie-Ann Wade:

the show.

Lee Griffith:

And please share your thoughts and stories on the

Lee Griffith:

howtotakethelead.com

Lee Griffith:

topics we cover using the hashtag how to take the lead.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Hello everybody welcome to episode four of How

Carrie-Ann Wade:

To Take The Lead podcast series. It's me Carrie-Ann and I am here

Carrie-Ann Wade:

with the lovely Lee. Hello Lee.

Lee Griffith:

Hello.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thank you to everybody who is joining us to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

listen to this episode and as always really keen to hear

Carrie-Ann Wade:

people's thoughts. So after people have listened we'd love

Carrie-Ann Wade:

people to comment, tell us what they think about what we've

Carrie-Ann Wade:

talked about. But in this episode we are going to be

Carrie-Ann Wade:

focused on emotional intelligence.

Lee Griffith:

Sounds very sophisticated.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And do you know what I think people think that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and actually it is really not when you really start to think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

about it. It's not at all but it sounds like some big scary,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

lofty, lofty topic, but we want to cover what is emotional

Carrie-Ann Wade:

intelligence in the context of leadership. That's the plan for

Carrie-Ann Wade:

this conversation. And I did a Lee in my preparation for this

Carrie-Ann Wade:

session. I thought I'm going to be more Lee.

Lee Griffith:

You mean get it all wrong and misquote it?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

No, no, I've been doing I've been doing good

Carrie-Ann Wade:

on that front in this series so far myself. No, I thought what

Carrie-Ann Wade:

would Lee do. I'm gonna start out with a good old fashioned

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Google and just to recap what Google said around emotional

Carrie-Ann Wade:

intelligence so that hopefully it feels slightly less scary as

Carrie-Ann Wade:

we start our conversation. So emotional intelligence,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

according to the wonderful world that is the internet, is the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

ability to understand use and manage your own emotions in

Carrie-Ann Wade:

positive ways. And in doing so you might be doing a number of

Carrie-Ann Wade:

things, you might be relieving stress. You might be

Carrie-Ann Wade:

communicating more effectively, empathising with others, looking

Carrie-Ann Wade:

to overcome challenges and potentially defusing conflict.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

So actually it's just all about how we as individuals and humans

Carrie-Ann Wade:

kind of understand and manage our sort of own emotional input

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and impact I guess that's what I was taken from, from that. So I

Carrie-Ann Wade:

don't know initially if you've got any thoughts about that Lee,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

but also taking it that one step forward, how you might describe

Carrie-Ann Wade:

emotional intelligence in the context of leadership.

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, I like that definition. And I agree that a

Lee Griffith:

lot of it, it does start with yourself. So being aware and

Lee Griffith:

recognising your emotions when they arise. But using that to

Lee Griffith:

bring awareness in your interactions with people, in

Lee Griffith:

order to build connection, and to be adaptable in different

Lee Griffith:

situations is kind of how I look at it. It's a really interesting

Lee Griffith:

one because I think being emotional at work. Is something

Lee Griffith:

that has got better but still has quite a stigma attached to

Lee Griffith:

it. And that old advice of you know, don't wear your heart on

Lee Griffith:

your sleeve.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I was waiting for you to get that saying wrong

Carrie-Ann Wade:

there. Lee with that little stutter I was like, hang on,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

we're gonna have our first Leeism of the series.

Lee Griffith:

Nope, I got it right I remembered. As a woman,

Lee Griffith:

you know, you can be told you're too sensitive or don't be

Lee Griffith:

dramatic, or you need to toughen up or man up you know, that's a

Lee Griffith:

phrase that absolutely I was gonna say swear word then and I

Lee Griffith:

stopped myself. So I think people are being more accepting

Lee Griffith:

now in the leadership world of emotional intelligence, but

Lee Griffith:

there's more work to do. And I think that the other thing is

Lee Griffith:

that their emotions in themselves is you can have more

Lee Griffith:

than one emotion at one time. And they can be conflicting with

Lee Griffith:

each other. And that can be quite a personal challenge, but

Lee Griffith:

also even more complex when you're dealing with other people

Lee Griffith:

and that interaction with people. You asked me a question,

Lee Griffith:

which was how to leadership and I haven't answered that.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Honestly, I was just gonna come in on your point

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you made there about having different emotions at play

