Feeling ignored is one of the most quietly painful experiences a person can have -- whether it's happening at work, in relationships, or when you're putting yourself out there online and hearing nothing back.

In this episode John is joined by coaching colleague James for an honest, personal conversation about what it actually feels like to be ignored, why it cuts so deep, and what you can do about it.

This isn't a theoretical discussion. Both John and James share real stories from their own lives -- including professional setbacks, childhood experiences of not fitting in, and the particular sting of being overlooked in rooms where you know you have something valuable to contribute.

What you'll learn in this episode

Why feeling ignored hurts as much as it does and what's actually happening psychologically, the role childhood experiences play in how we respond to being overlooked as adults, how gender affects the experience of not being heard in professional settings, practical strategies for setting boundaries when you're consistently ignored, why persistence matters and how to reframe rejection without dismissing it, how to choose the right platforms and rooms where your voice is more likely to land, and why embracing imperfection is essential to showing up and being heard.

About this episode

This conversation was recorded with John's coaching colleague James, who brings both personal experience and professional insight to the topic. It's one of the more candid and human conversations on the show -- and one that consistently resonates with listeners who feel like they're shouting into a void.

If this episode resonated with you

Speakers who get booked consistently aren't always the loudest in the room. They've learned how to make their presence felt in the right way, in the right room.

Connect with John:

• Find out more about the Known, Booked & Paid Blueprint
• Subscribe to the Serious About Speaking newsletter on LinkedIn
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Discover the bottlenecks in your speaking business with the Applause Vs Invoice Quiz

For speaking/podcast enquiries or to connect with me directly, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel

If you know a speaker who would enjoy this show, let them know. Thanks for listening.

Related episodes: How to Connect With Anyone, Anywhere, Anytime with Simon Lancaster

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction: Feeling Ignored

00:34 Personal Stories and Boundaries

01:59 The Pain of Being Ignored

03:54 Coping Mechanisms and Self-Reflection

06:22 Childhood Experiences and Fitting In

11:38 Professional Challenges and Gender Differences

16:04 Taking Action and Setting Boundaries

20:40 Online Presence and Open Mic Experiences

24:08 Overcoming Failure in Comedy

24:50 The Importance of Persistence

26:19 Choosing the Right Platform

30:19 Seeking Help and Building Networks

35:31 Embracing Imperfection

37:46 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Mentioned in this episode:

Last Call For Founding KBPB Mebers

There's one last spot in the founding membership of The Known, Booked & Paid Blueprint. This is the only time you can get the program at 50% off. After that, it goes to the full program price, which is still great value, but it's not half-price value. Find out if it's the right fit for you at presentinfluence.com/kbpb

What do you do when you feel ignored?

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It could be at work, online

or even by your own friends.

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In this episode, my good coaching

friend James and I get together

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and get real about the moments when

it feels like no one's listening.

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We are gonna swap some stories from our

own lives and explore why being ignored

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cut so deep, and share some strategies

that helped us to turn that around.

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From setting boundaries with

friends to persistence on stage.

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If you've ever wondered how to stop

shrinking back and start being heard,

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you're going to want to stay with

us right the way through this one.

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Welcome into the virtual studio, James.

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this all came about from. We both

coach each other and, Sometimes I

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think we both sort of come into onto

the calls sometimes wondering what

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we're gonna talk about, but it usually

ends up being something interesting.

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Right.

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James Kilgarriff: you shared

the other day about reaching out

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to old contacts or something.

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You wanna share more about that and

this p piece about being ignored?

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John: Well, yeah, one of the

things that sort of led into that

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conversation was I'd been having

a conversation with another friend

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about healthy boundaries with friends.

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Friends who don't really act like friends.

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And I kind of felt like people who

I had good relationship with and

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considered to be friends weren't still

showing up as friends in my life.

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Yeah.

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doing things that.

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Generally in a friendship you think that's

not really on, and just an example of

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that would be people who 'cause I live

in Spain, like you do, people who are

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coming and staying from the UK or wherever

nearby to where I was living and not even

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letting me know they were here or I'm

not trying to arrange any kind of meetup.

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How that, I don't know.

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There's something about it to me, I

can't imagine, I can't really imagine

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being away for a week or two weeks,

staying near to where I know one of my

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friends is and not even saying, Hey,

do you wanna come and meet up or do

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something together whilst we're here?

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Grab lunch, coffee, whatever.

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And uh, and so this sort thing, when

me think, are we really friends?

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Like if you don't, if you don't

act like a friend, are you?

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So there were times, there are

times definitely where I've, where

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I was feeling ignored by people

who were supposed to be friends.

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I'm thinking, well, okay, I,

I have to draw a line somewhat

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with this and say, you know what?

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I don't think we are friends if

you're not treating me like a friend.

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And but it led to us talking about

how often we feel ignored in general.

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I was talking about having been looking

for some opportunities and, and how

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now even just like it's only being

over 50, he can end up feeling very

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James Kilgarriff: ignored

enough LinkedIn jobs.

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I know a friend of mine's a consultant,

really clever guy in his fifties.

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He can't get a job because he is,

he's overqualified, but really

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is a lot of it's down to age.

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John: Yeah.

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And it sucks.

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The, the feeling is the

feeling is just so horrible.

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it is that sort of Saturday night and

you're on your own and you, you want

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someone to talk to and you call your

friends and nobody's, nobody's around.

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It is that, it is that kind of feeling

is, it's, it's, it's a bit low and,

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well, since I've seen is I, it's some

of the opportunities I've been, I'm just

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gonna stop doing it because I feel worse

doing it than I would feel not doing it.

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And that put my energy and focus

into other things, because it's

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not really what I want anyway.

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it's very easy to, to feel ignored.

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Yeah.

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I, I work with a lot of people a lot

of the time who have that feeling,

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whether it's in their professional

environments or whether it's, whether

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it's in, in other areas of their life,

that they just feel that they're not

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being heard, they're being, being

ignored, passed over or whatever.

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Did, is this something you,

you come across a lot as well?

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James Kilgarriff: It happens

in me, it happens in people.

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mean, I coach people in big companies

and team leaders and stuff like

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that, and they, you know, they can

go through similar insecure kind.

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I call it insecure thinking,

being ignored, but I know

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it's got a feeling to it.

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and then what happens when you, you start.

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Allowing that habitual

thinking to continue.

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Well, for me, when I feel ignored, I

want us, we talked about this then.

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Then I wanna be safe for my own thing.

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I don't want to go out.

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If I feel ignored, then I

think, well, what's the point?

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Then I kind of like I contract.

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Yeah.

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Which is what we tend to do.

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We kind of go into this safe.

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Space, which I think comes from

the early years when you grow up.

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This is the safe way of doing it.

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Well, you, you are sorry I use that body

language, but that's how, how I feel

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John: you, you asked me the other

day about, where what, what the

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benefits were of being ignored.

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Like where, what's the good side of that?

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Yeah.

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which was a, an interesting question

that got me thinking like, well, yeah,

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there is, there is a good side of

that because I do like kind of being

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left alone and I do, and I do like.

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It's just that feeling of safety.

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The unknown is a little scary sometimes.

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Yeah.

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And so you have that feeling of

safety where things stay the same,

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but homeostasis or keeping things

the same generally isn't good.

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It might feel safe on some level because

it's what you know, but it's, it's

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really not a good or healthy thing.

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But I think there are possibly are

part, at least parts of me that

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don't hate being ignored that maybe

even encourage it to some degree.

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So there may be a little bit of.

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Internal conflict there as well.

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James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

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So maybe there's a part of us that is

cool about being ignored, but then the

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other one that maybe the older, the

younger parts of oneself was ignored.

