We kick off with a riveting discussion on the echoes of World War II in today's policies and leadership styles. The conversation explores the robust concept of "peace through strength," drawing parallels between the leadership of Winston Churchill and Ronald Reagan, and critiquing modern U.S. foreign policy.

Switching gears, we tackle some contentious issues closer to home, including the evolving landscape of scouting and its challenges, the controversies surrounding race-based dating sites, and the pressing question of government intervention in personal freedoms.

New NFL football rule changes aimed at reducing violence stir debate among fans and professionals alike.

All these discussions are wrapped up with a critical look at the role of technology and social media in education and the psychological impacts on today's youth.

Top Common Sense Takeaways

1. **Impact of Historical Leadership**: The conversation highlights the significance of strong leadership, drawing parallels between Winston Churchill’s and Ronald Reagan’s approaches of "peace through strength."

2. **Role of Foreign Policy**: The critiquing of U.S. foreign policy, including discussions on how historical events influence modern international relations and the handling of conflicts such as the Afghanistan war, can provide insights into the evolution and consequences of foreign policy decisions.

3. **Legal and Ethical Complexities in Modern Politics**: Issues like former President Trump’s legal challenges, attorney-client privilege, and the handling of classified documents underscore the intricate legal and ethical landscape in today’s politics, highlighting the challenges in balancing legality and political strategy.

4. **Youth and Technology**: The discussion about the ubiquitous presence of cell phones and their impacts on students’ mental health and school environments reflects increasing concerns about technology's role in education and child development.

5. **Government Overreach and Individual Rights**: There's a recurrent theme about the tension between government intervention and personal freedoms, especially concerning controversial topics like gender reassignment surgeries for minors and regulations involving children.

6. **Decline of Traditional Institutions**: The episode discusses the effects of changing societal values on institutions such as the Boy Scouts of America, highlighting how shifts in societal norms and controversies can impact longevity and public trust in traditional organizations.

7. **Safety and Policy in Sports**: The new rules in the NFL designed to reduce injuries and alter gameplay dynamics show how safety concerns are reshaping sports, reflecting broader trends of safety and wellness becoming paramount in various fields.

Common Sense Moments

07:20 Commitment to struggle and fight for freedom.

15:21 Comparison of current situation to 1930s-40s.

20:33 Pretrial issues prolong trials, sometimes requiring appeals.

25:29 Attorney-client privileges protect client information, testimony.

31:37 Ohio bill to limit cell phone use.

44:33 Government takes control of parental decision-making, big brother intervenes.

59:44 Boy Scouts rebranding amid financial and scandal.

01:14:31 Discomfort with racial exclusive dating site perspective.

Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.

Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.

Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/

Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.

info@commonsenseohioshow.com

Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:00

Alright. Here we are. Common Sense, Ohio. 5102024. 5102024. Common Sense. Ohio coming at you with your weekly dose of Common Sense right from Ohio, right from the middle. We are here at channel 511 Studio C brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting.

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:17

If you, then we got the electronic notifications in the background. If you, That was subliminal. A subliminal notification.

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:26

Right. Exactly. Yep. It's brought to

Norm Murdock [: 00:00:28

you by.

Steve Palmer [: 00:00:28

Yeah. Brought to you by so brought to you by Harbor Plus Accounting. If you have any interest in any of the back episodes of the shows because you're just now tuning in, I highly encourage you to go to commonsense ohio show dot com, where we make it easy to like, subscribe, listen, check out content, check out blogs, norms blogs that just are are rolling out like thunder in the spring in Ohio with tornadoes behind them. So anyway, we're, we're gonna get right out at every if you've been tuning in, if you haven't, you'll soon know this. We've been given little world War 2 tidbits of the day, facts about World War 2. Why do I do this? Because years ago when I was, back in law school in the nineties, the Columbus Dispatch, a former newspaper, here well, it's still around, but not really like a newspaper. A newspaper but what's the one that's gone? The Citizens Journal used to come out in the evening.

Norm Murdock [: 00:01:14

That was it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:01:15

But the dispatch always had this day, 50 years ago today in history or something. And in the nineties, that meant we were learning World War 2 tidbits. So there was always like a throwback to a news story from World War 2, and I just thought that was cool. So when I got the dispatch delivered at my curb every morning, I would so I was getting ready for law school, drinking my coffee, I would check, I would read the World War 2 fact of the day. So Yeah. That's why we're doing it here. One thing good that came from the Columbus Dispatch.

Norm Murdock [: 00:01:38

There was no yahoo.com to read? No. Not really. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:01:42

You had to sign in with a with a, with a copy server or something in a in a in a phone mode where you put your phone in the thing. But anyway, on this day in world in world war 2, I was gonna last week, I said I was gonna talk about the end of world war 2, but instead, I think it's far more appropriate to talk about the beginning because on May 10 19 40, at approximately 5:35 AM, Germany invades. They go right through Belgium. They go south right around the Maginot Line, and the rest, as they say, is history. They, they plow through, within days, they were, you know, or maybe by June, they were, what was Dunkirk? That's June mid June ish. Yeah. They had pushed the 4 allied forces all the way back to Dunkirk. And if you've seen the movie, if not even read the story, they don't even have to read him or you just watch movies.

Steve Palmer [: 00:02:30

You can see, learn about the evacuation at Dunkirk. Pretty soon, France well, it was just within days, France had surrendered. The VICI government eventually emerges, and, you know, the dark cloud sort of descends upon the continent Yeah. And the world, really. Yeah. So, you know, what was interesting, I love I'm I'm a Winston Churchill fan. So but if you look at English history up until that time, a guy named Neville Chamberlain, who is a lot like, Biden Biden, I mean, an appeaser, who, who thought he could just make Hitler happy and keep giving ground, seeding the field, giving him more, giving him more, giving him more, giving him more. Ironically, it's worth a discussion to say this.

Steve Palmer [: 00:03:10

We did take away too much after World War 1. So, you know, we basically decimated Germany. We we we created a barren field with nothing there. And, you know, if you do that and then leave, sort of like we did in Afghanistan back in the eighties

Norm Murdock [: 00:03:23

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:03:23

You know, bad stuff emerges. You know, it's got to.

Norm Murdock [: 00:03:26

The the allies at Treaty Versailles was a disaster. And one thing, it's maybe the only good thing I could say about Woodrow Wilson is he did object to the overreaching at the end of World War 1. He objected. He signed a treaty, but he signed it holding his nose. And he and he told them this is wrong what you're doing because this is gonna come back and bite you. Yeah. And it and it did.

Steve Palmer [: 00:03:51

And those who have studied these wars say there's really no World War 1 or 2. There's just one big war. You know? And it wasn't even that long between them.

Norm Murdock [: 00:03:58

With an intermission.

Steve Palmer [: 00:03:59

Yeah. With an intermission. And you could even go further into the Cold War because same thing.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:03

Desert storm 1 and desert storm 2. Like like, we did not conclude the job in Desert Storm 1. We did not get the job done.

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:11

Done. If you yeah. So you can't just half and United States is notorious for this.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:15

Notorious. You

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:15

know, it's like we wanna we wanna win. We wanna win now. We wanna win quick. And if we can't, then the politics get in the way, and we can't do anything. But, anyway, as a result of this change Or

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:23

or or or we don't wanna win and we just

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:26

We just act like

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:27

we want. We just languish

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:28

Half measures.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:29

Like that thing in Afghanistan that went on the longest war in American history. What was it? Like, 25 years

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:34

25 years.

Norm Murdock [: 00:04:35

Or something crazy.

Steve Palmer [: 00:04:36

Because we couldn't pull it. It just couldn't find I mean, we we had all the resources we could have done and we could have done what but, you know, just classic American. Right. So we now have Biden who's riding both sides of this. You know, he's he's basically created an embargo for Israel at the same time. He act he a week ago, he's given the speech in support of the Holocaust and will never forget and blah blah blah. And then he delays his like, I guess he signs the order right before he gives the Holocaust speech, but doesn't publish it until until the week later, so he could still look like he's supporting Israel at the same time he creates a an embargo for weapons. It's like you can't play both sides of this stuff, and that's what Chamberlain was doing at the time.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:14

So Yes. I I try to always tie the histories together. Like, he who doesn't study history is doomed to repeat it. Yeah. And this is happening. You know, this is this the weak leadership causes this crap.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:23

Yeah. I mean, the very definition of feckless.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:26

Yeah. Exactly. I mean, just absolutely feckless. That's a great word for it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:29

And what what what Churchill was espousing, it was the motto of the old strategic air command painted on every sign at every base, peace through strength. Yep. Right? If you want peace, be the baddest m effer on the planet.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:46

Sure. And Reagan knew it, and then Margaret Thatcher knew it

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:49

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:50

Back in the eighties.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:51

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:51

They had the same sort of philosophy.

Norm Murdock [: 00:05:53

Carry a big stick.

Steve Palmer [: 00:05:54

Yep. And so, you know, historically, at the time, Chamberlain was in charge. And and quickly, he was ousted, and Churchill takes over Yep. And sort of in this combined party. Now I don't presume to know British politics all that well, but he basically it it was sort of like a consult like, a lot like what's going on in Israel. Like, there's this consolidated war cabinet of all the parties, like, alright. Now we gotta get together and we gotta fight this war. This is, like, for our survival.

Norm Murdock [: 00:06:21

And he had been since the Nazis came to power, he had been making speeches in the House of Commons for a decade, you know, condemning British policy of weakness and and not building up the military, not being ready to face off against Hitler. He had been saying these kinds of things for 10, 12 years.

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:41

Not unlike what's going on in Canada with Poliyev and, what's his name, Trudeau. Yeah. You know, and eventually

Norm Murdock [: 00:06:47

And so when that, you know, the fecal matter hit the rotating air handler Yeah. Churchill was the natural guy.

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:55

Yeah. The guy with the gusto.

Norm Murdock [: 00:06:57

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:06:57

The guy with the brass is gonna come in and take care of it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:07:00

Because he was a lone voice.

Steve Palmer [: 00:07:01

So his blood toil and tears or blood toil tears and sweat speech is sort of this famous thing. And I'm not gonna play the whole thing. I I happen to stop it right on a clip, and hopefully, we can all hear it. So we're gonna we're gonna he goes in. This is on, I think, 13th of May. So this is a few days later. He comes in, and, and here he is.

Winston Churchhill [: 00:07:20

I would stay to the house, and I said to those who have joined the government, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. Where before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. Bear before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask what is our policy? I will say, it is to wage war by sea, land, and air with all our might and with all the strength that god can give us. To wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpass in the dark and lamentable catalog of human crime. That is our

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:05

Alright. We'll stop it there. But, again, doesn't it give

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:07

you chills?

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:08

Yeah. Wow. It's like the world was listening.

Brett Johnson [: 00:08:11

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:11

And did you notice

Brett Johnson [: 00:08:12

painting a picture of your enemy? Just one sentence there.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:15

There's there's 2 things he said that you can't say today. Right? He's he talked about God. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can't do

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:23

that. No.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:23

Of course. And and and then he also talked about his population and, of course, by extension, when America went entered the war, sacrifice. And and and and you just think about this this bad flu that we had called COVID. And there like, no sacrifice was called upon

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:42

No. In America.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:43

And like Well, no.

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:44

There was they they but you know how they they twisted around. Like, we should sacrifice our livelihoods, our businesses, and everything else

Brett Johnson [: 00:08:50

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:08:50

So you guys can take over and give the money to the rich people.

