Not all heroes wear capes, but those in heels, are all heroes.

In honour of Women’s Empowerment Month, this episode dives deep into what empowerment really means. From celebrating traits often linked to femininity, like softness and empathy, to confronting the pressures many women face, including imposter syndrome, self-doubt, and the expectation to ‘shrink’ themselves, we explore the emotional and systemic challenges women navigate daily.

What is it like being a woman in class, at work, and in life? Is womanhood one-size-fits-all? What about those who wouldn’t wear heels but rather show their feminine strength in sneakers? And what about women who don’t necessarily identify with traditional feminine traits; this month is still theirs too.

In this episode, our woman-identifying host Susu B. is joined by Prajakta Lal, President of the Women Empowerment Club and Peer Mentor Leader with the Faculty of Health, and Diya Verma, Vice President of the Women Empowerment Club and Chapter Lead of York Laadliyan. Together, they unpack the many dimensions of womanhood, well-being, and identity.

Whether you identify as a woman or an ally, this episode offers space to reflect, challenge assumptions, and celebrate the diverse ways women rise today.

Resources:

Women Empowerment Club: https://yorku.campuslabs.ca/engage/organization/womenempowermentclub

Resources for Women Abuse Prevention Month

• Resources for help:
• https://thecentre.yorku.ca/
• https://thecentre.yorku.ca/training-education-2/
• https://hr.info.yorku.ca/reporting-health-safety-issues/

Resources for Violence and Assault

• Sexual Assault Survivor’s Support Line and Leadership (SASSL): non-judgemental peer support and referrals for survivors of sexual violence, can be found via a 24h support line or on the 4th floor of the student center, room B449
• Center for Violence Response, Support & Education: coordinates resources and supports for members of the community who have experienced sexual violence ( thecentre.yorku.ca)

Resources for Mental Health

• Resources for help:
• York University Student Counseling & Developing:
• 416-736-5297 | 9 AM to 4 PM - Monday - Friday
• Ontario Mental Health Help Line: available 24 hours a day
• 1-866-531-2600
• Indigenous peoples Hope for Wellness Helpline:
• 1-855-242-3310
• Donation:
• Canadian Mental Health Association:
• Donate (cmha.ca)

Resources for International Day of Persons with Disabilities

Resources for Help:

• Ontario Disability Support Program
• Apply for ODSP: landing.title (gov.on.ca)
• York University Student Accessibility Services: Student Accessibility Services | Student Accessibility Services | York University
• Funding for students with disability: Funding for Students with Disabilities | Student Financial Services | York University
• Learn about Ontario assistance programs:
• People with disabilities | ontario.ca

Donation:

• Canadian Disability Foundation: Our Foundation – Canadian Disability Foundation
• Charitable Registration
• 711188292 RR 0001
• [email protected]

National Human Trafficking Awareness Day

Resources for Help:

• #WearBlueDay – raise awareness about human trafficking – this hashtag invites individuals to share photos of themselves, family members or friends wearing blue clothing and share them on online platforms.
• Human Trafficking National Coordination Center
• Website: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ht-tp/index-eng.htm
• Phone number: 613-993-7267
• Crime Stoppers Association:
• Website: http://www.canadiancrimestoppers.org/?content/human_trafficking.html
• Phone number: 1.800.222.8477

Susu B.: Hey, YU. Welcome to your future favorite podcast, if it's not already Well-being. And YU with your host, Susu B. Who runs the world. Girls, we've all heard songs like this. Loud, proud and powerful. But they also raise important questions. Why do we need to be reminded that women are powerful? Are these lyrics a reflection of how things are or a reminder of how far we still have to go? As we approach Women's Empowerment Month, we want to pause and reflect not just on equality or representation, but on well-being. Because, yes, it's all connected to our well-being. We're asking real questions. Softness, empathy, intuition. These are powerful traits often tied to femininity. But is that all that womanhood is about? And if those traits come bundled with gender expectations, what else? Does imposter syndrome, self-doubt, or the pressure to shrink yourself come as a part of the deal too? And what about women who don't express themselves through softness or traditional femininity? Does that make their womanhood any less real? Spoiler. Absolutely not. This conversation isn't here to define womanhood. It's here to expand it by honoring softness, strength, and everything in between. And name the emotional weight many women carry. And to recognize that it's not all internal, it's shaped by the society around us. In this episode, I had the distinct pleasure of speaking with Prajakta Lal and Diya Verma. Prajakta is the president of the Women Empowerment Club and a peer mentor leader with the Faculty of Health. Dia is the VP of the Women Empowerment Club and chapter lead at York's Laadliyan. I really hope you can join us on this journey. A few mindful minutes can really make a difference. So, let's dive into our conversation with Prajakta and Diya.

