Shownotes
Have you ever faced a major career transition? How did you manage the challenges that came with it?
Glenn and Julie welcome Doug Motley, an accomplished real estate developer and the principal of Jackalingo Asset Management. Doug's journey from the banking sector to real estate development is nothing short of inspirational.
Growing up in Delaware, Doug has always been surrounded by a close-knit community, which played a role in shaping his career and entrepreneurial spirit.
Doug shares his appreciation for the changing seasons and how they reflect the ebb and flow of energy in local communities—transforming winter doldrums into the bustling vibrancy of summer.
He discusses his transition from a large banking institution to a smaller, more intimate real estate firm, where he taught himself financial modeling and rapidly rose to the position of CFO.
Throughout the episode, Doug emphasizes the importance of agility, persistence, and community-oriented projects. From launching JLAM in 2011 to his upcoming innovative retail center project, Doug demonstrates his commitment to creating spaces that benefit both investors and local residents.
The conversation touches on his unique ability to blend analytical skills with creative problem-solving, making complex real estate concepts accessible and engaging.
Empowering Moments
00:00 Delaware: Tight-knit community with easy accessibility.
05:54 Shift in work culture prompted career reevaluation.
09:01 Chose between expensive colleges; opted for scholarship.
11:10 Ignored Cornell summer program for beach summer.
13:44 Option for summer internship led to job opportunities.
19:41 Dewey Beach evolved into a year-round destination.
22:00 Each season here offers unique experiences.
24:16 Transitioned to small company, learned real estate development.
29:56 Determined not to waste potential observed in others.
32:11 Unbelievable timing, challenging, but educational finance experience.
36:38 Business partners decide to scale by delegating tasks.
40:33 Past ventures caused significant mental distraction and anxiety.
42:56 Exciting walkable retail center with restaurants, parks.
48:35 Improving everything I touch for community pride.
49:25 You always strive to improve, endlessly.
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Empowering Takeaways
**Seasonal Energy Dynamics:** - Doug Motley appreciates how different seasons bring distinct energy levels and activities, impacting both individual motivation and business operations.
**Career Transition & Adaptation:** - Doug's shift from a rigid corporate banking environment to a more casual, entrepreneurial real estate setting highlights the ability to adapt to different professional cultures and thrive.
**Community-Centric Real Estate:** - Doug emphasizes developing real estate projects that benefit the community, focusing on integrating transportation links and enriching undersupplied commercial areas.
**Self-Taught Expertise:** - Faced with a lack of immediate supervision, Doug self-taught financial modeling and planning, proving the importance of self-initiative in skill acquisition and career advancement.
**Persistence Against Failure:** - Doug’s approach to viewing failure as iterative learning rather than a dead end underscores the significance of persistence and adaptive learning in entrepreneurship.
**Mentorship & Support:** - Doug credits much of his success to mentors and champions who saw potential in him, highlighting the value of support networks in entrepreneurial journeys.
**Long-Term Community Impact:** - Doug's end game focuses on leaving lasting positive impacts on communities and projects, prioritizing sustainable and beneficial development over immediate financial gains.
**Balanced Perspective on Success and Failure:** - Doug’s reflections reveal a balanced view of success and failure, marked by continuous learning, adaptation, and a proactive approach to seizing opportunities and overcoming challenges.
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Transcripts
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Empowering Entrepreneurs podcast. I'm Glenn Harper. What's so funny?
Julie Smith [:You kinda settled it. It happened. Settled. Julie Smith.
Glenn Harper [:How are things today, Julie?
Julie Smith [:Hey. You know, we just were saying how dry it is out, but, you know, other than that, we can't complain. It's still warm in September. So
Glenn Harper [:Fall weather in Ohio is literally the only really good thing about Columbus.
Julie Smith [:I know.
Glenn Harper [:From a weather standpoint.
Julie Smith [:For 30 days, we live here full of months. Great.
Glenn Harper [:Well, we've got a great guest today. I'm a do a little brief intro here and see if I can help.
Julie Smith [:By brief, he means not so brief. Even on the way over here, I was like, wow, Glenn. These are getting to be It's
Glenn Harper [:just so eloquently. It's all good. Alright. Well, we'd like to introduce Doug Motley, principal of Jack Lingos Asset Management, probably his alter ego name, not sure, and Rockford Capital Management. From his time running MBNA in the late nineties and early 2000, he has followed his passion to not just be and sell real estate, but to create a boutique niche where the investor is part of the investment, not just an investor in said investment. When one hears a hears a real estate investor, there are many investments there there are many thoughts that may come to mind. But in Doug's case, the differential is that he aligns like minded investors with the projects that fit their goals versus just taking money and throwing at any old project. Just like most entrepreneurs, his journey has been most interesting, one to say the least.
Glenn Harper [:As a pilot, he gets to see the highs and lows from a different perspective, which provides the clarity to help him and his clients navigate the complex world of real estate investing. Thankfully, he has Woody and Winston to bribe him with the get up and go to attack life with a passion every day. Don't hold against something he has been on the inside employed at banks that has given an acute understanding of how the world of finance works so he can bring that value to his investors. Even though he's in from the smallest state in the USA, he has made a big impact in the real estate world. Thanks, Doug, for being on our show.
Doug Motley [:Thank you. Appreciate it, Glenn and Julie. Nice to see you both.
Glenn Harper [:Well, I tell you, it's good to hear, you know, real estate is the thing. People talk about it all the time, and, you know, you're into that. But before we get into that, we'd like to, you know, get a little bit to know about you and where you're from, what you do, and all those things. So
Julie Smith [:And you have to set the record straight on one thing. What? How he pronounces Oh,
Glenn Harper [:we'll get to that. Oh, for sure. I we I the phonetics are a big be big deal. So you grew up in Delaware Dover, Delaware, which is just down the street from, Helen's sausage house and the home of the Dover Motor Speedway. What's that like having the 2 of the best things in Delaware in your backyard?
