Episode Summary

Join Harry Duran, host of Vertical Farming Podcast, as he welcomes to the show, co-founder and Chief Marketing Officer at AeroFarms, Marc Oshima. AeroFarms is an award-winning indoor farming company that is on a bold mission to grow the best plants possible for the betterment of humanity. Today, Harry and Marc talk about Marc’s background in marketing and how it has impacted his work at AeroFarms. Marc provides his thoughts on the concept of ‘speed breeding,’ speaks to his passion for food and expounds on the concept of utilizing business as a force for good

Episode Sponsor

CULTIVATD

Key Takeaways

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• 02:37 – Harry welcomes to the show Marc Oshima, who discusses the impact COVID-19 has had on his business, his background in marketing and the power of telling the story behind the food
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• 08:23 – Marc talks about the value of AeroFarms being a Certified B Corporation
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• 11:51 – Marc explains the concept of ‘speed breeding’ and how he got involved in marketing and food
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• 17:22 – Marc reflects on the work he did at Toys R’ Us
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• 20:54 – Marc expounds on the vision and mission of AeroFarms and the importance of food literacy
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• 27:30 – Marc talks about the journey of AeroFarms and potential future expansions
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• 29:06 – Marc speaks to the experience of AeroFarms going public
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• 32:23 – Marketing trends Marc has noticed throughout his career and the impact of social media marketing
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• 35:43 – Where Marc sees companies get it wrong in their approach to customer relations
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• 37:48 – Marc speaks to some of the initiatives AeroFarms prioritizes
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• 43:49 – A tough question Marc has had to ask himself recently
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• 46:22 – Harry thanks Marc for joining the show and let’s listeners know where they can learn more about AeroFarms and connect with Marc
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Tweetable Quotes

“This idea that business can be a force for good expands beyond just the world of agriculture. This is about other verticals and we’re hoping that we can be an inspiration and a catalyst for other companies as well.” (09:04) (Marc)

“Thinking about key genetic traits plus the rapid growing process, that’s really leading to this rapid cultivation, this speed breeding. This is what we think about as the next generation of the indoor farming opportunities that we continue to unlock.” (12:15) (Marc)

“For us, what we’re doing and have been doing in the category of leafy greens is we’re creating different flavor experiences.” (20:54) (Marc)

“We’ve been very specific about how to build our brand. And I think that’s a very important part of the equation today without question. And part of that is the journey with the consumer hand-in-hand and how do we collectively get them to be our brand advocates and brand ambassadors.” (33:30) (Marc)

Links Mentioned

Marc’s LinkedIn

AeroFarms Website

AeroFarms Twitter

AeroFarms Instagram

AeroFarms Facebook

Sponsor Info:

Cultivatd Website

Cultivatd Instagram

Cultivatd’s Twitter

Cultivatd’s Facebook

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Mentioned in this episode:

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dot com, or click the link in the show notes. Thinking about key

genetic traits plus the rapid growing process, so that's

really enhancing, you know, and leading to this rapid cultivation, the

speed breeding. And this is again what we think about as sort of the next

generation of the indoor farming and the opportunities that we continue to

unlock, which is, you know, how do we think about the right seeds to

optimize for indoor growing? How do we think about the right seeds optimized for the

characteristics or traits, you know, that we're growing for as well?

Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations

with fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech

visionaries. Join us every week as we dive deep into the

world of vertical farming with your host, Harry

Duran. Vertical Farming Podcast, Season 3.

Welcome back. If this is your first time listening, I'm sure you're in the

right place, because this is the one where we interview fascinating CEOs and

founders of the leading vertical farming companies from around the

world. I'm your host, Harry Duran. Thanks for carving out a little bit of

time in your day to listen to this episode. I truly appreciate it. In case

you missed last week's episode, we had on Thomas Oberlin, co-founder at Fazenda

Urbana, talking about some of the great things they're doing in Brazil.

This week we get to hear some more about the happenings at AeroFarms,

courtesy of Mark Oshima. He's the co-founder and chief marketing

officer, and Mark was gracious enough to come on the show and share

his unique perspective. AeroFarms is no stranger to folks listening to

this podcast, but for those of you that may not know, they are an

award-winning indoor farming company that's bold on its mission

to grow the best plants possible for the betterment of humanity. Today, Marc and I

talk about his background in marketing and how it has impacted his work at

AeroFarms. Again, given his background, we learn a lot about how Marc

thinks about challenges and opportunities happening in the vertical farm space.

We learn a couple of new concepts for those that are like me, learning as

we go. And it's clear that Marc has a passion for

food and also about the idea of business being a force for good.

which we spend a little time on as well. So really enjoyed this as a

complement to my earlier conversation with Ed Harwood. This episode is also

brought to you by Indoor AgCon. Remember that if you're scaling up or starting up,

Indoor AgCon can help you grow your vertical farming business. It's live

and in person this year, and it's the premier trade show and conference for vertical

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potential business partners at some of the great networking events planned. Learn more and take

advantage of early bird registration discounts at indore.ag,

and you can save an additional $100 off registration with our promo code

VFPOD2021, and we'll have

that in the show notes as well. Lastly, if you're not already, make sure you

are subscribed or follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

And we're looking for new reviews,

ratethispodcast.com/vfp, and we'll be sure to read it out on

a future episode. Okay, let's get into this conversation with Marc.

So Marc Ashima, co-founder and chief marketing officer at AeroFarms, thank you for

joining me on the Vertical Farming Podcast. Great to join you, Harry.

And for the benefit of the listener, like, where are you dialing in from?