Carrie-Ann Wade:

because that's absolutely true, that you don't experience

Carrie-Ann Wade:

things, whether that's in the workplace or, or outside of it,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

often where you only have one emotional reaction or, or one

Carrie-Ann Wade:

emotional response to that. So actually, I think, in the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

context of emotional intelligence, it's about exactly

Carrie-Ann Wade:

the point you made around having that self awareness to think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

about how you're going to manage those conflicting emotions. And

Carrie-Ann Wade:

which of those might you need to kind of bring to the forefront

Carrie-Ann Wade:

to be able to defuse the situation, overcome the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

challenge, empathise with others and which of those might you

Carrie-Ann Wade:

have to park and and deal with in a different space and a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

different time to support yourself? Because I guess you're

Carrie-Ann Wade:

right, isn't it is that conflict of dealing with more than one

Carrie-Ann Wade:

emotion and also that potential conflict of dealing with your

Carrie-Ann Wade:

own personal reaction in response to something versus

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that of your wider team or your organisation. But sorry, I was

Carrie-Ann Wade:

just responding to what you said but appreciate I've posed your

Carrie-Ann Wade:

question that I've not let you answer yet Lee.

Lee Griffith:

I think you've raised an important point. And I

Lee Griffith:

always look at it from a leadership perspective, your

Lee Griffith:

mood, or your emotion is the thing that sets the tone and

Lee Griffith:

standard for others. And if we look at it through the lens of

Lee Griffith:

vulnerability and showing your emotion, if you're not

Lee Griffith:

vulnerable as a leader, you are not encouraging other people to

Lee Griffith:

be even if you think you are, your actions will speak volumes

Lee Griffith:

more than than your words. So whilst you might be encouraging

Lee Griffith:

people to speak out and speak up and come and talk to you open

Lee Griffith:

door, blah, blah, blah. If you don't show your vulnerability

Lee Griffith:

and show when things are getting you down or when things might be

Lee Griffith:

a challenge or whatever, then you're not giving that

Lee Griffith:

permission to your team. So I think that's a really important

Lee Griffith:

part of leadership. Yeah, and the precedent that you set.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Yeah, I absolutely agree. And, you know,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Yeah, I mean, you're talking you talked about crying at work.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I guess working through the pandemic, for many people have

Carrie-Ann Wade:

provided some of these really extreme sort of challenging

Carrie-Ann Wade:

situations where there be highly emotional responses and, and I

Carrie-Ann Wade:

remember working for my chief executive at the time, and

Carrie-Ann Wade:

having to deal with a really difficult situation where we

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I've cried many a time at work, but I remember one boss that I

Carrie-Ann Wade:

were having to manage and plan the communications around the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

death of the staff member from COVID, which is just the worst

Carrie-Ann Wade:

possible thing we could be thinking we'd have to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

communicate and actually the way, the pace, everything that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

was going on at work. I remember being in front of my chief

Carrie-Ann Wade:

executive and bursting into tears about it, because I just

Carrie-Ann Wade:

had, who didn't do tears, and I remember crying and they're like

Carrie-Ann Wade:

found it really difficult. And actually, I was thinking, we're

Carrie-Ann Wade:

finding this difficult we're doing the work bit imagine this

Carrie-Ann Wade:

person's family. Imagine this person's team, it just feels a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

bit too much. And then I do remember thinking at the time,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

like oh god, how's my chief exec gonna react to this? Actually,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I don't know what to do, literally it was and that made

Carrie-Ann Wade:

he was so I don't know so empathetic, I guess about my own

Carrie-Ann Wade:

reaction to it that actually, it didn't make me feel like I'd

Carrie-Ann Wade:

done the wrong thing by expressing that emotion. And he

Carrie-Ann Wade:

actually said, it would be really strange if we weren't

Carrie-Ann Wade:

responding to this situation in this way because it wouldn't be

Carrie-Ann Wade:

me worse. And then I was really conscious afterwards of not

Carrie-Ann Wade:

natural for us not to be upset by having to deal with something

Carrie-Ann Wade:

like this. And I could tell that he was shaken and upset as well.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Not to the point of tears, but enough to know that that made me

Carrie-Ann Wade:

feel okay that I was having that reaction. So yeah, I do think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

it's, there's something about demonstrating sort of your own

Carrie-Ann Wade:

wanting to show that vulnerability or emotion again,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

integrity and authenticity, as a leader like you were saying, if

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you're not prepared to be vulnerable, or demonstrate that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

how can you expect other people to be?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

now I'm can easily cry, but my crying isn't often as a result

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I was gonna say, note, note to self if I ever make Lee cry it

Carrie-Ann Wade:

of me feeling upset. I'm one of those people that can get angry,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

basically just means she's really peed off with me and I've

Carrie-Ann Wade:

frustrated. And then cry as a reaction to that actually I get

Carrie-Ann Wade:

made her very angry.