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I have parents ignored or whatever.

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Then you feel safe.

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But there's another part of you that

says, okay, let's try, let's try this.

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Let's go out here, let's try that.

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Let's take a bit of a risk.

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how do you reconcile?

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I mean, it's just called

parts in the brain for people.

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I know we coach and we do

parts, sometimes called parts

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integration, but imagine there's

just different parts of your brain.

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One's going like that, and the

other one says, let's go out.

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How do you bridge them?

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How do you create a bridge

or how do you reconcile that?

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John: You don't always.

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sometimes it just comes down

to, which parts of use strongest

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at the, in that moment, right?

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James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So the one that's contracted

down is what it, what it is.

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There's nothing wrong with it.

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It's just a ha habitual way of living.

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I don't think one should

judge them and we do.

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I can judge myself for being

weak and ignored and poor me,

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and then, and if I start judging,

that just adds to the story.

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Yeah.

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So I need to drop that judgment.

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John: You got, you got me thinking

about when, when I was younger as well,

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because you asked me something about

whether this had come up in the past.

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And certainly I, I was one of

those kids, I think we both agreed

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with, basically we felt this.

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I've never really felt like I quite

fitted in with everyone else and

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was, was a little bit different.

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You know, I had, I had friends, but

I wasn't one of the popular kids.

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De definitely wasn't that.

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you know, I wasn't super talented.

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I wasn't super popular or anything like

that, and never really quite fitted in.

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And that, that sort of showed

up as a theme again and again.

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I think, never, never quite fitted

into the mainstream of things.

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And as a kid that's not.

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Doesn't feel good because the things

you want, especially when you're in your

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teens, you want to fit in, you want to

be popular, you want to be attractive

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to people and all that sort of thing.

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and so not fitting into the mainstream

feels like the worst thing possible when

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you're a teenager, but the older I've got,

the more I realize how much of an asset

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it is not fitting into the mainstream.

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Like there are the ways of thinking

and approach to things and experiences

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I've had that would never have happened

if I had more fitted in like a jigsaw

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piece into the main part of the puzzle.

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James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

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and then we think I'm not fitting

in, when I was at school, something

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didn't fit in or when I, when I

was in sales some years ago into.

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Sales teams, they were all very kind

of attempt loads of pint, severe,

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and I, I wasn't ready out where I

felt out of it, so I thought there

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must be something wrong with me.

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John: Right?

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James Kilgarriff: That's my mindset.

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There must be something wrong with me.

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There's nothing wrong with me.

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It's just I act the way.

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There are millions and millions of people

out there who don't feel part of something

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and that's okay, but what's good about

not feeling part of that sometimes?

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Well.

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I tend to sort of go deeper

into things and learn things.

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And I wouldn't be a coach

had I not had this part.

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it goes into these deeper aspects

of what is life all about?

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What am I about?

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What motivates me, and stuff like that.

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Yeah.

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So there's a benefit to it and

there's no, it goes from I thought

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there was something wrong with me.

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Well, wow, this is a gift.

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Am I gonna look at the gift or

am I gonna look at the curse?

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John: Definitely there's always

the right frame if the right

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frame to take with something is

to look at the opportunity always.

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And I, I grew up, Don't traveling

to living in D different places

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or all over the place, having to

make new friends every time you

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moved and all that kind of stuff.

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It was interesting.

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I don't, I don't have regrets about that.

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I don't, I'm not one of those people

that has friends for when I was like

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four years old or anything like that

because we moved around too much and

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ages where I just would never have

kept in touch with people anyway.

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But I'm okay.

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I'm okay with it because it also

left me more of a sort of global

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citizen, if you're like,

I can be home anywhere.

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Anywhere can be home.

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so I don't feel like one

place is home for me.

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Which, which I think is, is a positive.

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Well, the reason I'm bringing it up

is because, one of the things that

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I saw with my dad lot, all those

work had us traveling around a lot.

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He had risen up through the ranks

of the business that he was in,

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and I found out more as

I got older, of course.

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But he also kept getting.

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Passed over for a promotion or people who

he ended up training were getting promoted

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above him because they were like, I'm

graduate programs and stuff like this.

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And my dad didn't have all of that.

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And and he just kind of went with it

and accepted it as that's how it is.

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And I guess if I'm like, okay,

that, that's up to him to do that.

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If that's what, if that's how he

wants to handle that situation.

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But I've made a decision

that I, I can't be like that.

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I'm not gonna be ignored.

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I'm not gonna be, if I get passed

over, I'm gonna say something

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because somebody's, if I am being

ignored, you are gonna know about it.

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And, and so that is something that I

feel that was a positive lesson for

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me to take away from that saying, you

know, I could do the same thing as my

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dad and just hope that people notice

me and treat me well, or I speak

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up and say something, do something,

you know, let my voice be heard.

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I, I made that choice to do that.

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So, you know, this, this is

very much a situational thing.

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I'm not, not so much talking about

social kind of things, but, there

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are, there are many times and places

in life where if we just accept that,

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that we are being ignored, we may be

even have come to start thinking that

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we should be, that we deserve to be.

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I knew

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James Kilgarriff: I should be

because my dad was ignored or

220

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my mom was ignored or whatever.

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My brother was ignored.

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John: I don't have the right background,

I don't have the right popularity.

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I don't fit in with the

right groups of people.

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I'm not mainstream or whatever else.

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It's like, well, maybe those

are valid reasons to be ignored.

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So you might actually end up buying

into, and I think I, I did to a great

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degree for a long time, buy into

the story of why probably should.

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James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

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It's a thought I should be

ignored, is a, it's a story, it's a

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thought, and maybe it's not yours.

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Maybe it's not your thought.

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Maybe you got it from somebody

else, but you've taken on, you've

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inherited a thought from someone else.

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That sometimes a lot of our thoughts

in our own, but we, we think they're

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on and we start believing in them.

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John: Because I work with a lot of

speakers and communicators particularly,

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it does show up regularly as an issue.

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And I would say, I don't think this

is a tool sexist to say, it is much

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more common for women to feel ignored,

especially in workplaces, in speaking

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situations, in professional environments.

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Yeah.

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Is much more common and to feel that

their voices aren't really being heard

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or they aren't really being recognized

in any sort of significant way.

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Not to say it doesn't happen to men

as well, but I hear it much more from

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female clients than from their A clients.

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James Kilgarriff: Oh, what an opportunity

for a woman who's been feeling ignored

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and notice a mother was being ignored

to stand up and say, get a message out.

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No, that's it.

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And the buck stops here.

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I'm not gonna.

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Allow this story to play out my

mind for the rest of my life.

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Why don't I've got something to say

to the world about whatever, and go

253

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say it and speak it and present it.

254

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You know, you teach people to present.

255

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John: the, some of the issues start to

become, well, how do you present that?

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Because I think one of the, one of

the challenges can be like, if this is

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something you are allowed to keep going

and going it frustrates you and you

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bottle, bottle up all the frustration

and the pain around that, there's a

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good chance that at some point it's

just the, the lids gonna blow you will.

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Have a response to some situation that

you won't be happy with, and could

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actually cause some problems for you.

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So you don't really want to get

to that situation where you have

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to blow your lid just to be heard.

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And it might actually be some

unsuspecting soul just says the

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wrong thing at the right time.

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But that whole stole experiences

suddenly, suddenly comes together

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and, you know, the champagne court

pops and it sprays everywhere.

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So, alright.

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It's, it's important to figure out how

you're going to do this in the right way.

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Like make the decision in advance.

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I refuse to be ignored, so how am I

gonna make myself heard without much my,

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James Kilgarriff: it's an

assertive way, Ryan say, right.

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I want people to hear me now, so everyone.