Norm Murdock [: 00:08:52

Well and yeah. And we'll prop you up. But but my my my point was, basically, you know, and I was watching this this movie called Worth with Michael Keaton. And it's and it's all about, you know, compensating after the Pearl Harbor like attack of 911. How were compensating people who were simply victims? They come on, man. Most of them weren't heroes. They weren't the firemen going up the, you know, the stairway.

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:21

Why? We we did a show on this

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:22

years ago.

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:23

So it's like Well, where's

Norm Murdock [: 00:09:24

the sacrifice? You know, like, there should be a sting when there's a wrong against your country. There's a sting. There's a sacrifice.

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:31

When you here's here's the thing that we that was true then that I fear is not true now. But I also think that there's hope. I don't think we love our like, these people protesting, these people fighting, against, Israel, like, all the stuff you hear.

Norm Murdock [: 00:09:48

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:48

I don't think they care 2 craps about Israel and Palestine. No. You're right. But they ally with these people because they have one thing in common, they hate the country. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:09:56

And, you

Steve Palmer [: 00:09:56

know, they think the United States is bad. They think that we're evil. They think that the the western civilization upon which Israel is, is founded is somehow bad and it needs to be dismantled. So they have that common ground. And, you know, you wonder. Now that's the bad news. The good news is I think it is an extreme minority of people that are just the loudest voices right now. I think most people still love the country, at least I do.

Brett Johnson [: 00:10:21

And and my hope is it it's that. Yeah. I, you know, I I I think so too.

Steve Palmer [: 00:10:26

I I talked to my son, who's in college. I talked to, other people whose kids are around. And, you know, by and large, they're supporting the country. You know, it's like, enough's enough. And sometimes it takes something like a backlash or something like this or some some moment, Yeah. Some big event like, Germany evading not evading, invading, in 1940 to wake everybody up that you can't just put your head in the sand and let this crap go. Yeah. And, you know, then, you know, the United States has been time and time again sort of guilty of this.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:00

And we didn't really care about the revolutionary war. At least most people didn't. You had a few that did, and they had a revolution. And then next thing you know, the fight's going on in people's backyard farms, and they're like, well, wait a minute. You can't you can't come in my house. So they then the people started the same thing in 18/12, and nobody gave 2 in fact, people weren't I mean, who like, you use the word impressment to people out in the farms. They're like, impress what? I'm doing my job here. I don't need to worry about this.

Brett Johnson [: 00:11:24

And then they

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:25

go to DC.

Brett Johnson [: 00:11:25

You encapsulate encapsulate it right there. I'm doing my job. I'm doing this stuff here. I don't have time

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:30

for all the world leaders.

Brett Johnson [: 00:11:30

I get 80% of my life is doing this to survive.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:33

A very American notion, I think. Yeah. Like, we look. I wanna be free. I want the government out of my life. I wanna just do what I do, take care of my family. I realize I'm sweating in the fields all day long, and I'm working to do what I can and get done. And we're gonna work around the government.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:47

And most of the time, it doesn't make any difference. But wait a minute. He burned Washington, DC.

Norm Murdock [: 00:11:51

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:52

Now we have a problem.

Winston Churchhill [: 00:11:53

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:11:53

Right? Or and and I think that's how we felt at 911, to some extent. Yeah. And I think what's happening now is people are watching these idiots hoist the Palestinian flag in American government universities. Yeah. And enough's enough. Yeah. I'm hoping there's a backlash here. And, you know, I think Biden is stepping into a cesspool that he can't get out of here.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:16

Like, trying to ride both sides of the bench here or both sides of the fence here is it it doesn't work.

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:22

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:22

It doesn't work. Like, he's he's who's he appeasing? His flank? I mean, the these these, like, what American is cool with hoisting a Palestinian flag

Brett Johnson [: 00:12:32

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:32

Where ours should be? Right. Like, who's cool with that?

Norm Murdock [: 00:12:35

Yeah. Yeah. Not even mayor Adams.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:37

Yeah. Not even mayor Adams. You know? Yeah. So Like, I don't support that on any level whatsoever. No matter what you feel about the war in Israel and Gaza, like, wait a minute. That doesn't mean you hoist a Palestinian flag. And let these idiots take over your public university so students can't go to school. It's like Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:12:56

So on the one hand, Biden is saying, well, we all protest. We're allowed to protest.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:02

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:13:02

It just can't be violent. Yeah. And I'm not gonna support the war for Israel anymore. In fact, I'm gonna support Palestine. And we're gonna tell Palestine that Israel is not gonna attack them because we're not gonna let them.

Norm Murdock [: 00:13:14

Well, it's it's holocaust denial all over again to where the the Jewish students are now putting out videos showing the factual newsreel footage of what happened on October 7th. Yeah. Because people are I mean, we're just a few months away from that.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:31

You you

Steve Palmer [: 00:13:32

hear people.

Norm Murdock [: 00:13:32

People are already saying, oh, they didn't rape any women. They didn't kill any

Steve Palmer [: 00:13:36

Yeah. They yeah. It's it's

Norm Murdock [: 00:13:37

I mean, what are you

Steve Palmer [: 00:13:38

talking about? And not only didn't not only did they do it, they documented it. Yeah. But this isn't like, this isn't like I heard tell that somebody got raped. This is like, no. Somebody got raped, and we videotape doing it. The guilty people videotaped it so they could shove it up your face or shove it in your face.

Norm Murdock [: 00:13:55

Here's an unclothed, dead girl in the back of our pickup truck.

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:00

With blood all over her backside.

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:01

Yeah. And here's here's great old video of that.

Brett Johnson [: 00:14:03

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:04

You know, like, we're really happy about that. Right. Okay. Okay. So it's doc it to me, it's it's the Dachau ovens all over again. I mean, to me, there's just no difference. I mean, you're killing people because of their identity, because they're Jews, because they're

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:20

But the the ignorance of it is also astounding. So when these students, American students are interviewed about why they're there, they can't answer. No. You know, they they have the couple tropes that they they drop, you know, the the common sort of buzzwords. Right. But when they're really pushed, like, what but yeah. But what is Colombia doing that that's a and they don't have an answer. They have no answer.

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:41

They're just there because they hate the country. And why do they hate the country? Because they've been taught that now for a whole generation that we're horrible, evil, awful people. Yeah. So, anyway, that's my rant.

Norm Murdock [: 00:14:50

That's a great great, piece of audio. And, you know, people can go find that on YouTube because there's video that goes with that.

Steve Palmer [: 00:14:58

There's video that goes with it. And I tell you what, it's what I go every now and then when I can't sleep at night, which is, like, every night. I put the headphones on, and I, you know, I I listen to stuff like this. They call me crazy. Call me a geek. Whatever. Yeah. But it it gives you chills.

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:14

Like, listen to this stuff, because there's always a lesson that you can glean from it Yeah. That you can apply today.

Norm Murdock [: 00:15:21

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:21

And, you know, that we're sort of living in this weird parallel of where we were back in the thirties and forties, I think, back in 20, thirties and forties, because there's this push for socialism. There's a push for government. Like, like, people talk about the threat to democracy. The threat to democracy where I come from my vantage point is the, the rise or the the growing strength of the executive branch to sort of take over and do whatever they want without any elections or voting. Because anytime the executive branch or anytime the, administrative branches act, it's just like an interpretation of some rule. We didn't vote. We have no idea what the hell is going on. Yep.

Steve Palmer [: 00:15:54

And that becomes a law that you're prosecuted for. Yep. And, you know, that is the biggest threat to democracy right now as far as I can tell.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:00

It is.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:01

And that was going on with FDR and his new deal that was going on with Woodrow Wilson before him. You know, it's like these these are the things where we think that it's almost and, you know, not to get biblical about it, but maybe a little bit. It's, like, whenever man sort of thinks that we can we can steer the ship on our own, and we don't need the protections of the three branches of government anymore, and we're smart enough to do this on our own.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:25

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:25

It's like disaster.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:26

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:26

Like looming disaster. And that's where we are right now.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:29

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because it

Brett Johnson [: 00:16:31

you know, that's not gonna be discussed in the debate because they both candidates want that power.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:36

They they do.

Brett Johnson [: 00:16:37

You know? It almost feels like a boiling pot of that frog in the boiling pot.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:41

Now your prediction is there isn't gonna be a debate.

Brett Johnson [: 00:16:43

Predict there won't be a debate.

Brett Johnson [: 00:16:44

Yeah. There's no

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:44

there's no debate. Yeah. I don't think we're gonna show up for debate. I don't think Biden's gonna be candid. My prediction's still here.

Brett Johnson [: 00:16:49

That's true. That's your I mean, he says he will. I think he's been on on mic or camera saying, yeah. Bring it on.

Brett Johnson [: 00:16:54

I'll talk to him.

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:55

Behind the wheelhouse.

Brett Johnson [: 00:16:56

But that doesn't mean No. Shit. I mean, that's just that's just

Steve Palmer [: 00:16:58

Biden is not gonna debate.

Norm Murdock [: 00:16:59

You know?

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:00

Biden couldn't debate himself in the mirror, let alone debate

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:02

Trump on stage. And I don't think Trump's gonna do I mean, I think Trump would love to do it, but it's like it's almost a waste of time.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:08

Trump is actually running a great campaign right now. He really is. Yeah. And I think it's it's maybe not on purpose. Like, he's got gag orders, and he's tied up in this trial. And he's got a lot

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:18

of everything is being done to him. It's kind of in his favor.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:21

He's distracted. Agree. And he's like, he can't So it's perfect.

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:24

Plus they're letting the Biden thing play out of which from what I'm reading should

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:27

have last time.

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:28

The Democratic party is very scared the Republicans are gonna really use all this imagery against him, which is very I I agree to the Democrats. I agree that, yeah, it's damaging. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:38

They will and they should.

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:39

I agree.

Steve Palmer [: 00:17:40

And I think, you know, Trump can't really get out over skis like he always does with with saying outrageous things and promises that he can't key. Like, you know, whatever. Just a hyperbole. Yeah. Because he's got these gag orders. And so what he's done is, like, you know, he gets a chance to comment on things like abortion. And look, I don't whatever your take is on this, Trump's taking a very political approach at it. Like, it's the state's issue.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:04

Arizona will fix their law.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:05

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:05

You know, that makes him sort of moderate in the room on always been there too. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:10

That's never changed. If I understand

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:11

Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:12

His history, I don't think he's ever changed.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:13

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:14

And he's doing the same thing with Marjorie Taylor Greene and Yeah. Sort of this Mhmm. This no kite.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:19

He's even talking to Ron DeSantis later.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:21

He's talking to DeSantis. Like, he's sort of Which is amazing. He's playing a political campaign, maybe for the first time ever.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:27

Yeah. As a Well, he wasn't a politician before. But after 4 years in

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:32

the White

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:32

House, he is well.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:33

And, you know, maybe he feels the danger of the like, and what's going on? I mean, this this prosecution up there is lunacy. I mean, it just it it it is a kangaroo court. Yeah. Terrible. And, you know, we we've debated about whether some of the other allegations are have merit. I don't think this one does. I think he'll probably get convicted anyway, because it's New York, and it's fixed to to the extent it can be, I guess.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:57

But Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:18:57

The jurors don't like him, I guess, is what I'm saying.

Norm Murdock [: 00:18:59

Probably not.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:00

I don't mean it's actually rigged. I mean, it's like, you know, you well, you you have a prosecutor who ran on the platform. I'm gonna get Trump. Yeah. Comes up with a crime to get Trump, and now here we are.