Doug Motley [:That that's, probably an arguable statement. There's a couple other highlights in the state, but but I've been fortunate to live up and down the the giant state of Delaware in in my life, but was born in the middle part, went to college and worked in the northern part, and then now for the past almost 20 years have been in the southern part. So it's about 2 hours to drive north to south in the state of Delaware, and at its widest part, maybe, an hour east to west. But it's been a fantastic experience, and, you know, I think one of the really unique things about the state of Delaware is how tight knit of a community it is. And if you need to get something done, the accessibility to pick up the phone and call somebody who you probably know, to help get something done is is pretty remarkable. And one of the the inside jokes for Delawareans is you meet somebody, you can meet them in Hawaii. I I met, a woman from Delaware, ironically, in January. And the first question you ask is where'd you go to high school? And it it's it's such a a small environment.
Doug Motley [:You play to get, you know, high school sports against somebody or we're friends with them at the beach in the summertime, all those things. So, yeah, Delaware has been a great place to call home for for most of my life. And, it's a really exciting place to have built a business and continue to grow a business.
Glenn Harper [:Do you, what'd your parents do for a living while you grew up in Delaware?
Doug Motley [:So, my dad had a background in banking, but got to Delaware as he took over a family business in the automotive industry. And then my mother was a school teacher, so she taught elementary and middle school. And then after my sister and I moved out of the nest, she ended up moving up to Cape Cod and became a college professor for a number of years. So she's a a big educator and have a number of other educators in in my family.
Glenn Harper [:So did your dad, when he worked for the man and then started working for another company more as an entrepreneurial side, is that how you learned to be an entrepreneur, or you get a taste of it, or is that something that it really didn't impact you going up?
Julie Smith [:I see him as selling lemonade on the side of the road
Glenn Harper [:for me. Hustling.
Doug Motley [:I may have done a couple of those, those endeavors. Definitely some some lawn mowing, exercises, and I think a buddy of mine and and I convinced his his mom to pay us a quarter per tree that we chopped down and and turned into firewood. So not not quite high margin business back in the day, but maybe helped us get in better shape.
Glenn Harper [:At the time, it was the best. Right? I mean, you're like, bitch, we're making money. This is great. I mean, then you do the math. You're like, we're gonna be we're gonna have, like, a $100 at the end of the summer.
Doug Motley [:Yep. Exactly. So I I think the entrepreneurial journey for me was a little bit by accident. So I had worked for went into banking out of college, and I remember the day, I worked for a very big international bank. It was 30000, 30000 people, but it got bought by Bank of America, which was 300000 people ballpark. So, you know, totally different, organization. And I was fortunate to be on the transition team where they had a 100 people kind of from each organization come together and during the merger period, figure out how you bring these 2 big operations together. And I remember sitting, in a giant conference room one day where both sides were together, and the acquiring bank, the bigger bank, you know, they had come from out of town.
Doug Motley [:And at 5 o'clock, they all picked up their briefcases and and walked out. And everybody who was, you know, from our organization was kind of scratching our heads, looking at each other, and we're like, what where's everybody going? What it's like halftime. And that was kind of the moment that crystallized for me that the culture was gonna change, that, you know, there was, what was priorities in in the organization that I quote unquote grew up with were gonna be very different in this new organization. And that was the the kind of moment for me where it was, hey. You know, in my infinite wisdom at 25 years old or 26, maybe there's something else out there besides banking. And, had a couple of conversations with a friend. He said, I I have somebody you should meet. I don't know exactly why.
Doug Motley [:He's in real estate investment. I I didn't really even know what that meant. I didn't know what a real estate developer really was. And, so my friend made a connection. The the person I met, we hit it off. He was, you know, a couple years older than me, but had been very successful in the development business. And I learned a little bit, you know, just scratched the surface through those conversations, and we had a meeting of the minds, and that was when I got into real estate, for the first time. And what was so special about that was I knew nothing about real estate.
Doug Motley [:I'd done one thing in real estate. I bought a house, and I did that really poorly. I had gotten a flyer from somebody in my neighborhood in the mailbox that said, hey. Do you wanna buy this house for, you know, $100? And and I walked across the street, and I said, can I buy your house for a $100? No negotiation. No looking at any other house. Nothing. It was just a really bad, process or or uneducated way of going about doing things. But this person took a leap of of faith on me, saw potential in me, and was willing to take that risk.
Doug Motley [:And that idea is something that, you know, I've been fortunate enough to have a series of mentors, a series of champions for me, a series of people that were willing to kind of bet on me. And that's something that is is very important to how I think about what we do today and and how we select our team and and other things I get involved in is, how can I be that person for somebody else who's at that kind of point in their career, point in their life where maybe they just need, you know, a chance? And you gotta find the right, you know, intersection of of opportunity and and aptitude and attitude and and all those things. But I think for most of our entrepreneurs, we can all think of that moment or or those couple moments where somebody's kind of gone out on a limb for us, and that changed the trajectory of of what would happen.
Glenn Harper [:So and so on that note, I wanna go backwards a moment to say to figure out so you went to the, you know, University of Delaware, the Alfred Lerner College of Business and Economics. You got a economics degree. And this university is is pretty impressive, but it has the distinction of being the only, I think, the only land, sea, and space grant university, which is crazy. And and as a fighting blue hen, what was that like, and how did you pick that school? Just because you didn't wanna go away. Most a lot of kids wanna go away. You wanna stay home. Is that the opportunity?
Doug Motley [:Yeah. So for me, it was probably overly analytical, and I ended up doing this with my first job as well. But, you know, looking at what the the options were on the table, and I had one option in the northeast, and I had one option in the southeast, both of which very, you know, acclaimed colleges and universities, but also very expensive. And, yeah, I looked at coming out of out of college and graduating with, you know, somewhere between a $10,200,000 of student loans because I would be kind of paying my own way. And I looked at what my income would probably be on the other side of, you know, coming out of college at the time, you know, somewhere between $40,060,000 probably. And then the the, looking at University of Delaware, I was fortunate enough to get a phone call from a company I'd never heard of, that was had started an education foundation in the state of Delaware, because they had a big presence here. And it was a company called MBNA, which was a credit card, credit card bank. And I went and interviewed for a scholarship and was basically University of Delaware.
