What happens when you spend your entire childhood feeling invisible?

For many adult children of dysfunction, the deepest wounds aren't always physical—they're emotional. Feeling unseen. Feeling unheard. Believing you don't matter.

In this incredibly honest conversation, I sit down with Chris Milson, host of the Mental Health Movement Podcast: Voice for the Voiceless, to talk about what it's really like to grow up in a broken home, survive multiple suicide attempts, and slowly rebuild a life worth living.

Chris opens up about:

✔️ Growing up feeling invisible after his parents divorced

✔️ Surviving suicide attempts at 14 and again at 27

✔️ Living with PTSD and childhood trauma

✔️ Why boundaries changed his entire life

✔️ Learning to love himself after years of self-hatred

✔️ The surprising power of community and sharing your story

✔️ Why grief is so much more than losing someone

✔️ How one supportive teacher helped save his life

✔️ The importance of being gentle with yourself

We also dive into nervous system healing, emotional regulation, childhood conditioning, and why so many adult children struggle to receive love—even when it's finally safe.

If you've ever felt like your voice didn't matter…

If you've ever struggled with shame…

Or wondered if healing is actually possible…

This conversation is proof that it is.

Because healing doesn't begin when life becomes perfect.

It begins the moment you decide your story isn't over.

Connect with Chris Milson

🎙 Mental Health Movement Podcast – Voice for the Voiceless

Spotify:

https://open.spotify.com/show/5tmUdRQ1O7jluUaQuQECMe?si=2smLoSl3QG2cmVgpiLiVWw

Facebook Community:

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YouTube:

https://youtube.com/@mentalhealthmovement-voice1382?si=5RLspG8LwqDHDifm

Instagram:

@MentalHealthMovementPod

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As an international inspirational speaker, NLP Practitioner, Trauma-Informed Coach, Neurofit Trainer, and Best-Selling Author, I bring both deep personal experience and professional training to the work I do. I believe in prevention, not just intervention — and use a body, mind, and spirit approach to guide others toward becoming the happiest, healthiest versions of themselves.

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Well, hello everybody, and welcome

back to Adult Child of Dysfunction.

2

Today we have with us Chris Milson.

3

He is the host of the mental health

movement podcast, Voice for the Voiceless.

4

So I did just get a chance to

listen to one of your episodes

5

that you did on another podcast,

and woo, do you have a story.

6

Thank you for having me, Tammy.

7

Yeah, as we all do.

8

But welcome, Chris.

9

How are you?

10

Good.

11

How are you?

12

I am doing great.

13

So we're gonna jump right in.

14

We're just gonna talk about all things.,

15

I said, I listened to Chris' episode that

he did on another podcast, and it sounds

16

like so many people that I deal with,

we kinda live these, , parallel lives.

17

We have not the exact same situation,

because it's never the same, but

18

the, after effects are the same.

19

So, we're gonna jump in and

talk about a lot of that.

20

And, I'm just happy that you're here,

and I'm happy that you started that

21

podcast, because I 100% agree that

so many people don't know they have

22

a voice, or they don't know how to

use it, or they're ashamed to use it.

23

And what a message that you have a voice,

so use it, no matter what your story was.

24

So go ahead and tell us just a quick

version, the shortened version,

25

because we're gonna go throughout

all of your stories as we're talking.

26

Yeah.

27

But, what led you to start that podcast?

28

I think it just kinda goes back to,

, 14-year-old me, after my first attempt,

29

and then I had a second attempt at 27.

30

And just being at a point in my life

of, , having that stigma as a man of

31

not sharing your feelings, not being

encouraged to tell your story or just

32

tell what you're feeling at that time.

33

And I think around the time that I

lost my brother, is when I really

34

decided to commit to the podcast,

because he helped me find my voice.

35

And essentially the name is based off of

his and I's relationship of, he helped me

36

find my voice, and when he passed away I

wanted to carry on what he passed on to

37

me and be that voice for the voiceless.

38

And it has allowed me to meet so many

incredible people, and be able to

39

share that light that I've been able

to, build within myself, to others

40

that find themself in darkness.

41

Perfect.

42

And I love the name, The

Voice for the Voiceless.

43

And I said, it caught my attention

absolutely immediately when

44

I saw all the stuff you did.

45

So you talked about two

attempts, and one was when you

46

were 14, one when you were 27.

47

Leading up to the first one, . , , I've

met people that have had attempts and

48

had several attempts that haven't had

this, really traumatic childhood even.

49

It just, they always had this

feeling of darkness, honestly.

50

Yeah.

51

Did you have things leading up to it?

52

, Were there circumstances that caused you

to be in that dark place, or was it just,

53

I don't wanna say how you were born and

how you were wired, because I hate to ever

54

even use those words, but some people,

it takes more to spark that inner spark.

55

Yeah.

56

so I grew up, in a broken home.

57

my, parents got divorced when I was

eight years old, so I was at the age of

58

really understanding, Mom and Dad aren't

together anymore, and maybe it's perhaps

59

my fault, and that manifested into my

early teenage years of constantly moving

60

around, parents constantly fighting,

me trying to, discover my identity and

61

everything, and just, I felt invisible.

62

growing up with two other siblings

who a parent had a favorite, and I was

63

just there 'cause I was the oldest.

64

And I wanted to be seen

and I wanted to be heard.

