In this episode of Behind the Bob, Carrie-Ann Wade is in conversation with Ranjeet Kaile about life as a communications director and some of the highlights and challenges of his career to date. Ranjeet is the Executive Director of Communications and Engagement for South East London Integrated Care Partnership and for South London and The Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust.

From his desire to work for the police service, through to the various opportunities he has grasped throughout his career in public sector communications, it is clear that Ranjeet is focused on creating positive impacts for the communities he works in. We talk about the various and diverse work you can get involved in as a public sector comms pro, and some of Ranjeet's highlights such as the South London Listens programme.

We cover the challenges and opportunities that COVID-19 and managing comms through a pandemic has presented to our profession, alongside working out which team or teams you are part of when you take that step up into a leadership role.

And we also get to hear Ranjeet's thoughts on his hugely successful work supporting the communications trainee programme in the NHS, something many of our guests in the first series of the podcast name checked him for.

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Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed listening please share it, leave a rating or a review.

New episodes of Behind the Bob are published every Wednesday and you can always subscribe via your favourite podcast platform to ensure you don't miss an episode.

You can find out more about Carrie-Ann and Cat's Pajamas Communications at www.cats-pajamas.co.uk

Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director

Welcome to Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director with Carrie-Ann Wade.

This podcast is all about developing communications leaders of the future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career. You’ll hear from Carrie-Ann about her own personal experiences and insights and there might even be a special guest or two popping up.

The first series focused on diversity in the communications profession and how to create more opportunities for people to see communications as a profession they would like to work in. The second series explores the lives of communications directors to help inspire and support communications leaders of the future.

Behind the Bob gives you a sneak peek into life as a comms director and provides you with all the "behind the scenes" knowledge to help you thrive as a communications leader.

Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed listening please share it, leave a rating or a review. It really does help the podcast reach more communicators!

New episodes of Behind the Bob are published on Wednesdays and you can always subscribe via your favourite podcast platform to ensure you don't miss an episode.

You can find out more about Carrie-Ann and Cat's Pajamas Communications at www.cats-pajamas.co.uk

Speaker: 00:00:03

Carrie-Ann Wade: Welcome to Behind the Bob, Diary of a Comms Director with

Speaker: 00:00:07

me, Carrie-Ann Wade.

Speaker: 00:00:08

This

Speaker: 00:00:08

Carrie-Ann Wade: podcast is all about developing communications leaders

Speaker: 00:00:11

of the future and supporting you to grow and thrive in your comms career.

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You'll hear from me about my experiences and insights, and there might even

Speaker: 00:00:19

be a special guest or two popping up.

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So I hope you enjoy.

Speaker: 00:00:29

Hello listeners and welcome to this episode of Behind the Bob.

Speaker: 00:00:33

I'm absolutely delighted to be joined by Ranjeet Kaile.

Speaker: 00:00:37

Ranjeet, do you want to introduce yourself?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:00:41

Thank you so much, Carrie-Ann, for having me.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:00:43

I'm Ranjeet Kaile.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:00:44

I'm Director of Communications at South East London Integrated Care Board and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:00:48

also Director of Communications for South London, the Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:00:52

So thanks for having me, Carrie-Ann.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:00:54

Carrie-Ann Wade: So I feel like we've got two for the price of one, and I'm sure

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:00:57

we'll talk about the challenges of being a communications director across two

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:02

very big organisations and partnerships.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:04

So I'm excited to hear about that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:06

And thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:09

I feel like I've known you for a really long time.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:12

I don't know how many years it is.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:14

But as I was thinking about this conversation, I thought most of the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:19

chats that we ever have, Ranjeet, are always like really forward thinking.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:22

And they're always about like, what can we do better?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:26

What can we do next?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:27

Like, what's life in comms going to look like into the future and I realised

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:31

that actually I don't know very much about your career before I met you so

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:36

I'm quite excited to hear a little bit about your communications career today

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:41

and maybe even pre comms and how you've decided that communications was the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:46

profession for you so would you mind telling us a little bit more about that?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:51

Yeah, absolutely.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:52

And yeah, we shouldn't say how long we've known each other because

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:54

that would give away our age, but it feels like a long time.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:01:58