Doug Motley [:So University of Delaware for an in state student tuition was much more, you know, attainable, I guess. And I had a big, I was fortunate enough to have a big contribution made through this through winning this scholarship. So, that was a big driver of it for me was the economic or the financial decision related to it. And, you know, it was fantastic.
Glenn Harper [:What was that scholarship based on education, or was it based on athletic?
Doug Motley [:It was not athletic. I've I I played a lot of sports, but I wasn't division 1 caliber in my in my athletics other than maybe being a fan. But, but it was, academic and need and, you know, combination of those things, I guess.
Glenn Harper [:But, like, you gotta be gotta clear there here. We all know the bankers, like, make 1,000,000 of dollars a year. So why would you only limited yourself to 40 to 60 k when you came out knowing you're gonna be a banker? You should be thinking you're gonna make 1,000,000. So what happened with that? Is that is that not true?
Julie Smith [:First, I wanna know how you chose economics.
Doug Motley [:So, that's an interesting, story. So when I was in, high school, I took, I think the PSATs, something like that, and I did pretty well. And it came home one day and I in the mail, I got this flyer from Cornell, and it said, hey, do you wanna come to summer university here for it's for high school students, but you take college classes and get credits. And I had my heart set on living at the beach, and spending the summer with my friends and, you know, working on the beach and just having a a great time. And my mom said, yeah. I think you should look into this. And I said, no. I threw it in the trash.
Doug Motley [:Couple days later, I come home, and my mom is holding one from Harvard. And she says, okay. Well, you know, I think you should take a shot at this. And I said, no. I wanna live at the beach. She said, okay. I'll make you a bet. If you apply and you don't get in, then you can live at the beach.
Doug Motley [:No problem. I'll support you. If you'd if you'd apply and you get in, you have to go. And at the time, I'm thinking, a, no shot of me getting in, and b, no shot of us being able to afford it if if I did. So my mom was one step ahead of me, and, she had figured out how to pay for it if if that were to happen. But, I applied and I got in. And so went up to had a unbelievable experience at Harvard, took a microeconomics class and a calculus class. And we can talk about the calculus class if you want because that really defined a new, level of expectation for me.
Doug Motley [:But, the economics class was amazing. It just sucked me in, and I was so interested in it. And that one, you know, 3 credit hour class was what made me wanna be an econ major.
Glenn Harper [:That's so cool. Your mom, like, as an educator, she's like, I'm gonna bait and switch this guy. He is Yeah. If you knew you'd get in. But, yeah, who who knew that you'd be at, you know, turned on Cornell and get into Harvard? That's that's pretty awesome.
Doug Motley [:Yeah. It was an unbelievable experience for sure. Did you
Julie Smith [:ever did you ever get your summer at the beach?
Doug Motley [:I did. Yes. Yes. And then now I live here. So, you know The
Glenn Harper [:summer of Doug was put on hold.
Julie Smith [:8 it's different at, you know, an older age than 18. Right? So
Glenn Harper [:Yeah. Yeah. So now, you know, you finish up college and and did you have with MBNA, did you have, like, they were they going to offer you a position if you with this scholarship? Was that a caveat to this? Or they just said, hey. We'll pay for this. You won the scholarship. Go do your thing. Maybe we'll talk later. Or did they say, hey.
Glenn Harper [:Look. After year 2, we'll chat. After year 3, we'll chat. How did did they navigate that at all for you? Did you have a path, or you're just in there, you know, playing games and drinking and Yeah.
Doug Motley [:Great question. So, they had it was kinda more of an option, which is a great great way for the the recipient to to look at it was, you know, you had the option or access to being a summer intern there during during your college time. If you were interested in working there during the year, you could talk with whomever you were working, whatever department you were working for in the summer and and possibly work during the year. And then at the end, I think if they liked how you had performed as an intern, if you chose to do that, the doors were more open. And I was fortunate enough to interview for and and get into their management development program. So that was I was looking at something similar at JPMorgan, but ended up choosing MBNA because I had, been fortunate enough to get access to and build some relationships with senior executives at the bank while I was in college. And the, management development program was fantastic. It was, you know, 25 or 30 people, most of them right out of college.
Doug Motley [:And so you're, you know, you're you're very like minded in in your energy and and what you're looking to do and take over the world. And at the same time, you're put into a program that has a lot of structure. It's very rigorous, and you spend a year going through all the different departments of the the bank, which is such an invaluable experience, especially at an organization like that that prioritized and invested so much in the education of of their people. So not only did was the actual content really valuable, but all of the people that I worked with, the camaraderie and and friendships that I built, but also the people that we interacted with moving throughout the bank over that year, working, you know, extremely long hours, but, the relationships that I was able to build, you know, last today, which is really special.
Glenn Harper [:Did you ever just think back and wonder, like, what if you didn't do go there? Like, I mean, how would your life be so different? Like, what you learned, that type of experience and how things were beyond the scenes and meeting the people? I mean, everybody gets that kind of job, but, like, that seems like that's the gold standard. Like, I don't think you could get to God any better than that. Right?
Doug Motley [:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's I was having it's funny. I was having this conversation with somebody the other day, thinking about we have a lot of friends who have kids that are kind of in that college choosing decision process right now. And so, you know, comes up, oh, if you were gonna do it again, what would you have done? And my default, you know, leans a little bit while the southeast is a pretty dynamic and exciting place to be with great football on Saturdays and and all that. But, you know, thinking through what the other routes would have led me to, it's hard to see how they could have led me to where I am today, which I'm so, you know, pleased, proud, excited to be doing, what I do today and have accomplished what I've accomplished so far. And really what, you know, is on the runway ahead is is really exciting. So, wouldn't really trade it for anything.
