What happens when an educator refuses to treat students like data points?

In Part 2 of this powerful conversation, Mark speaks with educator, researcher, and author Dr. Joey Weisler about trauma, resilience, and what it really means to show up for students.

Joey shares his deeply personal journey—from witnessing the aftermath of the Parkland school tragedy to navigating a difficult first year of teaching that ultimately led to his dismissal. What initially felt like failure became the turning point that shaped his mission: to build classrooms centered on connection, presence, and emotional engagement.

Today, Joey teaches literature and composition at the college level while developing his HEART Framework, a model focused on creating learning environments where students feel seen, heard, and empowered.

This episode explores how trauma, compassion, and purposeful teaching can reshape education—and why learning should never be the result of compliance.

In This Episode

Mark and Joey discuss:

1. Joey’s experience teaching near the Parkland tragedy and how it shaped his understanding of student trauma
2. Why many schools struggle to address emotional realities in the classroom
3. The moment Joey was unexpectedly dismissed from his first teaching job—and why it became the best and worst day of his career
4. How storytelling and literature can help students process emotions and life decisions
5. Why Joey arranges his classrooms in a circle to create presence and community
6. The concept of “cognitive presence” vs. cognitive overload
7. Why showing up and caring may be the most important thing a teacher can do
8. How educators can balance academic expectations with emotional development
9. Joey’s upcoming book on the HEART Framework

Key Takeaways

1. Students remember how teachers make them feel more than what they teach.
2. Trauma affects learning—even when it’s not visible.
3. Presence and care often matter more than instructional techniques.
4. Classrooms that allow students to explore meaning and identity create deeper engagement.
5. Education systems focused solely on data risk losing the humanity of learning.

Memorable Quotes

“Learning should not be a result of compliance.”

“When you teach to the heart instead of just the brain, everything changes.”

“Students don’t remember every lesson—but they remember the teachers who cared.”

“Instead of cognitive overload, we need cognitive presence.”

About Dr. Joey Weisler

Dr. Joey Weisler is an educator, researcher, and writer focused on trauma-informed teaching and emotionally engaged learning environments. He teaches literature and composition at the college level and hosts the podcast Classroom Narratives: Healing & Education.

He is currently developing the HEART Framework, a model designed to help educators create classrooms centered on connection, presence, and meaningful learning.

Resources & Links

Listen to Part 1 here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rising-through-the-unknown-advocacy-trust-and/id1775740636?i=1000748265220

Listen to my interview on Joey's podcast, Classroom Narratives: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rising-through-the-unknown-advocacy-trust-and/id1775740636?i=1000748265220

🌐 Website

josephweisler.com

🎬 The Throne in the Classroom (Short Film & Trailer)

🎧 Joey’s Podcast

Classroom Narratives: Healing & Education

📘 Resources Available on Joey’s Website

1. 10 Steps to Trauma-Informed Teaching
2. 
   
3. Emotionally Equipped Educator Conflict Styles Quiz
4. 
   
5. HEART Framework (forthcoming book)

Connect with Mark

🎙️ Podcast: SER: No Parent Left Behind!

Website: specialedrising.com

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share it with a fellow educator or parent, and leave a review to help more people discover the show.

Okay, let's just pivot to what you're doing now and then what you experienced informed what you're doing now because you work with, well, I'll let you explain what you do. Tell us a little bit and then we'll try to make those connections.

Sure, thank you for that Mark.

So the best day and the worst day of my life all happened on the same day and for the same purpose. I think about this all the time, like even when I'm tying my shoes or making my toast, I always think about this moment because it left such a deep rooted scar into who I became as a career-based professional in education.

It was December 12th. It was a Thursday. We're not even at Christmas break yet. We still have another week until Christmas. The last day of school for that holiday was December 20th. It's not even Friday. It's only Thursday. I teach the day as normal.

Mm-hmm.

And after sixth period, not even, school ends at 315. I get a call to my classroom at 313 from the secretary. And of course my classroom is in chaos the whole day as it always was. We saw second, fourth and sixth period that day. And fourth was like the reason I went home and cried every night. And sixth period was just always, sweet kids, bad management. So I'm getting everything together for the end of the day, putting this over here, that over there. And then my phone rings and the secretary says,

When the bell rings in 90 seconds, the principal wants to speak with you. Okay, what else is new? Just had my observation about two weeks ago. Wasn't a great observation, but it worked. It was a reminder when I got that observation as to, you're a good first year teacher, I want you to be great. And he talked about quote unquote, the spring. He's like, okay, spring's around the corner. So at 3.15, I walked downstairs and he hands me my contract.

