In Episode 324 of The Business Development Podcast, Kelly Kennedy sits down with Kris Marks, CEO of VIV Mental Health, keynote speaker, and psychological health and safety advisor, for one of the most powerful conversations on the show to date. Kris shares his deeply personal journey from trauma, homelessness, and a suicide attempt to becoming a national voice for mental health leadership and psychological safety in workplaces and communities. His story is raw, honest, and deeply human, revealing how years of quiet healing and self-reflection ultimately led him to transform pain into purpose.

Throughout the episode, Kris and Kelly explore the growing importance of mental health in leadership, the cultural shift toward human-centered workplaces, and the reality that authenticity and psychological safety must be intentionally built within organizations. Kris also shares how he transitioned from a Red Seal machinist and musician into an entrepreneur and founder, building VIV Mental Health into a fast-growing organization focused on helping leaders support their people in meaningful ways.

Key Takeaways:

1. Your past does not define your future. Even the darkest experiences can become the foundation for a life of purpose and impact.
2. Healing is rarely instant. Kris spent years doing quiet, difficult internal work before he was ready to speak openly about his experiences and help others.
3. Authentic leadership starts with vulnerability. When leaders are willing to go first and model honesty, it creates the psychological safety others need to speak up.
4. Mental health is one of the defining leadership challenges of this decade. Organizations that ignore it will struggle to attract, retain, and support great people.
5. Psychological safety is not created by policy alone. It requires trust, consistent behavior from leaders, and environments where people feel safe being human.
6. People often carry invisible struggles. Many individuals who appear confident and successful are privately dealing with experiences others never see.
7. Your story has power. Sharing lived experiences, when done thoughtfully, can create connection, healing, and understanding for others facing similar struggles.
8. Career pivots are possible at any stage. Kris transitioned from the trades into entrepreneurship and mental health leadership by leaning into his experiences and strengths.
9. Leadership is about people first. The most effective leaders focus on empathy, communication, and understanding the human side of performance.
10. Trying matters more than perfection. Growth often begins with the simple willingness to take the first step, even when the path forward is uncertain.

Sponsor Highlights

This episode of The Business Development Podcast is proudly supported by our 2026 Title Sponsor, Hypervac Technologies. Hypervac designs and manufactures industry-leading hydro excavation equipment used across North America to help contractors excavate safer, faster, and more efficiently. Alongside Hypervac, Hyperfab delivers custom-built fabrication solutions designed for performance, durability, and real-world industrial application.

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This episode is also proudly supported by our 2026 Roadblock Sponsor, Thunder Bay Hydraulics. Thunder Bay Hydraulics specializes in hydraulic manufacturing, repair, and systems integration supporting industries across Canada. Alongside Thunder Bay Hydraulics, Atlas Elite Lifts delivers premium automotive lift solutions for high-end homes, luxury condos, dealerships, and elite garage spaces, with lift systems so cool they are Bat Cave Ready.

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If you enjoy the show, please take a moment to give these incredible companies some love. Their support helps make powerful conversations like this possible and allows us to continue bringing valuable insights to the business community.

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The Catalyst Club is a private leadership community where we host live workshops, expert sessions, and real conversations about business development, leadership, entrepreneurship, and growth. It’s a room built for people who want to move forward, share ideas, and support one another along the journey of building great businesses and meaningful careers.

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Hyperfab Midroll

I decided to go to therapy, try it out.

And I canceled my first four appointments.

I made them, drove there, canceled from the parking lot four times.

Wow.

I was terrified because nobody knew, like, what I was.

So I finally go in and I meet this guy.

His name was Jorge.

And he was the first, like, human I'd really ever told everything to.

And I was crying, he was crying, and it was just, it was just pouring out and just.

Just heavy and hard.

And he kind of looked at me after I'd finished.

He said, chris, he says, do you know what I do the other seven days a week?

Because he was a therapist who did like pro bono once a week, so it was free.

And I said, I have no idea.

And he said, I work at the Edmonton Max Prison.

And I said, okay.

And he says, I've heard stories like, similar to yours from the men that I work with every day and they end up with me.

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Let's do it.

Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Hello.

Welcome to episode 324 of the Business Development Podcast.

And today it is my absolute pleasure to bring you Chris Marks.

Chris is a mental health visionary, keynote speaker, musician and the powerhouse CEO behind VIV Mental Health.

A certified psychological health and safety advisor with the Canadian Mental Health Association, Chris brings an unmatched depth of expertise and lived experience to the conversation of psychological safety, leadership and mental wellness in high stakes environments.

With a 13 year career as a red Seal, journeyman, machinist and a history of performing on stages across Canada as a professional musician and comedian, Chris defies every stereotype about what it means to work in mental health.

His approach is raw, relatable and rooted in reality.

He's not just educating leaders, he's showing them how to lead with empathy, strength and authenticity.

But what makes Chris truly unforgettable is his story.

A survivor of trauma, homelessness and a suicide attempt, Chris fought his way back and turned that pain into purpose.

And today, he builds bridges between workplaces, schools, and communities offering tools that don't just tick boxes, but change lives.

Whether through his groundbreaking instrumental health program, powerful keynotes, or leadership training sessions, Chris is transforming how we talk about mental health in Canada.

He's not here to soften the blow.

He's here to spark a movement.

Chris, it's an honor and a privilege to have you on the show.

Kelly, you're going to make me blush before my weekend here.

Thank you very much.

What a pleasure.

What a privilege to be here.

It's good to see you, my friend.

It's really good to see you too, man.

All I can say is that after our first introduction conversation, I think I was left a little bit stunned and in awe for about two hours.

Wow.

Well, I just was.

Hopefully we can.

We can recreate that today, too.

But thank you for the generous introduction.

I really appreciate that.

No, no, thank you for the work you're doing.

I think when people look back at, you know, one of the biggest impacts on the world during this time, I think it's going to be mental health front and center.

Because I agree, Covid changed absolutely everything.

I think, with.

With regards to the way that we show up in the world with the kindness that we treat people with, the empathy we treat people with.

And I kind of think that the people that.

That don't make those changes, they're going to be left in the dust.

Well, I think you nailed, like, Covid was such a catalyst for.

For a shift in mindset, just a shift in, I think, people's personal values and their priorities that gave a lot of time to a lot of people to really think about what was important.

And if we're going to.

If we're going to find a silver lining from those three years, five years, whatever it was that it was that.

That we're.

We're coming at it with, like, a human centric approach.

So I love.

Yeah.

Everyone I talked to was talking personal branding.

That we've gone so far in this, like, crazy AI direction that people are just Going to be like needing human to human interaction, human focus.

And the word I used at that time was human centric approach.

So I think, I think it's really cool.

We're on the page, brother.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Absolutely.

You've had a pretty incredible story.

You've had a really interesting pivot too, which I find amazing.

And we're talking to a lot of entrepreneurs today and I think they're going to want to better understand how you went from, you know, essentially a tradesman machinist to an entrepreneur of your own to a completely different style of entrepreneur as well.