So I'm dialing in from Newark, New Jersey, where AeroFarms, we have our

global headquarters. Today we're a team of over 185 people. We

have multiple locations in Newark offices as well as

multiple farms, commercial farms, R&D farms, but using this

as a nexus for the work we're doing around the world. And where's home for

you? Well, I grew up in New Jersey. And so yeah, this is

exciting for me to be redefining the Garden State and thinking about new ways of

farming. And I had a lot of ties to Newark

even growing up. My father worked for Prudential, which is Newark-based,

and spent a lot of time in Newark over the years. And so it's been

nice to, you know, call this home as well. But I actually live in

Manhattan. My wife is born and raised there, tough to get her out, but close

by. And what's exciting about our farms and our team, you know, we

really think about ourselves being, you know, within the community or by

the community. And so most of our team lives within 15 miles of our

Newark headquarters. What was the major impact

to you? I know a lot of things have happened over the past, you know,

14, 16 months related to the pandemic. And I'm just wondering if there's

something that stands out for you that's memorable from having gone through that experience,

especially having lived in the city. Well, what strikes me, and I'm

reminded of this every day, is just the incredible commitment of our team. It's incredible

wearing this mantle of essential worker and the idea that we're

feeding, nourishing the community. We've maintained operations every single

day, and it's because of the commitment of our team. And so

that's been incredibly rewarding, and people appreciating, you know, the

importance of the work we're doing, not only here, but again, in that

broader lens of how we can really write this new playbook in agriculture and food

and food security. So that's really stood out. But it's also been an

opportunity where we've partnered closely with our selling partners, helping them

solve some of their problems that they've had in their distribution centers, their ability. And

so, look, our food service that had disappeared, we're

excited to see that coming back. And so when we talk about sort of

silver lining and, you know, where we are, that's exciting for us as well.

But our retail business has grown tremendously. You know, with

our fast-growing process, you know, we were able to pivot very quickly in

terms of our seeding schedule, our harvest schedule, and really

think about deploying even more product to the retail. Historically, we've worked

with a wide range of different customers. Our whole lens is about how we democratize

access to good, healthy food. And it's really, again, working

with key retailers and food service partners that, when we think about

expanding, not only what we're doing here in the Northeast, but other regions in the

US, but around the world, how do we work with them? And that's what's

exciting for us when we think about that long-term vision about impact. On a

personal note, what's the one thing you missed the most

from home? Well, listen, I am a huge foodie. Love food,

love going out to restaurants. I'm very involved in the culinary

area in a number of different ways. It helped elevate my home cooking.

But listen, I really appreciate being able to go out to

restaurants, appreciating the work And just really passionate

about this area. In addition to my work at AeroFarms, I'm on the board of

Chefs Collaborative, which has been around for over 25 years, helping, you know, be able

to champion a more sustainable food system. I'm on the Sustainable Advisory

Council for the Culinary Institute of America. And so really healthy

appreciation of, you know, what restaurants, what chefs, you know, have been going through,

and happy to be able to support them in any way I can. And one

of the biggest ways is by going out and And so, it's been a big

exciting opportunity to be able to get back into that. Are you a Chef's Table

fan? Chef's— yeah. Well, that's also what we've become is just

huge consumers of every single

show whether it's Chef's Table. We went back and looked at every

season of Top Chef, even MasterChef. It was like anything and everything.

But the Chef's Table really elevates it, right? And it's really pretty

special. And some of those chefs I've had a chance to— to get a chance

to meet as well and so seeing their personal stories, their

backstories, that one always seems to go a little bit deeper and really strikes, you

know, an emotional chord. But I tell you what, it just whets the appetite even

more. So it's something that is almost torture to go

through because you can't get a chance to enjoy their food just yet but looking

forward to that time where we kindle that. Do you feel that a show like

that has brought the elevation of the creation of food

more into the mass consciousness? And obviously now that the quality of the video is

even better, so like you get to see the crispness of the lettuce

You know, real, like in 4K. And I'm wondering if that's

caused people to have more of an appreciation for how their food is made and

the story behind the food. Yeah, well, listen, my background is in

marketing and the power of telling stories, connecting with consumers. And

so that's exactly right. What they've done is be able to

elevate the experience, both in terms of the visual, but also just in

terms of the narrative, in terms of geography, in terms of locales that they go

to. So, it's bringing, you know, what had been really a

rarefied experience. How many people are going to be able to go to, you know,

Santiago or, you know, some remote place and be able to enjoy a meal? So,

you got to bring that into your home and appreciate the craftsmanship, the work.

And I think that's what's exciting about this era that we're in, that there's,

you know, greater access, greater visibility, greater transparency.

And what this is all doing is cultivating a better appreciation of your

food and where it's coming from, how it's prepared. And I know for me, that

was one of the inspirations when we thought about founding AeroFarms, which is,

again, how do we be even more open about how we're growing and

the reasons why we're doing it? So this is an exciting time in terms of,

I think, media and access from the media standpoint as well. And

AeroFarms is B Corp, is that correct? AeroFarms is a B Corp.

Yeah, this is really important for us. From day one, we had always been thinking

about all the different stakeholders, not only from an investor standpoint, but

our environment, the community, our team members.

And for us, the B Corp was a way to really formalize, you know, that

work that we're doing. And think about, again, even this idea

of transparency— there's a scorecard in how we're doing both environmental factors

but also societal factors. And B Corp was really important for

us when we thought about certifications. It goes well beyond organic and

some of the limitations that we see within organic, which historically has not

factored in particularly the worker welfare, right? And so this

idea, how business can be a force for good, it

expands and beyond just the world of agriculture. This is

about other verticals. And so we're hoping that we can

be an inspiration and a catalyst for other companies as well.