He says, your probationary is coming up. Your probationary is in January. And this is the time where we can either renew you or dismiss you. And at this time, you will be dismissed. Today was your last day. Go pack up your room. You have till five o'clock. You will not be coming back here again. And all that chaos that had happened during sixth period, whatever that was, to get ready for Friday, none of that mattered.

after that moment. None of the work I did, even waking up with my first thing before even climbing out of bed, checking an email from a parent and responding while still in bed that morning, checking an email from a parent regarding their student's iReady score. None of that mattered. Within eight hours. And I tell you that that was the best and worst moment of my career because first of all, it left a total scar on me. But I'll never forget when he said,

you're not coming back. All of a sudden, all the weight I was carrying, the feelings of depletion, just not even wanting to continue in this job anymore for any reason that I had been feeling for three months, it just evaporated right there in his office. I felt like I was unshackled. I felt so free and liberated from him telling me that. It was almost like, not to sound religious and tacky, but it was like a moment of rebirth.

Yeah.

when he asked me to resign. So I went back up. Yeah.

I understand what you mean. understand what you mean.

And two, it's the idea that you, it's always a feels like a personal insult when you're fired or released or not accepted into something, right? But if you have the ability to look beyond and say, okay, well, this is now this door, and literally that door closes and will open eventually if you stick with it, And that's the perseverance. So go ahead, I'm sorry, I just wanted to.

mm-hmm. Yes, of course, absolutely. So my room's

packed up, that was Thursday. And again, we still have Friday. We still have six days until Christmas break. I'm not there. The students get an email, there is a net you have a new teacher. They thought it was a joke. They come on Friday, Mr. Weisler's not there. and they're like, They weren't playing around. So.

that point, my seventh grade counterparts, before I had left, and I think about this all the time as well, that was like the universe say, you have done your deed by being at the school. On December 11th, the day before, my seventh grade counterpart comes into my room, the power of networking. He comes into my room and he hands me a piece of paper. says, you want to make some money? And I said, well, is going to be legal? He says, of course there'll be legal money. He says, this number.

If you call that number, you're going to get the Dean of a night school. Of that night school, ask them to give you my job at that night school, teaching English. He says, I love it. Need to let go of the bandwidth. I want you to have it. Call the Dean and tell them you know me. So I did that that night. I already before I had even was asked to resign on the 12th. I already had an interview set up for that job.

And everybody knew that on Thursday morning. That same morning I was let go. So again, was like the universe is saying, okay, you've got to have an order. Boom, you're done. Don't need this place anymore. So I had that interview and I like to call that my first experience teaching college, but it was so different. It was night school. It was not the 18 year old. And I say this somewhat respectfully in 13th grade at that institution. This was, my goodness, the school.

simple.

Amazing. Amazing.

Yeah.

was an international college for students at the time from all over the world, especially Asia, South America as well, a lot of folks in South America. And they are so established in what they do, like a 60, 60 year old Brazilian lawyer who just wants to learn English and know how to write better in composition. That was my class, 10 students like that. I'm the youngest one in the room.

I'm teaching adults how to do literature and composition. And I was almost, and they wanted it, yeah. And I was like the younger cousin of the room. We just had a blast. It was the best. And when COVID hit, they were expanding. So three months later, we all go into lockdown. Teachers are leaving left and right. They're growing. like, hey, how about a second class in the summer? Like, yeah, absolutely. So I start with them and at the same time.

and they want to be there, which is the best.

Hahaha.

I'm drafting what I have been through at that 2019 school. The drafts to those screenplays called The Throne in the Classroom was developed into a short film, short film, in 2022 and again in 2024. Still room to grow. But it also became the premise to my dissertation. In that same summer, I got a call from a dean in Miami. And he says, oh, you work for the people who run the night school. What a great school that was. At that school,

It was a matriarch-ran school. The mother was the president. The husband, the late husband, was the founder. The daughters were the deans and the provosts. So they're very, it's a ran-by family. And...

Hmm.

Right, that's great.

