Today's guest is an internationally recognized trainer, clinician, exhibition rider, and author. Dr. Maria Katsamanis will share her training approach and outline her approach spelled out in her recent books!

For the Legislative and Regulatory Update, find out where we stand with Federal Staffing at USDA and how the horse industry may be impacted.

HORSES IN THE MORNING Episode 3685 –Show Notes and Links:

• Your Hosts: Julie Broadway (President) and Emily Stearns (Health, Welfare, and Regulatory Affairs Liaison) of the American Horse Council
• Employment & Internships - The American Horse Council
• Scholarships - The American Horse Council
• Guest: Dr. Maria Katsamanis | Website | Book Riding in Dignity | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube
• Subscribe to the American Horse Council Podcast - Search American Horse Council Podcast on your podcast player.
• Follow Horse Radio Network on Facebook or follow Horses In The Morning on Facebook
• Follow the American Horses Council on Facebook, Instagram and X (formerly Twitter)

Time Stamps:

01:00 - Book Club Talk

06:30 - Dr. Maria Katsamanis

37:39 - How government cuts affect horse world

You are listening to the Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network family.

What a beautiful day for horses in the morning.

You are listening to the number one.

Horse podcast in the world.

Here's your entertaining look at the horse.

World and the people in it.

I'm Julie Broadway, president, president of the American Horse Council.

And I'm Emily Stearns, health, welfare and regulatory affairs liaison for the American Horse Council.

Happy spring, everyone.

It's time to hear from the American Horse Council in this monthly episode of Horses in the Morning.

So Emily, before we get chatting with our guest today, I thought it might be worth having a little bit of a book club conversation.

So maybe our listeners know or don't that the American Horse Council staff, we are small but mighty.

We have a little book club and we every staff meeting have a conversation about a book that we're reading.

We've been reading Made to Stick.

We've, we've been meeting Start, which is another great business book, but one on one for me and you.

I'm wondering about what you and I are reading.

So we took that information and we made this nice little word cloud.

And surprisingly what we heard was that the way that people got introduced to horses was through books.

Yes, and I must admit I'm somewhat biased as someone who grew up kind of feasting on horse books, but I was really excited to see it show up as a leading cause caused of these horse crazy kids.

Well, on that list were some simple terms like books.

But more specifically we also heard of course, Black Beauty and Misty and Saddle Club.

So Emily, what horse books got you hooked in this thing?

Well, I'm definitely a little biased.

Black Beauty is at top of my list.

And you know this Julie, but I started kind of accidentally collecting copies of Black Beauty a while ago, so it wasn't intentional.

But I, I think I'm up to eight copies now and they're all ranging with different illustrations.

Ah, of course.

Like, like, what do they call it?

Bibliophil wood?

Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's, we're riding that fine line between collecting and hoarding, I think.

But for a more recently published topic, and you know this from our little staff book club is that I'm a big fantasy book nerd.

And Tamora Pierce, when I was a kid, published a series called Wild Magic back in the early 90s.

And that series focused on a girl that can talk to animals.

And she had a saucy pony named Cloud that goes on all her adventures with her and gives her loss of sass back as she kind of goes along.

And I definitely wanted my own cloud from that.

So, Julie, what were on your horse book list as a kid?

So before we go any further, I have to say saucy to me applies to every pony in the out there.

But I have to remind folks that I grew up off of Barrier island in North Carolina.

That's where this southern accent comes from.

And so there weren't a lot of horses around and I wasn't really exposed to horses till I got to be a teenager.

So I was a little late into the horse industry.

But what I was fascinated by was seahorses.

So there were tons of books where I read all about sea life and seahorses really resonated with me.

So I can't give you a specific book, Emily, but I can tell you horses in some shape or form have always been part of my background.

Seahorses especially.

I mean, I didn't grow up on a bear island.

I don't have a fun accent, but I did grow up on Cape Cod and on the beach as well.