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:11

Yeah. So we are.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:11

It's amazing as much as, New Yorkers don't like him why he calls that home base.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:16

It's where he's from, I guess.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:17

Like, you know? Yeah. It's just amazing. Yeah. It's like, why do you stick around? Why don't you go somewhere?

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:22

He effectively has. He's down in Florida.

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:24

Yeah. True. True.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:25

Yeah. He's priced those business. He's property there.

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:28

Yeah. He relocate relocated. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:19:30

Alright. Well, I've I've I've hijacked the show long enough. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:19:33

Well, well, just just to tee off of the, of another one of the Trump cases, the National Archives classified documents case. The judge down there has indefinitely post postponed, the trial proceedings, because it has come out that the FBI mishandled the evidence. And, in fact, Jack Smith filed a brief, himself copying to their mishandling of the evidence. So,

Steve Palmer [: 00:20:03

well, it's more than that, though. So, look, this is a complicated case. I don't care what anytime you're going to trial on a federal case or even some of these bigger state court cases, there's a lot going on. And, you know, what you have to understand, what your people are like, we need to we people that hate Trump, wanna prosecute it now now now. Get it done. Send them off. Get this thing over with before the election because that tells you why they're doing it, first of all, or tells you at least what one of the motives, and they want it done. But having tried cases all over the place, like, you can't get a case like that ready to go to trial.

Steve Palmer [: 00:20:33

There's way too many pretrial issues that just take a long time to resolve. And here, you've got issues that are gonna take review out of a court of appeals in the middle of a while the trial is pending. Like, most of the time, that doesn't happen. Most of the time, I file pretrial motions, and, there's some legal issues. The trial judge will be able to resolve that. But every now and then, you run into cases like Trump's oops. Like like Trump's myriad of cases where they have some the issues themselves that get raised as sort of a subset of the bigger picture require appellate review while the case is going on. We call that interlocutory review, which means, in the middle of the process.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:12

And most of the time in criminal cases, you don't get interlocutory review. So, you know, if if I file a motion to to throw out evidence because of a 4th amendment problem, I don't get to appeal that before my trial. I have to have the trial then appeal that. And so but every now and then, you run into these issues like presidential immunity. You're like, well, we better solve this one.

Norm Murdock [: 00:21:30

Yeah. Better figure that out.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:31

So, they get they get some review in the middle of the trial, and that delays things. And, you know, what the the And

Norm Murdock [: 00:21:37

both sides asked for that.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:38

Both side yeah. Mhmm. And and you have to understand, the one paramount concern is that the defendant gets a fair trial. That is the paramount concern. And if that takes more time to prepare, he should get it. Yeah. If that takes resolution of issues, they need to be resolved. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:21:57

If he can't be down here using his resources to fight this case because he's in trial and another case out of state. The court's gotta consider that in making the ultimate decisions on the case about whether this guy is getting a fair trial. I don't care if it's Donald Trump. I don't care if it's Biden. I don't care if it's Joe Blow from Yeah. Alabama. It don't make any difference. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:22:15

Everybody gets a fair trial, and you can't you can't force a defendant into a trial when they're not ready or able to defend the case.

Norm Murdock [: 00:22:21

So one of the, spin offs of this, New York case in particular, and by that I mean, the the the documents case that Alvin Bragg has has has brought, where Trump's former attorney, Michael Cohen, and Stormy Daniels AKA Stephanie Clifford, her former attorney, Michael Avenatti, who's currently in prison, I think, for 12 years, disbarred, you know, serving hard time for, I believe it was commingling and taking money out of, his clients' accounts. So he has had a bit of a Michael Avenatti that is has had a bit of a, rebirth, he says. He he he found Jesus and whatever.

Steve Palmer [: 00:23:17

I hope he has.

Norm Murdock [: 00:23:18

And now he wants to testify or he's available to testify, has been making public statements as has Cohen, that his former client, Stormy Daniels, is lying and has a hidden agenda. And and, he believes that, you know, she's she never had an affair with Trump and that it was just a a grab for publicity. So it brings up the question mainly directed at Steve because he's the attorney here on the panel. To what extent and under what conditions can an attorney testify against a former client? Because they are both doing that. Cohen, his former client being Trump, Evanati, his former client being, Stephanie Clifford, AKA Stormy Daniels.

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:13

Yeah. So this is a good is a like so many things in law, it all depends. You know, there's so many layers and levels and and nuances to the analysis. But let me just go go big picture here. We'll go mile high. There's something called the attorney client privilege that most people have heard of but don't quite understand. And the attorney client privilege applies when somebody tells me something. I'm the attorney, and I have a client who tells me something even before I'm actually paid or retained.

Steve Palmer [: 00:24:35

So every now and then, like, there's the movie with, Susan Sarandon and the kid where, he gives her a dollar or a nickel or something. So I'm your lawyer. It doesn't even matter. Somebody calls me even looking for a prospective attorney. So, hey, I want you I I wanna interview you to see if I want you to be my lawyer. The things they tell me are still privileged if it's done, in a very specific way. And what that means is, there's nobody else as part of the conversation. So if my client is telling me something and either I'm the only person there or the only other people there are part of my team, that is privileged, things that are said or written.

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:11

K? And I can't repeat those things. Now here's what's interesting. So if a client comes in my office and they say, hey, look, can my mom come in or my dad come into the meeting? They're gonna they're gonna be paying the bill. I will say, no. And the mom and dad get upset because they're like, we're paying. We should be there.

Brett Johnson [: 00:25:28

It's,

Steve Palmer [: 00:25:29

like, yeah, I know you're paying, and you should be there. But if you're in the room and the thing and I'm told something, it's not privileged anymore. So what protects that would be the next question, and that's part 2. And part 2 is something called a secret or a confidence. So things that privileges things that are said or written, confidences are things that I learned during the course and scope of my investigation or representation of the case. Could be things that, Norm, you tell me, even though I'm representing Brett, but you're a witness, so you tell me these things in theory, those are protected by attorney client confidences, and it's a broader, it's got a broader net. Then you would ask, how on earth can these lawyers possibly testify? Or when can I be asked what my client said or what I learned? Well, the one easy one is if it helps my client, so I'm doing it in as a result of representing my client. So I would if I interview Norm and and I'm representing Brett and Norm has very good things to say, well, I'm gonna pick up the phone and say, hey, mister prosecutor, guess what? I got me a great witness in Norm.

Steve Palmer [: 00:26:27

Forget about all his blogs and forget about everything he said at Common Sense Ohio. He's still a great witness. And and, I can share that. Even though I learned it, I can share it because it helps my client. Another exception and the one that we're talking about here is called the crime fraud exception. And, you know, we can be so here's what the US Supreme Court says about it. It is the purpose of the crime fraud exception to the attorney client privilege to assure that the, quote, seal of secrecy, end quote, between lawyer and client does not extend to communications made for the purpose of getting advice for the commission of a fraud or a crime. So, you know, if if Brett's telling me that a bunch of fraudulent stuff, and he's giving me information that he's gonna use, to go commit a future crime, then I can start to bust through the attorney client privilege.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:10

Then you get into this other nuance about whether I have to or whether I can. Alright. So, you know, this comes up a lot in in situations where Brett tells me, yes, I killed a child, and I buried the child out in, the bean field there on State Route 23 heading down to Circleville. And then, you know, Brett is arrested later, and he's convicted, and, and maybe a bunch of other crimes. This is a classic movie scenario. And the and the grieving parents just wanna know where their kid is. And they start interviewing me, and, I can't tell them. Right? Because it's already done.

Steve Palmer [: 00:27:48

Right? It's not like, I cannot if I want even if I wanted to, I couldn't. Now it's a different scenario where if Brett says, yeah, the kid is buried underground, still alive. I might there there there's probably a way around the rules that would permit me to do it, but maybe not require it because that's a crime or a fraud. He's he's he's still committing. So that's how these people are, in theory, getting around this.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:12

Yeah. Well,

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:14

so for for instance, if Stormy Daniels is is lying and if she's testifying about things that happened that, Avenatti was a part of during the representation and it's fraudulent

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:24

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:25

Then in theory, he can get around the privilege.

Norm Murdock [: 00:28:27

Yeah. Because I I think what he got convicted of was stealing some of the 130,000 that she got paid. And, you know, or some sort of advance on a book she wrote or something. And he took some of her money. So, you know, he's gonna probably wanting to testify not only for vengeance, but, you know, he says because he knows of her attempts to break the law.

Steve Palmer [: 00:28:56

Well, and there's another one too. So if a client refuses to pay me or disputes the fee that I collected, I I can then start divulging things I learned during the course and scope scope my representation. And that's some of that could be going on there too. Okay. There could be a lot of things could be true at once.

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:11

Okay. But generally, I mean, what's upsetting to me about and and you'll notice one is pro Trump, one is anti Trump. So, you know, I I pick those because, you know, it balances out what I'm gonna say. And I'm just, you know, super uncomfortable with the idea that, you know, some it's kind of like, you know, confessing if you're a Catholic to a priest or talking to your doctor about your health situation. You know, it's one of these sacred relationships.

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:42

Mhmm.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:43

You know?

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:43

And and a derogation of that is it makes me very uncomfortable.

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:47

Well, has a chilling potentially a chilling effect.

Norm Murdock [: 00:29:49

Yeah. Like, I'm not gonna tell my attorney every.

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:52

Right. Because it could back down the road can turn around and bite me in the butt.

Steve Palmer [: 00:29:57

And think about it. This is already a problem, even without this stuff. So if a client comes to me, this happens to me all the time. Clients tell me most of it. But, you know, for ego, for guilt, for even thinking they're trying to steer the ship of the defense a little bit. They they hold something back. Mhmm. And I always tell my clients, I can protect you from everything I know about.

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:20

Or if there's any chance of protecting you, I have to at least know about it. I cannot protect you from things that I don't know about. Right. And, you know, this this comes up a lot where clients don't tell me everything or it comes out, like, in the middle of trial.

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:33

I was gonna say that that's the last thing you want to happen is, like, we don't wanna be surprised in the middle of trial defending you.

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:38

And it has happened to me Wow. Time and time again.

Norm Murdock [: 00:30:41

That's something. A material fact comes up that you could have known about had they been

Steve Palmer [: 00:30:46

Right. In in most transactions. You know, the client's like, well, I figured if I if if I told you that, then then I was gonna be convicted. Well, what do you think was gonna happen if you didn't tell them?

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:57

Well, exactly. Because both sides have the same information other than they have the information and your your client or your your lawyer doesn't have it. Why would you not tell me?

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:06

Right. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:07

And and I always you you know, there there are things there are things that the clients haven't told me, and then maybe it's worked out. Because you never know if they've told you everything.

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:15

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:15

I'd like to think most of the time they have. But usually, I can smoke it out. Usually, I I spend enough time with my client across the table that I can smoke it out because they're you know, the truth has a rhythm to it. And when thing when the rhythm is all of a sudden a little bit off

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:29

Yeah. You

Steve Palmer [: 00:31:30

start to wonder why. If you skip a measure or 2, using the musical analogy Sure. It doesn't quite fit together.

Norm Murdock [: 00:31:37

Well, I I have some crime stories. But before before I get to the crime story of a little piece of legislation that's, I mean, happily bipartisan. So this, cell phone, ban or limits, we're not clear what the rule is finally going to be, but it could be a ban. In Ohio Public Schools, house bill 250, it passed both the house and the senate unanimously, which is, like, amazing. And it's on governor DeWine's desk. He wanted this in his state of the state, speech back in whatever it was, April or whenever he gave his state of the state. He, he wanted a legislation empowering Department of Education to create model policy that then the 800 school districts in Ohio can adopt for themselves, either limiting, in some way or outright banning, k through 12 cell phone use

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:40

in school. And

Brett Johnson [: 00:32:42

Doesn't doesn't this already exist?