Lee Griffith:

But obviously I get upset. At other things at

Lee Griffith:

other times, but usually in the workplace, my tears would come

Lee Griffith:

angry quite a lot so it can easily be triggered.

Lee Griffith:

out of the frustration at the situation. The fact that I

Lee Griffith:

couldn't express that frustration frustrates me even

Lee Griffith:

more, so. It was just a very messy, messy situation, but it's

Lee Griffith:

had quite a lasting impact on me.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Yeah, and I think you made a point earlier

Carrie-Ann Wade:

about adaptability and being able to demonstrate that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

adaptability as a leader. And I think that you know, that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

example that you've just given your boss didn't do tears. I

Carrie-Ann Wade:

mean, that just goes to show a leader who's not going to be

Carrie-Ann Wade:

adaptable, and you have to realise as a leader that not

Carrie-Ann Wade:

everyone is going to deal with the situation in the same way as

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you not everyone's going to respond in the same way as you.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

But if they don't, that doesn't mean it's the wrong response.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

You have to be adaptable and supportive. work through that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

with people people as their leader, so I'm going to move

Carrie-Ann Wade:

this on slightly, but I think it fits nicely because we've just

Carrie-Ann Wade:

been talking about sobbing, crying, showing all of that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

emotion and maybe that links a little bit with with a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

perception I think that some people have in the leadership

Carrie-Ann Wade:

space, in the in the workplace that all of these things we've

Carrie-Ann Wade:

talked about around kind of communicate. It's about like

Carrie-Ann Wade:

communicating and building empathy, building trust,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

building relationships. Often these sorts of things can be

Carrie-Ann Wade:

seen as soft skills. And I feel a soapbox moment potentially

Carrie-Ann Wade:

coming on here because I know throughout this series and

Carrie-Ann Wade:

others of Take The Lead we don't agree with these things being

Carrie-Ann Wade:

soft skills. What are your thoughts on that? And does it

Carrie-Ann Wade:

talking about leadership, needing to be more emotionally

Carrie-Ann Wade:

intelligent kind of get badged into that perception that that's

Carrie-Ann Wade:

just soft skills that are not particularly important?

Lee Griffith:

Yeah, it's a really interesting one. I was

Lee Griffith:

reading some research a while back which said, one of the most

Lee Griffith:

common complaints of new leaders is that they lack empathy. And

Lee Griffith:

it's usually because they've probably excelled as an

Lee Griffith:

individual in their area, and then they've never had to deal

Lee Griffith:

with that team dynamic before and I think this absolutely

Lee Griffith:

comes down to the fundamental point that organisations and

Lee Griffith:

individuals don't value these so called soft skills, which are

Lee Griffith:

actually I want to call them bloody hard complex skills.

Lee Griffith:

Because they take a lot of work. They are so dynamic in the sense

Lee Griffith:

of every you can say maths is really hard or building a

Lee Griffith:

skyscraper is really hard and really complex, but they're not

Lee Griffith:

because they've got a formula that you follow. And yes, you

Lee Griffith:

need to be skilled and specialist in that area, but

Lee Griffith:

usually there's a manual or something that you follow. When

Lee Griffith:

you come down to the soft skills, how you communicate with

Lee Griffith:

people, how you should how you demonstrate active listening,

Lee Griffith:

how you connect with people, empathy and all of that. It is

Lee Griffith:

so complex because it is so different for every single

Lee Griffith:

person and we can look at it through our own lens and what we

Lee Griffith:

believe our context to be but then we have to understand it

Lee Griffith:

from the context of others. Every single person's context is

Lee Griffith:

different. You know, this is a really, really intricate skill

Lee Griffith:

and understanding that leaders need to have yet they are

Lee Griffith:

devalued so much, whereas the skills that can be learned in

Lee Griffith:

terms of are you good at maths, can you do a spreadsheet, blah,

Lee Griffith:

blah, blah. They seem to be put up on a pedestal and and it

Lee Griffith:

drives me mad.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I knew your soapbox moment was coming