And so the farm I grew up riding at was Seahorse Farm.

And there was.

Seahorse is a very big theme in the horse world on Cape Cod.

Yeah.

So these last couple of Disney movies that have had people riding seahorses, amazing to me.

And I'm an adult.

So, Emily, with that, let's introduce our guest.

But first, let's take a commercial break.

Well, so today's first episode is brought to you by Poplus from World Quest Equestrian facilities, race courses, exhibition buildings and entertainment venues, the team at Poplis uses its world renowned expertise to create some of the most recognizable immersive equine and entertainment experiences across the globe.

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You can learn more by visiting poplars.com and this is a shout out to our lovely guy, Todd Gorell, who's the head of the equestrian division at Poplars.

If you guys need a great speaker, call me up and I'll put you in touch with Todd.

Because fabulous, fabulous architectural, beautiful design work that they do for things.

So reach out, folks.

Our guest today is Dr.

Maria Katsimanis, an internationally recognized horse trainer, clinician, exhibition rider and author.

She holds a doctorate in clinical psychology and serves as a clinical assistant professor at Rutgers Medical School.

And her unique training approach, termed molecular equitation, integrates principles of biofeedback and psychophysiology to enhance the horse rider connection.

Dr.

Katsimanis has authored two books, the Alchemy of Lightness and Riding and Dignity.

And she has also participated as a display rider in Queen Elizabeth II's Diamond Jubilee at Windsor Castle.

Currently she resides in New Jersey where she continues to train horses, conduct clinics and offer online coaching.

So welcome Maria.

And Maria, we have to ask, based on our kind of intro book club discussion, what books got you into horses as a kid?

Oh, my absolute favorite, Emily, was the Black Stallion.

In fact, it was the book that helped me learn English.

And I would read it and reread it so many times I would take it out of the library that it got worn down and so on.

As an adult, I collected Walter Farley's, you know, the.

Anyone.

I could get my hands on the whole edition.

So it gets, it gets addictive, kind of building up all the different copies you can find.

Yeah.

Yes.

Julie's upset because now I've found a partner in crime to support my hoarding habit.

Her habit.

So, Maria, to kick us off, when we think about connecting with horses, many people jump straight to the conclusion that it's either about treats or physical cues.

How do you define true connection with a horse?

So, Julie, what I see is oftentimes people will equate treats with trust, and that's oftentimes the first dilemma.

And recognizing that just like the books that we love, they're written from a place in people having connected in a certain way.

And it's not necessarily through treats that we have a bond with horses that is quite timeless and to trust in that and to build a bond a little bit outside of the treats, because treats don't often time lead to trust.

Presence, our presence is not necessarily equated to Presence, as in giving presence.

The number one thing I find is that people oftentimes don't trust that we can go beyond treats.

So that's step number one is sometimes treats can become a building block, a liaison.

But at some point, we have to recognize we do have that connection.

We do have the bond.

Horses are mammals.

They're herd animals.

We can be part of their herd, and that's part of connecting with them.

So I want to repeat so people know there's a difference.

In case you did not understand Dr.

Maria's accent or mine, she's talking about the difference between being present presence versus presence, like giving gifts presence.

And I think that's an important distinction that's there.

And she also shared with me that horses read our energy, not just our actions.

So I think there's a unique kind of conversation there around how we as humans read what we think horses react to versus how horses truly react.

So, Emily, you got the second question.

Yeah, and.

And before I jump on the second question, I think I love how non discipline specific this all is.

Right?

So I've always said, you know, you ask 100 horse people, you get 100 answers in regards to literally any question you have whatsoever.

But the ideas that Dr.

Katsimanis are talking about are really, they're discipline neutral, they are plan neutral.

You know, if you're out with your retired horse in the paddock or trying to build something up to go compete, you know, it's.

It's that thought that kind of applies to everything.

So, Dr.