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:44

Well, it's a school of the school of the school of parochial schools. Why do we exist?

Steve Palmer [: 00:32:48

Law for this?

Brett Johnson [: 00:32:49

And it

Brett Johnson [: 00:32:49

I I that's where I'm going with it too.

Norm Murdock [: 00:32:51

Because some some school boards testified in front of these committees that they feel like they don't have the authority in law to do this. So this

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:03

No. They feel like they don't have the balls in law to

Brett Johnson [: 00:33:05

do They

Brett Johnson [: 00:33:05

some because it's their

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:06

Some do. Yeah. Some do to answer Brett.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:09

If I'm a teacher

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:10

Most don't.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:11

If I'm a teacher Yeah. And I perceive this as a problem. Yeah. There's a big box on my desk.

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:18

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:18

And every cell phone comes in and gets placed in the box before class. And they would hate me. All that mister Palmer,

Brett Johnson [: 00:33:24

he's a

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:24

little dick.

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:25

That's the parochial school policy. So I can go back, you know, 20 well, 15 years with my 2 sons attending, high school and grade school parochial. That was a policy. You could not have that phone

Brett Johnson [: 00:33:39

on your

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:39

It's a little different. Yeah. They're going back. I mean And

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:41

to be in the locker.

Steve Palmer [: 00:33:42

I'm willing to accept that there's a difference in time even in the last 10 years. You know, cell phones have become so ubiquitous that it's like, you know, and they're small and they're and and kids are a lot of times are using them for their schoolwork because they forget their iPads or whatever they're supposed to have. So but I I'm with you. I I would just say not in my time.

Norm Murdock [: 00:33:59

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:00

So why can't every teacher just do that?

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:02

Again because they're afraid.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:03

Yeah. We're afraid to tell we're afraid to use that one word sentence. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:07

No. No. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:09

I guess, well, because we already indoctrinated the kids to have iPads in their hands. So they're already glued to a screen. Right. And I guess I go to the opposite end too. It's like, okay. I think yes.

Norm Murdock [: 00:34:20

And didn't Apple even give those away at once?

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:23

Like, we won't Pretty much Apple was giving them so

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:25

they Google. Yeah. Right. The schools that gave Google, the schools that Apple get yeah. Exactly.

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:29

I I think we're taking away a measure of security as well too because if, you know, again, somebody storming a school I think the more phones the better.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:39

Well that's a that's a thought.

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:40

I I you know to certain I I there's a No. Look.

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:43

A

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:43

balance. There's a thought there. Is it better to have every kid so I I would think that I'm gonna come down on the side of I don't care. I want the cell phones in the box coming in.

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:53

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:34:54

Because the statistically, a school shooting is so I mean, it's such an astronomical thing. And this is not to people are gonna cut this out and say, you know, these things have never happened. Oh, okay. But but time and time again, you know, you're gonna have a distraction every single day. I wasn't allowed to chew gum in school. I mean

Norm Murdock [: 00:35:10

I mean, Upper Arlington yesterday got a call.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:13

They did. There was a big

Norm Murdock [: 00:35:14

That's right. And they and they and they sent police to reinforce the, resource officers at every Upper Arlington location. They did not shut down the schools and and the kids did not go home. But, you know, yeah. Scary thing.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:29

Well, kids couldn't get in. So I had, you know, my son goes to, you know, he's away in the first part of the day, and then he comes back to school. And I was wondering if he was gonna be able to get back in. By the time he would have had to come back, it I think it was done. But there was a perimeter around the high school. You know, the the the shooting threat was called into Hastings Middle School. They're in Reed Road on Upper Arlington, across from Wellington. And, the message I got from the school was that there was a perimeter around all the schools.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:56

People couldn't come and go for a while.

Norm Murdock [: 00:35:57

Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:35:59

And look, appropriate response.

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:01

Well, in our day

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:02

Oh, yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:02

If you got sick at school and you need to contact your parents You're gonna make a phone call. Hand. You you walk to the principal's office and you use the school phone to call your parents.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:11

Well, this is so this is another segue into a bigger topic, and it has to do again with the degradation of our democracy. And I'll link it all up. Just bear with me. Yeah. You know, the the parents, the kids, all the opponents of this are gonna say, what about an emergency?

Norm Murdock [: 00:36:29

Yeah. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:30

I once, believe it or not, went to a therapist talking about sort of like a professional life coach. Sure. Talking about my personal life and how I was so succumbed by my work. You know, I can't let it go at night. It's like a 247 job. I represent people accused of crimes. That means I always gotta be on call. And, you know, because and I was complaining.

Steve Palmer [: 00:36:49

I said, why don't you just put your cell phone in the kitchen drawer when you get home and turn it off? I was like, yeah, but, you know, what if there's an emergency? And he just said, when's the last time there's a real emergency in your life? I was like, you know, it took me a minute to figure that out. Right. And it's like that you couldn't handle some other way.

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:04

Right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:05

And, you know, but we have redefined emergency to fit whatever we want to do at the at the moment. True.

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:11

And

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:12

Yep. And the the the one of the big things that emerged during COVID with this notion of emergency power. And we basically create an emergency out of everything. And our kids are taught that everything's an emergency. You know, if they're and they need to be able to call somebody to help them fix it. I think I became a capable adult human male because I had to figure out emergencies on my own. Yeah. You know, I didn't so I had a bad day at school.

Steve Palmer [: 00:37:36

I didn't get to, like, text my mom Well and say, Joey said I was a no good, rotten idiot.

Norm Murdock [: 00:37:41

The the cell phone thing, according to the testimony I read, you know, on the on the article that in the article that prompted me to bring this, was, teachers saying and administrators saying the corrosive effect of social media in particular in a school where somebody gets, you know, or creates with AI a photo of of of another student doing something or dressed in a certain way or undressed or whatever. Yeah. And then that gets shipped around in real time.

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:16

Whether the schools are whether the phones at school or that happens after school. I I mean, I think those things, it's a non sequitur a little bit. Or one doesn't necessarily eliminate the other. But if

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:23

you don't get to amp it up while you're there at school, it's it's less arguably. Maybe. And they're you know, Jordan Peterson has said the the psych. Is he a psychologist? Yeah. Psychiatry. Psychologist. He has he has said that the the the largest mass brain research project that that we've ever launched is allowing our children to be immersed in social media. That that it is Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:38:57

There's no there's no equivalent to this.

Norm Murdock [: 00:38:58

Right? It's the biggest experiment with no controls, and really parents basically oblivious to the downsides of social media.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:07

Right. Me included. It's like I I mean, look, I have

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:10

The kids are just getting they're they're they're they're suicides and

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:14

As an adult terrible things. I have made a choice not to engage in social media. Now I'll scroll through Facebook here or there Yeah. If we're doing stuff for work or our our show.

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:23

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:24

But, like, I don't even post pictures of my family. I don't post like, I don't I don't Yeah. And and there's a reason for it. Yeah. When I when I first and I I resisted Facebook, probably, like, some like, I don't need that stupid Facebook and

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:35

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:36

Or Instagram or all those. But when I started, there was a time I started to post some stuff, and I found myself looking regularly for likes and approval. Mhmm. And I I knew immediately, this isn't good.

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:52

Well, Peterson says that's a dopamine thing.

Steve Palmer [: 00:39:55

It it thought it is. And looking back, that's exactly what

Brett Johnson [: 00:39:57

it was.

Norm Murdock [: 00:39:57

That when you get these likes or when you get the thumbs up, it it's it's a little

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:01

shot. Meaningless.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:02

And so kids pursue that all day long. Right. They they wanna be liked and admired.

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:08

But my point

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:08

is, like, I recognize that

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:08

as an adult.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:08

Yeah. And it's addictive. And I had studied a lot

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:10

of addictive

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:11

behaviors in my career

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:11

and personally and elsewhere. It's like so I recognize that as an adult. Yeah. And it's addictive. And I had

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:11

studied a lot of addictive behaviors in

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:14

my career and personally and elsewhere. It's like so I recognize that as a huge huge, danger zone.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:22

Yeah. And think of that. Their brains are undeveloped. They're they're little kids.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:26

That's right. So seeking approval from the vast unspoken, like, ether.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:31

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:31

That like, there is no end to it. There's no end to it. You can continue to post and continue to get it, and you never learn how to function without it. So I agree, but I don't think banning cell phones in schools addresses that at all. I think that's a complete nonsense. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:42

Because because looks like I saw a quote from Houston or something, and he's he's mentioned this a couple of times. And once when he was doing the the tour about the cell phones, and he was stopped at a Dublin school, it's like it's, you know, him saying government needs to help parents.

Steve Palmer [: 00:40:56

Makes me chill.

Norm Murdock [: 00:40:57

And I saw

Brett Johnson [: 00:40:58

that I'm probably misquoting it a little bit.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:00

You said it out my way because you know how much that hurts.

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:02

It's like

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:03

but saw

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:04

that. That's an early

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:05

it takes a village push

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:07

In essence, what he was and he said he said that a couple of times ago and okay. Great. This isn't an easy fix. Why aren't you why aren't you all if you're gonna do that, let's be helping parents get their kids to school, Do the whole gamut first.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:20

Simple. If you're the school But how? Like, this is like, I don't need the government's help at all with my kids.

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:27

And that it really bothered me.

Steve Palmer [: 00:41:29

It only gets in the way. Yeah. It only gets in the way.

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:32

And and

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:32

that's why I can't I don't necessarily I'd like to create the powers already there in the school systems. I I just do.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:39

So so Steve, I would have

Brett Johnson [: 00:41:41

the balls to do it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:41:41

I would just I would just argue with you on this aspect that by banning it at school with social media being, in mind is I think the buzz is way bigger when somebody posts something live during school hours because that causes a reaction

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:05

Fair enough.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:05

In real time.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:06

I would tell you this.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:07

Like, yo, look at my shoes.

Brett Johnson [: 00:42:09

Sure.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:09

I just got $500 Trump shoes.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:12

We don't need a state law for this.

Brett Johnson [: 00:42:14

No. No.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:14

But Just if if the school just needs to say, you can't have your cell phones.

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:19

Yeah. But you know public schools operate by virtue of of Fine. You know what I'm saying.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:23

Whatever. Yeah. But they

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:24

they need a sanction.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:25

Even even if that's true. Even if what you said is true, there's an amplification of it. That's a matter of degree. It's not gonna stop it. And No. It it's it's a it's a That

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:32

may help.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:33

It's weak tea to use as justification for such a law. I I think there are better reasons for the law they could use. The one you just mentioned is that schools don't feel like they have the authority to do it themselves, so we're gonna ban it. That's all you need to say. Yeah. But to to say that that's somehow gonna curb social media and then to tie it with this notion that the parents need help to be able to say no

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:50

to this.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:51

Well, it'll

Norm Murdock [: 00:42:51

curb it for 6 hours. And it and Yeah. And I and and the most pernicious six hours.

Steve Palmer [: 00:42:56

And then when are the kit so here's the other thing. What are they gonna do? Send kids through metal detectors?

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:03

Well, I guess I mean, it's like anything else. If they find drugs on you,

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:07

it's cool. Search kids for because because what I'm gonna do, if I'm gonna post something on social media, it's like grabbing a cigarette at lunchtime. I'm gonna go in the bathroom and do it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:13

Right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:14

So it's it's not gonna stop it. It's like saying

Brett Johnson [: 00:43:16

it's like saying

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:16

You have kids. No.