65

And unfortunately, mix that with the

darkness that I had, in my heart at the

66

time, it was, I had the means, I had the

plan in school, and my thought process

67

was what better way, and I don't wanna

glorify me attempting, but what better

68

way to be seen and heard than to do it

in front of classmates, regardless , if

69

it was in a negative light, essentially.

70

Right.

71

And so obviously it was unsuccessful.

72

Did you go after that, did you start

immediately, did your parents give you the

73

support to get you immediately into some

pretty intensive therapy then at that age?

74

Not at all.

75

I had a fellow classmate who kind of

caught wind , of the attempt, and,

76

contacted the resource officer who before

my attempt tackled me to the ground, and

77

I was Baker Acted into a, a psych ward.

78

I did outpatient therapy for about

three weeks 'cause, I don't know,

79

I think just at that time mental

health resources weren't what they

80

are now, and they paired me with

a, a gambling, addiction therapist.

81

14 years old- Oh … and that was

the therapist they paired me with.

82

And honestly- That doesn't sound

83

very sensible.

84

Yeah.

85

Sorry.

86

And I couldn't tell you one

helpful lesson that person gave me.

87

And not to any fault of hers, 'cause I'm

sure that was just the weird programs back

88

then, but it was my first impression of

therapy, and it was a very negative one.

89

Yeah.

90

And understandably, because you're going

in there with these deep, dark, , deep,

91

deep hard to heal and things that need to

be processed, ne- need to be dealt with.

92

you were saying, identity- crises and

all this other stuff and they're they're

93

dealing with addiction, literally

Right And it's two totally different…

94

obviously addiction feeds into the

deep dark and all that other stuff,

95

but yeah, two totally different areas

of- Yeah … expertise, for sure.

96

So , what did you do then to get

yourself through to another 13 year?

97

What played out?

98

- What was your thought process?

99

How were you keeping yourself even

positive enough to keep going?

100

So after 14, going into my sophomore year,

just really started isolating myself from

101

the world and just trying to find ways to,

I guess, harness the darkness to where it

102

wouldn't get that out of control again.

103

So I, dove myself into music, really deep

into music, and it helped me get through

104

some of the worst times because, 15…

105

So sophomore year I went to

three different high schools

106

within a span of a year.

107

And again, due to instability at home,

mom going through several relationships

108

and several different homes, it was

three different high schools within, six

109

to eight months, and it was horrible.

110

Yeah.

111

and I, I didn't really know what

to do outside of coping mechanisms

112

that I more or less taught myself.

113

It was writing.

114

It was music.

115

And just numbed myself,

without any substances, for

116

that 13 years spanning to 27.

117

I mean, as soon as I was old enough to

work, that's, that's all I did, just

118

work, come home, work, come home, and

didn't really cater to any of my mental

119

health struggles that I was having.

120

Hmm.

121

So you just basically dissociated

and numbed and dysfunctioned.

122

Yeah.

123

You just showed up in the world.

124

I can resonate with that.

125

So many people resonate with that.

126

But kudos to you and proud of you for,

s- the survival instinct kicks in, and

127

you did it in a very intelligent way.

128

the music was, very healing.

129

I work a lot with people with sound

therapy and frequency therapy and

130

everything else, and just that,

just the fact that you turn to that

131

instead of something more damaging-

Mm-hmm … is positive in itself.

132

Yeah.

133

Yeah, absolutely.

134

And then so you progressed on.

135

I mean, I- that's a long time to, to

be stuck in this place with no support.

136

Did you have any support at home?

137

No, obviously not.

138

You couldn't tell- Yeah, not at all

139

… your parents what was going on.

140

Mm-mm.

141

Did your parents, or your mom I guess,

because it was an unstable figure, father

142

figure coming in and out pro- you said.

143

Mm-hmm.

144

But did your mom even know

about the first attempt?

145

I mean, she had to.

146

So, so she did, and, she sent me

away to a family friend and said

147

she couldn't put up with me anymore.

148

I self-harmed a lot when I was 14, and

after the attempt, I just remember,

149

I had a self-harming incident and my

mom walked in on me doing it, and she

150

said, "I can't put up with you anymore,"

and she sent me away for three months.

151

No contact at all.

152

Didn't check to see if I was

okay or alive, just sent me away.

153

And I'll never forget that, 'cause

it's, just kind of a reflection of our

154

relationship, and she was, a big addict as

well, so that didn't help things either.

155

the support wasn't really there

throughout most of my life.

156

I think when I really started

noticing how bad my mental

157

health was was 2016, I wanna say.

158

I tried doing wrestling in school.

159

I'm a really big wrestling fan.

160

I grew up, I've been watching it since

I was seven years old, and I saw that

161

there was a school fairly close to

me, and I wanted to try, try to do

162

it, try to get in the business and do

what my passion was telling me to do.

163

And I couldn't take a coach yelling

in my face for doing things wrong.

164

I would shut down.

165

Mm-hmm.

166

And I remember one specific incident

where they were trying to teach us holds

167

or something like that, and I wasn't

piecing things together, and, this guy's

168

a 20-year vet, so he expects people to

be on point for everything they're doing.

169

And I was getting the beginning,

kind of skipped to the end, and just

170

didn't get the stuff in the middle

right, and he started screaming at me.

171

And I remember putting my head

down and just leaving the ring.

