Six years ago this week, on May 7, 2020, we released our first Teamcast on Residue. In that episode, Preston shared a conversation with Coleman Ruiz on the psychological and emotional substance left behind after choosing the hard path. The episode, and the paper that grew out of it, traveled further than we expected. Eight operators have since told us that paper is the reason they are still here.

In 2018, at a Wounded Warriors event in Alexandria, Tom Hardy introduced the idea of Residue to Preston. Preston then turned to FDNY Chief David Morkal, who pointed him toward Denis Leary. Denis's response became an essential part of MCTI's paper.

Six years later, this is the first time Preston and Denis have actually talked in person. They get into what method actors and mission critical operators share, the difference between trauma and burden, dark humor as survival, the Clark Kent–at-the-barbecue problem, and why music does the work that nothing else quite does, as evidenced by Denis singing in the car on the way to the recording. Denis's response to our Monday morning question is in there, too.

If this conversation is useful, the best way to support our work is to subscribe and leave a quick rating or review. It helps us reach the people who need to hear it most.

Hi everybody.

2

Welcome back to the team cast.

3

This is Dr.

4

Preston Cline, I'm joined today

by the legendary Denis Leary.

5

Denis, thanks very much for being with us.

6

Denis: You know, uh, Dr.

7

Cline, I don't know if you know

this or not, but I'm also a doctor.

8

Did you hear that?

9

Oh,

10

Preston: I did know

you're an honorary doctor.

11

Denis: Yeah, I know

12

Preston: I could.

13

Well, thank you, doctor.

14

Denis: I'm an honorary doctor at my

alma mater, Emerson College, which

15

I actually did all four years of,

and I loved college and you know,

16

it's a performing arts school.

17

I actually did very well in terms

of my grades, just because it was

18

all about acting and writing and,

but, um, I loved that school and

19

they made me an honorary doctor.

20

So I am a doctor of Arts and Letters.

21

Preston: Well, Dr.

22

Leary, thank you for joining us, sir.

23

Denis: You're welcome.

24

Dr.

25

Cline.

26

Preston: And I also understand

that you founded a club

27

there that's still going on.

28

Denis: Yeah, the comedy workshop, I

co-founded it with a number of people,

29

Jody Hafner,, Eddie Brill, Chris

Phillips, Adam Roth, um, Katie Bulger,

30

Dana Nathan, lauren Dombrowski, mario

Cantone, many of whom went on, you

31

know, mario's was on Sex in the City,

was probably his most famous role.

32

Yeah.

33

Lauren was one of the creators

of Mad TV on Fox, which was a

34

sketch show that ran forever.

35

It was a very talented group of people.

36

But yeah, it's the 50th anniversary

this year of that theater group.

37

Preston: It's amazing.

38

Well, good for you.

39

So folks, those of you who are

listening, you might be thinking,

40

since we normally have astronauts

and Navy SEALs and FBI agents on,

41

why do we have the actor Denis Leary?

42

Well, there's a couple of reasons.

43

One, Denis is also the founder

and head of the Leary Firefighter

44

Foundation, and that's how I met him.

45

And it has to do with the fact that,

46

due to a random sequence of events,

I found myself at a Wounded Warriors

47

event down in Alexandria, Virginia.

48

This particular event was for folks

who live on the secret side of the

49

house and when they get injured,

they're often isolated, 'cause they

50

can't talk about the injury, they

can't talk about anything else.

51

And so it just so happened

the actor Tom Hardy was there.

52

He supports veterans like Denis does.

53

And he was there to do a movie premiere

of Venom for them to raise some money.

54

It turns out that when he was

performing in Black Hawk Down,

55

which was his first movie, he had

a military advisor named RJ Casey.

56

And Tom Said to RJ, is there

anything I could be reading about?

57

And I was writing articles for the

Joint Special Operations Command.

58

RJ happened to have one

and handed it to Tom.

59

And that's how Tom came

to know my research.

60

So when we met the first time,

I had never met an actor before.

61

I thought I was just meeting a random guy

and he starts asking me these questions

62

about liminality and like doctoral level.

63

But he Was the one who said, why

didn't you talk about residue?

64

And that's when I first came up with

this understanding that a method actor

65

has to become, and Denis, I'm gonna be

asking you about this in a moment 'cause

66

I really don't understand it, but, but

they really have to embody the person that

67

they're playing in order to be authentic.

68

But that means that they have

to have genuine emotions and

69

experiences, good and bad.

70

And he was saying that that

residue, if you don't process

71

it, can be really harmful.

72

And I really stuck with me because I

have some residue from my past life.

73

And I reached out to some friends and

one of the people I reached out to

74

was Chief David Morkel of the FDNY.

75

And he's like, you should

really talk to Denis Leary.

76

And, um, we reached out to you and you

were kind enough to reply back with

77

some very deeply thoughtful ideas.

78

But what it did is it validated

really what Tom was saying and

79

allowed us to write the paper.

80

And since We wrote that article,

eight different operators have

81

approached us to tell us it was the

reason they didn't commit suicide

82

because we were the first people.

83

That's true.

84

I didn't That's true statement.

85

That's a true statement.

86

And it, because we were the first people

to say, this isn't a life sentence.

87

You're not broken, you're not a victim.

88

You chose the hard path.

89

You have to take responsibility for it.

90

You gotta do the work.

91

And here are some tools and techniques.

92

And Denis, it was partly due to you

that we wrote that article, so you

93

should take some of the credit for that.

94

We're keeping some people

alive because of that work.

95

Denis: Well, listen, I didn't know that.

96

That's interesting.

97

I think you or Dave told me the

story about Tom Hardy before, who

98

I've never met, but I do think he's

given some amazing performances.

99

Preston: Yeah.

100

Denis: He's a pretty good actor.

101

So, , that carries some weight.

102

You know what I mean?

103

Preston: Yeah.

104

Denis: I'm a fan of it.

105

He's given some really amazing, you

ever see Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy?

106

Preston: I have,

107

Denis: yeah.

108

I mean, listen, I'm not, I don't have

to blow smoke up Tom Hardy's ass.

109

'cause

110

Preston: Yeah.

111

Denis: He doesn't need it.

112

Preston: Right?

113

Denis: He's a well-respected

actor, but that cast.

114

Think about that cast.

115

You have guys from my age group,

Gary Oldman, right into, you

116

know, 10 years younger than that.

117

And the youngest, basically the new

guy in that cast, a cast of Oscar

118

winners and Oscar nominees and Right.

119

Preston: Yeah.

120

Denis: British movie stars,

uh, great method actors.

121

And then you have Tom Hardy,

who was the young guy.

122

His character was the young guy as well.

123

Preston: Yeah.

124

Denis: He has to come in in the

middle of that movie and compete.

125

And I remember watching that

movie 'cause it's a great movie.

126

And as a fellow actor, just

feeling like, oh my God, what a

127

challenge that must have been like.

128

Yeah.

129

So you have to play the guy, you

have to come in and Gary Oldman.

130

Preston: Yeah, that's right.

131

Denis: You know, Benedict

Cumber, I mean, come on.

132

Preston: Yeah.

133

Yeah.

134

Denis: And he not only held

his own, he was riveting.

135

Preston: Yeah.

136

Denis: Anyways, I think, in general my

profession as an actor, not as a comedian.

137

Yeah.

138

But as an actor.

139

There are too many people who study the

method or use the method and then, whether

140

they realize it or not, they, they go

on television, they get interviewed, and

141

they are very happy to let the reporters

and the audience know what a great

142

method actor they are and how hard it is

143

Preston: Yeah.

144

Denis: For them to get

rid of their characters.

145

And I don't necessarily,

I don't like that.

146

I think that's, that's a bizarre

badge of honor to be wearing in

147

public when you're doing press

for a movie or a television show.

148

and then it all becomes about

you and about your method.

149

Preston: Yeah.

150

Denis: I do use the method,

especially for, for heavy roles, Yeah.

151

Dramatic roles.

