Cryptocurrency marks the start of a new era of technology-driven markets with the potential to disrupt traditional market strategies. However, the technology is at a nascent stage and is undergoing changes and developments. In this episode of Diving Into Crypto, Nadja Bester, co-founder of the AdLunam IDO launchpad talks about the evolution and implementation of blockchain technology across different verticals.

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Diving into Crypto - Round 2

00:23

JP

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome welcome welcome to our next episode, our second episode of Diving Into Crypto. This is JP from AdLunam, Inc. Speaking to you about Web3. The last episode that we had, which was actually the first episode that we had our CEO of AdLunam, Inc. Nadja Bester, on the show. After the show, we ran a poll and we asked the audience, who would you like to see as your next speaker? And 40% of the audience in that room voted for Nadja. So, ladies and gentlemen, here she is back again, speaking to us about Web3. Let's welcome Nadja Bester.

01:07

Nadja

Thank you very much. I'm more than happy to see that at least 40% of our audience don't think I talk too much, but I'm definitely going to talk too much again today. For those who did think that, yeah, I'm here again, very happy to be back and very excited to once again be talking with you guys about just different aspects of the industry. So let's see what today holds. Take it away.

01:33

JP

Thank you. Thank you, Nadja. So, ladies and gentlemen, please hit that reaction button. Give us a like to welcome Nadja to the stage. Please remember, all views expressed on the show are for education purposes and opinions shared belong to that of the speaker. Right? So without further ado, let's welcome Nadja back again with the first point. Nadja, the last time that were here, were speaking about crypto in general, adoption, sustainability, how it could take over the world. Through that conversation, there was a realization that because every aspect of tech required people who were skilled in tech, the crypto world seems to have an opportunity for those that are not really so tech savvy, right, or who have not been studied or educated as developers. What is a role, you think, for non technical people in the crypto space and how are they impacting it?

02:42

Nadja

03:50

Nadja

So a lot of people for this reason and it's very understandable and even expected, feels overwhelmed and this impostor syndrome can rear its hydra heads. Really if we are talking about the tech industry and if you think about technology in general and how it's impacted business, technology doesn't mean architects and engineers and developers and no one else because then tech wouldn't have been as big as it is. If you look at for example, the global, let's say the ICT workforce, I mean there are millions and millions of people worldwide working in tech and for sure a huge number of these people are non technical, right? They're not all out there coding and developing new systems. So crypto and Web3 as this larger umbrella is no different. I'd really like to break which is a very common misconception, that if you want to deliver any noteworthy value in a technical industry you need to be technical yourself.

05:06

Nadja

Because if you've ever worked with developers, with engineers, with scientists even you know that those people cannot do what they do without huge amounts of input from non technical folks down the line.

05:25

JP

Exactly.

05:26

Nadja

This is the same in any industry. It is especially true in technology and especially even more so in crypto because let's put it this way if we are working in Web3 to build something out of nothing well actually it's not technically true. We are not building something out of nothing. We are overhauling legacy systems. We are creating something new out of the ashes of things that don't work and we are really collaboratively dreaming up new alternatives. It can't just be about the technology, right? Because in the long run, yes, the technology is like this foundational backbone but it's not the be all, end all of how the public will interact with Web3. I mean, if you look at mass adoption in fact hinges on meeting people where they are instead of trying to onboard them onto very complex tech systems that they don't understand. They can't make head or tails of it.

06:38

Nadja

So I think the reality is that Web3 is only going to work if we continue to have this influx of professionals from other industries that are bringing a real wealth of experience, of soft skills, of best practices that they already gained in other industries, but they are simultaneously committing to doing things better this time around in this industry. I would say that the value of non technical people, it's absolutely huge. Whoever you are, whatever skills you have or don't have there for sure is a place for you in this industry.

07:25

JP

I would agree with you Nadja. I like the fact that you've put a spotlight on the fact that firstly the tech industry and ICT as a whole, its fundamental is to be a backbone to support the industries out there and that's what gives it the most amount of value, right? You also put a spotlight on the collaborative process of having all of these industries integrated. Putting that in perspective, I'm certain that somebody who's new or other who's on the outside looking to get in is looking for an entry point and so what according to you, would be that entry point for them?

08:16

Nadja

It brings to mind a discussion I had recently about a location independent lifestyle which is something that I've been practicing for many years and someone asked me how to get well, they asked for advice on how to get started. I summarized my journey in a high level overview and I was called out for not being specific enough. The irony of that for me was that each person's journey is so specific and so unique to them that there's really no level of specificity that will have a blanket application. As a disclaimer I would say that exactly the same principle applies here. I think that it really would look extremely different for different people and I think the more you talk to people who are in the industry and the more you hear these origin stories the more you realize that there's no single point of entry.

