When it comes to running a business, it can feel like you're constantly drowning in numbers. Open rates, click-through rates, conversion rates—it’s easy to get lost in data.

But here’s the truth: most of these numbers don’t actually matter.

So, which ones do?

We’re Kennedy and Fifi, and that’s exactly what we’re tackling in this week’s episode of The Email Marketing Show!

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Want to connect with Fifi?

Fifi is a personal brand and visibility coach who works primarily with introverted coaches and impact makers. She helps quieter people - those who have ideas they want to share with the world but struggle to put them out there. Fifi empowers them to find a way to share in a way that aligns with who they are. You can find Fifi on her website.

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Head in your hands, it can feel like all you do is look at bloody numbers. Numbers for this and numbers for that, and which ones actually matter, and the truth is that most of them actually don't. That's what we're going to talk about in today's episode.

Oh yeah, it's Email Marketing Wednesday. You ready heroes? And this is the Email Marketing Show. It's time for a no-bullshit look at how to make more sales from that email list of yours.

Let's do it. Hello and welcome to the show. I am Fifi Mason from FifiMason.com. And I'm Kennedy from EmailMarketingHeroes.com. And I said that wrong.

I nearly said my name's emails from... I was like, I'm an idiot. Anyway, I want to make sure that whatever we're talking about today, which is the numbers, there's loads of numbers in business, especially in marketing. I want to make sure that you put this into practice using the systems you use, with the goals that you've got and all the things that you've got going on.

But we don't want to leave you high and dry wondering how do I apply this to your exact situation. We would hate that. So come and join us inside of our free Facebook community.

Just go to Facebook, search for the Email Marketing Show community, and you will find us there. And yeah, it's free. Come and join.

Come and get stuck in. Yep, yep. And what are you working on at the moment in your business, Kennedy? What am I working on? One of the things I've been really trying to do is figuring out... You know how at different times of the day, you're in like a sort of a different mood, like in a different like zone with yourself.

And at some points of the day, like you're high energy and other points of the day, you're focused. Other points of the day, you're like, uh, or whatever. Well, I'm trying to really become conscious of the different times of the day that I'm in different sort of energies, if you want to call it, or different moods, I like to call it.

So I can actually do those tasks at that point. So when I'm feeling creative, actually use that time to be creative. There's nothing worse than when you're like feeling creative and you have to like do something really mundane, like check all your data or do that thing with your accountant.

And then the opposite as well. Like, hey, you need to write this really creative thing. And you're like, yeah, but I just really want to stare at like the screen.

So I think I'm really getting more conscious of what times a day, what days of the week, what points in the week as well. I have different sort of moods. For example, I'm really creative in the morning.

So I get up and get writing great. Then in the afternoon, I can use that time when I'm a bit more like, oh, my energy's zapped. I can use that time for learning.

So that's when I put learning time into study something or read that book. I've been putting off or something. So that's what I've been working on.

What have you been doing? I am working on the summit again. There's still a lot of work. There's a lot of work to do.

And it's very close now. So I'm really excited. But to your point on that, actually, on the keeping track of your energy, that is something that I do all the time, being an introvert, of course.

What do you do about it? Do you make each day is pretty flexible? Like imagine you and I've got like, for example, we have this session booked in to record today's podcast. And it was going to be at this time on this day. What do you do to make sure that that aligns with when your energy is going to be the right energy? Well, it is similar to what you're doing.

It's actually a sensible approach. I know when I'm better at certain things. And I tend to find that as long as I eat at the right times, and because I used to get very hungry.

So yeah, I have to eat at the right times. Else I am a nightmare. And the right stuff as well.

Like, because obviously if you have a big carby lunch, then you're just asleep in the afternoon. Exactly. So for this, like today I had, I just had a shake for my lunch because Me too, by the way, snap.

Yeah, just like full up on carbs. And then I start to have a down and a little crash. And while we're doing this, I don't want to do that.

But what I tend to do, yeah, very creative things in the morning similarly. And I like to do my coaching calls in an afternoon or podcast episodes and things in an afternoon. Generally, that's because time wise and time zones, it works well.