You didn't, you didn't start a machine shop.

You know, you went a completely different direction and so lead us down the whole story.

Take us back to being a kid.

Walk us through to today.

Who is Chris Marks?

Oh, gosh.

Okay, strap in.

Strapping in.

First of all, I mean to, we'll bring it back full circle but I think you, you laid the groundwork really well and then set me up for a couple of surprises on what you said.

So gosh, going back to a kid, like I'm, I was just a typical Alberta boy, born and raised in Edmonton.

Yep.

My mom and dad had me pretty young.

I was in the wedding photos, so amazing.

Oops.

But you know, my parents were, gosh, they were young but they did the best they could.

I grew up playing hockey.

My dad was a fantastic hockey player.

He was my hockey coach and, and mom was a stay at home mom and she was involved with school stuff and community and it was great.

And I, they introduced my little brother when I was about nine and a half.

But around that time their marriage was starting to show cracks and I think that was the catalyst.

They decided to part ways.

And it wasn't, it wasn't the most amicable split to, you know, divorce is really tough.

So yeah, so on we onward we go with a, with a split family and then a blended family.

My dad got remarried and yeah, I grew up playing.

I started playing guitar when I was 12.

Played hockey my whole life and just, you know, no notes up until there.

But the, I think divorce for any kid, for most kids that was kind of my first trauma and it was really tough because like I loved them both so much and, and life was good and now, you know, there's some animosity and just things that kids had to navigate and they were doing the best they could but they never really checked in with us little ones.

My brother was too small but so I internalized a lot of that.

You know, I was Raised kind of a bootstraps kid.

And my dad was tough guy, guy I looked up to.

He internalized a lot.

So that's what the model was.

And for a lot of boys that's what it is.

Right.

We just tough it out.

So fast forward to high school.

You know, I was pretty outgoing and started at a new school, moved from Edmonton to Sherwood park, which is just like kind of a little hamlet outside of Edmonton.

But for a teenager it's like moving to Florida.

Like all my friends got left behind.

Yeah.

And yeah, I was trying to connect with new students and make some friends and you know, there was an incident that happened in grade 10.

It happened on school grounds, but we used to call it boys being boys and you know, I could hold my own pretty well.

And it escalated into an assault, a sexual assault.

That was something that I just kept to myself as well.

And it really crossed a lot of wires in my mind.

Like I was a straight A student, honors, kind of headed for university like the rest of my family.

And by the time I graduated it was.

I had a different attitude.

Life at home was tough.

I was asked to leave home at 18 a couple weeks after grad.

That was a big shift.

I wasn't ready, didn't have any life skills, no money saved.

And as the first one of my friend group who had their own place after high school we had a lot of fun for a couple years just winging it.

And yeah, when I was 20, I came home one day and there was an extra lock on my apartment door and I paid rent and estranged from my family, kind of disconnected from my friends.

If you're watching this podcast, my hair will tell you I'm a little bit older.

So back then didn't have a cell phone or car or anything.

I spent a period of time unhoused and that was a big shift to go from like a pretty well to do middle class family to that.

So struggled with, with depression.

Especially since the incident in high school.

I had trouble with my sleep and yeah, I tried to take my own life when I was 20 and survived obviously and kept that secret as well.

So here I am as this outgoing guitar party guy and I had a lot of secrets and I was kind of showing up inauthentically.

I got really good at masking and you know, when we dive into the mental health side of it, that was.

I was showing up in, in whatever way that whatever friend I was with or friend group wanted.

Right.

So if they liked the Guitar Hero guide, show up as that.

If they want the, you know, the close friend or the, the ride or die.

I'd show up as that.

But I really had no identity and really struggled in my 20s just to manage my own mental health.

And what career?

I was bartender, I worked at Staples, I worked at Denny's and Earl's.

I was a door to door salesman.

Yeah.

Didn't know what I wanted.

And I, in the back of my mind, I'm like, geez, I was this really smart kid, wanted to be a teacher or a marine biologist because of Free Willy, right.

So.

And had all these dreams, but it, you know, I was just scraping by.

And then I was 24, I reached out to my dad, I reconnected with him and I said, hey, I'm looking for, for a change in my life.

And he knew what was going on.

And at first, you know, there was some friction there, but.

But he said he was living in Grand Prairie at the time.

And I, I like to joke like, nobody moves to Grand Prairie to start their life over.

Yeah, but, but he said, you know, I play hockey with a guy who owns a machine shop.

I could probably get you a job as a laborer.

And, and I, I moved up there.

He bought me a Greyhound ticket.

And I left my party ways behind and started to get my feet down.

Seven.

Six.

Somewhere around there.

Yeah.

Alberta was booming.

They couldn't find enough people.

So I was cutting steel and my boss said, hey, you're a smart guy.

I'll put you on a lathe and see how you do.

And being an artist, you know, I was that kid who wrote poetry and songs and I played music.

It was like this metal art and very precise.

And that's why my hair looks like the before picture on a box of Just for Men.

Stressful at times too, right?

Yeah.

And.

But I, I liked it.

I liked it enough.

I liked that kind of work too.

So.

Got my journeyman ticket, moved back to Edmonton.

And this whole time, you know, I was, I was still keeping these, like, dark secrets and the things that I struggled with.

And it sort of bubbled up in my early 30s and I, I went back.

I shouldn't say I went back, but I, I decided to go to therapy, try it out.

And I canceled my first four appointments.

I made them, drove there, canceled from the parking lot four times.

Wow.

I was terrified because nobody knew, like, what I was.

So I finally go in and I meet this guy.

His name was Jorge.

And he was the first like, human I'd really ever told everything to.

And I was crying, and he was crying, and it was just.

It was just pouring out and just heavy and hard.

And he kind of looked at me after I'd finished.

He said, chris, he says, do you know what I do the other seven days a week?

Because he was a therapist who did, like, pro bono once a week, so it was free.

And I said, I have no idea.

And he said, I work at the Edmonton Max Prison.

And I said, okay.

And he says, I've heard stories, like.

Similar to yours from the men that I work with every day, and they end up with me.

He said, it's remarkable that you've had healthy relationships.

You got a trade.

You put yourself through Nate, reconnected with your family.

And that was.

That was a pivotal moment for me.

That was the first context I ever had, you know, for somebody who's Just has their head down and they're just trying to.

A lot of people are just winging it and hoping.

And that was the first context I had that, you know, what I'd done was something to be proud of.

Yeah.

So he sold me.

I went back, took more therapy, and I switched therapists a couple times, you know, just to get a better fit as I grew up.

And.

Anyway, got a handle on my mental health.

Figured out the sleep thing.

I used to suffer from night terrors pretty regularly.

Yeah.

And, you know, when you're working in the trades, not sleeping can be, like, a physical health and safety issue, too.

Yes.

So I didn't.

You know, in that.

In that culture, you know, some of the tropes are true.

I was part of a lot of it, too.

I own that.

But it was tough to kind of call your boss and be like, hey, I'm not mentally well.

