Storytime | Nik Mijic - The Daily Standup

[Dillon] (0:00 - 0:08)

So you hit on the center of Rob's bingo card with the term ROI. So I want to give Rob an opportunity to.

[Rob] (0:09 - 0:18)

Dillon, I don't know what you're talking about. I've definitely never at once ever brought this up, thought about this. I think I've never heard anybody use the term ROI.

[Dillon] (0:18 - 0:48)

We, we have the literal receipts. It's all over the internet. Are you ready for this?

All right. Everybody ready? Yup.

What's up lifers and welcome to The Daily Standup with Lifetime Value where we're giving you fresh new customer success ideas every single day. I got my man, JP here. JP, do you want to say hi?

[JP] (0:49 - 0:50)

Going on people.

[Dillon] (0:51 - 1:07)

And we have Rob with us. Rob, can you say hi? What's up boys and girls?

And we have Nik with us. Nik, can you say hi please? Hey everyone.

How's it going? Going very well. And I am your host.

My name is Dillon Young. Nik, can you please introduce yourself?

[Nik] (1:08 - 1:19)

Yes. Uh, my name is Nik Mijic and I'm one of the co-founders of Matik. Uh, and what we do is we help automate data-driven content for customer success and sales teams.

[Dillon] (1:20 - 1:32)

I love it. I love it. Then you're in the right place, Nik, because we ask one simple question of every single guest.

And that is what is on your mind when it comes to customer success. So can you tell us what that is for you?

[Nik] (1:33 - 2:22)

Yes, a lot on the mind, but, uh, um, if I had to pick one thing, I think one of the things, just given everything that's going on in the macro climate and what we've been experiencing the tech sector overall, uh, I think one thing that is just very common and what we continue to hear is how do you go and tell that ROI story, right? And how do you tell ROI and how do you demonstrate value with data throughout the customer lifecycle? So that's been something that's been really top of mind.

And I think it's something that customer success teams, especially with budget cuts and tightening belts, what's above the line, below the line, they're on the front lines, having to basically tell that ROI story to save their accounts from churning or potentially even upselling. Right. And they're doing that with data.

So that's been something that we've been thinking about a lot.

[Dillon] (2:23 - 2:28)

And that is the crux of why Matik exists. I imagine.

[Nik] (2:28 - 3:02)

Yeah, I was prior to starting the company, I was at LinkedIn and my background is more in ops and data, and I had worked on building out internal tools and, you know, at LinkedIn data was key to everything that we did. And our sellers, our customer success teams, they would infuse data to tell that ROI story, to be able to tie it back to objectives of the customers or the prospects, and they would do that at scale. So it was really important across the entire customer journey to be able to infuse these data-driven insights that would tie to value and objectives.

[Dillon] (3:04 - 3:12)

And so your role at LinkedIn, were you enabling the CS teams? Were you in some way tied to them? What did that look like?

[Nik] (3:13 - 3:42)

Yeah. So we were tied to both hunters and we call them hunters and farmers, hunters in the sense of like AEs, and then farmers, customer success, account management, renewal management. And our job was to basically give them stories with data that they could use in the field that would help with key outcomes.

So renewal is an outcome, increasing adoption, right? How do we use the LinkedIn data and usage data of the products that they bought to showcase the value that our product was giving?

[Dillon] (3:44 - 3:57)

So you hit on the center of Rob's bingo card with the term ROI. So I want to give Rob an opportunity to fawn over you and also ask any questions he might have.

[Rob] (3:58 - 4:07)

Dillon, I don't know what you're talking about. I've definitely never at once ever brought this up, thought about this. I think I've never heard anybody use the term ROI.

[Dillon] (4:07 - 4:12)

We have the literal receipts. It's all over the internet.

[Rob] (4:12 - 6:18)

Nik, I'm such a fan boy for what you guys do, honestly. Cause it's so cool. It's hard too.

It's extraordinarily hard. And I've been having a lot of conversations with folks lately. So my day-to-day is as a consultant.

And to help bridge the gap between my clients and their clients, I often introduced this idea of some sort of ROI calculator to prove to their clients that the investment was worth it. And it's so funny because most teams they'll say, yeah, our sales team uses one of those. I was like, well, why aren't we using this in customer success?

Like we're having quarterly reviews with our accounts. We're having renewals with our accounts. And then there's the proof has got to be in the pudding at the end, at the renewal time to show that it's worth it to renew.

And I think one of the challenges is, there are many challenges, but ROI is really intangible a lot of the time. It can be really intangible with certain models. Like a lot of models I work with are vertical SaaS models where, you know, the clients of these SaaS companies, they buy a bundled solution where it's like, the goal is somewhat intangible.

Like the client wants to be cloud-based and they want efficiency, but they don't really know how they measure efficiency and they don't really have baselines, but they just know it when they see it or they want their people to be happier or that kind of thing. And then also that value outcome, the ROI varies depending on the persona within the organization. Like the executive leaders, the day-to-day managers, the end users, they're all going to have different value outcomes.

And so it's so puzzling to try to figure out like, what's a value story that you can tell through all these different layers of personas and then across segments too, of the customer base as well. And I deal with it in my own line of work as well, right? Like people are like, why should we pay for a consultant?