I had a dean call me from a really good university in And he says, if you know that family and you work for them based upon your resume, I'm not calling to give an interview. I'm calling to give you an offer. How many classes do you want to teach for me in the fall? And one led to another, to another, to another. And that's what I've been doing. I have been working as an adjunct part-time teaching composition and literature since 2020. And I could even say now that I have found my way up to New York City doing that, I have been living my best life. And what I do in my classrooms,

Well.

Hmm.

is focus on what I'm actually now doing in scholarship. That ways to use the classroom.

for inviting and purposeful pedagogy. And by that I mean, how can you get kids to focus on habits and flexible structure without making them feel compliant? How can you engage them without losing interest? And how can you use language? How can we use stories? How can we use our own content to make students more connected and aware of what's going on around them? And in an English classroom, it's about allowing students to come to their own meanings.

with the material. This is not a science class with all due respect. Love my science educators. I feel like I throw straight at them all the time. This is not a formulaic multiple choice, you know, mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell and y equals n x plus b sort of class. This is, here's the story.

You

And what do you think about it as a way to, not like bibliotherapy, which I'm not qualified to do, but bibliotherapy as in how can you look at the choices people make in stories to determine what you do in your own life? What does that lead you to do?

Hmm,

very cool. Wow. What a great perspective. Did you develop this or is this something that you were kind of like interested in and brought to the classroom yourself?

That I would definitely say with no shadow of a doubt that because of the tragedy and because of losing my friend to suicide, that made me feel committed to a research focus. So to answer your question from earlier and to bring that back, I don't think those two events, of course they've exacerbated and they gave me concrete rationale as to why I work the way that I do in the classroom.

Mm-hmm.

But I think with that, my words still operated the same. What they did do those two moments, and now the third moment, being my resignation from that school, is almost go out on a limb to prove that leadership wrong in terms of their methods and show them why inviting emotion into a classroom helps students grow academically and show that the correlation between academic and emotional writing really does exist.

It makes so much sense to me. mean, I hear you. is it, was that the reason they let you go? Because you were too connected to the human being, right? Yeah.

That's exactly why they let me go. Exactly. Yeah. They said,

I asked them, didn't this work? And the principal looked at me stone cold. He says, I will not give you a reason. Never got it from him. But then there was a security guard helped me clean up. Yeah. He cleaned, a security guard was helping me clean out my room about an hour later. And I asked him because he was a really, really nice guy. Like he said to me, he looked at me he says, I'm so sad to see you go. Your students really loved you.

All.

cop out.

And so I asked him the question, I said, why am I leaving? And he says, I heard it wasn't working out because this was a very data driven school and in their defense, I was not able to produce the data for my eighth grade class that inviting emotion into their eighth grade ELA standards was effective for their learning. Bottom line to that.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Well, it just, it basically collided, right? And just then you couldn't produce what they wanted you to produce and right? mean, maybe you got it. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I mean, to the detriment of the students and to your benefit because you were able to grow and develop this further and now you're helping more and more people and maybe at a better, I mean, I don't even know what.

Exactly. It collided and then it collapsed. Yeah.

I think we need to reach kids young, right? And this kind of approach needs to happen earlier on. But with what's happening in our country, you know, it's like less and less, they don't want the emotion, they don't want you to talk about feelings and all that kind of stuff in the classroom. And it's, they just want to make robots out of people. I don't know what it is. I really don't know what the intention is. And How do you go about dealing with trauma in your class when you're through your writing?

Do you do that? Because that's part of your focus. Is that true? Is that? Yeah. ⁓

Yeah. Yes. I'm sorry, you're talking about my

personal writing or the writing that students give me?

Let's talk about your teaching and then I want to get into a little bit about your writing because you're working on your heart framework and I also want to talk about how play creates safety and connection for your students.

Yes.

I

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha.

when they were in high school and I was still living locally, used to call what I call these Wessler alumni coffee days where I would go to their local Starbucks and just sit there like an office hour and if they wanted to come in and say hello they could do that and yes and there was one time in 2023 so they must have been juniors maybe it 21 with their sophomores anyways they were in high school and a couple of them came in from that class.

These are your former students? Wow.