But I also feel like I get a bit energized from my clients in a sense that seeing them succeed and them actually, yeah, achieving their goals that just. Do you feel like when you speak to somebody else, like it refuels you a little bit? Not necessarily. I always feel a bit exhausted after I've had some coaching sessions because of just talking or, but if they do a lot more talking, which is generally what I aim for in a session, then it's fine.

But if I feel like I'm doing a lot of talking, if I'm doing a podcast episode, for instance, I do feel drained. But if I'm just listening and asking questions in a coaching session, it just feels like it energizes the metaphysical energy. That's how I kind of describe it.

The energy of what fills me up in terms of my passion and my purpose and my mission. Rather than, yeah, the mental and physical and emotional side of things. But yeah, I just try to be very observant of my energy in the same way.

So it's really, yeah, it's really interesting. Because one of the things I love Mondays, right? I know I'm a weirdo, right? Proper freak. But I love Mondays because I'm like, let's do this.

Let's go. We've got so much potential. But I don't like Tuesdays because I'm like, ah, fuck.

You know, like it's so much longer. So that's why for the longest time I've taken Tuesdays off. As you know, like Tuesdays is me day, right? To you's days.

You's days, right? It's all about you. So that's why I've done that because I hate Tuesdays. Same sort of thing.

Mondays tend to be my no people day. But yeah, I have to sometimes now and then I have to go, I'll have to sacrifice a bit of time today because I need to get stuff done. But generally I try to keep Mondays as no people days.

I didn't know that. That's new information for me. After all this time.

So let's get talking about something that gets everybody excited. Numbers and data, shall we? Now we're going to try and keep this as light hearted as we possibly can, obviously. One of the things I think that we were keen to talk about here is about how most of the numbers that we think about for marketing, specifically email marketing and our businesses, honestly, are irrelevant.

And we'll have to dial it all back to the one North Star question, which is, how much do you want to make? Because I think if you don't, if you don't have that, if you don't know, I want to personally take home, let's just pick a random number just for the sake of conversation. I want to take home £10,000 a month or $10,000 a month. Everything is reverse engineered from that.

And this is actually quite interesting because when I get on a call with clients or I even had conversations with friends and we start talking about the numbers and they say, I want to do this thing. I want to start doing a new package or have a new offer or anything. And I'm like, well, okay.

So what are your numbers? How many do you need? What amount do you need every month? All of these things. And they don't know these things. They don't actually know those numbers.

And it really baffles me sometimes because I'm like, how do you know what you're going to do to achieve that goal if you don't know what the goal is, what the number is? And even for me, it's not just about achieving the goal. It's kind of the opposite. It's if you love what you do, right? If you are good at what you do, you love what you do and you care about helping people with your skill or your knowledge, then you will probably be happy to work and work and work.

Like me, I love work and I've had to put stuff into my life to stop me from working all the time. I've had to book weekends away, take up martial arts, learn a DJ, like bought a PlayStation, all this shit just so I won't work all the time, right? I have to leave my laptop in the spare room that is the home office so I don't just sit and tinker on with stuff because we love this stuff. But here's the thing I love about knowing the number.

If you know the number, let's just say it's that 10 grand number. I want to make 10 grand myself per month. Once you know that and once you know what the numbers have to be that lead into that, you don't have to work any harder.

You don't have to do any more hours or any more things that go beyond that number. Now, I'm not saying that once you achieve that number, you might change and you might go, I want to do more, I want to do this, I want to do a different. That's fine.

But while that number is the number for now and the number's just for now, let's say it's 10 grand and you go, great, well, I've got this program, it's $1,000. I need to sell 10 of them a month and I'm going to do that by having sales calls. I know that I convert one in five, let's say it's one in four conversions, so a 25% conversion rate.

You now know, cool, well, I need to make, I'm going to write these numbers down so I don't make an absolute tit of myself. But basically, if I need to make 10 sales at 10 grand, great. I need to make 10 sales and multiply 10 by 4, I think it is.