I I'm very lucky because I'm one of those people who genuinely loves what

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:03

I do and I think that's been fantastic and I'm also really lucky because

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:08

when I studied for my first degree, it was in, in business and marketing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:14

So I always knew that I wanted to be able to work in some form

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:18

of industry where we could like communicate, make some difference.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:21

But the reality was just in the how what was that going to look like?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:23

And there was some of the big agencies that I thought I'd

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:27

end up working my career in.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:30

But I realised actually calling was about how can I work in a public sector

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:35

environment and I originally wanted to work for the police but I'll

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:38

tell you a little bit about that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:39

But my career journey, basically after I graduated, I was

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:43

looking for a marketing job.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:45

And I did a couple of temporary stints as many of us do working

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:48

in a company that's no longer in existence, Nortel Networks, telephony.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:52

I worked for a couple of other companies in the marketing

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:55

departments but the most interesting thing I did was stuff envelopes.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:02:59

And then I got my big break when I worked for London Borough of Hounslow

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:03

as a marketing assistant working for their adult education department.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:07

And I did that in the early 2000s.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:09

And for me, that was like the eye opener of what a difference I could make because

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:14

we were trying to get people from really diverse backgrounds into further learning.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:19

And and it was trying to get people to not just, do the sort of Reiki healing

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:24

courses, but much more about English for speakers of other languages, things that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:28

would make a difference to their lives.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:31

And I was really taken aback by the opportunity that we have in these

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:34

roles, especially in public sector to make such a significant difference.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:39

And I was also struck by working in.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:41

The public sector, how we can get involved.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:45

Our scope can be huge, right?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:47

It can be absolutely massive if we get in on and do our core job,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:50

but actually we can then suddenly start to organize festivals, we

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:54

can do sponsorship campaigns, we can do lots of other opportunities.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:03:58

That gave me a real good inspiration to then try and do more.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:02

And I then as a young man, took a chance to go and apply for a

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:07

job at London Borough of Lambeth.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:09

And I'll never forget, I I didn't get a job.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:11

I didn't get a job the first time round.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:13

And I was broken hearted, and I was like, oh, I could definitely do this.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:17

But I didn't.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:17

I got some good feedback.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:19

So I stayed at London Borough of Hounslow for another year.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:21

And then the job came back up at London Borough of Lambeth.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:24

And I called up the manager and said, do you think I should apply again?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:27

And they were like, absolutely come and apply.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:29

And thankfully I got the role there.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:30

And I was working in the education department, as it was.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:34

And we were working on a number of programs around providing access and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:38

some of the things I still remember was called Blue Bag, which is about getting

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:42

getting information out to local schools.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:45

But then you might recall there was a Victoria Climbie death that took place,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:49

this tragic death of a young girl.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:51

And through the Every Child Matters government mandate, there was a,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:04:56

an agreement to merge the education and the social services departments.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:02

And that form the children, young people services.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:05

So that was a major change, which ultimately meant that we could

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:08

really work closer together.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:09

And I then saw actually comes from a strategic perspective has a role to play

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:14

in terms of bringing people into this new vision and understanding we have to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:19

modernize and do things differently if we don't want another Victoria Climbie

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:25

and then we then moved on to still at Lambeth we then moved on to doing a

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:31

campaign called We Need Schools, which was around trying to change the school

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:35

stock at Lambeth because it was all Victorian estate and really dilapidated.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:41

And we were successful in lobbying for 220 million pounds.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:44

And then I led that communication stakeholder engagement program, but I

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:47

think that was right about 2005, 2006.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:50

And I was really proud that actually we could invest in the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:53

schools, make a massive difference fundamentally to young people's lives.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:05:57

And then I started to work in the corporate element of of London Borough of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:01

Lambeth took on a slightly bigger role.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:03

And then I moved on to working in the NHS.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:08

Carrie-Ann Wade: And that's where we met.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:10

Exactly.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:11

Exactly.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:11

That's right.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:12

Yeah, so I then, yeah, just worked in Sussex Partnership

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:16

which was a mental health trust.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:18

For a number of years and did a various number of stints in,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:22

in depart Department of Health.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:24

And then I came back to London in 2013 and have been here ever

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:28

since because it's, it is great.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:30

There's so many things to get involved in and to be able to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:32

like, have an impact in comms.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:34