09:16

Nadja

Like wherever you are, there probably is a way for you to get in. If I look at my own journey a lot of this has relied on and again as a disclaimer this is going to be quite so called generic advice because it really depends on your own circumstances. I think for me I've relied a lot on listening to my intuition, on being open to new experiences. I am as a person insatiably curious and that's always stood me in good stead. I've always been eager to pioneer my way into something new instead of having stability and security. Not to say that you cannot have stability and security in crypto or in any industry. So this is again what I'm saying. What applies to me might not apply to someone else. So this is my way. I don't think it's the way now for me, I think the first thing, if I can really give general advice that might apply to most people, it's important to get clarity around what's important to you.

10:27

Nadja

This is for sure true for getting into anything. Right? For me getting into crypto was more because I resonated with this daring philosophy of radical freedom and inclusive empowerment even with something that's as ingrained as the global financial system which supposedly was this monolith that can't be moved and here comes crypto and it does have this effect. The other thing that was also really important to me was lifestyle freedom because at the point of me entering crypto, I was already traveling. I realized that this industry remote work would always be acceptable and keep in mind this was before COVID normalized, working from home. Most jobs and even when I had my own business, most clients still wanted to work face to face. These two things like freedom of how can I put this? Freedom of self in many different aspects of one's life. I think for me that really cemented the fact that I found my place.

11:42

Nadja

Now, for me, freedom and empowerment, these are two of my top values. The reason that I have been able to weather the storms of being in this industry which let's face it, is sometimes massive roller coaster, it's because it aligns closely with what I value. Advice to other people, I think it's all about knowing what's important to you because once you identify what it is you want and what it is you want to do with your life, then you can identify, you can seek out and you can also create these pathways to make it happen. Because I think that Web3, it's such a new space and because it's so new, it's very welcoming because there aren't a lot of people in it, although this is changing on a daily basis, but it's being created from scratch and there's a lot of room. It's like when you go into I don't know if you play games, let's even use a specific game.

12:44

Nadja

If you go into Decentraland and you were in early, you bought like prime real estate but if you get in now the prices are much higher and it's not as readily available. I think that the first thing is really if what you want, you can really just go out there and start creating it. Second, yes, there is this idea of it's very difficult to wrap your head around what the heck is going on? If you start learning, where do you even start? This is always the question, right? But I think with crypto and with Web3 it doesn't matter. Maybe your jam is designed or maybe it's community or marketing writing strategy, whatever the case may be. Actually you don't even need to wait for opportunities to come to you because when I say that you can make your own look for whatever low hanging fruit is out there to help you kind of learn on the job.

13:50

Nadja

If you don't get the opportunity to get a job, start creating, make videos, publish articles, whatever it is to start making a name for yourself because there's not enough human resources in this industry to cater to what companies need. So demand still exceeds supply. The minute that you start putting yourself out there like companies are going to recognize you and opportunities are going to start coming to you. If I compare for example, what we are doing AdLunam. I mean, the majority of people in our team are not crypto natives, and AdLunam is their first experience working in this industry. I often get the feedback that, yes, the first few months definitely are challenging. There's no better place to learn than to immerse yourself in a real business environment where you get to understand what is legitimately important to understand rather than feel overwhelmed. Because there's a million different things that you feel you need to know, but in reality you don't.

15:00

Nadja

Because no one knows it all and no one has to know it all. I think maybe I know I spoke a lot. Just to add here. AdLunam does have an internship program, and this is where we on ramp new people who are new to the space. There are companies offering these kind of things. Look out for those opportunities. Create your own. There's a very many different ways of getting into Web3.

15:32

JP

Thank you, Nadja. Right. So, ladies and gentlemen, you heard it here first. If you are curious about getting into the Web3 space, understanding what crypto is about, AdLunam does have an internship program that's happening at this point, and you can reach out to Nadja or to the AdLunam team, and they would be able to guide you through that process. That being said, also, please remember to hit that reaction button and give us a reaction about your thoughts on these particular ideas being shared. Also, not yet what you've said, I think if were to compress it in some way, is find out what's your value to be able to realize the value. Right? I mean, I know that's a corny line, forgive me for saying it, but that would be my takeaway. If I were to put that in this stay curious and find out your values to get into really realize value in Web3.