And they looked at me like, can we just talk about what happened that day? Like, okay. So I literally gave them the same story that I just told you. Cause like the one thing I was told not to do when I left was to not tell the students about it. So of course, now that they're in high school, it's like, it's untouchable. So of course I'm gonna tell them everything. And what they told me after I shared that with them, they said to me, we want you to know that the day...

Mm-hmm, of course.

We walked into class that very next day and saw that when the principal came in and said that you will no longer be our teacher, they said, we want you to know that we celebrated. Not like Alphaba, because we were like, good news, the witch is dead. They said, we celebrated the fact that you were no longer confined to being our teacher.

Mm-hmm.

Wow, that's incredible. That kind of insight at that stage in their life and to lose the person that they cared so much about and connected with, but to be happy for you, that's amazing. How did that make you feel? That had to be like mind blowing. Yeah.

Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's my quote. Yeah. It was very touching. Especially

because they didn't think they even liked me to begin with. They're like, well, you could have treated me a little bit nicer. But of course, they're 14 and don't know much. Their brains are not fully developed. So anyway, so that happened. Now at this point.

Hahaha!

Right, right.

What I even talk about in my book is setting a framework for students. When students walk into my class now, they're doing this tomorrow at the Fashion Institute, Mark and I have a connection to FIT, go FIT. When they walk in tomorrow, they will know by 9, 10, that I want every desk in that room into a circle. They will sit in that circle. And the paradox is that

Yes.

The one mandated structure, which is the circle, allows everything else in the classroom to be flexible. The way we communicate, the way we share, what we want to share, all that becomes flexible because of how the circle is laid out, where students can see each other, they can validate each other, the presence factor is there.

Mm-hmm.

I was just

about to say, the presence. Yeah.

Yep, it's all about

the presence. And my presence as well. I'm seated in the circle right next to them. I'm sandwiched in between two students. I'm relaxing on my right and I'm just in the circle chatting with all of them for three hours that we're together. And once those options are there, flexibility expands into how students want to engage and with their engagement. I allow them in my class to engage either orally,

where they can do their work in writing so they can be part of the conversation. And that counts. If sometimes they feel like they have to perform by doing that, they don't have to, they can just go away and write it. But when it comes to flexibility, there is some play involved, play as in how we actually get students.

involved in your own learning, getting up, moving around. There's going to be an activity next Friday for this class that meets once a week. Next Friday, they're going to be walking around and pinning clothespins on each other. There's a labeling activity behind that. But it's forcing them, well, I hate the word force. It's inviting them to get up and move around and engage with us. But what the circle does is that it establishes this premise that all are invited, none are mandated.

be part of the community. Everybody's invited. They can speak on their own terms and that's a flexible portion of that. Everybody's invited. So to answer your question mark through that very long-winded explanation, what do we do now when it comes to trauma? I've let them know that I'm present. I'm present. The classroom is present. We are all here. All are invited. What the students choose to do with that entire structure.

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

What I understand

Yeah.

now is that I don't internalize the choices that students make about my class. And that's how I'll answer that. If they want it to be transactional, they can. That's their choice. If they want it to be an emotional investment of some kind, that's also a choice. And I'll be present for them when that happens. But I know that as long as I set the structure and put the standards in place, then everything else is the self-governance of those who are learning.

Yeah, I find that to be the benefit of age too, you know, growing up maturity, you know, you really do remove yourself from the product in a sense, because you are now the facilitator and yeah, these are individual human beings with their own ability to make choices. And that's what you want them to do, Do you find that the circle opens people up who might necessarily be a little shut down in time or just

to it.

or maybe they have their way they can communicate through writing or something like that and so they stick to that or do find that there's oftentimes a growth from that experience?

Funny enough,

I don't notice that, but they do.

Sometimes when we have our mid semester and final conferences, I have had students say, Dr. White said, did you notice that you got so and so to speak? I haven't heard them talk all semester. You made that happen. I'm like, I did? No. I'm like, no. They made it happen for themselves. Again, accountability and choice. So I think what the circle does is that again, it poses the invitation and it works in all different ways as well. And when it comes to writing, I mean, we're doing Catherine Stockett's The Help this week in class.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And in two weeks from now, we're going to be looking at L.A. Buzell's Holocaust Night. Different topics have different connections for students and however they want to present that is again on their own accountability.

on the table, yeah. How do you propose for overwhelmed educators to work in a similar way that you do or to be able to find their way through to at least be able to have the opportunity to do some of the work like you do and find that humanity in their students?