152

Um the greatest method actors of all

time, I'll just use one, robert De Niro,

153

who I have worked with as an actor and

as, as a producer and developing product.

154

He never gets in the other actors' ways.

155

Preston: Right.

156

Denis: He, the reason you know about

him putting on 60 pounds in Raging

157

Bull is because you saw it on screen,

he didn't go out and publicize

158

Preston: Yeah, yeah.

159

Denis: Still doesn't go

out and publicize it.

160

Yeah.

161

so I disagree with that.

162

Preston: Okay.

163

Denis: But I think what's important

to note in this context is that,

164

anybody can use whatever they

want, by the way, even when they're

165

work, we're all working together.

166

I don't care what you do.

167

Yeah.

168

Whatever you need to do,

get to the role, right.

169

Preston: Yeah.

170

Denis: But for me, I do need to touch

bases of grief and whatever it might

171

be, rage, anger, in my own personal

life in order to, to play the character.

172

Right?

173

That's just what, how I was trained.

174

So comedically, it's the same

thing in a funny way, but

175

it's much more lighthearted.

176

Okay?

177

Because comedically, I still

need to be the character and

178

I need to process the comedy

179

Preston: Yeah.

180

Denis: To make sure it's working.

181

But I still might access my rage.

182

I still might access, tears or whatever,

but in a slightly different way.

183

but the heavy days, like when

I was doing Rescue Me, that

184

was very close to my heart.

185

Not just because of my cousin who

died in the line of duty, who was a

186

firefighter, but other firefighters I

knew, who had died in the line of duty on

187

9/ 11, but also other firefighters that

were the technical advisors on the set

188

Preston: Yeah.

189

Denis: Who had lived through 9/11 and

survived and had survivor's guilt.

190

Preston: Yeah.

191

Denis: Which is what my character had.

192

So you have to be really careful.

193

You want to use it and on a

set, a film set or a TV set,

194

it's a 10 or a 12 hour day.

195

Preston: Yeah.

196

Denis: So you might do one piece of

the scene, the heavy scene at nine

197

o'clock in the morning, and then another

at four o'clock in the afternoon.

198

So you have to keep it bubbling.

199

Preston: Yeah.

200

Denis: And you wanna retain the

residue for that 24 hours, right?

201

Preston: Yep.

202

Denis: Or if it's three days in a row.

203

So it's a very hard thing.

204

You have to learn how to

go home and get rid of it.

205

And that's much easier for us

to do as actors than it is to

206

do, I think, for soldiers or for

firefighters or for, first responders.

207

You know, that's why there's so

much dark humor in those jobs

208

because they have to laugh at it.

209

Preston: Yeah.

210

Denis: Back at the base

or at the firehouse

211

I don't know how it is for other people.

212

Grief sits so close below

the surface anyways.

213

Yeah.

214

Especially the older you get, the more

grief you've been through, you know,

215

it's, you just scratch the surface

and it's just, people don't understand

216

that unless they've been through it.

217

Like,

218

Preston: yeah, that's right.

219

Denis: Losing somebody's young or

losing somebody in a very tragic,

220

circumstance or line of duty, death.

221

You know, you don't ever

really get over that.

222

Preston: So i'm One of those

people that thinks that we

223

use the word trauma too much.

224

I think there are hard days,

but not all of it's trauma.

225

Some of it is just unprocessed, and

we're too quick to diagnose and to

226

label it, it, just give it a minute.

227

And one Of the things I recently

learned, I didn't know how, I didn't

228

know this, but the word grief itself,

what it actually translates to is burden.

229

And that's actually a really helpful

thing, like a framing to think about

230

that because that, that invokes choice.

231

You've received a burden.

232

Now you have to decide what

you're gonna do with that burden.

233

And so for an actor, and I'm gonna say

back to you, uh, what I heard you saying

234

is you're gonna have to pick that up and

put that down and pick that up, put that

235

down multiple times in a day or a week.

236

Yeah.

237

And so, and you have to do it without it

destroying you or wearing you just thin.

238

You still have to be present

and honor that and honor those

239

firefighters that are watching you.

240

Denis: Yeah, it's hard.

241

I'll give you an example.

242

years ago I did a movie called Monument

Ave, which was a Irish crime movie.

243

Really, really well done little film.

244

Set in Boston in this neighborhood

that I used to live in.

245

Uh, and it was myself, Billy

Crudup, Famke Janssen, Martin Sheen.

246

It was a great cast.

247

And, there Was some comedy in it,

but it was a heavy, heavy drama.

248

Anyways, there's a scene at the end

where I have to deal with the death

249

of my cousin who was also a gangster

250

Preston: Yeah.

251

Denis: Who was killed by our boss.

252

And at this point when I made this

movie, I was, geez, I must have been 40.

253

And, my Father died very young and

very suddenly, when I was like 25.

254

In order to do the scene, um, I

decided to use this song, which

255

long story short, the weekend that

my father died, he died in Ireland.

256

So we had to bring the body back here.

257

And when we were going to the airport,

the song, Back on the Chain Gang by

258

the pretenders was playing on the

radio a lot and it had that great

259

line, "I found a picture of you".

260

Well, in the course of the week of

doing the funeral and everything, we

261

did go through with my mom some boxes

of pictures and that's, that's why that

262

song stuck with me because, you know,

I saw a picture of you in a, in the

263

song, it brings back all these memories

and that happened to me with my mother.

264

Yeah.

265

So I used it as for this one scene in

the movie, which took a whole night to

266

shoot and it really worked well for me.

267

I just went outside and listened

to the song and it immediately got

268

me to where the place I had to be.

269

Now I, I love that song, but I, I

cannot hear that song without going

270

right back to my dad being dead.

271

Preston: Yeah.

272

Denis: Picking the body up at

Logan Airport and that moment of

273

looking in the box with my mother

and my son is about to get married.

274

Preston: Yeah.

275

Denis: He said he chose the song that

he wants him and his mother to dance to.

276

Um for the mother son dance

is Back on the Chain Gang And

277

I didn't wanna say anything.

278

And after A couple of weeks, he was like,

why are you so hesitant about that song?

279

I said, I should just tell you.

280

So I told him, I said,

don't change the song.

281

It's just, that's what

that song means to me.

282

You can't get around it.

283

It's still in there.

284

I'm glad you said that thing about trauma,

because I don't see it as a burden.

285

I know it is a burden.

286

I know it's sometimes it

sneaks up on us, right?

287

Preston: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

288

Denis: Right.

289

And it, and it scares the fuck out.

290

So we go, ah, fuck.

291

Yeah.

292

I didn't know that was

gonna remind me of that.

293

Preston: Yep.

294

Denis: Right.

295

But, um, the other side of it is

that, I know the emotions are in

296

there and I treasure them because it

doesn't just remind me of them dying.

297

It reminds That's right.

298

Me of them.

299

And how great it was to have

those people in your life.

300

Preston: A hundred percent.

301

And that's part of residue, right?

302

It's the good and the bad.

303

You have to own the whole thing.

304

You don't,

305

Denis: yeah.

306

Preston: It's not just

the stuff that hurts you.

307

And what's lovely about that story

you just told, and what I'm actually

308

really excited about for you is that

you now get a new view of that song

309

because it's gonna be part of something

that's truly beautiful in your family.

310

Yeah.

311

And so you, you get to see almost

like, you know, I have this, this, this

312

thing is a tangent, but you'll get it.

313

You know, Edith Poff.

314

Edith Poff in World War II sings this

beautiful music, but as her music

315

has gone through the generations,

different people have interpreted it.

316

Yeah.

317

It's still beautiful music.

318

But each generation they

take it onto their own.

319

They weren't fighting the Germans

and the occupied France, but the

320

music is what lives through it.

321

And that is a sort of a miraculous thing.

322

Denis: I'll give you

another example, right.

323

It's just, again, it's very individual.

324

Preston: Sure.

325

Denis: When my cousin Jerry Lucey died in

the Worcester Cold Storage Warehouse Fire.

326

Now, it was before 9/11, you know?

327

Preston: Yeah.