Carrie-Ann Wade:

because we've had this conversation before about

Carrie-Ann Wade:

exactly as you say like things that are specifically linked to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

maybe a profession, say finance, HR, whatever, are often seen as

Carrie-Ann Wade:

far more important sort of skill point of view than these

Carrie-Ann Wade:

perceived softer skills, but actually, like you say, often

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you can teach some more of those professional skills in a way

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that you really can't teach somebody about being more

Carrie-Ann Wade:

empathetic, about how to defuse conflict, about being more

Carrie-Ann Wade:

diplomatic, potentially, you know, it's not necessarily

Carrie-Ann Wade:

things that you can just put someone on a course on and teach

Carrie-Ann Wade:

them how to do it's actually something that people have to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

practice and people have to, there's a bit of it that people

Carrie-Ann Wade:

have to want to be able to demonstrate that skill set,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

people have to want to actively listen to somebody, empathise

Carrie-Ann Wade:

with somebody in a way that is different from being a finance

Carrie-Ann Wade:

person.

Lee Griffith:

Getting to CEO level is not easy, staying

Lee Griffith:

there's harder still. The average UK CEO tenure is less

Lee Griffith:

than five years. Meanwhile, 50% of executives don't make 18

Lee Griffith:

months in post. That's why it's essential you don't leave those

Lee Griffith:

first days and weeks in your dream job to chance. Being

Lee Griffith:

intentional with what you see, say and do is a must have first

Lee Griffith:

step if you're going to make the right impact. With the 100 day

Lee Griffith:

plan I help you get clear on your big vision, set a strategy

Lee Griffith:

that connects and the communications plan to deliver

Lee Griffith:

it. Using my six steps to make an impact framework. You will

Lee Griffith:

have intensive one to one support blending coaching

Lee Griffith:

strategy days and done with you consulting as well as my expert

Lee Griffith:

eye on all your messaging and communications. Visit some

Lee Griffith:

sundayskies.com to find out more.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

If you're enjoying this episode of How To

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Take The Lead please hit subscribe and why not leave a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

review or rating. We'd also love to hear your stories and

Carrie-Ann Wade:

thoughts on today's topic. Please DM us, our links are in

Carrie-Ann Wade:

the show notes or tag us into your socials using the hashtag

Carrie-Ann Wade:

how to take the lead.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I guess with that in mind, and us talking about the perceptions

Carrie-Ann Wade:

of sort of emotional intelligence and the types of

Carrie-Ann Wade:

skills that we're talking about, how as a leader, can you

Carrie-Ann Wade:

actually demonstrate that you are operating with emotional

Carrie-Ann Wade:

intelligence? What are your thoughts around that?

Lee Griffith:

Well, I think going back to your previous

Lee Griffith:

point, which which links to this question is that it is something

Lee Griffith:

that you can work on and improve. And actually it's one

Lee Griffith:

of those unique areas almost that you can almost get better

Lee Griffith:

with age. Because older people as you get older and you have

Lee Griffith:

more experience you do tend to become better with your

Lee Griffith:

emotional intelligence, which is quite an interesting, and

Lee Griffith:

there's data to back this up. It's not just me with some, you

Lee Griffith:

know, stereotype that I'm forcing on you. So it's quite

Lee Griffith:

interesting. Daniel Goleman has written quite a lot around

Lee Griffith:

emotional intelligence using what's called EQ that the fact

Lee Griffith:

that actually your EQ is a better skill set and marker than

Lee Griffith:

your IQ for people but he looks at five areas in terms of how he

Lee Griffith:

defines it or how you demonstrate it. There's a thing

Lee Griffith:

about self awareness which we've been talking about a lot, that

Lee Griffith:

thing about being curious, inquiring what's important to

Lee Griffith:

that person that you're talking to or engaging with or

Lee Griffith:

understanding for yourself what's important to you. Self

Lee Griffith:

regulation, so removing that up and down of emotion that can

Lee Griffith:

happen, leading by example, which we've already talked about

Lee Griffith:

quite a few times. Motivation is the third area that he talks

Lee Griffith:

about a lot. So understanding and we mentioned this a lot

Lee Griffith:

going back to the why understanding the why what what

Lee Griffith:

your why is and what someone else's, why it is and how you

Lee Griffith:

use in a form of optimism to motivate and again, I think

Lee Griffith:

we've we've talked about the fact that leaders can often do

Lee Griffith:

scaremongering tactics to try and get action from their teams.