Glenn Harper [:So now you live in I've gonna try to pronounce this Rehoboth. Is that right? Rehoboth. The heart Rehoboth Beef, Delaware. I feel like I'm Tyson talking. 2,011 5 star rated water quality award by the NRDC as well as the Dogfish Head Brewery Flagship Brewpub. It's hard to fathom that you were live in a place that the city is only 1.6 square miles, 1.2 of land, 1100 residents, and you get 12,700,000 visitors from Washington DC every summer. How did how did you pick the beach town of Roboth? I it just seems interesting that you would pick that. Like Seemingly
Julie Smith [:destined to be at the beach with the age of beach.
Glenn Harper [:Said beach, but, like, that beach in particular seems like that would be a very challenging one to get in on.
Doug Motley [:Sure. So, there's a small town. Basically, Delaware has 11 miles of Atlantic coastline. So the northernmost point of that is a town called Lewis, and the southernmost is a town called Fenwick Island. And then there's a whole, you know, 5 or 6 different towns along that stream. So just south of Rehoboth is a town called Dewey Beach, which now has kind of become more of a, it's got a little bit more of nightlife and and more energy to it. But, my family going way back had a place in Dewey to, like, 19 forties or something. So when I was growing up as a kid, I spent all my summers in Dewey Beach.
Doug Motley [:And so when life circumstances circle back around where I had the opportunity through meeting the the person that I mentioned earlier who I got connected to in real estate, and I could get a professional job living at the beach. It didn't take a whole lot of arm twisting for me. So, Rehoboth has has become a very, exciting and dynamic place itself. President Biden has a house here and has for a long time. So, you know, when he visits, it's it's a whole, you know, new set of circumstances we have to navigate through. But it's really from a growth standpoint, it's been prolific over the last 15 years, as Delaware is a very favorable tax, state. So and then we don't have any sales tax. The income tax is is favorable, particularly for retirees, and our property taxes are a fraction of what all of the neighboring states are.
Doug Motley [:So it's a very attractive place. I was just at a conference yesterday and the FDIC said, Delaware is number 2, I think in the country last year for in migration, per capita. So we're a net importer of people, and that's really one of the benefits that we've been able to tap into on the real estate side, but Rehoboth generally is, my office is 2 blocks from the beach, we have a wonderful boardwalk, the amount of great restaurants is is staggering for the amount of people we have. So it's really a special place to be. It's a place that, you know, I love calling home. There's a lot of outdoor activities to do, and and it's just a magnet for really high quality people who are are great friends.
Julie Smith [:So with that much tourism, though, like, in the winter, is it really quiet, or is it still going is the people coming in and out still happening?
Doug Motley [:That's a great question, and it's changed so much over the last 2 decades. So, you know, the town I mentioned, Dewey Beach, 15 years ago, the lights would blink, you know, after Labor Day through until until the spring. And, now 10 years ago, 5 years ago, it all started to change. And then now all of these places are open year round and it's very we have a lot more year round residents than we did 15 or 20 years ago, which has really supported the business growth and, and all of the tourism and all those things. So it's really a neat place. I'll give you an example is there's so many festivals and things that the towns put on as we go into the kind of quote unquote off season. But around Halloween, the city of Rehoboth puts on a parade called the the sea witch parade, and this has been going on for years, but, it's a small town parade. And last year, I think there was 70,000 people that show up for this thing.
Doug Motley [:So think of you you said earlier the population is 1100 or whatever it may be. Now close your eyes and imagine 70,000 people overlaid on top of that, and it's just it's really cool to see, and it's such a special place to be, but I haven't really run across anything else that's quite like it.
Julie Smith [:So I personally am I'm curious. Do you get sick of the influx of people? Like, you're you're like, okay. I I can do these 1100 people in this small amount of area, and then all of a sudden, there's 70,000, a 100 whatever the case is.
Glenn Harper [:One more tourist. One more.
Julie Smith [:Is there a point where you're like, okay. I just I would like to go to the grocery store and, you know what I mean? Like, or something, you know?
Doug Motley [:I don't feel that way. I I look at it as we're fortunate that we have seasons, and the seasons are not just the climate. The seasons are also the amount of people that are around and and the energy that comes with all that. So, you know, kinda walking through the calendar, the the winter time, January, February is probably the, you know, the most dreary just from a climate standpoint, you know, 33 in gray kind of thing. But as you get into March, St. Patrick's Day is kind of when the the tourism and the hospitality energy really starts. And so particularly if we catch a sunny St. Patrick's Day, it's buzzing around town and all the people in the hospitality industry, the, you know, servers at restaurants, bartenders, everybody really just starts to feed off that energy, which sets off for the whole spring.
Doug Motley [:So the spring is, not all that busy, but everything's open and fully functioning, and you can be outside, you can do all the things that, that are really great about living here. And then you're looking forward to the summer when there's an influx of people, a whole different set of energy in terms of, you know, restaurants and bars and, and everything kind of, just is, is really, really energetic. And then the fall, you have a lot of those people go away. Now we still have a nice base of activity, but the weather's still nice, the water's still warm, so you get to enjoy some of those things that maybe were a little busier in the summer, in a different way. And then the winter is pretty special with a lot of things that happen around the holidays, here. So I kinda think of it as it's it's part of the changing of the seasons.
Glenn Harper [:Mhmm.
Doug Motley [:But, you know, as it relates connecting that to what I do on the real estate side is some of what we do is development in a fair amount of that is in close proximity to where we are. And so we think a lot about how do we how do we develop certain projects in a way that's beneficial or accretive to the community. We've been here for a long time, we plan on being here for a long time. So that's an important part of of what we do in thinking about transportation, thinking about, you know, what elements, commercial elements may be underserved or undersupplied here that we can add or bring. And so we think about how can the things that we do from an investment perspective actually help make this a better place to live.