Casamanis, you talk a lot about how we show up for our horses and what that means.

So kind of, could you explain a little further what you mean when you say show up for our horses?

And how can people kind of prepare mentally before we even step into the barn?

Right.

Great question.

So, number one, recognize that, you know, energy and presence, this is not an abstract idea.

People in quantum physics understand this.

People like Dr.

Greg Braden.

And it's a whole body of literature of people and researchers studying communication and cross cultural communication, but interspecial communication.

We know, for example, that there's something called the torsing field, which means that our communication can be faster than the speed of light.

It's 10 times faster than the speed of light.

Our energetic thought, our intention, for example.

So our presence is so key.

I oftentimes will hear people say, you know, I come to the horse because I get, I relax when I'm with the horse.

But, but let's think about how we can come a little bit more Present to the horse.

And the reason that's important is horses are very, very in the moment creatures.

So anything that we do to become present, like in terms of being in the here and now, not worrying about the future, not worrying about what we did in the past, just focusing on how wonderful it is to be here and now makes us like them.

They recognize there's a vibration.

If you put electrodes in your brain in the moment when you're being present, or during something like mindfulness training, or let's say a deep breathing or just praying, for example, if we hook your brain up to electrodes, you will be in a state similar to a horse because they're very, very present.

They're in the now.

You'll see them react to something, their environment.

But they're not worrying about the future in the way we have as humans, because we have metacognition and they're not lamenting about the past.

So when you come energetically and they'll recognize those biomarkers, whether it's breath or through your heart patterns, which is affected by your thoughts, they will recognize you as one of them when you are present.

And that's key.

People like people who are like them.

Horses will trust something when they recognize it as similar to them.

So if you want to be horse like, cultivate in whatever way you can, whether it's prayer, meditation, or whatever your ideology is, find a way to become present.

I have all sorts of ideas for people and we certainly use that in our barn.

That help, but it's non denominational.

But it helps you be more horse like.

Oh, I love that.

And it reminds me, I read a study, oh a couple years ago maybe about cardiac syncing between horses and people and horses and other horses that when they're relaxed around each other, their heart rates can sync up a little more.

And horses have very slow heart rates compared to ours.

But our heart rates can slow when they're around.

When we're around them and when they're around each other, their heart rates tend to match each other, which I think is really interesting.

There's something called, you're right, the horse's heart is about five times larger than our own horses and humans, we actually sync up in terms of respiration rate and heart rate, except that theirs won't get elevated unless there's an immediate stressor or that they match with ours.

There's a concept in the physiology world called coherence.

If I'm really anxious and I'm within a certain range of distance from a horse, my Heart might influence their heart pattern, make them more elevated as a creature.

In general, their physiology won't react unless there's some trigger.

We, on the other hand, as humans, can seem on the surface okay, smiling, but have elevations in our heart rate.

And so there's.

There's a really unique thing.

And the study you're referring to, Emily, a lot of it came from an organization called the HeartMath Institute, where they looked at, for example, there's something called heart rate variability.

And because we're mammals, we share that particular way of looking at the heart pattern.

And the horse, because it's heart, it's five times larger than our own, has a certain, what they call a bubble called the Taurus.

If you take your hand and you extend it out and you draw kind of a circle around yourself, that sphere is called a Taurus, the horse's Taurus, this bubble that surrounds them is about five times larger than our own.

And when we meet, they overlap our Tauruses.

And so we influence them, they influence us.

And that Taurus is what scientists see as one way of communicating.

That's how that kind of torsion, feel that 10 times faster than light happens.

So there's a scientific explanation for our bond, for the way we communicate, how our thoughts, intentions and emotions influence the horse.

And there's also a scientific understanding about how horses can help us find more grounding, resonance, peace, relaxation, all those concepts that draw us to them in the first place.

And, and I think Julie probably is going to regret having this, having us in this conversation, because I don't think she warned you that I'm also a science nerd.