328

Denis: Um,

329

Preston: just before.

330

Denis: Yeah.

331

Just before.

332

And so in some ways it was a microscopic

version of 9/11 without us realizing,

333

because the, it was a large warehouse

building downtown, and it collapsed.

334

And so it took two weeks

to dig through the rubble.

335

And firefighters came from all

over the country and the world

336

to help dig it, you know, through

the rubble to find the bodies.

337

Anyways, Jerry was one of the

last bodies they found so, you

338

know, we were all down there.

339

His wife and, my older brother who was

very close with Jerry, his sister, all

340

the different family members, we all kind

of knew each other 'cause we all went

341

to school together in that neighborhood.

342

We all grew up there.

343

Yes.

344

So, you know, like 35 guys I

knew were firefighters in the

345

Worcester Fire department.

346

Anyways, the point being there were just,

there was bricks and rubble everywhere.

347

One of my cousins from Ireland had

come over to, to wait for the bodies

348

to be found and for the funerals.

349

And when it was all said and done,

there was a big memorial service for

350

all six guys and then individual masses.

351

so it was a process.

352

And then at the end they did

this sort of blessing of the

353

site, like when it was all over.

354

And my cousin Timo, he was now gonna

leave there and, and go to Logan

355

Airport and fly back to Ireland.

356

And he reached out and grabbed this

brick and I was like, what are you doing?

357

And he is like, I'm

taking this as a memory.

358

I was like, it was so weird because to

me, like the last fucking thing I wanted

359

Preston: Yeah.

360

Denis: Anything to do with that building.

361

Preston: Yeah.

362

Denis: But for him,

363

Preston: especially going far away,

364

Denis: he kept it.

365

Preston: Yeah.

366

Denis: Yeah.

367

And he still has it.

368

Yeah.

369

So, it's literally a touchstone for him.

370

Preston: Yeah.

371

Denis: So I, I look at

it, I go, you know what?

372

That's like, that's like,

um, you know, I have shirts.

373

Preston: Yeah.

374

Denis: I have W6 shirts,

I have 9/11 shirts.

375

I have challenge coins.

376

It's, they're different

touchstones for different

377

Preston: That's right.

378

They remind you of the good and the bad.

379

Denis: Yes,

380

Preston: exactly.

381

You shouldn't.

382

People often, I think that some

people make mistakes when they leave

383

their field, their chosen field.

384

They're like, I'm just gonna go to

Montana and put it all behind me.

385

And I was like, but you're

giving up the good with the bad.

386

Like there's so much good in what you did.

387

There's so much good in the

relationships that you had.

388

I know you're burnt out on

people and burnt out in the

389

world, but like, don't hide.

390

Isolation's not good for you.

391

You, you gotta stay in the game.

392

Denis: No, I totally, I agree with you

on that and literally on all fronts

393

because it will, you're not escaping it.

394

No, that's the thing.

395

You can't.

396

So, you know, they talk about that

thing of generational trauma now.

397

Preston: Yeah.

398

Denis: Which I agree, is probably true.

399

Uh, but yeah, you're not, you're, you're

burying it, which is just a bad thing.

400

Preston: Yeah.

401

Denis: You think you're going to

Montana and it's not gonna, you're

402

not gonna, uh, think about it

and you're gonna get rid of it.

403

You're, it's, it's, it's

inside, it's in your cells.

404

Preston: Yeah.

405

When I, when I first started working

406

so all the chiefs were 9/11 chiefs.

407

We would be there for some of their

big training events where they bring

408

in a lot of guys for different things.

409

Right?

410

And so they'd be at the Rock

and be doing this training.

411

And I'm just there as a research and

observer, but I know the guys, I've

412

known 'em for a little while 'cause

there's been a lot of time with 'em.

413

Well, a lot of people don't know if you've

never been in fire, is that if you're

414

wearing an air tank and you're rigged up

to go into a building, if you don't move,

415

if you don't move, an alarm will go off.

416

And what people don't understand

is that after the towers fell,

417

there were a lot of alarms going

off because people weren't moving.

418

Denis: Yeah.

419

Preston: So I'm telling you this story

420

All these old guys are

training these young guys.

421

And at the end of the program, at

the end of the event, at the end

422

of the simulation, they're calling

people in and uh, they're calling

423

on the radio just a roll call.

424

And there was this one intern that they

had sent off, but he wasn't checking in.

425

And at the same time that sound

was going, beep, beep, beep.

426

And you watch the old guys

absolutely just lose their minds.

427

Like it went from being a training

thing to people were physically

428

moving people like, where's that kid?

429

Get him in front of me now.

430

And they jacked that kid up.

431

And it wasn't so much just

because of training, but you

432

could just see it in their faces.

433

You could see on their bodies.

434

Like, you can't do that.

435

You can't have a radio silence.

436

We're doing roll call.

437

We lived through the silence of it.

438

We lived through like engine so and

so, silence engine, so and so silence.

439

And all we heard was these beeps

and like, you can't do that.

440

And I was like, emotionally at the time.

441

I needed the minute.

442

'cause I realized looking at it, I'm.

443

That's a lot.

444

That's a lot to ask people to do.

445

Denis: Yeah.

446

That day uh,

447

the first time you saw footage on the day.

448

Preston: Yeah.

449

Denis: Later that day, in the evening when

you saw the news and you saw the footage

450

that was shot down there, it was just,

it's just alarms going off everywhere.

451

Preston: Yeah.

452

Just brutal.

453

Denis: Yeah.

454

Just brutal.

455

You reminded me of something though

when I was talking about that the

456

other blessing as an actor, because

some of my friends, one in particular

457

who passed on from 9/11 Cancer, he

was great firefighter and the end of

458

his career, he was working as a drill

instructor down at, at the Rock Yeah.

459

The Training Academy.

460

Preston: Yeah.

461

Yeah.

462

Denis: FDNY Training Academy

and imparting his knowledge.

463

He felt like it was a great

way to access his feelings.

464

In a good way, in a constructive

way to say, you, this is why.

465

Listen to me.

466

This is what you gotta

do in this circumstance.

467

Um, so that he felt like

that was a good thing.

468

And that's why as an actor, it's such

a great gift to actually be able to

469

access your feelings and use them for

something because it's sort of cleaning

470

out your system a little bit, for

rage or whatever emotion it might be.

471

Preston: I've never thought about this

before, but I know for example, you

472

starting the, the Leary Firefighting

Foundation is actually an act of service.

473

It's an act of service for your cousin and

for your best friend and for firefighters.

474

Do you ever see, I've never asked

anybody this, but is acting in a

475

way a, a thing of service, like,

of accessing those emotions?

476

Is that in service to something

not just your own sort of purging,

477

but is in service to the audience?

478

Or is it really just

about like, creativity?

479

Denis: You know, you're storytellers.

480

Right?

481

Preston: Right.

482

Denis: So when we did Rescue Me, our

desire was to tell the story that we

483

knew from this particular firehouse

where I had a bunch of friends.

484

Where our tech advisor worked at the time.

485

We wanted to tell their stories

because that, it was a riveting story.

486

It was funny, it was touching,

it was upsetting, it was dark.

487

They were great fucking firefighters.

488

They were in a busy fire.

489

We just wanted to, you just wanted

to tell that story for whatever

490

it was, five or six or seven years

we were servicing their story.

491

And the audience 'cause you want

the audience to go, hopefully we

492

achieved it, this is what it's

really like to be in a firehouse.

493

Preston: Yeah.

494

Denis: Right.

495

Um, and that was the, it was

the joy and the challenge.

496

Preston: Yeah.

497

Denis: So we wanted to make, we literally

knew from the moment that we started,

498

we wanna make you cry one minute and

the next second you're dying laughing.

499

And the next second

you're scared shitless.

500

Preston: Yeah.

501

Denis: Because that's what it's like

to be a firefighter in the Yeah.

502

It always felt good.

503

, It's so interesting, man.

504

It was like so emotional and so

funny and we were working with

505

the firefighters every day.