To be on a lathe that could kill me six ways from Sunday.

So you'd lie and pretend to be sick, and I'd flake out of jobs.

So that cycle weighed on me.

And then we're talking about COVID So I. I had this long tenure in the trades, and it was doing well.

Got laid off, like a lot of us.

And I had about 50 weeks of EI, just about a full year, which was, you know, good during COVID And my body was starting to kind of give up on the trades.

And you can see me right now, like, standing at my desk.

And that's kind of residual from.

From being a machinist, because I was freestanding for eight hours a day.

And I'm.

I'm used to it.

Like, my body doesn't like to sit for too long.

Yeah.

So.

So anyway, I decided to go back to school.

I enrolled at Athabasca University at that.

Around the time, like, when Twitter was still cool, I had grown a following tweeting about mental health, like men's mental health, or what it was like to go to therapy.

And, yeah, just I like connecting with people.

I always have.

And like every other white guy during COVID I started a podcast.

Yes.

And.

And that gained some traction to it.

I would bring on guests, like, way above my pay grade to kind of translate, you know, their expertise into that layman sort of way.

And anyway, I thought, hey, maybe there's something here.

So.

But I thought to work in mental health, you had to be a resource.

You had to be a counselor or therapist.

And I was willing to, you know, put that work in and do it.

But then I had like 20 weeks of EI left and seven years of school left.

So I'm like, what am I going to do?

And, you know, I got an opportunity from a woman who's.

Who's comms person found me on Twitter and said, hey, you should follow this guy.

And she does, you know, respectful workplace training.

Her name's Michelle Devlin, and she's.

She's been my mentor since day one and saw how I connected with people.

And she said, hey, do you want to come co.

Facilitate?

So on as the callback.

I always wanted to be a teacher.

I taught music, you know, in the evenings over the years.

Yeah.

And so I'd work in a little bit of mental health conversations into, like, the harassment and bullying topics that we'd cover together.

And Vive was kind of born, and I didn't know what it was going to be.

I just knew that maybe there was a place for me to, you know, speak, but, like, teach and develop content to kind of change the way that this topic is taught and presented.

And I.

The artist in me really enjoys that.

I like being creative with how it goes, and I do get to speak about my personal experiences.

I come at this work honestly.

But the professional expertise side with leadership training in that.

I mean, I put my due diligence in there as well.

For a guy who wasn't involved in that culture, I was in the trades, so it was a new world for me.

And Kelly, I'm a big try hard, so I really thought, you know, why not me?

I'll just do the best that I can and over deliver where I can.

And almost four years later, Vive has grown.

We've doubled every year.

We don't advertise you know, we're active on socials and that, but it's really a human centric.

I was the face of Vive for sure.

Yeah.

And people, you know, I was lucky people wanted to work with me.

They just.

I'm not everybody's flavor, but, you know, I got opportunities and, and now Vive has grown into, you know, its own thing.

It's a social enterprise.

We have a for profit side.

We do a ton of community work and our three pillars are, are like you mentioned, like communities, classrooms and workplaces.

And we give equal value to all of those.

Cause I, I think they're so integrated, so that's kind of where we are today.

And it's, it's surreal.

This is cathartic for me, Kelly, to like talk it out and be like, oh, look at that, look how far, how far I've come.

But, yeah, I'm pretty, pretty blessed and very grateful, man.

Yeah.

Every time I hear that story and I wanna, I wanna poke a little further into the story as well, for sure.

But every time I hear you say that, I'm just like, first off, thank you, thank you for being here.

Like, you know, for anybody struggling with mental health to the point of suicide, we're lucky, we're fortunate and lucky that you are still with us.

And you know, to anybody listening, if you're feeling that way, 100%, there's somebody, there's, there's an impact you still have to leave in this world.

There's still something incredible.

You know, you can just take this story from Chris today and hear how he, he went from that, from such a dark place in his life to now making such a massive impact in other people's lives.

And that can be you too.

That is YouTube.

I, I think we forget sometimes how impactful everybody's life really is.

It really is.

Everybody has a massive impact on the people around them and in some cases across continents.

And I think it's really important to remember that everybody has value.

You're so right.

And, and thank you for that.

I mean, gosh, yeah, like, I, I can take myself back.

I put in a lot of years of very quiet work and healing to kind of get to the point where, you know, in some of my keynotes, I do share my story or podcast like this, but that, that wasn't overnight.

I had a lot of work to do.

Yeah.

And, but it's worth it.

And it wasn't all work either.

I don't, I shouldn't frame it that way because, you know, that first one was pretty Heavy.

But, but to have someone look at your life objectively and be outside of what you're experiencing and kind of tell you about it is really neat.

And it's not, it's not scary.

It's just information.

Like, it's just inventory of, of who you are.

And I found that really empowering.

And, you know, we go through life, we still make mistakes.

I still have tough days.

Yeah.

You know, but it, There's.

There's so much that you can do and offer and.

Kelly, like, I, I'm gonna be honest.

Like, my story's not special.

Like, we all have a life story.

Anyone, any.

Anyone in the world could come on your podcast and like, blow our minds with an experience or, or a lesson that they learned.

I'm.

It's just my story.

But there's a lot that I've, I've grown from.

Like, I wasn't always this person.

I used to look back with a lot of regret on some things and with stuff with my parents, even, like, mending that bridge.

Took real effort and I commend them.

I love them so much.

Yeah.

And, but it was hard.

I had to realize that, you know, they were doing the best that they could too.

And, and just like any relationship in your life, it's worth fixing and it's.

There's lots that people can contribute.

Yeah.

That's what I have to say about that.

I want to go back to 20s.

Like, not go back to 20s.

20s was, was up and down.

But I want to go back to being 20.

I did lose friends at, in my 20s.

One to suicide for sure, one to a heart attack, others to drunk driving.

20s is hard.

I, I genuinely think as a man, the most risk any young person is at is in their early 20s.

I, I think that you think you're invincible.

You're doing the stupidest things.

You're not exactly, like, thinking about the future.

I'm a very different person today.

Honestly, at 20, I couldn't have even predicted the person I am today.

There's no way.

I, I didn't even know what this was.

Right.

Like, yes, it's crazy to think back to being 20 and then kind of forward, project yourself to today and realize that, like, you are somebody completely different than you ever thought you would be.

And I think that's the same for Everybody in their 20s.

It's such like, a weird place where you don't know who you are, what you're going to do, what you don't know.

A lot of the times you are living for the weekend you're living for that party, right?

Yeah.

And you're going to live forever.

And you know, I just want to.

I just wanted to mention that, like, during that time, I did lose people.

I lost a lot of people, a lot of close people.

And it was to stupid things like that.

Right.

To.

To a future that I think I. I guess what I'm getting at with this is I wish those people were still with us.

I wish that they could have seen their futures and their story was similar to yours.

It just ended in a different way.

That's really eloquently put.

And even going back to high school.

Ask any high school kid what, you know, their whole world is, their friend group or what people think of them.

And I, I was one of them.