How do we set more open standards about how we can do

business? And having been in companies before that weren't B Corp,

do you notice a difference in how AeroFarms conducts business? Does its

marketing Because it is a B Corp? Well, you know,

it's a reminder, you know, of the importance of certifications

and, you know, what it means. It's an endorsement, right? It's third party.

It's something that we can look to both externally, but also internally

in terms of, again, how do we measure? And I think it's much more important

when we think about it's not just us saying it, right? And so this is

really being able to apply, you know, a true barometer of how we're doing and

what we're doing. So I think that's really important, you know, critical aspect,

you know, when we think about, you know, the impact we want to have, the

continuum we're on. And so we think it's very meaningful in terms of,

again, we find more and more, for example, we announced a major

partnership with Hortofrut, which is the number one berry company in the world.

So when I mentioned Santiago, that was like just top of mind, but that's actually

where they're based. But the fact is they're a B Corp as well. And that's

such an important lens when we think about who do we partner with and having

shared values. We have other partners who share that

same spirit. And so this is an important idea of, again, where

and how do we want to partner as well. It was interesting to see that,

and it reminded me of the partnership with Driscoll and Plenny. And I'm

wondering if we're going to see more strategic partnerships like that with vertical farming

companies and established players in the space. Yeah, well, in

general, I think for us at AeroFarms, what we think is exciting is that

we've developed this expertise around growing, right? And AeroFarms has taken a

very different approach than anyone else out there, in that we've developed our own

proprietary growing systems. So when we talk about the AeroFarms team, you know,

it's not just the plant scientists, it's the engineers, the mechanical,

the electrical, the PLC, you know, processing. It's

world-class operators, it's food safety, it's nutritionists thinking

holistically again about that plant health and human health. But we realize

that we can apply this to solve a much greater set of

agriculture challenges. It's no longer just about indoor vertical farming. Farming. So we're doing stuff

now in genetics and speed breeding. We work with Fortune

500 companies besides, you know, the Hortafruta that we can even be public about, but

we work with a wide range of different customers. And I think that's what we

continue to see in other verticals, not just food, but anything plant-based. So

we've been doing something even in the pharmaceutical and growing a plant-based protein there in

terms of being able to host a vaccine. And so the

applications are exciting when we think about the world ahead of us.

Always trying to be conscious of people that are new to vertical farming that listen

to the podcast. Can you explain the concept of speed breeding? Yeah,

so I mean, at the core, you know, we think about seed development in

general too, in terms of the field, it's typically a 7-year process.

You know, just think fundamentally, you have one May every year, you know, try to

get it right and get those learnings. The fact is that we're able to grow

indoors, and we're marrying thinking about key genetic

traits plus the rapid growing process. So that's a really

enhancing you know, and that leading to this rapid cultivation, the speed

breeding. And this is, again, what we think about as sort of the next generation

of the indoor farming and the opportunities that we continue to unlock, which is,

you know, how do we think about the right seeds to optimize for indoor growing?

How do we think about the right seeds optimized for the characteristics or traits, you

know, that we're growing for as well? And so for us, you know, the

speed breeding is a way to help accelerate, you know, this overall learning process.

And so, You know, we have continuing to be, you know, a

go-to source to be able to lead, you know, the scientific inquiry. We

developed the first ever— co-developed the first ever CRISPR produce

product. We also are in the process working with—

when we think about public-private partnerships, we work with the Foundation for Food and

Agriculture Research. And there we help form

what's called PIP, the Precision Indoor Plants Consortium. It's a

multinational collection of companies, and

we've announced specific categories. The first one happens to be leafy greens, but

we're— AeroFarms is the principal investigator for all this

research. And so that's just a really acknowledgement of the

technical, you know, expertise the team has. And the big thing is around

trust. When you think about these multinational companies, lots at stake,

and our ability to be able to work with them and lead them

and guide them and work closely with them is a really great commentary on our

team here. I couldn't help but notice that almost all your career

you've been in marketing, and I'm wondering if that just was an early

passion of yours when you were in college. Well, it started even earlier, just a

curiosity, you know, the question of why and wanting to get to

the under, you know, underbelly and under, you know, thinking about

why something is. And that idea of, you know, how to connect has definitely

been something that's fueled me. Food as well. I'm fortunate that

my mom is German, my father is Japanese American, but grew up with a very

culturally diverse household and food and cuisine and

was very fortunate to travel as well. But food was always this unifying thing

in terms of the different travels and appreciating how food can bring

people together. So that's been some of the guiding things for me. And then

some things that have been really pivotal, I spent a lot of time on the

marketing advisory board for the Food Bank for New York City, and

the idea of access to food and increasing access to food. These were all very

seminal for me personally, thinking about, again, coming together

with our CEO David Rosenberg, our Chief Science Officer Dr. Ed Harwood,

and thinking about forming AeroFarms, about the kind of impact we wanted to have as

a company, and then what we could do realistically

to help address each one of those areas. And what's the story

of how you met David? Well, David, you think about any business, you know, you

really want to know, you know, who you're working with. And I've had a

chance to know David now for over 25 years. And the background there is

we've always looked for opportunities to work together. His previous work in the world of

nanotechnology, he's been an incredible visionary and has

started a number of change-the-world type of companies. His previous company in the

world of construction and waterproofing, the first ever product

for concrete concrete was really a breakthrough. It didn't intersect with the

world of marketing that I was doing. I've headed the marketing for supermarket chains, specialty

food retailers, also in brand management. But this opportunity to

be able to work together was something we looked at because we had gotten a

chance to travel the world on the— we were on the national team for the

sport of fencing. And so you get a chance to get to know someone really

well when you are representing the United States and competing

for that. And we trained at the same club in New York

City at the New York Athletic Club, but also as part of the national team.