Lee Griffith:

Actually, there's the emotional intelligence around optimism is

Lee Griffith:

a really great driver. And takes greater action. Empathy, we've

Lee Griffith:

talked a lot about and then the social skills so that connection

Lee Griffith:

to communication. For me, I think there's the skills of

Lee Griffith:

listening, making sure that you're being fully involved in

Lee Griffith:

that conversation and fully understanding of the other

Lee Griffith:

person. It's really important we don't bring our own judgement

Lee Griffith:

into discussions that we're having as a leader, and that we

Lee Griffith:

don't go to that place of trying to figure out a solution, which

Lee Griffith:

particularly if you're a high achiever, you might want to get

Lee Griffith:

in there and tackle topics straight away. But that can turn

Lee Griffith:

a lot of people off. And so it is that thing for me about being

Lee Griffith:

curious and asking lots of questions, open ended questions,

Lee Griffith:

don't close down the discussion and listen for emotions in

Lee Griffith:

people. So it might be some physical things that you can see

Lee Griffith:

in people but it might be words that they use to then go on and

Lee Griffith:

expressing emotion and I suppose the other thing is how you

Lee Griffith:

respond to someone. So using words to say that you recognise

Lee Griffith:

what someone's feelings are, that you empathise with, that

Lee Griffith:

sounds really upsetting or I can understand why you're feeling

Lee Griffith:

like that. Is a really good way to demonstrate that empathy and

Lee Griffith:

emotional intelligence if someone else and gets them to

Lee Griffith:

open up.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Absolutely. And it's funny, you should talk

Carrie-Ann Wade:

about kind of then what do you do when someone has shared with

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you? How do you respond to that and actually I did some training

Carrie-Ann Wade:

today in my day job around supporting people in your

Carrie-Ann Wade:

organisations to speak up when potentially something goes

Carrie-Ann Wade:

wrong. And there was a huge amount in there about how you

Carrie-Ann Wade:

recognise how challenging it can be for people to actually share

Carrie-Ann Wade:

where they're at, raise concerns, and actually a really

Carrie-Ann Wade:

important part not only of that, is saying what you're going to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

do about it, and reflecting back what you've heard, and checking

Carrie-Ann Wade:

in that what you've heard is what that person is trying to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

say to you, that just the basics of thanking somebody for sharing

Carrie-Ann Wade:

something that might actually have felt like a challenge for

Carrie-Ann Wade:

them can go a long way in terms of connection and empathy. So

Carrie-Ann Wade:

yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned a couple of things

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that you've said that really resonated with me so it's funny

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that you should talk about how with age yu probably your EQ, so

Carrie-Ann Wade:

your emotional quality and probably improves because of the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

experience that you bring, but I've had experiences before

Carrie-Ann Wade:

where I started new, very senior roles and actually been put into

Carrie-Ann Wade:

some quite difficult challenging conversations with people. I

Carrie-Ann Wade:

actually had somebody say to me afterwards, after a particularly

Carrie-Ann Wade:

challenging conversation, I was really surprised at how well you

Carrie-Ann Wade:

handled that person and how you were able to defuse that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

situation. I wasn't expecting you to be able to do that so

Carrie-Ann Wade:

well, because you're so young. So I do think, you know, there's

Carrie-Ann Wade:

the flip side to that, which is making an assumption that that

Carrie-Ann Wade:

maybe people don't come with that level of emotional

Carrie-Ann Wade:

intelligence, because maybe it comes more ayurally in the the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

way that they deal with but But the other point that he made

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that really resonated with me and actually, I was thinking

Carrie-Ann Wade:

about this in terms of you know, we like to share I always like

Carrie-Ann Wade:

to share some top tips and I don't want to overdo it, but the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

judgement piece I think is really important as a leader,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

trying your very best to be non judgmental, and I know everyone

Carrie-Ann Wade:

comes with their own judgments and their own biases around

Carrie-Ann Wade:

certain situations. But I think as a leader, you really have to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

try and put those judgments aside and be very open minded

Carrie-Ann Wade:

about the conversations that you're having with people, what

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you're hearing and and the potential actions you might need

Carrie-Ann Wade:

to take that yeah, it was a really important point that you

Carrie-Ann Wade:

made there Lee around the judgement.