And you just have no idea yet how far your antennas are going to reach and how much of the world you're going to experience and how much you're going to grow.

You have no idea.

And it's hard to explain that to somebody.

Yeah.

Because it's like trying to find the edge of the universe that's always expanding.

Right.

So I'm a big space nerd too.

So we bring on anybody from space industries we can find these days.

Yeah.

So the dark matter of life is what's pushing the universe further.

But it's you.

That was really beautifully put.

And then.

Yeah, I lost people along the way too.

And I also ruminated over what would have happened had I been successful and, and the impact that would have had on, you know, my brother and my parents and that My grandmother, who I'm very close to still, she's like my best friend and she was the one who always believed in me and remembered the honors kid.

And so I credit her a lot.

But even though our stories are all very different, there's people out there who've never experienced what I've been through and.

Yeah, the emotions that we feel and along the way, that's where we connect with people.

So you don't have to know what it's like to be unhoused, to know what it feels like to be.

To feel really alone and given up on.

That's where you can be compassionate with people.

You don't have to understand the details so much.

But we all know what it's like to feel overwhelming joy or to have somebody come back in your life that you've missed so much or to be just up against it and hopeless.

We know what that feels like fundamentally.

So if you're trying to connect with somebody, that's that's where you start.

Don't sweat the details so much, but that's where you empathize.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think.

Well, like you said before, we're all hiding.

We're all hiding.

Right?

Like, being our.

It's so funny.

I talk about it.

I literally have another live show that we do called Authentic Hustle.

It's a lot of fun.

Yeah, but we.

We talk about authenticity a lot and how it's really hard.

And even when people are being authentic, there's still stuff they're holding back.

There's still.

Oh, 100.

There's still your authentic face.

Sure.

But, like, there's still certain things that I'm not willing to talk about that other people are not willing to talk about.

And it doesn't mean that you're being inauthentic.

I think it just means that we all have to decide how authentic we want to be with the world based on our own comfort level.

And over time, you know, that might change.

You've spent so much time practicing being authentic that I think you really do show up in this.

I'm going to bear it all to the world, you know?

Talk to me.

How did you get there?

How.

How were you able to go from somebody who had hid something for so long, had been through so much trauma, to the person you are today?

I just.

I can't imagine what that transformation has to be like, and that bravery has to be like.

How do you find the bravery to be the person you are today?

That's a loaded question.

I'll caveat it by saying that, yes, it appears that I'm very open and authentic, and to a degree, I certainly am.

I've grown lots.

But you're right, I don't share everything.

And no one should, like, have boundaries.

And my.

My therapist gave me the best advice.

So we'd seen each other for a few years, and I told her about Vive and kind of what I wanted to do with my story, and she said, don't ever share anything that you haven't healed from.

So that motivated me so much.

I like that.

I like.

I like that as just a guideline

and motivated me to really put in some work so that I could be kind to myself.

Telling that story, it's embarrassing.

Like, really, I'm not proud of.

It's hard.

It's hard, and.

But, I mean, it's part of you.

So what's, like, what's in it for me?

And I'm.

I'm gonna be honest, and I share this with audiences, too.

Like, it's cathartic for me.

It's very validating.

All the quiet work that I did, all the mistakes I made, and the times I spent in my own head, all that stuff is validated.

When I got to the point, I'm like, okay, I can share this, and maybe there's some use to it, but I'm cautious.

And we should all have boundaries, Kelly.

You don't have to go up on a stage and share your trauma and life story.

That's not.

That's not how I frame it.

I guess it's a privilege to have that space and to see it make an impact.

But there is something in it for me, too, because it feels good.

And I'm practicing.

I wasn't always like this, you know, I wore a lot of masks, and I lied a lot, and I showed up as whatever version of Chris that I thought people needed or expected.

And it's been a real journey to.

To atone for some of that and to be humble enough to kind of embrace growth and give myself permission to be more true to myself.

It's a spectrum.

Right?

It's not.

We shouldn't frame it as, like, how did you become authentic?

It's like, I'm not there yet.

Like, it's a fish you can't catch.

Yeah.

So you.

You just work.

You point your needle towards it and you work towards it, but it is very liberating.

You don't have to remember as much.

You can just kind of show up.

And there's downsides, too, Kelly.

Like, there.

There are people who are quite taken aback by authenticity, and that's a real barrier, and that's something that doesn't get talked about a ton.

Yeah.

But there are people who can't wait to be themselves, and there's pushback.

Right.

So I love that.

I love that you brought up that.

It's not that there are people that push back.

It's so funny, because we were literally talking about this on this week's show, and.

And I was talking about, is it.

Can everybody truly be authentic?

Which is a stupid.

You would think it's a stupid thing, right?

Like, at the end of the day, of course, like, we should all be able to be authentic.

But I made the kind of.

The proposal that being truly authentic is actually a privilege, and it tends to be a privilege that's only awarded to people who have a certain level of status.

You know what I mean?

Like.

Like, for instance, I don't think that, like, an average employee to this day, even though we wish it was that Case can go in and tell their boss, you know, I.

You know, I'm struggling with these things, or.

Or I am who I am.

And if it rubs that employer the wrong way, whether they're being authentic or not, they may still get repercussions for it.

Absolutely right.

Whether they're direct or indirect.

And I think it's kind of crazy because I think on one level, and I wanted to really talk with you about this today, is that we are pushing mental health.

We are pushing.

People need to be able to be more open, but I still think that the world is not necessarily welcoming of those things and that the truly authentic people, the people that you see really being themselves, they had to earn that right.

They had to reach a level of status.

And I don't think it's fair, but I think it is the way it is.

It's like it's a.

Being truly authentic, being able to truly be yourself is a status symbol.

Yeah, I think it can be for sure.

There's so much to unpack with what you said there.

I know, I know.

Going back to, like, the repercussions, I just want to touch on that.

So I've.

I've facilitated, you know, fire halls, first responders, we talked about mental health, and one of the ways that we created safety so that they could be more authentic was to kick out hr, all their leadership, and just have the boots on the ground and that.

That fostered.

And I'm a third party, so, like, who am I?

They can say whatever they want.

Correct.

But the learning that happened and the healing that happened just from then having that space was.

That's psychological safety.

Right.

That's my wheelhouse.

And that's.

That's what you're always trying to create now.

No, you can't just go to every employer and bear your heart and hope it all turns out well.

We have social platitudes for a reason.

We.

We have certain barriers like, that are useful.

So when it comes to.

When we're trying to be authentic, what we're looking for is, like, acknowledgement and support somebody, like, the reassurance that somebody is looking at us as, like a.

With warts and all, just as a human being.

Yeah.

But when we ask someone, like, at the coffee shop, like, hey, how's your day going?

I'll have a.

You know, whatever.

We're not looking for their life story.

We're just kind of saying, like, hey, you're alive.

Me too.

Neat.

Need a coffee.

So.

But when we.

When we care about somebody and it's really beneficial, you know, to have that information.

There has to be something in it for you to be authentic.

We're human beings.

We're selfish.