I need to be having 40 sales calls a month. Like, but I don't need to keep posting and sharing and doing stuff once I've got my 40 sales calls booked in. When it gets to 41, don't need it.

I don't need it because it's just about going as far as the goal and going no further. It's a bit like getting on a plane and landing in Tenerife and staying on until it ends up somewhere else. You're going to end up not in Tenerife.

You're going to end up in the wrong bloody place. Yes, exactly, exactly. But one thing that I think is important to really start with is figuring out that number as well.

How you actually know what your number is. That's a great question because I think a lot of us struggle with that. I think me included, like, I remember when I first earned three grand a month from the business, I was like, I don't need to do anymore.

And my friends are all like, what? And I'm like, that's something I can't buy. I feel like, I feel like, I feel rich because I've been, you know, not earning that for such a long time. Yeah, exactly.

And I actually used ChatGPT recently to figure out my goal. Did you? Yeah, I did. Honestly, it was actually really fun.

So what I did is, because I have this vision of having a nice house with a bit of land, and I know I've shared this with you before, having like a husky rescue and things, putting money aside for retirement, all these things that you can think of, that you have in your vision of life. So I put those all down and try to work out a monetary value, how much it would be. And then by that, do you mean you figured out how much it would cost to build the husky? Yeah.

Yeah, so to the dream house, I had to look around how much it's going to be to get the kind of dream house that I'm looking for. I got an average and I've gone for that. And then the other things that I want to be able to afford every month and how much I'm going to have to be earning each month to pay the house and pay for everything and then put money aside.

I worked all those things out and I absolutely hate numbers. So yeah, me too. I'm not motivated by them.

I absolutely hate them. But I was like, this vision means so much to me that I need to figure out how I'm going to make enough to make it happen. Else I'm just kind of guessing and hoping.

And I did work it out and I got Chachi PT to do it for me with like a plan and all this stuff. It was probably too fancy than it needed to be. But you can do it in a simple way, I'm sure.

But it came out and it was around 10,000 nearly. So I'm like, I can now say each month I want to earn 10k and know that that is going to get me towards my goal. So my goal is 10k a month.

And if I can keep doing that consistently every month, then I will have my dream vision life. So I love that. And I think what's really nice is now you've done that, is it almost makes me think about what life's been like before you know that number.

And before you know that number, you're like, it just needs to be more. It needs to be more. But if you're like Oliver Twist, constantly asking, please, sir, can I have some more? Then more goes on and on forever.

It doesn't feel like you're heading towards a destination. Like you've got on a flight and you don't even know if it's ever going to land. Yep.

And now I have this nightly mantra because I like, I'm not super spiritual, but I like the idea of when you put something out into the universe, the universe will provide in that sense. But it's more of a motivational and positive thinking approach, I suppose, and it works in that way. So I have my mantra before I go to sleep, I kind of meditate with, which is, I'm happy and grateful to the universe for bringing me regular clients so I can reach my goal of 10K every month.

That's great. That's great. And you know what? Even if it's not spiritual, right? Let's say it could be spiritual, it could be not, right? It really doesn't matter.

But the thing is, there is a lot to be said. I know somebody who has had a certain number of goals. I think he has 10 goals and he writes them out again every single day because it refocuses him on the reason why.

If I'm having like a shit morning or a shit afternoon or having a bit of a crap time, I'll just remind myself of the reason why I'm doing this stuff is because I want to, for me, it's the number of people I want to help to make consistent 10K a month. Like, that's my whole thing. I'm like, that's why I'm doing it.

And my why is not to do with the money I'm going to earn because that does not motivate me at all. Like, yeah, hey, you're going to lose your house. That's going to motivate me, definitely.

But I get that there is a line in the sand there. But for me, the real reason why is that. So let's get this into practical sense.

You need to know that number of how much you want to make. And then look at the price point of your offer, of what it is you sell, your product, your course, your service, your coaching program, that membership of yours, whatever that happens to be. And look at how those numbers stack together, how many of those things you need to sell.

And then I think with that, you can make a whole bunch of decisions where we could discuss it at another point, including have you got the right price point? Because selling $10,000, $1,000 things is a lot easier than selling $10,000, $1,000 things. For me, anyway, unless you're really good at natural organic reach. And similarly, selling five things at $2,000, even easier.

