Episode Summary: This conversation is a rerun of an episode we initially published in July 2022. We talked about how taking care of our teeth can impact the environment and how we can do better

Jenn, Leekei and Rob discussed the environmental impact of taking care of our teeth as well as plastics contained in toothpaste, dental floss and toothbrushes and alternative solutions to reduce the daily release of microplastics in waterways.

Rob shared his experience of implementing change in his dental practice by using more sustainable equipment and consumables, and advocacy

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org

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Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

You can find out more on page 78, 79 and 162 of the Carbon Almanac and on the website you can tap the footnotes link and type in 027, 346 and 256

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Jenn Swanson, Leekei Tang and Rob Slater.

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and Community Connector, helping people help themselves.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and a podcaster from Paris, France.

Rob is from Birmingham in the UK, he is an orthodontist, triathlete, coach and podcaster.

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Hi, I'm leaky.

2

JENN: Hi, I'm Jen.

3

Leekei: Hi, Jen.

4

What are we going to talk about today?

5

JENN: We're going to talk about

toothbrushes and dental floss.

6

And actually, I think we should

talk about the industry of

7

dentistry and the planet today.

8

Leekei: And so our entry point is plastic.

9

JENN: Yes,

10

absolutely.

11

And all the plastics, and we have

a special guest with us today.

12

Who's not really a guest because he's part

of the carbon Almanac and doing a whole

13

bunch of stuff behind the scenes, but

he happens to be an expert in this area.

14

So let's welcome, Rob,

15

ROB: Hi, Hi.

16

JENN: should we say Dr.

17

Rob?

18

ROB: It can be Dr.

19

Rob.

20

Yeah.

21

JENN: Tell us what you do, Rob.

22

, ROB: I'm an orthodontist.

23

Uh, so I treat, , adults and children.

24

So my main role is, uh,

straightening teeth.

25

We also get involved with,

uh, tooth whitening as well.

26

And I've been an orthodontist since 1997.

27

So it's my 25th anniversary this year.

28

JENN: Congrats.

29

So

30

what is the biggest thing that

you're noticing and what is your

31

pet peeve in this whole thing?

32

ROB: I suppose one of my things that

worries me most , is the toothbrush

33

issue because people are changing their

toothbrush on a, quite a regular basis.

34

, , some people are changing their

toothbrush every three months, every

35

six months and, that's needed.

36

So there's a need for people

to keep , their mouth healthy.

37

And so that's my prime role, but,

uh, I feel terrible that, uh, this.

38

So many toothbrushes

are made outta plastic.

39

That's the bristles , and the handles.

40

And there are, there

are alternatives there.

41

, and so bamboo is one of the, , materials

that's used a lot in toothbrushes.

42

And I, I would like to have

some part in changing that.

43

Uh, but having invested in some

bamboo toothbrushes, there isn't

44

really that much of a market for them.

45

So people.

46

Necessarily buying them.

47

So we do point it out.

48

And, we mention it to our patients and

slowly people are starting , to buy them.

49

But, if you buy toothbrushes,

even if you buy bamboo ones, you

50

still have to be careful because.

51

If you want to completely get

rid of plastics, sometimes the

52

bristles are still made of plastic,

even with the BR bamboo handles.

53

And sometimes the, the bristles

are made out of animal hair as well.

54

So that's another thing , to look out

for, and it's not always made that

55

obvious in the product information.

56

So, , again at the moment, I think

that, , there, there are companies

57

doing these things, but until it

really scales up, uh, we have a

58

problem of supply and demand really.

59

JENN: I always use bamboo toothbrushes.

60

And I also use that dental lace

that you, you pop the refill

61

into a glass, uh, little.

62

Holder that has the,

the cutter for the lace.

63

and so when I go to the dentist,

I always, say, no thanks when they

64

try to give me stuff at the end

of the appointment, because I.

65

Getting it myself, but it's a lot

more expensive, you know, when you

66

can get a free toothbrush and dental

floss from the dentist at your six

67

month or eight month appointment,

, it's more expensive to spend $5 or

68

whatever it is on a bamboo toothbrush.

69

And then the dental lace and the dental

lace is also, it breaks really easily.

70

So there are definitely some

areas that could be improved in

71

the, the natural replacements.

72

I think.

73

ROB: And I, I think that if patients

want to do something that they

74

can talk to their dentist and

say, why don't you provide these?