Susu B.: Alright. How are you guys doing today?

Prajakta Lal: Really good. Really excited.

Diya Verma: Yeah, I'm really excited.

Susu B.: I'm actually really excited personally because this is one of the rare episodes that have two guests. So, I'm very excited to hear all what you guys have to say. and I'm sitting here with, like, intelligent women. I know you guys, I read your bios and I know you're very passionate about many things. so, let's dive into it, shall we? So first, let's identify the issue or why we even need to have an episode like this one. Okay.

Susu B.: In what ways does living in a Patriarchal society limit the ways women are able to care for themselves and impact women's access to physical, mental, academic, or financial wellness?

Diya Verma: I think, like, my take on this is, like, very personal for me. the issues That I generally see a lot are, like, I'm speaking a lot on, like, the women in my life. A lot of them, they become financially dependent on their husbands. And the financial dependence, makes it a lot harder to access like the physical, mental, academic and financial wellness, because often times they have to put their husband's opinions before their own. So instead of it being a question of, oh, do I want to do this? It's a question of will my husband say yes. like, the financial dependence really takes away their autonomy. and I think even just in general, like, pressures that are put on women after marriage, especially like considering the invisible load, workload in the house, domestic labor, that's often not really appreciated or seen, as like validation. I think those things also become like a hindrance because it's one parent essentially raising, the kids.

Susu B.: So, it's like a married single parent.

Diya Verma: Yeah, exactly. And so, it becomes a thing of like, you know, these moms, they have to, you know, schedule their hobbies and their lives around the kids’ schedules. But oftentimes the men don't really have to do that. They can still hold on to their hobbies afterwards. They can still, you know, go on their golfing trips and all of that stuff. But, because like, there's no expectation that like, they have to sacrifice much for, you know, the schedule of the kids. So I think, like, my take on that is a lot more, you know, after marriage.

Susu B.: Yeah.

Diya Verma: even before that though, like, there's definitely a lot of, like, social issues, and there's so many issues within, like the workforce and stuff.

Susu B.: Yeah, no, I agree. I think, I'm really glad that you're mentioning like, finances, because financial well-being is a big thing. And I think that even before marriage, just living in a patriarchal society, there is something called wage gap and stuff that we are trying as women, to do better in or make the society do better in, What do you think?

Prajakta Lal: Yeah. so even before I started working, I would kind of limit myself saying things like, it'll be okay if I don't work one day or if I don't get a job because I'll get married and I'll have a husband and I'll have kids and that'll be my whole life. And so, if I don't do well academically or if I don't focus on my career, I'll be fine because I'll always have a man to depend on. But that's such a toxic way of Viewing things. Because then if you're ever dependent on a man or your husband or your father, even then you'll never truly know what your life could look like when you have complete and total independence and freedom.

Susu B.: I'm glad you're viewing it this way because, that's a really new perspective, I believe. Because people could maybe view the fact that you are able to depend on someone as a privilege, but sometimes it actually hinders you in achieving things. So, thank you for that. And as a follow up to that, are there ways for women to reclaim their wellness despite these challenges?

Prajakta Lal: You think you can educate yourself, start reading articles, read books, listen, to other women in your life? I feel like a lot of times, a lot of, like my mother herself should be like, you need to get your own job, you need your own financial independence. And I was like; I don't want to work. Like, I'm, I don't like studying, especially because in my degree, in my program I wasn't. It's not something that I'm personally very passionate about. It was something that's like, oh, it's a safe degree. and my mom was like, oh, you should do this because it'll be really good for your future. It's a really good kind of foundation. And I was like, but I don't like it.