506

Yeah.

507

It was, it was great.

508

, Guys were on shifts and they'd come

right from their shifts and they tell

509

us a story like, funny or dramatic.

510

Like, this is what happened

last night at my, and we would

511

go, we're using that next week.

512

Yeah.

513

We're gonna write that into.,

514

So, yeah, like I said your job is to

entertain the audience, but if it's based

515

on a true story or the writer's story

Director's story, you want to tell it.

516

And if it's based on a real person,

'cause I've done that as well.

517

That's, that's an even bigger challenge.

518

Preston: One of the things you said

earlier, and you know, in spending time

519

with the British SAS and the FBI and

NASA and firefighters and docs, they all

520

have one thing in common, which is if

you're living at the edge of things where

521

you gotta experience the best of things

and the worst of things, every single

522

one of 'em is looking for the laugh.

523

Every one of 'em.

524

Denis: Yes,

525

Preston: they are.

526

It's constantly, five minutes in the

banter begins and it's immediate and

527

it's just that it's an onslaught.

528

And the FDNY more often than

not, I'm laughing hysterically.

529

Even the guys that

don't like me are funny.

530

Like they're funny about the whole thing.

531

It's just this constant pursuit.

532

Yes.

533

I'm getting the people

around you to laugh.

534

Denis: Yeah, yeah.

535

Preston: It's like endless.

536

It's relentless.

537

Denis: It's crazy.

538

It really is.

539

We did it a few, quite a few times

on Rescue Me, 'cause it was based

540

on our experience as writers,

myself and Peter Tolan, seeing

541

it or if the guy's telling us.

542

I mean, there's a couple of scenes

in Rescue Me where we leave the

543

firehouse, we get on the truck.

544

An argument starts in the firehouse,

it continues in the truck.

545

They drive a couple of blocks.

546

They get out, they're still arguing.

547

They go into the fire and

they're, they're arguing.

548

They put out the fire, rescue,

whatever, and they come out and they're

549

still, that's based on these guys.

550

Like, they're so, uh,

551

Preston: it's true.

552

Denis: It's so amazing.

553

Yeah.

554

And also the job that they're

doing is just complete insanity.

555

Like, literally, like the thing

is just blowing, you know?

556

Yeah.

557

Like the entire building.

558

It's just blowing.

559

And they're, they're arguing

about some stupid thing on their

560

way in and pulling people out.

561

Yeah.

562

And then when they get done

with the people, everybody's

563

safe and the fire's out.

564

They're still arguing about it.

565

Preston: Oh, yeah.

566

I love.

567

Denis: I love it.

568

Preston: I was working at the Rock one

day, and whenever I'm down there, I'm down

569

there to look at the instructor cadre.

570

So sometimes we're recommending

changes and they hate that.

571

They hate me messing.

572

They're like, you're not a firefighter.

573

Stop doing that.

574

Anyway, so they're mad at me.

575

So, but we all go out to the pub,

of course, and we're out the pub and

576

it's my turn to get the shout right.

577

Get up and get around for everybody.

578

So I'm up at the bar and there's

this one drunk New Yorker, whatever.

579

Right?

580

I'm not, I'm not a small person.

581

So he is talking smack to me or

whatever, and I'm talking smack and

582

he's starting to get loud, whatever.

583

I don't really care.

584

All of a sudden I feel a bump

at my back and I turn around

585

thinking there's something else.

586

And it's all those firefighters

that don't like me, and they're

587

all like, is there a problem?

588

And I was like, you don't even like me.

589

They're like, not the point.

590

You're with us.

591

Denis: Yeah.

592

Yeah.

593

Preston: And it's just like,

that sums up so much about them.

594

Denis: It's so funny, man.

595

It really is.

596

Like you, I've had the experience of

dealing with New York City detectives.

597

Preston: Yes.

598

Denis: Um, uh, 'cause I, you know,

I played a couple of different

599

detectives and, and spent a night or

a day or a few nights and days with.

600

Preston: Yeah,

601

Denis: they do it.

602

We did, a TV show called The Job, Peter

Tolin and I, the guy who did rescue me.

603

And one of the stories we told is true.

604

The guy who was my tech advisor, on Thomas

Crown Affair, I had two tech advisors

605

and they were both homicide detectives.

606

This one guy told me his story.

607

He goes, yeah.

608

He goes, I remember this one time, we

went into this building, because we got

609

a call that this guy murdered his wife.

610

As we arrived, the guys that were

already there were saying like,

611

listen, there's, he's a golfer.

612

She looks like somebody

hit her with a golf club.

613

The guy's in the apartment.

614

And so He goes in and he

goes, I'm with my partner.

615

And you know, we walk in and sure enough

he goes, it's not that we're Colombo,

616

it's just we know what we're doing.

617

Yeah.

618

He goes within like five seconds.

619

We can tell by his demeanor he did it.

620

We don't know if he did

it with the golf club.

621

He probably, but he did it.

622

It's just we're so experienced, right?

623

Preston: Yeah.

624

Denis: So now we're just, we're gonna

spend a while here in the apartment.

625

There's pictures still being

taken and everything else.

626

So I tell my partner, I said, you

look around, let me talk to him.

627

So I talk to him, he goes, I

talked to him for like 10 minutes.

628

My partner disappears

and it's a big apartment.

629

He comes back and I, and now

somebody else is talking to the, to

630

the suspect and he goes, anything.

631

And his partner goes, this

is a really nice apartment.

632

And he goes, yeah so?

633

He goes, well, I need an apartment.

634

And he goes, he goes, what do you, he

goes, well, he's going off to jail.

635

He goes, walk around with me, take a look.

636

Preston: Yeah, the

fixture's in the bathroom.

637

Denis: He, he's walking around, he's

going, this is a pretty nice apartment.

638

So, so we put it into the tv.

639

So he goes, listen, that's just

like, you know, we have our suspect.

640

We know we're gonna nail him.

641

Like he took a walk around

and, he saw the body.

642

They're still photographing it.

643

He's looking at, he's looking at

the evidence and stuff, but he

644

is also going like, this fucking

place is gonna be available.

645

Preston: Yeah.

646

That's the stuff.

647

Denis: I mean, you just, and by

the way, like he's, he's not wrong.

648

Right.

649

It's somebody's gotta get the apartment.

650

It might as well him.

651

Preston: Yeah, exactly.

652

Denis: Oh my God,

653

Preston: One of the questions that

I wanted to ask you, 'cause we talk

654

about the routine world, the everyday

world, and the critical world, the

655

world that firefighters and cops

and surgeons operate in right?

656

It's A different world

with different rules.

657

Time moves differently,

space moves differently.

658

And there's this famous quote in

the, in the movie Kill Bill, right?

659

Where he talks about the fact that

Superman, the comic book hero or

660

whatever, he's the only guy that

is pretending to be Clark Kent.

661

He's not pretending to be Superman.

662

He actually is Superman.

663

He's pretending to be Clark

Kent because he's an alien.

664

Yeah.

665

And, and I often will think about the

guys I work with who are trying to like,

666

hang out at the cocktail party or the

barbecue in the back, or at the PTA and

667

they're just trying to be Clark Kent.

668

They're not actually that normal human.

669

They're just trying to be like,

all right, I gotta play this role.

670

And, and often when they're done with

their career or they're done with a

671

shift, they come back to their spouse,

they come back to their family and like.

672

Okay, well you've had your excitement.

673

Now it's time to be normal again.

674

But they were never normal to begin with.

675

That's why they went and did the

676

Denis: job.

677

Yeah.

678

I mean, that's very true, right?

679

Most of the firefighters I know, they

don't want to hear that but they'll

680

talk about other guys that they worked

with that way they'll say like, oh

681

my God, you know, he's a lunatic.

682

Or they'll introduce him to you.

683

This, this guy's a total maniac.

684

Preston: Yeah.

685

Denis: He did this job and

this job and then, but they

686

don't see themselves that way.

687

Preston: Yeah.

688

Denis: So, it's gotta be hard.

