“I think women are allowed to fail.” - Nicky Nicky Denson-Elliott

This episode is going to change your entire perspective on failure, confidence, and maybe whether or not you should finally launch that podcast… meet Nicky Denson-Elliott - host of award winning podcast, Women’s Business. This episode is one to really sit back and drink in all the knowledge and inspiration she brings to this episode of JMTBP (in absolute bucket loads). Nicky is a well-established and much loved member of the decibelle Creative family and editing her conversations is definitely a highlight of our production schedule! Not normally one for waffle she puts in a solid shift and humours us for a good hour or so, and we’re so grateful because the result is a rich, funny, nuanced and sparky conversation about podcasting, creativity, success, feminism, failure, confidence and - surprise surprise - *v i s i b i l i t y*.

STRAP IN.

Most people who launch a business podcast do so to help promote an already existing business. But for Nicky it happened the other way around: launching Women’s Business led her to starting an entire business and community that wouldn’t exist without it. Nicky is a self-described professional feminist, founder, writer and creator of The Wilder Collective, a community for female founders. She also happens to be someone who gets an idea, and despite no idea how to do it (yet)... will proceed to make it happen anyway (if it’s the ‘right’ idea, that is - she tells us how to weed out the dross and identify the idea that sticks).

In this episode you’ll hear:

• Why Nicky wants more female founders’ stories to be heard
• How Nicky’s podcast became the foundation of an entre business
• Why success doesn’t always have to be measured financially
• Nicky’s failure reframe: failure is just data (and why failure is a feminist issue)
• That confidence isn’t a personality type: how to turn up the dials on your “confidence dashboard” (and in particular the confidence dials to twiddle if we want to start a podcast)
• Taking your idea seriously
• How Nicky approaches interviewing
• How to monetise a podcast without waiting for a giant brand to magically discover you
• How podcast sponsorship has become part of Nicky’s wider business model
• The ideas that disappear vs. the ones that stick
• Waffle.

If you take one thing away from this chat let it be Nicky’s refusal to treat the things that haven’t worked as evidence that she shouldn’t have bothered trying. You don't need to know exactly where your idea is going or that it will be “successful”, you just have to back yourself and take it seriously enough to get the data from trying.

Enjoy!

Buckers & Katie x

Nicky Denson-Elliott

Nicky Denson-Elliott is a podcaster, writer, founder and self-described professional feminist. She is the host of the award-winning podcast Women’s Business, where she speaks to women about their careers, businesses and the realities behind building them.

The conversations she began through the podcast ultimately led Nicky to create her paid community for feminist founders, The Wilder Collective as well as live networking events and Wilder Live. Her work also includes writing on feminist issues and her ongoing Confidence Project, exploring the different factors that shape women’s confidence.

You can find Nicky via her website and Instagram, and you should definitely listen to her award winning podcast Women’s Business (Buckers recommends making a beeline for episode #95: Good Girl Economics Explored: Pricing, Perceptions and Profit for female founders, which features research co-author, Leila Ainge).

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Now… let’s just make the bloody podcast, shall we?

>> Buckers: Well, hello to you and welcome back to Just make

the Bloody Podcast. Thank you for gracing us with

your presence for another episode. This week we

are chatting to a well established and well loved

member of the Decibelle Creative family. We have

got a treat for you in the shape of Nicky Denson

Elliott, who, who is the host of award winning

podcast Women's Business, which sadly, I can't

take any credit for the conception of because she

was already up and running with this podcast

before we met. but she now outsources the editing

of her podcast to yours truly, which is something

she can afford to do since being able to monetise

it, which is something that we chat about in this

episode. So if podcast sponsorship is something

that you would like to learn a little bit more of,

you're curious to know how do you actually make

money from your podcast? Nicky is the one for you.

And we will get to that later on in today's

episode. Nicky is a writer, a content creator, a

professional feminist job title that we love.

She's also the founder of the Wilder Collective,

which is a paid community for female founders,

feminist female founders actually. And she is just

one of those women who really, champions other

women, other women in business. You don't have to

spend a lot of time around Nicky to feel like you

really want to pull your socks up, Pull your

feminist socks up and get to work. So I'm really,

really grateful that Nicky agreed to come on the

podcast and share with us her podcasting voyage.

Nicky's podcast is, is a brilliant one to listen

to. I mean, just for listening sake. From a

content perspective, it's bloody fabulous. She

gets brilliant guests on women with super

fascinating businesses and careers. I really

cannot recommend it enough. There is a lot to be

learned from her guest interviews, all about the

world of work and running a business. And, they're

not all the same storey as well. Nicky's guests

really sort of prove, prove there's no one size

fits all formula to running a business. So

definitely give it a listen if you need a little

slice of inspiration and oomph, in your business.

But it's also just a great podcast to listen to

from the podcast host's seat, if you like. Nicky's

episodes are such a masterclass in interviewing.

She really does listen to her guests and she

really listens from the perspective of the

listener, from our perspective. And the reason I

say this is because her, her guests will often

finish a response to one of her questions. Get to

the end of a storey and Nicky will kind of pick up

where they've left off, where they've left a

little bit of a, a gap in the storey that leaves

us wanting more. So rather than just, you know,

abandoning a really brilliant conversation topic

to press on with whatever the next question she's

got written in a notebook, she will really dig

deeper. and, you know, when I often when I'm

editing Nicky's episodes, I'll find myself

listening to the guest and thinking, that's really

interesting. But I wonder where, you know, I

wonder where you got the money for that from. How

did you, how did you pay for that? And then Nicky

will, nine times out of ten, chime in with, okay,

that's cool. So how did you actually fund that?

You know, did you get investors or did you use

your life savings? And that's something as well

that we talk about in today's conversation is

knowing when to pull a bit more on a

conversational thread and take the conversation

somewhere you didn't necessarily anticipate it

going. as opposed to moving on with whatever your

next planned question was. Rather than me telling

you all the brilliant things that we talk about in

the chat, shall I just play you the chat? Because

it really is an absolute gold mine of wisdom and

knowledge for the budding podcaster. Nicky is

exactly the type of person I imagine myself

working with when I started Decibelle Creative.

She is. She's sharp, she's quick witted, she's

bold, she's funny. Her dry sense of humour is a

right up my alley. I mean, she's just, overall,

she's pretty magnetic. and she's also the type of

person who actually arrives on time for her

podcast recordings. Because I joined the studio to

find Nicky already poised in position, ready and

waiting to go. I cannot wait for you to meet her.

So let us proceed in true. Just make the bloody

podcast fashion. Let us roll the banjos. It's time

to meet Nicky Denson. Elliot,

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: It's really weird, like, hearing your voice

attached to your face and body because I feel like

I hear your voice through my WhatsApp. Do you know

what I mean?

>> Buckers: Yeah, it's the same for me. I'm used to connecting

your voice with like a wavy line.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Ye. It's nice to make the connection.

>> Buckers: It's nice to put voices to faces. Even though

obviously we have done that before.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: We do know each other. Yeah. Now, are you already

recording me? Because I listen to Alison's

podcast.

>> Buckers: It's a trap. I'm doing it to everyone. Yeah. My

Riverside is just set to Start recording as soon

as anyone enters the waiting room. Does that put

you on edge?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: No, not at all. But it was really funny because

Alison sent me a voice note and was like, I've

just recorded with buckers. And she asked me a

question, and I was like, like, we'll talk about

that when we talk about it. And then she was like,

wait, are we talking about it?

>> Buckers: Yeah, I, I learned, I learned then that you have

to actually tell people when you've started.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah. Am I okay, sound wise? I'm just on my little

lapel mic today.

>> Buckers: That is nice. Is that magnetic?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: It is. It's a set of two. Ooh, yeah.