Susu B.: Right.

Prajakta Lal: So, yeah, listen to the people in your life, especially the women, because they know what life is about and they know they've been through these challenges. Exactly. They know what's best for you. Truly, a lot of times it feels like, oh, they're pressuring me, or like, they're giving me, they're putting too many limits on me. But listen to your elders to a certain extent.

Diya Verma: Yeah, yeah, I think I definitely agree with like the fact that to reclaim your wellness despite these challenges, it like, really takes a community of women, like people supporting each other. So that could be like your mom, but that could also be your like, friend or your sister.

Susu B.: because even financially, sometimes women try to achieve this financial freedom, but they can't. But sometimes even the networking within women or, you know, it could help you get a job somehow if that's what you really want to achieve. So, I completely understand that. you know, many women identifying students experience imposter syndrome, feeling like a fraud or believing that they don't deserve their success. Have you ever or any of you, experienced this and you know, can tell me a little bit about it.

Prajakta Lal: Since I'm in like a very male dominated field. I'm in engineering, so like 90 of my classes is male students. And then I see like very few women in my classes, like maybe two to three women. And then it's, there's always a separation. There's always like a group of women sitting together and like all the rest sitting separately. So, it is really weird to see that.

Susu B.: yeah, it makes sense why you're saying you weren't passionate about this because you're maybe you're not encouraged to pursue that.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah, that's true. And like, even though I had, I guess like female teachers and stuff in high school who were like teaching sciences, like physics and stuff, physics and math especially, are very male dominated. Even though I had female teachers, I never felt like, oh, I see this strong woman doing, stem, so I want to pursue it because I never felt like they were passionate about it either because they always had things to say about their own experiences. So, it was kind of just odd being able to experience that myself and seeing that because usually the stories you hear, you're like, oh, I had this really good role model who encouraged me to go into this, but I guess I never really saw things like that. So. Yeah, so in engineering it's very male dominated and I feel like there's always this expectation to do really, really well. Right. So, if I say I did badly on a test, I feel like the impact of that was more, I don't know, heavy because.

Susu B.: It is like emotionally just draining to constantly feel there is this comparison going on. like there are different like comparisons that happens between students in general. Just, you know, GPA based, that's, you know, normal achievement based academic achievement base. But to even look, to always have it going on due to your gender is I think it’s a really sad thing. I actually think there was a research because I'm a psych major. So, I'm excited about this. there's this research about how, when they talk about a woman's gender before a math test, she tends to do bad just because they mentioned that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's this idea that because she's reminded that, oh, women gender and there is this general stereotype that women are not good at this, they end up doing bad. So, it's really not about the woman not being bad at math because when she was not reminded of her gender, she did just fine. But it's generally just about the stereotype. Right. what helped you overcome this or go through it because you're a successful lady.

Susu B.: Okay.

Susu B.: So, I want to Know what helped you to actually overcome this imposter syndrome.

Prajakta Lal: Right. Well, thank you for saying I'm successful. I mean, it's interesting that you said that because I feel the opposite. Like, the whole imposter syndrome coming into play, even with you just saying that. I feel like so many of my, like, classmates and people that I see every day and interact with every day, they are, they're so confident and they're, like, so close with, like, the professors, and they're always talking to other people. And I'm like, I can't relate to these people because I feel like I'm not on the same level as them, of just, like, passion and just like, even if I wasn't passionate about the subject, but I was good at the subject, I'd feel like I'd fit in better. But I feel like even that's kind of lacking. So, there is that sense of, like, oh, first of all, I'm a woman and a male dominated feel, so I don't fit in. Second, I feel like I'm not doing as well as other people.

Susu B.: So, did something help you get out of that?

Prajakta Lal: like this kind of podcast or, like, joining the women empowerment club, where I feel like there's so many people who are in the same boat as me and feel like they need to work harder. So, I think it helps to overcome the imposter syndrome. It helps to just have that kind of community and to talk to people about it. It can help you feel a little better. Sorry if that's not like, an answer.