And there's a point at which I don't know if I could sell one thing at $10,000 every month. I mean, I think I know how I would do that, but I'm not going down that route of having to make that decision. That's not the decision I'm trying to make.

So figure out how many you need to hit that goal. And if you're happy with that and think that's really feasible, and then realize that is all you need to do. You can stop at that point and then just start the next month over again.

Like that is totally, totally fine to do. Yeah, I love that way of just approaching it where you can just play around with the numbers to figure out what your price point is, how many clients. And then you start to put a plan of action together of, okay, how am I going to get that 10 clients, those five clients at that price point? And then that is, yeah, that is what you need to work on every month.

It makes it so simple. And that's the only thing you need to work on in the business. Yeah, exactly.

Like everything that's not contributing towards that is not the business. It might be fun and there's a place for fun. Like anything that's not that, anything that's not hitting you towards that goal, you have to realize is fun.

And fun is a thing you pay for. It's not a thing that pays you. So remember, like just as if you were going to say, my fun's going to be going to get a golf membership and I'm going to show up to the driving range or the golf, whatever it's called, pitch thing, field, whatever.

I don't know what it's called. I have no idea. I'm going to show up to the golf doodah.

You're going to pay for that. Everything that is not leading you towards that goal, I guess is just fun, which means it's a cost. It's a distraction.

It's a mental cost. It's a monetary cost. It's a resource cost.

It's everything. Yeah, but it can be if you've already reached that goal, it's like, well, I can try something new. I can do something that might be more fun in terms of trying something new to get clients even, or just because you want to.

But at least when you have the goal in mind and you know you've done everything to reach that goal, that's one thing. And then anything is a kind of a bonus. But if you're not and it's distraction, then it's not good either.

So let's have a quick chat about all these other numbers that we're supposed to know about. Everybody talks about, and we talk about when it comes to marketing and specifically email. Because yes, we need to know our ultimate number.

We need to know our conversion rate on how many people we need to get on that webinar, on sales calls, to the sales page, whatever that is to get the conversion. But it does beg the question, okay, where does open rates, click through rates, list size, and all that sort of stuff come in? And what I call these numbers are diagnostic numbers. These are diagnostic numbers, which basically means that these are the numbers you look at when your macro number, your North Star number, the number you're trying to aim for, is missing the mark when you're not hitting that.

So when you're not getting the 10K a month in this case, and you look at the reason that's happening is, well, it's because I didn't have enough sales calls. Ah, so it wasn't enough sales calls booked in. Why was that? Now we can go on the diagnostic numbers of how many people was I emailing? That's my list size.

What was the open rate? How many of those are opening those emails? And how many people were clicking from that and taking a look at my sales page or my video that explains the offer? And then diagnosing, you know, how many people started the video? How many people watched halfway through? What percentage of people are actually completing it? These for me are diagnostic numbers to understand what's to be fixed. And I have a little trick that I use with my clients. In fact, I was doing this this morning.

I'm working with a client of ours. And I always want to look for the biggest, the lever that's going to have the biggest impact on their business. So looking through this entire campaign, they've got this $1,000 offer, 997.

And we were looking for the biggest lever. And the thing you want to look at to have the biggest impact is always going to be the earliest number in the journey of the customer. By earliest number, I mean, open rate's the first number because that's the first thing that somebody does Then they're going to click.

Then they're going to consume whatever's on that page. Let's say it's start watching the video. Then it's complete watching the video.

Then it's click to apply for a call. Then it's turn up to the call. Then it's buy from the call.

Like that's the seven steps. And let's say it was a VSL, book a call kind of funnel offer. So a lot of people will go, oh, well, my conversion rate on the sales call is not 20%.

I want it to be 20%. And they'll start fixing it at that point. And really that's not the thing that's going to have the biggest impact on the whole funnel.