So, you form some deep history and relationships there.

And that was foundational though for us when we met Dr. Ed Harwood as well,

which was again thinking about the people

alignment and shared vision. And that was really important for us when the

3 of us then ultimately came together as well. Yeah. And Ed's been on the

podcast as well. So, he gave me a little bit of the background on the

founding story, but I'm just curious how sometimes the

universe puts these people in your path and you have no idea

what the intention was in terms of like why you were supposed to meet. And

then coming around full circle, some of the cycles take probably years to

work out, and some of them maybe even decades. Yeah, I mean, there's one thing

in my marketing career that I still marvel at, and you're right, there's not always

an obvious sort of path, but the experiences— the one

thing that's been common is that I have a history of working on specifically new

launches and new business models in terms of, again, thinking

about what's the right proposition, how do you communicate that, how do

you develop that. But I've worked in beauty, I've worked in food, I've

worked in media. But one of the things that I did in the world of

beauty, I worked for L'Oréal for a number of years. I helped launch one of

the first sun care lines that they had. And so did a lot of work

on understanding the impact of UV and looking at the light

spectrum not appreciating that could come full circle and appreciating

what's the impact on plants and growing and horticulture. And so it's been

fun to kind of think about, you know, that path and that evolution as well.

And, uh, what was your big takeaway from doing the marketing for Toys R Us?

I couldn't help but ask. Yeah, so listen, well, first,

retail is really challenging. We'll just say that, right? Yeah. And so,

and having a long-term view is really critical. I was

recruited to go work for Toys R Us and The work there was about

how do we compete with the big box retailers. So it's not just about price,

right? So how do you create experience? And so we worked on

repositioning the brand, creating a different store experience, creating subject matter

experts in the employees to be associate experts. And

we had developed some amazing initiatives to really be able to

unveil that. But just a very competitive retail market where

toys are being used very strategically, sometimes as lost leaders to attract people in.

So very different strategies. So yeah,

Toys R Us is, I think, one of those tragic retail stories.

And I have to say, I mean, there's not a shortage of those, you know,

in terms of, again, just appreciating that you need to innovate and you

need to change and you need to be able to compete. Toys R Us used

to have a philosophy of stack it high and let it fly, which was basically,

again, if you're the only game game in town, you can really be able to

deliver on that. But if competition changes, you need to change. And so

what I've appreciated more than ever is that spirit of innovation, spirit

of change that's needed, and not being afraid, you know, to

challenge, you know, the status quo. And that's been one of the guiding, you

know, when we think about values of the organization, is to

be able to think about today, you know, as you know with all your

different guests, I we're writing this new playbook in agriculture, right? So,

all prior preconceived notions, how can we

improve, right? And being open to that. And then even today, because we've been one

of the pioneers in the space, not being afraid to

challenge even ourselves. And so, I think that's what has served us well,

is that spirit of inquiry. And I give Ed a lot of

credit when we talk about curiosity as well, is being able

to, you know, instill that sense of, of wonderment, but also the

question of why, right? And so that's been very motivating for

all of us when we think about the work we're doing. And at the heart,

you know, we think of ourselves as technologists, as farmers, but science has been,

you know, in that sense of inquiry, has been, you know, guiding us there as

well. I think about, uh, marketing a lot. It's one of my favorite

pastimes and sort of just to brainstorm with folks and just being an entrepreneur myself,

sometimes like I lose myself in conversations because I just think about

different marketing ideas. And so what's interesting is

the emotional aspect to marketing. And just coming back to

toys, for example, like if I asked you if you remember like one

of your earliest childhood toys, would anything come to mind? Oh, Lego,

without question. Lego, there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So,

and trust me, getting a chance to go to you know, LEGO's

corporate offices. It was just— Childhood dream. Yeah, the

opportunity and thinking like, you know, but that, you know, sense of—

and it wasn't, you know, see, it was always about you'd get, you know, the

plans for some elaborate, you know, kit, you know, that you'd have. But

that's great, but it was what you could make on your own, which was always

the motivating thing for me. So that imagination and how do you

capture that, you know, in those building blocks, it's very literal, right, in terms of,

again, my passions. But, yeah, that's what's exciting when you think

about how can you capture that emotion that you're talking about,

right? That wonderment of not only opening that present, but it could be the birthday,

it could be the special holiday. And, that's why for us,

what we're doing and have been doing initially right now in the

category of leafy greens where we've been able to publish results

and talk about what we're doing on strawberries, we're creating different flavor

experiences. And listen, leafy greens is typically

a low-involvement category, right? And, you know, there's a reason why salad

dressings is such a big category. And people want to cover up and they're

like, I'm going to eat my greens because it's good for me. But we're changing

all of that. You know, again, that's the old concept. And when we

do demos, I mean, if you have customers literally doing a dance of like, oh

my God, I didn't know kale could taste like that. And people know, like,

again, it's so nutritious, I better eat it. But now they can enjoy

it. That's been incredibly exciting. We have people calling into the customer service

line and saying, is your arugula supposed to be this peppery? And it's

just like, it is, in fact, and this is what we celebrate. And so

you create those emotional experiences. I have to tell you, like, and

food is so powerful with that because it's so tied to

memories, associations, right? Moments in time. We had a French

journalist come in and she tried our watercress, right?

And she immediately started crying. And it was like this very incredible

moment. And she just said, well, this brings me back to as a child being

on my grandmother's farm, you know, in the south of France.