>> Buckers: Where's that from?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Well, I mean, it's from Amazon, but I have seen a

few people with it. The brand is Hollyland, and I

have to say, it is pretty good. I bought them to

record, little, like, voice notes for my private

podcast. But actually, I use them quite a lot

because I think the sound is just as good as my,

>> Buckers: Mikey, Mike, here comes Katie.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Hello.

>> Buckers: Oh, look at those curls.

>> Katie: Sorry about that. Having technical issues

>> Buckers: Nicky just told us that she listened to the Alison

Perry episode. So this is. I think this might be

the first time that we've had a guest who's

actually heard, an episode. Any initial feedback

for us, Nikki?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Oh, yeah. There's loads of room for improvement,

guys.

>> Buckers: You could be brutal. Go on, give it. Give it to us

hard.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: No, I'm, I, I, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the.

Listen, I think I've said to you separately,

Bakkers, that you have a very specific way. I

think it lends itself well to podcasting.

>> Buckers: Thank you.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: And it's kind of conversational and chatty and,

dare I say, a little bit waffly. But I don't say

that negatively. That.

>> Buckers: I mean, I don't know how. I don't know how I'm

ever gonna strip out the waffle, to be honest. We

might just have to.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Buckers: Bring maple syrup, because you're gonna.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, you know my podcasting

style well, and I'm, as a podcaster, allergic to

waffle in terms of. I try not to waffle, but I

think that's because if I did, I would be faking

the waffle, Whereas for you, it's baked in. So I

think it's okay.

>> Buckers: Waffle is in my DNA, whereas you are laser,

focused. Direct.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, can't hear that.

>> Buckers: But without being cold. You know, like, I really

love. I mean, I've. I've actually got a

spreadsheet That's a testimonial I've used to plan

this episode.

>> Buckers: Great.

>> Buckers: When I say plan, I've. I've brain dumped a load of

questions and then sort of like loosely grouped

them. But one of the headings is podcast format

and your interview style. So we'll come. We'll

come to it.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Great. Let's talk about that when we talk about

it.

>> Buckers: Let's talk about it when we talk about it. Call

back. I, probably am going to use some stuff that

we've already done, but shall I just say for the

sake of it now. Now it's actually it.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: It's happening, mate. I just. I'm gonna listen in,

like nervous excitement of like, what made it in.

Where did we begin? Probably not the whole mic

chat.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: But, maybe some of my, critical thinking around

your waffle. People may hate me immediately, but

hey, let's go for it.

>> Buckers: Note to self, don't put the mic chat in. Got it.

so. So welcome. Welcome to just make the bloody

podcast.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Thank you so much for having me.

>> Buckers: I've, I've. My earrings that I've worn today are

especially for you because they say, fuck the

patriarchy.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Oh, I love that. So that's a little.

>> Buckers: That's a little nod.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I thought you were going to say I've worn earrings

that really loudly clank against my microphone.

Because you and I have had that

>> Buckers: experience many, many times. Many times.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I like the earrings and I like the fact that

they're pinned neatly to your head and not clunky.

>> Buckers: That's the problem is wearing headphones all the

time.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah.

>> Buckers: If I want to actually make a statement, I've got

to wear full on pat butchers.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: which I think would be fine.

>> Buckers: Yeah, I'm on board with that.

>> Buckers: I mean, I'm not opposed to it, but I am starting

to find now

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: that my lobes are, ah, Feeling the effects of

gravity.

>> Buckers: Gravity. Gravity is. Is really kind of. We're

swinging low with the lobe. See, we're waffling

already. Okay. No being direct for Nicky Okay. So,

Nicky you are the host of a podcast called Women's

Business.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I, am.

>> Buckers: Which is a phenomenal award winning podcast. And

you chat to women about their careers, which is

very often businesses and brands that they've

developed, but not always. Sometimes it's job

jobs.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Very occasionally it's job jobs. We had a recent

job job, didn't we? But mostly it's founders.

Yeah.

>> Buckers: And you're a professional feminist.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: That's what I say is.

>> Buckers: I mean It's. It's what you are. You've built a

community for female founders. Tell us a little

bit about. Yeah, tell us a little bit about your

work kind of outside of your podcast first, and

give us a little, amuse boosh.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: So I will do that, but I will say that the podcast

is actually kind of what led to, like, the work

that I do that are my main revenue streams. So

it's interesting, yes. Because my background is

events. I worked in events for about 15 years. I

had my kids. And when I was on my second maternity

leave during COVID and lockdown trigger warning, I

was like, I'm not going back to that commute and

that job. Yeah. And I started a unisex kids

clothing brand, which was totally natural thing to

do for someone with no experience in that world at

all. And I did that for a couple of years and then

I wound that up and decided to start the podcast,

basically because in doing that I had met all

these amazing women who were running their own

businesses. And that's not a person, by the way.

My door is opening behind me in the wind. So I, I

was doing that. I met all these women, sorry,

doing that in the cracks of their day, like, often

around kids. And I was like, these are amazing

people and they're amazing founders who happen to

be women and they're making it all work and I

think we should hear more of their storeys. And

everyone was listening to Diary of a CEO, before

it went like, fully mental and, like, quacky, when

it was genuinely founders. And I was like, where?

Like, yeah, there was the odd female, but I was

like, where are the fe voices in this? Like, yeah,

they represent a huge portion of entrepreneurs.

They really contribute to the economy. and their

storeys are really relatable and I think women

should be hearing them. So I started my podcast

and it was off the back of that that I started

having really great conversations with my

followers and with my listeners. And one day I was

like, shall we all get together in a room in

London? Like, I'll host a networking and we can

just all chat. Because I'm getting to have all

these great chats, one to one. Yes, with the

guests, but also with the listeners. And if you

could all talk to each, amazing things would

happen. So we had a networking. Amazing things did

happen. They were like, that was great. The energy

was great. We're all great. Can we all have access

to each other? And that was when I started my paid

community for feminist founders. It's a safe Space

online. It's hosted on a specific platform, there

is no algorithm. Whatever you post gets seen. And

it's really just a safe place to share, you know,

the wins but also the hard things and also the in

between things like who fancies who in off campus

and, will any of us ever get over Kevin Costner?

And you know, also, my kid won't sleep or, you

know, why are people dicks? Like, it's just a very

safe place to share everything. But also, you

know, how should I price this thing? Or how should

I respond to this email or what do you think of

this new idea? It's all, it's all things to all

people. And, that is the sort of main tranche of

my business. The podcast does get some revenue

through sponsorship and I also get paid to be an

Adobe ambassador and then occasionally I get paid

to do writing, feminist writing, for the likes of

Stylist and Grazia and I paper. And I love doing

that. I'd love to do more of that.

>> Buckers: Yeah, I didn't know that, like a really common

thing is that people have a business and they're

like, oh, I need to do some marketing for my

business. I'll do a podcast. It's phenomenal that

for you it was the other way around. Because what

I really am, excited about and passionate about is

showing people the unexpected things that can

happen as a result of having a podcast. But that's

like, like not even a incidental thing. It's like

a whole, a whole career path and new business and

community of support for people who need. It has

been born out of these conversations that you've

been having with people.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, 100. And I think that's why when you said,

you know, I'm going to make this podcast and these

are the things I'll be talking about, I was like,

yes, because I wouldn't have my business without

my podcast. Some people start a podcast after the

business and you're right, it is a marketing

channel. It brings new people to them and it's a,

and it's sort of increases their funnel. But for

me it, it's, it's the whole funnel, or it

certainly was to begin with. Yeah. And I, started

it with no income and with doing bits and bobs of

like, social media management for other people.