172

He's "Don't shut down, don't shut

down," and I just didn't even respond.

173

And that was, just kind of

going back to no support.

174

I tore my shoulder in school,

and the first thing my dad

175

says I, was, "I told you so."

176

didn't have any belief

in me chasing my passion.

177

he just said, "I told you it was

gonna happen," and that was that.

178

Wow.

179

And it doesn't help that, yeah,

'cause you need, they say, and really

180

statistics show, that when kids are

going through a tough time at home,

181

they only need one support person.

182

One support person can h-

make the difference between

183

thriving and completely not.

184

Right.

185

And, you would have liked to think that

would be your coach, who would see…

186

I mean, if he's yelling, "Don't shut

down," he knows what you're doing.

187

He knows what you're going through.

188

If he's yelling that, he,

he up here knew, logically.

189

Yeah.

190

And that would have been a good time

for him to have taken you under his wing

191

and been "Okay, this kid's struggling."

192

Mm-hmm.

193

But yeah, no, I can , totally get that.

194

I can remember that too.

195

I was a big shut-down, and I was, when

I became a teacher, that was very easy

196

for me to see the children that you

could tell got yelled at a lot at home.

197

Yeah.

198

Because if anybody would even raise

their voice, it was, instant body change.

199

Right.

200

Backing up, closing

their eyes, looking down.

201

But it's, and I can r- I can

just remember saying you can't

202

y- some kids you just can't yell.

203

You can't yell at kids like that because

some of them- I was a big flincher.

204

Oh, yeah.

205

Okay.

206

Mm-hmm.

207

And I, that, that didn't stop

until a couple years ago.

208

I don't know why.

209

It would, it's been something

that I've always struggled with.

210

somebody would lift their hand and I

would just, go like that, and I'm just

211

so used to my mom would break stuff over

my head when I was a kid, It was violent.

212

Yeah.

213

Yeah.

214

She was very violent.

215

And, That just kind of bled over into

my adulthood and didn't really stop

216

until maybe about three years ago.

217

Mm.

218

So did you go through, with all of

your therapies and everything that

219

you've done, what do you think was

the most successful part of therapy?

220

did you go through EMDR?

221

.. Talk about all of your - different

processes that you did.

222

So the very first experience I had with

therapy was after my second attempt.

223

I knew I needed to get help for

myself, and I finally got to that point

224

where it's okay, I need to address

all these things that are going in

225

through my head because it was, a

darker time than when I was at 14.

226

It was, "I'm really gonna do this,

and I'm just fed up of putting up with

227

all the things I'm putting up with."

228

And after I started the second, s- my

first therapist in New Jersey when I

229

was living up there, first two sessions

I cried for two hours straight.

230

didn't say two words, just

couldn't look at her in the face.

231

And, I, I was a mess.

232

And I think that's just what I wanted.

233

I wanted somebody to, to listen,

somebody to, to see all that

234

pain that I was feeling and

just was never able to express.

235

And she gave me the ability to, tell

my mom, "I don't wanna do this anymore,

236

and we need to be completely apart."

237

fast-forwarding to the therapist

that I have now down here in

238

Florida, the greatest thing that

she's taught me was boundaries.

239

Mm-hmm.

240

I was never taught what boundaries were.

241

I didn't know how to firmly

set them down without it being

242

an aggressive conversation.

243

And it has allowed me to communicate

with my mother and father in different

244

ways that I never thought were

possible, because they don't talk to

245

me like a respectful person sometimes.

246

They don't appreciate, my

perspective on how I lived my life.

247

And I think my dad has finally gotten

to the point where he knows he can't

248

push anymore, and my mom just, she knows

that she can't cross that line anymore.

249

Well, yeah, and when you're a child

and their, your boundaries are…

250

Even when you try to set them and

they are so blatantly violated, you

251

learn that it's not even worth it.

252

you get conditioned- Yeah … to

think it's not even worth it.

253

So until someone builds you back up,

which it sounds like your therapist did,

254

enough to say basically, "Hey, Chris,

you're a grown-ass man now, and you

255

don't have to tolerate any of that."

256

Exactly.

257

And I know I heard my whole life, "How

can you say that about your mother?

258

She's your mother.

259

How can you say you hate her?

260

She's your mother."

261

And I was "How can she pimp

me out to her drug dealer?

262

She's my mother."

263

But nobody ever looked at that side of it.

264

And it was, I didn't have, I never

had the opportunity to actually set

265

my own boundaries with my mother

because she passed when I was 17.

266

But, yeah, it would've been so

kinda liberating to just be what?

267

I don't deserve this.

268

You can't talk to me this way.

269

I'm a grown-ass adult."

270

Right.

271

I don't care what you said.

272

so how freeing just to be

able to set those boundaries.

273

But for the people out there listening,

and I caution you too, if you've never

274

set them, if you've never understood what

a boundary is or, like I said, you've,

275

they've been so blatantly violated your

whole life, you've never really honored

276

them or learned how to, start small.

277

Start very small.

278

If you've been fighting with your mom

and you're, 40 years old and you've been

279

fighting with your mom about the same

thing and whatever it is for 40 years,

280

don't let that be your first boundary.

281

I tell people, baby steps.

282

I, do, do you remember your first

boundary that you ever set with anybody?