The earlier, the earlier in that journey, the number you fix and improve is the more people are going to be flooded through to the rest of it. So if we fix and improve the number of people opening the email, that means there's more people have the opportunity to click, which means there's more of those people have the opportunity to start the video, which means more of them have the opportunity to finish the video, to click apply, to show up and to buy. Whereas most people get so obsessive, like this end number needs to be improved.

When actually, if you're looking for making the biggest impact on the number, your North Star, I want 10K a month number, start with the earliest piece of data first, as long as it is underperforming. Don't obviously try and move something to an unreasonable amount. Like if your open rate's already 102%, then don't be tinkering with that.

Yeah, this is great because, and I'm really bad at looking at the numbers myself, but it's like using these as a diagnostic tool just means that you're working on the right things to fix the problem. And I think we can always assume and try different things without even looking at the numbers, because maybe like me, you're not a fan of numbers. So I think it's really important to, yeah, to do this and be sure which ones are the things you need to sort out.

Yeah. I think it also usually comes down to intuition. You go, oh, I didn't make as many sales last month.

So this month, instead of sales calls, I'm going to do a webinar. Because, and we go, hang on, is it the conversion mechanism, which is basically sales call versus webinar, is that where the problem is? Because you can switch that thing out and make it worse potentially. You might make it better.

You might make it the same. If you've still got the same number of people opening, clicking, and all that sort of stuff. I think it's easy to go, oh, well, everyone's doing a challenge.

So everyone's like, oh, that's the reason my thing is not making me a gazillion dollars is I need to do a challenge. And you go, no, a challenge is just a product launch. It's just a webinar.

It's just a different way of presenting the same thing. Look at what the actual number is. That's the problem and fix that.

Yeah, yeah. And I am someone who has done that in the past, for sure. Me too.

I just instantly think, oh, I'll just, I'll try a webinar. I'll try a masterclass. I'll try this.

I'll try that. But yeah, when you look at the numbers, it's really further on down the line rather than the actual outcome. Yeah, it is.

It is. So that's what I'm going to think about today, isn't it? We want to think about what is that North Star number? Only do the work that really gets you to that number, because that's the number that really matters. And then look at these other numbers as diagnostic numbers.

My favorite diagnostic number to look at how well your email marketing is performing, for example, is how much are you earning from each subscriber each month? I call it earning per subscriber per month. EPSPM. Not very catchy.

Earning per subscriber per month. It's a better name. Right? Earning per subscriber per month.

But that is just grabbing. So you made $1,000 last month and you had 1,000 people on your email list. Then each person on your email list is worth $1,000.

The aim of the game really is to increase how much people on your email list are worth. That's a really good diagnostic number to be going after. Yeah, for sure.

I love it. I love it. Cool.

Now it's time for this week's subject line of the week. Oh, it's yours. You do this one.

Okay. Okay. I nearly said this a minute ago.

I can see why you nearly said this. Yeah. So my subject line was I'm guilty of this.

Okay. That's good. That's good.

That's got so much intrigue, what you're guilty of, and you're supposed to be our hero, our guru, our teacher, our wise person. You're saying that you're guilty of a thing. And what was the email about? So this was in a promotion for a challenge.

There we go. Called the promo post challenge. And it was all about how you should be actually putting out offers on your social media.

And I was talking about how we can often get stuck in fancy marketing and not focus enough on sales because it's kind of a bit scary to put out these offers. And I was just saying that I've been guilty of this. And that there are ways to actually do it in a fun way, a way that feels more comfortable.

And that's what the challenge was all about. So yeah. I love it.

I love it. I am guilty of this. So, so good.

So good. So good. If you're thinking, hey, all this sounds great, but I'd really like your help to come and do this with me, then definitely check out our Email Hero Blueprint program where we do just that.

You can go and find out all the information about it at emailheroblueprint.com emailheroblueprint.com where we show you exactly our entire methodology for plugging in your email marketing and really getting to those goals that you want to achieve. See you then. Yes, that, that would be me.

Which means it's the end of the show already. Holy crap. Look, we make this show every week for you for free.

So make sure you hit subscribe on your podcast player so you don't miss the next episode. And we will speak to you next Email Marketing Wednesday.