So now we're just going to get stuck in this feedback loop of talking back and forth about, about the science of how we interact with our horses.

But I, I love that idea of the torsion field and all of that.

Julie, do you have another question?

So I was just sitting here thinking.

So what resonates with me about this is, is that my husband and I also have dogs that we show.

And the dog breeder handler that we use tried to articulate to him.

Although Dr.

Maria, he has seen me show horses for years trying to articulate to him that what he feels and what his mindset is goes right down the leash to the dog.

So when he's showing the dog, that's what the dog's reacting to.

And he did not get that till the first time he showed a dog.

And that's what my horse trainer has always said is whatever your feeling, whatever your mindset is Whatever your emotion is that's going through the reins to your horse and they're responding to that.

So if you're feeling anxious, you're going to feel anxious.

If you're feeling uncomfortable, whatever the words are, that's the way it's going to work.

So what you're saying totally resonates with me.

It's a major thing that I think most horse owners need to really acknowledge is that their personal emotional state is going to be a part of the relationship they're having with the horse.

So I totally, totally get where you're coming from with this.

It's amazing.

I think, too, having been a coach and a trainer and now having my horses at home and just kind of enjoying them by myself without anybody else around, there's that thing too, where people get so focused on trying to relax that they then get anxious about trying to relax and be around their horse.

And they come into this energy with their horses of, I'm gonna be relaxed.

It's gonna be great.

I'm gonna be so relaxed.

But you're gonna take a deep breath.

And it's gonna be fun.

Yeah.

That you're working yourself out, trying to relax just to be around your horse.

And in my head, I.

I think about less about being relaxed and more about being casual, you know, so there's.

Actually legitimately such a rationale around this.

One of the things that happens as writers, and particularly as writers and people that have had a fall or have had.

Even trainers that I work with, sometimes they'll come and say, maria, I really worry.

I'm scared.

It's in the back of my mind always, how can I help myself?

Be more to feel that relaxation where my horse doesn't get the cue that I'm panicking.

And something that happens in writing that people don't really maybe appreciate as much is that our brain, the way our brain organizes all, and our brain literally has to synchronize to sit on a horse.

And when we do, we activate certain brain parts that are unique to writing.

So one of the things that happens is our visual motor senses have to take in both ambient and focal points.

The big picture, the big scope and then of focus and the ability of the brain to go back and forth between big picture, small picture, big picture, small picture gets clouded when we are anxious or when we have cerebral blood flow disturbances caused by breath holding or anxiety.

So instead of telling somebody to calm down or to just be calm, relax, relax.

I.

Or just deep breathe.

The worst is deep breathe that.

That chest breathing is the worst, instead, breathe like a horse.

Because what happens is it's.

The problem is not the amount of oxygen you're getting in.

It's expelling too much CO2.

So I always tell instructors, instead of telling your students to deep breathe, tell them to breathe like a horse.

Just second is to blink your eyes and lick your lips and swallow.

Blinking your eyes, licking your lips and swallowing will break that focalization that happens when we get a little anxious or tense or worried when we ride.

Those two things in combination are deal breakers, game changers in terms of building a more physiologically compatible system in place to help you when you get anxious.

And your horse will immediately respond to that.

Blink your eyes, licking lips, and swallowing.

And when you feel like taking a deep breath, it'll break this breath holding and the tension.

And especially people that are sitting on very hot horses, horses that are a little bit explosive, the worst thing you can do is actually take that deep breath.

That's usually when the horse goes, oh, my God.

And there's a whole body of literature in terms of breath work to explain what happens and why the horse reacts when we.

When we physiologically do things like tense or.

Or deep breathe.

The things that.

That makes perfect sense now that you've articulated it.

I totally see if I take in a deep breath that sounds like I'm getting anxious, and the horse goes, oh, okay, wait a minute.

Now something's coming.

Yes.

Okay.

It's.