I'm gonna have to come back and give an addendum to my response here in a month. I'm finishing up with my book. Right now I'm literally researching that answer as we speak. what I can tell you from here, yes, what I can say to start with is that it really comes into showing care, showing care and presence. One thing I just looked up this morning from...

Okay.

Okay, fantastic. Well, you'll have to come back and give that answer then. Fully revised it.

Lisa Forbes is her name and also Peter forgot his last name, but he's also a great his name's right here in front of me He's a great scholar people want to learn more about him as well Peter Parker Palmer not Peter Parker Palmer another wonderful educator what they say is that showing Presence and of course Rita Pearson's every child needs a champion Ted Talk talks about this as well

Just showing your presence will come before so much. I can tell you that whenever I get high reviews, it's rarely, not never, rarely students like, I got so much from that, that, that, that, that. They don't remember the day to day. What they do recall is that I showed up and I cared. I cared that they were there.

This doesn't matter, right? None of what I'm doing actually matters. And I'll never forget their answer. They said to me, well, if you mean teaching iambic pentameter for Shakespeare to teach them how to write a poem or to teach them the raven using Edgar Allen Poe, you're right. That doesn't matter. What does matter is that there was a tragedy that had happened seven months ago, almost eight, and still.

You show up for them every single day and you're present. You care enough about them to make that happen. And they said in five years, they will remember that. And they are right. It has now been eight years. And for the few that I'm still in touch with, that's what they say.

Yeah, because that's what we do walk away with. remember our teachers. We remember those that we liked that were nice to us and those that were maybe not so nice to us. But the actual subject matter. Yeah, some of these things stick with us. But the overall impression we get about the person, the human before us. And that's I feel has been missing from schools for forever. Do you have in a kind of a final message, do you have.

We could talk for five more hours for sure. And we'll have to come back because there's so much more to talk about and go deeper into. Yeah, no, absolutely. Because I'd love to go deeper into your new book and you'll be further into it as well with some more insights probably. But as far as the future of the system and academics,

Please, I'd love to have an invite for part two.

Is there any chance, is there any hope that we have that we can bring this humanity and challenge our students to open up to their emotions and their feelings and being able to connect? Because what you're doing is making school a place where we're developing the full rounded person as opposed to just.

I understand this fact and that fact and this equation, et cetera. Which then also leads to that isolation and that shut down, all those things, because now we're really separating ourselves by academic performance, I'm not as good as that person. And then we get into the social spheres of I'm not as good looking or I'm not as popular on this and that. it's even worse now. I don't even know all the things that kids.

talk to each other about now with social media, how they go at each other, all the stress levels. The opportunity is not there for us to be able to explore who we are at that stage and be appreciated and be seen. Do you have a message about that?

Absolutely. And I think you've already touched on it quite a bit, Mark, where in terms of, I'll mention this. When I was in my first year teaching, my kindergarten teacher was in town from Rhode Island, we're in Florida. She came down to Florida to visit us, and same as I did, she sat in the Starbucks, she said on Facebook, hey, anyone wants to come and meet me for coffee, I'll be here.

I went back and I told her how horrible my first year of teaching was and I was angry because like you made me want to love this job. I have been wanting to become a teacher since kindergarten. What am I not doing? And she said, I have a secret for you. She said, every day I walked into my classroom, I knew I was going to have fun.

She says, do you feel like you're having fun? I said, God, no, I wish I could quit tomorrow and become, I actually had a student that came to me and said, Mr. Weisle, I want to become a teacher when I grow up. What do you suggest? And I said, go into Weisle management instead. You'll have a lot more, a much greater fulfilling career. And I was not joking around. And I repeated that to my kindergarten teacher. Yeah, yeah. She said, when I walked into class, I taught to your heart. I taught your heart over your brain.

Thank

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's where you were at the time.

This is coming from a veteran educator who was all about play in the classroom. We learned our alphabet sounds. We were up there. We were moving. We were dancing. Five years old. We had like Betty for B, like little stuffed animals that had the different sounds of the alphabet and all these characters that became our friends. She brought play and care into a classroom all the time. She said, when you teach to the heart, not the brain.

your results will completely transform in terms of you'll finally love your job. The problem is that at the school that I was in, in Parkland as well as the charter school, and these are not exclusive isolated scenarios. This is a global phenomenon. I spoke with somebody in India, an educator from India who says, yes, this way over here too. Singapore, same thing all over the globe. Education focuses on compliance through data and standards.