Lee Griffith:

I think that was one of my biggest learning areas

Lee Griffith:

as a leader as I was going up for my kind of career ladder. It

Lee Griffith:

was about that judgement. Because I was using my

Lee Griffith:

experience and my context, which was someone who's very driven,

Lee Griffith:

very focused, completer finisher wants to get stuff done,

Lee Griffith:

obviously then progressed at quite a young age to quite a

Lee Griffith:

senior position, and then had junior members of staff and I

Lee Griffith:

would sometimes have that view of I've done your job I

Lee Griffith:

understand it and therefore I poo pooed almost sometimes when

Lee Griffith:

they couldn't do something or and I don't just mean that from

Lee Griffith:

a skill set if they were generally didn't want to make a

Lee Griffith:

phone call or something because or couldn't connect with someone

Lee Griffith:

and I and I did that and so I had to learn that lesson around

Lee Griffith:

putting myself or putting them in my shoes. I needed to turn it

Lee Griffith:

the other way around.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Absolutely. It's something I've had quite a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

lot of conversations about throughout my both my management

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and my leadership career, I would say around also the sort

Carrie-Ann Wade:

of expectations that you have of your own self can't always be

Carrie-Ann Wade:

the expectations that you have of other people because other

Carrie-Ann Wade:

people, as you say have very different drivers, very

Carrie-Ann Wade:

different experiences. And just because something might make me

Carrie-Ann Wade:

really driven in the workplace doesn't mean that that's what's

Carrie-Ann Wade:

what's driving and motivating someone else. So again, I think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that's another way as a leader that you really need to sort of

Carrie-Ann Wade:

demonstrate and act on your emotional intelligence by habit

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that kind of insight into the way that other people operate as

Carrie-Ann Wade:

well as the way that you that you operate yourself. So that's

Carrie-Ann Wade:

a good segway Lee, we're starting now to talk about other

Carrie-Ann Wade:

people and how we're supporting other people as leaders. But I

Carrie-Ann Wade:

guess my question to you is and I'm not entirely convinced

Carrie-Ann Wade:

there's a one size fits all answer here and we're going to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

get this right but how is leaders can we start to think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

about building emotionally intelligent teams and how can we

Carrie-Ann Wade:

potentially I guess, actively start recruiting for emotional

Carrie-Ann Wade:

intelligence?

Lee Griffith:

It's an interesting one. And I think if

Lee Griffith:

I if I tackle the first part of it, I think it goes back to that

Lee Griffith:

previous point around the standard that you set so you

Lee Griffith:

build your team, only to be emotionally intelligent if

Lee Griffith:

you're showing that yourself. But I think and it goes back to

Lee Griffith:

one of our previous episodes, where we were talking about

Lee Griffith:

strengths becoming weaknesses or superpowers can become your

Lee Griffith:

weakness and I think the same is said of emotional intelligence.

Lee Griffith:

So if you overuse one type of EQ, then that can become a

Lee Griffith:

weakness. So if you overemphasise for someone, you

Lee Griffith:

might not take the tough calls and needed in the team, for

Lee Griffith:

example. So you've got to find a balance and that's a really

Lee Griffith:

important skill to demonstrate in your team, I would say and I

Lee Griffith:

think the other thing for leaders these days is to make

Lee Griffith:

sure that they're seeking that feedback and receiving honest

Lee Griffith:

feedback. And so that isn't about just genuinely how things

Lee Griffith:

are going but that feedback that can help them understand their

Lee Griffith:

impact as a leader, including their emotional intelligence,

Lee Griffith:

and I've seen this work really well in organisations where they

Lee Griffith:

might have, I don't know a CEO advisory group or something like

Lee Griffith:

that, where they'll get a really small number of people together,

Lee Griffith:

who just tells it like it is and how it's feeling for people and

Lee Griffith:

and that can then give you as a leader quite a bit of

Lee Griffith:

reflection, and it's a different voice to perhaps the ones that

Lee Griffith:

you're surrounding yourself with every day.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I really like that actually. And it's funny

Carrie-Ann Wade:

you should mention that in terms of seeking feedback because I

Carrie-Ann Wade:

think there is something for me about how you work with your

Carrie-Ann Wade:

team or your teams or your wider organisation about understanding

Carrie-Ann Wade:

what it feels like and I think that's what we're talking about

Carrie-Ann Wade:

here, isn't it? What does it feel like to be part of this

Carrie-Ann Wade:

team? What does it feel like to be part of this organisation?