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:17

Requiring FFLs for private gun purchases.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:21

Well, you'll have kids narc each other out. It'll happen. Yeah. Well, that's

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:25

gonna have its own chaos.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:25

I would like to point out the the huge irony, you know, the 800 pound elephant.

Steve Palmer [: 00:43:32

The more they realize, the more absurd it is. Anyway.

Norm Murdock [: 00:43:34

The the that the wine he he he wants a cell phone policy, ban or limits. He he can see his way to that to protect children, but he couldn't see his way to signing a bill that that that made illegal gender surgery. I mean I mean I mean I mean you can cut off your breasts or your penis and and transition as a 10 year old, but you can't take a phone

Winston Churchhill [: 00:44:05

to school.

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:06

It's perfectly consistent with what Brett said. The parents need help. And when the government

Norm Murdock [: 00:44:12

Well, not government help. They need psychological help from professionals.

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:16

I agree with that. But, actually, I don't even agree with that. The the the parents need help, so says Was it who said that? Who said?

Brett Johnson [: 00:44:22

You said.

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:23

The the parents need help. That's what these people think, that the government is somehow better at it than the parents. That's And when what what's happened is

Winston Churchhill [: 00:44:33

Well

Steve Palmer [: 00:44:33

then the government gets to take control over things like whether you as a parent should permit your kid to have his genitals cut off or attitude or whatever. And so that's all the same logic. Right? So the parents need help. They don't know that their kid should be a female and we should let him cut his penis off. So we're gonna intervene in that and help the parent make that decision. This is what happens when big brother takes over. And I'm telling you right now Yeah. It is we have we have created not only generations of weak kids.

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:01

Now we're creating generations of weak parents.

Brett Johnson [: 00:45:03

Don't know

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:03

how to say no.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:04

I would say this is a And

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:06

are shamed. In fact, shamed for it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:45:08

Or can look public to the government for the answer.

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:10

So, Steve, I would say there are many cases where because we have feckless, weak, non Winston Churchill parents anymore, that we do need government to, create guardrails. So we have things like kids can't smoke, they can't get tattoos, they can't vote, they can't sign contracts, they can't do

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:32

Not all those things are equal to me. So voting Okay. I mean, look, if I'm if I'm a parent, my kid wants to get a tattoo But

Norm Murdock [: 00:45:38

you almost are saying that we shouldn't be able to pass a law that says parents can't sanction a gender reassignment surgically of their minor students, of their minor children. And I'm all in favor of a law like that. But you seem to be saying We made this. You don't you think that's over control by the government.

Steve Palmer [: 00:45:57

I think it has to be discussed. When the government intervenes into the parent child relationship, and it it has to be discussed. Now maybe a matter of degree, because, look, I agree that no parent should be letting their kid cut off his genitals and go through gender assignment surgeries.

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:14

So that

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:15

I think there's a better way around it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:16

So that's a legislation that DeWine vetoed. And it

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:19

was different for you

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:20

And they overrode him.

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:21

Is it different for you if if, it's a private procedure? So to me, it's like we've got this so inextricably linked to public health care that I'm paying for it as a you know, it's like

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:32

Oh, no. It means no difference to me.

Brett Johnson [: 00:46:34

It means

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:34

no difference

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:34

to me. As far as who

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:35

should just be outlawed. Yes. Look,

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:38

it's it If you can't give a minor a tattoo, you can't take his penis off.

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:44

Well, I think you should be able to give your minor a tattoo. Okay. Or at least there shouldn't be a law saying you can't. I'm not saying that, like, letting the government control that

Brett Johnson [: 00:46:53

The kid

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:53

it's a it's a slippery slope.

Norm Murdock [: 00:46:55

The kid can't make an adult decision when he's a kid.

Steve Palmer [: 00:46:58

And I wouldn't It's just that simple. And I wouldn't let my kid make the decision as a parent. So look, I I'm with you in in spirit on all of this, but I think it also warrants a discussion about the exercise and origin of the government power to do these things.

Brett Johnson [: 00:47:10

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:10

And certainly, it's better at the state level because the state has inherent police power than it is at the federal level. But, it is it is a discussion that needs to happen. And and and the problem is exactly what we're talking about. Just because we made this law, then we can make another one, and then we can make another one, then we can make another one. Where does it stop? Because sooner or later Well, it stops the power to make that law gets turned on

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:31

you for things

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:31

you don't like.

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:32

Okay. The answer is it stops at adulthood. After adulthood, you can cut your penis off.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:38

Well, it's the same power that says And

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:39

there has to be a bright line.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:41

It's the same power that says the government can say, you can't stop the kid from cutting his penis off. It's the same exercise of power.

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:48

Yes. It is. Yeah. That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:47:49

And that's what bothers me.

Norm Murdock [: 00:47:50

So I I like I like laws where you get certain rights, and talking about laws involve involving children. You get certain rights at a certain age, and I think that's totally appropriate.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:03

Yeah. I and I'm not I'm not like I said, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you other than to say, there has to be a careful discussion. You can't just say we're gonna pass that law. You have to say, should we pass that law? And why are we passing that law? Just because we disagree. Then you have to say, well, if we give the government the authority to pass this law, then what's next? And how do we stop that? What is the standard that we that we view this stuff with? And and let's be cautious, because I think now we've created this scenario where it's so easy to say, well, the government will ban it. And it doesn't first of all, it doesn't first of all, it doesn't stop it because banning cell phones isn't gonna prevent cell phones at school. It's just gonna drive them underground. But

Brett Johnson [: 00:48:38

what what's the next step saying, okay, which has already been discussed, you can't wear that to

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:43

school. Yeah. Draw dress codes. See see to me, dress codes are different.

Brett Johnson [: 00:48:47

Oh, really? Okay.

Steve Palmer [: 00:48:48

Dress codes are handled at the school level. Oh, right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:48:51

But then they stop. What I'm saying is the overreach. Okay. So the government says you can't have so so this is the government saying, the state comes in and say, okay. Do you can't wear that? You have to wear I

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:00

would be very suspicious if there were a state level law that says kids have to wear x y z to school or can't wear x y z to school. State. And that were not exercised at school level.

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:09

I think you're I think you're conflating, if you will. I I don't mean this in terms of a logical thing. But I think you're somewhat reacting to how such bans work on adults. The libertarian in you is coming out. I'm very sympathetic with that. But I think children require the protection of the state because there are bad parents. There are dumb parents. There are parents who are so goofy and so dumb.

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:38

And now there's children who are now in their twenties who regret what their parents decided for them. I understand. But now protecting

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:47

I agree. A girl

Norm Murdock [: 00:49:48

who no longer has her breasts

Steve Palmer [: 00:49:50

Protecting the children is now showing up with the opposite impact of what you're talking about. So now under say, there's an abuse neglect dependent this is happening in California, for instance.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:01

How much protection the kids from?

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:03

Your kid. Well, because you and I not you and I. You and California disagree on what's right for the kids. So if you don't impose or if you don't permit your kid to undergo this transgender treatment, then they're gonna find you or they're gonna say the kid is either being abused, neglected, or dependent upon the state for care.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:20

Yeah. So that's why the Ohio law makes so much sense. It takes that argument completely off the table. Because you can't make that decision for your kid.

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:29

But Alright. So they're the law. That's why I say, in spirit, I love it. I love it. But we've let the government in so tightly.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:36

Do you think there's gonna be a little wiggle room where

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:39

The camel is in the tent.

Norm Murdock [: 00:50:40

Where somebody comes home, says, daddy, I wanna be a girl. And daddy can decide that with his wife. They can decide to let a 10 year old boy get surgery.

Steve Palmer [: 00:50:51

The the question I am grappling with is what's the government power to say no to that? And how can that power later be used in a different way that I don't like? So I I I don't think that they're look. I I agree with you a 100%. I don't I can envision no circumstance where a kid should have gender changing surgery

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:07

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:08

As a minor.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:08

And so you're you're worried about some unnamed thing

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:11

that we're running. I am totally fine with the law prohibiting that. Yeah. I'm totally fine with

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:15

it. Okay.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:16

It has to come with a discussion about what's next when the law swings back the other way where now it's required if the kid wants it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:21

Well, we can talk about that.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:22

Well, that's the problem. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:23

Right? So we can have

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:24

that too. So that's what's going on. The opposite of that is going on. So look

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:28

Well, not with me in California. I don't

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:30

know what to say. To me. It seems to me the better the better focus is to say, why why is there why are parents even thinking this is a good idea?

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:40

Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:41

Like, really, why why why is this a good idea to anybody?

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:44

Right. And They need psychological help. That that's that's all I can say.

Brett Johnson [: 00:51:48

That certainly needs to be part of the process of being okay. If

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:51

psychologists are promoting this nonsense.

Brett Johnson [: 00:51:53

Yeah. I mean, there's a dysphoria.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:55

A lot of them are.

Brett Johnson [: 00:51:56

Some are. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:51:56

Right. And some are. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 00:51:57

Right. A lot of them are. I wouldn't take my kid to Children's Hospital with that problem right now. No no chance in hell.

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:02

Well, it's illegal now. I mean, Ohio passed a law. You can't do it.

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:06

Children's hospital can't do the surgery, but they can do the psychology.

Brett Johnson [: 00:52:09

Oh, yeah. That's a problem. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:52:13

Yeah. Because we're in such a murky murky waters with this right now at the beginning stages of it. You don't know the best place to go to to help your child.

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:20

Let let me be clear.

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:21

You know.

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:21

I am arguing academically. I do not favor any kid getting gender transition surgery. And I suppose if Ohio law prohibits it, I'm in favor of that. But but Yeah. I'm always very suspicious of government involvement in personal lives.

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:35

That's good. We should be we should be suspicious. So

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:39

Because the same sword can be turned on you.

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:41

Let's talk about a different kind of rule and this is kind of crazy. The new NFL I mean, we talked about the tackling thing. But did you guys hear that they have a new rule? A whole different procedure on kickoffs. I think

Brett Johnson [: 00:52:56

I heard something about this. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:52:57

We talked about this, didn't we?

Norm Murdock [: 00:52:58

No. Not the kickoffs. Maybe not the kickoffs. We talked about the tackling.

Brett Johnson [: 00:53:01

The tackling. Okay.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:02

The kickoffs.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:02

I knew about the kickoffs.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:03

They're gonna be 5 yards from each other. Yeah. Right? If the kicker kicks so so both teams will be lining up 5 yards from each other on the receivers, 30:30 yard line.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:21

So the the kick happens back at the where where does the kick happen? At the kick 35. 35, and then then so the kicker's way back, and then the the line is up there.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:30

The line so the receivers the receiving teams on the 30 yard line, the kicking team is on the 35 yard line of the receiver side of the field. The if the ball goes into the end zone on a fly, it comes back out to the 40.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:47

That's been that way for a while now.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:49

If I thought it was

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:50

In college, I think. In college, I think it's coming out

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:52

to the Yeah. Okay. That so now

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:53

Or maybe not it's the 40. It goes all the way to 40? 40.

Norm Murdock [: 00:53:57

It goes all the way to the 40.

Steve Palmer [: 00:53:59

So they're encouraging, actually, on

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:01

the turn. Sorry. If it goes out of bounds, it goes all the way to 40.

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:04

Oh, not a bounce kick. That's different.

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:05

If it

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:06

if it goes through the end zone, it's a touch back to the 20. Right?

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:08

If it rolls into the end zone, okay, because the receiving team did not pick it up, it comes back out to the 20. If

Brett Johnson [: 00:54:17

it it

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:18

if it goes if it flies into the end zone, it comes back to the 30, not the 40. Where it goes to the 40 is if they kick it out of bounds.