283

My very first boundary was, telling

somebody that I didn't want to

284

go somewhere with them because

it had a person I didn't and it

285

was a weird conversation 'cause

they're "Oh, just ignore him.

286

Just ignore him."

287

I'm "Nah, man," "I don't want them part of

my life or in my circle, so I don't wanna

288

be, I don't wanna be in that environment."

289

Right.

290

And they didn't take too well to

it, but, a boundary is a boundary.

291

You respect mine, I respect yours.

292

Exactly, and a boundary, again, for

those people listening, a boundary

293

is not to punish the other person.

294

A boundary is p- to protect

your own mental wellbeing.

295

Exactly.

296

So I remember my first one because I

was so used to people yelling at me,

297

talking down to me, everything else,

and I remember my best friend said

298

to me one day, and it was my husband

talking to me, and she said, "Do when

299

you love someone, you don't talk to

them that way, and you do not have

300

to let him talk to you that way?"

301

And I remember thinking, "Oh," I, first

of all, I didn't even realize it becau-

302

that it was that offensive because I

was so used to it, and it was just that

303

typical degrading, pick on you kinda talk.

304

But I remember, I remember turning around

the first time and I was "You are not

305

good enough to talk to me that way.

306

I don't deserve that."

307

And literally he, backed up

and he was "I'm so sorry.

308

I didn't even realize."

309

But it was funny when you do that

very first one, it was an okay thing.

310

So it was your chest gets a little

bigger and you poof out a little more

311

and you gain a little more confidence,

and you're "Yeah, I got this."

312

But for the people that are

not ready to tackle that, and I

313

totally respect that- Start small.

314

Go into a restaurant, order

something that's not on the menu.

315

That's my go-to for everybody.

316

Because what's the worst thing

that can happen is they can say no.

317

Right.

318

Right.

319

I mean, you gonna die from

that, Chris, if they say no-

320

you can't have an enchilada when we

don't have an enchilada on the menu?

321

Right.

322

No.

323

So everything to me is baby steps in

this whole healing process, because

324

you tackled for years and years and

years some big, big concepts, and

325

then you- Mm-hmm … they follow you

into adulthood, as we all know, and

326

that's what we're unraveling here.

327

So there's a, it's a process.

328

And I, I think, the heaviest

conversation I've had with

329

my mom was actually recently.

330

she asked me, she's I love you, right?"

331

And I said, "That's a

loaded question, Mom."

332

I, I said, I don't wanna say this to

hurt your feelings or anything, but

333

you can't just cause as much shit as

you've caused and just sprinkle the

334

words 'I love you' on it and think

that everything's gonna be okay."

335

I said, "Your relationship with me,

Cameron, and Caleb, my brother and sister,

336

are a result of things that you have done.

337

E- parents who love their kids

don't do what you've done to us.

338

You might think that it's out of love,

but none of us feel those three words."

339

I hated the words "I love

you" for so long, Tammy.

340

Yeah.

341

I didn't say it to anybody, whether it was

friends, whether it was extended family.

342

I never said it because of her.

343

And my brother, before he was taken

away, he would always say, "I love you"

344

before we were, before I went home.

345

He's "Yo, I love you,

bro," and I'm "Oh, yeah.

346

Thanks, man.

347

Thanks, man."

348

And then it got comfortable to the

point of saying I love you to him,

349

and it has passed to my siblings now,

and, I always make sure to say it

350

to both my little brother and little

sister because, Santi taught me that.

351

Right.

352

Yeah, and that's, that's a hard thing.

353

And a lot of ti- I, I

mean, I get it, though.

354

It's empty words.

355

Mm-hmm.

356

it's I tell people even when

they're dealing with their children,

357

when you're angry with them,

never say, "I love you, but…"

358

Mm-hmm.

359

Because, it's don't, don't do that

because it, it just, you said, it

360

sprinkles that feeling of no you don't,

clearly, 'cause you just said, "but."

361

it's conditional.

362

Exactly.

363

I love you if you do this,

and I love you if you do that.

364

And a lot of it, too, let me ask you,

'cause I know a lot of my therapy and a

365

lot of my healing was being able after

a while to even to receive that love.

366

Yeah.

367

Yeah.

368

And, I think, Loving yourself, I think,

is one of the hardest things too, because

369

you've been told all your life that

you weren't worth something, or you

370

believe those words that your abuser

or your parent or whoever it was, it

371

could be both of the same person, told

you that you weren't worth anything.

372

And I think the, the biggest step

for me in therapy was telling

373

myself that I loved myself.

374

And, a lot of the self-destruction over

the years because of my relationship

375

with myself and my parents just kind of

manifested into I wouldn't say darkness,

376

just kind of, negative thoughts about

myself, and finally being able to say

377

those three words to myself, and receiving

that love, and doing things for myself

378

that I can express those words I think

have been, not only the most liberating

379

thing, but also the hardest journey too.

380

Right.

381

Let me ask you, did you ever

do any kind of somatic work?

382

what?

383

with your body, somatic-

Mm-mm … healing kind of thing?

384

No.

385

'Cause, and that's why I asked, so

your primary way to heal was your

386

psychotherapy, your talk therapy.

387

Right, exactly.

388

And it's funny because with

me it was just the opposite.

389

Not that it didn't work, and I

love- I still go to a therapist,

390

don't get me wrong, and I love it.