16:33

JP

When you speak about this being a space where it is creative, where it's welcoming and getting people to come in, the first thought that goes to most of our minds is about the metaverse, right? What but could you tell us a little about that? I mean, what is the metaverse? We've heard a lot of explanations, but what does it mean to you? Nadja.

17:00

Nadja

Yes. Well, who knows? The exciting thing about the metaverse is it means so many different things to different people. It probably will always be the case if we think about social media and the trajectory that it's followed from Facebook's being started in a college dormitory until today, everyone and their grandmother is on there, and now everyone's leaving because the grandmother is on there. We know that social media as we know it is really coming to an end. We might still be active on various platforms, but it's problematic and it's outdated for a variety of reasons. And this is really because society is evolving and really, these Web2 platforms are not growing and adapting with us because very often they work against us. We are the product, we are the people. Our data is being sold, our opinions are being swayed. It really is used as a tool against us.

18:07

Nadja

If we think about the metaverse and what the metaverse is, in short, really, I was joking earlier, but who knows because it isn't clearly defined as yet. We in the industry, we are defining it by building it, right? So it can go in any direction. If I take my son, for example, my son is a gamer. To him the metaverse might look very different. I mean, I can already envision what it's going to look like for him because we are seeing innovation in the gaming or in the GameFi areas. But what about me? I'm a 30 something year old woman. My idea of gaming is single game of Tetris every three months. Who is going to cater to me and what I need? Now, the exciting thing is I don't even know what I need. I don't know what I need in the metaverse. I mean, I don't think I need the metaverse.

19:05

Nadja

But you know what? When someone creates something that speaks to my need, even if I haven't identified it, I'll recognize it when I see it. In this sense, I think there's this whole new world that we are uncovering by creating it. Yeah, I mean, where it starts is not where it's going to end. Because of Hollywood and the world of fiction, we imagine worlds like Ready Player One or I don't know if you've seen or you read this really great novel or movie. The book is called The Futurological Congress. It's by a Polish sci-fi writer, Stanisław Lem. And in the movie what's her name? Robin Wrightpen. She was in the Hollywood version. This kind of just shameless plug for this movie and book that I have nothing to do with, really, check it out. It's great. These are the conceptions that we have based on what other people have imagined and has been passed down to us.

20:13

Nadja

And we've consumed it passively. In reality, because we now have the ability to create these things, the metaverse could become a million different things to a million different people. And really, to me, I mean, as someone who is in the industry and sees these changes as they happen, this is the thing that excites me the most because we are collectively co creating the metaverse, Web3, this whole industry and we can take it in any direction we want. Yeah, I have no idea what it is or where it's going to go, but I will keep you up to date. So stay tuned.

20:53

JP

Thank you for that, Nadja. Appreciate the honesty. Because if that's the perspective, right? I mean, the metaverse is so many things to so many people. It can be whatever you turn it into. It could be apart from, like you said, from a gamer's point of view, it could mean something different from an artist's point of view and from a functional point of view of any regular person, it could have all those meanings. So, ladies and gentlemen, that is what the metaverse is. It is the space in which you will turn it into the space that you want it to be. Okay. We'll be talking about things that are so exciting and that involves so many people. There's always a question from the point of view of it being generated. Of course, fundamentally, most of the companies or the projects that develop this do require to have early backers and funding on that front.

21:52

JP

One of the of course, the largest groups of funding is where it comes to venture capitalists, right? So for a project like, for a project like AdLunam, what is the quantum of interest that you see in a new launch pad? It as easy as it is with the types of projects out there? Or are there certain things that certain perspectives that you can offer? I hope that's made some sense.

22:29

Nadja

I didn't quite catch the question. If you could rephrase it slightly, that would be great.

22:35

JP

Okay, let me dial that back. Right. The question that was asked was, when it comes to VCs having an interest in funding projects like a launch pad that adunum is as opposed to maybe other projects out there, what is the quantum of interest you see in the exciting work that you're doing?

22:59

Nadja

So, if I understand your question correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the interest in launch pads, and maybe I can just talk a little bit about really the role that a launch pad plays in the crypto space or in the Web3 industry. If you think back to the early days of cryptocurrency, of altcoins, and people coming into this industry realizing that there's this possibility that people have to get funding in a way that is not possible in the legacy financial system. As a retail investor, you are able to invest directly into a project in a way that you cannot do in other industries because there's just so much more regulation around it. Now, this is great and has been great. However, with every industry, there are always people who don't have everyone else's interest at heart, but more focused on what's in it for them.