Glenn Harper [:I suspect at all his favorite places, he's probably a parking that says parking for Doug. In that way, he doesn't care about the other people coming in town because he's always got a parking spot. So so the segue then is you had kinda normal upbringing, did your thing, worked a little bit, had gotta go to college, had a great opportunity to do that. You're working for the man, and then all of a sudden, you get an introduction from what you said earlier. Hey. Let's talk about real estate. You know, did you just jump right into the real estate thing and quit your job, or did you do that in the basement, in the garage, in the attic? How did you make that transition, quote, real job to being hang your own shingle and doing your thing?
Doug Motley [:Okay. So, I I jumped right in, meaning I I left banking and I went into real estate development working as an employee.
Glenn Harper [:Yes.
Doug Motley [:Well, I, you know, I had a job. I was working for a comp a smaller company. So it went from 30,000 people to 30 people, and there's 30 people who wore flip flops and shorts every day. Probably took me 6 months to stop wearing a suit, but eventually, I I did. But that was such a a special experience because I was learning everything about real estate development, you know, coming from a base of nothing to, also learning the entrepreneurial side of things. And I was fortunate in the person that I worked for, just to give you an idea, the first day that I started, he went on he went, to work remotely, I'll put it, for 2 months. And so I was starting, and my responsibilities were financial modeling and financial planning and and forecasting for the real estate development portfolio that they had. Well, I didn't know how that any of that worked.
Doug Motley [:So I just locked myself in a clock in a in an office, not a closet. I locked myself in an office for 2 months and just learned how to I ripped apart their existing models and just learned how money moved and kinda taught myself how to do it. And then 4 months later, the CFO left, and I was the only person, you know, I got tapped to step into that role. So it was definitely a trial by fire, sink or swim, whatever cliche you wanna use, but it was one of those things of heads. It's here for the taking if you want it, but you're really gonna have to try and figure it out.
Glenn Harper [:So is that, you know, that skill set to just take on more responsibility, learn it on yourself, you know, just self learn it, and do something really, really hard, did is that something that came from working at the bank prior to to dig into projects, or is this just who you are growing up? You're like, oh, I'm gonna see that. I'm gonna attack it. How did you know, that that's a big most people would probably not make that choice. They would probably just coast and do their thing. For you to make that decision to really learn it, how did you come up with that?
Doug Motley [:That's a that's an unbelievable question. I don't think anybody's ever asked even come close to asking me anything in that neighborhood. Wow. Off the cuff, I'd say, you know, some of the thinking about growing up and playing sports and things like that, I was definitely somebody who sought out challenges. But in terms of the problem solving thing, I think I really learned that through my internships at at MBNA when I was actually in college. So it was, you know, going into a new department, and being tasked to do something. And I remember teaching myself how to write SQL, the coding language to build a database. And I knew that we needed to create this database, and I was told, hey, go create this, but I didn't really know how to get there.
Doug Motley [:So I spent a couple weeks trying to figure it out and figured it out and ultimately accomplished what I needed to. So I I guess it's having a clear clear sense of what the objective is, and then figuring out, like, failure is not an option. Figuring out how to accomplish that outcome, and that kind of mentality probably can be applied to a lot of the things I've run into in my in my life.
Glenn Harper [:I'd imagine probably some of that just being curious.
Doug Motley [:And Yeah.
Julie Smith [:But I think just to build on that, I think what we see in a lot of entrepreneurs, especially the successful ones, as you just said something very key is failure is not an option. That was never on the table. So I bet there were a lot of times where you quote unquote failed, but you pivoted. So, like, failure wasn't an option. So if it didn't work, that's great. We're just gonna move on to the next thing. And I think that's such a characteristic of, you know, successful entrepreneurs.
Doug Motley [:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe maybe a better way to phrase that is, I'm going to achieve that outcome. Now it may take me a whole a bunch of different iterations to get there, and that's okay. And I'll learn from them, and I'll, you know, iterate on them to to get better and get closer to that outcome, but I'm I'm getting to that outcome or beyond.
Glenn Harper [:You know, it's it's it's always funny the drive that an entrepreneur has that just there's just not a quit in them. Like, no. We're gonna do this, and they don't they don't really care. Like, they're it's like, they can't not do it. Like, if it's sitting there, we're gonna go attack that today, and that's just the way it's gonna be. And that mentality is just so unique to entrepreneurs. It's not necessarily in other industries, you know, working for the man or whatever. Some at the higher levels, they probably have it.
Glenn Harper [:But, boy, it's a unique trait for entrepreneurs. And you and, again, you you think that it was just, again, the drive to do that, that just who you are, you just recognize that at a young age, or is it something that's developed? I I'm trying to figure that out.
Julie Smith [:I have a I have a hypothesis
Glenn Harper [:Alright.
Julie Smith [:Just listening to you. And I think the family culture environment that you're brought into, I don't think failure was an option. I think your parents said, if you're gonna do something, you're going to do it well. We aren't going to like, just listening to, like, your mom. Your mom's like, you can go to Harvard. Why are you not gonna like, that's what you are. That's what you like, that's what you've achieved. Why would you not go do it? And, oh, by the way, like, our family, this part of it, we'll figure it out.
Julie Smith [:You've gotta go. You gotta you're gonna cut down trees. You're gonna go do this. You're not gonna spend it at the beach. We want what's best. What how do we bring out the best in you? And I'm guessing that's you, that's a little bit of your genetics. Right? Because it sounds like your parents kind of had that in them as well, but I also believe or think based on, you know, just listening to you, that that was instilled in you just in your upbringing. Your parents were like, we're not we're not failing.
Julie Smith [:Right? You just said, you know, whatever it is. Like, there's the goal. We're going. We're gonna get it done. Doug, you are you coming? You know? And so I think a little I think it's a little bit of both.