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Yeah.

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Rather than being against

something before something.

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If that makes sense.

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But I mean, how, how do you help

people go through the, the step to be

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kind of like assertive and firm and

calm who feel ignored or feel left

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out or feel in a certain injustice?

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John: This is a very, a very situational

thing, but very often one of the type

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places where this comes up the most is, is

people in meetings, they find in meetings

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with, whether it's with people who they

actually work with or, or in general,

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like, professional meetings that their

voice may not be recognized or heard.

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So I think it is a little bit of a,

well, yeah, a little bit of persistence

285

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here and listen and be gentle about

this to a, to a degree, but the gentle

286

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but firm side of things of saying,

well, you can say you, you can't really

287

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say you're not listening to me because

you're gonna shut down conversation.

288

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You're gonna, put barriers up there.

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So it's better to say something

like, I'm not feeling heard.

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Right now, so I'm wondering if I

can put this in another way or, or

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expressive and, and we can have a

conversation about what's really

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being said here so that I can make

sure that I am actually being heard.

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Because there are situations where you

may want to do that outside of a, of a

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meeting where you say someone, you, I, I

got some of the behavior I saw in that.

295

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didn't I, I didn't feel

comfortable with it.

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I'm not saying you necessarily

did anything wrong, it just

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felt like, you know what?

298

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You didn't pay attention to me or to

anything that I was saying, or you went,

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I didn't feel like you were taking me

seriously, which may not be the case,

300

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but is that something we can talk about?

301

00:15:24,685 --> 00:15:27,805

This is very diplomatic ways

of approaching these kinds

302

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of situations, I think, and

303

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James Kilgarriff: yeah,

304

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John: I think it is better in

professional situations to aim

305

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for diplomacy unless someone is

being outright horrible or real.

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Yeah.

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In which case, I feel like, if you,

if you can feel strong enough to, and

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you, and it's not gonna get you sacked,

although it might be circumstances,

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but you're okay with that to just

say, this is, I'm, I'm not happy

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being spoken to like this, or, yeah.

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James Kilgarriff: I've got an issue

sometimes with anger, but there's,

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you can use anger in a very positive

way where you say, you know what?

313

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Enough is enough.

314

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I'm done with not being heard.

315

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I'm done with feeling ignored.

316

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I'm just done with it.

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You draw a line in the sand and you

say, right from now on, I'm gonna

318

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start moving in a new direction.

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John: I think you do have, you do have

to make the decision for yourself.

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Yeah.

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I, I certainly felt like I did.

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Right.

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it, it had, it was definitely a decision

point for me of saying, you know what?

324

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I'm not prepared to go through my

life being ignored or have these

325

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situations where I'm feeling left out.

326

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I have to have those

boundaries around that.

327

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I haven't always enforced them as

strongly as I might want to, but

328

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they are there, and I do generally

at some point, you know, even the.

329

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Even when there have been maybe exceptions

to the rule that I haven't enforced

330

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my own boundaries as much as I should

have, at some point I usually end up

331

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doing it and wishing I'd done it sooner.

332

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So I think it is generally better to

have, have that decision in advance

333

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because it, our brains, brains just

aren't really, they don't function in

334

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a way that we can just keep making the

decisions or do everything spontaneously.

335

00:17:04,125 --> 00:17:08,385

It's far easier to have these

heuristics, these mental shortcuts,

336

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which are already decided in advance.

337

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and, and I find this with, something

as simple as going and working

338

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out every day, which, which I do.

339

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but I never used to, but I do because

I don't, I don't anymore have that

340

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argument or discussion in my head in

the morning and am I gonna do this?

341

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It's already decided

that the alarm goes off.

342

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I get up and I go out to the gym.

343

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So the decision is already made, and

it's a heuristic, it's a mental shortcut.

344

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My, my kit's ready to go.

345

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I don't give myself any reasons to

allow that discussion around it in my

346

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head of the now, the part of me that

would rather sleep in or against the

347

00:17:44,395 --> 00:17:47,395

part of me that says, you're gonna

feel better for doing this afterwards.

348

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And the more consistently I've

done that, that the easier it, it

349

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has become anything where we can

give ourselves these shortcuts.

350

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Like, I wonder in this kind of situation,

this is how I show up, or this is

351

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my boundary, this is my decision.

352

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It makes it easier to know exactly

how you should be showing up and

353

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responding in those situations.

354

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James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

355

00:18:08,005 --> 00:18:11,515

I like what you said about the making the

decision to go to the gym every morning.

356

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It's easy to allow your

moods to take you out.

357

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John: Yeah, yeah.

358

00:18:16,605 --> 00:18:19,545

James Kilgarriff: if you follow your

mood, it's just gonna sabotage you.

359

00:18:19,545 --> 00:18:25,095

And I know mood are strong, but whether

I'm feeling in a mood or not, I decided

360

00:18:25,095 --> 00:18:27,105

that you, you also set the conditions up.

361

00:18:27,105 --> 00:18:28,815

You've got your gym bag

ready in the morning.

362

00:18:29,055 --> 00:18:30,555

You have to go looking for your stuff.

363

00:18:31,665 --> 00:18:34,455

So you're sending conditions

up to go to the gym or whatever

364

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it is that you wanna do.

365

00:18:36,075 --> 00:18:36,285

Yeah.

366

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That's so important.

367

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John: But you know, one of the, one of the

big reasons in life why people don't take

368

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action is because they don't feel like it.

369

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James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

370

00:18:44,595 --> 00:18:48,015

John: So that's exactly what you're

talking about here of like your mood

371

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is like, well yeah, the chances are you

aren't gonna feel like it and if your

372

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mood is di dictating your action, then

you are not gonna have a lot to show for

373

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that other than probably some frustration.

374

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Well, you end up

375

00:19:00,225 --> 00:19:01,035

James Kilgarriff: becoming your mood.

376

00:19:01,035 --> 00:19:03,975

I know I woke up this morning in a

mood, shall I do exercise or not?

377

00:19:03,975 --> 00:19:09,170

I thought, Nope, I drew a line that

I'm, I'm gonna do, do my exercise.

378

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I went for a walk as well and I

wasn't in, in the greatest of moods,

379

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but I'm not gonna do it from my

mood, but I'm aware of the mood.

380

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It's a bit like getting on a,

a bus with a lone, imagine the

381

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lone mood bus coming along.

382

00:19:22,940 --> 00:19:24,320

Do I have to get on that bus?

383

00:19:25,070 --> 00:19:29,930

automatically We got on the lone mood

bus, but no, the load move bus is here.

384

00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:31,850

But you're saying I'm

not gonna go on that bus.

385

00:19:32,270 --> 00:19:33,200

I'm gonna go to the gym.

386

00:19:34,730 --> 00:19:36,110

But you, that needs awareness, doesn't it?

387

00:19:37,325 --> 00:19:38,075

John: It does.

388

00:19:38,135 --> 00:19:40,715

It does mean you have to

think about things a lot.

389

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And this is one of the things that came

up in our conversation about how I feel

390

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like you can always, you can always really

tell when somebody has done some work on

391

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themselves, like some kind of reflection

or personal development because they have

392

00:19:53,895 --> 00:19:58,215

usually that bit more self-awareness than

most people do because a lot of people

393

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don't really stop to reflect on themselves

or the lives or think about who they

394

00:20:02,205 --> 00:20:05,415

are or how they want to be showing up

or the sort of results they want to see.

395

00:20:05,895 --> 00:20:11,145

And so taking that time out is, is not

always easy in busy, in a busy life, but

396

00:20:11,145 --> 00:20:13,125

without it, everything's just gonna keep

397

00:20:13,545 --> 00:20:16,890

carrying on the hustle and buser of the

world will, will keep carrying you through

398

00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:21,330

from cradle to grave if you let it without

taking that step back and saying, that

399

00:20:21,420 --> 00:20:23,970

this isn't how I want to be continuing.