And I really always want to normalise, like, not

knowing what something is going to be and things

taking time because, you know, I'm three years

into my podcast now and I do have an actual sort

of like, take home Income and my business is

profitable. M. but it took a few years to get

there of scrabbling, and I think that's really,

really normal. But people don't talk about that

enough. and I remember not long after I started

the podcast, I was chatting to a friend and I was

like, oh, have you got any contacts? You know, I

think I need sponsors and blah, blah. And he was

like, oh, his podcast not paying the bills, babe.

And I was like, no, it's not, but it is now. And I

could out earn you, mate, if. Because I'm playing

a long game and that is great. And I encourage

everyone to do that.

>> Buckers: And also, there is still immense value in having a

podcast, even if it's not earning an income. It

might not be earning a direct income, but that

doesn't mean that it won't. And also off.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, well, exactly. There is that, yes. But, you

know, people are indoctrinated into a kind of

employee mindset and a capitalist mindset of like,

do thing, get money for thing. And I'm like, yes,

ultimately that has to be the goal in a capitalist

society. But if you have the privilege of being

able to spend a little bit of time building it up,

which I did have, and I acknowledge that

privilege, then don't be afraid of that bit. It is

hard. It was hard being, amongst my friends at the

time, all in our late 30s, been in our careers for

20 years, and everyone's earnings going like that,

and mine went back to absolute zero. I had to

question what does success look like to me?

Because I can't measure it financially now, so I

had to measure it in other ways. And I measured it

around flexibility, around my kids, and I measured

it around freedom and fun and creativity and joy.

And I feel incredibly successful against all of

those metrics. Yeah.

>> Buckers: Oh, I had a really good question and it's just

gone out of my head. it'll come back to me. Oh,

that's. That's what I wanted to ask. Okay. So

you've always struck me as somebody who wants.

When you have an idea and you know it's a great

idea, you want to go and you want to get on with

it. But that is kind of a bit of a juxtaposition

alongside this, having to sit in the uncertainty

of what something is going to become and how long

it's going to take. How did you stick with that?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, that's a good.

>> Buckers: Have you had to do that before?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: That's a good question. And I think that is

something that I've had to acknowledge and get

better at having tonnes of ideas, which is the

entrepreneur's curse, and not going with every

single one of them, but sitting with every single

one of them and then going with the ones that

won't go away. So there are ideas that you have

and you're like, that would be a great thing to

do. And it kind of pings and bubbles up to the

surface and you could immediately start work on

that and get excited, but then it will die down.

The ideas that won't go away are the ones that I

focus on and then I do go, how do I make this

happen? And there are loads of things I don't

know, so who knows those things that I don't know

that I could work with on this, and what do I

bring to it, and what do I know that they don't

know? And how do we make this thing all happen?

And I think, you know, our mutual friend Alison

said to me a few weeks ago, she was like, you know

what I love about you, Nikki? Which is a great way

to start a sentence. Yeah.

>> Buckers: Oh, please, do tell.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, I was like, no, say more.

>> Buckers: Cancel all plans.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: lean in. She said, you know, you, like, didn't

know how to start a podcast, or you started one

and you didn't know how to make a documentary, but

you decided to make one and you didn't know there

was a third one. Something else. I'd never fucking

knew how to do something else. Brilliant about me.

And, I was like, yeah, I guess I do do that. But I

don't consider that to be particular, particularly

impressive about me. It can be a real annoying

thing because my husband will be like, oh, you got

another idea, have you? Like. And that's that

thing of, like, getting used to being able to sit

with everything. But I think when I see

opportunities and they're like an, open goal, I'm

like, what? Why would I not do that? What? Because

it might be hard or it might be sticky or

challenging.

>> Buckers: Yeah, I don't know all of the parts of it yet.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah. Like, if I want it enough, I'll just try.

And I've got a very specific mindset around

failure, which is that failure ultimately is a

construct, because failing is just data, you know,

if you can afford for it to be data, it's just

data and information. And so I feel like I can try

things and they may not work out how I thought,

they may not work out at all, but I will learn

something regardless. And so I don't fear failure

in that context, and I think that's helpful.

>> Buckers: Have you always been like that?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: No, I don't think so. No. I think I've learned so

much on the job. Like, I've learned so much doing

this podcast, running my community, talking to the

people I talk to. I consider it an enormous

privilege and I love having my podcast and having

those conversations and I think they've really

enriched and changed my life, honestly. And I

think that relationship with failure, because I

have had failures in inverted commas, you know,

my. My clothing business was not viable

financially, so I had to shut it down. But what

did I take from it? Well, I'd basically done an

mba. You know, it was like. It was like the

equivalent of that and it cost the equivalent. But

that's how I wrote off that huge amount of money

that I had invested out of my personal savings. It

made me all these incredible friends, these

incredible connections, these women who ended up

joining my community, who ended up coming on the

podcast, listening to the podcast and then down

the line, podcast wins an award and gets long

listed for the British Podcast Awards. And yeah,

you know, gets these amazing guests on it and. And

is like the central thing to my life now. Like,

that's not a failure.

>> Buckers: Yeah, it may. It essentially just made it a

checkpoint on your journey as opposed to the final

destination or now I'm here, now this is the thing

that is going to be the successful thing. It was a

checkpoint and you just kind of stopped there for

a while, filled up your bag of skills and then you

were on your way again.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah. And I think, sorry, just to really labour

this point as a feminist, labour away. I think

that failure, as is part. Is a feminist issue.

Right. Because it's part of this thing that women

have about visibility and people pleasing. There

is a fear of visibility for women because we have

been shown, and are shown constantly that

visibility is genuinely risky for women. Like, we

get torn down in the press and there is no

redemption narrative for women and it's hard. And

on top of that, we're people pleasers and so we

don't want to be seen failing because we want to

fit neatly into a box and we want to be palatable

and likeable, as our mutual friend Sophie Lee

talks about. and I'm just not subscribing to that.

I think that holds women back. I think women are

allowed to fail and try and get data and are

allowed to be visible. They're not going to get

permission from anyone else. They literally just

have to sort of see the light and realise that

everything is available to them and the only thing

holding them back is them. And then, you know, the

blinkers come off and, like, you get your

pitchfork and start the revolution. Who's with me?

>> Buckers: Sign me up.

>> Buckers: I actually wanted to talk about confidence and

visibility because I know that you have again,

like. Like Alison was telling us she's done a lot

of, kind of quite intentional and very public

facing work around confidence. I think that's a

important distinction to make. Can you tell us a

bit about your work with the Confidence Project

and kind of how you see confidence fitting into

podcasting and podcasting for women who have that

kind of fear around visibility and consistent

visibility?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, I mean, I think there's several sort of

tranches to this. One is, when I started my

podcast, there's a woman that I know, she said to

me, you know, I really like your podcast, but what

made you think anyone would listen? And that was

all of her,

>> Buckers: odd thing to say to someone.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah. And she wasn't saying it unkindly, but it

spoke a lot of her conditioning and her self.

Doubt. Right. About what I was allowed to do, I

think. And I was like, I actually didn't know if

anyone would listen, but I back myself. I thought

that I could do a good job. And I also really

wanted to. Like, I'm a sort of frustrated TV

presenter, I think, from my youth. I think there

is that, like, bit of me, and I thought that it

would allow me to explore that part of my

personality which I hadn't been able to explore

before. So I. So again, it was a bit like, I

didn't, but I tried it anyway. Like, what are you

so afraid of? and I think I started the Confidence

project this year, 2026, because last year I did a

research project with our other mutual friend,

Leila. We have so many friends, so many friends.

We know people.

>> Buckers: Okay.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: and that was another instance of, like, I don't

know how to do a research project that's, like,

properly researched and properly done and what

numbers we need and how we run it and all the

confidentiality and stuff. So I went to someone

brilliant like Leila and said, do know this stuff.