I think it's like when you're sitting on the horse and you feel them take that deep breath, and their rib cage kind of swells under your legs, and then they don't let it out, and they just hold it, and you're just sitting there waiting for the explosion, the inevitable explosion.

Or plastic bag or squirrel ghost.

I have to confess, guys, in my later career of showing horses, I got really anxious before I went into the ring, and we'd go in the warmup ring, and my horse would go around, and I'd have to say to myself, it's only five minutes.

It's only five minutes.

And that made me just excel and say, I can do this.

It's okay.

It's five minutes.

And it changed the whole way my horse and I interacted, because I just kind of let it go.

And so I get totally where Dr.

Maria is coming from.

It's amazing.

Okay, Emily, you got the next question.

So we're talking about relaxing and presence, not presence.

And I think one thing we haven't really touched on yet is trust and how this kind of all works together with, with trust between the horse and their handler or rider.

So what are some things people can do to build trust with their horse both in and out of the saddle?

And I, I think another question I'm going to kind of throw out there, just philosophically, is when, when we're talking about trust with our horse and our horse with us, what does that look like?

So in terms of a companion and a riding.

And a riding relationship, what we do with the horse is so, Is so unique because we're building a muscle called focused attention, for lack of a better word.

I know that viewers might say, well, that's not the right term, but when you think of what is it that we're doing?

We're taking a creature who has a strong fight or flight response, the flight response in particular.

And when they don't understand something, they're looking to someone to make a decision and they run or whatever they do.

We want to be that person that they check in with.

And if we say, oh, buddy, that's just a leaf in the wind, no worries, then they'll trust that.

So when I think of leadership, I think of, how can I create or enhance a relationship with a horse in such a way that when there's trouble in the midst, when they don't understand something before they run, they can check in with me, and my word may matter.

How can I build that muscle between us, that relationship, that my opinion may alter his decision?

Now, a horse will be a horse.

Even if I said, don't worry about it, buddy, they may go, but they may not go that far.

And that's, trust me, how do we build it?

I mean, I want to know my friend so deeply.

I want to understand his habits.

I want to understand what makes him happy.

And I ask those questions, what can I do to make you more comfortable?

Are you happy?

And that comes with observing something day in, day out and to notice their patterns.

So in the world of emotional therapy, they use an acronym called spuds, like the potato spuds.

And we look for S stands for shifts, P for patterns, U, unique D discrepancies, S for our stuff.

But the two that matter in terms of building trust are the first two letters of that acronym, which is shifts, patterns.

And we all have them.

Mammals are creatures of habit.

And if you're not good at this, because it's a skill, by the way, and as a therapist, that's one of the things we, we learn over a 12 course period in therapy, in school.

I have a doctorate in this, so it comes a little bit more naturally for me.

But we're observing non verbal behavior in other people so that we can then get to know them on a deep level.

Not just what they say, but what they're doing, their little nuances and habits.

And the same thing for a horse, you want to be able.

And again, it's sitting with them, sitting for a while, not doing anything, not putting the pressure of being able to observe them as they eat, being able to observe them in the field with their friend, investing in good groundwork education for yourself.

So for example, for me, the type of lunge work that we would do where I can observe the animal day in, day out, how they move, so that when there is an issue, I instantly see it because it's breaking the pattern of the day before.

So lunge work where you're observing their gaits so that you can notice immediately when there is a budding problem before even it becomes a problem.

You say, oh, he seems sore today.

Well, you noticing your horse so deeply, noticing where he needs to be scratched before he asks for it, noticing that he's worried about that leaf in the wind before he runs builds trust.

So something that I'll do is notice his habits, notice his patterns.

Just when he turns to look to his back, I might run and scratch there and see.

Is that what you want, my friend?

Is that when all of a sudden he thinks I'm in his head, all of a sudden he realized I am, I'm interested, I'm invested, I care to understand his needs and wants and desires.