689

One of the guys that worked on Rescue

Me is a great firefighter and, you

690

know, survived 9/11 and everything else.

691

His name is Terry Quinn and

he became an amazing painter.

692

He started taking a painting class.

693

I think it was a way for him

to empty his head, you know?

694

He had feel for it and he started doing

it before, long before he retired.

695

He didn't have a lot of time to do it.

696

Preston: Yeah.

697

Denis: But man, he just turned to

an brilliant, brilliant painter.

698

And I think it was really a way

for him to creatively use his

699

brain and get away from all of it.

700

But he did a couple amazing , paintings

of firefighters as well, that was an

701

interesting thing to me to watch him.

702

Preston: Yeah.

703

We often talk about

the third thing, right?

704

And what we say is that if you only

got work and family, if you lose

705

one, you're likely to lose the other.

706

So you need a third thing.

707

And when I first met you, you talked

a lot about hockey being a really

708

important part, or sports being a

really important part to process

709

your emotions, your experience,

your physicality and all that stuff.

710

Does that remain an important, I mean,

you just got back from playing tennis, so

711

Denis: Yeah.

712

I Still play, I'm still skating

and I play street ball hockey, what

713

they call it, street hockey as well.

714

So Sunday mornings I play both.

715

I play, street hockey first and then I

eat something, and then I play ice hockey.

716

I never played basketball growing up.

717

'cause I was always playing hockey.

718

But it's like basketball.

719

Tennis has the same thing.

720

Boxing has it, but I was

never any good at that.

721

You cannot do anything except

exist in the moment for the full

722

game, 'cause you'll get killed.

723

Preston: Yeah.

724

Denis: So you have to be fully

engaged and improvisational

725

and aware of your surroundings.

726

And so it's a complete rest, any tension

or grief or worry, whatever it is,

727

doesn't exist for those two hours or

whatever, however long it is because you

728

have to be focused on what's going on.

729

I still think that's so important.

730

Preston: A hundred percent.

731

And then here's these

transitions we talk about, right?

732

So you're Dr.

733

Denis Leary, obviously you're also

the actor Denis Leary, and then

734

you're just Denis Leary, right?

735

You're just, you're the guy

your friends and family knows.

736

Denis: Yeah.

737

Preston: As you've become more famous

or you've done more things and you

738

become more noticed, is there a

cleaner divide between those things?

739

Do you have to put on different

masks or is it just you?

740

Denis: No, I mean, I guess, I'm

at that point in, in my life and

741

my career, where I've been around.

742

It is funny because I

have bunch of friends.

743

We've all been famous for almost the

same amount of time, about 35 years now.

744

We've been so famous for so long that

some of the executives that are running

745

some of these streaming companies.

746

I knew them when they were, you know, when

they first came in as assistants or, yeah.

747

Working in the mail room or whatever.

748

But the other thing is I've been

doing it so long that I, I love

749

it more than ever and the game has

altered a little bit because of the

750

streaming world or whatever, but,

um, you still have to do the same

751

things, which is go out and publicize.

752

Preston: Yeah.

753

Denis: So I'm Still a comedian.

754

I still do two concerts a year.

755

One for the Cam Neely Foundation up at

Boston Garden, and one for the Michael J.

756

Fox Parkinson's Foundation in New York.

757

so I'm doing standup

at least twice a year.

758

Okay.

759

, I'm also as a comedian going on talk

shows and podcasts to publicize all my

760

different projects and like one year,

last year or the year before we shot the

761

stuff, but it all came out last year.

762

I did a limited series drama with

Ray Romano, who's an old friend

763

of mine who I did ice Age with.

764

Yeah.

765

But we've known each other since

before we were famous as comedians.

766

then I did a, a Christmas

comedy with Michelle Pfeiffer,

767

who I'd never worked with.

768

I knew her husband 'cause

we played hockey together.

769

So that was crazy.

770

And then right after that I

did a comedy that my company

771

developed that we shot in Ireland.

772

So I literally did every except for

a musical, like, I did everything

773

in the course of one year, so, so

774

Preston: it's a musical next.

775

Denis: I'd love to do a musical,

but I just don't have the commitment

776

for the six months on Broadway.

777

Yeah.

778

I was just talking about this with

somebody because we were talking

779

about doing a play and uh, I was

like, I never have the window.

780

'cause you need to give

at least four months.

781

Preston: Yeah.

782

And I should have looked this up,

but, um, do you live near your family?

783

Are you living

784

Denis: alone?

785

Yes.

786

My kids, both my kids

are here in New York.

787

They live in Brooklyn.

788

Preston: Nice.

789

Denis: My daughter's a writer.

790

My son is a producer.

791

He actually runs one of

my production companies.

792

Nice.

793

I actually worked with him on the,

uh, show that we shot in Ireland.

794

That was something he developed.

795

So my son was my boss, um, on that.

796

How

797

Preston: was that?

798

Denis: That was, it was great.

799

It was really great.

800

You know, it was really interesting

'cause he would just come in and

801

go, you know, we'd do a take,

he'd come in with a director and

802

he'd go, that was great, Denis.

803

That sucked.

804

Um, hey, let's do this.

805

Or he'd come in and he'd go,

Hey Denis, that was great.

806

Hey, uh, so, um, it's really interesting.

807

I have a bunch of friends who are

doing that now 'cause our kids are

808

turning into directors and writers.

809

Preston: Yeah.

810

Denis: Um, so it's interesting 'cause.

811

You know, I always had used to

joke about like, eventually we're

812

gonna ask our kids for jobs.

813

Preston: Yeah.

814

Denis: You know,

815

Preston: so let's talk about

just storytelling for a second.

816

We brought it up before.

817

So for a long time at MCTI, we

had a professional storyteller.

818

We had a chief storyteller

on staff named Clare Murphy.

819

Now in Ireland.

820

She's now doing great things on stage.

821

And the reason we did that was because,

it's much like being an athlete that

822

you suddenly transition to be a coach.

823

So a lot of times we have operators

that suddenly have to become instructor

824

cadre and it's two different skill

sets, um, that you have to do.

825

But storytelling is one of those

things, people remember stories

826

more than they remember data.

827

So it's much more accessible.

828

Yeah.

829

And, it's A natural skill

set they already have.

830

But I also believe, storytelling is

a way to process, as you're building

831

the story and thinking about the

story, it's a way to make meaning

832

of really complicated things.

833

Yes.

834

In your own head, before you

explain it to anyone else.

835

Is that, is that a fair, version,

of what you think about it?

836

Denis: Yeah, I, I do think that's true.

837

Uh, I think the reason that we tell

stories, especially because, I come

838

from, I'm a hundred percent Irish.

839

My parents are both from

the same village in Ireland.

840

When I was growing up, my dad was an

amazing storyteller,, all my aunts,

841

my mother, everybody was funny.

842

All the women in, in America that had

come over, they were all really funny

843

and they were all great storytellers.

844

So after a wedding or after a wake,

or a funeral, whatever, you'd go

845

back to somebody's house, usually

our apartment or our house, and you'd

846

end up great songs would be song,

but great stories would be told Yeah.

847

About the person who passed away.

848

And that i's probably, I picked

up some of it from my parents.

849

I mean, listen, we were

talking about grief.

850

One of the great things about Rescue

Me was we were trying to process grief

851

of survivor's guilt on a massive scale.

852

Right.

853

But we also had to make you laugh

because that's what they did.

854

Preston: Yeah.

855

Denis: There's a New project that I'm

working on right now, I don't know

856

if we'll end up bringing it to screen

or not, but, I'm writing it with a

857

friend of mine and it's about grief.

858

And it's about mortality,

but it's fucking funny.

859

It's balls out.

860

I mean, it's touching obviously,

but it is, we meant balls out funny.

861

Yeah.

862

Like, we wanna deal with grief

in a balls out funny way.

863

And my writing partner is an ex soldier.

864

So, um, we're both coming at it with

a lot of people in our lives, having

865

died very young for various reasons.

866

Sure.