I've got the community who will answer the

questions. I've got the community who'll read the

research. Let's do it together. Sidebar. But out

of that research, there was a whole thing around

women saying they were thriving. And the women who

said they were thriving were the ones who also

scored most highly on, like, burnout, basically,

and the ones who were exhausting themselves. And I

was like, at, what cost are you thriving? And

there was a whole thing about money. And money

ended up being a massive chunk of the research

because of women's issues around pricing and

pricing confidence. And I started talking a lot

about pricing then, and that kind of evolved into

the confidence project, where I was like, for

every month of 2026, I'm going to explore a

different thread of confidence because a lot of

people say to me, you're such a confident person,

and that is such a massive lull. A, I don't always

feel confident, and B, confidence is not a

personality type. No, there is no such thing as a

confident person.

>> Buckers: It's like a state, isn't it?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, it's a state. It's, it's. You could consider

it an emotion. And it's always context specific

because I've been interviewed on lots of podcasts.

So do I feel relaxed and confident now? Yes, but I

don't like public speaking. So put me on a stage.

I don't feel confident that my body can even get

me through it. So there's very specific, like,

confidence context. And what I've my hypothesis

off the back of doing the confidence project is

that basically confidence is a dashboard and it's

got all these dials on it, and you can turn each

dial to optimal. And that's what I've been trying

to do through looking at embodied confidence and

dressing confidence and creative confidence and

boundary confidence, all these different areas of

it over these 12 months. What can I do to optimise

the dial on how I dress and how that makes me

feel? By the way, this is not about how people

perceive you. And what if they think that you look

okay or not? But if you walk into a room and

feeling good, they will perceive that about you.

And that's an energetic thing. And I didn't want

to ignore any of those areas that maybe felt

fripperous or unimportant because women's

confidence is very, very low and can be very, very

low in these circumstances. And so I think for me,

I think about my own confidence dashboard and I

think about what can I do to. To get those dials

to optimal. And it's always about optimising. It's

never going to be perfect. But if you've got

those, like, tools in your toolkit, you know, you

can help yourself. And it might be having a really

good night's sleep, and it might be doing the

exercise you need to do to keep your brain on

track, and it might be being hydrated and taking

your medication, like, whatever it is, they don't

always have to relate to the actual confidence

thing, but they help you optimise. And I think I'm

really passionate about helping women do that.

>> Buckers: Oh, I love a visual. And that, that makes me think

of, like, a spaceship. Like, I'm in a spaceship.

And I got this, like, confidence dashboard. And

having all of those dials at Optimum is gonna help

me, you know, zoom through space. If we were then

thinking putting this kind of through the lens of

podcasting, and then I guess the wider aspect, of

that visibility, which dial, or maybe there's

multiple in the confidence dashboard, would you

attribute podcasting to? So which. Probably all of

our dials are a little bit all over the place.

Which ones do you think we need to focus on

twiddling upwards to. To have the confidence to,

to launch a podcast? And how might someone do

that?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: That's a great question. I think the number one

is, is creative confidence. And I think people

hear about the word creative and they're like, but

I'm not a creative everyone. Creativity is innate.

It's a human trait. And so you might not be a,

creative in terms of, like, an artist, but if you

run a business, if you exist, like, sorry, you're,

you're, you're creative. It's, it's. You can't,

deny that. And so when I talk about creative

confidence, I'm talking about confidence in what

you create. And I think if you're thinking of

starting a podcast, you want to have real

confidence in the idea, in the creative behind the

idea. So what do you want to talk about? How do

you want to exercise that? You know, what is your

specific podcasting voice and tone and all of that

stuff? And be clear on that, because you and I

both know a lot of people start podcasts. And I

always say about podcasting, anyone can start a

podcast, but that doesn't mean that everyone

should. Sorry, that. That's a controversial take.

And I think by that I mean when I started my

podcast, I didn't know that anyone would listen,

but I took it seriously as a project. I wanted it

to sound good, as good as it could. Of course,

it's improved. I wanted to do a good job of

hosting it from the off, you know, and I wanted

decent music, and I knew what I wanted the intro

to sound like. I paid attention to it as a

project. I wasn't like, I'll just chuck this out

there. And I would advise anyone else to do the

same, because I think taking Your project

seriously matters.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: So I think that creative confidence of, like,

being really clear on the idea helps you. I'm just

going to close my window because the door's

blowing so much.

>> Buckers: Okay.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Oh, can you wedge it? Thank you. Sorry. Just

talking to my husband's dismembered head there.

>> Buckers: Hope he's all right.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, well, he was just like, I'll wedge the door.

And I think the other dial is embodied confidence.

And I don't mean body. I mean the connection

between your mind and body and how you feel in

yourself. Because when you are podcasting, you've

got to sit and hold a conversation with someone,

and you've got to be confident in your ability to

hold that conversation and have that conversation.

And you've got to really connect mind and body.

And I think we live in a world where we disconnect

the two and we say, I don't trust my body, but you

are your body. There is no. Your mind is your

body, and vice versa. Like, it's all one thing.

And I think it's really easy in this day and age

to forget that. And so I think when you're going

into podcasting, you want to feel peaceful and at

ease in your whole body, in your ability to do the

thing that you're sitting there to do, and, and

then just enjoy doing it. So I think. I think

those are the places I would start with. With your

confidence.

>> Buckers: Oh, I love it. We have to do something. Can we do

something with that? Katie? Confidence Cockpit,

anyone?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I know, but it's got the word in it, which is a

bit gutting.

>> Buckers: Can we make. Can we make out of that? That really

resonates, especially the first bit if I'm

thinking about my own creativity dial. I tried. I

have tried several times over the last few years

to launch a podcast because I am a podcast

producer who's gonna take me seriously if I'm a

podcast producer without a podcast. And that was

the thing that was driving it. My. My motivation

for wanting to launch a podcast was coming from a

place of pleasing others and, verifying my

credibility to others. And so I was. That was what

was driving the, the concept and the format and

what it was going to be like and how I was going

to do it and what voice I was going to have. And

it was all coming from this place of needing to

show people that I can do the job that I say I

can, even though I already knew that people

believed me because I had clients that were paying

me to make podcasts for them. But I still felt

like there's this, like, external invis. Presence

that doesn't believe in me, and I need to prove

myself to them. And that's where this kind of,

almost like, urgency of having a podcast to tick a

box, to be able to get away with saying what I say

I can do, even though I prove it every day. And so

guess what? I didn't do it. Because none of those

ideas that were coming from that place were good.

They were all bland. It was all like, ah.

>> Buckers: Oh.

>> Buckers: So I need to make a podcast and say, episode one

will be like, what microphone should you get? And

episode two will be like, how to design your

artwork. Ugh. We can get that on chat GPT in 20

seconds. So, the second that the idea. Little seed

for what just make the bloody podcast. Is landed

in my brain, I want to do a podcast where I lean

into the uncertainty and I lean into the kind of

reluctance to say an expert, because what if, you

know, there's still so much I don't know. And,

it's an industry that's changing all the time. So

what if I were to lean into the experience of

wanting to start a podcast but, like, you know,

scratching around in the dirt a bit to try and

find, like, the idea and try and find the voice

and the style? And as soon as that implanted

itself within me, it became so much more about my

own, my own idea, my m. Own voice, and doing it

for my own reason and doing it as a way to, you

know, if I do it in this way, I'm kind of really

in the open demonstrating what it's like to start

something new. and that, I think, in itself turned

up my creative confidence dial, because I believed

in my idea and it feel. And it felt authentic to

me. And. And that's when I made it happen, like,

three years after the initial writing on the to do

list of do a podcast, you idiot. You know, hurry

up and get one out, because people will be

expecting this, like, pressure, pressure,

pressure.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah.