75

And just put that bit of information

inside the dentist's head to make

76

them start thinking about, Hmm, maybe

I should look and see what is there,

77

but it comes down again to, um, a

supply and demand thing that if.

78

I was actually offered by a

company to have some bamboo

79

brushes at one pound each, but I

would have to buy 10,000 of them.

80

and storage wise,

81

we could realize stuck for years and

years if we weren't selling them.

82

So it just, it, it just didn't

make sense to do that, but, uh,

83

we are waiting and I think it it's

a reasonable thing at some stage.

84

If there is the market.

85

Leekei: But what about the,

the regulations because , it's

86

a non fact that it's made of

plastic and it's not recyclable.

87

And so is there any lobby that

works towards, , making it illegal?

88

ROB: Well, one thing that is happening is

that, uh, Colgate or a company in the UK

89

at the moment are they, they do something

where you can have bins and people will

90

put the toothbrushes into the bins and

then they're taken away and made into a

91

park bench or something of that, kind.

92

And I think that could be played with.

93

, this park bench has been made

by recycled toothbrushes.

94

And you're sitting amongst nature.

95

That makes a lot of sense.

96

Cause it's reminding you of, the

environment at the same time.

97

And one of the other things we've

tried is to get one of these

98

recycling bins in our practice.

99

But, uh, we were told because there were.

100

Council, I think there was a council,

, involvement with it that, uh, they'd

101

already got one in their local library.

102

And so we couldn't have one . So again,

we we're in a very good place, you

103

know, we could actually make something

of it, see patients on a regular basis.

104

And so again, it's um, if companies

are prepared, then I'm sure if, um,

105

dentists become more aware of this

issue, uh, that they can be a, a part

106

of the solution, but it's taking time.

107

I think that's the.

108

Leekei: Is there an alt to toothbrushes

because I saw, I see ads where,

109

you know, you can like some gums

or something that you can just

110

chew without having to brush a tip.

111

that, does it work?

112

ROB: It probably doesn't

work quite so well.

113

So it, it could be that you are taking,

\ , an element of risk and any of these new

114

niche areas, uh, are often market led.

115

So a company will release them in advance

of the responsible bodies, takes years

116

for people to do research on things.

117

So they keep chopping and changing

to make it difficult for research to

118

reveal whether things work or not.

119

So, uh, I, I think that one, one area.

120

That I quite like is moving

towards, , toothpaste tablets.

121

They're not really toothpaste, but

they're a tablet instead of, , a paste.

122

Um, , the big problem with

toothpastes is that often the.

123

The toothpaste itself, the tube

itself is made outta a combination.

124

Sometimes plastics try to move away

from metals cuz the combination

125

of metal and plastic makes them

even more difficult to recycle.

126

if you've got plastics,

then rolling them up.

127

There's some companies actually

even will try to design it.

128

So that 10% of the toothpaste is

left in the tube that you can't get.

129

BEC that 10% is wasted and all of these,

uh, toothpastes have got microplastics in.

130

So we're putting these microplastics

in our mouth, which help to

131

scour the surface of the enamel.

132

But we then spit that into, , the.

133

Water supply goes off, down, into

the water waste, , and, uh, of

134

course into our rivers and streams.

135

So , that's quite a worrying thing.

136

And I think that if we can move

towards other forms of, um, perhaps

137

toothpaste that don't have microplastics

in or, uh, toothpaste tablets, and

138

that could be a good move forward,

139

JENN: I was, I was shocked to learn

that not that long ago, that there were

140

microplastics right in the toothpaste

141

and we ordered some tooth

tablets, but they had to come

142

from the UK and we're in Canada.

143

It took forever to get this bottle, but

it was a great big bottle and it it's

144

still going two years later or something,

but You know, then there's the whole

145

question of, , you know, does it work?

146

Are you supposed to have fluoride,

, like there's all those questions and

147

then, um, we've tried the tooth PA

like the pace that you can buy in

148

the health food store that's made

with clay and things like that.

149

And, uh, and that works, but it,

again, it's more expensive than the

150

ones that That are mass produced.

151

That aren't good for the planet, right?

152

It's the same old issue.

153

ROB: yeah.

154

And I think the, the they're small

companies very often, so their margins are

155

much more difficult to, , , to achieve.

156

And as a result, they're trying

to work around that by creating a

157

subscription model for their business.

158

But I contacted, um, a tablet company

a few weeks back, uh, Interested

159

to find out what they offered

to the dental profession, dental

160

professionals, dental practices.