867

And we were both like, let's

write something it's gonna

868

make you feel obviously.

869

But while it's making you feel

it's gonna make you die laughing.

870

Yeah.

871

About mortality and about grief.

872

Um, because it, it is, I, I keep

going back to what you said,

873

which is trying to escape it.

874

There's no escaping it.

875

Preston: No.

876

Denis: I mean, I find, I don't know

how anybody else, I, I know a lot

877

of older people do this, you know,

my mother died last year at age 98.

878

Um,

879

Preston: good run.

880

Denis: She lived, she

lived an amazing life.

881

Yeah.

882

And she, she still was

living an amazing life.

883

Yeah, she was, she was really only sick up

in the last year of her life, basically.

884

She, she started to fade a little

bit, but she was still there.

885

Preston: Yeah.

886

Denis: She was still sarcastic.

887

The last time I talked to her, she was

still making, I was, I was on FaceTime

888

like a couple days before she died.

889

She was making fun of my hair.

890

'cause I had had a hat on and I,

she didn't want me to have a hat

891

on while I was talking to her.

892

So I took my hat off and she's

like, oh my God, put the hat back.

893

You know, like, so, but that

woman lived an amazing life.

894

Preston: Yeah.

895

Denis: With so much grief.

896

And, but she was, she

wasn't about the grief.

897

Preston: Yeah.

898

Denis: She lived with it.

899

She, she celebrated it on the

days that it was required,

900

but she had great grandchild.

901

All she was about the kids.

902

Where are the kids to, where's

the baby, the new baby.

903

We're all gonna go.

904

So I think the older that we

get, we realize that, and you're

905

not, you're not afraid of death.

906

I'm not afraid of death.

907

All of my, all of my favorite

people that have gone.

908

Preston: Yeah.

909

Denis: You know, if, if

there's an afterlife, great.

910

I'll get that to hang out with those guys

911

Preston: again.

912

Yeah.

913

Denis: But you also realize like, it's

just, like you said, it's a part of you.

914

, When I think of my cousin

Jerry, , his son, who looks just

915

like him, is a firefighter in the

Worcester Fire Department now.

916

And his kids, they all

look like my cousin Jerry.

917

Their dad is a double of his dad.

918

So it's each time he has a new

baby, we're like, oh my God,

919

look at the head of hair on it.

920

So we're reminded and he's a great

firefighter, just like his dad was.

921

So it's like, what a great thing.

922

Preston: Yeah.

923

Denis: You know,

924

Preston: so what's important, and

I want people listening to think

925

about this, is when we say you can't

escape it, we're not saying that's

926

a life sentence of pain at all.

927

It's still a choice.

928

It's still the fuel

that makes life richer.

929

Because with that sorrow or with that

loss is also, to your point, my friends

930

that I've lost, I also remember the times

they made me laugh until I was crying

931

over the stupidest, most irreverent, most

inappropriate times to be making those

932

jokes, which made them even funnier.

933

'cause people were telling us to shut

up and I, and I wouldn't trade that

934

even for the pain of losing them.

935

I wouldn't trade.

936

No.

937

That laughter,

938

Denis: not at all.

939

Not at all.

940

It's so funny 'cause for me.

941

Like when my dad, my dad, dropped dead in

Ireland, but I went to, I went to Logan

942

Airport with my girlfriend, who's my wife.

943

Preston: Yeah.

944

Denis: Because we lived

pretty close to Logan Airport.

945

So the, on a whim that night, 'cause it

was a summer night, we just went to the

946

airport to meet them, to, to see him off.

947

And he was so fucking

funny, man, at the airport.

948

Um, so last time I saw him, he was making,

he had made us laugh and he was laughing.

949

My cousin Jerry, last time I saw him

was a couple weeks before he died, I was

950

doing a charity concert up in Boston.

951

He came to us and we were

just laughing our balls off.

952

Yeah.

953

Me, him, and my, my older brother.

954

that's, that stuff is, that's residue.

955

Preston: Yeah, that's right.

956

Denis: You know, my mother.

957

When I think of my mom, I

have so many memories of her

958

'cause she was a great person.

959

Fucking inspiring.

960

But like, I'm still thinking

of that last phone call.

961

Like she just was fucking shitting on me.

962

Preston: Yeah.

963

Denis: And making me laugh because

she's, she was just making fun

964

of my hair and whatever else.

965

You know, we're all gonna lose people.

966

And it is hard when it sneaks

up on you and it does overcome

967

you and makes you cry.

968

Of course.

969

Preston: Of course.

970

Right.

971

Denis: I understand it and it's upsetting,

but you know what, there's no stopping it.

972

Preston: Yeah.

973

Denis: I actually, selfishly

as an actor, go, fuck man.

974

I hope it's gonna be there the

next time I wanna access it.

975

Preston: Yeah.

976

Denis: Because you're always worried

that you're not gonna get it, you

977

know, it's not gonna be there.

978

Um,

979

Preston: some of my audiences heard me

say this before, but one of the moments,

980

you know, that define you as a researcher

for me or as a academic or as a person,

981

I had a meeting trying to understand

if I was gonna study these teams.

982

And this is back in 2007.

983

And I happened to be sitting in

between a guy named Chris Warner,

984

who's a famous mountaineer.

985

He summited all the big summits

and next to me on the other side

986

was a guy named Vikram Bakar.

987

Vikram Bakar was a pediatric surgeon.

988

And so I was talking to Chris and

I said, Hey Chris, how did you know

989

when you went from being an amateur

mountaineer to a professional mountaineer?

990

It's not like there's degree or anything.

991

You, it just one day you are.

992

And he was like, oh, I can tell

you the exact moment he says.

993

When I'm an amateur mountaineer,

mountaineering is painful.

994

It is a physically painful thing.

995

Yeah.

996

And he says, what I used to do

is take all that pain and I would

997

compartmentalize and shove it down.

998

But when I would take a break,

it would all come screaming back.

999

And then one day I was like, no, no, no.

00:37:38,421 --> 00:37:39,531

This is part of it.

00:37:39,561 --> 00:37:41,871

This, this pain is part of the experience.

00:37:41,901 --> 00:37:43,431

I've gotta make friends with this beast.

00:37:43,431 --> 00:37:45,711

I've gotta like have a

relationship with this thing.

00:37:45,711 --> 00:37:48,021

I can't let it be a thing I'm afraid of.

00:37:48,051 --> 00:37:49,491

It's gotta be part of the experience.

00:37:49,851 --> 00:37:51,351

And that's when I became

professional mountaineer.

00:37:51,351 --> 00:37:55,311

And as soon as he was done talking,

Vikram Bakar goes, same for me.

00:37:55,521 --> 00:37:58,551

And we all turned and we're like,

yeah, was that the same for you?

00:37:58,911 --> 00:38:02,841

And he was like, if I do three heart

surgeries for children during a

00:38:02,841 --> 00:38:04,731

day and I lose the first patient.

00:38:05,361 --> 00:38:09,831

I used to just swallow that pain, try to

hold it off, but what it would do is it

00:38:09,831 --> 00:38:13,401

would distract me as much as I would try

to fight it, the pain would distract me.

00:38:13,761 --> 00:38:17,721

It's when I lost the patient that I

would mourn the patient right there.

00:38:17,871 --> 00:38:19,611

I would own the pain right there.

00:38:19,611 --> 00:38:23,211

I'd be like, I am sorry that I

couldn't do this thing for you,

00:38:23,211 --> 00:38:24,501

and thank you for teaching me this.

00:38:24,501 --> 00:38:27,201

Dan Dworkis is like, thank you

for the lesson you just taught me.

00:38:27,651 --> 00:38:31,431

And once I did that, once I owned

it, in that moment I was free.

00:38:31,971 --> 00:38:34,551

And then I changed my

relationship with sorrow.

00:38:34,551 --> 00:38:37,611

I changed my relationship pain

and that was the moment for me

00:38:37,611 --> 00:38:39,921

that I was like, oh, I get it.