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:26

So they're trying to encourage a return.

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:29

Yes. They're hoping there would be more return scores. Yeah. And less of this hyper running at each other

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:37

for necessarily disagree with this, though. I I look. I mean, this kind

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:40

of rules saying it's a Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:54:41

No. No. No.

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:42

I'm just bringing up that there is a change.

Steve Palmer [: 00:54:44

These these kind of rules are are always hard to swallow because it's a change from what we're used to.

Brett Johnson [: 00:54:47

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:47

Yeah. But no on side kick unless you declare that you're doing it openly. Which is You can only do it in the Q4 and you have to be losing.

Brett Johnson [: 00:54:57

That I heard. That I heard. Okay.

Norm Murdock [: 00:54:59

So the on side kick thing is totally different.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:01

I don't like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:55:03

Because that's such a great tricky play.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:05

Having played college football and having been on kickoff team, I was injured twice pretty substantially on kickoff. I was like the attack guy. My job was to stand right next to the kicker. I didn't have to stay in my lane. My job was just to go get the football. They're like, you go get that football as fast as and and fast as you can. And I was pretty fast, and I could just go and, you know, I got whacked in the head a few times. I, I,

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:29

So to that end,

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:30

I got a stinger that never went away to this day.

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:33

Neither team is allowed to leave their spots on the line until the ball either hits the field or is caught by the receivers. Okay. So, they're not they're not allowed to, like, start running.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:46

Gonna be difficult to end. That's gonna be difficult to receive and enforce.

Winston Churchhill [: 00:55:49

Wow. They're

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:50

they're gonna have to hold themselves

Brett Johnson [: 00:55:51

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:51

That's gonna be at least

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:52

one foot on that line.

Steve Palmer [: 00:55:54

So it's just a change. We'll see how it plays.

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:55

And there's no fair catch.

Brett Johnson [: 00:55:57

Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:55:57

So they're encouraging returns. With that. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 00:55:59

They're encouraging returns. Fair catch.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:00

So it might be fun.

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:01

Yeah. Yeah. I I still

Brett Johnson [: 00:56:03

say we go back to leather helmets.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:05

Well, look. I'm with you. I'm not I I I don't disagree.

Brett Johnson [: 00:56:08

Look like that's crazy, but it's like it's like power brakes versus manual brakes.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:12

Yep. When you have when you have the perception of protection like that Yes. You're willing to do things that cause dance like boxers with bigger gloves. You know? It still does damage. It just does it a lot.

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:20

I don't

Brett Johnson [: 00:56:21

know. It it mean, facetiously, but at the same time, it's like think about the process of that. It's like

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:25

getting beaten up by a phone book.

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:26

Right. Right. Right. The rule passed 29 to 3 amongst the owners. The dissenting owners were the Raiders, Packers, and 40 niners. In it, and the rule change took 9 and a half pages.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:39

Interesting.

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:40

So those special those special teams coaches, man, they got a lot of work to do this.

Brett Johnson [: 00:56:44

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure.

Norm Murdock [: 00:56:46

I mean, they're gonna have to retrain the brain.

Steve Palmer [: 00:56:48

Well, they gotta even figure out how it's gonna go. So they're gonna have to just line people up and say, how is this gonna work? Right. You know, let's just play this out a 100 times and see if

Brett Johnson [: 00:56:56

she would

Brett Johnson [: 00:56:56

have then he how does it evolve into n c two a and the high school?

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:00

Yeah. If you think about

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:01

it. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:57:02

Right? It has to.

Brett Johnson [: 00:57:03

Right?

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:03

Yeah. This is, this is

Brett Johnson [: 00:57:04

a mindset walking onto a pro field.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:06

And like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with this. That's interesting. I don't understand the onside kick part of it, but I this is, I don't necessarily disagree. I I mean, I understand there's an onside kick ramification because if you're lined up on the 30 and the kicker's on your own 35, then you can't really do an onside kick unless so everybody knows what you're trying to do.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:23

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:24

So, I mean, I it basically takes the onside kick out of the game.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:27

You know, I I think we're gonna get to a point with these rules. Clearly, some of this is to lessen the violence and the injuries. But I think we're gonna get to the point where, probably a tag on the quarterback will be enough to tackle him.

Brett Johnson [: 00:57:43

You may

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:43

be right.

Norm Murdock [: 00:57:44

Like, you know, if you just touch the other quarterback. Yeah. You he's down.

Steve Palmer [: 00:57:49

Brett, yeah, I think you're on. I've said this about football for years. As the equipment evolves and creates more protection, the it's you're not protecting people. What you're really doing is enhancing the force of the impact. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:58:01

You know,

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:01

it's like

Brett Johnson [: 00:58:02

Are you gonna get in, NFL that the the guys that love NFL and the appearance, they're gonna go, I'm watching rugby.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:08

Screw it. Screw it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:58:09

I'm watching rugby. Yeah. Exactly.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:11

Ben Bayman. So I

Brett Johnson [: 00:58:11

don't know if you guys heard this that, there is a new cruise line set up to sail in from Florida next year called the nude cruise. Oh, for god's sake. So the big nude boat cruise, which allows passengers to bear all, yes, even at the buffet.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:27

Oh, god. Jesus.

Brett Johnson [: 00:58:28

At the buffet. Oh, god. It's set to sail.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:32

Yeah. Wasn't there national nude gardening day last week?

Brett Johnson [: 00:58:36

Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Exactly. So so, yeah, it ranges so rate rate the rates for an inside cabin start at $2, and then stretch all the way to $33,000 for the top room on the ship, a Haven 3 bedroom garden villa. You know what that is.

Brett Johnson [: 00:58:51

Yeah. The sex penthouse. Exactly.

Steve Palmer [: 00:58:53

I could barely afford it.

Norm Murdock [: 00:58:57

But when it said you

Brett Johnson [: 00:58:58

could go to the buffet nude that not that I have any interest at all, but I saw that going, how in the hell can they do that?

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:04

Oh, god.

Brett Johnson [: 00:59:04

How can you go to the buffet nude?

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:08

Alright. Look. I mean, I can just envision a bunch of saggy

Brett Johnson [: 00:59:11

Oh my god.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:12

Come on.

Brett Johnson [: 00:59:13

You think it's gonna be great, but no. No. We're not. No. No. No. No.

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:16

No. No. It ain't gonna be that. This isn't a playboy cruise.

Brett Johnson [: 00:59:18

No. The sausages and the buffet may look better than what's hanging around. Exactly. Well Or the watermelons or the melons, and the buffet's gonna

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:26

look better than what's walking around.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:28

Leave it there. I saw that

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:29

going, oh my god.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:30

I I have No. No. No. No. No. No. No. I have to, I have to throw this out.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:35

I I'm very distraught like a lot of ex volunteers for the and participant with the Boy Scouts of America.

Brett Johnson [: 00:59:42

I

Steve Palmer [: 00:59:42

saw that. I saw that.

Norm Murdock [: 00:59:44

So they're now calling themselves scouting America. And I and I and I go back to why why are the Boy Scouts bankrupt? And why as an organization are they at, like, a third of what the membership used to be. And there's all these new groups. The Mormons created their own Boy Scout organization. And it's because of sex scandals. And the sex scandals were not between the den mothers and the boys. It was between pedophile gay guys and the boys. Adult leaders, mainly.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:19

Look.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:20

And hey. I think there's more I

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:21

think there's more to the decline than that. I think there's a lot more to decline.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:25

Sex scandals that drove this.

Brett Johnson [: 01:00:26

It's tens of thousands of suits, isn't it?

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:29

So what they did, Steve, in their wokeness, right, instead of addressing the problem of pedophilia, whether it's heterosexual or gay, instead of addressing screening of adult volunteers and rules preventing gay men camping with boys,

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:48

they think this is years ago.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:50

Right. But now here's the fruition.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:52

I don't think because you're a gay man, you shouldn't be able to be in the Boy Scouts.

Norm Murdock [: 01:00:55

I didn't say that. I said camping.

Steve Palmer [: 01:00:57

I don't think these should be prevented from camping because I think being a gay man attracted to another fully adult male is different than being a gay man attracted to kids. So you're are you I think those are 2

Brett Johnson [: 01:01:02

different things. Okay. Okay. I I

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:03

got you. But except now you're gonna have to figure out who they're attracted to.

Brett Johnson [: 01:01:10

If you're

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:11

gonna endeavor to do it, then you have to endeavor to do it. Look, a pedophile doesn't have to be a gay man.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:14

So let me let me ask you this, dude. So are you in favor of heterosexual, fully grown men camping with little girls?

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:23

It happens. It does not happen. Guys or whatever or what's that?

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:27

It does not happen.

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:27

My my I have a buddy that went on camping trips with their daughters.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:30

There's no way he camped in the same campground with little girls. There's no way. Yeah. It's not The

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:36

Indian princesses or whatever it was. Yeah. He did it. Wow. They would go on overnight camping trips.

Brett Johnson [: 01:01:40

Well, I I I I was gonna say

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:42

It flies in the face of the sex scandal.

Brett Johnson [: 01:01:44

Well, it's it's the it's the filtering that you gotta figure out. I I guess I I don't know. Yeah. Not every guy is a pedophile though. That's the thing. Or would go after a young girl.

Brett Johnson [: 01:01:54

You're not

Steve Palmer [: 01:01:54

a I don't know.

Brett Johnson [: 01:01:55

But but I see your point though. But it's but no. I mean Okay.

Norm Murdock [: 01:01:59

Here's a really bright filter.

Brett Johnson [: 01:02:01

Those words I wouldn't wanna be there doing it though.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:04

I would

Brett Johnson [: 01:02:04

not wanna be there.

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:05

So who are attracted to members of the same sex of excuse me, of the of either the same sex or the opposite sex. If you're attracted to the children that you're taking on the campout, if you're attracted to that gender not necessarily the children, but just to that gender, so I'm attracted to women Somebody who's gay might be attracted to men. Okay? Neither of us should be going on a campout overnight in the same camping area.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:35

I disagree with this. I think I think I think the vast majority of fathers and daughters can go on a camping trip without any concerns at all. The problem with pedophilia is

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:46

Well, they're not attacking their daughters.

Steve Palmer [: 01:02:48

Well, they're daughter's friends then. The the problem with pedophilia is that people don't always know and it's not, you know, it's this That's right. It's it's this creepiness. So I like I

Norm Murdock [: 01:02:58

So why did the boys now why did they have that rule then for all those years?

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:02

What was the rule?

Norm Murdock [: 01:03:03

The rule was you couldn't be a gay scout master and go on a campout.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:07

I don't know why they had the rule. You'd have to ask the boys Well,

Norm Murdock [: 01:03:09

clearly, because they didn't want gay scout masters at nighttime being associated with boys. And I Because they're attracted to men. So again, that kind of And boys are ungrown men.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:19

That kind of rule.

Norm Murdock [: 01:03:21

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:22

I don't I don't think it's I don't think that rule is effective at all. I'm just trying to think this through.

Norm Murdock [: 01:03:26

So So so if

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:27

I'm a gay man, and I'm outwardly gay, and I have a I have a, husband, And he and and we are raising a son.