161

And I just haven't had a response back

and I've had that happen a few times

162

over the years just don't respond.

163

So I think they're clearly wanting

to go direct to the consumer

164

because that's where they feel

, the proper profit is for them.

165

Leekei: Yeah, but also

because, um, there's small

166

companies and there's startups.

167

And so this is something I see

a lot that small companies, the

168

founders spend a lot of time, energy

on developing their product and

169

don't really take care of sales.

170

, there's different sales

channels they can get to.

171

So I don't think it's because

they are not very interested.

172

Maybe it's because they are

not very well organized as

173

well.

174

ROB: Yeah, yeah.

175

That, I think that's absolutely right.

176

Yeah.

177

, and , some of the earlier tablets

didn't have fluoride at all.

178

And I.

179

I always feel that fluoride , is

a good thing , to have in

180

a, a tooth cleaning product.

181

And, um, if people are worried

about fluoride, I often

182

say, well, do you drink tea?

183

Cause most people do.

184

, the average tea leaf

contains, , a thousand parts.

185

Perme fluoride, just

the same as toothpaste.

186

So there's a huge

amount of fluoride in it.

187

It does favorably suck up fluoride.

188

And although that isn't available

fluoride to your mouth, when you drink

189

tea, , there is a reasonable amount in

terms of the volume you're drinking.

190

So you.

191

Could probably end up taking in more

fluoride per year by drinking tea

192

than you would buy, using toothpaste

193

JENN: There you go, you

learn something every day.

194

I didn't know that

195

Leekei: Yeah.

196

But , since you, mentioned that

there's small plastic, like small

197

PLA pieces of plastic in toothpaste.

198

I looked at , all my toothpaste tube

and none of them mentioned that.

199

So can you confirm that it's an old

200

toothpaste that we used.

201

ROB: There's usually something like,

um, polyethylene or something of those,

202

those sorts of, uh, words that are used.

203

So it'll be a chemical name that's

used, so they won't say microplastics.

204

Um, but it'll be the word if you

see the word poly and, uh, YL,

205

those are telling you that there's

some kind of plastic ingredient in.

206

Leekei: But that's,

207

that's really bad because there's there

no way that microplastic can be recycled.

208

ROB: it's a little like, uh, people

use the term CI rate instead of

209

citric acid, because they don't

want, they want to hide the idea

210

that there's an acid in something.

211

, so you, , you kind of just use your

terminology it's there, but yeah,

212

you've gotta know what you're looking.

213

JENN: So what can the regular person

do um, is is there a better way to

214

talk to your, your dental provider

about this, uh, as a patient, um,

215

like what, what can each

person listening to this take

216

action on.

217

ROB: I think there are.

218

Different levels.

219

Uh, us as patients and I talk

about me cleaning my teeth.

220

I can make a move to

using toothpaste tablets.

221

If I do that, then I will use,

uh, one with fluoride in it.

222

Um, there are, uh, flosses that, uh, are

made out of corn starch and corn fiber.

223

So those are biodegradable and,

uh, . , toothbrushes that we can get,

224

which don't, uh, don't use plastic

or, or at least if you, you can

225

move in the right direction and not

use as much plastic talking to your

226

dentist or your orthodontist about it.

227

And it, again, we go back to the

carbon monk and their children's ARMAC

228

and how, uh, we want to encourage

children to talk to their parents.

229

And if, if children are,

um, uh, thinking about this.

230

You know, they can talk to their

parents and that helps with the family.

231

And this can all be raised

with the orthodontist as well.

232

So it is a conversation, isn't it?

233

The dentists, I think, , have to make

a decision on how they use plastics.

234

And so for me, it's trying

to use the paper cups.

235

So.

236

Um, in some countries, you, you

can autoclave your, uh, glasses

237

between patients, but that's

discouraged in our countries.

238

So we use paper cups

rather than plastic ones.

239

Think about how many patients we see.

240

Yeah, that's a lot of paper cups.

241

Uh, there are some plastics that we

have to use to protect ourselves.

242

, but if we aren't constantly on the

lookout to try and work out ways, um, ways

243

around things, , selling products like.

244

These things that patients might want,

, and the industry itself, I think if

245

the industry can, , start to provide

products so that, , small companies

246

can, have , larger amounts bought from

these companies and then they can sell

247

on so that they're using, I think often

it's easier for a company if they have

248

a big, , purchase from one company

and then that company that's selling,

249

a lot of other products can then sell

'em onto us, probably makes it easier.