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:35

. Do you know what's really struck me as you've been speaking is so much

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:38

of what you've said about every part of your career to date has

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:41

been about impact and that desire, but also that knowledge, that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:46

The role that you do can have a huge impact for other people and I think

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:50

sometimes if you don't work in the communications profession, you don't

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:54

realize that, comms plays such an important role in being able to have that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:06:58

positive impact for, for communities, for workforce, whatever the group of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:03

stakeholders might be like without good comms, you're not going to have

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:08

the impact that you want to have.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:10

You, you're absolutely spot on, right?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:12

Carrie-Ann, because the reality is that we can do wonderful

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:15

campaigns that look glorious and they have that they're out there.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:20

You've got a poster up on a massive billboard or social media campaign,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:23

but fundamentally good ask questions.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:25

So what difference has it made?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:27

And I think the more senior you get, the more responsible you ultimately

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:30

are for making sure that the money that we spend, taxpayers money

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:35

on those campaigns has an impact.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:37

And I think ultimately we've got to be able to make sure we can we can

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:41

learn also from things that have gone before so we don't have to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:44

constantly invent everything ourselves.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:47

And I think what's really exciting about the roles that we have,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:51

because sometimes you can absolutely see the difference you're making.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:56

And I remember, and it might not sound like comments but actually it is about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:07:59

the front door of an organization when we at South West London and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:03

St George's Mental Health Trust we

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:07

reviewed the interface between how patients engage single point of access.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:13

And at the time, it was a average wait time of nine minutes and through

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:19

a program that I led to look at how we can transform that service.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:24

We then implemented a new system, new telephony, new training programs.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:29

We've got that down to 27 seconds.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:31

And I'm thinking for nine minutes to 27 seconds, And those are the things that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:36

we in comms can see because we have such a broad lens of the opportunity.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:41

And I think that's where we shouldn't always necessarily stay within our

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:47

traditional domain because we have got a strategic opportunity because

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:50

we've got such a bird's eye view of the work that takes place so

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:52

Carrie-Ann Wade: Definitely.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:53

impact is huge isn't it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:55

Carrie-Ann Wade: Yeah.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:55

And, and you've talked a lot about opportunity and I feel like having known

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:08:59

you for a while, again, we won't give away how long I feel like you're a person

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:04

who grasps opportunities and that's very much like part of your personality.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:08

And I think it's really interesting that a lot of your career has

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:11

been in public sector, because I think there might be for.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:14

people who don't work in that public sector kind of sphere, a sense that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:18

there is less opportunity in the public sector, because we hear lots

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:22

about, you know, money's really tight.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:24

There's never any finances.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:25

We've got shortage of staff.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:27

The workforce is really challenged, but actually, I don't know

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:30

if you found the same thing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:31

It sounds like you have.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:33

From my experience of working in the public sector, there's been huge

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:36

opportunities to have that impact as an individual, but also with your wider team.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:41

So, yeah, what would you say to those comms colleagues who perhaps haven't

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:44

considered public sector in terms of that opportunity for career progression?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:49

Yeah, that's a great question.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:51

I think I think there's just so much opportunity.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:54

There's so much opportunity to make a difference, especially when you

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:09:59

look at comms and strategic function that has a layer of everything.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:05

So we can ultimately get involved in everything and to help improve that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:09

interface with patients, carers, staff, whatever that might be.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:12

And I think If you're interested in joining the public sector, and you're

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:17

interested in communications, then there's no better place because there's always

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:22

something going on, whether it's rebutting Some of the myths or the challenges that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:27

might be put towards us or actually have you look at transforming service change?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:31

And whether that's implementing new care models or developing, helping

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:36

to develop clinical strategies, helping to bring staff on board with

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:40

change the massive opportunities.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:43

And also the fact is.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:47

As we develop, as the NHS develops we have to work closer with our communities.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:52

We have to give away power, we have to think about how

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:55

can we do things differently.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:57

And that's another opportunity where we've got to be able to develop those

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:10:59

relationships with partnerships.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:00

That, that is hard work, but it's also ultimately reward, rewarding and Helps

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:07

things be sustainable, because what we can't do is something that's magnificent

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:12

for six months or a year and then go, Oh, great, the funding ran out actually, it's