That's where we are failing our children. When we focus on data and logic in a way that dismisses what's going on with the heart, that's where we get everybody in the system to feel jaded. I can tell you, if you would have asked me three years ago, could it get better? We were just creeping out of COVID, I'd say, no, probably not. Because it's all about doing the standards.

I can tell you now that now that I'm starting to really design this heart framework, which is all about ways that we can literally teach to the heart through the sense of cognitive presence.

we can definitely help students more than we think. And by cognitive presence, I just made that up as I'm sitting here speaking with you, Mark, I need to publish that somehow. Cognitive presence is being present for students both through their identities and what they're trying to learn. Instead of giving them cognitive overload, show them cognitive presence. And when you create that environment that is advocating for their success versus punishing them for their failures,

Thank

you'll finally get students to learn the way that we want them to. And educators will find fulfillment in what they're working with.

Mm-hmm. I'm so 1,000 % in agreement because their learning almost becomes a result of that. you're opening them up and they're not seeing the things that are so hard as impossible now, right, because they have a better sense of who they are. All of that.

Yeah, learning

should not be a result of compliance. That's my final message. Do not correlate learning with compliance.

You

Great period on the end of that paragraph. love that. Thank you for being who you are. like you said, you're an open book, but you're just an open soul. I see why people and students would want to come back and talk to you. I want to continue this conversation.

I'd love to come back. can come back on your show. You come back on my show. We'll just keep this going through over time and just see how we're both growing and developing. But I can't be more appreciative and grateful for you being so forthcoming about your experiences in Parkland because I think it's something that people just, you know, unless you've experienced it, you have no idea like with most things, right? But.

Absolutely.

what those students had to cope with afterwards and those kids that tried to canvas and legislate for gun control and gun prevention, violence prevention, who were just ridden through the media and just taken down and torn apart. And I mean, they're kids and what the media did to them. I mean, it's such a society that seems to go against our natural desires for wanting to be good people.

and wanting the best for each other. don't understand it. I don't know why we always take that negative globally, take that negative approach, know, or at least that rise seems to rise to the top a lot of the time. But the work you're doing is amazing and I'm so grateful that you're sharing it. And hopefully one day there'll be a curriculum that people can follow and be able to incorporate what you're there teaching.

I have one more thing. I'm sorry one more thing to close. I'm going to echo former Parkland mayor Christine Hunchowski. She's now a Florida house rep and in June 2020 she said human trauma is not always explored on individual levels.

And that's a claim, but it's also a fact as to why we don't understand people's struggles so closely because we do not see trauma on individual levels. We only see it holistically, how people engage or how people respond. So going to see individual traumas is important to us. And I also add that by looking at individual traumas, you do find that perseverance is a possibility from that. And that's why I my story the way that I do.

we have to look at the individual, right? Because group think doesn't get us anywhere, right? Because we're not talking about the specifics, talking about the generalities of being human. Thanks for being here today and thanks for all your insight and for sharing.

Great to be here,

And was there anything else that you wanted to mention,

thank you so much for these conversations. And people can get in touch with me through my website. It's josephweisler.com, and I'll have Mark add that to the show notes. It's a one-stop shop of all my different materials. What you'll find when you visit the website is that there is the throne in the classroom, two versions of it. One is a five-minute series trailer, which captures quite a bit of the narrative that we spoke about today in terms of...

Hahaha.

All right, we'll keep after you for that.

Thank you for all that. I know people are going to be enriched by all that information and I encourage them to go and your podcast is fantastic. And I know I kind of referred to it before, but I didn't mention it specifically, but it is a great podcast and I encourage people to go there. So we'll have you back here and maybe I'll see you there.

Thank you so much.

Yes, I can't wait. I thought this

is even better than our first conversation. So thank you so much for having me.

I think so

too. And I went back and listened to our first one and I was just so like, okay, that was really, really fascinating And it just got me excited for today. So Dr. Joey Weisler, thank you so much for your time and I'm gonna touch all the best to you.

Thank you for having me. An

honor, Mark. Thank you so much. We'll talk again real soon.

All right, we absolutely will.