250

So bigger companies need

to have an awareness.

251

I think setting

252

JENN: When I worked in the hospital

system for 23 years, um, when I first

253

started Everything was reusable.

254

You know, we had, we didn't have

plastic, kidney basins, they were

255

stainless steel and we had drap

cloths and we had, uh, cloth gowns

256

with the tight cuffs and everything

got autoclaved or reused or washed.

257

And, and we've really gone away from that.

258

And I really hope we can start going

back to that because those things.

259

As well,

260

and it gave people jobs

in the washing and the

261

sterilizing

262

department.

263

Um,

264

Yeah.

265

ROB: And our other thing is , the

aligner industry that's taking off.

266

Um, I talk, I've talked to my colleagues

about this and I think just before

267

lockdown, actually, I looked at the

figures for, uh, one of the big aligner

268

companies, uh, who were, I suppose,

in their literature saying, you know,

269

we've, , treated 8 million patients.

270

And then I looked.

271

Uh, and I thought, well,

that's how many aligners?

272

The average is 25 aligners per hour.

273

That's 50 aligners.

274

That's, uh, 8 million a year.

275

That's one centimeter.

276

And I worked out how long

the aligners would go.

277

And I think it was somewhere like from

Birmingham in the UK to north Africa

278

every year in an these aligners.

279

And of course they're, they're non

recyclable because use multiple

280

types of plastic to create them.

281

And so, , at the moment, the industry

is trying to create aligners that can

282

be recycled, um, or ways of sending

them back so that they can be treated.

283

and.

284

Potentially reuse for other forms,

but at the moment, the align, the

285

aligner industry is really taking off

because, , patents have, uh, have changed.

286

And so it's becoming easier for

people to make their own aligners in

287

house and provide them to patients.

288

So it's going up rather than down.

289

And I think there are other ways of

treating patients where you're not having

290

to use something that's not recyclable.

291

So, uh, I think align is the

right thing for some people.

292

So we use them, but, uh, it's just,

I don't wanna just go down the road

293

of converting my practice to just

using something that's non recyclable.

294

I feel uncomfortable about that.

295

JENN: it's good to hear someone in

the industry talking about this.

296

I have, not, , heard

this so far, so I'm very

297

happy to hear

298

ROB: Well, we, we, I mean, in

dentistry, it probably, uh, and as

299

these figures probably relate to

the UK, it's about 3% of the carbon

300

footprint of the overall, , medicine.

301

So I think there's lots that can

be done in, in medicine in general.

302

Leekei: Oh,

303

yes.

304

Hmm.

305

ROB: it's something to be

worked at that's for sure.

306

Leekei: Yes, but you need to

choose what, um, What goes first,

307

you know, safety or environment.

308

And I think in the medical

field, it's very often is

309

. Patient's safety first, right?

310

ROB: well, you are, you

are absolutely right.

311

And that's, I think one good way

that we could use our governing

312

bodies in a, proactive way.

313

So in the UK, for example, we have the

care quality commission and they can come

314

around your practice and assess you and

they can literally just turn up if they

315

want and they'll look through and redo.

316

Critique, and this is put on a

website, so you can be really

317

criticized for what you're doing.

318

And there isn't anywhere in

the CQC sees inspections.

319

That really looks at how green

you are or how green you are as a

320

practice or how sustainable you are.

321

And it, I think it would be quite a

nice thing for, the CQC to develop is.

322

is.

323

actually a section of the examination

to see where you are on that.

324

\ what auditing are you doing on

the products that you're using?

325

The whole host of things that

could be done to improve the

326

regulation of the industry.

327

And again, it would all make people

just more aware that, uh, this is

328

an area that it doesn't need to

be looked at and is an important.

329

Leekei: I used to wear contact

lenses and their dailies and I've

330

been using it since I was 17, I think.

331

And.

332

It's, this comes in a small thing, plastic

thing, and then you there's a pill.

333

And I have two eyes.

334

So obviously I'm using

two every single day.

335

So that's 60 a months.

336

And I very quickly realized that it's

was not good for the environment.

337

And even though, , Now some people

think, and I used to think that plastic

338

can be recycled a hundred percent,

but even though it could be recycled,

339

I just, something didn't come up.

340

Right.

341

So I decided to switch from my Del

342

to monthly.

343

Now.

344

JENN: Yeah, I have monthly ones too.

345

And, and I, they last a

whole lot longer than that.