And it was like an instant, you know, moment in time that she

had by one taste, right? And so, those are incredibly

exciting thinking about, you How do we capture more of those, celebrate more of

those, create more of those moments like that? And also, I don't know

if you sense a bit of responsibility in helping

elevate the conversations around healthy food and healthy eating.

My girlfriend and I are going through a reading up on Mark Sisson's

21-Day Keto Reset. So I've been learning a lot about how the body processes

food and stores food and how it's tied into how

people respond emotionally and just the importance of being healthy.

I'm thinking about how resilient the body is with the stuff we feed it nowadays,

but also just how much more it could do if fed properly.

Yeah, when I mentioned that we have nutritionists on staff, I mean, we're looking at

this from a very disciplined approach in terms of understanding the

science, understanding the impact that we can have. And so we

feel like we're creating a new category of food, right? Increased nutritional density,

and we've seen some amazing results versus USDA standards

in terms of being able to deliver greater vitamin A, greater vitamin C.

But the most fundamental thing when you think about like you want to change

the health and wellness— and we see this, by the way, we actually

have had school programs, we've had working farms in inner-city schools—

and you see how you change behavior. You make it taste good. And that's what

I was saying, you get them to eat one more serving, right? And— or a

serving, right? That's still the biggest challenge we have when we think about our diet

today. of getting the recommended number of servings, right? And so

by making it taste good, we're actually, you know, creating new

eating occasions. We have people telling us they're just grazing, eating the product right out

of the tray because no washing is needed, but they're enjoying the flavor,

they're enjoying the mouthfeel. Now, what's really magical though is when you see it

in the school level, right? And, you know, this is a kindergarten through 8th grade

program. It's a farming unit right in their dining hall.

And they're very conscious about calling it a dining hall versus a cafeteria because it's

another learning environment. But seeing the kids in all

flavors, including spicy, like, because they do voting and, you know,

it's pretty magical when they grow it, they eat it, but then they

really want to clamor for it because it tastes good. So

you're creating lifelong, you know, behavior changes there. And

we've now seen multiple generations of students, of families, and seeing

the broader impact in the, in the broader community. But it's been fun

to be part of that. How important is that education component?

Because, you know, I, uh, we mentioned earlier that I, I

grew up in Yonkers, just outside New York City. So, you know, New York City

was in my back— in my backyard. But just, it's not top of

mind. You don't see people like— I mean, and the flip side of that is

now I'm in Minnesota. So like, in terms of like open land and

backyards and chicken coops and that's the exception on a

rooftop in Brooklyn in New York City, but it's not built into like the

consciousness of how people grow up to understand like when they think of

where does their fresh food come from, they're going to say like the bodega

or if you're on the Upper West Side, like one of the nicer stores. Yeah.

Well, listen, that's exactly right in terms of the work we've had in

seeing these inner-city schools where students might think

food, where does it come from? it from the store, not appreciating it's a package.

But we'll say in Minnesota, you know, you talk about harsh winters, right? I mean,

that's, you know, you're not able to grow. So this is

the opportunity to, you know, make connections with the food. And you find that

this kind of food literacy is so important when it's

experiential, when it's hands-on, and they get a chance to see, you know, where

the food's coming from. So for us as a company, look, our vision is about

large-scale commercial farms. We're going to be building 16 more by

2026, and a very specific thesis

around what we can do for leafy greens and increasing access to leafy greens.

But we have what we call Community Farms Initiative, not only the schools.

We announced this past year a major partnership we're doing with the World Economic

Forum and their Healthy Cities and Communities Initiative. And

they had identified 4 cities. Jersey City is the first one. It's also going to

be Austin, looking at Mumbai and Moscow.

But the idea is that we're addressing this last mile. Fundamentally,

we're putting the farms into the communities. And so we have smaller

installations that can go right into schools, can go into senior assisted living,

can go into even municipal buildings. And so these systems—

and for the Jersey City initiative, this is being underwritten by a

grant, but it's allowing us to put 10 farms in, and we're in the

process process of rolling these out. The produce grown there will be given

to the community for free and be part of a broader initiative to be able

to measure, working with IBM but also working with Quest

Diagnostics to look at the long-term health metrics. And so this

is really important when we think about increasing access, food

security, food deserts, right, in terms of that access. But it's

fundamentally what we're trying to do as well is just change the equation. It's no

longer about a calorie, It's about the nutrition and thinking about

how do we do that. It's making it familiar, and people either growing it or

seeing how it's grown is a big part of that. You mentioned the new facilities

opening up. You've got one opening up in Virginia, which is slated to come online

in Q2 of 2022. So can you talk a little bit about the

journey to get you, you know, how you figure out where it makes sense to

expand and what that's been like so far with this facility? Yeah, so there are

a few things with AeroFarms, and we talk about our history. For us, you

know, it has not been necessarily always just about that

farm expansion. It's been about the research and development as well. We think

about really proving out the business, really understanding the key

metrics and the KPIs, but also when we talk about work that we've been doing

in other categories, how we've been unlocking more value. But what's

exciting is that there's been tremendous response to the product we're selling here

in the Northeast. We're working with major retailers

that span, you know, national retailers, and that are interested in us going

to other markets and regions. And so the process and

thinking about what market next, we have a very elaborate

farm development team, and looking at, you know, literally, there's over

a 1,000-page document that looks at, you know, the siting, you know,

considerations, looking at customer density, consumer density,

thinking about— the availability of our product, you know, how we can be

efficient in that last mile. And so, but we're literally getting

inquiries every single day about, can we bring a farm to this particular market,

not only here in the US but abroad as well. And so the biggest challenge

we've had is just being disciplined and saying, you know, how to have the right

kind of measured growth and the right kind of impact. And we

now want to be able to do even more of these leafy green farms, which

is again one of the reasons why this is the right time for us to

go public and be able to raise some more funds to be able to fuel

that growth. And teeing up the second question I had

about the recent move to go public, so can you talk a little bit about

what the experience for that has been and what's been the impact of

announcing that? Yeah. So listen, this is one of the

things where the market has been a real key driver

because of the opportunity. We look at not only the growth

of the indoor vertical farming category, which is tremendous in and of

itself, but for us as a company, we've said that, look,

it's not just about indoor vertical farming, it's not just about leafy

greens, it's about all these categories. And all of a sudden, you know, it's a

$1.8, $1.9 trillion

opportunity that we think we can be able to address through multiple different categories.