Susu B.: That's a perfect answer, I, believe, because it shows that, you know, it's not like, oh, I used to have. I used to suffer from imposter syndrome and today I don't. Like. No, it's. It's something that.

Prajakta Lal: Definitely not like a magical experience that one day things will just get better.

Susu B.: Yeah.

Prajakta Lal: But for me personally, like, trying to kind of, pursue things outside of the male dominated field really helps because then you see there's, like, other people doing different things, I guess.

Diya Verma: Ah, yeah.

Susu B.: And this really introduces the next question. speaking of male dominated, you know, society in general, we recognize that we live in a patriarchal, patriarchal society. Even the standard 9 to 5 workday is based on the daily cycle that aligns more with the male biology and energy levels rather than the monthly hormonal, rhythm of many women. If we reimagined a world built around women's physiology and needs, what do you think it could look like? I know that's A critical thinking question there.

Diya Verma: I think this really ties to women's health and how women's health is treated. I think one thing that has, like, it's become very widespread lately is like the fact that they don't research on like female, for example. Right. Like, they don't want to deal with the whole like, hormone cycle and how it like messes up, quote unquote, like the tests and stuff. And we can see the, the impact of that in our, you know, in our work systems. We can see the impact of that in our sex education, in our, women's healthcare, departments as well. Like, if you look into like, contraception. Contraception and stuff, like, it's become like this huge widespread thing on social media, but like IUDs and how much they hurt and how we should be getting, you know, local anesthesia for that. And yet that's like, you know, it's not. There's so much uproar, but I'm not seeing the same level of, progress as there is uproar. so, I think even like in terms of these things, like, it brings into question, like, how do we treat menstruation, pain and how that interplays with our work life. Right. Like, we have a monthly hormonal cycle. We don't have a daily one. And so, when people have, for example PCOS or endometriosis, for example, which goes untreated for years, almost like a decade, I think. Right. like, how can we reimagine a world where these needs, which are oftentimes they're not only downplayed by society, but they're downplayed by the doctors.

Prajakta Lal: Right.

Diya Verma: like, how can we reimagine that? I think, like, for me personally, I think one thing would be to really implement like work from home hybrid models. I think like, that's one thing that I'm thinking of that's like accommodating. Yeah, it's accommodating. It's something that like, you know, a lot of workplaces are already familiar with. So, it's not too hard to implement either. Like, there's no excuse, essentially. there's also a lot of other. I'm pretty sure there's like other nations that do have like menstruation leave, or they'll have like, for example, like a three-day work week, things.

Prajakta Lal: Like nations led by women.

Susu B.: Yeah, it makes sense why we like it. We're like, wow.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah, they have that.

Diya Verma: Yeah. I think like, when you have better work life balance. It adds that, like, flexibility to that strict nine to five schedule. And it allows for you to take into consideration, you know, like, the women's, health and bodies. Yeah, and their bodies.

Prajakta Lal: I think when Diya was talking about work life balance, I was like, if we lived in a world where women's health was prioritized, there wouldn't be even this phrase of work life balance.

Susu B.: Right. You reminded me of what I wanted to say.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah.

Susu B.: Because it's pretty sad that, for example, there is the misconception about the productivity of women in a workplace. Well, make the workplace place, safe for the productivity of women and then they can, you can challenge whether or not they're being productive enough. You can go ahead.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah. Women are more productive and people in general are more productive when they feel healthier, safer. So, if we prioritize people's health, work would be better, people would work better, and people would feel more energized. And I feel like I read this thing somewhere of where in a patriarchal society we center men, but in a matriarchal society we center children. So, if we center children and, well, like, children come from women. So, if we prioritize women's health indirectly. Not indirectly, but directly, we would, kind of be bettering society as a whole.

Diya Verma: Yeah, for sure. I recently did, like, an essay on that topic. we were like, it was like a Shakespeare course, but essentially. Yeah, ah, like, the way that I had described it was. And I don't know if this is like 100% accurate, but like, patriarchal societies are more like triangular, top down. very like one, you know, ah, a very strict hierarchy. One person is of more value than the other. but like in a matriarchal society, it's, I would say, a lot more circular. It's like everyone's looking inward towards each other, and instead of it, people are looking below each other and above each other, that kind of thing. In like a hierarchy, which explains the experience, you had with the competition in class, for example. Because in a patriarchal society there is this idea of like, oh, I'm better than you in math or engineering. But in a circular society, it's just like we are collectively helping each other to be engineers.