There has to be something in it for you.

If we don't speak to that, you're never gonna change minds.

You can't just tell people, hey, you should be more authentic.

Why?

Like, what?

It's way easier to not be if it saves me, you know, a conversation or potential repercussions.

So that's the burning question.

Like, what's in it?

What's in it for me personally to be authentic?

I don't.

I felt very inauthentic for many years, and it weighed on me.

I'm not.

I'm not without a conscience.

I didn't like not showing up authentically.

Be myself, being honest.

Yeah.

So that was my shift.

I'm like.

I think I should move towards that area.

And I'm not entirely an open book.

I mean, my private life is private.

And there's things that are sacred in our lives, but connection is a really powerful thing.

And it's a snake that eats its own tail.

It really breeds itself.

And when you can, from a leadership standpoint, I like to teach them.

Like, I'll go first.

You know, like, if you feel like your team is really closed off from you, you're not getting all the information that you need to run the business or be a leader.

You have to model what you expect, and that means you might have to go first.

Doesn't mean you have to share your entire life story like I just did.

But maybe you have to share something.

That's how you build trust.

That's how people look at you and go, okay, you're.

You're a human being.

I don't want to be put on a pedestal, Kelly.

Like, I have many flaws, like, we all do.

We all do.

But that's important sometimes just to find it within yourself and practice.

I'll go first.

Yeah, I love it.

You know, like, as.

It's so funny because I don't know if you know him.

Do you know Brad Warren?

He's out of Calgary.

I don't.

I know the name, though, but I don't know.

Okay.

He owns a company called Our Invisible Empire.

He's an awesome guy.

But it was funny because we were talking once and.

And his mentor once told him, and it's so.

It's so relevant to business development.

And I'm not sure how we're ever going to truly get away from it, but he.

He mentioned that Mickey Mouse can never have A bad day.

And I always quote Brad when I say that, because that is his line, but he says, Mickey Mouse can never have a bad day.

If you're at Disneyland, Mickey Mouse is having the best day ever, no matter whether the person inside that suit is having, you know, the worst day they've ever had.

Right.

And I think as a business developer.

Yeah.

I clawed my way through my career to where I'm at today.

Being able to put on that smile, that face, even though behind it, I might be having the worst day ever.

I might have just lost a friend.

I might have just had, you know, lost a whole bunch of money in the stock market or whatever.

I'm.

I'm having a horrible day behind the mask.

Right.

But when I.

When it was time to hook up for those meetings, when it was time to show up in the boardroom, when it was time, I had to learn how to put on a brave face.

And I think so many people to this day.

And this is what I meant by can you truly be authentic?

Because as a business developer, you can't really show up to that boardroom wearing your face how you're wearing your feelings on your face.

Right.

Like, people are not.

And it's unfortunate, but people are just not receptive.

If you show up in a room and you're.

You're crying or you're having.

You're having a moment.

Right.

I don't know.

Do you think we'll ever get there?

Yeah.

Again, I don't like to frame anything as, like, a destination, but what I do see happening is that there's some real benefits to showing up authentically.

Even if you're in a leadership position, there's a lot of value.

Again, like, what's in it for a leader to do that?

Because it might be uncomfortable.

There might be people, you know, leading from beside or within your team is a great way to provide opportunity for.

For people to step up.

And everybody's waiting for that chance to.

To level up, you know, so when people lean on me or whatever, and I have the capacity to be there for them and like it selfishly, it feels good.

And I'm like, hey, I could be there for it.

You know, there's the reassurance that maybe they'll be there for you as well, but there's something in it for you to try.

And before that happens, you have to foster that kind of environment.

And to be honest, Kelly, like, I. I like to think I have a pretty good business reputation, and then just a personal reputation.

I'm not everybody's flavor.

And I'm, you know, I used to really try to be.

And I think we all do.

I think we all try to be liked.

Right?

No one wants to go into a room and be the person who's not liked.

That's right.

And.

But you know what?

I like people who, I think a lot of us like people who are just going to walk with their own walk.

You know, they can fit in.

They could rub shoulder.

I could rub shoulders in a machine shop or a C suite boardroom.

Right?

But I, I can own both of those things.

I can own the Alberta accent that comes out of the side of my mouth after a pint.

Right?

I can.

I can be that.

And I had a. I'll be honest with you, Kelly, like, straight up between me and you.

Like, I had a really tough morning today.

Was it Friday, April 4th?

Really tough morning.

I had a tough evening and then woke up kind of with the residuals of that and a couple of heavy conversations.

And my whole day before this recording was just packed and I was a bit on the verge.

I have all these regulation skills and why am I sharing that?

Because I can.

I don't really feel that anyone's going to judge me for that because we've all had days like that.

I was really looking forward to talking with you, but that's the fact, like, three hours ago, like, I was.

I was a bit of a mess.

I'm on my second coffee and just my head was swirling.

So even just sharing something like that as a leader or a colleague or whatever can go a long way to be like, oh, yeah, Like, I'm not asking for sympathy.

I'm fine.

You can add all those caveats, too, but just be like, oh, yeah, I kind of went through it for a couple hours.

Oh, dude, me too.

We're going to talk about it after.

Me, too.

Yeah, some.

You know what?

That's.

But you know what?

So much of that is.

So much of that is just life, right?

Like, it's just not always sunshine and rainbows.

Sometimes it's a thunderstorm, sometimes it's a torrential downpour, sometimes it's a hurricane.

But life goes on.

I want to go back and just talk with you about that situation.

I think I was.

I want to say I was literally 20, literally 20 when my one friend died from suicide.

And I remember just, I was toast.

I didn't even want to get out of bed.

He's one of my closest friends, gone all through high school together.

Right.

Wow.

And I just.

And been through a Lot of crazy things, right?

Like, it was one of those things where it's like, I should have died probably six times.

Yeah.

And when it's somebody, you know, it's like, holy cow.

Right?

And I remember.

I think I didn't.

I'd been in bed.

I just didn't get out of bed.

And it was like a week.

And my dad came into my room and he gave me the best advice he.

He ever gave me.

And he just said, look, you got to get up, Kelly.

Today you got to get up, and you got to do the thing you would have done anyway.

And today it's going to be hard, and tomorrow it's going to be hard, and the next day it's going to be hard, but you just got to get up and do it.

And one day you're going to wake up and it's not going to be that hard, and the next day it's going to be even less hard.

And one day you're going to wake up and it's not going to be hard at all.

But you got to keep going.

You just got to keep going.

I still get chills when I.

When I think about that.

What he was saying was, your life has to go on.

No matter what just happened, your life has to go on.

And the secret to doing that sometimes is fake it till you make it is.

Is just get up and do the thing you don't want to do until it's not.

And until.

Until you can do it again, you know?

Well, we.

We talk about modeling, right?

So when we have mentors or people we look up to and have behavior modeled for us, like, as a couple of men, you know, like, I wouldn't know what any of this looks like if I didn't have, like, amazing, like, women in my life.

My mom and my grandma, my two best friends were girls in junior high.