400

00:20:24,210 --> 00:20:24,420

James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

401

00:20:24,450 --> 00:20:26,460

So reflection time is important.

402

00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,220

Just reflect, what's, what's,

working in my life, what isn't.

403

00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:31,870

John: Yeah, exactly.

404

00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:32,530

That kind of.

405

00:20:33,370 --> 00:20:37,440

So, we were talking about how I

was moved away from that, that sort

406

00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,960

of being ignored kind of thing.

407

00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:44,260

I think one of the places where I've

probably felt it the most has been,

408

00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:48,600

online because it is very easy to

feel like you're sort of shouting

409

00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,080

into the void online, you know,

posting YouTube videos or social

410

00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,550

media content all over the place.

411

00:20:53,610 --> 00:20:55,380

It's very easy to be ignored.

412

00:20:56,655 --> 00:21:02,655

But it's also very easy to undervalue the

people who do view you or do follow you

413

00:21:02,740 --> 00:21:05,390

and, and do pay attention to what you do.

414

00:21:05,390 --> 00:21:08,020

And, and I was thinking about this

as I was doing, I was doing open mic,

415

00:21:08,020 --> 00:21:12,400

standup comedy last night, and I was

thinking about this last night and this

416

00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,720

morning I, I tend to wine things over

in my head anyway around this stuff.

417

00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,975

But, that open mics are.

418

00:21:19,675 --> 00:21:25,795

Open mic nights are an opportunity to

test out material or for new comics,

419

00:21:25,885 --> 00:21:30,035

which is kind of what I am really,

my third, my third time I think doing

420

00:21:30,035 --> 00:21:35,415

open mic, for new comics to get some

experience and try to develop, you know,

421

00:21:35,415 --> 00:21:39,285

there's, there's an expectation and I

even finding myself, having it, having

422

00:21:39,285 --> 00:21:44,655

this expectation of myself last night

of I should already be at the standard

423

00:21:44,655 --> 00:21:48,165

of a professional comedian and I'm not.

424

00:21:48,210 --> 00:21:54,420

And it's gonna, it's gonna take time if

I want to get to that kind of standard.

425

00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,380

But is that really, now, I dunno

if that's really the goal anyway,

426

00:21:58,410 --> 00:22:02,400

but the expectation is kind of

there and, and I think sometimes

427

00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,320

even with open mic audiences.

428

00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:08,985

That was, we were chatting about Iang

with some of the other comedians about

429

00:22:09,585 --> 00:22:13,035

open mic nights, and one guy was saying

he did this open mic in New York.

430

00:22:13,365 --> 00:22:16,725

I said, yeah, the audience is, there

are, are a little different because

431

00:22:17,115 --> 00:22:21,165

generally they're okay, but some of them

will come in hoping that some famous

432

00:22:21,165 --> 00:22:25,065

comedian will come in and test out

their material and they wanna see that.

433

00:22:25,305 --> 00:22:30,495

So they don't have a lot of tolerance

for the, for the new people who are just

434

00:22:30,510 --> 00:22:33,990

testing stuff out, getting some

experience, and aren't at that

435

00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:36,510

polished professional level yet either.

436

00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,870

And, and so to having that

expectation of yourself, of

437

00:22:39,870 --> 00:22:42,240

well, you should already be here.

438

00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,970

I should already be every joke

should be landing, every, every,

439

00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:47,010

everything should be a success.

440

00:22:47,010 --> 00:22:49,950

You know, I, I was watching the

playback of, I recorded the whole thing.

441

00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:51,880

I was watching a playback and

he's oh, there were a couple

442

00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,400

of groans for s which is okay.

443

00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,400

There was responses to everything,

but it wasn't all laughs.

444

00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:57,460

Yeah.

445

00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,580

But yeah, there were,

there were laughs as well.

446

00:23:00,910 --> 00:23:03,970

And so I think, well, yeah, there

were, people weren't like falling

447

00:23:03,970 --> 00:23:08,020

over hysterical laughter like they

had to do with professional comics,

448

00:23:08,020 --> 00:23:11,770

but I'm being hard on myself.

449

00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:12,850

I got laughs.

450

00:23:13,420 --> 00:23:14,770

I got up and did this.

451

00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:15,760

James Kilgarriff: Yeah, you did it.

452

00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,380

You stood up, you took action.

453

00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:20,920

Risk is, I could have been

ignored, criticized, whatever,

454

00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,400

but you know, we worked with

Harker who was a platform speaker.

455

00:23:24,550 --> 00:23:24,670

I know.

456

00:23:24,670 --> 00:23:25,570

He is retired now.

457

00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,060

Person, development

speaker, he had a quote.

458

00:23:28,060 --> 00:23:30,010

Every master was once a disaster.

459

00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:30,220

Yeah.

460

00:23:30,460 --> 00:23:33,820

You don't just become master, a

master at something in 10 minutes.

461

00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:34,690

No.

462

00:23:34,690 --> 00:23:39,700

And you might get ignored for the first

coup couple of performances, but you gotta

463

00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:41,830

keep persisting on whatever you wanna do.

464

00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:42,670

Alright.

465

00:23:42,670 --> 00:23:44,080

If they ignore me, they ignore me.

466

00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:47,410

But if you go back, if you go to your

old pro and say, oh, they ignored me.

467

00:23:47,410 --> 00:23:51,520

I better shut down and stay

safe and not go out anymore.

468

00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:52,030

Well that.

469

00:23:53,740 --> 00:23:54,825

John: This is exactly it.

470

00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,140

This is exactly it.

471

00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,950

Like the, the first guy who was

up last night, and he wasn't

472

00:23:59,950 --> 00:24:02,020

the only one that this happened

to, but the first guy was up.

473

00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,040

He completely bombed.

474

00:24:03,620 --> 00:24:04,880

his whole act bombed.

475

00:24:04,940 --> 00:24:08,690

There's only like myself, it was

only his third time doing open mic.

476

00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:12,080

So, it's like, again, probably being

really hard on himself about it.

477

00:24:12,110 --> 00:24:15,090

But I chatted with him

afterwards and said, look, we

478

00:24:15,090 --> 00:24:16,500

say, oh yeah, I kind of bombed.

479

00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:17,790

I'm not gonna lie.

480

00:24:17,790 --> 00:24:19,290

Yeah, he pretty much did.

481

00:24:20,505 --> 00:24:21,930

There's, there's no doubt about it.

482

00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,980

No laughs And the audience were, weren't

quite buying into the acts and stuff.

483

00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:27,990

Something didn't quite land.

484

00:24:28,140 --> 00:24:31,810

So, but like everything doesn't

mean that the jokes can't work.

485

00:24:32,170 --> 00:24:34,060

They, it means they may need work.

486

00:24:34,270 --> 00:24:36,130

Your delivery may need work.

487

00:24:36,790 --> 00:24:38,680

You have to play with this

stuff, tinker with it.

488

00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,140

This is what professionals do anyway.

489

00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:44,920

I said, we, you will be back

for another open mic night,

490

00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:45,310

right.

491

00:24:45,310 --> 00:24:46,060

It hasn't put you off.

492

00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:47,050

He, oh, no, no, I'll be back.

493

00:24:47,050 --> 00:24:47,440

I'll be back.

494

00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,300

And it's like, that's

exactly the attitude of

495

00:24:49,540 --> 00:24:50,170

James Kilgarriff: Exactly.