I become a friend.

So he is going to show me what he loves, he's going to show me what he fears and I'm going to be right there to guide that, acknowledge it and have a plan to move him forward where he's out of danger and that builds trust.

My first thought is, so I have mare that is very much about that, right?

So if she trusts the person she's with to make the smart choices, I think of it this way.

I had someone old trainer describe her as a survivalist, right?

So she'd be a great survivor out being feral.

And if she trusts the person she's with, she is bomb proof because she understands that, you know, I, it's not a herd leader type thing, it's.

She's putting her faith in you to keep the horse eating monsters in the woods from getting her when you're out on the trail.

And if she doesn't trust the person she's with, you're cooked.

Every, every fluttering bird Every leaf, every rock.

You know, she.

She is pretty convinced that she's on her own.

Every man for himself.

You're out.

So that that idea of trust plays so many different ways.

And then the other thing you just kind of triggered me to think about is when.

When I was training and coaching, I talked about empathy a lot and being empathetic with your horse without over anthropomorphizing them.

So still, you know, so keeping science and understanding how their brains work in that.

But I would have some kids.

I'm just not clicking on my horse today.

He's not doing what I'm listening.

And I, you know, I turn them and I ask, what if he's got a headache?

What if he's got something?

Maybe he slept wrong.

Maybe he, you know, had a very bad discussion with one of his paddock mates.

And you have no idea what they're thinking about.

You know, it's.

It's understanding that we can't read their minds.

And sometimes you just have to call it a day and move on and do something else.

Absolutely.

And I think what you said, Emily, is right on.

We don't realize we have unconsciously perhaps inherited this idea of livestock.

And while, yes, they're livestock, we have a unique relationship with horses in that it's one of the few avatar animals in the world.

And we have a long standing history of building civilizations and in that thousands of years of practice, of coexisting, and we forget that they too, have their own little life outside of our needs.

So I love that you say that.

So we're getting close to our time, so I'm gonna, like, jump ahead and ask for someone listening today.

Dr.

Maria, what's the one thing they could do differently the next time they are with their horse?

What's the big takeaway today that they should be mindful of?

Oh, okay.

I love that, Julia.

Okay.

Okay.

So if I had to nail one thing down, that would super duper help.

And it goes back to kind of one of the original questions you asked was, how can we become a little bit more present?

How can we be in the now if you're not somebody who's praying and you're not out there meditating, how can you get in that zone that makes you more horse like and more recognizable to the horse?

Because just like, they're exercising and building muscles, and we're building muscles of things like focused attention for a horse.

We have our homework to do.

So what's our homework?

How do we stay present?

You know, just before you.

You're in your car and you're excited to get into the barn.

Take that five or 10 minutes to sit in your car for a moment.

And I say Most everybody has YouTube.

If you have a phone, go on YouTube and just type in the search bar.

4, 3, 2Hz 432Hz 44 32Hz.

If you think of, we talked about things like the Taurean energy and the Taurus and there's the Schumann resonance.

There's all these earth bound resonances that exist and horses feel those things.

So if you put 432 Hz YouTube will give you this one with a lotus plant purple one.

Just sit and listen to that for a few minutes and allow your mind to notice.

Embedded in that video is the 432HZ.

432HZ is an electromagnetic wave, that electro frequency, I'm sorry, that's of nature.

So it just gets your brain, your electric, your circuitry starting to align with theirs.

Starts to get you to slow down a bit.

You start looking out your window and you notice the colors differently.

You start to notice that your thoughts start to shift to now.

Instead of, you know, you gotta go home and cook or there's bills to pay or oh my God, that was awful what happened five years ago when you lost your car or whatever it is.

It gets you to start focusing on now and that will make you a lot more recognizable and you won't drag in all this stuff to your horse because horses sense these things.

They sense your thoughts.

Your thoughts influence your heart pattern, they influence your breathing.