391

But it was me, you said, you can't take

that in because it's your nervous system.

392

It's the PTS.

393

I mean, you have severe PTSD that

you are healing from, that's why.

394

And it's all sensory-based.

395

That's why you said- Yeah

396

somebody'll say something

or look the wrong way or…

397

To me it was smells.

398

smells get me.

399

Mm.

400

And so I had to do a lot of body

work, a lot of somatic getting it

401

out of your body, because I feel…

402

You ever read the book

The Body Keeps Score?

403

Mm-mm.

404

Oh, my gosh, read that

book and you will be "Wow."

405

I mean, it's like a game changer.

406

It's about how…

407

And it's all about trauma, and it can be

childhood trauma, it can be going to war,

408

it can be any kind of trauma, and how if

it's unprocessed, which everything that

409

you dealt with was, it gets stored in your

body, in every single cell in your body.

410

Okay.

411

So even though, I tell people, feeling

something in your body, like say,

412

okay, let's just say now hypothetically

you've gone, "Okay, I forgive my mom."

413

I'm just being hypothetical here.

414

Mm-hmm.

415

And you go, "Okay, I've forgiven

her," or, "I've forgiven my friend

416

that stole $7,000 from me, okay?

417

And I've forgiven him, and I'm over it."

418

Logically you're over

it, everything's good.

419

You've done all the affirmations,

you've talked, you've EFT tapped,

420

you've done all the stuff, right?

421

And then all of a sudden you see

them and your whole body clenches.

422

Mm-hmm.

423

That is your signal, and I always

say the universe's signal, that

424

nope, not quite over that one yet.

425

Yeah.

426

So I tell people, and I don't know if

you've ever done this, if you wake up

427

in the morning and do a body check.

428

And then you can kind of

feel where the tension lies.

429

Mm-hmm.

430

And then you can think into that or

breathe into that or, you, you're,

431

you're, you've never done somatic

work, so it's a whole new concept.

432

But, it's really interesting for people.

433

Because I, I, I had to do it.

434

I had to get in my body.

435

dogs when they have a fight,

they, what do they do?

436

They shake and they wiggle and they

wah-wah-wah-wah, and they- Yeah … beat

437

it out of their nervous system.

438

do you ever, I don't know.

439

This is…

440

I was just curious.

441

I always ask people.

442

For, for me, I feel any time that

I'm feeling, any intense emotion like

443

anger or sadness or even grief, I,

I'm really big with, breathing work,

444

I, I think, grounding myself has helped

me tremendously, over the last year,

445

especially 'cause in February, I lost my

grandfather and I spoke at his funeral.

446

Sorry.

447

And…

448

Thank you.

449

before I started speaking, I'm sitting

there hyperventilating, I don't know

450

what I'm gonna say, and just raw emotion.

451

And before I grabbed the microphone,

I just took a really deep breath and,

452

I was the only person who spoke at

his funeral that made everybody laugh.

453

And I, I took great pride in that

because, grief is something, a-

454

another emotion that we're not taught

how to channel when we're growing up.

455

And that's one thing that therapy has

helped me tremendously is, is grief.

456

Because I grew up in a family that

doesn't talk about family deaths.

457

I don't, I don't remember anybody

passing away as a kid that was

458

talked about or celebrated or, just

mentioned after they passed away.

459

Hmm.

460

And when I lost one of my really good

461

couldn't see our loved ones, she was by

herself in the hospital before she passed.

462

Hmm.

463

And I remember how my heart felt, and

I think that was my first, that was the

464

year I started the therapist I have now.

465

So I've been with her about six years now.

466

And the day I started therapy with

her, another friend passed away.

467

And- I just remember saying to

her, obviously COVID was really

468

bad for everybody, and I didn't

know how to deal with grief.

469

Funny enough, there is a show called

Robot Chicken that I grew up with.

470

basically it's a bunch of

claymations that do a bunch of bits.

471

And I specifically remember, something

that was shown to us in high school

472

in psychology class on grief.

473

It was a giraffe that fell into quicksand

that went through all five stages of

474

grief, and that's how I got through

two deaths before I started therapy.

475

And it's crazy with little tools that

will just kinda bury itself in the back

476

of your head until you're ready to use it.

477

And grief is something I'm

very big on talking about.

478

you don't just say, "They

passed away," and just leave it.

479

I refuse to be that way.

480

I, I wanna celebrate that person's

memory and keep their memory alive.

481

My…

482

One of my very best friends is actually

a grief, grief coach, and she's a widow.

483

And so she coaches, she has The

Positive Widow is her brand.

484

But it's amazing how so many of the things

that we do and we talk about intercept.

485

So, we can go on stage and

talk together because even…

486

a lot of people think grief is

just some- losing someone, period.

487

And I'm no, as you grew up, like you

being an adult child of dysfunction,

488

you had to g- you're still probably

grieving your lost childhood.

489

You're grieving the parents you never had.

490

You, you're gri- when you grow up with

an addict, you've got anticipatory grief

491

where you never know one day from the

next if they're gonna be breathing, and

492

you're grieving that your whole life.

493

So a lot of people, if you, a lot

of people will come to me and we'll

494

be talking, and I'll literally

say to them, "You're grieving."

495

And they're "No, I didn't lose anybody."

496

I'm "You don't have to lose somebody."