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:16

our job to be able to look at how can we start to make this work longer term

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:20

or work with VCSE partners and others.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:22

So I think it's, I think it is really genuinely exciting

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:25

to be able to get involved.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:28

And yeah, I would encourage it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:32

Carrie-Ann Wade: We'll talk a little bit more, I think, about your role as

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:35

a comms director specifically, because I think listeners are interested

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:39

to hear about why people might choose to step up into that space.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:42

But you've already mentioned quite a few big programs of work that you've

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:46

been involved in through local authority and the NHS, but are there particular

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:51

highlights of your comms career to date that you wanted to share with us?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:55

Oh, I thought you'd never ask, Carrie-Ann.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:11:59

My whole career, I'm joking.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:00

I think I think, sure many other people say the same thing, but when

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:04

the pandemic hit, it was different.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:07

It was different, wasn't it?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:08

And if you worked in the eye of the storm in the NHS, it was full on.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:15

All the time 24 seven constantly, and I think those points where people made the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:23

decisions to go all in and to be able to support frontline staff and communities

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:28

and patients and others was critical.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:32

And I think we were the thing I'm really proud of is we worked

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:36

with our chair so Norman lamb.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:39

Who predicted the psychological fallout because of the impact of COVID and and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:45

his view, which was proven to be right, was also the impact that the cost of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:49

living crisis can have mental health the impact of of people being isolated.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:57

etc.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:12:57

So as a result of that, we created a coalition of voluntary and statutory

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:02

organizations, local authority partners, NHS and others to, to create a task force,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:08

which has also got faith groups and other partners across the whole of South London.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:12

And we call it South London Listens.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:14

And then we went out to our experts and said, look, what are the things

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:18

that we can do to make a difference?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:20

And that was great.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:20

It's traditional, isn't it?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:21

We asked our experts.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:22

Experts know best.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:24

Experts came up with ten things.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:25

They said, more leaflets, more posters more X, Y, and Z.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:29

And then we said, okay we're going to go out to ask our community now.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:32

We did a community listening exercise over six, six weeks.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:36

And we engaged with 10, 000 individual conversations and we

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:40

had lots of counsellors leading these sessions, lots of like faith

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:44

groups, partners, schools, et cetera.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:47

And actually what they came back with, they said, your list that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:49

you've come up with is rubbish, right?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:51

That's not what we want.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:52

We don't want more leaflets.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:52

We don't want, but what we want is these four things.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:13:57

They wanted to look at working wages to tackle social isolation and loneliness

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:02

and digital inclusion to look at children and people in parental mental

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:06

health, and the other one was to improve access for refugee migrant communities.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:13

And as a result of that, we then created a program which is now

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:17

we've invested almost close to 5 million pounds across South London.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:21

We've worked to get all of all our provider organizations

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:25

paying London Living Wage.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:27

We've looked at programs called Community Embedded Worker where we have nurses.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:31

now working in refugee with refugee groups or with food banks or at school

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:36

so that they can look at prevention.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:37

So we're moving much more upstream.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:40

And then there's a program work we do around recognizing that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:43

people, especially children, young people who are on waiting lists.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:46

Actually, what can we do to support them whilst in the waiting list?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:49

How do we curate that journey?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:50

So we've created CAM's virtual waiting room.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:53

All of this has come through directly through listening to our communities and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:56

then working with them on the solutions.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:14:58

And that program, as is we're now in its fourth year is is an incredible

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:03

piece of work that we're doing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:04

And as a result of that, we're now moving into anchor systems.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:07

So actually it's an anchor system.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:09

What can we do to pull together our partners to be able to then support

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:13

future generations to work in the NHS, just like we're having conversation now,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:17

and people don't know the opportunities that are available working in public

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:20

sector, you can become a doctor, actually, on the job through an apprenticeship

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:24

scheme, you could look at getting your degree, the mentoring opportunities

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:30

that are available are phenomenal.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:32

So it's really about getting that passion in.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:34

And for me, that's been the joy.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:37

of actually connecting what I really love doing at work and actually what I really

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:40

love doing about communities because that's where we can make a difference.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:44

People don't just go to hospital when they're unwell, actually they, the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:47

hospital is part of their community and I think that's something we've

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:50

really got to start to think on.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:51