So tremendously exciting, in part Part of that is, again, product that will

grow commercially, and part of it can be part that we grow for

partners as well. But the core engine is the leafy greens

in terms of, again, where we've proven the economics, proven the metrics there.

And so we've gotten tremendous response from the investment community,

tremendous response from our selling partners, but the biggest

barometer has been from the consumer, and what's driving, you

know, this excitement is been, you know, one of the key metrics that you look

at is called units. You know, you look at your sales velocity, units sold per

week, per store, per item, right? And so the consumer is voting with their

wallet in terms of, again, how they enjoy the product. We

also see them voting with what's called the Net Promoter Score.

And this is one of the ultimate litmus, you know, when we think about customer

loyalty, right? It's a 0 to 10 scale point in terms of, again,

10 being the highest, like, would you you know, endorse or recommend

this product, you know, to a family or friend? And that idea

of a personal endorsement is a really high litmus in terms of,

again, you talk about your interest in marketing, right? This is considered to be the

ultimate in terms of customer loyalty because of their

endorsement and how far that goes and what that means. And so we've had a

leading score for the indoor vertical farming category. And so it's

something that we— work at and continue to work at, but it's in response to

the product, the product experience, and the excitement the consumer has for the company.

I can definitely relate to the NPS as I used to manage a customer service

reporting team when I worked at E-Trade. So, and one of the

initiatives was to actually implement NPS. And so it was really interesting to

see, you know, what are the— how certain levers

were adjusted to, and they would directly affect the

NPS. And I'm wondering, as you see the results come in and the feedback people

give you, Have you seen that directly translate into, you know, tweaking

things or looking for ways to improve what you're doing? Oh,

absolutely. So NPS is not a marketing initiative, it's a

company initiative, right? And so this is cross-functional from

ops to R&D, you know, to food safety and quality assurance.

So this is something that's embraced sales. How do we

deliver the right experience in terms of both our customers, but

ultimately the consumer, right? So it's got to be seamless process. And

so it's a disciplined approach, you know, that allows us to think again,

what are those levers, identify those levers, and then understand how we can, you know,

benchmark and then improve. And so it's just another way

of looking at the business, but it's one that's driving the right metrics, we think.

So with the amount of time you've spent in marketing, I'm just curious, like pulling

back for a second, how have you seen marketing

change over the decades that you've been involved in it? Yeah,

so it's changed a lot from particularly the traditional brand management

days of when you had a launch and, you know,

multi-billion-dollar, you know, campaigns to be able to

signify that launch, right? It's very different in terms of thinking about how do you

build a brand. And so how do you engage the consumer? How do you bring

the consumer in to help build the brand, right? And so, you know,

one of the things that we did very early on that's been very meaningful for

us and continues to be very meaningful for us is that we do primary research.

We get closer to the consumer. We understand what are the key

drivers for the categories that we're competing in. And through that

segmentation, we understand then what are the key attributes

that we can uniquely deliver on and that are valued by the consumer. We

then translate them to in-depth consumer personas to be able to

inform very specific specifically beyond just standard

demographics, but the psychographics, but understanding what are the true motivators and then how to

engage them. We do that, and we've been very

specific about that in terms of thinking, again, how to build our

brand. I think that's a very important part of

the equation today, without question. Part of that is the

journey with the consumer hand in hand and how do we

collectively— it's not just us pushing out content, but how do we get them to

be our brand advocates and ultimately really our brand ambassadors?

That's been incredibly exciting, and we see it as a very different approach in terms

of, again, sort of the big umbrella pushout and sort of the big campaigns

is how do we bring them in. We've had to think sort of

surgically because our product is not available everywhere, right?

It's not in every single market. It's helping

fuel, though, people are contacting us and saying, I want to get your

product, you know. And so this is helping us inform, you know, that

farm pipeline of projects as well. I'm curious from a marketing

perspective what the strategy is or what the feedback

is from the people that are on the social profiles. And because it seems

like that needs to be an integral part of your marketing stack

and your plan for how you're going to reach people, how are you going to

communicate to people the value of AeroFarms?

And it's relatively new in the history of marketing, the impact and

thinking about social media. So I'm wondering if the team has given some thought to

that. Oh, absolutely. I mean, we're living, breathing constantly,

again, this level of engagement through all of our social channels. And

I encourage and I share with your listeners, we're expanding our marketing team

to be able to get even closer, right? And the idea is that— so we

have a number of open roles that are available. Because we

appreciate that the dialogues are getting even more in-depth

and more, you know, and, you know, you want it to be very real

and very authentic, you know. And so we want to make sure our

voice is represented. We want to make sure we address that, you know, any kind

of questions, you know, that many people have. But more, it's about how do we

celebrate, you know, the product, we celebrate their ideas, their

recipes. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about sharing. because

it's a love of, you know, a great product or a great experience. And so

what we can do to help foster that and encourage that is really important. And

so this is something that, again, we're thinking about all the time in content

development standpoint. Given the experience you have, I just keep coming back to