497

you don't have to have somebody pass away.

498

That is not the only reason we grieve.

499

There's a thousand

different reasons we grieve.

500

But you're right, it's every step,

there's the five steps, and you kinda

501

work through each one in your own pace.

502

And, even you, you've had several

losses even just recently.

503

And I did a talk one time on, the

10 things to say to people or not

504

say to people when they're grieving.

505

'Cause how many times did you

hear, "Oh, it's been a year.

506

Get over it"?

507

Yep.

508

Or, it's, "They're in a better place," or-

Ugh … "They're not suffering anymore."

509

And every time I hear any of those

things, my immediate response is,

510

"That doesn't make me feel any better."

511

No.

512

but I, I can appreciate people taking- I

guess effort, I'll put that in quotations,

513

effort to try and make me feel better.

514

and, and I just feel sometimes I just

don't talk about, the losses or how I feel

515

about certain losses to anybody outside

of my therapist because, the therapist

516

isn't, isn't a friend, quote, unquote.

517

I mean, they, they can be a

friend, but you, you get what I

518

mean on that when I say that part.

519

Yeah.

520

but they're not giving you the same

advice or the same safe space that a

521

friend outside of therapy would give you.

522

Right.

523

And, and you can do, it's kind of I had

a friend that went … is just going,

524

is going through cancer right now,

and you can say, you can have all the

525

good intentions in the world, but you

can say things that are very harmful.

526

And you don't mean to- Yeah … because

you're trying to be a friend.

527

So that's why I feel people that are going

through things, kind of you with, a loss,

528

you're better off not saying anything

than setting yourself up for failure.

529

Exactly.

530

But that's why it's so important

to have podcasts yours.

531

And I loved what you said about

your group, and we're gonna get

532

into talking about your group in

a second, because I love that you

533

pointed out, and I never think about

this, the anonymous post in Facebook.

534

Mm-hmm.

535

How powerful.

536

I got thinking about how powerful

that was, and it makes me mad.

537

I, I never really thought

about how powerful it was until

538

I heard you say that today.

539

But so many times I look at an

anonymous post, and then I watch the

540

comments afterwards- And it's why

are you being ugly to someone who

541

didn't wanna tell you who they were?

542

They're trying to get support,

and they don't feel comfortable

543

enough to come out and do it.

544

Right.

545

Give them the same love you would do if

it was your best friend sitting there.

546

Right.

547

Exactly.

548

So, it really opened my eyes.

549

I mean, just 45 minutes before

this podcast, I was "Wow, I

550

never really thought about the

power of that anonymous posting."

551

Mm-hmm.

552

And so talk about your group.

553

So, it had actually started before I

started therapy, believe it or not.

554

I was part of this group called

Suicide Prevention Rocks, and I

555

just kinda got something in my

head that said, "All right, I wanna

556

share my story in some capacity."

557

I need to get it off my chest

and just kind of let other people

558

know that they're not alone.

559

So shared my story in there, and it

got quite the traction in the group.

560

Think about 600, 700 likes.

561

And, I'm "Okay, maybe

I have something here.

562

Maybe, maybe we can do

something with this."

563

So I kept sharing a little bit

more inspiring words of just,

564

"Hey," "I'm having a bad day,

but it's okay because XYZ."

565

And they reached out to me

and said, "Hey," "how would

566

you to write for, this blog?

567

It's for a gentleman who had

lost his husband to suicide, and,

568

he would you to, to write some

blogs for suicide prevention."

569

I'm "Cool, yeah.

570

That sounds great."

571

Posted the first one, and,

It, it went pretty good.

572

it got a little bit of traction, and then

I did a second one, and it just kind of

573

sat there in pending for a little bit.

574

And I was just sitting there

for maybe about a week or

575

two, and it never got posted.

576

I'm "Okay, so I think they're just

trying to pocket me because traffic

577

was going to me and not to their page."

578

And I, I can understand if you're, putting

money and time into your own group and

579

somebody's taking that attention away.

580

I can understand it to an extent.

581

But then I'm "Okay, I'm just

gonna create my own page and just

582

kind of create what my intention

of my, of sharing my story was."

583

So I created that, and they got

pissed off at me for doing that.

584

They were "Oh, did you

start another group?"

585

And this and that.

586

I'm "Dude, you guys weren't posting

anything that I was sharing."

587

I'm "That's what I was under

the assumption we were doing."

588

we're both in the mental health

community trying to share awareness.

589

isn't that what we're doing?

590

Yeah, but, but X, Y, Z.

591

I don't even remember the argument.

592

I'm "Okay, well, respectfully I'm just

gonna walk away and do my own thing."

593

So the group started as a

public group, and it started

594

getting a little bit of traffic.

595

And when I started sharing my story,

I'm okay, my mom has her little spies of

596

people on Facebook that will just, look

for anything I post and share it to her.

597

And I, I weeded them out one at a

time, and I started figuring out who

598

was telling her things I was saying.

599

I'm okay, I cannot let them compromise

this group, and anybody else who's

600

sharing stuff in there, I don't

want them to be compromised either.

601

Right.

602

So when I made it private,

more people were sharing.

603

the amount of people that

were sharing was unbelievable.

604

there is this one girl, and I- I'm

gonna shout her out because I think

605

out of everybody I've ever met, she

has put in so much growth to who

606

she is and growing as a mother and

everything that she's doing right now.