Like, yeah, they.

Their communication skills were amazing.

We just talked.

And then I go to hockey practice, be like, how are we feeling, boys?

And they're like, I don't know, itchy.

And it's like, so you gotta practice, right?

But it's.

Man.

Yeah, there's.

I mean, there's.

We gotta build resilience.

And like, that's left out of a lot of the mental health and wellness space because it's a bit of a. I don't wanna say taboo, but how do you tell somebody to pull up their bootstraps?

That's kind of how we, like, frame it.

And it's not about that.

It's.

You only fail when you fail to try.

Yeah.

And I worked for a guy, a machinist, best machinist I ever worked for, last six years of my tenure.

And that was his favorite saying.

We took on work that no one else would touch.

Highest risk, worst steel to cut.

Like, just gross R and D stuff.

And worked out the risk was so high, and no other shop would touch it.

And he was like, yeah, give it to us.

And we were four guys in that shop.

And he's like, we only fail when we fail to try.

So that I think about that sentence every day, and I feel like your dad was kind of in that same mindset, because it does get easier, and it's always worse in our minds, too.

I ruminate lots.

I spend too much time in here.

Right?

Yeah.

But out there, everybody's just winging it.

We're all trying our best.

We're all winging it.

At the highest boardroom level.

We are all winging it.

I think that was one of the most surprising things, as I became an executive myself, was that I realized that all these people, they're.

They're just doing the best they can.

They don't have all the answers.

They're just trying to move forward.

Right.

I think that was really surprising because as a kid, I think I looked up to executives, especially as just a worker, and being like, those guys have all the answers they know.

Exactly.

And it's like, once you get old enough to be in that room, you're like, oh, they don't have the answers either.

We're all just doing the best we

can hope for getting that parent.

Every parent will tell you that, too.

It's like, oh, my parents seem so smart until I got to grade three math, you know, but that's.

That's good to remember.

Right.

Is we're all just trying our best, and that is enough.

Like, your best.

Yeah.

Your best day today is put pants on.

Like, you can celebrate that.

That's right.

I got my pants on today.

Things are gonna happen.

You know, I put pants on for you, Kelly.

I'm, like, proud of myself.

You know, if you have my camera falls off my monitor here, we're okay.

Right.

And it's like, you know, I was.

I was 18 at that time.

19, just about.

I guess you would have probably been in your 20s.

Yep.

And I just remember, like, growing up in Alberta in that time, and I think me and you were both a product of the exact same generation that, you know, Alberta.

Strong generation, right?

Just.

Just shut your mouth, put your nose to the grindstone and get her done.

And a lot of that was, suck it up, buttercup.

Right?

Like, that was really the motto of this place.

And I don't know if that was the model of all Canada, but it was definitely the motto of Alberta.

And I used to pride myself, Chris, on being tough, on being able to suck it up, on being able to push through even the hardest stuff.

Yeah, just like.

Yeah, right.

Like, you're right.

Like, I think there are still, like, there's still points of pride just growing up in that time to being able to be like, you know, what today sucked, or I'm dealing with some really horrible things.

But I was still able to show up and get her done and move this business forward, move my client forward, whatever it is, you know, show up for my family that day, whatever.

The point is.

And I guess my question to you is, is that still what we're doing?

I don't know, man.

Like, sometimes I wonder what was the right move?

Was that not the right move to be able to just push through and get things done and be tough?

Like, or was it just overwhelmingly negative?

No, man.

I love that question.

I'll tell you about a conversation I had with my dad.

So him and I, he was, he was this guy I looked up to.

He was tough.

And you know, I.

When I grew up playing hockey, I was tough.

I was a stay at home defenseman.

I hit, I fought, I scrapped.

You know, like what?

I. I played a whole season with a shoulder that fell out every game.

Oh, wow.

A whole season.

I heard it in the first practice of the, of the year.

And my dad, you know, would send me back out there and pop it back in.

He didn't know how.

He's like, I don't figure out, like.

And I.

We were sitting on Christmas Eve a few years ago.

I don't think I've ever told this story publicly, but this was monumental in our relationship.

And the girls had all gone to bed and we're up drinking rum, we're a few in.

And I was reminiscing about the hockey days.

Cause that's when we really bonded.

Yeah.

And you know, I said, you know, dad, there were some times I'd try out for a team, didn't have a good tryout, and the, you know, the van ride home would be really silent and heavy and he was disappointed.

But I said, you know, you really brought out the best in me.

And I know that it wasn't maybe in the best way.

It was the way that, you know, you knew.

Only knew how.

But I said it really.

You really pushed me.

And I knew I was the best hockey player I could be.

I was the toughest I could be.

And he puts his rum down, and he started crying.

And I'm trying not to right now, but it was really beautiful.

I'd never seen him cry.

And he gets up and he stands over the sink, and I walk over to him.

I said, what's going on?

No, it's okay, dad.

You really put some of those good values in me.

And he shook his head.

He's like, no, Chris.

He's like, no, no.

He's like, I'm sorry.

And I'm still trying to reassure him.

And I'm like, no.

I think some of it was.

Helped me toughen up a little bit.

And he said I was too tough.

He's like, I was too tough.

Too tough too often.

And we never talked about it again.

One of my favorite moments of humility from him.

So all that to say.

To answer your question, I think it's important to test our mettle and our proverbial envelope changes.

We grow over time.

Sometimes we're.

I'm resilient in ways that.

Kelly, you might crumble and vice versa.

Right.

Some people don't like flying, but they're great on a boat.

I have no sea legs, but I love planes.

Our fear is kind of.

We do need to know where our limits are.

And it's just that inventory.

It's just information.

Yeah.

So even if you don't overcome something, you know where you're at, and that's empowering.

And you know where to get up to next time to try it again.

Yeah.

Yeah, man.

I. Oh, my.

Yeah.

Let's talk about parenting for a second.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I am not the parent I thought I was or I thought I was going to be.

That's the right word.

Holy crap.

Am I not the parent I thought I was going to be?

Go on.

I look back to being a kid and thinking, like, oh, I'll be so easygoing.

I'll be able to just, like, let them do whatever they want to do.

Right.

Like, I remember.

I remember having this conversation with my mom, telling her how much of a better parent I was going to be than her.

Right.

Holy crap, man.

Like, I. I am a hard parent, and I recognize that.

You know, I have three older stepsons now.

They're 11, 9, and 8, and they're a handful.

I have a newborn who's a little over a year old.

Wow.

We have one on the way.

Right.

And it's just like, I have.

Oh, man.

I don't even know.

Like, I. I don't know sometimes how to.

How to parent in a softer way, even though I want to be able to parent in a softer way.

It's like World War three a lot of the time in our house.

Right.

And it is hard.

Like, let me just give a gigantic shout out to every father out there, every mother out there who's come before us who are hearing this right now.

I'm right there with you.

Parenting is flipping hard, and making the right decision is really hard.

And I think being able to be a compassionate parent as often as possible is a choice, but it's a damn hard choice to make.