questions like high level about marketing, but where do you think companies get it

wrong when, you know, having an idea about how they want to

approach their best customers and, and relate and have

a relationship with them. And because of the number of different companies

that you worked at, I'm sure there were some initiatives that probably fell flat on

their face. And maybe in retrospect, you could have looked at how those could have

been handled differently. And without obviously getting into specifics, I'm wondering what are

some of the lessons learned about how not to do it? Well, I think what's

imperative is, you know, thinking that, you know, you might have all the

ideas or solutions, it's letting the consumer guide you, right? And

so That is really important from a listening

standpoint. You may think you have the best idea,

but until you get a chance to get feedback directly— that's really

important. I think those are lessons that have been learned along the

way. What's important around that is being

aware of things like conscious bias, an idea of how—

even when we're talking about the social listening, everyone has a filter. Right.

So, you know, we do, you know, some in-depth multivariate

testing, you know, to take some of the subjective part out of it,

right? And, you know, we take the personal and the ego out of it in

terms of like, well, that's my favorite, that's what I'm close to. So,

I mean, I'll give you an example, like, and it's an iterative process. And,

you know, we came out with a brand new corporate identity and also

retail brand, but the retail brand, it went through 4 rounds of research. Research that

we did, and it was done in conjunction, and it was not in a

vacuum, not only with the consumer, but also with our selling partners to be able

to have that relationship. So this idea that

ultimately almost like you're co-creating, right? And that's how you get

better buy-in, better engagement, and better loyalty, because people

are part of that journey that you take them into. So I

focus a little bit more on things that have served us well, but I think,

again, The converse is thinking you might have the right idea and

then not getting a chance to validate it against the right audience. So

that's really critical. Thanks for sharing that. One of the things that stands out

is really the conversation around business as a force for

good, which is mentioned on the site, and also working with the UN

on their Sustainable Development Goals. And so can you talk a little bit about

those initiatives and how that drives, you know, the vision moving forward?

Well, one of the key things that we had literally from day one was the

global scale and impact we wanted to have as a company. And a

lot of it was informed, you know, I mentioned our CEO, David Rosenberg,

he's very involved with the World Economic Forum, he helped co-found and

co-chair the Global Circular Economy Task Force, has been involved with

the G20 to help inform the B20 on policy to help

foster innovation in business. And that lens that we

have for the entire organization is how do we help move the

industry forward as well? And so this is really important

when we talk about the Sustainable Development Goals because you want to develop a

common language and help foster and encourage that language

that is understood no matter where, right? And so this lens and thinking

about the key sustainable, you know, 17 Sustainable Development

Goals that are out there, where do we have an impact? And we think we

impact 12 directly and then the other ones indirectly. But

for us, this is really important. Again, we think about a common language so you

can have a common approach. And at the heart of that is this

large-scale impact that we want to have as a company and how we help move

industry forward. So, we think it's important to identify

unifying aspects like that to be able to think about, you know, how do you

make this into a broader movement? And so, there are things that we've done

there. reasons why we've embraced the B Corp as well, and thinking

about that. But there's things that we're doing, you know, with government, you

know, things we do with USDA, with FDA, we help form what's called the CEA

Food Safety Coalition as well. And we just came out with new

certifications called CEA Safe for indoor growers. A big part

of that was educating FDA about our differences of

growing, so versus the field, but also appreciating there are a

lot more entrants into the space, and many of them might not even appreciate, like,

what's needed from a food safety standpoint. And so we wanted to make sure—

and this is something bigger than just any one company— but as one of the

founding members, we wanted to make sure that everyone had access to good

information so that we can all, you know, make sure we

avoid any kind of pitfalls. And so that's the lens that we've had at

AeroFarms about being able to identify these broad platforms that can have

broader impact. You mentioned, uh, being on the, the team

that came up with some of these initiatives. Can you talk a little bit about

the relationship you, you may have with some of the other folks in the space?

I know some of it can be viewed as competitive, and, but some can be

viewed as allies or, you know, resources that you

use collaboratively. So I'm just curious, and how your

experience has been coming into the vertical farming industry and

how important those relationships are. I think they're incredibly important. I mean, with any

emerging industry, you know, it's, again, you want to

coalesce and be able to celebrate the successes and

understand, even like you were talking about, what are some of the lessons learned. You

know, that's important. That's important from a policy standpoint, an

education standpoint. There's multiple stakeholders within government,

retailers, and things like that. So we cite this work

in particular that we did with the CAA Food Safety

Greenhouse and indoor vertical farming companies coming together to talk about

their differences. And there's more to celebrate in terms

of common work that we can do together. Because at the end

of the day, you know, it's about consumer safety, right? And, you know, we're feeding

people, that responsibility is tremendous. And so we want to

make sure— and even the lessons that we're doing, for example, I've been on the

FDA Romaine Advisory Task Force, and we're learning from that. for the last few years

too, and seeing firsthand the challenges we're having out in the field,

you know, as the only indoor vertical farming company there, we're trying to share

best practices, right? And understanding what we can do both from

mitigating risk in terms of the controlled environment, but also traceability and

what we can do from even processing. There's no commingling. So

there's things that we can do to help set the bar higher and help share,

you know, those practices. And so— It's really important, I think, in terms of, again,

particularly with the consumer safety at the heart of this, is, you know, what we

can do together will have a bigger impact. Yeah, it feels to have

a bit more importance as a nascent, relatively nascent industry for people to

have a comfort level that leafy greens from a vertical

farming company are in fact better, you know, taste better obviously,

but from a safety perspective obviously, that anything that happened with that

specific product, because I think it would That'd be a reflection of how

it's viewed versus traditional farming from the consumer's perspective if

they're not educated enough. Yeah, and this is, you know, again, where,

you know, the reason why we came together— we can move faster.