496

00:24:50,260 --> 00:24:54,820

John: You're not gonna get better at stuff

unless you stick with it and go through,

497

00:24:54,820 --> 00:24:56,680

I think Seth Godin calls it the dip.

498

00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,370

Such a good book.

499

00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:57,670

The Dip.

500

00:24:57,730 --> 00:24:58,090

Yeah.

501

00:24:58,270 --> 00:25:01,000

We haven't read it, but, but we

have to go through the dip and.

502

00:25:03,490 --> 00:25:05,140

We have to suck at stuff for a while.

503

00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:06,730

Or have the failures.

504

00:25:07,030 --> 00:25:07,330

Yeah.

505

00:25:07,330 --> 00:25:09,820

And have the times where

we bomb to get it there.

506

00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:12,580

And if we're being ignored, like you

said, big ignored, we have to keep

507

00:25:12,580 --> 00:25:17,170

coming back and have some persistence

with it and make that decision of it's

508

00:25:17,170 --> 00:25:20,575

not failure, it's just, or we have to

keep failure that way to the success.

509

00:25:20,575 --> 00:25:20,815

It's.

510

00:25:21,860 --> 00:25:24,590

James Kilgarriff: As I say in

Silicon Valley, fell forward fast.

511

00:25:24,590 --> 00:25:29,180

And like anything else, we can try out

a new idea, a new speech, a new message.

512

00:25:29,180 --> 00:25:31,820

If you're a platform speaker,

don't expect to get it right.

513

00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:32,510

First time.

514

00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:36,010

It might take four, five, six,

they call it, success by iteration.

515

00:25:36,010 --> 00:25:38,590

You keep trying this, trying

that, trying this, trying that.

516

00:25:38,590 --> 00:25:39,220

It's gonna fail.

517

00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:40,300

People are not laughing.

518

00:25:41,650 --> 00:25:42,520

You just keep going.

519

00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,340

And if you give up,

then okay, you give up.

520

00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:48,140

But maybe after 50 times it

is still not working and maybe

521

00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:48,890

you need to look at that.

522

00:25:49,775 --> 00:25:50,915

John: I think ultra as well.

523

00:25:50,915 --> 00:25:54,935

We hold ourselves to the standards of

the people who are most successful, and

524

00:25:54,935 --> 00:25:57,395

that that's not always the best standard.

525

00:25:57,555 --> 00:26:01,245

you're comparing, you're comparing

your step one to someone else's

526

00:26:01,245 --> 00:26:05,915

step 20, and it's, it's an unfair

comparison on yourself because these

527

00:26:05,915 --> 00:26:07,355

people probably have been through.

528

00:26:08,615 --> 00:26:12,515

The processes of the failures of

sucking and stuff, they probably

529

00:26:12,515 --> 00:26:14,915

do have bad content out there.

530

00:26:14,915 --> 00:26:14,975

Yeah.

531

00:26:14,975 --> 00:26:15,605

But may.

532

00:26:15,635 --> 00:26:15,785

Okay.

533

00:26:15,785 --> 00:26:18,605

Maybe they've taken it down now

'cause they've got everything

534

00:26:18,605 --> 00:26:19,865

polished and whatever else.

535

00:26:19,865 --> 00:26:24,695

But, if you're feeling ignored online,

well, I think there's a few things

536

00:26:24,695 --> 00:26:28,535

that, certainly advice I followed

of narrowed down the platforms where

537

00:26:28,535 --> 00:26:31,175

you're trying to be, get attention.

538

00:26:31,175 --> 00:26:34,565

Like if you are, if you are

business focused, then focus

539

00:26:34,565 --> 00:26:35,795

may be more on LinkedIn.

540

00:26:36,650 --> 00:26:41,240

I focus a bit more on YouTube now because

I was feeling like my podcast is being

541

00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:46,700

ignored a lot on podcast channels and it's

very hard to get any traction and growth

542

00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:52,400

on audio podcast channels, but it's a lot

easier to get that on YouTube and have had

543

00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,130

a lot more, a lot more success with that.

544

00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:57,230

A lot more downloads,

a lot more attention.

545

00:26:57,470 --> 00:27:02,950

Is it at the level of people who are

successful in making tens of thousands

546

00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:05,440

on YouTube where no it is not.

547

00:27:05,470 --> 00:27:07,420

But am I gonna stick with it?

548

00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:08,350

Absolutely, I am.

549

00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:08,410

Yeah.

550

00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:13,390

But it's still frustrating that you feel

like, well, I'm not, I'm not at that

551

00:27:13,390 --> 00:27:17,920

level on, but you have to stay strategic

about it and stay on track with it.

552

00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,880

I'm like, yeah, and change

553

00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,740

James Kilgarriff: your approach

as you go along, right?

554

00:27:20,740 --> 00:27:22,060

You've only one thing to another.

555

00:27:23,710 --> 00:27:25,390

Well, yeah, how can I

see this differently?

556

00:27:25,390 --> 00:27:26,290

What else can I do?

557

00:27:26,290 --> 00:27:28,810

And it's just constantly

having an open mind.

558

00:27:28,810 --> 00:27:30,100

We're talk, growth mindset.

559

00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,840

Rather than the fixed one.

560

00:27:32,650 --> 00:27:33,010

John: Yeah.

561

00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:33,610

James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

562

00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:34,390

They're ignoring me.

563

00:27:34,390 --> 00:27:35,230

It's not working.

564

00:27:35,230 --> 00:27:36,010

I might as well give up.

565

00:27:36,100 --> 00:27:36,610

Okay.

566

00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,525

John: Again, that's a choice, and most

people would see that as a failure and a

567

00:27:41,525 --> 00:27:43,235

lot of people won't try again afterwards.

568

00:27:43,235 --> 00:27:44,915

They just say, all

right, well, I tried it.

569

00:27:44,975 --> 00:27:46,835

I hear there's a lot from clients, Jake.

570

00:27:46,915 --> 00:27:48,565

I tried it and it didn't work.

571

00:27:49,375 --> 00:27:49,765

Okay.

572

00:27:50,545 --> 00:27:51,205

Try it again.

573

00:27:51,265 --> 00:27:51,535

James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

574

00:27:51,625 --> 00:27:52,465

In a different way.

575

00:27:52,615 --> 00:27:53,155

Try.

576

00:27:53,335 --> 00:27:53,665

Yeah.

577

00:27:54,025 --> 00:27:55,525

It's a bit like standing in a room.

578

00:27:55,975 --> 00:27:58,405

If I keep standing on the right

side of the room, I'm gonna see

579

00:27:58,405 --> 00:28:03,215

the room from one perspective and I

think, well, that's how the room is.

580

00:28:03,275 --> 00:28:05,615

But maybe I need to move to

the left side of the room now.

581

00:28:05,615 --> 00:28:07,235

I'll see it from another perspective.

582

00:28:07,235 --> 00:28:08,445

Maybe I'll have more light coming in.

583

00:28:08,585 --> 00:28:08,645

Yeah.

584

00:28:10,145 --> 00:28:14,465

I'm just giving you an example of a room,

A metaphor of just changing positions,

585

00:28:14,945 --> 00:28:16,985

maybe changing perspectives in the brain.

586

00:28:18,020 --> 00:28:21,830

John: One of the things that I had to

ask myself and be honest about was what

587

00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:26,405

I had, I was not being prepared to do,

or what I hadn't been doing in order to

588

00:28:26,405 --> 00:28:30,515

be more visible and to be more noticed.

589

00:28:30,575 --> 00:28:34,505

And there's quite a lot, there's quite

a lot that I just either haven't done

590

00:28:34,565 --> 00:28:39,755

or maybe have been avoiding doing

that could be done to be more visible

591

00:28:39,755 --> 00:28:43,565

and this whole, so sometimes you

just find yourself hoping or waiting.