>> Buckers: As soon as it changed, I was like, oh, I'm gonna

design my artwork. And I. And everything kind of

like, just slotted in really naturally.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I think that's a really good North Star for people

as well, because like I said, like, anyone can

start a podcast, but don't start it. If you don't

really know you're saying, don't start it because

you've listened to this and gone, oh, my God, I. I

need to start a bloody podcast. Like, this is.

Just make the bloody podcast and for me, the

essence of that is if you've got the idea, stop

fearing, you know, the visibility and all of that.

But the idea is, is the thing. And you did the

right thing in not just starting it for the sake

of it.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: You had an idea that you really wanted to. To do

and do well and, and you did it. And I think, you

know, while you were talking there, the other, the

other sort of confidence dial that I would want

people to address in the beginning is the

visibility confidence dial. Because if you start a

podcast, you will have to talk about it. And the

expectation and the idea is that people listen to

it. So visibility comes with that. And so you have

to make sure that you're confident in being

visible through the podcast. And that means being

confident in what you're talking about and knowing

what you're talking about. It doesn't mean knowing

all the answers. Of course it doesn't. No one

does. But just that, like, okay, this is going to

put me on this level. I'm going to talk about

this. I'm going to own it. Do I feel okay with

that? You know, and if you don't, like, what can

you do to optimise? Because it's never going to be

perfect. And if, if you're waiting for perfection,

you won't start. So I think, you know, it's just

really good to be tuned into all of that stuff

when you are thinking about starting a podcast,

because there are so many reasons you'll put it

off, you know, so just like, don't listen to all

of those because you were. They will just hold you

back from, from doing it. And look, I wouldn't

have a business, I wouldn't have an income. Like,

I don't know what I'd be doing if I hadn't started

my podcast. But I did, though.

>> Buckers: Those points that you're making around visibility

are so consistent with all the things that Katie

and I have been talking about, like both on the

podcast itself and frantically on WhatsApp.

>> Buckers: This,

>> Buckers: the distinction between confidence and visibility,

or like being comfortable with visibility, and

also what being comfortable with being visible

actually means. Because I think what I am starting

to recognise is, it's not about being confident in

your visibility in that you feel that you are

being visibly confident all the time. Being

comfortable with visibility, I feel, is much more

about being comfortable with being visibly

uncomfortable sometimes. Yeah, being okay to sit

in the uncertainty of something, being okay to sit

in the beginning stages of something, especially

when there's so many other things and people

podcasts you could compare yourself to being

visibly able to pop up on your Instagram storey

and say, hey, do you want to listen to my new

podcast episode? Knowing that you're only getting

10 downloads at the moment.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah.

>> Buckers: And being comfortable with that sort of initial

stages of something before you feel like it's

successful in inverted commas, whatever that

means.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yes. And knowing that you can grow into it, it.

Because you might have an idea in your head of

like, I'd love to feel like this about it. And if

you start one day, you probably will feel like

that. You won't start feeling like that, but

you'll grow into that place through gaining

experience and skills. And that's what life and

experience is like. That's all we have, really.

Like, you don't start anything being perfect at

it. You know, it's the whole 10,000 hours thing.

Like, yeah, my podcast is much better now than

when I started it. And someone said to me

recently, oh, have you taken early episodes down?

Down? Because you know, you cringe when you listen

back to them. And I was like, well, I don't listen

back to them and I haven't taken them down. It

hadn't even occurred to me to take them down. it's

just not what I'm about. Like, I just think, you

know, that the, especially when you're talking

about business and growing a business and the

massive, middle and the realities. Like I'm,

>> Buckers: Some people say some bizarre things to you with

regards to a really brilliant podcast. How do, do

you, do you. Are you able to stop your face from

doing what it, what your brain is doing when

somebody is saying those things?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: No, not really. I've never been good at that. I've

never been good at, not wearing my emotions on my

sleeve. But I think I'm very aware through my work

of the conditioning that women carry that makes

them say things like that. This whole

perfectionist people pleasing thing, it is a

sickness. Yeah, yeah. And it's not something that

we're really in control of, but you can be in

control of it if you start to notice it and you do

the work to unpick, and unlearn, You've heard me

say this on my podcast. It's not our fault the way

we are, but it is our responsibility.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah. And so when people say things like that to

me, honestly, stuff like that doesn't really land

with me because. And I don't even feel sorry for

those people in the moment, like, oh, you poor

thing that you're so, like, limited by your. It

just doesn't. I don't. I don't care about that. I

care about a lot of things. A lot of things land

with me. It was just having a conversation with a

friend about how we don't like feedback. You know,

we asked for feedback, but what we mean is, can I

have praise?

>> Buckers: Can I have some praise? Yeah. Give me some

compliments and make me feel great.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Please be like, here's your room for improvement.

I'm like, no, no, thank you. so, you know, there's

loads of things I'm not comfortable with, but

stuff like that doesn't land on me.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Buckers: Katie.

>> Katie: Yeah.

>> Buckers: Should we do Katie's questions?

>> Katie: Sure.

>> Buckers: Side note, Nicky how the hell are you supposed to

keep to time when conversation just snowballs,

like, just. Just for everybody's context? I have

not asked. Actually, no, I've asked some of my

questions. I've not followed the order of the

thing that I've got in front of me on my screen in

any way, but I'm having a bloody brilliant time.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I think that in of itself is quite an interesting

podcasting question, because when I started, I

would make a list of all my questions and I would

ask them all, no matter how long it took. And some

of my podcast episodes were like two hours, and I

had to edit them down. I've got much better over

time at, keeping the conversation tighter. yeah.

And for me, that means following threads that are

interesting and going, you know what? I won't ask

all my questions on the sheet because they weren't

relevant or it would have been disjointed. Just be

like, no, I want to ask you this now and pull

someone out of really interesting thread. So I

think that that is a skill, a podcasting skill,

and of itself is try and stay relatively to time.

You know, if there's something you really want to

ask me now, ask me. But trying to stay relatively

to time and trusting yourself to hold the

conversation that you can hold and therefore going

off script, because I've got a friend who was

interviewed by a big, big podcaster once. And, the

big, big podcaster in person was like, that's it.

I've asked all my questions now. And so my friend

then had to be like, well, why don't you ask me

about this or that? Like, because it was like she

was so focused on the script that she couldn't ask

questions outside of it.

>> Buckers: Or, yeah, scripts are prisons. It really is such

an inhibitor.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, exactly. So I think good to have the script.

And people will often want questions in advance.

All my guests get questions in advance, and if

that's for their comfort, that's fine. but I

always say to them, we very likely will deviate. I

probably won't ask you all of these questions. And

this is to give a flavour and a stick, not a

script.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: and I think that that's worth anyone who's

podcasting bearing in mind.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Buckers: Well, why don't we try a different way? And, I'll.

Why don't I tell you the, like, main things that I

was thinking of asking you and if you could be

like, nah, that's dry. I don't want to talk about

that. But that one I will talk about. We'll have a

little interlude. We have a little fun bit. Katie

does Katie's questions. She's got a jingle and

everything.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Oh, my God. Katie. Love that for you

>> Katie: I know right.

>> Buckers: Which has been very popular so far.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Ah.

>> Buckers: People have absolutely loved the jingle. I've gone

heavy on production on some of these.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Sure.

>> Buckers: And I make no apology

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: As is your want.

>> Buckers: That comes with my creative dial when it's turned

all the way to 11.

>> Katie: I love how you say people love the jingle. We've

had one person say they love the jingle.

>> Buckers: One person is. Is the beginnings of people.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Person loves the jingle. Well done, person.