Prajakta Lal: Some of us are better at some things and other people are better at other things, but we're all contributing equally. We're all good at something and we can all help each other be good at it. Like, make the world a better place.

Diya Verma: There's even that saying right like it takes a village to raise like a child. Right. I think that speaks volumes on how much we truly do depend on community. And if that's coming from like that circular way of running a society, the matriarchal way, like, I think that you're, you're completely right that we were reimagining a world like that. I think it's just so holistic.

Susu B.: Yeah. And I'm glad that you guys mentioned that there are, it's not like this imaginary utopia. There are countries that are implementing some of these things that make, it work.

Prajakta Lal: Like what is this thing like where the happiness levels of certain countries, like the countries that have the highest happiness levels are led by women. I feel like that's so telling. And there's also this, this idea that a lot of countries thrive when they treat their women with respect and they treat their women well. If you don't treat your women with respect, it reflects, it has a huge impact like not just on like happiness levels, but like on, in the economy and everything. Right. So, it's really important. And like even with how you said like the 9 to 5 and like the hormone cycles and like just understanding a woman's body and I understand that not everyone wants to understand, but even just respecting a woman's body and how it works can have so much impact, like just in terms of like safety. If people understood and respected how a woman's body works and respected that life comes from women, then everything would, it would just be like so much safer and better. We would have better sex education, we'd have less assault cases, things like that. If people just understood how things work and just had respect for how things work.

Diya Verma: Because it's kind of like they start to acknowledge almost a level of spiritual depth to how the woman's body works instead of just seeing it as, an instrument to ease their lust.

Susu B.: yeah, I'm glad you're talking about all of these ideas about respect and society. because another aspect that is impacted by the patriarchal views is, that our society holds, femininity as a weakness. however, things that society calls feminine, like empathy, softness or intuition, are often exactly what help us thrive. If you think about it, can you or either of you define femininity? Which I know is a pretty broad question.

Prajakta Lal: Personally, when I think of femininity, I think of like being really intuitive, being spiritual, being empathetic, being beautiful, being really intelligent. And not just like in terms of being well read and educated, but being emotionally intelligent and being able to understand people really Well, I think that's what femininity is for me. A lot of people see it as, like, oh, someone who's petite and cute and pretty. which is not. Which aren't bad things at all, but it is putting everyone in a box.

Susu B.: Right. So, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned intelligence, because I think that's a big one that's always forgotten. Everyone thinks about the emotional side, which is empathy, intuition. But intelligence is a big part of femininity. so, I totally agree with that. How can women empower themselves by leaning into those traditional feminine qualities, not as a weakness, but as wellness strength? You think maybe Dia can tell us a little bit?

Diya Verma: I think, like, one way I'm thinking of this question is, like, in terms of, like, a career and how you present yourself in the workplace. like, I was in sales and marketing as well. And, I think, especially when it came to sales, it was very easy to be looked overlooked by, like, male clients. like, I found that, like, my male colleagues were. It was a lot more easy for them to kind of just meet a client, dab them up, and suddenly it's like, as if they've known each other for, like, 20 years. But for me it was hard to connect. but then kind of leaning into those feminine qualities and viewing it as. Not that you're trying to sell something to someone, but really, like, helping someone who's in need, like someone's reaching out to your company.

Susu B.: I like this Mindset shift.

Diya Verma: Yeah. And so even just, like, obviously, your job itself never changed, but your approach to it has really changed and really helps you. I don't know, it really, like, it makes your heart happy. you feel like a better, you know, feeling of, like.

Prajakta Lal: Fulfillment.