Carrie-Ann Wade:

And actually, if what you're hearing back is that, it doesn't

Carrie-Ann Wade:

actually feel that great, then you move on to like, what do we

Carrie-Ann Wade:

need to do? What do we need to act on? To make that positive

Carrie-Ann Wade:

impact and make the change. So for me, I think yeah, that's a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

really important point that you make. And I think there is

Carrie-Ann Wade:

something for me and I don't think this is the be all and the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

end all. But I do think that when I have worked with teams

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and in organisations that I would consider to have a fairly

Carrie-Ann Wade:

high EQ, that they have generally tended to be in places

Carrie-Ann Wade:

where the recruitment processes have been very much more values

Carrie-Ann Wade:

based, rather than skills based. And I think that does have an

Carrie-Ann Wade:

impact on how you start to build and recruit for emotionally

Carrie-Ann Wade:

intelligent teams because you are testing and asking people to

Carrie-Ann Wade:

demonstrate something quite different if you go through a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

values based recruitment process, thanif you're going

Carrie-Ann Wade:

through a process, but you have to demonstrate you're the best

Carrie-Ann Wade:

accountant or the best, whatever. So, for me, I think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

that that could be one opportunity to start to think

Carrie-Ann Wade:

differently about how you recruit into teams.

Lee Griffith:

I think that that goes back to that point around

Lee Griffith:

EQ and IQ and absolutely plays in on the recruitment process

Lee Griffith:

because I think EQ Trumps IQ when you're recruiting so I

Lee Griffith:

completely agree.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

I love that I feel like that's gonna be the

Carrie-Ann Wade:

quote of the episode EQ trumps IQ 100% agree with you. So I

Carrie-Ann Wade:

feel like we could probably talk about this topic for much

Carrie-Ann Wade:

longer, but I'm conscious of people's time listening to us

Carrie-Ann Wade:

and so I'm just gonna try to round us up with some top tips

Carrie-Ann Wade:

as we always like to to share those top tips and how tos so

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Lee, what would your how to be?

Lee Griffith:

I would say my number one thing would be

Lee Griffith:

remembered that you set the standard as a leader, you're the

Lee Griffith:

person who holds the power, your juniors are not going to be open

Lee Griffith:

and share their feelings if you don't go there first. So I think

Lee Griffith:

for me that's the top takeaway could also make a recommendation

Lee Griffith:

because I just finished a book I was reading, absolutely love

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Go for it.

Lee Griffith:

And it's called Connect by David Bradford and

Lee Griffith:

Carol Robin, and it's about building exceptional

Lee Griffith:

relationships with people, but they're completely bringing

Lee Griffith:

together emotional intelligence and the IQ part of as well so

Lee Griffith:

much around interpersonal dynamics in this book, lots of

Lee Griffith:

different scenarios and case studies that you could work

Lee Griffith:

through as a leader and some really great self reflection

Lee Griffith:

questions in there. I've got like 100 pages turned down with

Lee Griffith:

this book here. So it just struck me so I will put it in

Lee Griffith:

the show notes, but I just wanted to give that book a shout

Lee Griffith:

out.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Brilliant. I love the top tip that's also a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

recommendation. So thank you so much, Lee, and as always, don't

Carrie-Ann Wade:

disagree with your top tips. I guess for me, I would just maybe

Carrie-Ann Wade:

add in there something around taking the time to reflect and

Carrie-Ann Wade:

understand your own perspective, your own reactions to certain

Carrie-Ann Wade:

things, possibly even some of your triggers, so that you can

Carrie-Ann Wade:

be more aware of how you might manage some of that as a leader

Carrie-Ann Wade:

in the workplace. And I definitely think just being

Carrie-Ann Wade:

aware of that judgement piece once you said that that really

Carrie-Ann Wade:

resonated with me. So really trying to try your absolute best

Carrie-Ann Wade:

to be as non judgmental as possible in that space as a

Carrie-Ann Wade:

leader I think is really important if you want to build

Carrie-Ann Wade:

those relationships

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Thanks again for listening to today's episode.

Lee Griffith:

Don't forget to hit subscribe, so you're the

Lee Griffith:

first to receive new episodes when they drop every Thursday.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

If you enjoyed the show, we'd love it if you

Carrie-Ann Wade:

would rate it or leave a review

Lee Griffith:

and let us know your thoughts and own experiences.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Get in touch with either of us on LinkedIn,

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Twitter, or Instagram

Lee Griffith:

or use the hashtag how to take the lead.

Carrie-Ann Wade:

Until next week, get out there. And take