00:38:39,921 --> 00:38:42,861

When you work at that level,

there are things that you have

00:38:42,861 --> 00:38:44,691

to learn in order to survive it.

00:38:44,751 --> 00:38:49,581

Like residue, like there are things in

order to sustain yourself and be go on

00:38:49,581 --> 00:38:51,681

to be a grandparent that can be your mom.

00:38:51,951 --> 00:38:54,201

You're gonna have to change

your relationship with pain and

00:38:54,201 --> 00:38:55,521

sorrow or it'll destroy you.

00:38:55,801 --> 00:38:56,181

Denis: Yep.

00:38:56,261 --> 00:38:57,005

It's So true.

00:38:57,085 --> 00:38:59,485

When a young person who

hasn't been through it before.

00:38:59,665 --> 00:38:59,935

Preston: Yeah.

00:39:00,865 --> 00:39:01,285

Denis: Right.

00:39:01,645 --> 00:39:06,408

When they either ask you for advice

or you're trying to help them, and you

00:39:06,408 --> 00:39:07,698

have, you realize you have to tell them

00:39:07,698 --> 00:39:08,748

like it never goes away.

00:39:08,958 --> 00:39:09,318

Preston: Right.

00:39:09,873 --> 00:39:11,343

Denis: It just, you just get used to it.

00:39:11,523 --> 00:39:11,793

Preston: Yeah.

00:39:12,033 --> 00:39:14,403

Denis: And uh, that's,

it's so surprising to them.

00:39:14,763 --> 00:39:14,913

Preston: Yeah.

00:39:14,913 --> 00:39:17,553

Denis: Because they don't, if they

haven't experienced death before,

00:39:17,603 --> 00:39:19,883

it's always interesting when a person

dies 'cause there's somebody new

00:39:19,883 --> 00:39:21,293

there that you have to explain it to.

00:39:21,533 --> 00:39:21,833

Preston: Yeah.

00:39:22,343 --> 00:39:25,673

So recently we had, we had some

folks that were lost in our family

00:39:25,703 --> 00:39:26,843

and there was some kids there.

00:39:26,843 --> 00:39:29,573

And of course, you know, I'm one of

the people that are gonna be there.

00:39:29,933 --> 00:39:33,803

And it was in the days afterwards,

I gathered the kids together and

00:39:33,803 --> 00:39:35,663

I grabbed them and I was like,

listen to me, listen to me.

00:39:36,263 --> 00:39:37,583

Grief has its own rules.

00:39:37,883 --> 00:39:38,243

Right.

00:39:38,243 --> 00:39:40,223

So don't judge yourself as being crazy.

00:39:40,403 --> 00:39:41,543

Grief has its own rules.

00:39:42,023 --> 00:39:45,233

It also comes in waves, and the

waves are big in the beginning.

00:39:45,323 --> 00:39:45,953

They're big.

00:39:46,253 --> 00:39:47,603

So that's why we need swim buddies.

00:39:47,663 --> 00:39:50,153

So we're all gonna be swim buddies for

each other because while one person's

00:39:50,153 --> 00:39:51,203

up, the other person's gonna be down.

00:39:51,203 --> 00:39:51,263

Yeah.

00:39:51,413 --> 00:39:52,163

And that'll shift.

00:39:52,373 --> 00:39:54,563

And then the waves will start to go down.

00:39:54,833 --> 00:39:55,793

They'll never go away.

00:39:55,793 --> 00:39:59,003

To your point, they're never gonna go

away, but they'll get to the point where

00:39:59,003 --> 00:40:02,483

you can ride them a little more and they

won't be so that they're drowning you.

00:40:02,873 --> 00:40:03,923

So it'll take time.

00:40:03,953 --> 00:40:05,633

But together, that's why we're a team.

00:40:05,783 --> 00:40:08,333

We're gonna figure this out, but

you're not gonna judge yourself.

00:40:08,363 --> 00:40:08,753

Right.

00:40:09,053 --> 00:40:11,123

Uh, I'll do that for you and you're fine.

00:40:11,633 --> 00:40:12,893

I'll let you know if you're not fine.

00:40:12,898 --> 00:40:12,988

Yeah.

00:40:12,988 --> 00:40:13,148

Denis: But

00:40:13,148 --> 00:40:13,788

Preston: right now you're fine.

00:40:14,303 --> 00:40:14,513

Denis: Yeah.

00:40:14,543 --> 00:40:17,363

It's, it's like, uh, and the

more experience you have.

00:40:17,363 --> 00:40:19,203

Especially with tragic

or sudden, that's right.

00:40:19,203 --> 00:40:19,273

Death.

00:40:19,278 --> 00:40:19,403

Right.

00:40:19,453 --> 00:40:20,443

You go, ah, fuck, dude.

00:40:20,493 --> 00:40:24,034

I know not exactly like on, on

a clock, but I know generally

00:40:24,154 --> 00:40:25,474

how this is gonna go for you.

00:40:25,654 --> 00:40:25,954

Preston: Yep.

00:40:26,044 --> 00:40:29,434

Denis: It gets the, you can almost

predict like the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

00:40:29,494 --> 00:40:29,914

Preston: That's right.

00:40:29,914 --> 00:40:30,574

Denis: Rules of the Dead.

00:40:30,574 --> 00:40:32,734

Like what's gonna happen,

what the stages are.

00:40:32,884 --> 00:40:33,154

Preston: Yeah.

00:40:33,334 --> 00:40:35,434

Denis: Stages ne the stage

never really changed.

00:40:35,434 --> 00:40:35,794

Preston: They don't,

00:40:36,364 --> 00:40:39,364

Denis: and then people don't talk

about the residual or the, like

00:40:39,364 --> 00:40:41,134

you said, the residue of grief.

00:40:41,164 --> 00:40:41,434

Preston: Yeah.

00:40:41,824 --> 00:40:43,894

Denis: Over 20, 30, 40 years.

00:40:43,984 --> 00:40:44,164

Preston: Yeah.

00:40:44,164 --> 00:40:44,254

And

00:40:44,254 --> 00:40:47,524

Denis: you see behaviors repeated 'cause

that's what grief is what death is.

00:40:47,524 --> 00:40:47,704

Hundred.

00:40:47,914 --> 00:40:51,594

And then I had to recently do this

with somebody who's going through

00:40:51,684 --> 00:40:55,014

a great sudden loss and say,

listen, this is, this is normal.

00:40:55,074 --> 00:40:56,514

You're gonna feel this way and this way.

00:40:56,559 --> 00:40:56,849

Yeah.

00:40:56,874 --> 00:40:58,194

And then you're gonna feel okay.

00:40:58,494 --> 00:40:58,704

Preston: Yeah.

00:40:58,984 --> 00:41:00,124

Denis: Just get through this part.

00:41:00,244 --> 00:41:00,634

Preston: That's right.

00:41:00,904 --> 00:41:02,194

Denis: And then you're

gonna get to this point.

00:41:02,194 --> 00:41:03,994

And then you see it and they go, oh yeah.

00:41:03,994 --> 00:41:04,294

Right.

00:41:04,294 --> 00:41:04,624

Okay.

00:41:05,104 --> 00:41:06,574

And now I see the opening.

00:41:06,574 --> 00:41:06,934

Right.

00:41:07,364 --> 00:41:10,874

It's like, uh, somebody asks you

like, uh, uh, how to hit a fast ball

00:41:10,874 --> 00:41:12,884

or how to shoot a, a three pointer.

00:41:12,884 --> 00:41:13,064

Right.

00:41:13,064 --> 00:41:13,124

Yeah.

00:41:13,124 --> 00:41:17,204

Like, there's, somebody can teach

you that so somebody can teach

00:41:17,204 --> 00:41:18,674

you like how to overcome things.

00:41:18,734 --> 00:41:19,034

Preston: Yeah.

00:41:19,154 --> 00:41:20,354

Denis: That you have to be open.

00:41:20,354 --> 00:41:20,564

I know.

00:41:20,564 --> 00:41:22,489

You should not go to a isolate.