Diya Verma: Yeah. You feel very fulfilled as well, because you feel like there's a lot of purpose behind even such a small job, like sales. And then even, like, one thing that I struggled a lot with, obviously, like, teaching. I'm going into teaching, and that's very quote, unquote feminine. Like, you have to use a lot of these qualities, like empathy, being, like, intuitive, being very, you know, soft with how you speak to the kids, how you teach them. But I think, like, one thing that made it feel like not as empowering was to be told that, you know, oh, yeah, like, teaching is perfect for you because, like, that's the perfect mom job. Or, like, you'll be able to take care of your kids so well because you're going to have two months off and, like, your Husband can focus on his, you know, whatever, and you can be at home. It was just like, instead of it being framed as like, you know, you're going to have work life balance for yourself. And, like, that's such a good thing. It was framed as, oh, for when you become a mom and you have to sacrifice so much for your kids.

Susu B.: And it's almost like your dream is just taken away from you and becomes someone else's.

Diya Verma: Exactly. And it would just feel like, just such a backhanded compliment. Oh, you're such a good teacher. Like, you're going to. Your kids are going to be so lucky and stuff. Which I agree is, like, true.

Prajakta Lal: Right.

Diya Verma: But, to kind of just dumb down the teaching occupation and the entire career as like, oh, it's a great mom job.

Prajakta Lal: Right.

Diya Verma: It becomes very like; you get put into a box and feminine qualities that are associated with it start to feel like something that you shouldn't be proud of. So, I think in terms of feminine qualities, seeing it as not a weakness and as a strength was like something that I really struggled with because it would constantly feel like, oh, yeah, like I'm honing in on these, like, feminine qualities to be good at my job. But then I'm also feeling like I'm not successful enough and I'm not, you know, I'm not good enough. And, you know, I could do something that's more, you know, more heavy or more quote, unquote masculine, and I'll be more respected. like teachers, when you hear that someone's going to be a teacher, like, oftentimes people aren't really looking at you with respect. No.

Susu B.: That's sad to hear because I think teachers are, ah, the foundation of our society. Really.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah.

Susu B.: Yeah.

Diya Verma: So, I think it's just, trying to lean into those. I think it’s very personal and it's very mental as well. I think leaning into those feminine qualities and seeing them as strengths and not weaknesses is like, it requires so much self-reflection and you becoming comfortable with your femininity on a personal level. because you are kind of like battling with these societal forces in order to accept that part of yourself. So that's kind of my take on it, or what my experience with it was.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah.

Susu B.: And I think that, this whole idea of gender in general is also never experienced on its own. so that's another thing that obviously probably adds a layer that maybe you guys can talk to me about it. gender intersects with race, sexuality, class, ability, and more, a big part of being a woman is also about intersectionality. Can you speak to how your gender identity might intersect with other marginalized identities and how that impacts their experience, maybe academically or societally in general?

Prajakta Lal: yeah, I guess I could talk a little bit about it. I think being someone who is brown Indian and being a woman, it's really interesting to see how even people like your family members might treat you or what they might expect from you. I think for a few times I've been told, like, oh, you have to do this, or you have to work like this. Like, who's gonna. Or someone, no one's gonna marry you one day. Like a lot of times, it's a joke where they're like, oh, if you don't know how to cook, who's gonna marry you? Or like, if you don't clean the house, no one's gonna want to marry you. I'm like, okay, let's take a step back.

Susu B.: Humor is also a big part of things like that.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah, it's weirdly part of the culture and. Well, it's not, I guess it's not really weird, but it is a big part of the culture to expect certain things. And like, I, right now, I don't. I'm not in a relationship or anything, but it's still so weird for people to be like, well, you have to behave like this or your future boyfriend won't like it or your future husband won't like it. I'm, like, what the heck are you talking about?

Susu B.: It's always as if, like, there's this like, flashlight on you, like how you're behaving and how you're supposed to be. Be doing something.

Prajakta Lal: It's weird because with its only asked of women, no one would ask like a man of my, like, race to do the same thing or think about the same things. Yeah.

Susu B.: And it reminds me of the conversation we were having earlier about also, like, another thing is class, for example, because maybe if I'm, from a higher, class and I have more money, this will also ease some things for me. But then if I don't, my whole life will depend on this person who will provide me with financial support.