And this is typically when you try to drive change in

governments and different regions, you know, can move more

slowly. So, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we've brought into

this work that we're doing doing not just the work of these other indoor

growers, but, you know, leading retailers, you know, like the

Walmarts, you know, Publix of the world that, again, are

endorsing our approach, our methodology, guiding us in the

sense of, again, how do we, you know, do better from that

standpoint. So there's a lot when we think about, you know, how

to come together. And that's one example. But I mentioned the work we do with

USDA and partnerships on research. And what we're

seeing now, you know, when we talk about the work we're doing in Abu Dhabi,

UAE, you know, we have offices set up there. We're in the process of building

out our completely dedicated facility just for

R&D purposes. The work we're doing there is with companies but

also with universities. And so the idea that we can help, you

know, inform— and this is even the work we're doing here in the US, land-grant

universities, the traditional land-grant universities for agriculture, you know, what's needed in

terms of curriculum, what's needed in terms of research, and we can collaborate

together. And I think this is helping drive, you know, the entire industry forward.

This question is a bit introspective, but I'm curious, what is a tough

question you've had to ask yourself recently? Great question. One of the

things that we hold near and dear is our culture, right?

And so the thing that we talk about as we have grown

As we grow to multiple locations, as we go to multiple geographies, how

can we be sure to instill from day one with new

hires the values that we've had from day one? And so

we spend a lot of time thinking about this, and this is one of the

hardest things that we think about. But what guides us is that we have

formalized what we call our CARE principles. And CARE is actually

an acronym. It's C squared, A squared, R, E. So we give

give a little bit of a nod to the science and the nerd in us.

But it's about communication. It's about collaboration. It's about accountability. It's about

agility. It's about respect and ultimately empowerment. And

so those are the things that we try to inculcate in the organization.

But how can we bring that to life? And

the world is changing in terms of how we can do even better

on those things. And so those are the hardest things that we

think about in terms of, like, again, as we think about the continued

growth and evolution for AeroFarms, how do we maintain that incredible

entrepreneurial spirit and maintain that focus?

Yeah, and I would imagine for people looking to AeroFarms as

the next step in their career, having that outline is something that's probably

attractive to anyone who's— who thinks about what

they want the next few years of their employment to look like, and then what

type of company they'd like to Yeah, I mean, this is important in

terms of our team members. It's important to the organization.

It's important to those new hires, as you said, or potential recruits. And

so it's been important for us to make sure

we make sure that they can really be fostered really, really well

across these multiple locations. Are you looking forward to in-person

conferences? Looking forward to in-person conferences. Yeah, yeah. I've

also appreciated that, you know, I was on a plane quite a bit. in many

different regions. And actually, with the virtual world, I could be

like on 3 different continents in any given day for an

event. But listen, there's something really special about coming to

see the farm. There's something even more special about trying the product. And so that's

been exciting for us with these, not just in-person conferences, but in-person meetings

again, and bringing people in. But certainly without

question, you know, the work we've done is about You know, again, how do we

scale this around the world? So this ability to be able to meet in person

is a big part of that equation. Well, Mark, I want to thank you for

taking the time to come on the podcast. I know we had some, uh,

interesting challenges with scheduling, and I've always— like I said, we had

a great conversation in part 1 with Ed, and I think

we learned a little bit more about the initiatives. It seems like AeroFarms is, is

constantly innovating, constantly growing and moving, and

providing leadership for the industry that it's exciting to watch. So I

appreciate you getting us caught up on what's been happening. Well, thank you, Harry. Appreciate

the opportunity. And for folks to learn about and stay on top of what's

happening from a marketing perspective, I know that you're active on the blogs and on

the socials as well. Any other places you want to point folks to? Uh,

@AeroFarms on any of the platforms will easily find, uh,

where we are. And you know you've reached a certain level of

recognition when you see people trying to use certain

URL or your handles. But just simply

@aerofarms will get people to our real feeds. Yeah. And

I do appreciate you bringing in the fencing because when I

saw that on your profile, I was trying to figure out a nice way to

ask you or introduce it into the conversation, and you did that for me. So

I'm glad to see— I bet you when you joined at the time, you didn't

think it would have this weird Pay off in the end, but it's funny to

see when that happens. Yeah. Well, the one quick final parting

note is that we have an incredible collection of team members

who have excelled in different ways. Athletics is one,

sciences, math, performance. So, it's— I

think what you find as a common denominator, just incredibly determined

individuals who understand what it takes to get those kind of

results. that's really transferable, and that's a great lesson in

life. Do you still follow it at all in the Olympics or anywhere

else? Oh, yeah, in the Olympics, but also just got a text from a friend

who was just like, I just landed in Philly for the nationals that are going

on right now. Oh, wow. And quick plug, David's son

just competed in Philadelphia in nationals. So

yeah, this is something that's near and dear, and particularly for my

alma mater, Columbia University, One of the more— the most accomplished

programs out there. So very close ties and part

of the committee there to continue that tradition. Very

nice. Well, thanks again, Mark. I really appreciate you sharing your story.

Excellent. Thank you. Thanks again to Mark for coming on the show and sharing his

story. Full show notes available at verticalfarmingpodcast.com.

Special thanks to our season 3 title sponsor, Cultivated. If you are looking for a

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we'll be sure to read those out on future episodes. We're closing in on the

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conversation with Austin Webb. He's the CEO and co-founder of Fifth Season.

Until we meet again, here's to your health. Thanks for listening.

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