>> Buckers: All right, let me put your jingle on. Are you

armed, with your questions? Nikki? This is

essentially us making a feature, out of what

podcast interviews already are. It's just asking

question. It's just we've put music under it and

decided to make it a feature.

>> Katie: Yeah.

>> Buckers: Right, Here we go.

>> Katie: Seamless.

>> Buckers: Is it happening?

>> Katie: Nope.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Is it a silent jingle?

>> Buckers: Take two. Here we go.

>> Katie: They may be invasive. They may be rambling. These

are, Katie's questions.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I did like that jingle.

>> Buckers: Right.

>> Katie: Two people.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Now it's people

>> Buckers: now it's people. Take it away, Katie.

>> Katie: I might buy myself, like, a fake flute to just

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: a piccolo.

>> Katie: Yeah.

>> Katie: Okay. First question is. So obviously your podcast

is called Women's Business. What is the, I want to

say best, but maybe not best. What do you feel

like is the most, like, important or, like, the

biggest thing about having these conversations

with women?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I think. Good question, Katie.

>> Katie: Thank you.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: There's some feedback for you. Praise.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: it's. It sounds really basic, but it's women

knowing that they're not alone in their experience

of starting a business, of potentially juggling a

business alongside a family, of potentially

struggling, failing in inverted commas. Iterating.

Trying again. I think it's really valuable for

women to hear other women doing that. You know,

there's the whole you can't be what you can't see

thing that comes up again and again. And I think

you can be what you can't see. I always say that.

I think some people are, what they haven't seen

before them, those people are trailblazers. But

for most people it is easier when something has

been shown to you. And I think that the podcast

shows people real world examples. You know, it's

not all celebrities with their shiny, shiny, multi

million pound businesses. Sometimes there are

women with multi million pound businesses.

Sometimes there are women with, you know, one

person operation and she doesn't want to scale it

beyond because that's what works for her life. And

for me, it's about showing women what's possible

for them, whatever their goals are, whatever their

measures of success are. And I think that's what

it was, what it gives people.

>> Katie: I love it. I was listening to one of your episodes

where you said, I love it, and then you're like, I

think I've said that, like ten times already this

episode. And I realised I do the same thing,

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I say it a lot. But we love it.

>> Katie: I love it.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: We love it,

>> Buckers: we love it. It's a lot to love.

>> Katie: So my second question is.

>> Buckers: Wait,

>> Katie: Oh, sorry, sorry. Katie's questions. Brilliant.

>> Buckers: It's a little in between-y one.

>> Katie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The second one is gonna, you're

gonna have to bear with me. I feel like it's. The

rambling bit is definitely at play here.

>> Buckers: Oh, your favourite, Nicky

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, I love it.

>> Katie: Yay.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Take as long as you need to get to the point. They

genuinely do. This is a safe space.

>> Katie: So you have children. So I'm guessing that you

have seen Inside out out, the film Inside Out.

Yes, yes. So with that in mind, I want you to

imagine Riley's like personality pillars that she

has that like the key core memories that make up

these like pillars.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yes.

>> Katie: Okay. That's the second image. So thinking of

that, if you could pinpoint a few things that have

been those pillars or have created those pillars

for like your confidence, your creativity. So like

people or experiences or education or even just

like media that you consume yourself. Could you

give us like a couple of those core pillars?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I mean, this is so deep.

>> Buckers: You have outdone yourself there.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: What an incredible question.

>> Buckers: Do you see what I mean?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Imagine if I was like, no, I haven't seen Inside

Out. Next question.

>> Katie: Be like, right, okay. Moving on. what's your

favourite biscuit?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Okay, so I, I would say that a bit like I was

saying before about how I had to reassess my

measures of success in my business when my

finances went back down to zero. I think that is

the moment at which these pillars probably started

to, like, really properly, take shape. And, And I

think that one of them is definitely joy,

enjoyment, like, enjoyment of the work. I do so

many fun things. I mean, this is fun, isn't it? I

mean, I've got my leg up.

>> Buckers: So fun.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I'm just so chill,

>> Buckers: so casual.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: so I think enjoyment is a massive one. I've got

much better with money mindset in terms of. Of

course I need to be paid for what I do, and there

is value in my work. And I encourage all women to

be of that mindset because what I don't want to do

is have this conversation and be like, my job's

just really fun and flexible, but I earn a

pittance. Like, I'm here to tell you that your job

can be really fun and flexible and you can earn

really good money eventually, you know, and that

you won't start there and you've got to get from A

to B. And it's really important that women do

earn, good money, because statistics show that

when women have more money, they do more good

things with it. And that doesn't just mean giving

it all to charity, it means investing it in their

communities. It means the way they support their

children. You know, it's just ownership. Only good

things happen. And so money has to be one of those

pillars. And I want women to let go of all their

shame around that. I could completely do a

separate episode about that. Okay, so I'll just

leave that there.

>> Buckers: We'll book that for series two.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Okay. So I think, I think enjoyment, I think money

and definitely flexibility. and kind of as part of

that flexibility thing, it is shedding the

employee mindset of, like, I have to work 9 to 5.

I can only earn, this much if I work work all the

time. I have a business model which has a kind of

passive income aspect to it. The community is a

lot of work, and I do nurture it and look after

it, but it's passive in the sense that, you know,

the subscriptions renew and the money comes in,

which is great. And then I'm always, innovating on

sort of like, how to add to that so that I can do

this today and then go and see my friend in town

and then Go to the theatre tonight on a working

day. And, I can go to every sports day and

nativity without having to ask anyone's

permission. so I think those would probably be the

three off the top of my head, I think. Enjoyment,

money and flexibility. Will they do? Will they do?

>> Buckers: With great questions come great answers.

>> Katie: No. I was thinking earlier when you were talking

about the confidence cockpit and what the, like,

styles are, I was thinking, I feel like for us,

us, like, the fun has been like a really

overarching thing because, I mean, we're having

really good conversations with people that, I

mean, Buckers already knows. I don't. So I'm

having a great time, like, getting to have

conversations with people that I don't know, but,

like, listening to their podcasts and then finding

all this stuff out. But also, like, we're school

friends, so we're just having a really good time.

>> Katie: I'm just, I know, nattering with each other every

week,

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: So good.

>> Katie: So I really like that. That's one of the. Just

having a nice time with it and enjoying it is

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: totally. And I just want to say, like, that

doesn't mean that there aren't things that are

boring or hard. I don't like doing my finances.

And, you know, sometimes something will give me

the data that says this isn't going to work out

the way you thought or, or, you know, there will

be days where, you know, a bunch of people leave

the community or things happen. And I'm not, you

know, that's. That's life. So I'm not saying it

should all be enjoyable, but I do think that an

aim can be enjoyment. And, I think that a lot of

people I speak to on the podcast and a lot of

people of the generation above us grew up thinking

work equals hard graft, and in order to get

anything good, you have to work hard. Well, let

Elon Musk be an example to you. No one works hard

enough to make a trillion dollars dollars. There's

no amount of work you could do that would quantify

having a trillion dollars. So that should just

show you that, you know, time does not equal

money. Like, it just doesn't work like that. so I

always tell people, you know, especially someone

like Buckers, where you charge, you know, sort of

for the hour or whatever is not about how much the

hour costs. It's a map. It's about the value that

you bring to that hour. Because what you can do in

an hour would take me a day day. And that's

valuable to Me. And so I, really, really, you

know, I bring it back to money a lot now because

I've had such a massive mindset shift. But I think

that ties into the enjoyment piece and how it is

possible to enjoy your work, not work every hour

that that is sent, and, seek out those pockets of

joy because, like, they're there. And it's so

great when you get to enjoy your job. And when I

talk to my kids about future careers, I don't say

to them, what do you want to be be? Because it's

not existential. They. They are who they are. I

want them to be kind and, you know, fun and

considerate and compassionate. What do they want

to do for work? Well, the things that should

factor into that are where do you want to live?