592

00:28:43,565 --> 00:28:44,495

That stuff will get.

593

00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,070

We'll get delivered to you if

you like the magical Amazon

594

00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:50,630

delivery of here's your success.

595

00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:52,100

And so here's your package.

596

00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:54,670

It's, just, just coming

on the truck right now.

597

00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:56,920

James Kilgarriff: So what would

you recommend to someone who

598

00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,780

is trying to get their message

out or be a presenter speaker.

599

00:29:01,780 --> 00:29:04,810

It could be a coach,

it could be an author.

600

00:29:04,810 --> 00:29:07,480

What would you, what would

your recommendations be?

601

00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,480

'cause you've talked about

experiencing being ignored and

602

00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,710

then there's safety issues.

603

00:29:11,710 --> 00:29:12,280

But tell me.

604

00:29:13,225 --> 00:29:15,835

John: I think there's certainly

a lot we could go to here, but

605

00:29:15,835 --> 00:29:17,095

I wanna try and keep it simple.

606

00:29:18,170 --> 00:29:24,170

some of the most essential things are, um,

to be clear on what you want to talk about

607

00:29:24,170 --> 00:29:25,970

and who you think you want to talk to.

608

00:29:26,570 --> 00:29:28,970

And it's okay if that

changes in the future.

609

00:29:28,970 --> 00:29:32,790

Goodness knows, I've pivoted on stuff

and mean its different areas because

610

00:29:32,790 --> 00:29:36,475

you will, you'll evolve, your content

will evolve your, your ability to vote.

611

00:29:36,715 --> 00:29:41,545

Evolve as well that also make the

decision that this is what you want to do.

612

00:29:41,665 --> 00:29:41,935

Hmm.

613

00:29:42,085 --> 00:29:47,515

And that the real goal is to have the

persistence and the iteration with it,

614

00:29:47,515 --> 00:29:53,155

and to get through as many failures as

possible and learn from them so that you

615

00:29:53,155 --> 00:29:57,915

can get to the successes because, you

know, do think it is better to put out.

616

00:29:58,305 --> 00:30:01,245

As good a content as you can

manage to put out without

617

00:30:01,245 --> 00:30:03,075

getting perfectionist about it.

618

00:30:04,410 --> 00:30:08,850

Rather than just to turn out masses

of content of social media posts.

619

00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:14,010

I think quality as best you can is mostly

gonna be quantity for the greater degree.

620

00:30:14,010 --> 00:30:18,060

But if you can get some balance

between them, you can get out

621

00:30:18,060 --> 00:30:19,480

there and you can get heard.

622

00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,330

But one of the biggest things that

slowed me down was not getting help.

623

00:30:23,290 --> 00:30:27,910

It's not, not reaching out to anyone who

could have helped me or advanced me, or

624

00:30:28,180 --> 00:30:32,530

not making the connections, building my

network, getting coaching, whatever it

625

00:30:32,530 --> 00:30:36,310

is, you know, there's so many things that

could have helped to progress things.

626

00:30:36,370 --> 00:30:38,440

You have to be strategic about it.

627

00:30:38,830 --> 00:30:43,870

And so just deciding what you want

is gonna be what you wanna aim for

628

00:30:43,870 --> 00:30:47,140

is gonna be a lot stronger than just

saying, well, let's see what happens.

629

00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,370

Let's just start doing something and

hope that something happens like hope is.

630

00:30:52,045 --> 00:30:53,695

Is really not a good strategy.

631

00:30:53,785 --> 00:30:55,435

It's no strategy at all, to be honest.

632

00:30:55,435 --> 00:30:55,885

James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

633

00:30:56,035 --> 00:30:59,935

I mean, it's important to enroll the

support of others being a coach or

634

00:30:59,935 --> 00:31:02,815

whoever it might a mentor, you know, ask.

635

00:31:02,915 --> 00:31:06,035

if you're starting out, it's

like, who can I enroll to help me

636

00:31:06,035 --> 00:31:07,385

fulfill this particular vision?

637

00:31:07,385 --> 00:31:07,445

Yeah.

638

00:31:07,955 --> 00:31:09,725

I mean, you can't do it alone.

639

00:31:09,725 --> 00:31:11,585

You can try doing it

alone, but it's hard work.

640

00:31:11,825 --> 00:31:14,505

John: Well, you know, I was thinking about

this with the comedy stuff and story.

641

00:31:14,505 --> 00:31:17,205

I've been doing a lot of storytelling

stuff this year as well, and the more

642

00:31:17,205 --> 00:31:20,985

I do that, I think well hang, just hang

around in those sorts of environments

643

00:31:20,985 --> 00:31:25,545

with people who are doing those things,

helps me to grow and expands my network

644

00:31:25,545 --> 00:31:27,735

and so many other benefits as well.

645

00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:29,340

Same with that.

646

00:31:29,340 --> 00:31:34,080

If you have goals via a speaker or a

communicator or a trainer, something

647

00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,620

along those lines and you feel like

you're not really being heard or noticed,

648

00:31:39,090 --> 00:31:42,330

there's, there's a lot you can do, but

I think spending time with other people

649

00:31:42,330 --> 00:31:44,880

who are on that track is gonna help.

650

00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:46,050

Yeah.

651

00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:47,990

James Kilgarriff: So checking

around like-minded people.

652

00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:52,490

I mean, we've read the books, for example,

think and Grow Rich in Napoleon Hill.

653

00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,650

The people know, get a

template for success.

654

00:31:56,085 --> 00:31:58,035

I'm not saying it's the ultimate one.

655

00:31:58,935 --> 00:32:02,145

He spent 20 years in was interviewing

the richest people in America.

656

00:32:02,175 --> 00:32:04,125

How do they think success is?

657

00:32:04,665 --> 00:32:08,085

Talks about persistence and all sorts

of stuff, but one of the key things

658

00:32:08,085 --> 00:32:12,015

is become a worldwide phenomenon,

is the mastermind principle hanging

659

00:32:12,015 --> 00:32:13,275

around with like-minded people.

660

00:32:13,785 --> 00:32:14,025

Yeah.

661

00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:18,600

If you are hanging around with people

saying you can't do it, you won't do it.

662

00:32:18,780 --> 00:32:19,110

John: Yeah.

663

00:32:19,620 --> 00:32:20,940

And you're trying something out.

664

00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:26,700

And your closest people, your partner

parents, whoever is telling you, oh,

665

00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:29,820

well that didn't work, or That was

terrible and you've only just started

666

00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:33,180

doing it, you're, you gonna want to

stop doing it as good as possible.

667

00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,090

You, you know, you're

well, they're ignoring

668

00:32:36,090 --> 00:32:39,240

James Kilgarriff: what I, my good

intentions are therefore what I'm doing.

669

00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,130

I must be crazy so I'll stop doing it.

670

00:32:42,435 --> 00:32:42,735

Right.

671

00:32:43,020 --> 00:32:48,330

John: don't expect other people to

understand, but maybe if you can at

672

00:32:48,330 --> 00:32:52,800

least ask them to support rather than

to tear you down and say, you know what?

673

00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:53,640

It's, it is okay.

674

00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:54,150

It sucks.

675

00:32:54,150 --> 00:32:56,750

You know, one of the reasons, one

of the only reasons I even did my

676

00:32:56,750 --> 00:33:00,080

first open mic night, which most

people would be terrified of doing.

677

00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,970

I, I'm not saying I wasn't scared thing.

678

00:33:01,970 --> 00:33:05,550

I put it off for a long time because I

was, but, one of the reasons I, I think I

679

00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:07,770

was able to do it was because I, I took.