So that's what I'm most proud of.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:54

Carrie-Ann Wade: If you're an aspiring communications leader who's looking

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:15:57

for a safe space to work through your next steps or you want to become more

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:00

boundaried and intentional in the workplace or even in your career, why

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:04

not check out the individual and group mentoring offers with Cats Pyjamas.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:08

You can find out more at cats-pajamas.co.Uk or over on our socials.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:14

All the links are in the show notes.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:17

I love that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:18

And I can, I can hear and see that you're most proud of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:21

And it's back to that impact, isn't it?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:23

Like what an amazing impact to have for the communities across South London and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:28

thinking beyond just what is the NHS intervention in somebody's life when

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:32

they're unwell, but actually how do we work with others to stop people from

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:36

becoming as poorly, for example, and how do we address all All of those other

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:40

issues that impact a person's health and wellbeing and their broader life.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:44

So it sounds amazing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:45

And I know that South London Listens is a program of work that is much

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:49

admired across other parts of the NHS, because definitely in North East

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:54

London, we've talked about it a lot.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:56

So yeah, you should definitely be hugely proud of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:16:58

And thank you so much for sharing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:01

So I'm going to move us on a little bit now to be more focused on the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:05

role of a communications director.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:07

And obviously you've been involved in, in that amazing program in your

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:11

capacity as a director of communications.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:14

And you've mentioned that's across, you know, your own organization

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:17

and then a wider system.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:19

So first of all, before we talk a bit more about maybe some of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:22

the challenge that that brings.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:24

I just wondered, how did you decide that becoming a director was the right choice

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:29

for you in your communications career?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:31

Ah, yeah.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:32

It's always hard, isn't it, to know at what point, but I think I always

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:37

I was really lucky to know early on I wanted to work in communications.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:40

I just didn't know what kind of communications then I worked in,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:43

as I said, in the public sector.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:45

Originally I was wanted to be a police a police man, but I did

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:48

two weeks of work experience and I thought, no, that's not for me.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:53

Carrie-Ann Wade: that was the story.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:54

You had the desire to work for the police service, and then you had

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:56

a little bit of a, a taste of it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:58

You're like, no

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:59

no, not for me.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:17:59

But but yeah, communication.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:01

It was an incremental journey.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:03

So I started as an assistant, I then became manager.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:07

I became a another manager, then I became a head of communications.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:11

Then I became a head of communication with trust.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:13

Then I became a director and then I became an executive director.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:17

So it's been that kind of that pathway journey.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:20

And so for me, I think the end goal was always being able to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:23

implement changes we've just said.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:25

And I think there's no better way than to implement it genuinely than being in

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:29

a space where you can influence other executive colleagues and the board.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:33

And I think that's the transitional factor.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:35

We move into a space where you're suddenly shaping policy and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:39

shaping way organizations work.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:42

I think so I recognize through other inspirational leaders and how they did it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:45

And I've did, and I'm a great believer in you watch people who do incredible

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:50

work and, Carrie-Ann yourself and you've done incredible work and you've

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:53

been an inspiration to many people.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:55

And I, and so many others in our community have been able to do that, which is

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:18:59

really positive about our community.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:01

And actually you learn from that and then you take the best of that to then

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:05

think, how can you have an impact?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:08

So I yeah, I feel like it was it was the pathway I was on, but recognizing

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:14

that, those pathways aren't always straight, because actually, you don't

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:18

necessarily just stay in one organization and go all the way through the jobs,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:20

all the way to the top, actually.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:22

And that, I wouldn't even recommend that, in fact, because you need

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:24

to get a broader experience.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:26

And so working in different parts of the system, working in different places gives

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:30

you that rounded kind of experience.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:32

And I've still got a lot to learn and definitely, even yesterday I was trying

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:35

to figure out how to use the new Outlook.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:37

So yeah, I've definitely got a lot to learn.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:40

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:40

And, and I do think that, Communications professionals in particular are

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:45

really good at supporting each other.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:48

I very rarely, I mean I have, but I very rarely have come across a communications

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:53

professional who isn't prepared to give their time and their expertise to help

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:19:58

mentor or guide or give some advice to someone else and I think that's what's

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:02

really lovely about the communications community that that you've referenced

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:07

that actually most people that I've come across in the profession have been.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:11