What kind of lifestyle do you want to have? What

kind of house do you want to live in, what kind of

holidays do you want to go, on how much freedom

and flexibility do you want to have? And then you

can look at the jobs that might be available that

feed a certain lifestyle where you can live by the

sea and go skateboarding every Sunday morning or

whatever it is that you to do. You know, these are

the things that people should be thinking about

when they're planning their lives. so, sorry. I

mean, I've gone off on a bit of a rant there, but

basically, work can be fun. Tldr. Yeah.

>> Buckers: Yeah. And a word that you have used, a lot that

I've picked up on is the word easeful.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yes.

>> Buckers: And I. I'd never heard the word being used in that

way before, so it's really stuck with me. And I

was reminded of it when you were just talking a m.

Moment ago about how people think that for work to

be valuable, it's got to be hard graft or for it

to be, you know, almost like, What's the word?

Make people sound more like heroes. Like, put. Put

people on a bit of a pedestal when they've had to

work really hard and they, like, you know, they

got knocked down and they got back up again. And

like, that's not to say that that isn't worthy of,

praise and support, but it's almost like we feel

guilty if something is less hard. You know, if

we're not completely burnt out and on the floor,

then we. We haven't earned our weekend. And I love

this sort of. This notion of things not being

easy. But easeful.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, aligned meant, you know, things that feel

like. Again, going back to that whole, like, when

you have ideas that stick versus, you know, ideas

that don't. it's not. Does it feel easy to

execute? Because running a big event for 100

people or starting a petition doesn't feel easy to

execute. But does it feel easeful, as in

interesting aligned.

>> Buckers: How much resistance is there against it, even if

it's something that feels hard?

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, that's a question that I ask myself.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Buckers: You got any more Katie's questions, Katie?

>> Katie: I. I don't think I do.

>> Buckers: I mean, we got bang for our buck there. I think

we're not wanting for more

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Buckers Do you want to list the other talking

points? And I'll tell you, they were shit?

>> Buckers: I would love nothing more, Nicky

>> Katie: Yeah, me too.

>> Buckers: I wanted to ask you about the sponsorship side of

things, because something I really love about your

approach to conversations with the women that you

have on your podcast is there's a lot of

demystifying and just kind of asking, like, quite

direct questions.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yes,

>> Buckers: Within reason of what people are comfortable

talking about. But, you know, you ask people what

their business model was, you ask people how they

funded something, was that your own investment or

did you get other. Did you get help, et cetera.

And I, I think that sponsorship, podcast

sponsorship still feels like this quite mystical

thing. There's no kind of like industry standard

prices.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Agreed.

>> Buckers: The term cost per milli gets thrown around and,

you know, you've got to know about your metrics.

And if you have this many downloads, you can get

this much per episode. And do you charge per

episode or per series? And do people approach you

or do you approach them? I think that can be. Be a

bit kind of overwhelming for people. And also, and

I think patriarchy comes into this, this notion

of, well, if you're. If you really are passionate

about what you're talking about, well, then why

should you want to be paid to do it? Why should

you seek sponsorship to do it? And I really want

to, like, encourage people that whilst you

shouldn't do a podcast purely to earn money from

it, because for the reasons that we kind of

touched on earlier, that it then won't really be

coming from an authentic place, there is also

absolutely nothing wrong to have Monet of your

podcast on your. On your vision board. Like.

Absolutely.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Podcast is a lot of work.

>> Buckers: Exactly. Exactly.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Why would you not be paid for it?

>> Buckers: There's no shame in, you know, wanting to. To earn

money from a podcast. So have you got anything

that you can chuck into the mixer with regards to

monetizing your. Your podcast? What could you sort

of Break down for us.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: No, I haven't. No, I'm joking.

>> Buckers: Okay. Nice to stick to you like and subscribe.

Bye. Got.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I've got a lot of things so I'll try and be

succinct. I agree with you completely about the

kind of smoke and mirrors and the wild west and

it's very infuriating and I love to demystify

stuff as much as possible. You're right. On my

podcast I ask people questions they maybe don't

get asked and I talk very openly about my revenue

streams and stuff. I started out getting podcast

sponsorship by asking my community, you know, my

followers on Instagram, does anyone want to

sponsor the podcast? It's a bit of an experiment.

I think I charged 100 quid per episode episode or

maybe 50. That was a bit of a suck it and see. And

then last year I had a brand sponsor who found me

through chat GPT, through a conversation with chat

where they were like, we want, you know, this is

our demographic and blah, blah, blah. Now I don't

do anything my side in terms of SEO on chat GPT.

So that was, you know, just come, that came from

the wild world. I thought that was interesting.

Sometimes people approach me. More often than not,

I approach people. Every now and then I put it out

on social media and say, oh, I need sponsors. And

then someone will say, can you send me the m info?

I run this large scale event once a year and so

for the latter part of this year, the sponsorship

that they've paid to sponsor the event, part of

their package has been that I've put sponsorship

on the podcast because it's a really good way to

reach lots of people.

>> Buckers: Yes.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: So that's why I'm booked up sponsorship wise till

the end of the year. Because, because, because I'm

using the sponsors from my event. But sometimes

I'll make a strategic move. So I recently got

approached by a global brand to interview someone

from their team.

>> Buckers: Ooh.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: The, the episode's already out. I'll tell you who

it was. Afterwards I interviewed this woman, even

though she's not a founder, because I did

genuinely think she's a woman in the C suite. She

will have an interesting storey for my listeners.

And she did. We had a really good chat and at the

end of our chat, once I stopped recording, I said

to her, you know, I think there's quite a lot of

align here. you know, would you ever consider

supporting the podcast? And she said, let me put

you in touch with someone in the partnerships team

and I'm now in touch with them and I've had a call

with them and there is a chance they're going to

sponsor some episodes of the podcast. And so I

really encourage people and talk about this a lot

to think out of left field. And I think that you

don't have to be an ultra strategic person and sit

down and have strategy sessions with yourself to

sometimes make important strategic decisions in

the moment. And that was one where I was like, I'm

being pitched this global brand. Brand. Would I

immediately say yes otherwise? No. But could I

have an interesting conversation and, potentially

leverage it? Yes. So I got an interesting guest

out of it and I got a potential sponsor out of it.

And there's nothing wrong with doing that. That's

the world we live in. Yeah. That is a quid pro quo

situation. She gets lots of promotion from being

on the podcast and all. Like, she could have said

no, by the way. She could have said no. That won't

be right for us. Thanks for your time. I still

would have put the episode out.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: And so, yeah, that's the ways that I get sponsored

that I still find pricing very challenging because

some people want your CPM and they want how many

downloads, by the way, you could make all that

stuff up. I think, like, I still don't think

anyone else can see your numbers. Correct me if

I'm wrong.

>> Buckers: As. As far as I'm aware, there's no. There's no

like, public listing

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah. Right. So, yes, with sponsorship, you know,

go for it. Ask your network first, ask your

community first. Be like, look, this is an

experiment. This is a suck it and see. Be honest

about that. Chuck me 50 quid an episode. Be honest

with me, feed me, feedback wise, wince when, when

it comes in about. Did this do anything for you?

Did it benefit you in any way? Because as I've got

more sponsors, the other thing I do is every

sponsor, comes on as a guest at the front end of

their run of episodes.

>> Buckers: Yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: And I think hearing that person's storey is what

people really buy into. They're much more likely

to then engage with that brand, really, from that

episode. So they've sort of bought that episode in

a way. But lots of people that I've done that with

have been like, yeah, sponsoring your podcast was

really good. It brought people into my world, even

if didn't immediately buy from me. It expanded my

mailing list. It was the top of funnel exercise.