And we can transfer a lot of worry to our horse and then therefore to our ride.

So in order to create a blank slate, cultivate the habit of getting just your brain, your brain waves in a place of now.

And if you're not used to that, just put that 432 hertz.

Just sit back in your car just for five minutes, allow yourself, your mind to wander and you start to notice how you start to feel the comfort in your body.

You start to feel your own body, your own breath.

You start to notice yourself and that's being in the now.

That's going to be recognizable to your horse.

That's going to make you more horse.

Like that's going to start creating a little bit of a bond.

You become part of the herd instead of this thing they have to cope with and deal with and detox from afterwards.

I think that's awesome.

I think it's amazing how you have articulated in such a concise way what we all need to do to connect with the horse instead of transferring what we're going through to the horse back up and think through what we want to bring to that relationship and how we want to sort of make that work.

That's I'm fascinated.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

So everybody, just know that there are some great takeaways.

She's got a fantastic book called Writing and Dignity.

It's available on Amazon.

You will find her link and her contact information in the show notes after the podcast today.

So we're delighted to have you and we encourage you guys to really reach out to us and to Dr.

Maria to learn more.

So thank you.

Dr.

Maria, thank you so much for having me.

Julie and Emily, thank you.

Well, after that fantastic interview, this episode is brought to you, of course, by the American Horse Council Marketing Alliance.

The horse industry is a broad, far reaching industry that touches many labs, from horse enthusiasts to spectators, to those who serve the industry through their volunteerism or through employment in the industry.

The Marketing alliance was built with the understanding that a thriving and robust industry benefits all who are part of it and with the objective to create lifelong engagement in the industry.

The alliance introduced the hashtag hereforhorses and we have a website called hereforhorses.org which has a video designed to foster interest in horses.

Most importantly, Here for Horses shares pathways for visitors to make a connection with a horse either as a spectator or as a hands on participant within the industry.

Potential and current horse enthusiasts can now find information on events, education, volunteer opportunities and places to learn to ride or drive a horse.

This event is organized by the American Horse Council foundation, the American Quarter Horse foundation and the Equine Network foundation and strives to bring together a cross section of breeds, disciplines and causes where we believe our best chance at sustaining and growing the industry are if we are all passionate about being together as a unified presence to collaborate and plan for the future.

We are very excited to bring together our grant making partners in the industry for information and collaboration and our mission from this summit is to foster collaboration among funders to build alliances that will empower the equine community and the industry.

Okay folks, so the American Horse Council is just back fresh from our annual equine stakeholder meeting in Washington, D.C.

with the U.S.

department of Agriculture.

And a hot topic of the meeting was staffing and how potential staffing cuts coming from changes in administration might impact programs.

And it got us thinking, what are other federal programs that might be impacted by stopping cuts that support the horse industry?

So we're going to dig in a bit and go over some departments and agencies that work with the horse industry and how we might see reduced staffing affecting programs.

And Julie, let's start with the National Park System and the National Forestry Service, because you've mentioned previously, and we go over this a lot in the economic impact study about how recreation and trails use is a huge part of industry, like 30% of our industry.

So what impacts might all our trail riders feel out there?

Oh, so this is a complicated subject.

So we know just from the start that reductions in staff at the National Park Service or the National Forest Service or any of the trail riding venues that will have staffing cuts or funding cuts might result in people being unable to ride on those trails or those trails not being able to be maintained or not having the normal amenity services like people to greet them or people to clean the bathrooms or people to empty the trash, whatever that might looks like.

We know and have heard that USDA aphis, which is called the Animal and Plant Health inspection service, have 1,200 staff who have volunteered for the buyout.

But there are further staff reductions expected.

And so it's making us and others a little anxious.

And Emily, what do you think that means for horse health?

Yeah, so with the USDA APHIS staff reductions, you know, similar to the national parks and the forestry stuff, we're probably going to see some reduction in services.