Very open to give in time, advice and support to others to help

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:15

them achieve their next step.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:17

So I definitely think that you've been an inspiration, Ranjeet to lots

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:21

of people who've seen your rise to executive director level and kind

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:26

of you've been so helpful in kind of sharing what that journey has

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:29

been like and what that's been like.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:30

How that's felt for you and how you can support others.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:33

And I know you've done loads of great stuff, some of which you might talk about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:36

around apprenticeships and trainees and, and bringing people into the profession.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:41

Because everyone has to start somewhere before they can reach those lofty

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:44

heights of being an executive director.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:46

So hopefully you might talk a little bit about some of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:49

But I wondered if you could tell us what's felt like some of the biggest

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:53

challenges for you as a director.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:58

Absolutely.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:20:58

I think I think there's always, as well as the positive, some of the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:02

challenges that we've got to work on.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:05

And I think that for me, the challenges have been about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:13

how do you continue to build

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:18

a team that now works very differently as a result of COVID

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:24

how do you keep that engagement?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:25

Because with people, comms people are really buzzy, engaging, creative,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:32

some of that can be a challenge when people aren't connecting as much.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:36

But recognizing that should we operate in a new way of working that's also

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:40

good and it gives greater freedoms so you really want to be able to help

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:45

people Learn and develop and go further.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:49

And so trying to understand how you can do That's good for people in the pace.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:54

That's good for people.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:21:55

I think the other challenges have been around

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:01

Moving communications from the old traditional view of comms As in,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:09

oh, comms will pick that up, comms will write that, comms will do this,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:14

to then saying actually, how can we strategically impact the way the narrative

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:20

of the organization is or needs to be and that doesn't come instantly to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:26

some people, because, Comms can be a catch all in the NHS for everything.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:31

And before you know it, you are writing policy.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:33

You are writing strategy.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:34

You are writing a clinical document of some sort and others.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:39

So I think it's about the challenges has been really clear what this new modern

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:45

form of communications is, looks like and can do the other side of it has

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:50

been, and it's a constant really about demonstrating what I was saying earlier

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:54

about the impact that we have because.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:22:58

We're only as good as what we did.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:01

Six weeks, six months ago, and how we demonstrate for every

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:07

pound that's put into comms, we're having an impact in that way.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:12

The other challenges, as you'll know all too well, Carrie-Ann, is some of the

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:17

political challenges, big P, small P.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:22

And often our roles can be facilitators of bringing people together and to

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:27

communicate things that can be tricky or challenging, and to try and get

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:31

people to a place in between the lines before we get to a formal stage of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:37

having those conversation discussions to get people on the same page.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:42

And I think they're the kind of challenges that are there the other

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:45

thing that we were saying off off air, but it was also as you get more senior.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:50

You're often that person that's going, why have you done that?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:53

What's going on here?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:54

And that's, that comes from a good place it comes from a good place because you

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:23:57

want it to be really good and you want people to succeed and you want teams

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:02

and work to succeed and you want to have the impact that we've spoken about.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:06

But then that also does.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:07

mean that you are adding greater degree of scrutiny and and that's right and proper

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:12

because our roles are serious roles about having impact demonstrating the impact

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:17

we have for patient care and that can only come when we Can apply that quickly.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:21

So I think it's about getting accustomed to that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:24

As well.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:25

Carrie-Ann Wade: It's grown a bit of a thick skin, isn't it?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:27

Because we were saying as, as you said off there, like you're holding the mirror

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:30

up sometimes to the organization and you are part of the decision making,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:34

but often also part of the challenge around the decisions that are being made.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:38

And sometimes I think that can leave colleagues from other disciplines

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:41

slightly frustrated when they feel like, why aren't comms just getting on board?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:45

And agreeing that that's the right thing to do, but, and you're

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:48

absolutely right about sort of demonstrating the impact and outcomes.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:51

And I think one of the things that shifts slightly is to be more

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:55

focused on the actual outcomes for the greater good rather than

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:24:59

the outputs of your comms team.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:01

And I think sometimes that can be.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:03

The balance and the challenge you have to kind of manoeuvre as you

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:07

become more senior in your career.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:09