My fiance is so much of a better parent than I am.

Thank God.

Working on it.

But, like, you just.

I.

Okay.

The reason I'm saying this right now is because I heard what you said about your father, and I don't want to have to say that to my kid.

And yet I feel like one day I'm gonna have to say that to my kid.

I.

Man, I'm gonna push back on you a little bit just because we're friends.

So.

You're a great parent.

Every parent has their own style, and you're doing the best that you can, too.

But the way that.

There's probably some similarities to the way that you were brought up as to how you parent.

That's the only model you have to go on, aside from like YouTube and Facebook chats and don't do that.

So you're.

And.

But you found a partner who compliments your style.

And, you know, I don't think there's one better or worse, but it's the blend that they'll be thankful for, hopefully.

Yeah.

And I think every parent, as perfect as they could be, could always sit down across from their kid 20 years later and apologize for something.

Yeah.

So I, you know, I wouldn't sweat.

You know, what it looks like day to day.

It's hard, right?

It is.

And shout out to step parents and caregivers as well.

Yeah.

Because they don't get enough love either.

And, you know, my stepmom and dad, like, I love them both so much, and we didn't always get along, but I respect that they were trying their best too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's hard.

It's definitely the hardest job.

Parenting is harder than any other job, bar non.

Period.

Like, it is just hard.

And it's never Ending.

And it's relentless, right?

Like, it's just.

It doesn't pay great, but there's.

It doesn't pay great.

No, it's expensive, actually.

It's like, when I played in a band, it was very expensive to, like, do what I love, too.

So, Chris, you've done something really incredible, and I, you know, hats off, man.

Hats off.

You know, you.

You went from.

You did a very interesting pivot, man.

Like, let me just start off by saying I know there's people listening who are thinking, wait, you were a tradesman for a decade, and then you completely did something different, not to mention went out on your own, founded your own company in a completely different industry, right?

Yeah.

There are entrepreneurs and people who are aspiring to be entrepreneurs or maybe are making that jump right now who are hearing this story, Chris, and thinking, how do I do that?

How do I.

Let's say they're an electrician and they want to be a mental health expert, or they want to do a complete career change and maybe found a company with something they're more passionate about.

Not many people can say that they've done what you've done, Chris.

And I can say that right now, at this point, I've interviewed, you know, 200 people, and.

And this has come up like a pivot this big, maybe once.

It's not something you see every day.

Please, for the people listening who want to make a major life shift, how did you do it?

I really appreciate that, Kelly.

When you put it like that, it kind of.

It gives me pause, and I'm like, oh, that's pretty neat.

It's a big.

It's a big shift as an entrepreneur.

Like, I've had my head down for four years.

Like, I was all in.

So I was on ei and with no inclination or hope, I didn't want to go back to the trades.

I was kind of done.

I was all.

All in.

And that.

That's a great motivator, but I wouldn't recommend it.

If you could do a little bit more planning ahead of time, you know, that would have been great.

But two things I think served me really well, and you gotta get lucky, too.

But one of them was just recognizing how people saw me and kind of going after that and thinking there was something to it.

And what I mean by that is, you know, I was just a guy on Twitter who was talking about mental health.

Once in a while, I post pictures of my dog and, like, just life.

But it was very.

It was just me.

It was that authenticity piece.

I felt Very free.

And people would hop into my DMs and they'd be going through some real things.

And these are Internet strangers.

Yeah.

I don't have kids.

I love kids, but I just, like, had different plans, so I would spend my evening, like, just chatting with strangers or talking about things, connecting with them.

Like, I really loved that.

Yeah.

And when people see you and you start to recognize, okay, people see me as like a maybe a safe person, somebody who has some knowledge in an area and they're coming to you for that consistently.

That's a clue on something that you're skilled at, but maybe something you can pursue.

And, you know, I. I don't think I'm going to be an NHL player anymore, as bad as I want that.

But it did help me with all the options out there, like, focus in on, well, I think I'm good at connecting or teaching and, you know, I'm patient and.

And that sort of thing.

So it sort of led me to say, okay, I think I could do something in the mental health sphere.

Yeah.

But starting a business was terrifying, man.

Like, I took out two lines of credit.

I also broke up with my partner at that time.

Wow.

And moved out on my own.

You know, we're still great friends, but it was just Covid.

Had a lot of impact.

Right.

But anyway, left my best friend and we.

I went for it.

So anyway, I was fully leveraged and, you know, I had about 20k.

I did, you know, my psych health and safety training through CMHA gave me a little designation.

It's a certificate.

But it gave me some expertise that I could build on my creativity and so anyway, what was Chris at that time?

I was a musician.

I was somebody who could connect with people.

I love to create.

I love to just try my best with everything.

I'm fun at Monopoly, by the way.

Super fun.

So I, I went for it.

And I. I believed every day that I would fail.

But there were people who I recognized as, like, mentors, people who genuinely, you know, liked me as a person or just wanted to help.

And I gave them all the time to learn.

I said very little in those first.

That first year and a half.

Yeah.

And I watched how people approached me and they wanted, like a lunch and learn on men's mental health or something like that.

And I just tried my hardest.

I'm like, you only have one shot.

That damn Eminem song was, like, always playing in my head.

Yeah.

And every opportunity was such a gift and a privilege.

People are giving you their time, which is the most Valuable thing that we have.

So I treated everything like a privilege, and I still do.

So I had.

And I was intentional about a couple things, Kelly, like workplaces, communities, and classrooms.

I'm like, I think I can offer something to each of those.

I could have picked a niche.

I just do workplace mental health or I just do.

Not for profit community stuff.

But I'm like, no, that.

One, that wouldn't be fulfilling.

I like variety.

But two, I felt like I can contribute to all of them.

So what's the risk?

There is that people would see me as a jack of all trades, master of none.

I was willing to take that risk.

I'm like, what if I achieve at a high level, Deliver at a high level for all three?

So that's what I set out to do.

And word of mouth and connecting with people was all I've done since.

And, you know, we have clients that are multinational, big clients across Canada.

I had a meeting with Hockey Canada this morning.

We just worked with them and, you know, like, how grateful am I?

Like, every day.

It's just awesome.

But I've worked harder now than I ever have in my life.

Yeah.

And we.

We didn't really dive into, like, the stress and burnout of it.

But I'm sure on almost all of your podcasts, like, it comes up in the entrepreneurial space, and that's a real danger.

I've burnt out, for sure.

I teach these workshops on burnout, and I have ran myself into the ground twice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's not without its risks.

And you need good people around you to recognize when you're in that danger zone.

And like I said, when people are given the opportunity to help, it's shocking.

They can't wait to step up because they feel important, they feel valued.

So why wouldn't you utilize those relationships and.

And ask for help?

I had to teach myself that because I was not.

I've done everything myself my whole life.

Yeah.

And that was the real lesson.

Oh, me too, man.

Me too.

I do it all.

Still not perfect at it.

Yeah, no, I. Yeah, I don't know.

I.

You're right.

Like, we all have to get better at asking for help.