346

Cuz I wear my glasses a lot

347

Leekei: Okay.

348

I do the same thing,

but I didn't dare, just

349

JENN: but you know,

350

Leekei: the one.

351

JENN: no, I, I, I write down

the dates, I wear them and then

352

I count up a

353

month and that's good.

354

So they last

355

probably about five months, but

356

What the heck

357

Leekei: Hmm.

358

JENN: I was thinking as I was

taking a, one of those rapid COVID

359

tests the other day, because I was

going into a healthcare facility to

360

visit, um, a congregation member.

361

I was looking at the plastic

that was in one of those kits.

362

And I don't know if the

363

kits

364

are all the same,

365

but you know, they come with all this

stuff, including some little holder thing.

366

That's hard plastic.

367

That's got all these little

holes in it and you only need

368

one

369

one hole to do this

thing, uh, for this test.

370

And I don't know if anyone else

experienced the horror . Seeing this

371

kit that was then just thrown right out.

372

I mean, I get it.

373

We have

374

to do this,

375

but at the same time, oh my goodness.

376

I wonder who was inventing this and

377

whether

378

they were thinking

379

about, you know, everyone getting

380

these

381

kits and using them multiple

382

times a

383

week.

384

some

385

people do I've only

ever had one because I,

386

um, Ha haven't worried about testing

myself in other contexts other than

387

going into healthcare facilities.

388

But yeah, it was an interesting experience

and I sat there just looking at all

389

this stuff, going into the garbage and

thinking, oh wow, there's so much work.

390

We have to

391

do

392

ROB: yeah, yeah.

393

With it.

394

It's funny how.

395

People were trying to, I think there

was just certainly this thought

396

about plastics before COVID and then

suddenly COVID hit every was just

397

covering themselves with plastic.

398

And just though it's thrown

out the window a bit.

399

Um, yeah.

400

It's um, it's just, it's

a struggle, isn't it?

401

Leekei: Yeah, I think COVID made

us live in the ocean of plastic,

402

you know, just think of all the

masks that we use every day.

403

And that's, there's a lot of plastic

404

,

in in the

405

masks.

406

ROB: Yeah.

407

Yeah.

408

Well, fortunately my wife bought

lots of these LA, um, masks, and so

409

we had a rack that was put by our

door so that if we forgot, we could

410

just pick one up as we were going

out and, uh, yeah, quite like that.

411

we, we still have to give people

plastic masks and people don't

412

bring their own to the practice.

413

So we are giving out these masks

and they're more of a problem.

414

So, and again, it's not that

easy to find these things and,

415

um, find plastic free ones.

416

Leekei: but because you care, you're doing

417

things differently.

418

ROB: Yeah, I think it's always

about moving the right direction.

419

Isn't it?

420

It's, uh, you can't always completely

clear the whole business of it, but if

421

you're, if you're trying, then it's the

first step, isn't it like cycling to work.

422

It's like cycling to work.

423

JENN: I

424

wish I could

425

ROB: yeah, so I, I have my bike and I put

it outside the practice and we are just,

426

we are just having a refurb done at the

moment and I've made sure that we are

427

having a bike rack put into the car park.

428

It's only a small car park, but we'll

have more space when we've finished.

429

And so again, that's another

part of, you know, people can

430

put their bikes in there and see.

431

This is another way of transporting

yourself around Birmingham.

432

Cause we have a lot going on in Birmingham

to try and encourage more cycling.

433

Uh, I realize that it's not possible

for everybody, but again, it's just

434

trying to encourage that thought.

435

Isn't it.

436

JENN: That's a great idea.

437

I have a little old electric

car and, um, I can get to work,

438

but then I have to plug it

439

into the wall.

440

and

441

trickle charge.

442

Before I'm able to drive home again.

443

Cause

444

otherwise I

445

won't get

446

home

447

and range.

448

Anxiety is real

449

but, um, yeah, it works.

450

ROB: yeah.

451

Well, it's for me, it's a slightly

different range of anxiety because

452

it's a very steep, uphill home.

453

it's anxiety of hill.

454

JENN: Hey, you get your workout at

the same time as getting to work.

455

That's excellent.

456

uh, that's good.

457

Well, it's been great having this

conversation and, uh, thank you so much

458

for your insight and your information.

459

Um, I've learned a

460

few.

461

things

462

ROB: Well, good.

463

I happy was of help.

464

Leekei: thank

465

you so much.

466

ROB: Thank you.

467

Bye bye.

468

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