It's not about, Oh, well, this host got this many engagements.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:13

It's actually the say what piece that you talked about earlier and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:15

demonstrating that for colleagues.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:17

Definitely.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:18

Absolutely Carrie-Ann.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:19

And I think the other interesting thing particularly I found is that as you do

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:24

become more senior what, who is your team?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:27

Is your team, the communications and engagement team?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:30

Is it the executive team?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:32

Is it another team altogether?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:35

Is it a combination?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:36

How does that work?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:38

And then it's finding that right balance because you can sometimes

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:40

go too far one way or the other.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:43

And so it's important to try and strike that the right way.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:48

And and for me, actually, I think I have an office.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:54

But actually the other day I went and sat in my office.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:56

with my comms team and I just thought this is, I've missed a whole bunch

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:25:59

of this, because I'm not in the room, I'm not in the space myself.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:02

So it's also important for me to reflect that I need to be in that as much as I

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:07

need other people to be in that space.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:09

So that's the lesson and the learning for me as well.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:11

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:12

Thank you, Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:13

You've talked I wanted to move us on from challenges to successes and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:16

you've talked about South London Listens as being an absolute kind of

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:20

success in, in your career in terms of work that you've led and supported.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:24

But I wonder if as a comms director, there was anything else you wanted

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:27

to reflect on in terms of, of what feels like success to you?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:31

Yeah.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:32

Ah, it's interesting, isn't it?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:33

Because It's for different stages of your career.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:37

There's different kind of elements of success that you

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:39

can, Oh, I got that great.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:40

And it was covered in the Guardian and it was fantastic article.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:42

It's great.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:43

I think I think the successes for me come from when people buy

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:48

into an idea and as a result of that, it then grows and develops.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:51

And the two examples I'll give really quickly.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:55

One was when I was working at Southwest London, St.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:26:58

George's mental health trust what I realized was there was no money.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:02

We're all used to this for comms and engagement.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:04

There wasn't the money that's needed to do new programs work quite

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:08

rightly to be put to the areas where it needed in terms of services.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:14

So I looked at this idea came from one day I was walking past my chair's

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:20

office, the chair, the chairperson.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:23

And I looked inside and there was a plant and the plant was absolutely dead, right?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:28

It was completely, it couldn't be more dead.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:30

It was finished, but it was here in the chair's office.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:34

And this is where, they welcome guests and have big conversations etc.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:38

And I thought if we could allow that in the chair's office.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:41

Yeah, and you know we walk along, along the room and the toilets look terrible.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:46

The toilet seats are broken.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:49

The.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:49

Rubbish on the floor.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:51

I'm painting worse pictures than it is.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:52

But do you see what I mean?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:53

It's every day we walk past things and then that's the standard that we accept.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:27:56

So I took a picture of the, of this dead plant and some other

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:01

random pictures of posters where somebody had crossed out the board.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:04

execs as they'd left the organization these are genuine pictures and things.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:08

And I created a presentation and I called it making life better together.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:11

And then I said, let's create a program of work, which is a culture change program,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:15

which basically pulls in our Our staff engagement people who work with our HR

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:19

colleagues, the communications team, we've got the membership team, the staff health

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:25

and being team, all these people need to come together to work towards this common

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:29

goal of making life better together.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:31

And we put in activities and annual plan and do some different things.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:34

And of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:36

When I was taking that through the executive and other people, what struck

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:40

people was the dead plant and people still talk to me, oh yeah, the dead

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:43

plant, because everybody recognizes, we walk past those things every single day.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:48

And that program is still going strong, I'm no longer there.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:52

And I'm now at South London Morse.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:54

But that program is going really well and I'm really proud that actually colleagues

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:28:59

took it and made it much bigger and much better and I've done an amazing

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:02

job with it and has been fantastic.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:04

So that's one of the successes I think I'm really proud of.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:08

The other one is.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:10

Something that I keep saying I'm going to write up and I do need to write this

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:13

up, but is the comms trainee program you mentioned earlier carry on, which was

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:17

recognizing that, often I'm sure that many of us will get asked by about, are

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:24

there any opportunities in comms, for, said niece, nephew, child, et cetera.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:29