607

my friend Ashley.

608

Very introverted, very, struggling

with her identity and everything

609

else before she was diagnosed.

610

And she became a mother, and she started

figuring out all her diagnostics of,

611

the things that she was struggling with.

612

And the person she is now compared

to the person that she was when she

613

joined the group, 100% different.

614

Mm.

615

And that's what I wanted

out of that group.

616

I wanted people that

could share their story.

617

I wanted people that could say, "Hey,

I was this way five years ago, and five

618

years later I'm a completely different

person because I shared my story."

619

Right.

620

And there's plenty of stories

that are part of that group that

621

have turned out to be that way.

622

I remember the first time- Somebody

sent me a message on the side and told

623

me that the group saved their life.

624

And I'm thinking to myself, I'm

"I don't know how true that is."

625

I, I appreciate it if the,

if you're being sincere.

626

And I'm I'm just really glad that

you have a safe space to share your

627

story and, feel comfortable enough

to share what you're sharing."

628

And just hearing things that knows,

knowing that I'm doing the right things

629

and helping as many people as I'm helping.

630

Well, you definitely are.

631

And I'm gonna put the link to that group

in the show notes so people can apply.

632

I guess they have to apply or-

Yeah … answer questions, and you

633

screen them, which is p- perfectly

the right way to do it, you said.

634

I mean, but I did point out, I did

realize by you mentioning that thing

635

about the power of the anonymous

post, that was, that was incredible.

636

But- you're saving lives.

637

you- Mm … might not know it, but

deep down in your heart, and it's I

638

say, we, we have this energy field

around us, and every time we can put

639

that positive energy into the world,

it has this imme- immense ripple

640

effect that we don't even understand.

641

Absolutely.

642

So you can say one thing to someone

seemingly so insignificant, but let's just

643

say for instance you have a cashier at the

grocery store and she was in that deep,

644

dark place that we talked about that you

were at a couple times in your life, and

645

you tell her to have a blessed day instead

of, "Thanks," and grab your change.

646

You never know.

647

And then so what does she do?

648

You've just put her spirits up.

649

Well, the next five people she

interacts with are gonna have

650

that positive energy frequency.

651

I'm all about- Yeah … energy, Yeah.

652

So it, it's kind of my podcast.

653

A lot of people don't

comment on my podcast.

654

They don't

655

They don't say anything.

656

It's crickets.

657

And I'm "What the hell?"

658

does nobody listen to this thing?

659

But I get p- private

messages all the time.

660

Mm-hmm.

661

So you're doing good.

662

I'm telling you you're doing good.

663

you're it's, it's hard to

see it for yourself though.

664

Yeah.

665

And my theory going in, same thing with

my podcast, was if only one, if every

666

day I can make one person's life a little

brighter, I've more than done my job.

667

I've- Yeah … fulfilled my purpose.

668

And that's why I to give, I

said, kind of tangible things.

669

what can we do if we wake up

in the morning and we feel an

670

elephant is sitting on our chest?

671

Right.

672

I mean, there, there is … 'Cause there's

a lot … We've collectively, I mean,

673

just between you and I collectively, we've

probably had 50 or 60 years of healing.

674

Yeah.

675

And, you, you said something, the,

the cashier, little thing there I

676

just wanted to touch on really quick.

677

my grandfather always taught me to,

to smile at your neighbor, Just always

678

acknowledge the people that you pass by.

679

You never know whose

day you're gonna change.

680

I struggled with that a lot when I was

a kid, just being seen and being heard,

681

Being a, an older brother of, of

three, three, siblings, or two other

682

siblings, My parents had their favorites.

683

my brother was my dad's favorite,

and my sister was my mom's

684

favorite, and I was just there.

685

And my grandfather was the

first one to affirm that to me.

686

He was you were invincible, and

you were treated you didn't exist

687

from the day that they were born."

688

And that's not a shot at them.

689

I love my, my siblings very much,

but ever since they were born, I

690

disappeared out of my parents' brain.

691

And, unfortunately,

it's still kind of that.

692

my dad doesn't ever ask how I'm doing.

693

my mom will weaponize a conversation

that, so I don't really take small

694

talk with her too, too serious.

695

Um, but yeah, smiling at your

neighbor, smiling at people you

696

walk by or, going to the park.

697

my biggest thing is sunsets.

698

If I'm going to a park and walking by

a, a family, I'm "Hey, how are you?"

699

And just keep it simple, and

sometimes I get a reply, sometimes

700

I don't, and that's okay, too.

701

I think we're in such a weird culture

of there's so many different ways

702

to communicate with each other,

but we don't talk to one another.

703

Right.

704

And I will always try to be the

difference maker in that on however I can.

705

I made friends with my neighbor, it's

just, you don't see that anymore.

706

You don't- No … live next to people who

their name, their story or anything that.

707

And guy across the street, him

and I are very good friends and

708

went to our first wrestling event

together a couple months ago.

709

it's, smiling at each other and, making

friends or just making, acquaintances.

710

Yep.

711

And you said, just smiling.

712

Just, you never know.

713

And I, being a teacher, I really

took that to heart when I, I

714

truly believe people are born

beautiful, divine, joyous creatures.