680

00:33:08,535 --> 00:33:10,965

I lowered the stakes for myself, Uhhuh.

681

00:33:11,235 --> 00:33:14,595

I didn't have to be,

a huge comedy success.

682

00:33:14,595 --> 00:33:15,525

I didn't have to be right.

683

00:33:15,525 --> 00:33:19,575

I'm gonna be discovered as

some amazing standup comedian.

684

00:33:20,145 --> 00:33:25,695

All I needed to do to be a success for me

that night was to get up there and do it

685

00:33:26,175 --> 00:33:31,305

because it was such a, a fear factor thing

for me that was blocking me from doing it.

686

00:33:31,605 --> 00:33:34,040

You know, like a, like you, a

parachute jumpers on like, like.

687

00:33:35,070 --> 00:33:38,010

Of course you want those to be successful,

but, but you know, the, one of the

688

00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:40,950

biggest things that would stop people

from doing it is the fear factor.

689

00:33:41,010 --> 00:33:41,970

And the same with this.

690

00:33:41,970 --> 00:33:43,950

So that, well, that's

the main fear factor.

691

00:33:43,950 --> 00:33:45,870

If I do that, that's already a success.

692

00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:49,260

If I don't get any laughs or

whatever else, okay, I think I'll

693

00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:53,580

still do it again, but at least I

would've gotten up there and given

694

00:33:53,610 --> 00:33:55,680

this a go to, take that first step.

695

00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:56,280

James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

696

00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:57,840

I just coached a guy in a big company.

697

00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,430

He's got a team and he says

engineering, engineering software guy.

698

00:34:02,490 --> 00:34:03,120

He just said.

699

00:34:04,245 --> 00:34:06,855

Most of my team members

want, want big successes?

700

00:34:06,855 --> 00:34:08,534

Well, why don't you just

start with the small ones.

701

00:34:08,655 --> 00:34:12,344

We had, we did the presentation, we

got the, the basic document, right?

702

00:34:12,375 --> 00:34:13,455

We got the basic plan.

703

00:34:13,455 --> 00:34:13,815

Right?

704

00:34:14,114 --> 00:34:17,475

Start with the small

and build on the small.

705

00:34:18,014 --> 00:34:21,344

Oh, you know, you said I stood up

and on on stage and gave my talk.

706

00:34:21,945 --> 00:34:22,965

That's a success.

707

00:34:23,054 --> 00:34:23,594

Oh no it's not.

708

00:34:23,645 --> 00:34:23,885

no.

709

00:34:23,885 --> 00:34:26,045

I didn't have a round of

applause from all these people.

710

00:34:26,525 --> 00:34:27,215

It doesn't matter.

711

00:34:27,275 --> 00:34:30,485

You stood up for the first time on a

stage in front of all these people.

712

00:34:31,489 --> 00:34:32,510

One person clap.

713

00:34:32,510 --> 00:34:32,900

Great.

714

00:34:32,905 --> 00:34:34,370

That's the, that's the start, isn't it?

715

00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,909

John: And the thing is, most people

do recognize in the audiences as well,

716

00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,449

whether it's comedy, storytelling,

professionals, public speaking, whatever

717

00:34:45,989 --> 00:34:48,000

they do recognize how difficult it is.

718

00:34:48,060 --> 00:34:52,560

And so when they see somebody maybe

who does struggle with the noses

719

00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,300

or, their first time doing it.

720

00:34:54,929 --> 00:34:55,650

They get it.

721

00:34:55,949 --> 00:34:56,159

Yeah.

722

00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:59,430

There's, there's really not that

many people who are gonna be harsh

723

00:34:59,430 --> 00:35:03,270

about it or cruel or that, oh,

well you suck, you can't do it.

724

00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,190

Most people are, are somewhat more

empathetic and would be more on the

725

00:35:08,190 --> 00:35:11,610

signs of, well, like, Hey, yeah,

maybe it wasn't great, but you did it.

726

00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:15,540

You got up there and you, you

gave a talk and we undervalue

727

00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,495

these little achievements.

728

00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:18,870

It's too much.

729

00:35:18,930 --> 00:35:22,740

'cause we all, we all think we

need to go from zero to hero in 60.

730

00:35:22,740 --> 00:35:24,660

And, and I just, it's a common,

731

00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:27,330

James Kilgarriff: it's a

common problem with people and

732

00:35:27,330 --> 00:35:28,295

they're looking for perfection.

733

00:35:30,045 --> 00:35:31,815

Again, I'm gonna quote Harv Eker again.

734

00:35:31,815 --> 00:35:34,155

He said sloppy success

is better than perfect

735

00:35:34,155 --> 00:35:34,875

mediocrity.

736

00:35:34,875 --> 00:35:35,625

I love that quote.

737

00:35:36,465 --> 00:35:38,355

Sloppy success is better than perfect.

738

00:35:38,355 --> 00:35:38,895

Mediocrity.

739

00:35:39,555 --> 00:35:42,135

John: He's, as you say, I'm

done before, which drives me.

740

00:35:42,135 --> 00:35:43,005

Don't freaking do it.

741

00:35:43,515 --> 00:35:44,685

Oh, I've forgotten about it.

742

00:35:44,685 --> 00:35:45,615

But either I will take

743

00:35:45,975 --> 00:35:47,745

James Kilgarriff: perfect

action if you wanna be less.

744

00:35:47,745 --> 00:35:49,395

You know, if you wanna be.

745

00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:52,540

It is about taking and, and that's a

big issue with a lot of people now.

746

00:35:52,575 --> 00:35:54,375

Now I can't start until.

747

00:35:55,725 --> 00:35:56,265

I do as well.

748

00:35:56,265 --> 00:35:57,945

And waiting is also resistance.

749

00:35:57,945 --> 00:35:58,455

By the way.

750

00:35:58,695 --> 00:36:00,345

I'll wait till the kids

have finished school.

751

00:36:00,345 --> 00:36:01,515

I'll wait till the summer's over.

752

00:36:01,515 --> 00:36:02,715

I'll wait till blah, blah, blah.

753

00:36:02,715 --> 00:36:03,645

I do it myself at times.

754

00:36:03,645 --> 00:36:04,335

I notice that.

755

00:36:05,475 --> 00:36:09,315

But it's just, just be sloppy.

756

00:36:09,375 --> 00:36:10,395

Stand on the stage.

757

00:36:10,395 --> 00:36:11,595

Give you a spur speech.

758

00:36:12,285 --> 00:36:13,545

If people laugh, they've laughed.

759

00:36:13,545 --> 00:36:14,015

If they don't, they don't.

760

00:36:15,975 --> 00:36:19,575

John: And I think one of the biggest

things that holds people banging, so

761

00:36:19,575 --> 00:36:24,705

one of the places that this fear factor

really comes from is our fear of judgment,

762

00:36:24,795 --> 00:36:27,255

of negative judgment from other people.

763

00:36:27,315 --> 00:36:28,605

What will people say?

764

00:36:29,115 --> 00:36:30,585

What will people think of me?

765

00:36:30,645 --> 00:36:34,035

And this is very relevant to all

the stuff we've talked about.

766

00:36:34,785 --> 00:36:38,295

In this chat because those

times of, should I speak up?

767

00:36:38,295 --> 00:36:39,435

What, what will people say?

768

00:36:39,435 --> 00:36:40,275

What will people think of me?

769

00:36:40,275 --> 00:36:41,205

How would they view me?

770

00:36:41,445 --> 00:36:44,055

They might start to view me

differently, so, well, good.

771

00:36:44,145 --> 00:36:45,645

Do you want things to stay the same?