And when you look at it, From our diverse communities.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:33

Other people don't have those connections.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:34

They don't have the opportunity to be able to get into into our profession.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:38

And therefore, what's the gateways we can create, or actually, how do we remove

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:43

some of the obstacles and barriers for people to come into our profession.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:47

And the development of the commerce training program came actually from

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:52

a very similar program the nursing development team we're doing.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:55

Because they created a trainee program for nurses to come in and I was

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:29:59

thinking, actually, there's nothing to stop us from doing that for comms.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:04

So we created the job description, which started at a band two back

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:08

in, I think, almost 10 years ago.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:10

And now it's a band three, 18 month rotating program.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:14

We've had around about 10 trainees go through that program and they've all

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:18

successfully either gone on to work in the NHS or public sector services.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:21

And the diversity has probably been 80 percent diverse and.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:26

And it's such a phenomenal thing to see people who come in and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:29

say, what's an email signature to then leave the organization going?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:34

Yeah, I can write this campaign plan.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:35

I've done this PR.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:36

I'm doing this.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:37

Yeah.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:37

I'll take a camera and just film the chief nurse and I'll do this.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:40

And that's a buzz we need because by getting more people from diverse

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:46

backgrounds, but younger generation, others involved in our work, passionate

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:50

about our work, that's how they can also help us learn and develop.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:55

And I think it's really important to do that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:57

So they're my two successes.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:58

I'm really proud of.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:30:59

Carrie-Ann Wade: Oh, I love both of those.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:00

And I love that the dead plant has become the symbol of like

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:03

what we won't accept walking past.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:05

That's the standard now that we won't accept is the dead plant.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:08

And that's amazing how that stuck with people from your

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:11

initial pitch of that idea.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:13

But I'm, I'm so glad you talked about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:14

the trainee program, because in the last series of this podcast the colleagues that

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:19

came from NHS that we interviewed around diversity in our profession were all name

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:23

checking you, Ranjeet, for the work that you're doing in that space and talking

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:27

about how much you're an advocate for trainees, apprenticeships, and, and kind

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:31

of making the profession more diverse.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:33

So it's definitely.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:35

a success for you.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:37

I'm glad you think it is, but everyone else thinks it is too.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:39

So Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:41

I know we could talk for hours because we've done it before and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:44

often over a gin and tonic, which we don't have at time of recording.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:48

But I also appreciate our listeners have other things that they need to go and do.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:52

So I'm going to try and wrap the conversation up, Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:55

And my final question for you, which I think would be a lovely way to end

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:31:59

is, is what advice would you give to aspiring communications directors?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:05

So from everything you've learned in your career, you know, what would be

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:09

the advice you'd give to people who are thinking, I fancy that step up and

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:12

I'm going to give it a go, but I may be just not a hundred percent sure yet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:17

Yeah, that's another podcast altogether, but in a sentence,

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:22

I would probably say be brave and be open minded to opportunities.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:29

And I think if you get the basics everything else will follow.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:34

Carrie-Ann Wade: I love that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:35

Thank you, Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:36

I probably did save what could have been the biggest question

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:38

till right at the end, didn't I?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:40

Because I'm more interested in being nosy about your career, Ranjeet

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:43

because I didn't know some of that.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:45

So it's been enlightening to find that out.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:47

So thank you so much for sharing and being part of the conversation, Ranjeet.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:52

And I know our listeners will be really pleased to hear from you.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:55

If people want to reach out to you and find out more about

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:58

the book, What's going on.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:32:59

Are you on socials?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:00

How did they, how did they link in with you?

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:03

Yeah, I'm on what used to be called Twitter X @ranjeet_kaile.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:08

Please do reach out and give me a shout.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:11

Carrie-Ann Wade: Fabulous.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:11

Thank you so much for your time.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:13

I've really appreciated it.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:14

Thank you, Carrie-Ann.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:15

Thanks for having me.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:17

Carrie-Ann Wade: Thank you for listening to this episode of Behind the Bob.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:20

I'd love for you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:23

and leave a rating or a review.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:25

You can also engage with me over on the socials.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:28

I'm on Insta and X at @catspjs_uk of course you can find me over on LinkedIn.

Ranjeet Kaile: 00:33:34

Hope to catch up with you soon.