Doug Motley [:That is, super perceptive. I I think the one, you know, angle of that I'd hit is, and this is probably getting a little psychiatrist or or whatever on patching some of the the mentality of it here. But I think an an element of that is also some people close to my family had the potential and fail, like, had the potential and just let it go to waste. And I saw that and was aware of it and was like, I'm that's not going to happen to me. So I think it's a combination of what you just described, Julie, in the in the awesome environment and and encouragement that I was fortunate to have, but also being eyes wide open and aware of seeing people who had potential and not capturing it and just almost taking offense to that or just saying that's I'm not gonna let that be me. So the combination of those two things, I think, is is probably a big innate element of this.
Glenn Harper [:Because, you know, as entrepreneurs, again, which we're just just we just do it. We don't know why we just do it, and it's always interesting to find out what really makes people tick or why they made that certain decision that got them down the particular path they're on. And once they got down the path, like, this is really effing hard. I got this. I'm gonna do it anyway. And and for our listeners that listen, you know, a lot of the entrepreneurs are just, like, it's a lonely place to be, And to make those decisions and work that hard that nobody there's no accolades. Nobody cares. You just gotta go do it anyway.
Glenn Harper [:It takes a special person. And so that's just the introspective looking at yourself and saying, this is who I am. This is what I wanna do, and I'm just gonna do it. I don't care what anybody says.
Julie Smith [:A little
Glenn Harper [:bit of
Julie Smith [:bulldozer mentality. I well, you
Glenn Harper [:might have to crush people, but you can definitely get where you need to to get there. In your in your company now, you know, we always like to figure out, like, it's probably morphed a 100,000,000,000 times, so what you first started at to do, you know, when you were at working for this company, you came to see if and then is this where you then took over the company, or did you start your own company? How did that progress?
Doug Motley [:Yeah. So that was what I described earlier was kind of my journey in the beginning of entrepreneurship and and came into real estate in 2006. And for anybody who's familiar
Glenn Harper [:with
Doug Motley [:real estate Big
Glenn Harper [:time.
Doug Motley [:It was unbelievable timing. So was in the especially in the finance chair through 06, 07, 08, and particularly in this local market, it was extremely challenging, but unbelievably educating for me. It's kind of like one of those great depression moments. I I liken it to, you know, going having dinner with my grandmother who lived during the great depression, and she was a tiny woman, you know, maybe a £100 soaking wet, but she would eat everything on her plate. And I'm, Grammy, why are you doing that? Well, because I when I grew up, you know, you didn't know when you're gonna eat next, and sometimes it might be a couple days. Well, I like in, you know, what we went through in the GFC and when I was sitting in that in that chair to that experience of something I will never forget as it relates to how I think about investing in real estate. And fortunately, I guess, you know, I wasn't in a position where I had made any of those investment decisions. I didn't have, you know, my personal net worth or or any of, you know, significant amounts of my money at risk at that time.
Doug Motley [:So it was an unbelievable learning experience. That was kind of the catalyst to that exposure to entrepreneurship was the catalyst to starting my own business, in 2009 with a couple partners to buy distressed office assets coming out of the GFC. So I saw all of the things going bad and said, hey. If you had a clean balance sheet and a lot of capital, you could make a lot of money buying things right now. And so stood up first company then, that was very successful in terms of investment performance. We didn't raise a ton of capital, so it wasn't giant, but it was a great kind of first step into, you know, entrepreneurship as it relates to it's it's me and and my partners, you know, being responsible. Shortly thereafter, backed in a close friend in starting another company that we successfully exited a couple years ago, also in real estate and commercial construction. And then in 2011 was when we started JLAM, and that was, really the the company that has been the the what, you know, my entrepreneurial journey has been the past 14, 13 years now.
Glenn Harper [:Yeah. So you're saying you saw an opportunity and you took it, and you learned what not to do from watching everybody else. And you're like, I can do this better. Hence we hang our shingle up.
Doug Motley [:Yep. And then over the course of the last 13 years, you know, real estate is a cyclical business. And so we very carefully built our business to be agile, and we're never gonna be the, you know, mega $1,000,000,000 fund that can compete with the Blackstones, but where we can compete is in agility and kind of our surgical sharpshooter kind of expertise. And that's how we've built our business to be able to pivot to as the market opportunities change. We're gonna go to where the best ideas are and where we can capture the best, you know, investment performance and deliver the best, you know, outcomes for all of our stakeholders.
Glenn Harper [:Are you more of a a a a, you know, identify, acquire, fix up, and then milk the properties, or you buy, acquire, you know, rehab, and then turn them over and flip them?
Doug Motley [:Is it
Glenn Harper [:or is it a combination of both?
Doug Motley [:It depends. It depends on the market conditions and and where we see the best opportunity. So we've we've done yes is the short answer. We've done all of that, and it really depends on how we see the best way to, make the best risk adjusted return.
Julie Smith [:Is that initial person that kind of introduced you to this? Is that still one of your partners today?
Doug Motley [:The first person I came to work with in real estate? No. But, interestingly, one of they're a competitor of ours, but we're good friends personally. And, one of their affiliates is our one of our biggest customers for one of our divisions of our business. So, very, very strong, good relationship, and just, fortunate to have have crossed paths at the time when I did, and I think we both say we're in great spots now.
Glenn Harper [:Well, it's always fun to have, somebody respect to be your competitor to keep you on your toes. Right? If not, it's soft and lazy, and we can't have that.
Doug Motley [:Absolutely.
Glenn Harper [:How how long in your into your journey did you you know, most entrepreneurs, they do it all. They do everything. Right? They're they're wearing all the hats. How long did it take you to realize that, hey, I I cannot do this all. I have to outsource or hire other people or and build a team. How long did it take you to make that transition, on your I guess, be your second iteration?