715

If you have a first grader sleeping on the

desk or not making eye con- contact, it's

716

not because they don't wanna be friendly

or they don't wanna pay attention,

717

it's because their circumstances

have set them up so they can't.

718

Yeah.

719

So I always just say give

people the benefit of the doubt.

720

If someone…

721

It, it takes a lot more energy

and a lot more muscles to

722

frown than it does to smile.

723

Absolutely.

724

So if somebody has a frown on

their face, there's a reason.

725

They didn't wake up in the- And- I,

it's you said your mom was an addict.

726

I don't know how you have c- come

around that, if you went through ACA,

727

I don't know your process with that.

728

But my whole life changed when I

realized that everything my mother

729

did was because of her trauma.

730

Yeah.

731

Yeah.

732

Wasn't because- 100% … she

wanted to hurt me.

733

It's because she was so traumatized,

she didn't know any better.

734

Yeah.

735

You, you said your, your dad sent

you, or your parents sent you

736

away when you were self-harming.

737

My mother was bulimic, and her

dad sent her to boarding school in

738

England for four years and said,

"Come back when you're better."

739

Well, she was an alcoholic from the

time she was 14, and a drug addict.

740

Right.

741

sh- it wasn't her.

742

I mean, it was her, and yes,

when I was a child, I was mad.

743

When I tell you mad, I was pissed off.

744

Yeah.

745

But then it's kinda hmm,

when you look at it that.

746

So I kinda give everybody

that benefit of the doubt.

747

Yeah.

748

it doesn't make the hurt any less.

749

Right.

750

And so you still have to

come to terms with that.

751

But the person on the street,

they're not out to hurt people.

752

They- Right … they're just not.

753

They're just having a shitty day

because of what life fed them, so.

754

Right.

755

And, one of, one of the very

first people in my life who I'm

756

really good friends with now was

actually my first grade teacher.

757

Um, her and I are very close friends,

and she was one of the first people

758

to see what I was going through,

'cause, I said, my parents got

759

divorced very young, and, she noticed

my parents were coming separate on,

760

the parent-teacher conferences, and

she wanted to make sure I was okay.

761

And I love her to death, and I, I went

to her mother's funeral, and everybody

762

that I met there was so surprised that

her student came to her mother's funeral.

763

Um, and, and I always try to tell her,

I'm "You, you saved that little kid's

764

life whether you realize it or not."

765

And I, I think teachers are some of

the greatest human beings on this

766

planet simply for the fact of I don't

think they're appreciated enough.

767

I really don't.

768

And whether that's from a financial

point or from a- The type of human

769

beings it, it takes to be a teacher is

so special because there are so many

770

kids that are going through such a

hard time that sometimes the teacher

771

just doesn't know how to properly deal

with, especially in today's society.

772

Right.

773

No, I agree.

774

I think, I think all teachers should

be trauma informed as far as how to

775

teach emotional intelligence and how

to help kids just, if nothing else,

776

get some of that energy, that negative

energy out of their systems Yeah.

777

Yeah … in a po- in a positive way.

778

Right.

779

in a, in a productive, healthy manner

versus just penting everything up.

780

Because I think that is the- Mm-hmm

… that is the root cause of all evils is

781

that pent up, unprocessed bad emotions.

782

Right.

783

Energy is, or emotion is energy in motion.

784

You gotta get it out.

785

Right.

786

So well this has been super fun, Chris.

787

I could literally talk to you all

day, but if people wanna reach out

788

to you and talk to you and, and join

your group, where's the best place?

789

All of your links will be in the

show notes, but where's the best

790

place for them to reach you?

791

so the best place to contact me, I

usually respond right away, is, my email.

792

It's [email protected]

793

or you can message me on

Instagram, mentalhealth,

794

movementpod, on Instagram as well.

795

Okay.

796

And all of those will be in the

show notes, all the links, guys.

797

So if you're driving, if you're

listening, if you don't have time to

798

write it down, do not worry about it.

799

Tammy got you.

800

And before you leave though,

you are not off the hook.

801

First of all, thank you so much for coming

and sharing your story, and- Of course

802

love to have you back on maybe in

another six months or a year and

803

let's- Yeah … kinda do a follow-up.

804

Um- If you had to leave the listeners

with one piece of advice, words of

805

wisdom, or something kind of tangible,

your final message to them, positive

806

message, what would it be today?

807

The greatest advice that I have ever

been given, I will share it to everybody

808

always, is be gentle with yourself.

809

we are our own bittest- biggest critic.

810

We are, our own biggest

enemy at, at times, too.

811

And I know it's a, a war inside

of our heads, a lot of the days

812

duri- during the week, but all

we have to do is, give ourselves

813

grace and be gentle with ourselves.

814

Perfect.

815

Perfectly and well said,

because it is true.

816

We are our own worst critic.

817

Yeah.

818

So thank you very much, everybody, and

we will hopefully have you come back on.

819

And also, if, if you're out there

listening, remember, don't be your…

820

Treat yourself your own best friend.

821

When a thought pops into your mind

and you wouldn't react the way

822

you do to your own best friend,

don't react to yourself that way.

823

You literally…

824

The relationship you have with yourself

is the longest standing one you will

825

have with anybody, so make it a good one.

826

Make it a good one.

827

Love yourself.

828

You deserve it.

829

You so, so deserve it.

830

So you all have a blessed

day, and we will see you back.

831

Bye.