00:41:22,494 --> 00:41:22,604

Isolate.

00:41:22,964 --> 00:41:23,234

That's right.

00:41:23,849 --> 00:41:24,389

Oh my God.

00:41:24,389 --> 00:41:25,049

It's the worst.

00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:25,799

Preston: It's the worst.

00:41:25,799 --> 00:41:29,969

You, you need some people around you to

distract you, to make you laugh, to feed

00:41:29,969 --> 00:41:31,679

you all the things that grandmothers know.

00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:32,009

Right?

00:41:32,249 --> 00:41:32,339

Yeah.

00:41:32,339 --> 00:41:36,029

But it, it's also, and I keep wanting to

say this to people that are listening,

00:41:36,539 --> 00:41:39,839

if humans are to suffer pain, we

are not merely human to suffer pain.

00:41:39,839 --> 00:41:44,579

This is a quote by Ferris a poet, and, and

this idea is, it's not a life sentence.

00:41:44,579 --> 00:41:46,409

Like it is overwhelming.

00:41:46,409 --> 00:41:47,669

It is devastating.

00:41:47,669 --> 00:41:50,189

It can be debilitating,

but it's not forever.

00:41:50,429 --> 00:41:51,479

You just need to get through it.

00:41:51,479 --> 00:41:53,219

And that's why you need some

other humans around you.

00:41:53,969 --> 00:41:54,359

Denis: Yeah.

00:41:54,359 --> 00:41:58,764

Family and or people that have

been through it because what

00:41:58,764 --> 00:42:00,564

they're saying is a real value.

00:42:00,834 --> 00:42:01,074

Preston: Yeah.

00:42:01,074 --> 00:42:01,284

Denis: Right.

00:42:01,464 --> 00:42:05,154

Of course, we would go to a,

a basketball player or a coach

00:42:05,214 --> 00:42:06,444

to teach us the three pointer.

00:42:06,564 --> 00:42:06,894

Preston: That's right.

00:42:07,234 --> 00:42:09,184

Denis: You take a lesson in golf, right?

00:42:09,184 --> 00:42:11,689

If you Wanna learn you take

a lesson with a pro, right?

00:42:11,749 --> 00:42:12,079

Well,

00:42:12,109 --> 00:42:12,229

Preston: yeah.

00:42:12,529 --> 00:42:15,229

Denis: There's people in my family

that are pro fucking grief people.

00:42:15,379 --> 00:42:17,629

That's, we've been that through

so much death where we can really

00:42:17,629 --> 00:42:18,739

fucking coach you through it.

00:42:18,799 --> 00:42:19,309

Preston: That's right.

00:42:19,609 --> 00:42:20,029

That's right.

00:42:20,029 --> 00:42:20,539

We've been down

00:42:20,539 --> 00:42:20,779

this road.

00:42:20,779 --> 00:42:23,909

Denis: The firefighters, soldiers,

these jobs, like, that's, that's

00:42:23,909 --> 00:42:25,319

part and parcel of what they do.

00:42:25,499 --> 00:42:25,949

Preston: That's right.

00:42:26,219 --> 00:42:28,829

One of the interesting things that

happened to me in my life, and we did

00:42:28,829 --> 00:42:32,229

a Teamcast about this, but , I spent

36 hours with Chief Pfeiffer going

00:42:32,229 --> 00:42:35,739

into fires like probably you have

for your acting, going into fires in

00:42:35,739 --> 00:42:39,429

New York City and I, and in between

those, you know, you'd be in Metro Tech

00:42:39,429 --> 00:42:40,989

hanging out, waiting for the next fire.

00:42:41,169 --> 00:42:44,199

And I happened to sit with the office

with Chief Maynes, and Chief Maynes was

00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:46,119

the head of the incident management team.

00:42:46,119 --> 00:42:48,799

That was the team that

got stood up after 9/11.

00:42:48,819 --> 00:42:50,619

And they were the ones,

first ones into Katrina.

00:42:51,189 --> 00:42:52,839

And we're sitting there,

it's three in the morning.

00:42:52,839 --> 00:42:53,739

We're all tired.

00:42:53,739 --> 00:42:55,244

I'm like trying to figure

out what I'm doing.

00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,509

And, uh, he goes, Hey Preston, did

you ever hear the story about how

00:42:58,509 --> 00:43:01,679

Wildland fire saved FDNY during 9/11?

00:43:01,739 --> 00:43:02,669

I was like, what are you talking about?

00:43:03,059 --> 00:43:07,099

And, it turns out, and there's a whole

team cast on this, but Governor Cuomo

00:43:07,099 --> 00:43:10,069

had brought in an incident management

team of wildland firefighters.

00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:10,369

Yeah.

00:43:10,369 --> 00:43:11,989

And there's great stories like Yeah.

00:43:12,049 --> 00:43:14,719

The firefighters were like, Hey, if

we see a tree, we'll let you know.

00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:15,439

Smokey the bear.

00:43:15,444 --> 00:43:15,684

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:43:15,769 --> 00:43:15,889

yeah.

00:43:15,889 --> 00:43:16,789

Get the fuck outta here.

00:43:17,059 --> 00:43:17,329

Denis: Yeah.

00:43:17,509 --> 00:43:18,989

Preston: But they actually

really were very, very helpful.

00:43:19,534 --> 00:43:20,734

But the reason I'm,

00:43:20,734 --> 00:43:21,634

Denis: he's very helpful.

00:43:21,694 --> 00:43:22,114

Preston: Yeah.

00:43:22,114 --> 00:43:25,594

And the reason I'm telling you this is

because when I said to Chief Maynes,

00:43:25,654 --> 00:43:27,784

how does not everyone know this story?

00:43:27,874 --> 00:43:29,134

This is an amazing story.

00:43:29,254 --> 00:43:31,264

And he goes, it's not my story to tell.

00:43:31,264 --> 00:43:32,164

It's not our story to tell.

00:43:32,164 --> 00:43:33,184

It's their story to tell.

00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:33,489

Yeah.

00:43:33,494 --> 00:43:37,144

And so a year later, right, i I, I kept

thinking about, kept thinking about it.

00:43:37,354 --> 00:43:40,205

I go out to work with Wild

Land Fire and meet the chief

00:43:40,355 --> 00:43:42,065

who was the guy on the ground.

00:43:42,065 --> 00:43:42,605

And I was like,

00:43:42,605 --> 00:43:42,915

Denis: that's awesome.

00:43:43,265 --> 00:43:45,035

Preston: I was like, why

aren't you telling this story?

00:43:45,035 --> 00:43:47,285

And he said, not my story to tell.

00:43:47,285 --> 00:43:48,815

And I was like, for the

love of fucking God.

00:43:48,935 --> 00:43:52,715

So I got 'em both on the phone and

I was like, the world needs to hear

00:43:52,715 --> 00:43:56,255

this, so I'm gonna be the guy that's

gonna tell the story and you're

00:43:56,255 --> 00:43:57,575

just gonna make sure I tell it true.

00:43:57,725 --> 00:44:00,635

And we got him on the same

team cast and we recorded and

00:44:00,635 --> 00:44:02,345

it was such an amazing thing.

00:44:03,170 --> 00:44:04,970

All these little things

that people don't know.

00:44:04,970 --> 00:44:09,060

Like when the chief, and I'm forgetting

his name, I deeply apologize, but when

00:44:09,060 --> 00:44:12,990

the wildland fire chief retired, it

was the FDNY flew out and retired him.

00:44:13,135 --> 00:44:14,220

Denis: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:14,220 --> 00:44:16,890

Preston: And like stuff like that,

that people just, like, they don't

00:44:16,890 --> 00:44:20,950

understand some of this stuff, the

cultural stuff of it, how important it is.

00:44:21,410 --> 00:44:22,820

Denis: Yeah, man people don't understand.

00:44:22,970 --> 00:44:26,130

They don't understand until

they, they watch something maybe

00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:26,960

Rescue Me you or something.

00:44:27,380 --> 00:44:27,500

Yeah.

00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:27,980

Shows it.