24:04

Nadja

I think in terms of crypto, the same unfortunately happened that there was this time back when ICOs were very popular and it wasn't always with bad intentions. The reality is that a lot of projects, in fact, I would say the majority of projects, sadly raised funds and it came to nothing.

24:29

JP

Okay.

24:35

Nadja

Can you hear me?

24:36

JP

Yes. We will blank your segment out. And now a word from our sponsors.

24:45

Nadja

So, uhm yeah, I think maybe that was my queue to wrap up my question. If you look at the history of funding in crypto, so before launch pads came into being, there was no hedge between retail investors who had all these possibilities to invest in projects and projects that were looking to get funding from the public. Now that launch pads are there, and launch pads play a very important role in the sense that they offer due diligence, that is additional to retail investors know that they should look to what VCs for example, have invested in the project. This is not always so clear because if you see a name, you don't know if that VC is a good actor or a bad actor. You don't really know much if you are not operating at that level. The thing about a launch pad is because they are in the business of launching projects, ultimately what ends up happening is they as a business, they cannot be sustainable if they are not going to back projects that have sustainability or that have at least the retail investors best interest at heart.

26:04

Nadja

In terms of seeing more of an interest in launch pads, for sure this is why you are seeing a lot of interest from retail investors investing through a launch pad. This is why you are seeing interest from projects using a launch pad in order to launch themselves. This is also, yes, why you are seeing a lot of interest from VCs investing in launch pads. The caveat here is it's one thing to start up a new launch pad, but it's really quite another to have the stakeholders best interests at heart. I think what we have been seeing in this space is there's a lot of launch pads that create the business because it's a good business to be in for whatever reason. Are they truly supporting projects and are they truly supporting retail investors? And that is the open question. So in terms of, for example, what we've been doing at AdLunam, really we've built into our business model with our engage to earn model, with our proof of attention allocation mechanism.

27:08

Nadja

The sense that in order for a launch pad to have value, it needs to serve projects and it needs to serve retail investors by bringing them together collaboratively so that they don't there's sometimes a friction because projects want investors funds and investors want the returns that investing in projects bring them. It's not as if they really are able to give each other the value add that is possible because it's simply not, the system has not been built that way. I think ultimately in order to make launch pads more valuable is launch pads really need to evolve to cater to truly the needs of both of these stakeholders. I'm not sure if this has answered your question, so I hope I didn't go off on a complete tangent here.

28:01

JP

Actually, you did kind of shed a lot of light on the role and function that we see should play when it comes to projects like AdLunam's and Launch pads in particular, and also how they begin to shape the ecosystem through a market force point of view. Right. But if I were to ask you, Nadja, between the VCs, which we know have the ability to put down a large quantum of funding into projects, and the end or retail investor, the little guys who want to get into a piece of that action and that small amount means so much to them, right. Between the two of these, which one do you think shapes the changing face of the cryptoverse more? Which one has a larger impact?

29:04

Nadja

Yeah, this is a really great question and I wish I had first, I wish I had an easier answer, and second, I wish I had a better answer because I think it depends on where you as a person are coming from. For me, crypto is very much about empowering the person on the ground.

29:29

JP

Right.

29:29

Nadja

I believe that power in other industries and when I say power, I mean the ability to get things that you want, whether this is opportunities or whether this is more of a financial incentive. Power is not easy to come by in other industries. In crypto it has been designed in such a way that it is easier for people to get that power, often in the sense of self empowerment. I mean, crypto has changed lives and it will continue to change lives. The problem, I think, is the more that things become very institutionalized and this is why I say I wish I had a more positive answer. I think that unfortunately, it is becoming more skewed towards one end. I think that for retail investors it is becoming more difficult for a variety of different reasons, but primarily is that we are inheriting and I want to add something on this point, but let me just finish my sentence.

30:43

Nadja

We are inheriting the same kind of thinking that we had in other industries with each person for themselves. Now, in terms of inheriting this, what does that mean? Because we are the ones bringing it from these other industries. It's up to us who we are going to empower. Are we only going to empower VCs? Are we only going to empower Wales? Are we only going to empower the projects? Because ultimately the retail investor is in so many ways what differentiates this industry from other industries. I said earlier that as a retail investor you are able to invest in crypto in a way you cannot do in other industries. I think the problem is that a lot of projects and a lot of retail sorry, not retail, a lot of institutional investors are negating the role that retail investors have, treating investors more as a number than really offering them those opportunities that they are seeking.