And I'm like, well, the ROI is there. How do I prove that? It's a little intangible sometimes.

Anyway, all this to say it's a baffling science, but it's like one of the most important conversations that I think we can have in customer success. It's also one of my favorite topics because there's this big debate between are we pushing for outcomes or are we pushing for renewals? And well, you know what, guess what?

Positive ROI can produce both of those things. So yeah, I love the topic. I want to get some more thoughts from the guys though.

[Nik] (6:18 - 7:00)

I think one thing I would just add to that, Rob, though, is I think the reason why people do struggle with it is because they seek perfection and they let perfection be the enemy of progress, right? I love that saying. So like mentioned all these different flavors by segment and it's true, but you got to start somewhere, right?

I would even argue a simple ROI calculator is better. And even if the customer, your client doesn't know, you should have a strong perspective. Okay.

You might not know how to quantify it, but I know how to quantify it and let them respond to that. And so I think a lot of the times we just have a hard time starting somewhere where we might not be comfortable with data. We might not be comfortable with telling the story and you don't know what's going to stick until you throw it against the wall.

[Dillon] (7:00 - 7:28)

I had a conversation, JP, I want to come to you in one second. I had a conversation today where the guy was like, you have to have a working theory. You have to have something written down.

He's like, I don't care, my employees, I do not care if their idea stinks, but if they don't have an idea written down, that's when I get mad at them. That's when they're in trouble. And so it's this idea of like, you got to throw something against the wall and see what sticks and then go from there.

JP, go ahead.

[JP] (7:30 - 9:39)

Yeah. Um, I love ROI story as something that's a great, I don't know if aggregator is the right word, but I think when I think about what am I really working towards with my accounts? It's not to have a great QBR.

So I think that there's a few things that we talk about, like data being central, right, but I know there's going to be a lot of people out there where, uh, their data capabilities are certainly stunning, especially compared to LinkedIn, where I know that there is a lot more data available because of how people are using the product. So part of this is how do you get the relevant data, uh, from your customer and having some sort of ROI calculator or being able to find those points, I think is something important to work towards when meeting with clients. And then the other thing is we talk about building relationships and it's yes.

Are we building the relationships with the right people? Because what I see is you can have a great relationship with your power user, your brand champion, but you really need a great relationship with those who own the budget, who are the decision makers. And so I think the higher you go up, the more that data needs to be clear, the more that ROI needs to be clear.

So I feel like part of what we're doing in customer success, we should be doing in customer success is working toward that end, having the people that we speak with, have that more tactical conversation to glean the ROI from the account, from what they're getting, and then building the relationship enough so that we can get introduced to these people and be able to put that data in front of them. If we can't tell them that ROI story, then even if the ROI is there, if it hasn't been made visible, then that person's, they're not going to renew. And so I think that this is like you hit upon, I think the North star that we should be looking towards in customer success overall, and really all the functions, how do we tell that data story to the right people and make sure that we're getting it so we can get the data from the tactical conversations so we can tell that ROI story in a strategic fashion to those who own the budgets and decision makers.

-: 10:41

I think too, JP, to, I think, I feel like we should be using data to build trust at the end of the day with our customers. And so like you talked about getting access to the data. I look at data, like you guys have all heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

It's a pyramid. There are different types of data that kind of follow a very similar talk track. At the bottom of the pyramid, the foundation is what sales gathers in the discovery process, objectives, right?

These are things that you should have as a CSM when you get the account. Why did they buy? How much did they buy?

What industry are they in? What do they care about? What are they solving for?

That stuff is there. Then as they start using your product or service, you're collecting usage data, and that may be what you show to your admin or your power user. It gets them excited.

It says, Hey, here's how you guys are using the product. This is what you're leveraging. This is what you're not leveraging.

And then at the top of the pyramid to your point, JP, it is, okay, how do I translate why they bought, how they're using it to how they're accomplishing their goals at the top, which is then the ROI.

[JP] (: 10:41

Yeah.

[Nik] (: 10:42

That was good.

[JP] (: 10:43

You see Rob lit up because you missed the last round. So he was like flush. So you can see it.

[Dillon] (: 10:47

Oh yeah.

[JP] (: 10:48

Spoke to my heart.

[Dillon] (: 10:49

It's fumbling even more. Rob is finally becoming a fan. Nik, as we wrap this up, where can folks learn more?

What's the website and you want to connect with you on LinkedIn?

[Nik] (: 11:02

Yeah. Feel free to connect on LinkedIn. Websites, Matik. So M A T I K dot IO. Check us out, but definitely don't hesitate to reach out if you want to learn more.

[Dillon] (: 11:13

Awesome stuff, Nik. That is our time. Would love to have you come back and talk about this more.

Throw another few frameworks at Rob. He's going to want to leave his wife for you and Matik in general, but for now, we've got to say goodbye, Nik. All right.

[Nik] (: 11:25

Sounds good. Thanks team. Enjoy the conversation.

Have a good one.

[VO] (: 11:32

You've been listening to The Daily Standup by Lifetime Value. Please note that the views expressed in these conversations are attributed only to those individuals on this recording and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of their respective employers. For all inquiries, please reach out via email to Dillon at LifetimeValueMedia.com.

Find us on YouTube at Lifetime Value and find us on the socials at Lifetime Value Media. Until next time.

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