Doug Motley [:Yeah. So with our current company and and actually with the prior ones, I've been fortunate to have a great partner, and close dear friend, Nick, who actually I worked with and met back in 2001 when we started working at the at MBNA. So we work together in management development, and today we're and he lives 5 houses down from me, and we're business partners in everything we do, and it's it's really a special relationship. So from the beginning, I've had somebody there that I've been high fiving victories, you know, with on our on our wins and, commiserating challenges as we face those, but somebody there to experience it with. So that's been fantastic. But as I think about our journey from 2011, when we started JLAM to to now, and we have, you know, dozen or so employees, it was probably 5 years in, until we really started hiring people. And that was when we made the intentional decision of we can keep growing at the pace that we're growing, or we can really grow, you know, accelerate the pace of this, and the only way to do that is to stop doing certain things ourselves. And so, you know, we found ourselves going to every meeting together and we're, you know, literally would spend all day together in various meetings and everything, and it was very effective, but just not scalable.
Doug Motley [:You could do 1 or 2 projects at a time, and that may be great if that's what you wanted, but that wasn't what we were aspiring for. So that was when we were started becoming very intentional about how we were going to grow. Through that process, you know, 3 or 4 years in kind of hit, I I personally felt we were not growing fast enough or, or we weren't being effective in achieving what we're trying to to, to do. So I sought out a coach and, you know, was able to find somebody who was an unbelievable resource for me. And he really helped me strip out the noise, figure out the things that were most important, prioritize, and and really, turbocharge our growth. And so when I look back over the last, you know, the last 5 years, we've been able to really increase the that the curve in terms of, how we've been able to to serve our customers.
Julie Smith [:So we like to talk a lot about peaks and valleys on this podcast because that's just where entrepreneurship is, right, no matter what you look at. So as you not the last 5 years, but the the years before that before you kind of hit that breaking point, Talk me through some of those valleys that you were in that, you know, maybe some of those lessons that our listeners can go, oh, I've been there. Thank you.
Doug Motley [:Yeah. So, I guess the first one was our our first investment under this company. We found what we thought was a great project, and this is in 2011. And so you could have the best investment in the world, but trying to raise capital was unbelievably challenging. It was very hard. So it took us the better part of a year to raise our first $12,000,000 to do this, this first investment. And we had a certain amount of, of, seed capital, so to speak, operating funds to pay. I needed, you know, money to pay my rent or my mortgage to put food on the table, and my partner, Nick, the same thing.
Doug Motley [:So we had a certain amount of seed capital to get there, and we were starting to see the end of that. You know, we're running low on that, and we're like, this has to work. Otherwise, we're throwing this whole thing in the trash and going back to work for the man, I guess, you know? And so that that creates a sense of urgency, you know, a a a sense where you've gotta succeed. And fortunately, we're able to get that done and, you know, success breeds success, and the first one's always the hardest. And, but the first one always takes twice as long and costs twice as much as you think it's going to. But once we got that done, we started to build momentum, and and now, you know, we raise orders of magnitude of that amount of capital for projects in, you know, less than a month. So, it's really changed. So, you know, that was a a very early on valley.
Doug Motley [:And then, you know, we've had certainly had some other challenges along the way where I can't think of anything specifically at the moment, but, I'd say another was where I'd mentioned that we were involved in a commercial construction company and a in another venture or 2. And there was a point, this is probably 5 years ago ish, where some of those other things were taking up a lot of mind space. You know, they weren't necessarily taking up a lot of workload, or or time in my day, but just everything I was doing that something about one of those companies was always hanging, you know, in the back of my mind. And the root cause of that was the way we structured those, the the partnership kind of side of things, the risk return wasn't really aligned with, you know, the operating partner versus us as, as the kind of more capital partners. And so you have this anxiety, you have this thing hanging over you, and it really distracts you from your core business even if it's not like competing meetings or something, but it's just taking up mind space. And that was one of the things that my coach literally in the first meeting after I'm describing things. He's like, okay. Well, you clearly have to get out of this.
Doug Motley [:And I was like, how did I not see that? You know? And I had other people tell me that before, but sometimes I guess you just have to pay somebody to tell you for it to, you know, matter to you. But so that was, you know, that was a big thing of figuring out how to successfully exit that partnership where the person other person involved was a dear friend of mine, but it was just a killer for our our main core business. And as you start to strip that stuff away, that was another thing that really, a, just from I I probably started standing up, you know, an inch or 2 taller, like, just from a physical, you know, well-being standpoint. It really changed, you know, how I went through my day, and it also changed how effective both Nick and I were in what we're trying to accomplish in our core business.
Glenn Harper [:Sometimes you just gotta say no. Right? Yeah.
Julie Smith [:It's hard.
Glenn Harper [:At the beginning, you just gotta say yes to everybody. Do you have a, this is gonna be a fun question here. But do you have, like, the dream real estate deal that you'd like to put together? I mean, we can change the names and places to protect the, you know, uninformed, but, like, is there, like, this dream that, like, man, if we could just get that one, it would be great because we have an idea for one that you could do. Okay.
Julie Smith [:Well I have several. Yeah.
Doug Motley [:I'm all ears. We we love being creative and and trying things that, that others may not have, but we're actually working on one that'll start in the next 6 months that has been underway for, you know, under design for a really long time, and we're super excited about bringing it together, but, it's kind of a combination of a, I'll call it a retail center, but it's not a strip center like you would, you would think of. It's, it's really, we started this before COVID, but really leans into some of the things that I think have really proliferated is it's a combination of, you know, restaurants are the anchor, so to speak, but we've brought in place of parking or a lot of parking, we've brought a lot of green spaces to them. So the restaurants kind of flow out into these common areas that then connect to little bits of kind of pocket parks, but then also connect to more restaurants. So you have this group of 4 or 5 restaurants that all create this activated really neat space where people can kind of move from one to the other. And then that flows into some of the more daily service shops and, and a big, a large scale kind of farmer's market type, type facility. And the way this is all set up, it's extremely walkable, it's all activated, it's a place where you actually want to, you may not know where you want to go eat, you're just going to go there and figure it out. And it's all walkable to a lot of the communities we've developed over the years.