Diya Verma: Right? Yeah, 100%. I even think, like, coming to like, finances. I think especially for, like, if you're in a career that's, for example, like commission based. Only you kind of, when you have kids, like it, you kind of end up becoming dependent on your husband's finances for like that amount of time.

Susu B.: Right.

Diya Verma: Like, I know somebody who works in sales, and it's literally just commission based their entire salary. Like there's no base income. And so, like when it comes to taking vacations and stuff, it's like such a heavy like workload afterwards. and that like extends to maternity leave as well. And I think like that also, I feel like intersects with like the expectations of being a woman, of like, you know, our race.

Susu B.: Yeah, A woman of color in general. Yeah, no, that makes absolute sense.

Diya Verma: Yeah.

Prajakta Lal: I think it's also important to talk about like sexuality because it's so a lot of the times people are like, women associate women with like, oh, they'll get married one day and have a husband and have kids. But so many women out there don't want to have husbands and don't want to have children. They don't even want to get married. Or maybe they want to marry another woman or someone who doesn't identify as a man. So, to like center someone's life around their husband, it's like so devaluing and it honestly invalidates their identity as well.

Susu B.: No, that makes sense. That was my next question actually, because I think womanhood isn't one size fit all. there are women that do not necessarily identify with the traditional view on femininity. Just like we were trying to explain what femininity is. It's too broad. so, there is for example, androgynous women, who do not necessarily see themselves in this traditional view. so, I think as you're touching upon that, do you want to tell us a little bit about how we can support all women, femme, androgynous or otherwise?

Prajakta Lal: Yeah. So, I think in terms of how people identify and how they express themselves physically, it's important for us to accept everyone exactly how they are in like social spaces and honestly any space, even like healthcare spaces and stuff. But we should just make sure that that expression doesn't come into play when we're talking about people's health and people's education. Like that shouldn't exactly. Or it shouldn't be a factor on how well they do like in school or how they're treated by doctors, things like that.

Susu B.: Right. So, so their gender should, should just not be, something that hinders them.

Prajakta Lal: Exactly. Yeah, it should never hinder. If anything it should uplift. People should always have the freedom to express themselves how they want and how, and to look how they want.

Susu B.: Yeah, that makes absolute sense. for those of us who do not identify as women, I know this is coming at the end. But I identify as a woman myself and my guests as well. but those who do not identify as women, can show up as allies and help create spaces where women can feel seen, supported and empowered. How? I guess that's the question.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah, I think I can start this question by saying, or answer by saying that even in our club, women empowerment, we only have women in the club. And I was like, why don't more people who don't identify as women come in? Like, why don't we see more men? It's women empowerment, it's not a women only club. So, I think just do more research and see what kind of communities there are around you who want to support and uplift women. I think as an ally that can really help and not just see that there's a community, but actually come help give ideas, share your experiences. Maybe if you're not a woman, I guess you wouldn't really share the same experiences as a lot of women. But there are definitely women in your life who need your support. Like you need to keep them as well. Like not as a priority but think about them and think about how you can make their lives easier or think about how you can support them. And even in general, just like read more articles, like watch interviews, read books, listen to podcasts.

Susu B.: Like this one.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah, exactly, listen to this podcast. I think that's really important and I think it all stems from wanting to help. so yeah, I mean I think the most important thing is to like just have that kind of need in you to want to drive.

Diya Verma: Yeah, exactly.

Prajakta Lal: And then you can start looking just around you. Just especially at university it's so easy for you to have a community and find community. So. Yeah, yeah.

Susu B.: And I agree there's a, like I'm also involved in the Women in Law association and we have male identifying students and we, you know, we talk about this, that how you showing up as non-woman identifying or you know, just showing up this way can tell other people who identify as you that you can show up in these spaces and this is how you can help women. It's not only about showing up, just to talk about your side of things. Right.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah.

Diya Verma: I think it also like encourages self-reflection on like a larger scale as well because it's coming from community.