I think we're all pretty prideful.

Most, especially entrepreneurs are prideful.

We don't like to admit that we don't have all the answers.

We don't like to admit that we need that, but absolutely, dude, I've.

I've hit the wall plenty of times.

Plenty of times.

Like, it's.

I would say it's a cycle, really.

It's that up and down roller coaster cycle that is entrepreneurship.

But, yeah, it's.

It's interesting because the pivot you made.

I wanted to just ask you, was there, like a big catalyst moment?

Because I think that's what a lot of people struggle with, is it's one thing to make the choice to become an entrepreneur, it's another thing to take that first action.

And usually that first action really takes a kick in the ass.

For me, it was being.

I got pulled into a room at a company that I worked at for 10 years and got told, we don't know what the next year looks like.

It's looking scary.

You've been with us a long time.

We want to make sure that, you know, we're setting you up for success here.

But understand that setting you up for success here might mean that you don't have a job here in two to three months.

So do you have a plan or do you have an alternative option?

I. I launched capital.

That was the kick in the butt I needed to do that.

And I.

The rest is history.

It's probably one of the best decisions I've ever made.

When I look back, it was one of the best opportunities that employer could have ever done for me.

Like, I. I look back at that moment and I still thank my boss to that day for giving me the opportunity to make a choice.

Instead of making that choice for me, which was really cool, they hired me back, actually, as.

As my first contract as well, to kind of help me get on my feet.

Like, to this day, I owe.

I owe Angrity inspection a big thank you for helping me become the person I am today.

But I needed the kick in the butt.

That was my kick in the butt.

Was there a moment for you that was a kick, you know, a catalyst for the switch?

If no one's told you lately, I'm really proud of you, man.

That's awesome.

That's a great.

That's a great success story, too.

Wow.

Was there a catalyst, I mean, like, getting laid off?

I was so disenchanted with machining.

Like, it was.

I was napping after work every day.

My body was just like, how do you do this every day?

And it's not like I'm old.

It just like, it takes its toll mentally and everything.

So when I got that layoff slip, you know, and I was close with my boss and we're both hugging, and he was so sad, and I went home and my partner was so supportive, and she's like, well, just like, take some time.

And so I did.

And, you know, I'm on connecting with people, and I came up with, like, a Vive logo.

And Vive, by the way, the name, kind of a silly name, but it comes from survive and revive, and that's, like, two.

Two words important to me.

So, anyway, the catalyst was.

It was given to me.

I had no choice but to not work and have time to think, and I'm very grateful for that.

I was always a guy who, like, valued security.

I never went without a job more than a week, ever.

I couldn't afford to either.

Yeah.

But it was.

I don't know, just something clicked, and I'm like, why?

Why not me?

Like, life's short.

Like you.

I. I've lost some friends along the way, and the first one is the most impactful.

You know, who's, like, your age or somebody close to you?

You're like, holy cow.

Like, it is really fleeting.

Yeah.

And I wanted to do something that I got up every day voluntarily for, and that's.

To this day, I get up and I'm.

I can't wait.

Like, every day is different.

And, yeah, that's been the motivator.

But, yeah, just having it all taken away from me during COVID Yeah.

I was like, well, if you're gonna shift, like, now would be the time, you know?

Well, that's it.

Right.

Like, mine was the same.

Like, it was the.

It was that moment.

It was the catalyst of that wild moment, for sure.

But I think it changed a lot of lives.

You know, a lot of people started podcasts, like you mentioned.

A lot of people went out on their own.

I think it really was a kick in the butt for a lot of people to do something different, and I hope a lot of people made a choice that they're happy with me too.

But you know what?

Again, just to try to do something totally for yourself is so liberating and empowering, and it's wild.

And it.

You.

You're in it, and you're like, oh, my gosh.

You have those moments where you're like, I can't believe I'm.

I get to sleep in on a Tuesday.

And, like, my.

There's all these little gifts and privileges along the way.

And, you know, I was very fortunate, Kelly, that I'm still doing my first try four years later.

Yeah.

And four years from now, like, who.

Who knows?

But I'm.

It all changes.

Yeah, it can all change.

Yeah.

But the way I set up my company, like, I thought of that too, and I said, if I can be as diverse as I can.

And, like, in my intro, you know, I do comedy and music.

All that's integrated with our company, with engagement.

And I do corporate events, and I produce podcasts for the Cross Cancer Institute.

I do video production and LMS training, and I keynote.

And why not?

Like, why, why not?

And if you do it all well, then, like, do that.

Setting yourself up for success takes some intentionality, for sure.

No.

Like, we were like, if you're talking about workplace training, DEI was the thing and remained the thing for a number of years.

There was nobody.

I shouldn't say nobody, but very few companies who were like, oh, for sure.

Mental health.

Come on in.

And I stuck it in my business name.

But I'm like, it's so universal.

We all have it.

And I couldn't say, honestly that I predicted like you did, the AI would push us back to that human connection place.

But you were right, and I'm grateful that you were and that we've ended up here.

The pendulum will always swing.

Yeah.

So how do you keep moving forward and do things that get you up in the morning?

So what gets you up in the morning?

What's your favorite part of your job?

I love being an entrepreneur, dude.

I really do.

You know, just like you, I'm doing.

I don't know what I'd be doing if I wasn't doing this.

And then, heck, I found podcasting, and you did, too.

And podcasting has been.

I look forward to it, man.

Like, always.

Like, I.

Has it been hard?

Yeah.

You know, after we released 225 episodes today were recorded almost a full year into the future with our guest interview.

I like, I absolutely love this experience.

I've had plenty of days where I.

Where I wasn't in the moment, but once again, they're fleeting and far between.

I may have a day that I don't want to do my show, but then I'll have eight days where I love doing my show, this being one of them.

And it's just.

It's funny how it's.

It.

It's funny, like you said, how when you find something you love doing, you can't wait to get up and do it.

And I think every entrepreneur, that's what you should aspire for.

Try and find the Thing that you can't wait to get up and do.

Will there be hard days?

Yeah.

But there will be really, really good days if you're passionate about it too.

Totally, man.

And I think that is what entrepreneurship offers that maybe a lot of jobs can't offer, is that when it's your own baby and it's the thing you want to be doing, you could do it all day long and never even question the time.

And sometimes you have to do it all day long because you got to get paid or whatever you got to deliver.

And that's right.

You know, there's a trade off.

But you're right.

And I don't want to romanticize entrepreneurship too much.

Like, you and I are examples of, of success.

And we could say, yeah, we worked hard and we deserve it, but we've also been fortunate and a lot of things have to fall in place.

People have great ideas all the time that just aren't ready or they're not baked the right way.

There's all these things.

So my advice, even if you're, even if you don't go all in, get up every day for something.

So I did a lot of volunteer work just to connect with people in the mental health community.

And I'd go to these little community events or like commemorative this or that, some mental health, YG mental health.

And I would just show up and be around it.

And I was still machining at the time, but that got me up.

It was something of interest.

I still jammed with my, my old band mates.