Norm Murdock [: 01:03:33

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:03:34

And I can't I don't think it would be fair to say I can't go on the scouting trip, because I happen to be a gay man. Because I think that I think it's an equally, if not more plausible scenario, that I, I'm outwardly a heterosexual man married, but I'm also a creepy pedophile that likes to creep on kids, particularly boys. I don't think there's any way to discern that. So I I don't think one, is associated with the other. And I think, and and really what you're gonna get is gay men going on these trips that aren't gonna tell anybody they're gay, so you're not gonna know anyway.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:08

Steve, the sex scandals are about gay pedophilia. That's what it is. That's what it's It's about That's what drove them in their bankruptcy.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:16

But you're taking half of that.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:17

It's the same as the church.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:18

All of it. So just because you're gay doesn't mean you're a pedophile.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:21

No. It doesn't. But you have lots of lines like that. Right? So just because I'm a convicted felon. Right?

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:29

So I'm if I'm a pedophile

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:30

gonna use a gun to kill somebody, but we have that law.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:33

If I'm a pedophile attracted to young boys, I'm not gonna disclose that I'm I'm gay, and I'm gonna find a way to creep into it no matter what. I've represented plenty of them. And that's what they do. Right. So the rule the rule is a political rule. It's not gonna stop it.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:46

Well, I don't think it's a political rule. I think it's a child's sake.

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:49

It's a it's a theater rule.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:51

But when I

Steve Palmer [: 01:04:51

I understand what they're trying to do, but it's gonna

Brett Johnson [: 01:04:53

be a thing.

Norm Murdock [: 01:04:53

They they the the wokeness undid it. They have no such rule. That that that's my point. That's my point. I think

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:00

the wokeness I think that I think there's something else going on. I think the wokeness has is getting to a point where they're gonna say pedophilia, well, that's just how you were born. You know, that you should have

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:12

Oh, for sure.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:13

That the wokeness is

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:14

talking about the the Man Boy Love normalize pedophilia. Trying to normalize.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:18

Absolutely. And that's

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:19

a different scenario,

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:24

which obviously is is a horrible scenario because it's not normal.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:28

Well, just let's let's walk through the fact pattern. The fact is that the Boy Scouts are bankrupt in large part, almost almost completely due to sex scandal lawsuits involving man on boy sex.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:45

I don't I don't know if that's

Brett Johnson [: 01:05:48

true or not. Well, that is true. Think there's

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:48

just a general lack of interest in Boy Scouts too.

Norm Murdock [: 01:05:50

No. No. Let's stipulate that that's what it is because that is what I'm not gonna screw you on that. The thousands of cases.

Steve Palmer [: 01:05:56

I think I for sure. But Yeah. I that look. I didn't get involved in scouting. I went to a couple meetings, and I looked around. I thought it was all a little bit weird, and I didn't do it. Okay. So I hadn't I didn't even think about sex scandals.

Brett Johnson [: 01:06:07

Yeah. Well We didn't either when when, not the Hayden's age did.

Norm Murdock [: 01:06:11

The Mormon church created its own scouting operation. They took about a third of the scouts with them when they did that. And then scouts lost more because they've had to sell campgrounds. They in order to finance these losses that they've suffered in these, sex predator cases, they are a shadow of the organization. And the 2 guys who really kicked the whole thing off was Bob Gates and Rex Tillerson when they were on the board in the presidency of Boy Scouts. They're the ones that changed the policy to allow gay scout masters to go on campouts. So when you've got a scandal involving man on boy sex and then your reaction to it is to formalize

Steve Palmer [: 01:06:59

Couldn't it be something else though? Couldn't it be

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:02

But it's not saying this is what the cases are about. No.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:04

I know what the cases are about. Okay. But I we're talking about the purpose or the reasons people aren't getting involved in scouting. So look

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:11

Well, I won't get involved now.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:12

Scouting was was a very traditional thing. Right? A sort of a Christian thing. Right? It was based on Judeo Christian values Absolutely. Of scouting. Right?

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:20

Yeah. So

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:21

So now all of a sudden, if you're gonna allow gay people there, your Christian families are gonna say, wait a minute.

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:26

That's not the organization I signed up for.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:27

That's not what I signed up for. Their value structure has changed.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:30

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:31

And maybe that's what I don't know. It turned me off by scouts or whatever it is, but I don't think one is necessary. Are they related? Maybe. But I don't think there's related

Brett Johnson [: 01:07:39

as well.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:40

To take this argument

Steve Palmer [: 01:07:41

they've changed their value system to the point where where parents who would be in who would be interested in getting involved in scouts are no longer interested in getting involved in, and that's they're going with their church instead.

Norm Murdock [: 01:07:51

Yeah. To color such a policy as anti gay is ridiculous in my opinion. If I was gay and I had a son, I would not want my son going on campouts with a gay scoutmaster because I don't know the guy. I don't know if he's really just interested in men or if he's also interested in boys. And so I don't

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:13

So that wouldn't bother me as much?

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:15

It's not a gay, anti gay thing.

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:16

I I get it. No. I get it.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:17

It's an attractiveness thing whether it's heterosexual

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:21

Coming the other way coming the other way, it was pitched that way. So I I we're on the same page there. But as far as, like, if if I if there's a guy who's outwardly gay that's at the scouting camp, that wouldn't bother me so much. I'm worried about the guy who's not outwardly gay, who's creeping around. Obviously. So what bothers me more about that is the scouts change their value structure, and they change their their their their system of values. And, you know, the people who were attracted to scouts before aren't anymore.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:50

So so if we so so

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:51

It's supposed to be a family Christian environment, and it's not anymore because they opened it up to all these weird things.

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:56

So let's analogy I think

Steve Palmer [: 01:08:57

from the perspective of

Norm Murdock [: 01:08:59

of the Philippines. You and I are both strong second amendment advocates. We both believe people should be able to walk around with a legally obtained gun, either displayed or not displayed, you know, concealed or not concealed. We both think that. At least, I think you think that. You you could disagree. So, obviously, you and I are much more concerned about those citizens that would use that gun for a nefarious purpose. I so, yeah, I get you.

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:27

I mean, what you're saying makes common sense. Obviously, I'm more worried about that. But where I can take at least some of the predators off the table is to take the ones that acknowledge that they're attracted to the same sex that they're taking camping. And that that that wouldn't be men taking girls on campouts. That would be women taking boys on campouts. That would be

Steve Palmer [: 01:09:49

Well, how about basketball coaches?

Brett Johnson [: 01:09:50

But how do you filter that, though?

Norm Murdock [: 01:09:52

Well, I'm talking about campouts.

Brett Johnson [: 01:09:53

Okay. But can't so but how do you feel how do you filter that though? How do you stop them from going? What what what's the what's the parameters?

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:00

Only when they acknowledge and, you know, it's it's

Brett Johnson [: 01:10:03

So you have a chilling effect and they go and they don't tell you then.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:06

That's right. Yeah. I mean You have a don't ask don't tell. Right. I

Brett Johnson [: 01:10:10

mean I mean it all I mean to me

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:12

But I would have an ask and tell policy. I would simply say, listen, you are welcome to be a gay scoutmaster all day long. You can hold the meetings. You can hold the promotions. You can teach. You can be a merit badge adviser. We don't we are not grossed out or upset or in any way thinking your gayness is a problem. It is the sexual attraction to the opposite sex, whether it's a boy or girl, whether it's a mom or dad.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:39

Hold on. Okay.

Steve Palmer [: 01:10:40

Are you attracted to young girls? No. I'm not either.

Norm Murdock [: 01:10:45

However attracted to fully grown women. There are tens of thousands of rapists in prison that that are attractive to young men.

Brett Johnson [: 01:10:53

You asked and you told so you would be allowed to but you don't want to. You could be a scout master. You go on a camping trip for a young one for with with young girls.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:02

If a scoutmaster lies and says, no. I'm only attracted to women.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:08

The creepers are gonna go do what they're gonna do.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:10

Yeah. So I

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:10

I that's all

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:11

I do.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:11

Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:12

I I

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:12

think there's a bigger problem with the scouts. The bigger problem with the scouts is

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:14

They're not policing themselves either

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:16

for a while. They they have permitted this degradation of the value system that made the scouts attractive to

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:23

Well, that's why.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:24

Traditional American family.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:25

That's what I've been saying.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:26

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:26

Right. Yeah. That's the problem.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:28

Well, then and one and one of the problems is letting gays

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:31

That's part of it.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:32

Take boys into the woods.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:34

That's part of it.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:34

And they didn't police it very well knowing that, okay, that opened the door for that to happen. Yes.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:39

And the other the Catholic church.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:41

So Right.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:41

Right. Right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:42

Yeah. Yeah. They're and and look. Maybe it's like this.

Brett Johnson [: 01:11:44

And the

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:44

reaction of both is to let more in.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:46

And and maybe maybe one begat the other. So I'm a normal man with a normal American family.

Norm Murdock [: 01:11:52

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:11:52

And, you know, I don't you know, for whatever reason, my kids are involved in football. They're involved in baseball. They're involved in stuff. So I don't really have time for scouts. So now who's it now who's going? Well,

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:02

you make up a good point because we there are a lot of other opportunities in scouts to do. But sports, namely soccer.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:08

Oh my god. So now who's going into scouting? You know, it's like you've you've eliminated like, our society has sort of eliminated that as an interesting or an attractive option for our kids.

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:18

True.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:18

And it it just through the other problems. So now it's like, you know, you I don't know about

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:23

that. Because you choose

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:24

a sport. It sounds like you don't know a lot about a traditional scouting. I like, they went on they went on the Appalachian Trail for 10 days. They they

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:32

Look. I got it. But I didn't get along. That because my kids were involved in other sports.

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:36

Well, that's

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:36

what and

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:37

when you are involved in other sports, that it's an obligation.

Steve Palmer [: 01:12:40

You can only pick so many. Now we have travel volleyball and travel softball and travel baseball.

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:44

And looking at

Brett Johnson [: 01:12:44

it kids are gone all summer. Right? Could be the problem.

Norm Murdock [: 01:12:47

And Ohio State fired a female, basketball coach because she predated on the girls on her team. And I won't name a name, but we all know who it is. And she was let go from Ohio State. So that was a homosexual attraction by a grown woman to, young women on under under her, ages. And so I'm just saying, if that happens

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:13

It's a little different. We're talking about college age.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:15

Yeah. Yeah. That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:16

It's a lot different.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:17

It is. That means that she heave she bore even less pressure than an adult would to a minor child on account.

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:25

And it's

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:25

a crime. Right? So look. Anyway, alright. Let's let's we I think we we we were up against the clock here. So

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:30

JD Vance, big talk about him being vice president, candidate with he he claimed on the Glenn Beck show. I I read that, Trump and him have never talked about that, but he's in the mix.

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:42

Well, I thought he interviewed with him down in didn't he didn't talk with you like an interview process with some people? No.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:48

Not him. Did not talk.

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:48

Or that maybe I misunderstood what he did. Okay.

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:50

Maybe he

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:51

didn't According

Norm Murdock [: 01:13:51

to Vance.

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:52

Interesting. I like that.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:53

He talks but not about vice president.

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:54

That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:55

Oh. That's right. Okay.

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:56

So we

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:56

never mention the word vice president. Right?

Brett Johnson [: 01:13:58

We're gonna talk about whether you'd

Steve Palmer [: 01:13:59

be a good vice president.

Brett Johnson [: 01:14:00

That's like an interview process.

Norm Murdock [: 01:14:01

That's what he's saying.

Brett Johnson [: 01:14:02

Okay. Okay.

Norm Murdock [: 01:14:03

We've got this case. Very unfortunate. This, defensive back, former with Ohio State Marcus Williamson, arrested. They got a warrant, put a GPS tracker on his, vehicle. The detectives followed him to his 9th alleged bank robbery and or took him down there. One note too bad. One note implied he had a gun. He's only 25 years old.