Those people are now in my world. And so I'm more

confident about, yes, it can Actually benefit you

>> Buckers: and pitching further... to further brands.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, but think, think properly about am, I

actually ready for sponsors? Like, is the podcast

ready for sponsors? Can I genuinely go out there

and say, I think this will bring you business as a

sponsor? because sometimes people have approached

me like, alcohol brands. I don't drink alcohol.

Coffee brands. I don't drink coffee. I'm not going

to promote coffee or alcoh. because I can't, I

don't drink those things. I can't be

like - I just cannot start my day...

>> Buckers: You can say it exists. You can say, have you heard

of this? Yes, it's probably nice.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, exactly, exactly. You might like it. And

that's how you build that trust. You only promote

things that your listeners know. You would only

promote it if you genuinely believed it. And so

then, you know, you can kind of build it from

there. So for me, like, it's not my main income

stream and to be honest, pretty much all the money

I make from podcast sponsorship goes to paying you

to produce the episodes. But every penny I. Yes,

and I'm really peaceful about that. I'm genuinely

really peaceful about that because I really

believe in paying women, as many women as I

possibly can. And I focus on growing other revenue

streams in the time that I get back from editing

the podcast. So at the moment the podcast washes

its face and I'm, and I'm happy with that. And I

think there's potential, potential for more.

>> Buckers: Yeah, I really, I'm really pleased that you

mentioned that for, you know, the, the next series

part of the sponsorship is kind of like lumped in

with this big event that you do. Yeah, it doesn't

have to just be emailing a brand. Say, hello, I've

got this podcast and would you like to give me,

this much money for me to say your name on my

podcast? You can create almost, almost like

bespoke packages. So you may have only just

started your podcast, but you might have, you

might have developed a big following on Instagram

or LinkedIn over the last couple of years. So you

can bring in other kind of, I'm doing this with my

hands and I know that that connects to some kind

of word in my head. I know, like chunks, like a

gift bag of smaller items rather than one big

thing.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's helpful. And I

think, think that with podcast sponsorship, like I

said, I would just, I would just try it and be

open minded and ask people, ask other people what

they charge. Ask me like DM me, because when that

big brand came to me through Chat GPT. You can bet

your bottom dollar I charge them more than I

charged my mates. And what I would say is every

sponsor I've had, I've had a relationship with,

apart from that one. Every sponsor I've had, even

this big brand. I'd interviewed the founder, we

had a rapport, we had a conversation. Then I could

ask her, if I had gone to that global brand with a

cold ass, they would have been like, who? I don't

think they would have even replied. So, you know,

think strategically about, about who you're asking

and when.

>> Buckers: Yeah, I think that's a really, really important

point. I know that we've been recording for over

an hour. I wanted to ask you so many more things

than I have, which is fine, because it's fine to

deviate from the plan. I wanted to ask you, you

have like a little, cluster of questions that you

ask every guest and I wanted you to just quickly,

tell us about those and why and if any of the

responses ever surprise you. And then I wanted to

ask you about what you want to tell people about

that you're working on at the moment. and I have

whittled it down to those last two things

begrudgingly.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: That's fine. I'll allow it.

>> Buckers: So I've completely forgotten the first thing that

I said now, so

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I've, I've remembered it. So you're good.

>> Buckers: Over to you.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: The questions that I ask everyone are talk to me

about your earliest memories of work. And I asked

that question so that we set a scene in terms of

the context that they exist within, specifically

what their upbringing was like with their parents

working. Single parent household was work hard,

graft, and that was conditioned into them. Or were

they told, you know, you can do whatever you want?

Because I think, I think that context is always.

>> Buckers: We get the context. Yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: And it also brings everyone down to a level, you

know, whether you're a multimillionaire or whether

you're a one woman operation. Everyone starts on a

level. and it brings them back to that. And I

think people quite like having that conversation

and that indulgence of being like, oh, this is

what my childhood was like. Then I ask everyone

about careers advice at school because it's

universally shit. And I just want people to think

about that for themselves and for their own kids.

Then we go into the whole storey and then at the

end I asked them to shout out another woman for

obvious reasons, all about genuinely lifting

women. And I've got so many great guests out of

that which I didn't intend, but actually a lot of

people will say to me, speak to this person. So

like Sophie Lee recommended Yinka Iwo Ola. she's

amazing. She introduced me to Yinka. Yinka was one

of my favourite guests. And then I said to Yinka,

would you speak at my event that I keep wanging on

about? It's called Wilder Live, by the way, and

it's in October. And that will happen because of

someone being like, this person is brilliant and

you should speak to them. So I like doing that.

And that's a newer thing. I haven't always done

that, but I'm so glad I do that. Then I asked them

what advice they would give to their younger self

in a business context, like going back to a

certain point in their career. What would they say

to themselves? Either advice or just a moment of

compassion. Because I think that can be quite

revealing. Not because anyone gets a do over, but

because it's interesting for listeners to hear

those reflections if they're at a different point

on their journey

>> Buckers: especially if they're in a similar place.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then the final question

is, what is your favourite thing about you? And

it's really hard for a lot of women, for most

women to answer that question. and that's why I

ask it, because I really want women to hold a

mirror up to themselves and be like, God, I am

great. There's loads of great things about me. And

it's okay and safe to say out loud. I think I'm

really good at X or Y, or I'm a really kind or

compassionate person or I've got a brilliant

business brain or I'm really funny. It's really,

really powerful for women to own that about

themselves. And so that is my find. Final

question.

>> Buckers: Yeah, I edit a lot of podcasts and, and the, the

same final question is quite a, quite a common

feature to do. And what is your favourite thing

about you? Is by far my favourite closing question

of a podcast. And the reason is because it's so

simple but so difficult for a lot of women. And I,

I, when, when I return the episode to you, you, I

purposefully always leave whatever length pause

they have taken to answer that question because I

think there is something so powerful about sitting

in that moment of reflection, discomfort or. Oh,

I've never been asked that before. It really, it's

so, I think it's so, telling how people respond to

that.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I agree.

>> Buckers: Of how infrequently we are either asked that by

other People or how infrequently we. We consider

it for ourselves. And I think that's one of the

best things about your podcast is that is giving

women that space. And. And what's interesting is

it's because it's at the end of the episode how

often somebody struggles to answer that at the end

of talking about all of the brilliant things that

they've done.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I know.

>> Buckers: And like, oh, But then I love that there are also

guests who are like, don't struggle to answer it

at all. And I think that in a similar way to your

first question, it puts everyone on a level

because all the listeners can get to see

themselves in. In your guests, whether it's

somebody who struggles to answer it or somebody

who doesn't struggle to answer it. Both are okay.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: Yeah, exactly. And I understand both, and I think.

But I just think it's a, It's telling how, like

you said, women are so incredible, and they've

told this incredible storey, and then they're

like, oh, don't ask me.

>> Buckers: And I love that you very rarely pander to it. You

very rarely are like, it's okay. You, you know,

take your time.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I'm like, come on, you can do better for

yourselves.

>> Buckers: And, yeah. And even if they're kind of, If. When

they sound maybe a little bit unsure, a little bit

apologetic about their answer, I love the matter

of factness with which you receive it. It's almost

like reaffirming to people. Like, yeah, it's.

That's a. That's a really valid thing to like

about yourself. Cool. Thanks for coming on.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: I know. Because I feel like they want to go. It's

this. And then wince. Like, yeah, wait for me to

go. Really? It's that.

>> Buckers: Yeah, yeah.

>> Nicky Denson-Elliott: You know, And I'm like, good one

>> Buckers: Or no, that's really good. That's okay. Like,