And the key thing to know is that USDA aphis, it's one of the key offices that the American Horse Council interacts with.

Right.

And it supports imports and exports.

It supports herd health and disease outbreaks and disease monitoring, which is all really critical to making sure that our national herd that we call our 7 million horses in the country, are kept healthy and happy.

We've already heard of impacts at ports, so where horses come into the country and reductions in imports because of the lack of staffing to supervise and inspect horse shipments.

So if you're thinking of importing a horse, you might see impacts there.

And we've also seen staffing losses at the disease testing labs.

So if you're waiting on test results, those could take longer and reduced.

Veterinary medical officers.

So these are the vets that are hired by USDA to do things like inspect international horse shows.

So all of those competitions happening in Florida, those FEI competitions, might have some difficulty getting veterinarians to come inspect horses, but pretty much, you know, things are going to get messy in the world of horse health and movement if we lose too many people.

So, Emily, I was going to say the word that I would use instead of messy, because that implies.

It could be cleaned up.

What it means is there's going to be protected delays.

There's going to be an extended period to get these things to happen.

So just be aware, folks, plan ahead, that there's going to have to be a little bit of forethought, more than usual to do some of this.

So all our friends at usda, we hope, are able to stay on.

We're keeping our fingers crossed.

We've got some great partners over there, but we were in a meeting with them just earlier this week, and we know that they do a lot of work in a lot of different areas.

One includes assisting with wild horse and burro management, which further complicates things if there are staffing cuts in the Department of Interior.

So lots and lots of ways that our industry needs to be mindful of what the downstream implications might be.

Definitely.

So for all you out there, the Department of the Interior manages the wild horse herds on public land, so also known as the Bureau of Land Management lands.

And regardless of how you feel about herd roundups and managing mustangs on feedlots, you know, the fact is that no matter the method of management, their health is very important, as outbreaks in the wild horse herds could easily spread to domestic herds through both insects, you know, vector transmission, biting insects, and shared pasture lands.

So, you know, there's lots of areas with crossover between privately owned horses and wild horses that share grazing lands.

So, Emily, I'm just going to jump onto what you said because BLM monitors and observes wild horses both in feedlots and on the range for disease outbreaks.

And as you know, guys, we are very concerned right now about new World screwworm coming up from South America through Mexico into the US that's not a disease that our industry wants at all.

So we are very attuned to the fact that we really need USDA APHIS to facilitate disease testing with their veterinary medical officers.

So a reduction in staff at either the Department of Interior or the USDA APHIS could greatly impact the health of the horses that are on those border regions, if you will.

Not that they're the ones being coming across the border, but because they might be exposed or commingled with those horses.

So a loss at the Department of Interior could greatly impact fertility initiatives and other things that affect the wild.

The wild horse population that's out there.

Yeah, exactly.

So, I mean, I'm going to keep using the word messy.

Chaotic is another word that's been throwing around frustrating.

I, I think we've all had some very cathartic discussions back and forth, but we know we make this plea a lot.

But times are kind of especially important now that if there are topics like this you care about, we greatly encourage you to contact your representatives and let them know about the potential impacts these staffing cuts could have on the industry.

So feel free to reach out to us for more information@infoorscouncil.org and I'm just.

Going to close by saying please, please, please follow biosecurity measures.

You don't know when your horse is at a show or at an event or whatever, where the horse next to it has come from and what its vaccine or inoculation history is or anything about it.

So please, please be thoughtful and preventative in protecting your horse from what might be an inappropriate disease.

So just that.

That's my closing thought.

Emily, feel free to add.

Yes, yes.

As if if we're concerned about staffing cuts at USDA aphis, protecting your horse's health is even more critical.

So don't share nose rags, don't share water buckets.

You know, keep your horse to himself at horse shows and that'll be our best bet in working with keeping everybody safe and healthy, healthy for the show season.

Okay?

So thank you for joining us today.

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