Steve Palmer [: 01:14:27

It's like Maurice Claret years. Yes.

Norm Murdock [: 01:14:29

It is. It rings that bell.

Brett Johnson [: 01:14:31

Oh, man.

Norm Murdock [: 01:14:31

And then I don't know how you guys feel about this, but this is I just think this is weird. So I saw a new dating site has popped up. It came up on, what was I watching? I think Netflix. I was watching Netflix and a a dating site came up called BLK, and it's a black exclusive dating site, and it just it bothered me. Why? Well, because I think the inclination will be now they have a white one, and that bothers me. Why? Why can't we just have a dating site that specifies the look that you are looking for?

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:11

What's the difference? So if, say, I've got one dating site that says I'm gonna go click on black only within the dating site, it's the same thing.

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:17

Yes. That's right.

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:18

But would that that doesn't bother you as much?

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:20

Kinda bothers me. I I I can't put my finger on why it bothers me.

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:24

If I'm not attracted to black folks, if

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:26

I'm not

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:26

attracted to Asian folks, or I'm not maybe I'm attracted to something. Maybe I like Eastern. I you know, have at it. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:32

I don't know, man.

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:33

I look. I think I think that's one of the benefits of dating sites. You can pick who you're attracted to and and find a whole pool of

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:38

Yeah. And you should yeah. There should not be a there should not be a title 9 or or whatever a title 6 on

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:45

I mean, look. Black, white. Look. Whatever whatever, floats your boat, man.

Norm Murdock [: 01:15:48

But it just it just, it just I don't know. It took me back that there's an interesting site that's racial

Steve Palmer [: 01:15:55

Maybe maybe there's an interracial only dating site. I it doesn't make any difference to me. Go date who you wanna date. I don't care.

Brett Johnson [: 01:16:01

Yeah. Because it's really doing no harm, no foul.

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:03

I don't care except that I it bothers me that there's a racially exclusive site. That that that bothers me. I and I can't really I can't But don't don't don't Makes me feel well.

Brett Johnson [: 01:16:14

Okay. So yeah. So it would so go so if there was a site called WHT, and it's whites only.

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:20

People would freak out, Steve.

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:21

And they'd be wrong.

Brett Johnson [: 01:16:22

And they would be wrong. Exactly.

Brett Johnson [: 01:16:24

They they

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:24

And they'd be wrong. I'd I defend the I I would defend to the death the the right for a white only dating site to exist. I mean Wow. Why not? Why Why not? Yeah. Yeah. If if I'm not attracted if I'm only attracted to white folks of a certain maybe maybe how about white brunettes Yeah. Or blondes only?

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:44

I can't explain it. Yeah. It it just it repulses me somehow.

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:48

But human nature, it's like I

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:49

The the idea for racially I I would feel the same way if it was Hispanic No. I gotcha. GMO.

Brett Johnson [: 01:16:54

Yeah. Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:55

Or or Irish only.

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:56

I don't fault somebody if they're only attracted to black folks.

Brett Johnson [: 01:16:58

Oh, I

Norm Murdock [: 01:16:58

really don't fault.

Brett Johnson [: 01:16:59

If they're

Steve Palmer [: 01:16:59

only attracted to white folks. I don't

Brett Johnson [: 01:17:00

fault them. Even if

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:01

you're black and you're attracted to white or white and you're attracted to Well,

Brett Johnson [: 01:17:03

some people are only attracted to blondes.

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:05

Some some people

Brett Johnson [: 01:17:05

are blondes. Can go

Brett Johnson [: 01:17:06

down to that.

Norm Murdock [: 01:17:07

I mean I guess

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:08

I I happen to like brunettes.

Norm Murdock [: 01:17:09

I guess to articulate it, what probably is at the basis of my repulsion is that somebody's making money. At the end of the day, somebody is making money off of a racially tinged site in that Yeah. I yes. I I don't.

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:27

Because I recognize the reality of it.

Norm Murdock [: 01:17:28

Because then why not why not have a blacks only editors association or lawyers association?

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:34

They do.

Norm Murdock [: 01:17:34

Yeah. And that bothers and that bothers.

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:36

It doesn't bother me. Yeah. It what bothers me about it is if it you've already brought it up. If there were a whites only, then people would be up in arms. But Yeah. So if you're gonna have 1, then you have to at least express that there's a there's, the basis to have another.

Norm Murdock [: 01:17:50

Yeah. Like, we've had the Like,

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:51

the Asians Law Group or the Black Law Group.

Norm Murdock [: 01:17:53

We've had the FOP guy.

Steve Palmer [: 01:17:54

Women's law. There's a win there's a women's bar auxiliary. There's a women's bar association. I mean, it does make a difference

Brett Johnson [: 01:18:00

to me.

Norm Murdock [: 01:18:00

Like, we had the FOP guy here for Columbus Yeah. For for the you know. And he and I asked him about why is there a black police officers FOP kind of thing. And he said it was based on somebody being disgruntled and having an axe to grind. And I don't know if that's true or not true, but it bothers me that black police officers, for example, would have to go seek help from racially exclusive work.

Steve Palmer [: 01:18:27

Bothers me a little bit more.

Brett Johnson [: 01:18:28

Mother's the hell out.

Steve Palmer [: 01:18:29

For for a couple other reasons. But because that that's that feels more politically charged to me.

Norm Murdock [: 01:18:34

Doesn't it?

Steve Palmer [: 01:18:35

Yeah. A dating site does not.

Norm Murdock [: 01:18:37

Okay, man.

Steve Palmer [: 01:18:37

And I and even to thinking about, like, the bar associations, that feels a little bit more politically charged to me than the dating sites.

Norm Murdock [: 01:18:43

Or doctors.

Steve Palmer [: 01:18:43

Or That's pushing towards segregation a little bit, I think. Right. But on a dating site, like, I think that I think race is a perfectly race, religion, look. Yeah. That's a perfectly acceptable way to sort out a dating site, because those are individual attractive features

Norm Murdock [: 01:19:02

But that site depending

Steve Palmer [: 01:19:02

on who you are.

Norm Murdock [: 01:19:03

That site is saying when you log on, basically, they're saying, hey, you know, blacks only. Mhmm. I don't like that. That's like a white suddenly on a lavatory door or something.

Brett Johnson [: 01:19:14

I think that I don't know if there's a Christian dating. So I don't know whether it's a Christian only or you could be Jewish on there. I don't

Steve Palmer [: 01:19:20

I don't know. There is. It's Christian only now.

Norm Murdock [: 01:19:22

I'm sure he'll lie.

Brett Johnson [: 01:19:23

Well, that's the thing. I don't know how you get into the black sauce.

Steve Palmer [: 01:19:26

Here. So these are these are private organizations. Right. Yeah. Or exactly. So we're just talking Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 01:19:31

We're just talking about how it hit me. And it it pulled me over because I'm totally open to dating anybody of any Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:19:39

But I'm not. Or maybe he's not. Or maybe somebody else is not. So it's like, you know, I you know, you look for what you like and that's

Norm Murdock [: 01:19:45

But if a lady is on that site, that means she's basically saying not interested right up front. Like, black dudes on it.

Steve Palmer [: 01:19:54

So so at least you know where you're not gonna go find your date.

Brett Johnson [: 01:19:57

And that's fine. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:19:58

Like, why would you wanna filter through that in any other site?

Brett Johnson [: 01:20:01

Yeah.

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:01

You should get

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:02

rid of that from the top.

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:03

So the old Spencer Tracy movie where, you know, guess who's coming to dinner. Right? Remember that movie?

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:08

That was with, what's his name?

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:10

Sydney Poitier.

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:11

Sydney Poitier. Right? It was a remake too with So Ashton Kutcher.

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:14

So so should Spencer,

Brett Johnson [: 01:20:16

if he

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:16

if he was so inclined, say, hey, you know, hit the door, dude. You're not dating my daughter.

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:23

Well, I'm sure it happens.

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:24

Yeah. Right. But that's different. That's so wrong if they're in love with each other. I mean, this is basically saying dating

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:31

set has nothing to

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:32

do with this. Well, it's basically saying we're not even gonna give you a chance.

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:36

I am

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:37

Based on your skin color.

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:38

I am saying

Brett Johnson [: 01:20:39

Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:40

I I don't care who you're attracted to. Yeah. Go find that person and make a family.

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:46

Yeah. You know what? You can't do it on this site.

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:48

Oh, sure you can.

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:49

No. You're sure you can. If yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:51

And you're black. And you're Right. So that's right. If you're black and you wanna raise a family with a and look, I think there's a lot of psychology about this. Like, you know

Norm Murdock [: 01:20:58

Oh, yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:20:59

What's his name? Thomas Sowell wrote a book. I I think it was Race and Racism in America.

Norm Murdock [: 01:21:04

Marriages are way

Brett Johnson [: 01:21:04

harder.

Steve Palmer [: 01:21:05

Talking about how communities sort. And they communities tend

Brett Johnson [: 01:21:07

marriages are harder.

Norm Murdock [: 01:21:08

That's right. Yeah.

Steve Palmer [: 01:21:09

Communities That's right. They aren't. Cultures tend to sort with their own.

Norm Murdock [: 01:21:13

No question.

Steve Palmer [: 01:21:13

They tend to do it. Yep. And we can try to engineer it from above. But No.

Norm Murdock [: 01:21:16

I don't wanna engineer it.

Steve Palmer [: 01:21:18

Is we like what we like.

Norm Murdock [: 01:21:19

I guess I just didn't like this. You know, it's shutting a door in the face of other people based on an immutable characteristic Only if you

Steve Palmer [: 01:21:26

preclude the alternatives.

Norm Murdock [: 01:21:29

Yeah. Okay.

Steve Palmer [: 01:21:30

That's how I look at it.

Brett Johnson [: 01:21:31

And then Right. And then it'll be interesting to see if it's commercially viable. Yeah. If they survive.

Steve Palmer [: 01:21:34

Yeah. If they survive.

Brett Johnson [: 01:21:35

That is interesting. That's really interesting.

Norm Murdock [: 01:21:38

Hey. Lastly, I wanna say happy Mother's Day. Yes. To all the moms out there. My mother is no longer with us, but she was the most incredible person, I'll ever know. She my mom. And so, happy Mother's Day to your mothers Yes. And to your wives.

Norm Murdock [: 01:21:56

Yes. Yes. To my ex wife. Yeah. For she was a great mother too.

Brett Johnson [: 01:21:59

There you go.

Steve Palmer [: 01:22:00

Alright. Well, with that, we're gonna wrap it up. This has been Common Sense, Ohio. I think we've pushed the bounds of our time limit, far enough on this May 10, 2024, going into Mother's Day, as Norm pointed out. You can we are, of course, brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting, where all your accounting needs can be met, whether they are big, whether they're small, whether you have a thriving entrepreneur spirit or whether you just wanna get your tax return. They have got the resources for you, And check us out. Commonsenseohioshow.com. Check out the website.

Steve Palmer [: 01:22:29

Like it. Share it. The Facebook numbers are growing. The videos are we got the clips and the reels and the stuff and the

Norm Murdock [: 01:22:35

Oh, we Steve, we picked up 50 people in the last 2 weeks.

Steve Palmer [: 01:22:39

How about that?

Norm Murdock [: 01:22:40

That's unbelievable. So we're starting to snowball a

Steve Palmer [: 01:22:42

little bit. It's like it's like wildfire Yeah. Right here in Ohio, where we are Common Sense Ohio coming at you right from the middle, at least until now.