Doug Motley [:So there's a couple thousand homes that are very walkable to this. And then we've paired that with, here in, in the beach environment, you know, there was a lot of beach cottages of, of yesteryear that have been kind of the next generation has come in and, and built larger single family homes. And so we've taken some of the inspiration from those beach cottages, and we're creating a, a cottage style community. So it's about a 100 cottages, which will be 1, 2, and 3 bedroom cottages, pretty relatively high end, but very, again, very walkable, not really car centric, and they're gonna be operated like, you know, annual rental, so like an apartment. But everybody's got their own space, their own porch, their own backyard that's fenced in for the pets. And the combination of those two things we think is gonna just be so special and so really cool. The architecture, you know, there's so many details that go into the planning and design of these things, but, yeah, it's something that doesn't exist anywhere in this market, and we're really proud and excited about being able to bring something like that to, to the community.
Glenn Harper [:It sounds like this is, like, in your bios and things that, you know, it's it's about making, like, a mini community that that's like a destination to go to that people live in, and they can go and stay there instead of traveling all over the place. So that's that sounds awesome. What what we're trying to figure out is we've got this conundrum here in Cleveland, which is just north of us with the Brown Stadium. And we, a die hard Brown fans, like it being on the lake. Well, they wanna build it by the airport, which is nowhere close to the lake. Mhmm. But we need somebody to go in and and lean on them and try to build this concept they have at the airport on the coast of the Great Lake Erie. So I don't know if you're gonna get into that or not, but I think it's a great project.
Doug Motley [:We are looking at a couple projects that have to do with minor league, minor league sports because they've been a great catalyst for rejuvenating towns and and cities. Great. But, yeah, I'm I'm a big believer in the most special sports facilities today are the ones that are, in the cities, in the towns. And
Glenn Harper [:Yes.
Doug Motley [:Yeah. I I absolutely agree.
Glenn Harper [:Somebody who's listening is better bring it to the commissioners since that's what we gotta do.
Julie Smith [:So I have one last question. Well, actually, I have 2.
Glenn Harper [:Yep. Yep.
Julie Smith [:The first one is, what is your superpower?
Doug Motley [:Wow. That's a great question. I don't know if I have the ego to call anything a superpower. But
Julie Smith [:When you walk into a meeting or you you walk into these, you know, you have these investors or these developers, What do you bring to the table that's different than anyone else there?
Doug Motley [:So I think I'm well, I know I'm a very analytical person, but I think where I can separate myself is being able to combine the science with the art. So being able to combine the numbers with the actual emotion of a real estate project or how you might feel there, and then be able to translate that to somebody who may be considering investing, but knows nothing about real estate. And being able to I guess it comes down to communication and being able to communicate a very complex concept in a way that people can understand, but still represents what's actually happening in that concept. And I think that's, very applicable to kind of anything. It's not nuance to real estate.
Julie Smith [:I think you have the ability to pivot really quick. So you just were like, I can do this and this and this and this, and then I can go have this. So, like, you have the ability just in your mind, I think, to pivot very quickly based on where you are, what you're doing.
Glenn Harper [:And who you're talking.
Julie Smith [:If I could interpret what you just said.
Glenn Harper [:And who you're talking. Yeah.
Julie Smith [:What one last question, and it is, what is your end game?
Glenn Harper [:You're supposed to study for this. I don't know what's going on here.
Julie Smith [:They're hard questions.
Glenn Harper [:They are.
Doug Motley [:These are you you guys are fantastic at this. So my end game.
Glenn Harper [:Besides sitting on a beach, we we already know that.
Julie Smith [:All summer.
Doug Motley [:Yeah. I I think it's to leave the things I touch in a better place than where they were before before, I touched them. And so for me, that means, you know, our investors put simply have more money than they did before I before they got involved with me. For for me, it's the communities where we actually develop a project. It's better after we're we're done there, and the people who live there are happy and proud to be a part of it. For the the commercial projects we invest in or that we do that, you know, we might take something that's blighted and turn it into, you know, rejuvenated property that that people are proud to have in their in their neighborhood or in their city or town. So with all those things, it's it's it comes back to that. I I think that idea of pride, and and it's doing being proud of the things that I've touched.
Julie Smith [:That was a phenomenal answer. But if I could wrap it up in a bow, there is no end game. You're not gonna stop touching things. You don't have it in you to not make it better. And, you know, even I think if you spend your summers on the beach, I think you're gonna make the beach a better place and the community around the beach a better place. And so for that, we can't wait to see what you do in the future.
Glenn Harper [:You're stuck as an entrepreneur. You know too much. Why would you ever stop? You might do a little bit different, but you're always gonna continue to see things through different lens and bring the value to those neighborhoods and projects, I would suspect.
Doug Motley [:Yeah. I think that's that's right. That's the that's the goal.
Glenn Harper [:Well, Doug, we're at that point, unfortunately. I could talk to you for hours here, but, you wanna give a a plug to your businesses in case somebody wants to get a hold of you?
Doug Motley [:Sure. So, I'm managing principal of of Jackalingo Asset Management or JLAM. You can find me on LinkedIn, Doug Motley. And our website is www.jlamre.com.
Julie Smith [:I think you have a book on your horizon too. I feel like you're gonna you're gonna get all of that's up there and and get it out into a book for for everybody to read too.
Doug Motley [:Yeah. That'd be cool. I wrote a chapter this year of Yeah.
Julie Smith [:I knew it.
Doug Motley [:I did a TEDx talk, and I, had to write a chapter about that experience as worth going into it. So that was a pretty fun experience.
Glenn Harper [:Make sure you put some pictures in those books so we can all read it. It's very important.
Doug Motley [:Absolutely.
Glenn Harper [:Well, Doug, it's a pleasure having you on this show. I I think our listeners are gonna find some value in this, and we appreciate you being here. This is the Empowering Entrepreneurs podcast. I'm Glenn Harper.
Julie Smith [:Julie Smith. Thank you.
Glenn Harper [:That was great. Appreciate you being on the show. I hope that was fun.