772

00:36:45,915 --> 00:36:49,275

'cause you're not happy with that,

so, but you, you might have to go

773

00:36:49,275 --> 00:36:51,735

through some discomfort to get there.

774

00:36:51,795 --> 00:36:53,295

And people generally

don't want to do that.

775

00:36:53,295 --> 00:36:56,205

Everyone wants their, their

easy life, their smooth ride.

776

00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:57,390

It do.

777

00:36:57,720 --> 00:36:58,560

It ain't like that.

778

00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,240

If you, if you want, there's no like that.

779

00:37:00,510 --> 00:37:02,100

So I, I like the sloppy success.

780

00:37:02,370 --> 00:37:03,240

James Kilgarriff: The sloppy success.

781

00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:03,450

Yeah.

782

00:37:03,450 --> 00:37:06,210

It's a great quote and a lot

of people resonate with that.

783

00:37:06,930 --> 00:37:07,230

John: Yeah.

784

00:37:07,590 --> 00:37:10,210

I think it's, probably a great

quote to wrap this up with.

785

00:37:10,210 --> 00:37:11,020

So better to have.

786

00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:11,050

I

787

00:37:11,050 --> 00:37:13,750

James Kilgarriff: think it came from

Harker, but it was one of his hope

788

00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:15,880

speakers on stage some years back.

789

00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:16,900

John: Okay.

790

00:37:16,900 --> 00:37:17,170

It wasn't.

791

00:37:19,660 --> 00:37:20,290

It could well be.

792

00:37:21,250 --> 00:37:23,080

It doesn't, it doesn't matter

who it came from though.

793

00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:23,860

That's a great quote.

794

00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:26,620

Sloppy success is better

than perfect mediocrity.

795

00:37:26,620 --> 00:37:28,360

James Kilgarriff: Sloppy

success is better than perfect.

796

00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:28,900

Mediocre.

797

00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:31,600

Just be sloppy.

798

00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,300

Get your first software product out.

799

00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:38,050

Get your first version of the

different ki You know your own.

800

00:37:38,110 --> 00:37:41,020

You've got a phone you're developing,

get the phone out or whatever.

801

00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:43,480

Get your first coaching program out.

802

00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,340

It's not gonna be perfect.

803

00:37:46,285 --> 00:37:49,375

John: And make the decision that

you're not going to be ignored.

804

00:37:49,375 --> 00:37:51,085

You're going to be seen.

805

00:37:51,085 --> 00:37:52,885

Do the stuff that will get you noticed.

806

00:37:52,885 --> 00:37:53,665

Get yourself hurt.

807

00:37:53,815 --> 00:37:57,025

Because if you're waiting for it

all to come to you, I can tell you

808

00:37:57,025 --> 00:37:59,755

this from personal experience, if

you're waiting for that to all come

809

00:37:59,755 --> 00:38:00,510

to you, it's gonna be a long wait.

810

00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:02,920

For most people, there are those.

811

00:38:02,980 --> 00:38:03,850

There are those times.

812

00:38:03,850 --> 00:38:05,680

There's, there's, there are

exceptions to this rule.

813

00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,320

There are definitely

people who get spotted.

814

00:38:08,380 --> 00:38:11,530

They, someone sees something

and says, alright, you we're

815

00:38:11,530 --> 00:38:13,000

gonna give them an opportunity.

816

00:38:13,060 --> 00:38:14,485

And don't resent them.

817

00:38:14,975 --> 00:38:16,300

Don't resent them for it.

818

00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:17,170

Good luck to them.

819

00:38:17,380 --> 00:38:18,910

But people too often.

820

00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:23,950

People all too often undervalue or

underestimate the amount of luck that

821

00:38:23,950 --> 00:38:25,570

goes into a lot of people's success.

822

00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,650

'cause sometimes it is getting spotted

by the right person or meeting the

823

00:38:29,650 --> 00:38:31,245

right connection or whatever else.

824

00:38:32,260 --> 00:38:36,640

Those things, those opportunities

for success can only really happen

825

00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,830

when you are out there and being,

you know, going for sloppy success.

826

00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:41,190

James Kilgarriff: Yeah.

827

00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:42,870

The more you're out there,

the more lucky you get.

828

00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:46,320

I guess you're bound to meet someone

or someone who's got someone who

829

00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,410

knows someone who will help you,

but you, you put yourself out there,

830

00:38:49,740 --> 00:38:50,340

John: stick with it.

831

00:38:50,340 --> 00:38:50,580

Right.

832

00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:50,970

Yeah.

833

00:38:51,180 --> 00:38:51,690

James Kilgarriff: Interesting.

834

00:38:51,690 --> 00:38:52,140

I stick with it.

835

00:38:52,140 --> 00:38:52,530

I mean, good.

836

00:38:52,650 --> 00:38:54,390

By the way, I'm not perfect

with any of this stuff.

837

00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:54,930

Not me.

838

00:38:54,930 --> 00:38:57,945

I mean, this is what I've noticed

when I've coached lots and lots of

839

00:38:57,945 --> 00:39:00,195

people over the many years, how.

840

00:39:01,035 --> 00:39:04,305

Well, most people have the

similar mental dynamics of what

841

00:39:04,305 --> 00:39:06,525

holds them back, keeps 'em safe.

842

00:39:06,795 --> 00:39:08,265

Some of 'em are afraid of success.

843

00:39:08,265 --> 00:39:08,835

That's another one.

844

00:39:08,835 --> 00:39:10,035

Not just afraid of failure.

845

00:39:10,305 --> 00:39:10,815

The biggie.

846

00:39:11,325 --> 00:39:11,505

John: Yeah.

847

00:39:11,505 --> 00:39:13,065

Yeah, absolutely.

848

00:39:13,065 --> 00:39:15,845

Afraid of success, afraid of

failure is, but it's all that

849

00:39:15,845 --> 00:39:16,600

stuff that keeps you stuck.

850

00:39:17,780 --> 00:39:20,510

James, thank you for actually,

it's been a good chat.

851

00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:26,300

It has been a good chat, and I'm happy

to let the audience in on what I get to

852

00:39:26,300 --> 00:39:30,630

experience on on a pretty much weekly

basis with you in our, little chat.

853

00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:31,545

So I, yeah, I

854

00:39:31,545 --> 00:39:33,690

James Kilgarriff: like it because I dunno

what we're gonna talk about next and

855

00:39:33,690 --> 00:39:38,110

it unfolds and this little podcast has

been a result of allowing it to unfold.

856

00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:39,220

It's been good, Johnny.

857

00:39:39,340 --> 00:39:40,330

Thanks for inviting me on.

858

00:39:40,660 --> 00:39:41,290

Thanks James.

859

00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:42,190

Speak soon.

860

00:39:43,872 --> 00:39:46,752

John: So feeling ignored

isn't the end of the story.

861

00:39:46,782 --> 00:39:48,552

It can be the start of a new one.

862

00:39:48,942 --> 00:39:52,842

Whether that's deciding not to

wait for opportunities, reframing

863

00:39:52,842 --> 00:39:55,002

rejection, or just daring to show up.

864

00:39:55,062 --> 00:39:56,982

A little sloppier, but a lot braver.

865

00:39:57,312 --> 00:40:02,322

You get to choose and If this conversation

between James and myself resonated

866

00:40:02,322 --> 00:40:06,132

with you somehow, please share it with

someone who you think might need the

867

00:40:06,132 --> 00:40:08,082

reminder that their voice matters.

868

00:40:08,832 --> 00:40:12,642

And if you're done waiting to be

noticed, hit subscribe and join

869

00:40:12,642 --> 00:40:16,212

me here because the more we speak

up, the harder we are to ignore.

870

00:40:16,392 --> 00:40:17,172

See you next time.