31:49

Nadja

So, yeah, I think ultimately it comes down to choices that are made by individual companies and by individual investors. The general trend, sadly, seems to be more skewed in the direction of institutions and centralized, organized bodies. I think this is something that definitely needs attention and something that needs to shift.

32:14

JP

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yes. I suppose human behavior is going to repeat itself no matter which industry we are part of or have been part of coming to crypto. That always is going to be there. Again, between the last two answers, that the last two answers and the insights that you shared, there is more opportunity for retail investors. And I think that the more that we focus on the fact that retail investors have the ability to shape it, I do believe that at some point, Nadja, you're leading us to the thought that the mass adoption of crypto can at least begin through this particular journey. Out of curiosity and interest, thank you. Thank you for leading us down this rabbit hole as the proverbial rabbit hole and sharing that insight with us. Okay, we've come to the end of the show, ladies and gentlemen, but we have the opportunity to ask Nadja a question, and I'm going to take a chance with the audience listening into the room.

33:21

JP

If you have a question that you would like to share with Nadja, of course, please just tweet that out there or raise your hand for an opportunity to speak. Right, Nadja. In the meantime, we're going to give the audience a minute to come up with a question which they would like to ask you.

33:39

Nadja

In the meantime, I'm going to take a breath because I think I have not breathed since we started. Once again, thank you for having me on as a guest, even though I tend to talk too much.

33:54

JP

It's always a pleasure having you on the show, Nadja. Of course, this is just the second episode, but I'm certain this is not going to be the last one where we have you on board. Okay, here it is. EthBabe. Wants to know, Nadja, which is your favorite type of project at AdLunam? Is it NFTs gaming or any other over to you, Nadja?

34:21

Nadja

Well, that would be telling if I told you, if I gave you too many details, like choosing a favorite kid, right? Exactly. Luckily, I have only one, so he always wins. If I had more than one, it would be a difficult choice. I think for me, and this is probably true for probably anyone investing into projects is it really is not so much about what the project is doing, but who is doing it. We have projects that we work with that have really superhero teams. They are on the ball. They are not only experienced in other industries and in business and. Creating something new in general, whether that's a business endeavor or whether they've done other projects, even if it's not business related, where they've kind of taken something from ideation all the way to fruition. I think it's also that there's this very strong commitment to whatever their vision is.

35:28

Nadja

There are very often projects that okay, NFTs are really hot right now or the metaverse is very popular or okay, GameFi is getting all the attention so let's go all out and all in and let's create something that we can get funding for. The reality is that thing, it shows. You might not think so. You might think that you are walking the walk and talking the talk, but it's very clear to someone and to people who work with a lot of startups and who have worked in the startup world, even if it's not even in crypto. It's very obvious when someone has that conviction because they are building something for XYZ reason, or whether they are building it simply because let's see how much I can get out of this. Now this is something that we have seen in crypto and I mean it's worked which is why people keep on doing it.

36:22

Nadja

The more the industry matures and especially the more there's a down market, this is the time when all of these thinking and behaviors are weed out. I don't know what is it I would say... how can I put this? It's not a good time in terms of the market right now. But what we are seeing at AdLunam, for example, is the projects that are coming to us now during this time are projects that irrespective of the downturn in the market, believe in what it is they are building. So, yes, to answer your question, what I am most passionate about in terms of the projects that we are working with are those founders who have a vision of something that they want to build. And they say, you know what? Even if it isn't going to be easy, I believe in this and I'm going to see it through to the end.

37:22

Nadja

Because if a project can make it through a market like this, for sure they can make it through the good times.

37:31

JP

Spot on. Nadja, thank you. Thank you for that answer because I'm certain we all agree that is exactly the fundamental to look for. Look for a team that is working together despite the adversity, despite not having the best conditions to work with but are still pulling through and those are the ones that are going to make it in the end. With that, ladies and gentlemen, we've come to the end of our show. Nadja once again, thank you for being on our show and I hope you've had as much fun this time as you did the last time that you were here and I hope that continues.

38:07

Nadja

This would mean that I would have to have more fun every single time, and that would be your responsibility. So let's not start comparing. No, I had an absolute great time, as always. I just love connecting with the AdLunam community in general. It's been a pleasure to spend this time with you and I look forward to seeing what's next and look forward to being back on the show at some point as well.

38:34

JP

Thank you once again. Nadja. Ladies and gentlemen, this is JP from AdLunam, Inc. Speaking to you about Web3. See you again next week, the exact same time. Cheers.