Diya Verma: And so, when you're in those communities, you're in these like clubs or even if you're just having these conversations with the women in your life, you're able to understand them and extend like, empathy for them and any, you know, situations that they bring up. And it can also help you because I think a lot of people, they contribute to a lot of problems, and they don't actually realize it. It's so embedded in the culture that it's. It's not even like their fault. so even, like, I think the fact that those spaces, what makes them so impactful and the reason why it's so important that they're so diverse when its concerning women's issues is because it encourages that self-reflection. And it's through that self-reflection that everyone, can like, kind of be more aware of their actions, their words, and how they impact women and women's issues. Because, like, a community of people or society is like, made up of individuals. So, I think it starts from everyone's own heart.

Susu B.: Exactly. I feel like you're looking at it from the circle of perspective. You're saying that we all, together, we create this community. Yeah. If there was one advice each one of you could give to women listening right now, what would it be?

Prajakta Lal: I feel like I haven't experienced enough life to be giving advice. But if I could, I would say that try to have your own opinions and thoughts in mind and, like, focus on educating yourself by, like, personally going out and like, reading things and listening to people. Instead of depending on, like, other people in your life for, like, opinions and stuff. Like, try to think for yourself and try to create, like, a personal, individual lens in which through which you view the world. And like, also just this whole thing of, like, being a girl's girl, it's so important, especially today, like, always stand up for other women, even if we. Even if you don't agree with their viewpoints, like, and always be like, kind and empathetic to everyone, not just women, but especially women, because you never know, like, what they're going through or what they've learned or what kind of environment they've grown up in or studied in. So, I guess that's what I would say.

Diya Verma: Yeah. I think, to add to that, I think, like, at least what I've seen, like, going out, like, having your own opinions, that kind of thing, it like, really helps you break out of the societal expectations that you might be living within without realizing it. I think that we don't even realize how much people's words and expectations impact us. Even, like, coming to the discussion of women who don't actually want to be moms, or they don't actually want to marry a man, you know, What I mean, and their sexuality and their gender expression. Like, I think oftentimes it's really important to like, think about, which expectations. Your kind of like, abiding without realizing it. And then from there, that's like what really gives you that power to be like, okay, you know what? Like, what's my real opinion? What does my heart tell me? What is my intuition, my gut feeling tells me is true for myself. and then kind of just go from there. And this can apply to your career; this can apply to your academics. Just seeing what limiting thoughts that are related to your gender identity that might be hindering you from reaching your full potential. So again, like the imposter syndrome, for example, like, that's a limiting thought. And that limiting thought is coming from the amount of representation that you're seeing around you. For example. Really working on breaking away from those.

Prajakta Lal: Yeah. Also, just one last thing I want to add is don't be afraid of your femininity or don't be ashamed of it. I feel like even today with book talk and stuff and romance novels and TV shows, and stuff getting so popular, don't be ashamed of that stuff. That stuff is so empowering. And if it makes you feel happy and if it makes you feel good, like, please like lean into it and appreciate it and don't be ashamed of it. I think that's where it starts with like the whole embarrassment and like seeing femininity. Femininity as a weakness.

Susu B.: I think that's quote of the day. Really? Yeah. Thank you very much you two, Diya and Prajakta. It was great having you guys today.

Prajakta Lal: It was great talking to you. This is really fun.

Susu B.: We should do it more often.

Prajakta Lal: I'm so down.

Susu B.: perfect.

Susu B.: I really want to thank our special guests today. Prajakta Lal, the president of the Women Empowerment Club and Diya Verma, the vice president of the Women Empowerment Club. I really enjoyed our enlightening conversations. Thank you, Dia, and Prajakta for being such a valuable resource. You can also find links to all the services Prajakta and Dia, mentioned in the show notes for this episode along with more valuable information, tips and resources. Visit our website at go.yorku.ca/wbpodcast. Click on the episode's link and look for the episode The Her in Hero: AWomen Empowerment Month special. This episode was co-produced by the Well-being and YU podcast team. Our podcast coordinator is Prabhleen Luthra. Our technical editor is Jonathan Varela Gonzalez and I'm your host, Susu B. And as usual, we'll leave you with the quote of the day, “Don't be afraid of your femininity.”

Susu B.: Thank you for listening.